JohnnyU
Footballguy
Tell that to Henry Ruggs and Jalen Reagor owners. Oh, but they aren’t even WR2 with their 1st round draft capital.Yeah but they aren't under 26 with 1st round draft capital WR2s
Tell that to Henry Ruggs and Jalen Reagor owners. Oh, but they aren’t even WR2 with their 1st round draft capital.Yeah but they aren't under 26 with 1st round draft capital WR2s
They aren't WR2s for fantasyTell that to Henry Ruggs and Jalen Reagor owners. Oh, but they aren’t even WR2 with their 1st round draft capital.
...and they don’t seem to be much of WR2 for the NFL yet eitherThey aren't WR2s for fantasy
Not sure what your point is? There are more WRs who have real value than TEs. I am pretty sure you agree with that concept....and they don’t seem to be much of WR2 for the NFL yet either
It's entirely possible Chase busts. If he disappoints big his first year he'll keep value, and I'm not sure the ruggs or reagor examples really play out with him. Neither were even in consideration for the FF top overall rookie pick.Not sure what your point is? There are more WRs who have real value than TEs. I am pretty sure you agree with that concept.
Travis Etienne at 1.10 represents quite a tumble in value, as does DeVonta Smith at 1.08.1 QB, but 0.5 points per completion.
Half way through:
1.01. Chase, Ja'Marr CIN WR (R)
1.02 Harris, Najee PIT RB (R)
1.03 Pitts, Kyle ATL TE (R)
1.04 Waddle, Jaylen MIA WR (R)
1.05 Williams, Javonte DEN RB (R)
1.06 Bateman, Rashod BAL WR (R)
1.07 Lawrence, Trevor JAC QB (R)
1.08 Smith, DeVonta PHI WR (R)
1.09. Sermon, Trey SFO RB (R)
1.10 Etienne, Travis JAC RB (R)
1.11 Lance, Trey SFO QB (R)
1.12 Marshall, Terrace CAR WR (R)
2.01 Moore, Elijah NYJ WR (R)
2.02 Carter, Michael NYJ RB (R)
2.03 Moore, Rondale ARI WR (R)
2.04 Rodgers, Amari GBP WR (R)
2.05 Gainwell, Kenneth PHI RB (R)
2.06 Fields, Justin CHI QB (R)
2.07 Wilson, Zach NYJ QB (R)
I am at 12. I am trying to grab a couple extra late first, early 3rd picks. A few nice prospects left.
Yep. Most definitely should be on radars at the first turn of your draft. I wasn’t as familiar with him as I should have been, but I spent yesterday doing some homework. You can trust the draft capital as mentioned and a landing spot that’s sweeter than Yoohoo. Moore can play in the X or the Z comfortably.I’m high on Elijah Moore myself. 34th overall feels like significantly more draft capital than Marshall 59th overall. Good opportunity too
Excellent analysis. Even a few years from now when the shine of their draft capital has worn off, a player like Brandin Cooks is much more valuable than a player like Hunter Henry. My whole point was just WR is more valuable than TE due to the demand for it so Chase has a much lower bar to clear. Pitts pretty much has to be a top 3 TE to justify the pick.-OZ- said:It's entirely possible Chase busts. If he disappoints big his first year he'll keep value, and I'm not sure the ruggs or reagor examples really play out with him. Neither were even in consideration for the FF top overall rookie pick.
But let's assume both chase and Pitts perform very poorly. Chase will probably retain more value. If both are startable their first two years but not elite, I think they both retain ok value but not 1.01 level.
The problem with forecasting Pitts dynasty value is there has never been a TE with quite his hype. I don't think that falls off a cliff within two years (assuming no long term injury or other issues). Most of us know TE usually takes longer to become elite than WR. Of course there may be the FF owner who isn't patient, but I'd rather not bank on that.
1 QB, but 0.5 points per completion.
Half way through:
1.01. Chase, Ja'Marr CIN WR (R)
1.02 Harris, Najee PIT RB (R)
1.03 Pitts, Kyle ATL TE (R)
1.04 Waddle, Jaylen MIA WR (R)
1.05 Williams, Javonte DEN RB (R)
1.06 Bateman, Rashod BAL WR (R)
1.07 Lawrence, Trevor JAC QB (R)
1.08 Smith, DeVonta PHI WR (R)
1.09. Sermon, Trey SFO RB (R)
1.10 Etienne, Travis JAC RB (R)
1.11 Lance, Trey SFO QB (R)
1.12 Marshall, Terrace CAR WR (R)
2.01 Moore, Elijah NYJ WR (R)
2.02 Carter, Michael NYJ RB (R)
2.03 Moore, Rondale ARI WR (R)
2.04 Rodgers, Amari GBP WR (R)
2.05 Gainwell, Kenneth PHI RB (R)
2.06 Fields, Justin CHI QB (R)
2.07 Wilson, Zach NYJ QB (R)
I am at 12. I am trying to grab a couple extra late first, early 3rd picks. A few nice prospects left.
