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2022 FBG, 172 to 1 Beatles Countdown 1-25 lists... And 173 to 1 Countdown from 1-64 lists! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Zegras11
- Start date
As a result of this thread - knowing all the stories, lyrics and innovations - my next round of rankings is going to change a LOT.
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I will say that I had some big swings but a lot of mine were pretty similar. I generally still like what I like although the thread opened my eyes to great stuff like Hey Bulldog.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Guido Merkins
Footballguy
One of my thoughts is that their voices blended perfectly together, especially John and Paul. I also think Paul was a musical genius. A guy that could dream about a song with the perfect melody of Yesterday is something otherworldly. I’d put it right up there with the likes of Mozart and Beethoven.
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Zegras11
Footballguy
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I think it was the haircuts. If they all shaved their heads this thread wouldn't even exist.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
MAC_32
Footballguy
I'll be one of your last submissions, but looks like another round of winter is swopping through NE Ohio this weekend. May serve as a good opportunity to dive into this and absorb all that I missed. There's quite a bit throughout the top 75 or so that I'm familiar with, but that familiarity does not extend beyond cursory. I intend to fix that and we'll see what sticks.
Shaft41
Footballguy
So I'm using the ranking engine head-to-head comparison tool Krista mentioned before the original 1-25 rankings to try and help me whittle down my 110 Top 64. It is absolutely uncanny how it throws out two songs that I think would be at nearly identical spots in the rankings. Somehow, it knows.
Zegras11
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
- Most great rock bands are a front man / lead vocalist and a backing band. The Beatles had four singers in a backing band. The harmonies of Lennon-McCartney-Harrison are superb. Their singing really sets them apart from other great rock bands.
ASIDE - The reason Ringo got one song per album was simple - he was the most popular Beatle in the early days. It was good marketing. When they sang on the Ed Sullivan Show, they were standing in the wings and one of the comedians on that night said "Can you believe this all for you?" John replied, "Naw this is for Ringo."
- Best group of songwriters in history. Lennon-McCartney accounted for 156 of the 206 songs in the canon, but by 1969, Harrison had fully caught up with them - maybe even surpassed them. For their career output, though, I can't imagine a better duo than John & Paul.
- They were easily bored. They wanted every single and every album to be different. The evolution of their music over the 7-1/2 years recording together is extraordinary. Whole books are devoted simply to their influence and innovation. Countless bands that followed them cite them as their biggest influence - and it's still true 60 years later, younger generations are discovering them on their own.
Except it never did.
I think in subtle ways competition drove them. There was a rivalry between John and Paul. When Dylan released Highway 61 Revisited they responded with Rubber Soul. With touring behind them - let's not forget that was by far the bulk of their income, they had a lousy royalty deal - they became the most innovative studio band in the world. Revolver took 220 hours as they took their sound to places they had never been before. When Brian Wilson wrote Pet Sounds, their next album was Pepper.
Their humor and wit had a lot to do with their popularity. They laughed at their own jokes and always looked like they were having a blast. At least up until Brian Epstein, they had incredible camaraderie.
They had a global impact on culture. They practically invented World music with George's incorporation of Indian music.
To be honest, I cannot succinctly articulate what made them great. But trying to understand that is one of the reasons it is so satisfying to devote so much time to learning more about them. They came along at just the right moment in history. They were truly fortunate to be managed by Brian Epstein, who presented them so well, and produced by George Martin, who wasn't afraid to trust them and to try the unconventional.
All of it - the look, the personalities, the sound, it was all exactly what the public was looking for, and teenagers absolutely lost their minds. Then, incredibly, they left that fan base behind and created a new one that represented counterculture.
It's one of the most unique and compelling stories in the history of entertainment.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
Skiffle has a lot more to do with it than people realize. Rather than follow the Elvis, identity-heavy line or blues purist tack, skiffle had less shame about appropriating any & all forms of music and was much less pedantic. no mission statement but to please the audience.
