2023-24 NBA (Playoffs!) Thread: Lakers blame refs for blowing 20-point lead (32 Viewers)

[NewlyRetired]

I saw somewhere - reddit maybe, so who knows if its true - that Bagley was on pace to have lost the most games in a season ever for a player. Which would be fitting.

The one I saw on reddit a couple of weeks was similar but that Bagely was on pace to have a worse winning percentage than the 2011-2012 Bobcats (finished 7-59), which is the lowest winning % in NBA history.

As of the date of the post, Bagley has had a slightly worse winning percentage so far this season than the 7-59 Bobcats did.

 

[Zow]

I only know because I just looked it up, but curious if anyone could get the answer to this question without cheating:

Which NBA player who played in at least 820 games has the highest career winning %?

Horry or Fisher come to mind.

ETA: Maybe Bill Russell?

 

[Instinctive]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

 

[nysfl2]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

 

[Instinctive]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

I don't know Magic's Lakers well enough but there's probably someone else from those teams that's up there. Someone who was like only on those teams, or was on a mix of those plus some other awesome teams. But Kareem wouldn't be because he played so long there were down years I know in MIL and I think in LA that would balance it out a bit. Whereas Duncan probably won 55+ games like 15/20 years?

 

[the moops]

Kawhi?

 

[Instinctive]

Kawhi makes a ton of sense too. But some of these Clippers seasons may drag him down? Maybe he's still up there.

He's the exact archetype I'm trying to think for this, which is "amazing player who was drafted into a team that was already awesome" and didn't have any major down years.

Was thinking about Klay maybe too - like their bad year(s) he was out so maybe his win % was protected?

Honestly...Harden?

 

[Jayrod]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

I don't know Magic's Lakers well enough but there's probably someone else from those teams that's up there. Someone who was like only on those teams, or was on a mix of those plus some other awesome teams. But Kareem wouldn't be because he played so long there were down years I know in MIL and I think in LA that would balance it out a bit. Whereas Duncan probably won 55+ games like 15/20 years?

Michael Cooper comes in at #3. Kareem is at #14.

The Spurs big 3 are #4 (Ginobili) #5 (Duncan) & #8 (Parker). I think Parker had a season or two on some teams that didn't make the playoffs before he retired.

#1 & #2 are HOF's with multiple MVP's.

 

[Instinctive]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

I don't know Magic's Lakers well enough but there's probably someone else from those teams that's up there. Someone who was like only on those teams, or was on a mix of those plus some other awesome teams. But Kareem wouldn't be because he played so long there were down years I know in MIL and I think in LA that would balance it out a bit. Whereas Duncan probably won 55+ games like 15/20 years?

Michael Cooper comes in at #3. Kareem is at #14.

The Spurs big 3 are #4 (Ginobili) #5 (Duncan) & #8 (Parker). I think Parker had a season or two on some teams that didn't make the playoffs before he retired.

#1 & #2 are HOF's with multiple MVP's.

#1 or 2 has to be Magic then from my original post right? If Cooper and Kareem are on there?

 

[the moops]

Was thinking about Klay maybe too - like their bad year(s) he was out so maybe his win % was protected?

Golden State was really bad his rookie year. Maybe his second year too? Not sure when they turned good

 

[Jayrod]

Kawhi makes a ton of sense too. But some of these Clippers seasons may drag him down? Maybe he's still up there.

He's the exact archetype I'm trying to think for this, which is "amazing player who was drafted into a team that was already awesome" and didn't have any major down years.

Was thinking about Klay maybe too - like their bad year(s) he was out so maybe his win % was protected?

Honestly...Harden?

Kawhi has a very high %, but hasn't played in 820 games yet. He's #5 if you drop the threshold down to 650 games.

 

[Jayrod]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

I don't know Magic's Lakers well enough but there's probably someone else from those teams that's up there. Someone who was like only on those teams, or was on a mix of those plus some other awesome teams. But Kareem wouldn't be because he played so long there were down years I know in MIL and I think in LA that would balance it out a bit. Whereas Duncan probably won 55+ games like 15/20 years?