That is just ridiculous.Travis Etienne at 1.10 represents quite a tumble in value, as does DeVonta Smith at 1.08.
Moore should be good, but I think his upside is limited by his size. Drafting at the end of the round should mean you are loaded. My team is. I went for Marshall's upside.Yep. Most definitely should be on radars at the first turn of your draft. I wasn’t as familiar with him as I should have been, but I spent yesterday doing some homework. You can trust the draft capital as mentioned and a landing spot that’s sweeter than Yoohoo. Moore can play in the X or the Z comfortably.
Check out some video, I was sold. I believe he will be leaving his tougher competition for targets and catches behind at Ole Miss. Crowder is not a hindrance, he is not the direction they want to go. You think Mims or Berrios will be more relevant? Not a chance. He will be Zach Wilson’s go to guy.
You will not find a safer pick to make at Turn 1.
Pass on K Toney who has limitations, not much of a route runner, not a burner, more of a project especially with Shepard around. Dial this guy up.
I always like getting different opinions. Can you be more specific when you state “upside limited by size” ?Moore should be good, but I think his upside is limited by his size. Drafting at the end of the round should mean you are loaded. My team is. I went for Marshall's upside.
He is small and will be difficult to get off press coverage with NFL db's. I do like Elijah Moore and don't necessarily shy away due to his size but Terrace Marshall has a better body type for the league. Rashod Bateman isn't going 6th in my league like the mocked version here.I always like getting different opinions. Can you be more specific when you state “upside limited by size” ?
Problems getting off the line isn’t always attached to smaller WRs. If they are shifty and quick enough and / or the team moves them around, they could have no problem getting a release off the line. A good example is Tyreek Hill, or DeVonta Smith in college.He is small and will be difficult to get off press coverage with NFL db's. I do like Elijah Moore and don't necessarily shy away due to his size but Terrace Marshall has a better body type for the league. Rashod Bateman isn't going 6th in my league like the mocked version here.
Fair enough. I’m not spooked. E Moore reminds me of Steve Smith. Not saying he is the next Steve SmithHe is small and will be difficult to get off press coverage with NFL db's. I do like Elijah Moore and don't necessarily shy away due to his size but Terrace Marshall has a better body type for the league. Rashod Bateman isn't going 6th in my league like the mocked version here.
Try now I think it's open now.acarey50 said:League is set so that only franchise owners can see anything
I agree that Marshall has more upside as Elijah is more of a slot WR. I see Elijah's ceiling as a super charged Jarvis Landry/Julian Edelman. That is plenty valuable for fantasy. My one worry is I feel like Mims and Davis are more of the WR that Wilson likes. He loves to chuck the ball down field to let WRs make plays on the ball.Moore should be good, but I think his upside is limited by his size. Drafting at the end of the round should mean you are loaded. My team is. I went for Marshall's upside.
Not a mock. This is my long running dynasty league.He is small and will be difficult to get off press coverage with NFL db's. I do like Elijah Moore and don't necessarily shy away due to his size but Terrace Marshall has a better body type for the league. Rashod Bateman isn't going 6th in my league like the mocked version here.
Others have basically said it for me, but given his size he is going to be in the slot. I think his fantasy upside is WR2. I wouldn't hesitate at 2.3 to draft him though. I would put him in my top 12 in most formats.I always like getting different opinions. Can you be more specific when you state “upside limited by size” ?
Im drafting in two different 1 QB leagues. Both orphans midway through rebuilds. .5 PPR and 1PPR.
Lg 1. 1.3, 2.3, 3.3, 4.3 Needs: RB, TE, WR
Lg 2. 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, 4.5 Needs RB, BPA
Trying to decide between Pitts and ETN in Lg 1
Taking whoever falls to me at 1.5 in the other.
I would be happy with either Moore, Marshall, or Carter after the turn in both drafts. Hoping to avoid Sermon. I think that will continue to be committee nightmare in SFO.
That seems high to me. I'm intrigued by Gainwell if he falls, but I'm not taking him until Nico, Brown, St. Brown, and Freiermuth are off the board.I'm curious about Gainwell. Seems he keeps going around 2.04-2.05 in a lot of these. I think in that range (16-17) in 12 teamers, I'd want all of the QB's and a number of WR's over him.