Our three guides thru this compilation showed over&over how John, Paul & George trusted themselves to channel any influence - Music Hall, R&B, rockabilly whatever - and have it come out theirs. Most British Invasion artists were oriented to a singular vision of what they were after, even if they sought to innovate. The Beatles had more songwriters than the other bands and less scruples about what they borrowed. Turns out that was a hella formula.
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ConstruxBoy
Kate's Daddy
I feel like most of the great musical acts do this to some degree. Zeppelin's third album, Pearl Jam's fourth album, the Stones branched out from their more "Pop-py" start to the "dirtier blues". I feel like bands that keep repeating the same style and formula, even if it's a great one, will never truly be a great band. But the Beatles certainly excelled at it. To be fair, it helps a lot not to be touring or playing live.
Shaft41
Footballguy
There has to be an account made for the confluence of such incredible, God-given ability and talent in a small area of Liverpool that is literally a once in a lifetime thing. It's almost like their singular abilities weren't going to allow them not to be great, at least to a certain agree. But I always have to also account for their work ethic. I can't compare it to other bands, because I don't know their stories like I do the Beatles, but I can't imagine there were too many other bands that put in the time, effort and sheer commitment than the Fabs. Those formative dance hall/Hamburg/Cavern days surely set the tone that they were going to do whatever it took to be a band. Even once they were established and quickly became The Band Of Bands, they still never took their foot off the pedal. Oh, we're not going to tour anymore and play hundreds of shows? We'll still write hundreds of songs, spend hundreds of hours recording them, make movies, produce music for other artists, begin our own company, etc. because we love music more than anything else on Earth*.
* with the possible exception of cigarettes
* with the possible exception of cigarettes
heckmanm
Footballguy
I agree. That's kind of where I was going with the 90% remark. IDK the exact percentage, but there's a top strata of acts that are able and willing to do it.
Tom Hagen
Footballguy
I have to be honest, if 25 year old me had Apple scruffs throwing themselves at me every time I went to work I wouldn't get much work done.
Guido Merkins
Footballguy
This is an extremely complex question. Of course, i have given it a lot of thought.
First, you can't underestimate the chance of good timing. The Beatles came along at a time where the original rock and roll stars had kind of faded away. Motown was happening. Early Beach Boys too, but overall, this was a weaker time than in the mid-late 50s. Kennedy being shot in the US also, I think, had an effect. People were looking for a distraction. As far as the rest of the world, there were no such hangups about a British group playing rock and roll. Also, think about the chances of John Lennon meeting the only other guy he ever knew that also wrote songs in Paul McCartney. These things can only be given to chance.
Second, most band members meet each other when they get into their 20s or so and they are actively looking to form a band. John, Paul, and George grew up together. They were EXTREMELY close friends who had many of the same tastes and influences. They spent a few years more as a wanna be band than an actual band. They weren't a real band until they went to Hamburg in 1960 (or more correctly, when they left Hamburg in 1960), but they shared may experiences together and formed their identities together which led to this extreme mind meld.
Third, John and Paul practically completed each other. Paul was more musically literate. John more lyrical. They were able to give each other things that the other didn't possess as much of. That's not to say that Paul couldn't write great lyrics or that John couldn't write great music, but together, they were unbeatable.
Fourth, what other band has George Harrison as the 3rd banana? None. Not even close. The Beatles had an artist in their band at the level of a Tom Petty and he WASN'T the leader. He wasn't even the 2nd leader.
Fifth, they could ALL SING. Yes, even Ringo. What other band has 4 lead singers? Now, would Ringo be a lead singer if he hadn't been a Beatle? Probably not, but he could put over a song better than you think.
Sixth, I'm gonna say it. Ringo. Ringo completed what was already a strong 3 person group. He completed them musically and with his personality. It is telling that Ringo is the only one who worked with every other member after the breakup.
