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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (2 Viewers)

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Yeah, that isn't how it works. Part of the reason Durant struggled so much was because of the Boston defense as a team. To think that Tatum wouldn't have had issues is not realistic. Durant probably would have played better against a much weaker Brooklyn defense. 

Pretty sure that series ends in 4 or 5 games either way. 
Could not agree with you any more. 

Assuming both guys play exactly the same way if they swap teams has to be one of the dumbest opinions I have seen here in some time.  The Nets stink defensively, but Durant wouldn't play any better against them than he did against the Celtics really good D?  LOL, we are seeing some major homer talk here. 

 
Flip flopping what each player scored (ie put Tatum on the Nets and Durant on the Celts but keep their point titles), the games would have ended up:

G1: BRK 122-107
G2: BOS 122-99
G3: BRK 136-86
G4: BOS 126-102

Who knows what would actually have happened, but IMO it would not have been anywhere near a BOS sweep and could have gone 6 or 7 games with each side have a chance to win the series. 
Pretty sure it doesn't work that way.

 
I'm sorry, but availability matters.

Durant simply isn't available often enough to let his superior shooting overcome Tatum's overall impact over the entire season and postseason.

Plus, all indications/trends/logic points to Tatum being better next year than this past year AND Durant being worse.

You guys are stuck in 2019 if you honestly think Durant is a more valuable NBA player than Tatum.

In almost every single possible measuring stick, Tatum was better than Durant LAST season. In what world is Durant going to beat Father Time? That dude is undefeated and he's got KD in his crosshairs.

 
I mean, that's not true.
Yes, it is.  Tatum was All-NBA 1st team. Durant was not (and hasn't been since 2018, yet some still think he is the best player in the league :lol:  ).  Like has been said, Durant's injury history and lack of availability take away some of his overall value. 

 
I'm sorry, but availability matters.

Durant simply isn't available often enough to let his superior shooting overcome Tatum's overall impact over the entire season and postseason.

Plus, all indications/trends/logic points to Tatum being better next year than this past year AND Durant being worse.

You guys are stuck in 2019 if you honestly think Durant is a more valuable NBA player than Tatum.

In almost every single possible measuring stick, Tatum was better than Durant LAST season. In what world is Durant going to beat Father Time? That dude is undefeated and he's got KD in his crosshairs.


Agree with the Father Time thing but if I'm looking to win now, I trade for Durant.  I'm not sure Tatum gets you a championship in the next two years.  

 
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Yes, it is.  Tatum was All-NBA 1st team. Durant was not (and hasn't been since 2018, yet some still think he is the best player in the league :lol:  ).  Like has been said, Durant's injury history and lack of availability take away some of his overall value. 
That's not a measuring stick, it's a popularity contest. One which the NBAPA is trying to remove from max contract provisions in the next CBA

 
I'm sorry, but availability matters.

Durant simply isn't available often enough to let his superior shooting overcome Tatum's overall impact over the entire season and postseason.

Plus, all indications/trends/logic points to Tatum being better next year than this past year AND Durant being worse.

You guys are stuck in 2019 if you honestly think Durant is a more valuable NBA player than Tatum.

In almost every single possible measuring stick, Tatum was better than Durant LAST season. In what world is Durant going to beat Father Time? That dude is undefeated and he's got KD in his crosshairs.
it comes down to whether you think you can build a title team around Tatum eventually, or whether it’s worth having Durant now and being a contender instantly. I don’t see the current celtics getting back to the finals. 

 
That's not a measuring stick, it's a popularity contest. One which the NBAPA is trying to remove from max contract provisions in the next CBA
I get this, but Durant's lack of durability cannot be dismissed or overlooked.  He hasn't been durable during what should have been the physical peak of his career.  Is it reasonable to think that he suddenly going to become durable in his mid to late 30s? 

