2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Message board poster furiously types out one more horrible post before thread closes (1 Viewer)

[Alex P Keaton]

I still can't believe that's not a travel and you can take 4 steps and 2 jumps without dribbling as long as you stop in between.

What play was this?

I’m assuming it was the late game (final minute?) Jaylen Brown bucket where he jump stopped taking two steps to stop, picked up his dribble, then changed direction and took two more steps.

It’s obviously a travel, but we all know that traveling no longer exists in basketball, particularly the NBA.

Looks clean to me. Definitely not what you described

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I can’t pull up the link, but if the score was roughly 102-100, I’ve just watched it again. He clearly stops, shuffles his feet subtly, takes two more steps and shoots.

Nobody calls that anymore - the NBA and all of basketball have given up - but that would have been a travel 100% of the time anytime before say 2015. People call it a step through evidently, but it’s just a travel.

But again, nobody calls that so it wasn’t a travel. I’m just making a wild guess that FreeBG was referencing that play.

The play @the moops linked looks clean to me, and it is at 102-100. Brown picks up his dribble as he stops (not exactly a jump stop). His right foot goes down first, so that is his first step and pivot foot, making his left foot his second step. He can move the left foot and does so, never moving his pivot foot until he picks it up while shooting off his left foot (second step), which is legal. I don't see a travel there.

That's an excellent link to it.
Celtics / J. Brown fan here .... but Since when can you come to a complete stop, pick up your dribble, up-fake, ... then decide to take two steps to the basket?
Maybe it's not a travel anymore but it should be. In my day your 2 steps were a continuation of your motion after your dribble was picked up ... not just 2 extra steps when you feel like using them. He literally picked up his pivot foot well before shooting.

What was more egregious at the end of that game was the Pacers player that picks up his dribble, jumps with the ball, then drops the ball so as not to be called for up & down, then runs to retrieve the ball.
No idea what the refs were looking at. Must have thought one of the Celtics touched the ball but they clearly did not. ... either that or this is no longer called a travel either.

You get two steps. When he came to a stop, the first foot down (right foot) equals his first step and pivot foot. His second foot down (left foot) is his second step and not his pivot foot, so he can move that around as long as he holds his pivot foot. When he shoots, he steps forward on his left foot while picking up his right foot. That is legal. His left foot equates to his second step there, and he never puts his right foot back on the floor before shooting, so there is no third step.

I'm surprised there is so much debate on this. It is very clearly not a travel and never has been under and college or NBA level rules that I am aware of. It is actually textbook good footwork.

So, from a standstill, you can step and lift your pivot foot ... continue on to your non-pivot foot and pass the ball or take a shot ... and this has always been the rule?
So this would be the case if you never dribbled either? Catch the ball, pivot back and forth, up-fake, and then take a giant step onto your non-pivot foot, pass or shoot?
I must be the only old guy in here. In my day we'd get called for traveling if we dragged our pivot foot a few inches ... now you can just step right off it and shoot off the other foot lol.
UPS: What Can Brown Do For You

Step through moves have always been allowed and dragging the pivot foot is always a travel. Those are two very different things.

Here is a video on the subject.

Thx for the video and explanation Jayrod. I always defer to you on rules. Though I note that even in the video the “player” literally says he thought the same thing that was being discussed in here (for 27 years). Interesting. I still think it looks like a travel - as does a Harden step back.

 

[Tau837]

I still can't believe that's not a travel and you can take 4 steps and 2 jumps without dribbling as long as you stop in between.

What play was this?

I’m assuming it was the late game (final minute?) Jaylen Brown bucket where he jump stopped taking two steps to stop, picked up his dribble, then changed direction and took two more steps.

It’s obviously a travel, but we all know that traveling no longer exists in basketball, particularly the NBA.

Looks clean to me. Definitely not what you described

Video and Shotcharts | Stats | NBA.com

A video and Shot Chart interface with the ability to filter down to specific on court events and granular details.

www.nba.com

I can’t pull up the link, but if the score was roughly 102-100, I’ve just watched it again. He clearly stops, shuffles his feet subtly, takes two more steps and shoots.

Nobody calls that anymore - the NBA and all of basketball have given up - but that would have been a travel 100% of the time anytime before say 2015. People call it a step through evidently, but it’s just a travel.

But again, nobody calls that so it wasn’t a travel. I’m just making a wild guess that FreeBG was referencing that play.