Seventh, and probably most important, they wrote songs. The Beatles (along with Dylan) made it to where you couldn't be taken seriously as an artist unless you wrote your own songs. And they were great songwriters from the very beginning. Those that make fun of I Want to Hold Your Hand and She Loves You have no idea what they are talking about. Great songs from the very beginning.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
This is a really good post, except I take issue with #7 (my issue isn't with Guido, but with the general worldview that an artist can only be taken seriously if they write their own songs).
To me, what MADE the Beatles the Beatles is what Guido alluded to in his second point. I'm gonna quote Greil Marcus here, because he says a lot of it better than I could:
The argument that seems to emerge from a close listening to the Beatles’ music, on the other hand, is this one: by 1962 the Beatles’ mastery of rock and roll was such that it was inevitable they would change the form simply by addressing themselves to it. Unlike the Stones or Dylan, the Beatles came up through rock; as they went on, extending (if not deepening) their mastery, they defined rock, to the degree that it made sense to speak of “Yesterday,” a ballad accompanied only by acoustic guitar and strings, as “rock and roll,” simply because the disc was credited to the Beatles. And unlike Dylan, and possibly the Stones, at least until 1966, the Beatles had no fall-back position. They were rock and roll or they were nothing. As such, they were, at their best, the best.
Their pop explosion, after all, was not kicked off simply by assassination and PR. You could hear it, and what you heard was a rock and roll group that combined elements of the music that you were used to hearing only in pieces. That is, the form of the Beatles contained the forms of rock and roll itself. The Beatles combined the harmonic range and implicit equality of the Fifties vocal group (the Dell-Vikings, say) with the flash of a rockabilly band (the Crickets or Gene Vincent’s Blue Caps) with the aggressive and unique personalities of the classic rock stars (Elvis, Little Richard) with the homey this-could-be-you manner of later rock stars (Everly Brothers, Holly, Eddie Cochran) with the endlessly inventive songwriting touch of the Brill Building, and delivered it all with the grace of the Miracles, the physicality of “Louie Louie,” and the absurd enthusiasm of Gary “U.S.” Bonds. Three of the Beatles wrote, all sang lead, and they played their own music; in sum, they communicated (and generically insisted upon) absolute involvement (it was only after the Beatles that “rock groups” had to make their own records and write their own songs). Rock, which in the course of the Fifties had changed from a personal inspiration and affirmation to a process that allowed the most marginal of commitments, became, in the shape of the Beatles, a way of life.
Consider the Beatles’ history. When they signed with EMI they were not merely in touch with their roots; in a significant and probably unique sense, they were their roots. They were not only a product of the pre-Beatles era of rock, they were a version of it. Accompanying the shock of novelty so many experienced on first exposure to the Beatles in 1963 or ’64 was a shock of recognition, which bespoke the Beatles’ connection to the whole history of rock and roll up to that time: the Beatles had absorbed that history because—year by year, playing and listening and writing, in Liverpool and on the bottoms of British tours and in Hamburg—they had, albeit invisibly, made it.
No one else could touch this sort of mastery, and the result was that elusive rock treasure, a new sound—and a new sound that could not be exhausted in the course of one brief flurry on the charts. That sound was best captured in the Beatles’ 1963 recordings of “Please Please Me,” “I Saw Her Standing There,” their version of the Shirelles’ “Boys,” the incandescent “There’s a Place,” “It Won’t Be Long,” “All I’ve Got to Do,” “She Loves You,” “I Want to Hold Your Hand,” “All My Loving,” George’s brooding “Don’t Bother Me,” “Little Child,” and their cover of Barrett Strong’s “Money,” plus such 1964 cuts as “A Hard Day’s Night,” “Anytime at All,” “I Should Have Known Better,” “Things We Said Today,” “I’ll Be Back,” “No Reply,” “Eight Days a Week,” “Every Little Thing,” and “What You’re Doing.”
Which brings me once again to the issue of the Beatles cover songs being somehow "lesser" than the rest of their catalog. Until the day I die, I'll maintain that those covers - most of them really good! - were essential to the Beatles making it in America. There had to be a bridge.
