2023 College football thread - That's A Wrap (7 Viewers)

[Osaurus]

Lol

 

[nysfl2]

Can he watch the game from home on TV and be on the phone with the OC and DC throughout the game? This seems like a compromise that will make nobody happy.

 

[Capella]

Jim Harbaugh finds out he is suspended during in-flight airing of Ant-Man 3

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

If you are found guilty of cheating, I thought you forfeit all the games played under said cheating.

Ala the Michigan Fab Five

 

[Peak]

If you are found guilty of cheating, I thought you forfeit all the games played under said cheating.

I think we'll see more of that type of punishment when the NCAA posts their findings/ruling. They will vacate/forfeit games played during the "cheating" window. B1G can only really offer suspensions or fines, based on their sportsmanship policy.

 

[Peak]

Harbaugh does not call the plays on offense or defense.

I guess it would matter on 4th down plays to go or not go. So basically he is the HC during the week and turns it over on game day like most HCs who are not the OCs do.

Based on the video clips and articles over the last couple of weeks, Stalions interacted more with the coordinators than he did with Harbaugh. An argument could be made that the B1G suspended the wrong person in Harbaugh and should've suspended Minter and Moore.

 

[The Commish]

Read Michigan's full response to the Big Ten as conference mulls punishment for Jim Harbaugh, football team

This link and "So far UoM hasn't said anything more than "we didn't know" " are not compatible thoughts. Appreciate the link though...feels like a lawsuit is coming. We'll see. The level of "evidence" here should have a few programs pretty nervous about their near future if the conference is really interested in tamping down on this stuff. We'll see shortly if this is really about "sportsmanship" or not.

 

[Capella]

https://x.com/slmandel/status/1723088117383725283?s=46&t=ICx5zgfs3tFXUezBjAIfQQ

All these wins will be vacated anyways.

 

[Peak]

Not sure how this got out, but it's out there - letter from B1G to UoM on the punishment and their response to UoM's response. Very detailed and worth the read, or at least quick perusal.

Evidence presented to UoM that was received by B1G from NCAA - which does contradict what UoM said they received in their letter to the B1G. It's quite a list that they have, which also includes information provided to the NCAA from the SEC President:

On October 18, the President of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (the “NCAA”), Charlie Baker, scheduled a call with me, other senior leadership from the Conference, and senior leadership from the University. During that call, the NCAA disclosed to both the Conference and the University that it had received highly credible evidence of a wide-ranging, multi-year in-person, off campus scouting scheme orchestrated by a noncoaching staff member of the University’s football program.

the NCAA stated and believed that the disclosure was necessary due to the unprecedented scope of the then-alleged scheme, and because of the significant impact the impermissible scheme could have on competition during the current football season. It was also extraordinary that the NCAA President arranged for and participated in the call, underscoring not only the severity of the allegations but the immediate impacts. All of these circumstances were a clear statement from the NCAA that the nature and reliability of the evidence they had received indicated that the improper scheme relating to the University’s football team was ongoing and created a substantial risk of compromising the integrity of football competitions this season

The NCAA Shares with the Conference the Master Spreadsheet Detailing the Extensive In-Person Sign-Stealing Activities:
- a large and detailed chart listing the names of various individuals assigned to attend past and future football games involving the University’s scheduled football opponents;
- similar in-person attendance assignments for past and future games involving highly ranked, non-Conference football opponents (presumably potential University football opponents in post-season games);
- notations showing whether in-person attendance at non-Conference games would be necessary depending on different win/loss scenarios
- the 2023 game schedules of the University’s scheduled football opponents
- color-coding to reflect past games actually attended by assigned individuals and future games for which individual assignments were still needed
- the names of individuals assigned to certain cities and locations
- monetary amounts associated with certain assigned games.

A separate worksheet within that Master Spreadsheet showed narrative translations of signs and signals that corresponded to specific team formations and plays. The name of the University staff member alleged to have orchestrated the scheme was prevalent in the Master Spreadsheet.