 
I get this, but Durant's lack of durability cannot be dismissed or overlooked.  He hasn't been durable during what should have been the physical peak of his career.  Is it reasonable to think that he suddenly going to become durable in his mid to late 30s? 
He has been injured but he seems to manage it and be ready for the post season.  I would rather have a guy who competes when the chips are down.  One that will risk greater injury for a championship, like he did in 2019, than a guy who is going to be grabbing at a dubious shoulder injury whenever he turns the ball over.

If you make the move for KD you aren't making it for the back end of his contract, you are making it to win a ring in the next year or two, although I think his game will age nicely.

 
I get this, but Durant's lack of durability cannot be dismissed or overlooked.  He hasn't been durable during what should have been the physical peak of his career.  Is it reasonable to think that he suddenly going to become durable in his mid to late 30s? 
Tatum played in 100 games this season. Durant played in 59. How much extra value did KD have in those other 41 games? Yes, KD is a more consistent, efficient shooter and scorer . . . when he is available. As you indicated, is he going to get healthy and become more available as he gets older?

 
Raise your hand if you would like your favorite franchise to pay Lillard $58.5 million in 2025-6 and $63.2 million in 2026-7.
 
It's not my money, so sure.  He'd fit right in on the Bucks and almost guarantee another title.

- Jrue Holliday

- Damian Lillard

- Kris Middleton

- Giannis

- Brook Lopez

- Bobby Portis, Connaughton and Grayson Allen coming off the bench. 

I mean, c'mon.

 
It's not my money, so sure.  He'd fit right in on the Bucks and almost guarantee another title.

- Jrue Holliday

- Damian Lillard

- Kris Middleton

- Giannis

- Brook Lopez

- Bobby Portis, Connaughton and Grayson Allen coming off the bench. 

I mean, c'mon.
In 2027?
 

 
it comes down to whether you think you can build a title team around Tatum eventually, or whether it’s worth having Durant now and being a contender instantly. I don’t see the current celtics getting back to the finals. 
Contender instantly?  I would think getting to the finals, having the whole team back with potential continued growth for your two best players and adding Brogdon and Galinari pretty much puts you right in the thick of contending status.

 
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If you make the move for KD you aren't making it for the back end of his contract, you are making it to win a ring in the next year or two, although I think his game will age nicely.
Exactly. Or, alternatively, you can keep the guy who wings the ball out of bounds 15 times in a finals game and then turns around and whines to the ref about it. Tough call. 

 
I don’t like to dog a stud like Durant but outside of winning with the Warriors he has not taken a team to a title…it seems like that is getting overlooked in this discussion…he is not LeBron who has done it with three teams so thinking adding him to the C’s almost guarantees a title seems like faulty logic.

 
I think two things can both be true: (1) Durant is better than Tatum, and (2) it'd be nuts to trade Tatum for Durant given Durant's age, injury history, and drama.

 
I don’t like to dog a stud like Durant but outside of winning with the Warriors he has not taken a team to a title…it seems like that is getting overlooked in this discussion…he is not LeBron who has done it with three teams so thinking adding him to the C’s almost guarantees a title seems like faulty logic.
He went to the finals with Oklahoma City.

 
I don’t like to dog a stud like Durant but outside of winning with the Warriors he has not taken a team to a title…it seems like that is getting overlooked in this discussion…he is not LeBron who has done it with three teams so thinking adding him to the C’s almost guarantees a title seems like faulty logic.
The man has two finals MVPs lol. The grasping at straws to discount every accomplishment legends like Lebron and Durant have achieved is one of the worst aspects of the social media era.  

 
The man has two finals MVPs lol. The grasping at straws to discount every accomplishment legends like Lebron and Durant have achieved is one of the worst aspects of the social media era.  
Agree. Appreciate that you get to witness greatness in your short time here.

 
Contender instantly?  I would think getting to the finals, having the whole team back with potential continued growth for your two best players and adding Brogdon and Galinari pretty much puts you right in the thick of contending status.
Not if they let KD go to the Heat.  And I expect the Sixers and Bucks to be better this year too. 