Michael Cooper comes in at #3. Kareem is at #14.

The Spurs big 3 are #4 (Ginobili) #5 (Duncan) & #8 (Parker). I think Parker had a season or two on some teams that didn't make the playoffs before he retired.

#1 & #2 are HOF's with multiple MVP's.

#1 or 2 has to be Magic then from my original post right? If Cooper and Kareem are on there?

Magic is #1

 

[Instinctive]

I'm gonna guess Ginobili, Duncan, Parker, Magic. Then maybe some subset of 60s Celtics but I don't think they were amazing in the regular season every year.

I was going to guess Spurs dynasty.

Stockton-malone might be pretty high on the list, too

I don't know Magic's Lakers well enough but there's probably someone else from those teams that's up there. Someone who was like only on those teams, or was on a mix of those plus some other awesome teams. But Kareem wouldn't be because he played so long there were down years I know in MIL and I think in LA that would balance it out a bit. Whereas Duncan probably won 55+ games like 15/20 years?

Michael Cooper comes in at #3. Kareem is at #14.

The Spurs big 3 are #4 (Ginobili) #5 (Duncan) & #8 (Parker). I think Parker had a season or two on some teams that didn't make the playoffs before he retired.

#1 & #2 are HOF's with multiple MVP's.

#1 or 2 has to be Magic then from my original post right? If Cooper and Kareem are on there?

Does that mean Bird is up there too? I suppose with a short career he did still get to 820 (13 years? but he was hurt some - I didn't think he'd be at the minimum)

 

[Jayrod]

I thought it was interesting that Pippen has a better win% than MJ.

 

[Jayrod]

Does that mean Bird is up there too? I suppose with a short career he did still get to 820 (13 years? but he was hurt some - I didn't think he'd be at the minimum)

Bird is #2

 

[Instinctive]

I thought it was interesting that Pippen has a better win% than MJ.

I actually "knew" or at least suspected that, but didn't think either would make the list.

MJ early years pre-Pippen were like good not great teams and then the Wizards were bad. Pippen had all great Bulls teams, the Jordan hiatus, and then pretty good Rockets and Blazers teams i think?

 

[the moops]

Kawhi makes a ton of sense too. But some of these Clippers seasons may drag him down? Maybe he's still up there.

He's the exact archetype I'm trying to think for this, which is "amazing player who was drafted into a team that was already awesome" and didn't have any major down years.

Was thinking about Klay maybe too - like their bad year(s) he was out so maybe his win % was protected?

Honestly...Harden?

Kawhi has a very high %, but hasn't played in 820 games yet. He's #5 if you drop the threshold down to 650 games.

If you add his playoff games in he has played the requisite amount

 

[Jayrod]

Pippen is at #14 on the 850+ games list and MJ is at #22.

Rodman at #9 is kind of surprising until you think about the teams he played on (Pistons-Bulls-Spurs)

 

[Jayrod]

Kawhi makes a ton of sense too. But some of these Clippers seasons may drag him down? Maybe he's still up there.

He's the exact archetype I'm trying to think for this, which is "amazing player who was drafted into a team that was already awesome" and didn't have any major down years.

Was thinking about Klay maybe too - like their bad year(s) he was out so maybe his win % was protected?

Honestly...Harden?

Kawhi has a very high %, but hasn't played in 820 games yet. He's #5 if you drop the threshold down to 650 games.

If you add his playoff games in he has played the requisite amount

Interesting look when including playoffs as the list shifts a bit.

Top 10 are:
1. Magic
2. Michael Cooper
3. Bird
4. Kawhi
5. Sam Jones
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Ginobili
9. Rodman
10. Parker

 

[NewlyRetired]

Great stats @Jayrod !!

Is there something specific about the 820 game cut off or was that chosen to kind of represent 10 seasons?

 

[the moops]

Great stats @Jayrod !!

Is there something specific about the 820 game cut off or was that chosen to kind of represent 10 seasons?