The Conference also reviewed photos and videos from the public domain (and thus available to the University) that show the staff member dressed similarly to University coaches standing adjacent to and communicating with coaches during games in timeframes in which the impermissible scheme occurred.

 

[Da Guru]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

 

[The Commish]

Yeah...if spreadsheets is all it takes, there are some other schools in the conference that should be concerned. Well, if this is about "sportsmanship" anyway.

This pretty much sums up the state of affairs in what is objective:

the staff member participated in and coordinated a vast off-campus, in-person advance scouting scheme involving a network of individuals;
• he purchased and forwarded tickets for games involving future University football opponents, and the tickets were for seats strategically located for stealing the future opponents signs;
• he and others acting at his direction video recorded signs used by future University opponents while attending the opponents’ games in person;
• information, including videos of future opponents’ signs, was delivered back to the staff member by those who had attended the games and taken the videos at his direction; and
• during the time in question, including through the University’s seventh game of the2023 season, the staff member was present on the University’s sidelines, dressed similarly to University coaches, in close proximity to University coaches, and he communicated directly with such coaches.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

https://twitter.com/ESPNRittenberg/status/1723082184934780967?t=gEYymQp6TchQX4f4qXhvOg&s=19

 

[The Commish]

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

 

[Tom Servo]

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

The “evidence” as you call it is quite extensive. The fact that the scheme is called PROVEN and INCONTROVERTIBLE means the jig is up.
Take your L and like it.

 

[Mookie Gizzy]

Bet

 

[Peak]

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

There's plenty out there to find if you know how to use Google. If you need the NCAA to hand feed you videos and people's names and addresses so you can thoroughly follow up to vett what they claim to be evidence, keep waiting.
But even with the above listed, it's enough for NCAA to take action and seek it illegal and B1G to deem it unsportsmanlike.

 

[massraider]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

That, and Jim Harbaugh's seemingly unrelentless cheating

 

[massraider]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

That, and Jim Harbaugh's seemingly unrelentless cheating

With that kind of punishment, why not do it?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

That, and Jim Harbaugh's seemingly unrelentless cheating

With that kind of punishment, why not do it?

Guess I gotta agree.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

LOL

 

[The Gator]

LOL

 

[The Commish]

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

The “evidence” as you call it is quite extensive. The fact that the scheme is called PROVEN and INCONTROVERTIBLE means the jig is up.
Take your L and like it.

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

There's plenty out there to find if you know how to use Google. If you need the NCAA to hand feed you videos and people's names and addresses so you can thoroughly follow up to vett what they claim to be evidence, keep waiting.
But even with the above listed, it's enough for NCAA to take action and seek it illegal and B1G to deem it unsportsmanlike.

Its unsurprising that you guys either missed or ignored the point

 

[Peak]

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

The “evidence” as you call it is quite extensive. The fact that the scheme is called PROVEN and INCONTROVERTIBLE means the jig is up.
Take your L and like it.

There is no mention of video of people videoing the signs etc. Still waiting to see that. In the bullet points above, it says they can prove the people taking the videos delivered back to the staff member those videos, but that evidence hasn't been presented either. Curious how they go about proving that. Right now it's a spreadsheet they have with some circumstantial pictures taken. And yes, I know this isn't a court of law. It's merely interesting to see how they use their "evidence" in setting precedent.

There's plenty out there to find if you know how to use Google. If you need the NCAA to hand feed you videos and people's names and addresses so you can thoroughly follow up to vett what they claim to be evidence, keep waiting.
But even with the above listed, it's enough for NCAA to take action and seek it illegal and B1G to deem it unsportsmanlike.

Its unsurprising that you guys either missed or ignored the point

Then please enlighten us. You said you were still waiting to see the evidence of people videoing the signs. It's out there. It was even presented to the UoM president and staff, per the NCAA and the B1G. You say it's just a spreadsheet, but if you even read what I posted from the B1G letter, or even the letter you'll know what they have presented to UoM.

It sounds to me like you're being obtuse on purpose.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

I feel like any pure sport associated with college football died long ago.