The play @the moops linked looks clean to me, and it is at 102-100. Brown picks up his dribble as he stops (not exactly a jump stop). His right foot goes down first, so that is his first step and pivot foot, making his left foot his second step. He can move the left foot and does so, never moving his pivot foot until he picks it up while shooting off his left foot (second step), which is legal. I don't see a travel there.

That's an excellent link to it.
Celtics / J. Brown fan here .... but Since when can you come to a complete stop, pick up your dribble, up-fake, ... then decide to take two steps to the basket?
Maybe it's not a travel anymore but it should be. In my day your 2 steps were a continuation of your motion after your dribble was picked up ... not just 2 extra steps when you feel like using them. He literally picked up his pivot foot well before shooting.

What was more egregious at the end of that game was the Pacers player that picks up his dribble, jumps with the ball, then drops the ball so as not to be called for up & down, then runs to retrieve the ball.
No idea what the refs were looking at. Must have thought one of the Celtics touched the ball but they clearly did not. ... either that or this is no longer called a travel either.

You get two steps. When he came to a stop, the first foot down (right foot) equals his first step and pivot foot. His second foot down (left foot) is his second step and not his pivot foot, so he can move that around as long as he holds his pivot foot. When he shoots, he steps forward on his left foot while picking up his right foot. That is legal. His left foot equates to his second step there, and he never puts his right foot back on the floor before shooting, so there is no third step.

I'm surprised there is so much debate on this. It is very clearly not a travel and never has been under and college or NBA level rules that I am aware of. It is actually textbook good footwork.

So, from a standstill, you can step and lift your pivot foot ... continue on to your non-pivot foot and pass the ball or take a shot ... and this has always been the rule?
So this would be the case if you never dribbled either? Catch the ball, pivot back and forth, up-fake, and then take a giant step onto your non-pivot foot, pass or shoot?
I must be the only old guy in here. In my day we'd get called for traveling if we dragged our pivot foot a few inches ... now you can just step right off it and shoot off the other foot lol.
UPS: What Can Brown Do For You

Step through moves have always been allowed and dragging the pivot foot is always a travel. Those are two very different things.

Here is a video on the subject.

Thx for the video and explanation Jayrod. I always defer to you on rules. Though I note that even in the video the “player” literally says he thought the same thing that was being discussed in here (for 27 years). Interesting. I still think it looks like a travel - as does a Harden step back.

I have definitely seen plenty of examples of liberal travels in these playoffs... lots of times a jump stop followed by a 3rd and sometimes even 4th step. This just wasn't an example of it.

 

[dickey moe]

Doris Burke is insufferable.

Can't stand the way she pronounces her "S's" - sounds like she has a bucket of coleslaw in her mouth.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

 

[Deamon]

Just got to Ljubljana. Go Luka, get that sweep tonight.

 

[msudaisy26]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

 

[msudaisy26]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

They were legal, but it was still not good defense as opposed to beating them to the spot. Plus just because it was legal doesn't mean it was good for the game. There are lots of rules that have been changed over the years. Getting rid of hand checking was a good move. No one wants to see a slow slob that can slow down, a more talented offensive player because he knew how to use his hands.

 

[Frostillicus]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

 

[identikit]

Mavs logo looks My Little Pony-ish

Needs improvement

 

[identikit]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

 

[Instinctive]

Apparently Kleber is available!

 

[Frostillicus]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

His offensive rebounding rate and lob threat (although not against this opponent) generally are a good thing.

 

[Instinctive]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

I don't think you understood the fact. Or maybe I didn't.

It's weird - they are +3 in minutes with Gobert and -7 without him.

Thin margins. And Game 3 was brutal.

If I were coaching Minnesota, I'd be trying Reid-Gobert-Towns-Edwards with Conley or McDaniels more. Put McDaniels on Kyrie and Reid on Luka. Let KAT run more pick and roll with Gobert with Reid spacing instead of NAW.

 

[identikit]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

I don't think you understood the fact. Or maybe I didn't.

It's weird - they are +3 in minutes with Gobert and -7 without him.

Thin margins. And Game 3 was brutal.

If I were coaching Minnesota, I'd be trying Reid-Gobert-Towns-Edwards with Conley or McDaniels more. Put McDaniels on Kyrie and Reid on Luka. Let KAT run more pick and roll with Gobert with Reid spacing instead of NAW.

Yeah I misread/misunderstood

Frosty's fault

 

[Frostillicus]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

I don't think you understood the fact. Or maybe I didn't.

It's weird - they are +3 in minutes with Gobert and -7 without him.

Thin margins. And Game 3 was brutal.