I think he may steal SOME pass catching downs, but I don't see Gainwell being a big time fantasy contributer.
I'd rather have Toney, St. Brown, Rogers, Collins and maybe Dyami Brown.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Do people have higher expectations for Gainwell? Sure there's always a chance Sanders busts and Gainwell gets more work. But they've got other backs there. I don't see him as having a ton of fantasy upside and think a lot of the WR's in that area are more likely to be an asset.
I like Moore a lot, but I don't love the landing spot. The slot guys that really kill it in fantasy usually still play in 2WR sets out wide, and I feel like Moore's going to be blocked there with 2 athletic big WRs on the outside.I agree that Marshall has more upside as Elijah is more of a slot WR. I see Elijah's ceiling as a super charged Jarvis Landry/Julian Edelman. That is plenty valuable for fantasy. My one worry is I feel like Mims and Davis are more of the WR that Wilson likes. He loves to chuck the ball down field to let WRs make plays on the ball.
No player has fallen further in recent memory. From everything I have read, the only way he will be an asset is if Philly lines him up a at receiver. He may spell Sanders, but for all intents and purposes he is a Sanders handcuff.I'm curious about Gainwell. Seems he keeps going around 2.04-2.05 in a lot of these. I think in that range (16-17) in 12 teamers, I'd want all of the QB's and a number of WR's over him.
I think he may steal SOME pass catching downs, but I don't see Gainwell being a big time fantasy contributer.
I'd rather have Toney, St. Brown, Rogers, Collins and maybe Dyami Brown.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Do people have higher expectations for Gainwell? Sure there's always a chance Sanders busts and Gainwell gets more work. But they've got other backs there. I don't see him as having a ton of fantasy upside and think a lot of the WR's in that area are more likely to be an asset.
To start, you are probably right. If he's legit though, he can probably work his way into that role. Davis basically has a 2 year deal and while I am still high on Mims, he hasn't proven much yet.I like Moore a lot, but I don't love the landing spot. The slot guys that really kill it in fantasy usually still play in 2WR sets out wide, and I feel like Moore's going to be blocked there with 2 athletic big WRs on the outside.
From all I have read and heard on podcasts is that he is a priority and that he is versatile enough to play where he is most effective. He will be lined up all over the formation. 25% of his snaps last year were at out wide.I like Moore a lot, but I don't love the landing spot. The slot guys that really kill it in fantasy usually still play in 2WR sets out wide, and I feel like Moore's going to be blocked there with 2 athletic big WRs on the outside.
He is moving up my draft list. I think he was the pick where you took him. If he is talented enough Lamar will find him. I hope he doesn’t fade away in Baltimore.I'm in the middle of a 12 team PPR best ball SF dynasty rookie draft. Here are the result so far:
1.1 Lawrence
1.2 Harris
1.3 Fields
1.4 Chase
1.5 Lance
1.6 Pitts
1.7 Etienne
1.8 Wilson
1.9 Jones
1.10 Javonte Williams
1.11 DeVonta Smith
1.12 Waddle
2.1 E. Moore
2.2 Bateman (my pick)
2.3 OTC
Man I REALLY struggled with taking Bateman. Loved him until Lamar was his QB. I hope this turns out like AJB a few years ago, I remember many were down on him after going to Tennessee.
I certainly don't think he can't play outside the slot, and I'm generally higher on smaller WRs than consensus. I just am not as optimistic he's going to get a high snap share unless the jets run 3-wide more than expected. Guys shaped like Davis and Mims give a lot of benefits to the offense outside of just receiving, such as being better run blockers. That gives them an inherent edge being the guys in 2wr sets.From all I have read and heard on podcasts is that he is a priority and that he is versatile enough to play where he is most effective. He will be lined up all over the formation. 25% of his snaps last year were at out wide.
KC has proven wideouts come in all shapes and sizes. He can’t be labeled strictly as a slot WR.
Draft capital says a lot here. Jets did not draft EM at 34 to play second fiddle behind Crowder and Mims, the latter who was drafted at 59 last year. Crowder is a cut candidate after this year and does not fit into their future plans. Jets want to get younger. People will say Mims is WR1 and more of a factor. while Moore will be nothing more than a WR2. I hope this thinking continues as I will be looking to draft him late 1st rd. in a start 1 QB dynasty.