 

[The Commish]

Then please enlighten us. You said you were still waiting to see the evidence of people videoing the signs. It's out there. It was even presented to the UoM president and staff, per the NCAA and the B1G. You say it's just a spreadsheet, but if you even read what I posted from the B1G letter, or even the letter you'll know what they have presented to UoM.

It sounds to me like you're being obtuse on purpose.

I read it all. It all comes back to the spreadsheet. You didn't notice that? I get its MULTIPLE TABS in a spreadsheet as if that matters. There are LOTS of videos out there alleging themselves as something they aren't. I mean, we had a "joke" video posted here as "evidence" soooooo. I wanted to see which one(s) they provided Michigan. This isn't complicated. And of course, none of THAT has anything to do with my wondering about precedent and if this is really about cheating. We'll see if it really is based on the actions/inactions by the B1G in the next few weeks or if they are going to hide behind "degrees" of cheating like the NCAA seems to be preparing to do.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Then please enlighten us. You said you were still waiting to see the evidence of people videoing the signs. It's out there. It was even presented to the UoM president and staff, per the NCAA and the B1G. You say it's just a spreadsheet, but if you even read what I posted from the B1G letter, or even the letter you'll know what they have presented to UoM.

It sounds to me like you're being obtuse on purpose.

I read it all. It all comes back to the spreadsheet. You didn't notice that? I get its MULTIPLE TABS in a spreadsheet as if that matters. There are LOTS of videos out there alleging themselves as something they aren't. I mean, we had a "joke" video posted here as "evidence" soooooo. I wanted to see which one(s) they provided Michigan. This isn't complicated. And of course, none of THAT has anything to do with my wondering about precedent and if this is really about cheating. We'll see if it really is based on the actions/inactions by the B1G in the next few weeks or if they are going to hide behind "degrees" of cheating like the NCAA seems to be preparing to do.

I bet you need to see video of OJ murdering Ron and Nicole to believe it

 

[3C's]

LOL

Would have been better with a goatee and sunglasses.

 

[3C's]

Then please enlighten us. You said you were still waiting to see the evidence of people videoing the signs. It's out there. It was even presented to the UoM president and staff, per the NCAA and the B1G. You say it's just a spreadsheet, but if you even read what I posted from the B1G letter, or even the letter you'll know what they have presented to UoM.

It sounds to me like you're being obtuse on purpose.

I read it all. It all comes back to the spreadsheet. You didn't notice that? I get its MULTIPLE TABS in a spreadsheet as if that matters. There are LOTS of videos out there alleging themselves as something they aren't. I mean, we had a "joke" video posted here as "evidence" soooooo. I wanted to see which one(s) they provided Michigan. This isn't complicated. And of course, none of THAT has anything to do with my wondering about precedent and if this is really about cheating. We'll see if it really is based on the actions/inactions by the B1G in the next few weeks or if they are going to hide behind "degrees" of cheating like the NCAA seems to be preparing to do.

I bet you need to see video of OJ murdering Ron and Nicole to believe it

The gloves don't fit.

 

[Moe.]

I mean he is correct in that it doesn’t specifically mention video of Stalions or his minions filming the opposing sideline from the seats. Personally I think the fact that he was on the Michigan sideline next to the appropriate coordinator is pretty damning. That could still mean Stalions was just a rogue actor who lied to everyone and positioned himself as some sort of sign-stealing savant, and then Michigan/Harbaugh didn’t do enough to vet that. That would be best-case scenario from a UM perspective. I think it’s pretty clear at this point they have additional evidence that probably disproves the rogue actor theory to some degree, otherwise they wouldn’t be pursuing it this aggressively.

Did they make an official announcement about headsets in helmets? I think it’s time to wrap this thing up and move on personally, but it’s just been so hilarious

 

[Tom Servo]

Then please enlighten us. You said you were still waiting to see the evidence of people videoing the signs. It's out there. It was even presented to the UoM president and staff, per the NCAA and the B1G. You say it's just a spreadsheet, but if you even read what I posted from the B1G letter, or even the letter you'll know what they have presented to UoM.