Fantastic post. Was thinking many of the same things. The musicians in here would know better, but is there anything to the way they learned to be musicians? One of the revelations for me watching Get Back was that they all played the piano. Also it seemed like they excelled at music theory - chords, harmonics, etc. I’m not sure if that’s common amongst all guitarists. But it was crazy to see them effortlessly pick up a song and immediately be able to play the guitar parts perfectly. I was a pretty mean trumpet player back in the day and I had.no abilities whatsoever to stray outside of written music. I honestly don’t know if all guitarists have this ability due to the nature of the instrument, but they seemed to be able to harmonize instinctively, by voice as well as instrumentally. If I’m barking up the wrong tree on this please let me know.
Guido Merkins
Footballguy
I'm sorry. I should have put in there something like "for good or for bad, the Beatles made it to where you had to write your own songs"
Song interpretation is, in and of itself, also an art form. Louis Armstrong didn't write many songs, but who would argue that West End Blues isn't his song. It certainly is and Armstrong's talent and influence speaks for itself. This is just one example. But the Beatles influence was so vast that pop/rock became a composers art form and not an interpretive art form, at least primarily
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Guido Merkins
Footballguy
They learned it by thousands of hours of practice in Hamburg and Liverpool. If you play that much you either will end up being really good, if you have anything at all, or you will stay the same, which means you don't have it. Pete Best, for example, I don't think improved as much as the others in those formative years and they all recognized he was the weak link, so they went for Ringo.
Their harmonies were because of the music they listened to, girl groups and doo *** and other vocal music like the Everly Brothers. They learned it by listening to the masters. And, IMO, Paul especially just had a really good ear for it.
I found this interesting… Here’s the top 40 from January 25, 1964 when the Beatles broke through in America. I don’t think I know more than 5 songs. And is there ANYTHING in here that even remotely resembles I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND? It must have sounded like a whole new genre.
1 1 THERE! I’VE SAID IT AGAIN –•– Bobby Vinton (Epic)-9 (4 weeks at #1) (1)
2 2 LOUIE LOUIE –•– The Kingsmen (Wand)-12 (2)
3 45 I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND –•– The Beatles (Capitol)-2 (3)
4 5 SURFIN’ BIRD –•– The Trashmen (Garrett)-8 (4)
5 3 POPSICLES AND ICICLES –•– The Murmaids (Chattahoochee)-10 (3)
6 9 OUT OF LIMITS –•– The Marketts (Warner Brothers)-8 (6)
7 7 HEY LITTLE COBRA –•– The Rip Chords (Columbia)-7 (7)
8 4 FORGET HIM –•– Bobby Rydell (Cameo)-12 (4)
9 14 UM, UM, UM, UM, UM, UM –•– Major Lance (Okeh)-4 (9)
10 10 DRAG CITY –•– Jan and Dean (Liberty)-8 (10)
11 11 WHISPERING –•– Nino Tempo and April Stevens (Atco)-6 (11)
12 12 AS USUAL –•– Brenda Lee (Decca)-7 (12)
13 18 YOU DON’T OWN ME –•– Lesley Gore (Mercury)-5 (13)
14 19 FOR YOU –•– Rick Nelson (Decca)-5 (14)
15 6 DOMINIQUE –•– The Singing Nun (Philips)-12 (1)