 
The man has two finals MVPs lol. The grasping at straws to discount every accomplishment legends like Lebron and Durant have achieved is one of the worst aspects of the social media era.  
He has two finals MVPs, but that team might have won both of those titles without him. Doesn't exactly fit the category of 'single-handedly leading your team to a title'.

 
He has two finals MVPs, but that team might have won both of those titles without him. Doesn't exactly fit the category of 'single-handedly leading your team to a title'.
I am of the belief that trading Tatum for KD would be a mistake—but let me ask you this—who in the NBA right now is capable of single handedly leading a team to the title?  Curry played great—but no way the Warriors win the most recent title without Wiggins, Poole, and Thompson.  Jokic had an MVP season and didn’t make much noise the playoffs.  Luka took his team far—but lets call a spade a spade. The Mavs didn’t start rolling this season until they gave Brunson a bigger role and made the move for Dinwiddie.  Booker has shown that he can’t single handedly lead a team to a title.  Embiid hasn’t done it. I guess maybe Giannis might be the only guy that fits into that category right now.   KD is probably in a tier of 5-8 players that are as close to that category as there is. 

 
He has two finals MVPs, but that team might have won both of those titles without him. Doesn't exactly fit the category of 'single-handedly leading your team to a title'.
Draymond himself said two weeks ago that they don’t beat Lebron that year unless they had KD.  

 
Draymond himself said two weeks ago that they don’t beat Lebron that year unless they had KD.  
I think that says more about LeBron than anyone else, that a 73-win team had to go out and get a guy most considered a top 3 player at the time in order to beat him. 

 
Not if they let KD go to the Heat.  And I expect the Sixers and Bucks to be better this year too. 
If KD goes to the Heat, Miami would have to gut their roster to do it. The Nets aren’t going to take a package of bench players and a ton of picks. A team of KD, Jimmy Buckets, and Lowrie isn’t exactly a youth movement. And the Nets would likely need a third team involved because they can’t take back Bam (unless they move Simmons).

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
I am of the belief that trading Tatum for KD would be a mistake—but let me ask you this—who in the NBA right now is capable of single handedly leading a team to the title?  Curry played great—but no way the Warriors win the most recent title without Wiggins, Poole, and Thompson.  Jokic had an MVP season and didn’t make much noise the playoffs.  Luka took his team far—but lets call a spade a spade. The Mavs didn’t start rolling this season until they gave Brunson a bigger role and made the move for Dinwiddie.  Booker has shown that he can’t single handedly lead a team to a title.  Embiid hasn’t done it. I guess maybe Giannis might be the only guy that fits into that category right now.   KD is probably in a tier of 5-8 players that are as close to that category as there is. 
The only two players I’ve watched that seemingly COULD drag a group of scrubs to championship heights was MJ and LeBron - and even those two needed Pippen and Wade/Kyrie.  Basically the idea that one guy can do it alone has always been a fallacy.

I don’t know who was the worst team in the league last year but put KD on it and at best they make the playoffs most likely 

 
Basically the idea that one guy can do it alone has always been a fallacy.
This is an interesting thread to pull:

In NBA history, what has been the furthest one guy "doing it alone" has gotten a team?

I guess another way to look at it is to look at single-star-driven title teams, losing Finals teams, and maybe even NBA Final Four teams and see which one had the weakest second-best player.

First thought was the 2006 Pistons with Ben Wallace, Billups, and Rip Hamilton -- but that wasn't really Wallace carrying the team on his back.

Second thought -- and IMHO, the leader in the clubhouse -- were the mid-90s Rockets teams with Olajuwon. After Hakeem ... who was #2? Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell? Robert Horry is more a trivia answer than anything. 1994 MVP Olajuwon was the team's only All-Star and only All-NBA selection.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Not if they let KD go to the Heat.  And I expect the Sixers and Bucks to be better this year too. 
Possibly, they are very good teams…but why wouldn’t the Celtics be better as well since they are younger and have now added Brogdon and Gallinari?