Can’t disagree with much here. Will be an interesting situation to watch. I really like Mims as he is rostered on 1 of my teams. I think EM is special and will become a top 24 type WR during year 2. Predicting 90 targets this year. I can see him and Wilson getting together early and often.I certainly don't think he can't play outside the slot, and I'm generally higher on smaller WRs than consensus. I just am not as optimistic he's going to get a high snap share unless the jets run 3-wide more than expected. Guys shaped like Davis and Mims give a lot of benefits to the offense outside of just receiving, such as being better run blockers. That gives them an inherent edge being the guys in 2wr sets.
I think it's really likely Crowder is released before the season starts. If he isn't, it probably means Moore is not impressing the staff. They have 10 million reasons to give Moore that job and release Crowder.
More than a quibble. Shanahan well known for assigning multiple RBs into specific roles like 3rd down, goal line, speed, blocking, receiving. I want no part of that mess. I can see Sermon carving out a role of 10 touches a game. You can bet Kyle is going to keep a full stable of backs.There is one quibble with Sermon. He is entering a heck of a crowded backfield with guys who, when healthy, have produced at a high level. Mostert rushed for over 200 and scored 4 TDs in the NFCCG not so long ago. He was killing it last year until his knee injury.
Waldman said to watch out Sermon if he goes to SF because they use their backs like disposable golf clubs. Said you might see his floor there. His words. Be wary. It was one example he gave, but it was pretty definitive to pick one out of thirty-two and say, "here's where a guy can go and get swallowed up."
Be very wary. Marshall and Bateman are likely surefire starters from Day One.
Yeah, I also get Waldman and he's got him rated really highly still. Must have changed his mind and likes the landing spot, actually. But you're right. Shanahan, no more than two years ago, had Wilson as his dedicated goal line back taking quality chances away inside the twenty from Breida and Mostert until Wilson got hurt.More than a quibble. Shanahan well known for assigning multiple RBs into specific roles like 3rd down, goal line, speed, blocking, receiving. I want no part of that mess. I can see Sermon carving out a role of 10 touches a game. You can bet Kyle is going to keep a full stable of backs.
I have him in the same tier as Chuba, Stevenson, J Palmer, Dy Brown, Nico, Eskridge, Freiermuth, and Mac. Non-IDP that puts 19 firmly in front of him and I'd rather have Chuba regardless of format. The line gets more blurry across other positions though.I'm curious about Gainwell. Seems he keeps going around 2.04-2.05 in a lot of these. I think in that range (16-17) in 12 teamers, I'd want all of the QB's and a number of WR's over him.
I think he may steal SOME pass catching downs, but I don't see Gainwell being a big time fantasy contributer.
I'd rather have Toney, St. Brown, Rogers, Collins and maybe Dyami Brown.
Am I thinking about this wrong? Do people have higher expectations for Gainwell? Sure there's always a chance Sanders busts and Gainwell gets more work. But they've got other backs there. I don't see him as having a ton of fantasy upside and think a lot of the WR's in that area are more likely to be an asset.
I get what you're saying and there are unknowns littered throughout this offense, but it's quite possible the 4 best weapons are Zach Wilson and 3 WR's...by quite a bit. If this offense hits and Moore's on the plus side of his range then I'm not worried about volume in this situation - he'll get it.I like Moore a lot, but I don't love the landing spot. The slot guys that really kill it in fantasy usually still play in 2WR sets out wide, and I feel like Moore's going to be blocked there with 2 athletic big WRs on the outside.
My immediate thought was Kelvin Harmon. What a fall that wasNo player has fallen further in recent memory. From everything I have read, the only way he will be an asset is if Philly lines him up a at receiver. He may spell Sanders, but for all intents and purposes he is a Sanders handcuff.
Don't forget Butler....My immediate thought was Kelvin Harmon. What a fall that was
......or Arcega-Whiteside and Anthony Miller hasn’t really broke out.Don't forget Butler....
Generational talent at TE. Weak talent at the TE spot on your roster. Seems like a match made in heaven, no? I wouldn't expect Pitts to be Kelce from the get-go, but after a year or so you'll have that position locked down for a long time.12 team, 2QB league:
1. Lawrence
2. Lance
3. Jones (guy is a Pats fan)
4. Fields
I'm up with 1.05 (then 2.04) and I've narrowed it down to Wilson, Chase, Harris, and Pitts. I'm a little thin at QB cause Lock is my 3rd QB currently, but my TE situation is one of the worst.. RB and WR is passable, though I have no true stud at either.
A couple more Zealots PPR IDP drafts:Zealots PPR IDP draft - 53 man rosters - In progress