16 17 ANYONE WHO HAD A HEART –•– Dionne Warwick (Scepter)-8 (16)
17 8 THE NITTY GRITTY –•– Shirley Ellis (Congress)-11 (8)
18 23 DAISY PETAL PICKIN’ –•– Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs (Dot)-7 (18)
19 13 SINCE I FELL FOR YOU –•– Lenny Welch (Cadence)-14 (4)
20 20 THAT LUCKY OLD SUN –•– Ray Charles (ABC-Paramount)-8 (20)
21 24 SOMEWHERE –•– The Tymes (Parkway)-8 (21)
22 21 QUICKSAND –•– Martha and the Vandellas (Gordy)-10 (8)
23 15 MIDNIGHT MARY –•– Joey Powers (Amy)-12 (10)
24 25 WHEN THE LOVELIGHT STARTS SHINING THROUGH HIS EYES –•– The Supremes (Motown)-9 (23)
25 50 TALKING ABOUT MY BABY –•– The Impressions (ABC-Paramount)-2 (25)
26 28 BABY, I LOVE YOU –•– The Ronettes (Philles)-6 (26)
27 30 HOOKA TOOKA –•– Chubby Checker (Parkway)-8 (27)
28 22 WIVES AND LOVERS –•– Jack Jones (Kapp)-13 (14)
29 16 TALK BACK TREMBLING LIPS –•– Johnny Tillotson (MGM)-12 (7)
30 48 A FOOL NEVER LEARNS –•– Andy Williams (Columbia)-3 (30)
31 27 YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE A BABY TO CRY –•– The Caravelles (Smash)-13 (3)
32 32 CAN I GET A WITNESS –•– Marvin Gaye (Tamla)-15 (22)
33 39 WHAT KIND OF FOOL (Do You Think I Am) –•– The Tams (ABC-Paramount)-7 (33)
34 34 GIRLS GROW UP FASTER THAN BOYS –•– The Cookies (Dimension)-9 (34)
35 31 NEED TO BELONG –•– Jerry Butler (Vee-Jay)-10 (31)
36 53 JAVA –•– Al Hirt (RCA Victor)-4 (36)
37 40 IT’S ALL IN THE GAME –•– Cliff Richard (Epic)-8 (37)
38 47 WHAT’S EASY FOR TWO IS SO HARD FOR ONE –•– Mary Wells (Motown)-10 (38)
39 44 I CAN’T STOP TALKING ABOUT YOU –•– Steve and Eydie (Columbia)-6 (39)
40 42 CHARADE –•– Henry Mancini and His Orchestra (RCA Victor)-8 (40)
1 1 THERE! I’VE SAID IT AGAIN –•– Bobby Vinton (Epic)-9 (4 weeks at #1) (1)
2 2 LOUIE LOUIE –•– The Kingsmen (Wand)-12 (2)
3 45 I WANT TO HOLD YOUR HAND –•– The Beatles (Capitol)-2 (3)
4 5 SURFIN’ BIRD –•– The Trashmen (Garrett)-8 (4)
5 3 POPSICLES AND ICICLES –•– The Murmaids (Chattahoochee)-10 (3)
6 9 OUT OF LIMITS –•– The Marketts (Warner Brothers)-8 (6)
7 7 HEY LITTLE COBRA –•– The Rip Chords (Columbia)-7 (7)
8 4 FORGET HIM –•– Bobby Rydell (Cameo)-12 (4)
9 14 UM, UM, UM, UM, UM, UM –•– Major Lance (Okeh)-4 (9)
10 10 DRAG CITY –•– Jan and Dean (Liberty)-8 (10)
11 11 WHISPERING –•– Nino Tempo and April Stevens (Atco)-6 (11)
12 12 AS USUAL –•– Brenda Lee (Decca)-7 (12)
13 18 YOU DON’T OWN ME –•– Lesley Gore (Mercury)-5 (13)
14 19 FOR YOU –•– Rick Nelson (Decca)-5 (14)
15 6 DOMINIQUE –•– The Singing Nun (Philips)-12 (1)
16 17 ANYONE WHO HAD A HEART –•– Dionne Warwick (Scepter)-8 (16)
17 8 THE NITTY GRITTY –•– Shirley Ellis (Congress)-11 (8)
18 23 DAISY PETAL PICKIN’ –•– Jimmy Gilmer and the Fireballs (Dot)-7 (18)
19 13 SINCE I FELL FOR YOU –•– Lenny Welch (Cadence)-14 (4)
20 20 THAT LUCKY OLD SUN –•– Ray Charles (ABC-Paramount)-8 (20)
21 24 SOMEWHERE –•– The Tymes (Parkway)-8 (21)
22 21 QUICKSAND –•– Martha and the Vandellas (Gordy)-10 (8)
23 15 MIDNIGHT MARY –•– Joey Powers (Amy)-12 (10)
24 25 WHEN THE LOVELIGHT STARTS SHINING THROUGH HIS EYES –•– The Supremes (Motown)-9 (23)
25 50 TALKING ABOUT MY BABY –•– The Impressions (ABC-Paramount)-2 (25)
26 28 BABY, I LOVE YOU –•– The Ronettes (Philles)-6 (26)
27 30 HOOKA TOOKA –•– Chubby Checker (Parkway)-8 (27)