 
Capella said:
The man has two finals MVPs lol. The grasping at straws to discount every accomplishment legends like Lebron and Durant have achieved is one of the worst aspects of the social media era.  
Who is grasping at straws here?  Durant has been a generational player, no one denies that but he is now 34 and has a pretty good injury history of late…saying you would rather have a 24 year old player like Tatum for the next 10-12 years over Durant for a 2-4 year window is really not some type of reach and let’s remember the asking price appears to be far more than just Tatum…what I dislike about your premise is your are treating Tatum and the Celtics like a finished product and zeroing in on a disappointing finals as the be all end all…if Tatum and the Celts duplicate that finals effort a few more times that you can make a crazy move but right now there is just no reason to panic or go all in on one title run that would probably kill any type of long-term success…the additions of Brogdon and Galinari are pretty significant additions, this is not a team simply satisfied with getting to the finals, they are making moves that will hopefully help them in a very competitive Eastern Conference…looking at last year’s legit Eastern contenders as of now they have helped themselves the most.

 
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This is an interesting thread to pull:

In NBA history, what has been the furthest one guy "doing it alone" has gotten a team?

I guess another way to look at it is to look at single-star-driven title teams, losing Finals teams, and maybe even NBA Final Four teams and see which one had the weakest second-best player.

First thought was the 2006 Pistons with Ben Wallace, Billups, and Rip Hamilton -- but that wasn't really Wallace carrying the team on his back.

Second thought -- and IMHO, the leader in the clubhouse -- were the mid-90s Rockets teams with Olajuwon. After Hakeem ... who was #2? Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell? Robert Horry is more a trivia answer than anything. 1994 MVP Olajuwon was the team's only All-Star and only All-NBA selection.
Lebron carrying a really crappy Cleveland team (pre-miami) to the finals has to be up there. 

Iverson's philly finals team jusmos to mind, as well.

 
This is an interesting thread to pull:

In NBA history, what has been the furthest one guy "doing it alone" has gotten a team?

I guess another way to look at it is to look at single-star-driven title teams, losing Finals teams, and maybe even NBA Final Four teams and see which one had the weakest second-best player.

First thought was the 2006 Pistons with Ben Wallace, Billups, and Rip Hamilton -- but that wasn't really Wallace carrying the team on his back.

Second thought -- and IMHO, the leader in the clubhouse -- were the mid-90s Rockets teams with Olajuwon. After Hakeem ... who was #2? Kenny Smith, Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell? Robert Horry is more a trivia answer than anything. 1994 MVP Olajuwon was the team's only All-Star and only All-NBA selection.
The first one I think of is Iverson and Philly in a losing effort….you touched on Olajuwon…old school I would think Rick Barry with the Warriors was as close as you get to one guy winning it….Walton with Portland but that was an excellent “team”…Dirk with the Mavs is probably the closet in recent history as far as winning it.

 
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The first one I think of is Iverson and Philly in a losing effort….old school I would think Rick Barry with the Warriors was as close as you get to one guy winning it….Walton with Portland but that was an excellent “team”…Dirk with the Mavs is probably the closet in recent history as far as winning it.
That's who I was thinking of. Dirk with who, Jason Terry?  :mellow:

 
Max Christie is a long way off being ready to handle playing with the big boys. Scottie pippen Jr. Has looked pretty good this far on summer, and that Swider guy can shoot. Hope they're able to hang on to those 2 in the fall.

 
Max Christie is a long way off being ready to handle playing with the big boys. Scottie pippen Jr. Has looked pretty good this far on summer, and that Swider guy can shoot. Hope they're able to hang on to those 2 in the fall.
thank you for posting this.. even though it's Lakers related.

at least it's not another Durant and/or Lebron are actually statistically really bad at basketball argument.

 
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