Yea 820 does seem pretty arbitrary. 10 full seasons would be more like 750 games anyway with guys missing time

 

[dgreen]

NBA needs relegation. Washington should be booted to the G league or something - they are so bad

They've mostly rolled out a G league lineup the last two games. Their typical starting lineup recently had been Jones, Bilal, Kuz, Deni, and Bagley. All five are out. Of course, they weren't winning with those 5, so your point still stands.

 

[Jayrod]

Great stats @Jayrod !!

Is there something specific about the 820 game cut off or was that chosen to kind of represent 10 seasons?

It was basically the 10 full seasons concept. Originally I was looking at 1,000+ games, but realized a lot of great players didn't make the cut and I had to drop it below 900 to include Bird.

 

[Jayrod]

Great stats @Jayrod !!

Is there something specific about the 820 game cut off or was that chosen to kind of represent 10 seasons?

Yea 820 does seem pretty arbitrary. 10 full seasons would be more like 750 games anyway with guys missing time

After dropping it to 750, the first new name to show up is Bobby Jones at #18.

 

[Kev4029]

Great stats @Jayrod !!

Is there something specific about the 820 game cut off or was that chosen to kind of represent 10 seasons?

It was basically the 10 full seasons concept. Originally I was looking at 1,000+ games, but realized a lot of great players didn't make the cut and I had to drop it below 900 to include Bird.

Homer.

 

[Mister CIA]

Wembanyama is crazy. Holy cow. Although I will say he was out there a lot but he didn't do much last night. Just some insane plays out of nowhere, but overall felt very inconsistent. Off night.

There have been a couple of ebbs and flows since January, and this kind of feels like a second run-in with the rookie wall; but he's still good for a half-dozen highlights per episode.

What do y'all think of Trae Young? I'm convinced the Spurs will return ATL their 25 and 27 1st rounders (and give them their swap back in 26 too) for Young, and then the Hawks can tank properly. I look forward to Lob City (found in the crime-drama section).

 

[Instinctive]

Wembanyama is crazy. Holy cow. Although I will say he was out there a lot but he didn't do much last night. Just some insane plays out of nowhere, but overall felt very inconsistent. Off night.

There have been a couple of ebbs and flows since January, and this kind of feels like a second run-in with the rookie wall; but he's still good for a half-dozen highlights per episode.

What do y'all think of Trae Young? I'm convinced the Spurs will return ATL their 25 and 27 1st rounders (and give them their swap back in 26 too) for Young, and then the Hawks can tank properly. I look forward to Lob City (found in the crime-drama section).

I think if you want to win it is unlikely that putting Trae Young on your team is the most effective way to do it.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Wembanyama would be great for Trae Young. He'd help cover up the defensive shortcomings and they'd make a monstrous PnR combo.

That said, it's not like there's a shortage of players who would thrive playing next to a 7'4 space alien.

 

[Kev4029]

Wembanyama would be great for Trae Young. He'd help cover up the defensive shortcomings and they'd make a monstrous PnR combo.

That said, it's not like there's a shortage of players who would thrive playing next to a 7'4 space alien.

Young would be a nice guy low-ish candidate for the Hawks and the Spurs are the ideal team for Atlanta as well as they could toss them back their own two 25 and 27 first rounders.

 

[Encyclopedia Brown]

The WiFi password at the Delta Center: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GJIFNhdaQAA2yYz?format=jpg&name=large

That's a twenty-five year grudge.

 

[Yo Mama]

Harden has really improved his defensive effort this year . . . on both ends of the court.

https://x.com/thehoopcentral/status/1770658843699380641?s=46&t=y6cC9YGHSWmPAqN66itfRA

 

[Moe.]

What was he doing?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What was he doing?

Glitch in the matrix. Would be a little more understandable if he wasn’t the one who passed him the ball!!

 

[Zow]

What was he doing?

It’s harden, so who knows, but I assume he was being silly since they were up 21?

Kawhi didn’t really react so maybe it’s something he does in practice.

 

[msudaisy26]

Harden has really improved his defensive effort this year . . . on both ends of the court.

https://x.com/thehoopcentral/status/1770658843699380641?s=46&t=y6cC9YGHSWmPAqN66itfRA

Clippers players had a 100 dollar gift card to a strip club to the player that contested the most jump shots. Harden was tied for the lead before that shot.