It sounds to me like you're being obtuse on purpose.

I read it all. It all comes back to the spreadsheet. You didn't notice that? I get its MULTIPLE TABS in a spreadsheet as if that matters. There are LOTS of videos out there alleging themselves as something they aren't. I mean, we had a "joke" video posted here as "evidence" soooooo. I wanted to see which one(s) they provided Michigan. This isn't complicated. And of course, none of THAT has anything to do with my wondering about precedent and if this is really about cheating. We'll see if it really is based on the actions/inactions by the B1G in the next few weeks or if they are going to hide behind "degrees" of cheating like the NCAA seems to be preparing to do.

I bet you need to see video of OJ murdering Ron and Nicole to believe it

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

What's with the line about compromising player safety? I get that sign stealing can give you an unfair advantage, but how does it make anyone less safe?

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

What's with the line about compromising player safety? I get that sign stealing can give you an unfair advantage, but how does it make anyone less safe?

If one team knows where the other team or player is going to be, they can get there early and make a big hit. Like a crossing route that a safety knows is coming.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

LOL

LOL

 

[gump]

What's with the line about compromising player safety? I get that sign stealing can give you an unfair advantage, but how does it make anyone less safe?

Matt Rhule

 

[culdeus]

This week in college football:

Jim Harbaugh suspended for 3 games.
Shaduer Sanders Rolld Royce got booted on campus
Coach Prime said he likes when his players fight in practice.
Lane Kiffen and Ole Miss getting sued by calling player a pansy because he wants mental health days off.


Are there any games being played this weekend??

They were right. NIL has cheapened the pure sport of college football

Nil was just the end. It's been melting down since SMU got the death penalty.

 

[culdeus]

What's with the line about compromising player safety? I get that sign stealing can give you an unfair advantage, but how does it make anyone less safe?

Matt Rhule

How did I miss him going to Nebraska to be forgotten for all time?

 

[Peak]

I mean he is correct in that it doesn’t specifically mention video of Stalions or his minions filming the opposing sideline from the seats. Personally I think the fact that he was on the Michigan sideline next to the appropriate coordinator is pretty damning. That could still mean Stalions was just a rogue actor who lied to everyone and positioned himself as some sort of sign-stealing savant, and then Michigan/Harbaugh didn’t do enough to vet that. That would be best-case scenario from a UM perspective. I think it’s pretty clear at this point they have additional evidence that probably disproves the rogue actor theory to some degree, otherwise they wouldn’t be pursuing it this aggressively.

Did they make an official announcement about headsets in helmets? I think it’s time to wrap this thing up and move on personally, but it’s just been so hilarious

From the B1G document on evidence provided to the "University" by the "Conference" and the NCAA:

The NCAA Shares with the Conference the Evidence It Had Shared with the University, In Light of the University’s Statement That It had Not Reviewed“ Almost Any of the Evidence.” Given the University’s statement that evidence was scant and the Conference’s assertions unsupported, the Conference made affirmative efforts to verify the University’s prior knowledge of and access to relevant evidence. Accordingly, pursuant to the mandatory cooperation provisions in the Sportsmanship Policy, the Conference requested the University’s consent to allow the Conference to obtain from the NCAA all documents and information that the NCAA had made available to the University in connection with the investigation into the impermissible scheme. The University initially refused to provide such consent, citing confidentiality provisions in the NCAA’s bylaws. The University also asserted that “[h]istorically, the NCAA, to our knowledge, has not permitted disclosure.” The Conference promptly obtained written confirmation from the NCAA that it did not object to providing such documents and information upon receiving the University’s consent. The University ultimately provided its consent after receiving this written confirmation from the NCAA. This additional evidence, including recorded interviews, photos, videos, and other documentation that had previously been provided to the University, confirms what the evidence8already reviewed by the Conference makes clear: the University football team staff member engaged in an organized and extensive in-person, off campus advance scouting scheme, and that the staff member was in close communications with at least some of the coaches on the University’s football team. This evidence also revealed significant new information from interviews that the University attended, information that is covered by confidentiality under the NCAA’s rules so as not discussed further here.