If I were coaching Minnesota, I'd be trying Reid-Gobert-Towns-Edwards with Conley or McDaniels more. Put McDaniels on Kyrie and Reid on Luka. Let KAT run more pick and roll with Gobert with Reid spacing instead of NAW.

They used the 3 big lineup sparingly during the season, but they did use it at times. I expect you'll see it if things aren't going their way tonight.

 

[msudaisy26]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

4 on 5 on offense is a tough thing to overcome

I don't think you understood the fact. Or maybe I didn't.

It's weird - they are +3 in minutes with Gobert and -7 without him.

Thin margins. And Game 3 was brutal.

If I were coaching Minnesota, I'd be trying Reid-Gobert-Towns-Edwards with Conley or McDaniels more. Put McDaniels on Kyrie and Reid on Luka. Let KAT run more pick and roll with Gobert with Reid spacing instead of NAW.

They used the 3 big lineup sparingly during the season, but they did use it at times. I expect you'll see it if things aren't going their way tonight.

If KAT starts slow, I hope they bench him. Draymond got benched for a finals game. I don't see why KAT can't.

 

[Instinctive]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

 

[identikit]

Gobert talking trash after running over/fouling Doncic

So dumb

 

[Desert_Power]

Non-fun fact: The Mavericks are scoring 110.6 points per 100 possessions with Gobert on the court and 135.1 points per 100 possessions with Gobert off the court.

Please don't let stats get in the way of hot takes. Gobert is awful and we know this because people on ESPN/TNT are telling us that. Duh.

 

[Zow]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

 

[identikit]

Would be cool if State Farm would do a commercial with CP3 in which every time they cut to him, he'd have a different jersey on, from each team he's played for.

 

[Desert_Power]

Would be cool if State Farm would do a commercial with CP3 in which every time they cut to him, he'd have a different jersey on, from each team he's played for.

Noticed that he is on ESPN's halftime show. Why are the dirtiest players getting these jobs?!

 

[Instinctive]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

Now it's annoying. How do you call that weak crap on Green for Edwards 25 feet from the basket but let Luka get mauled at the logo over and over. Pick a mode of reffing and be consistent.

 

[Zow]

KAT come on man…

 

[General Malaise]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

Now it's annoying. How do you call that weak crap on Green for Edwards 25 feet from the basket but let Luka get mauled at the logo over and over. Pick a mode of reffing and be consistent.

Maybe the refs have had enough of Luka's whining?

 

[Instinctive]

Did Minnesota suck at jump balls all year? Have they won one yet?

 

[nysfl2]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

Now it's annoying. How do you call that weak crap on Green for Edwards 25 feet from the basket but let Luka get mauled at the logo over and over. Pick a mode of reffing and be consistent.

Maybe the refs have had enough of Luka's whining?

Id say more likely that the nba doesn’t want 10 days of no basketball before the finals

 

[Desert_Power]

We'll probably have plenty of time for TWolves takes this offseason, but I hardly ever notice a guard on this team that isn't Ant really doing anything positive.

 

[identikit]

Gobert dribbling is no bueno

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

Now it's annoying. How do you call that weak crap on Green for Edwards 25 feet from the basket but let Luka get mauled at the logo over and over. Pick a mode of reffing and be consistent.

Maybe the refs have had enough of Luka's whining?

Id say more likely that the nba doesn’t want 10 days of no basketball before the finals

The extender is working his magic

 

[identikit]

We'll probably have plenty of time for TWolves takes this offseason, but I hardly ever notice a guard on this team that isn't Ant really doing anything positive.

I like Conley's play

 

[identikit]

KAT dumb

 

[Instinctive]

Towns has 3 fouls and all 3 are stupid. SVG calls two stupid, and I think the charge was obvious too he didn't even try a euro or anything.

ETA: Although I think theyre better with Reid anyway.

 

[Desert_Power]

We'll probably have plenty of time for TWolves takes this offseason, but I hardly ever notice a guard on this team that isn't Ant really doing anything positive.

I like Conley's play

Nice drive to shut me up there. Just want to see more and/or smarter ball movement. Some of that is probably coaching.

His size is a bit of a liability on defense too.

 

[Instinctive]

Naz Reid comes in and immediately does two positive things getting a great look and an offensive board.

Then Ant with a frustration foul.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

They were legal, but it was still not good defense as opposed to beating them to the spot. Plus just because it was legal doesn't mean it was good for the game. There are lots of rules that have been changed over the years. Getting rid of hand checking was a good move. No one wants to see a slow slob that can slow down, a more talented offensive player because he knew how to use his hands.