 

[Frostillicus]

I agree, Magic is the best player ever.

 

[the moops]

So pulling for the Rockets to make a strong push for the 9/10 seed. I think Udoka is kind of a ****, but he's a real good coach and he has this team playing real hard. A Lakers/Rockets play in with Warriors heading home sounds glorious

 

[Instinctive]

Mavs taking care of business since that little skid. Plus Sac losing to Washington tonight.

If Dallas takes both games in Sactown next week they control the six seed.

 

[msudaisy26]

We should all get credit fid the Wizards win tonight. We motivated the **** out of that team.

 

[thecatch]

I hate basketball

 

[Long Ball Larry]

I hate basketball

Aren’t those both your teams though? Win-win?

 

[Capella]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

 

[thecatch]

I hate basketball

Aren’t those both your teams though? Win-win?

I have a fondness for the Wizards having gone to a million of their games but thankfully I only have one terrible franchise I actively root for.

 

[Kev4029]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

If Suggs' shooting is real, that really opens up possibilities for them. They need a second starting guard that can shoot (Harris isn't prolific enough, Fultz just isn't that), and with the rest of their defensive personnel, they can sacrifice some defense to get a high end offensive player. They have an extra 1st rounder in 2025 from Denver, a mediocre pick swap in 2026, and 5 extra 2nds with nothing outgoing (other than potential swaps which can only help them).

 

[Kev4029]

The only mvp in the league is Jokic. Nobody is close to him.

I think SGA is in the conversation.

Agreed.

Tier 1 - Jokic, SGA
Tier 2 - Giannis, Luka
Tier 3 - Kawhi, Tatum, Haliburton (likely to miss the games played mark though)
Tier 4 - KD, Brunson, Mitchell

It amazes how many people are overlooking Edwards. He's been leading that team to the best record in the West which is hella impressive after last season. Tier 2 IMO.

I love Ant. Think he is awesome. He is still too inefficient though. 58.9 TS% is just not good enough. It is by far the lowest of any dudes I mentioned

Jokic 65.0%
SGA 65.3%
Doncic 62.9%
Giannis 65.7%
Kawhi 63.9%
Tatum 61.0%

I'll take a little inefficiency for best record in the West. He's asked to do a lot more than for his team than Tatum or Kawhi.

On that note, I got curious after this little winning streak of Denver's...

Of playoff teams/contenders in the West here is the remaining SOS:

1. PHX .583
2. LAL .529
3. LAC .526
4. MIN .509
5. NOP .509
6. OKC .504
7. SAC .502
8. DEN .491
9. GS .480
10. DAL .479

• Denver is 0.5 games back of Minnesota, tied with OKC (although OKC has the higher win%), and 2.5 games ahead of LAC.
• Denver only has one more back-to-back left on their schedule - @ the Jazz, vs the TWolves, the TWolves are also on B2B, coming from Washington. The TWolves and OKC have 4 B2Bs, LAC has 6.
• The only team with fewer games remaining (21) are the Lakers (20), and the only other team with 21 games remaining is New Orleans.
• The only team with more games at home remaining (13) are the Kings (15).
• Of the Nuggets remaining 8 road games, 4 are against the Grizz/Spurs/Jazz/Blazers. AND the Nuggets play 3 more games against the TWolves, 2 of which are at home.
• They end the season with 5/7 teams that will be tanking their asses off (Grizz/Spurs x 2/Jazz/Hawks).

I would set the O/U on expected wins for the Nuggets to close out the final 21 games at probably 16 (58-24 final record). I don't know if it is possible to bet on the #1 regular season seed, but I think the Nuggets should be heavy favorites and it doesn't look like any of the projection systems agree.

Just a little update on this....

Since the All-Star break, the Nuggets are 13-2 with a +10.1 net rating - one loss was the buzzer beater on the road vs the Mavs, the other was OT at home vs the Suns. I did find a place to bet on the Nuggets being essentially the #1 seed (division winner over OKC and Minn) back when I wrote this up last time. They were +145, they are now -290.