So the NCAA sent UoM videos, photos, recorded interviews of those who participated in the recordings, including interviews of UoM staff that was gathered during an on-site interview last week. The NCAA identified Stalions with the University. They asked the University about him, which then prompted the University to suspend him. It's all in the document I posted above. It's not like I'm perusing Twitter/X to find heresay, or visiting message boards to post opinions as facts. It's literally all in the Conference documentation. I really don't get the "no evidence" stance when both the B1G and NCAA have identified it, listed it, and shared it with the University.

 

[Peak]

I think they are absolutely going to file for a lawsuit and get a TRO. Yes.

So the TRO was submitted within an hour or so of the B1G punishment. Just read that the assigned judge is also a MI alum and lecturer at the University. I'm assuming he will recuse himself from the case due to conflict of interest. Another judge issued tomorrow? What's the timeline on something like this? Would sides need to be heard? Will Harbaugh show up on the sidelines tomorrow before the two sides meet with the judge?

I haven't watched enough Suits episodes to fully understand this stuff. I'm only a couple episodes into it.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Now the case is in front of a different judge. A woman with a degree from UM.

https://x.com/DanWetzel/status/1723178789138522465?s=20

 

[Moe.]

@Peak I’m not disagreeing with you at all.

 

[Capella]

Michigan is playing a two-game schedule this year. Everything else aside, it is extremely funny this happened the night before one of those two games. Only would’ve been better the day before OSU.

 

[Phil Elliott]

What's with the line about compromising player safety? I get that sign stealing can give you an unfair advantage, but how does it make anyone less safe?

Matt Rhule

How did I miss him going to Nebraska to be forgotten for all time?

I think the answer is in your question.

 

[AAABatteries]

Michigan is playing a two-game schedule this year. Everything else aside, it is extremely funny this happened the night before one of those two games. Only would’ve been better the day before OSU.

When I first saw it was 3 games I thought maybe they had four games left and he’d be back for OSU - would have been fun to watch both fan bases melt down.

 

[Tecumseh]

@Doctor Detroit must be absolutely losing his mind

 

[The Commish]

I mean he is correct in that it doesn’t specifically mention video of Stalions or his minions filming the opposing sideline from the seats. Personally I think the fact that he was on the Michigan sideline next to the appropriate coordinator is pretty damning. That could still mean Stalions was just a rogue actor who lied to everyone and positioned himself as some sort of sign-stealing savant, and then Michigan/Harbaugh didn’t do enough to vet that. That would be best-case scenario from a UM perspective. I think it’s pretty clear at this point they have additional evidence that probably disproves the rogue actor theory to some degree, otherwise they wouldn’t be pursuing it this aggressively.

Did they make an official announcement about headsets in helmets? I think it’s time to wrap this thing up and move on personally, but it’s just been so hilarious

Thank you. I don't question, at all, what has been presented to the school. I'm simply asking to see it. That's all. People want to bend themselves into knots making it more than what it is.

 

[tri-man 47]

Michigan lifelong fan here. :sigh: Have we really gone from Schembechler’s “The team, the team, the team” to Harbaugh’s “The signs, the signs, the signs”?

 

[ChiefD]

So, can Penn State win this game with all this chaos? They are +170 on the money line. Thinking about betting that today.

 

[GroveDiesel]

So, can Penn State win this game with all this chaos? They are +170 on the money line. Thinking about betting that today.

No

 

[Summer Wheat]

So, can Penn State win this game with all this chaos? They are +170 on the money line. Thinking about betting that today.

I think they did PSU a disservice by waiting until the day before the game and after Michigan's plane departed. I liked PSU all week until now. I think Michigan plays with more intensity than if Harbaugh was there..wait he is there but not on sidelines.

BIG commish screwed up and should have done this days ago so Harbaugh did not travel with team. I