28 22 WIVES AND LOVERS –•– Jack Jones (Kapp)-13 (14)
29 16 TALK BACK TREMBLING LIPS –•– Johnny Tillotson (MGM)-12 (7)
30 48 A FOOL NEVER LEARNS –•– Andy Williams (Columbia)-3 (30)
31 27 YOU DON’T HAVE TO BE A BABY TO CRY –•– The Caravelles (Smash)-13 (3)
32 32 CAN I GET A WITNESS –•– Marvin Gaye (Tamla)-15 (22)
33 39 WHAT KIND OF FOOL (Do You Think I Am) –•– The Tams (ABC-Paramount)-7 (33)
34 34 GIRLS GROW UP FASTER THAN BOYS –•– The Cookies (Dimension)-9 (34)
35 31 NEED TO BELONG –•– Jerry Butler (Vee-Jay)-10 (31)
36 53 JAVA –•– Al Hirt (RCA Victor)-4 (36)
37 40 IT’S ALL IN THE GAME –•– Cliff Richard (Epic)-8 (37)
38 47 WHAT’S EASY FOR TWO IS SO HARD FOR ONE –•– Mary Wells (Motown)-10 (38)
39 44 I CAN’T STOP TALKING ABOUT YOU –•– Steve and Eydie (Columbia)-6 (39)
40 42 CHARADE –•– Henry Mancini and His Orchestra (RCA Victor)-8 (40)
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Binky The Doormat
Footballguy
flat tops and pompadours baby!!!
Zegras11
Footballguy
starting at 13:00 mark, Ringo and George were asked who each one appealed to. The answer covers all people and Ringo mentions that he thought this way a main reason why they were so popular.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQaqcLPAI_s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQaqcLPAI_s
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Sorry if this was already posted, but everyone loves Ringo.
https://static0.thethingsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/George-and-Olivia-Harrison,-Ringo-Starr-and-Barbara-Bach,-Paul-and-Linda-McCartney,-featured-image.jpg?
https://static0.thethingsimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/George-and-Olivia-Harrison,-Ringo-Starr-and-Barbara-Bach,-Paul-and-Linda-McCartney,-featured-image.jpg?
It happens @krista4. The other day I walked into the kitchen for something, said hi to my cat, then completely forgot what I was there for.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Zegras11
Footballguy
In his initialI just went through an initial cut with Mr. krista to get to his 64. Mr. krista, who allegedly doesn't like Eric Clapton because he's a Beatles fan
cut he got it down (binky up) to 120. 
I hear @Binky The Doormat has his up (rest of us down) to 197 at the moment.
rockaction
Footballguy
Getz,
I don't know if you still have it, but if you sent me my top twenty-five in a PM, I'd sure appreciate it. I seem to have buried the file in my computer and can't find it. That would make a top sixty-four a whole lot more accurate and sensical from me. I have no idea what my top twenty-five looked like anymore.
I don't know if you still have it, but if you sent me my top twenty-five in a PM, I'd sure appreciate it. I seem to have buried the file in my computer and can't find it. That would make a top sixty-four a whole lot more accurate and sensical from me. I have no idea what my top twenty-five looked like anymore.
Zegras11
Footballguy
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
YOU CUT HT AND E AFTER THAT WRITEUP YOU DID?List sent!
My last four out - maybe we should have had play-in games: If I Fell; Here, There and Everywhere; Hold Me Tight; You Won't See Me.
I might include in my 64 BECAUSE of your writeup.
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