Porter Jr is averaging 21.1 & 7.3 on .567/.439/.909 shooting splits since the AS break and Murray is averaging 22.21/4.6/7.3 on .492/.448/.870 splits.

Going forward:

• They have the second easiest schedule in the NBA, next to Boston. The Thunder have the 6th most difficult schedule.
• They have 7 home games to 5 road games. Those 4/5 of the road games are against Portland, Utah, San Antonio, and Memphis (the other game is LAC on LAC's first leg of a B2B). Still only one B2B game left.
• That LAC game is likely to be the only game the rest of the year that they won't be favored by at least 5 points, and 7 of the 12 they will probably be favored by more than 10 points if the #1 seed is still in play.
• The Thunder have 14 games left, 8 of which are road games (all 8 in the next 10 games/16 days). Still have 3 B2Bs (@NOP/v HOU, @PHI/@bos, v SAC/ v SAS).

The first seed, pending an injury to Jokic, is nearly an inevitability at this point.

 

[Capella]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

If Suggs' shooting is real, that really opens up possibilities for them. They need a second starting guard that can shoot (Harris isn't prolific enough, Fultz just isn't that), and with the rest of their defensive personnel, they can sacrifice some defense to get a high end offensive player. They have an extra 1st rounder in 2025 from Denver, a mediocre pick swap in 2026, and 5 extra 2nds with nothing outgoing (other than potential swaps which can only help them).

A lot of Magic Reddit wants Monk from Sacramento next year. Seems to fit the low defense/high offense mold. They’re in really good shape for the future, it’s really exciting.

 

[thecatch]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

If Suggs' shooting is real, that really opens up possibilities for them. They need a second starting guard that can shoot (Harris isn't prolific enough, Fultz just isn't that), and with the rest of their defensive personnel, they can sacrifice some defense to get a high end offensive player. They have an extra 1st rounder in 2025 from Denver, a mediocre pick swap in 2026, and 5 extra 2nds with nothing outgoing (other than potential swaps which can only help them).

A lot of Magic Reddit wants Monk from Sacramento next year. Seems to fit the low defense/high offense mold. They’re in really good shape for the future, it’s really exciting.

The Spurs should make a play for him, he’d be fun as heck throwing lobs for Wemby.

 

[the moops]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

If Suggs' shooting is real, that really opens up possibilities for them. They need a second starting guard that can shoot (Harris isn't prolific enough, Fultz just isn't that), and with the rest of their defensive personnel, they can sacrifice some defense to get a high end offensive player. They have an extra 1st rounder in 2025 from Denver, a mediocre pick swap in 2026, and 5 extra 2nds with nothing outgoing (other than potential swaps which can only help them).

A lot of Magic Reddit wants Monk from Sacramento next year. Seems to fit the low defense/high offense mold. They’re in really good shape for the future, it’s really exciting.

They should shoot way higher than Malik Monk

 

[Long Ball Larry]

The Orlando Magic are really really good.

If Suggs' shooting is real, that really opens up possibilities for them. They need a second starting guard that can shoot (Harris isn't prolific enough, Fultz just isn't that), and with the rest of their defensive personnel, they can sacrifice some defense to get a high end offensive player. They have an extra 1st rounder in 2025 from Denver, a mediocre pick swap in 2026, and 5 extra 2nds with nothing outgoing (other than potential swaps which can only help them).

A lot of Magic Reddit wants Monk from Sacramento next year. Seems to fit the low defense/high offense mold. They’re in really good shape for the future, it’s really exciting.

They should shoot way higher than Malik Monk

I’m sure they would like to, but what other free agent will realistically go there? Their biggest need is a shooter/scorer

 

[the moops]

I’m sure they would like to, but what other free agent will realistically go there? Their biggest need is a shooter/scorer

Well, it doesn't need to be a free agent. They have an extra first in 2025 to send and all their own, so they could trade for someone. It just feels as if your big move is Malik Monk, that is underwhelming. He is a very good player, not knocking him, but does he move the needle much at all?