Derek Harper would hate this conversation

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

They were legal, but it was still not good defense as opposed to beating them to the spot. Plus just because it was legal doesn't mean it was good for the game. There are lots of rules that have been changed over the years. Getting rid of hand checking was a good move. No one wants to see a slow slob that can slow down, a more talented offensive player because he knew how to use his hands.

Yeah. Watching Jordan bird magic Barkley Shaq etc play thru hand checks sucked. So boring

 

[Desert_Power]

weak call

 

[msudaisy26]

Would be cool if State Farm would do a commercial with CP3 in which every time they cut to him, he'd have a different jersey on, from each team he's played for.

I would like it better if he got injured during the commercials as much as he did during the playoffs.

 

[msudaisy26]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

They were legal, but it was still not good defense as opposed to beating them to the spot. Plus just because it was legal doesn't mean it was good for the game. There are lots of rules that have been changed over the years. Getting rid of hand checking was a good move. No one wants to see a slow slob that can slow down, a more talented offensive player because he knew how to use his hands.

Derek Harper would hate this conversation

Exactly

 

[msudaisy26]

Travels, offense initiating fouls by jumping into defenders on the move, flops on rebounds, flops on picks ... it's all part of the sissified NBA. If they'd let defenders play defense with their hands, players couldn't get to the paint so easily. Which is how these kick outs for 3s happen and slow games with too many fouls shots happen. And how the refs get put on the spot to make so many blocking/touch fouls. If they couldn't get by so easily, those calls wouldn't need to be made. Give the defenders their hands back. Also pull 2 TOs per half away from each coach.

The refs are calling it how the league wants. It's just sissified. If you called some of this stuff at the playground you'd get run off the court.

Playing defense with your hands has always been lazy/bad defense. The only time you should be using your hands is to contest shots or deflect passes.

This is simply not true. If the offense initiated the contact you were allowed to play D with your hands as long as they were part of your body (not extended) We were also allowed to put them on the ball handler before they dribbled. I coached and played forever ago. Always of course teach to move your feet to beat them to the spot. But when the offense is initiating the contact the D gets called way, way too much for a foul simply because they are riding along side the player and the ball handler jumps into them with no real desire to make a bball move. They are just making the ref call something. Call it on the offense. Fact is a smart ball handler (Harden for example) can draw 10+ FTs a game by running into another moving player. It's really ruined the game IMO. I'm amazed defenders are so talented these days to not get called for a foul every single play.

I actually looked it up. The NBA made it illegal in 2004. Before that, hand checks were legal.

They were legal, but it was still not good defense as opposed to beating them to the spot. Plus just because it was legal doesn't mean it was good for the game. There are lots of rules that have been changed over the years. Getting rid of hand checking was a good move. No one wants to see a slow slob that can slow down, a more talented offensive player because he knew how to use his hands.

Yeah. Watching Jordan bird magic Barkley Shaq etc play thru hand checks sucked. So boring

Just look at the games and the numbers. It would have been way better if they played in this era.

People that love the 80s and 90s basketball loves the players and the rivalries. If they had today's rules back then you and everyone else would have loved it even more. Seriously like a third of the league shot under 30 percent from 3. Even the worst shooting teams don't do that now.

 

[NewlyRetired]

Dallas has to feel great right now. Irving has yet to wake up, they shot only 37% for the half and go into half tied.

 

[General Malaise]

Man, they're letting Minny play physical on D tonight. We'll see if Dallas puts the big boy pants on and adjusts or if they just whine and get run over.

Yep. Good start and the defense should only intensify if they keep letting the contact go.

Minnesota should be up like 15 now.

Now it's annoying. How do you call that weak crap on Green for Edwards 25 feet from the basket but let Luka get mauled at the logo over and over. Pick a mode of reffing and be consistent.

Maybe the refs have had enough of Luka's whining?

Id say more likely that the nba doesn’t want 10 days of no basketball before the finals

WNBA would want it.....

 

[msudaisy26]

Getting to the half with all that foul trouble tied is a huge win for the Twolves.

 

[msudaisy26]

Twolves might lead this series 3 - 0 if they didn't give up 700 dunks a game.

 

[offdee]

Luka complaining about a foul on a walk to the basket layup while his teammate is fighting. So ridiculous.

 

[identikit]

Oh KAT

 

[Zow]

Oh KAT

He’s showing us his entire range of good play and bad the last few minutes.

 

[msudaisy26]

Oh KAT

He’s showing us his entire range of good play and bad the last few minutes.

He is mind numbing. He has so much talent. He should big in the second tier of bigs after Jokic. Instead he is just another horrible contract.