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2023 Philadelphia Eagles - Complete waste of a season finally comes to an end. (9 Viewers)
- Thread starter The Noid
- Start date
rockaction
Footballguy
OOOOOOF. That's awful. I knew he was stealing from state welfare funds and ****, which was bad enough -- and it shouldn't get worse -- but from kids' charities? Argh that makes me even madder.
Interesting take considering he had significant traction for MVP just this past year
especially since it completely ignores the metrics and focuses only on the TOTALS...which are clearly skewed by the tremendous rushing numbers. Just a bad argument all around.
There aren't more then 4 or 5 guys I'd want ahead of Hurts today, but there are 4 or 5 more I could see someone being more comfortable with today. That said, doesn't putting him in the 8-10 area (with upside!) make him more then a simple "system QB"?
I don't know y'all...the Hurts arguments are just strange to me. If you rank him 8 or 9 I don't have a significant problem with that even if I disagree.....and the guys in here knocking him admit he's in that area. It isn't the specific ranking but the verbiage used I guess. Do you think the 9th or 10th best QB isn't good enough? That NOBODY under #6 or 7 will ever be more then a system QB? It isn't the specific ranking that seems bizarre but the value you place on it and the confidence you have that it will never be better.
FWIW, I have only 3 or 4 guys clearly ahead and a couple more in a similar ranking, but also see upside....his passing DRAMATICALLY improved between years 2 and 3 and with his work ethic is absurd to think he can't get better still!
FWIW, I have only 3 or 4 guys clearly ahead and a couple more in a similar ranking, but also see upside....his passing DRAMATICALLY improved between years 2 and 3 and with his work ethic is absurd to think he can't get better still!
The Noid
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Think it was the same thing. The funds were for welfare and some kid-specific programs.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Yeah the "system" thing is weird to me. Aren't all QBs playing within their system? Yes, Hurts can do a lot with his legs IN ADDITION to what he can do with his arm. The Eagles have done a great job of tailoring their system to match his skills. But you couldn't ask a QB like Burrow to play within the same system Hurts excels in.
IMO, that just makes Hurts more versatile and dangerous. Not only can he throw for 300+ if needed, he can run for over 100. Yeah, that's the system he can play.
You're always the voice of reason in here, but to answer your question, he digs in and will never admit to being wrong. He still thinks Micah Parsons is terrible because he predicted it 2 years ago.Genuinely curious: As an Eagles fan, how do you reconcile this? The guy just had one of the best seasons in franchise history, set team records, NFL records, delivered the league's best record, took them to the Super Bowl and, outside of one mistake, played great and was a key reason they came close to winning it. He has the earned reputation as a fantastic leader and dedicated, hard-working person extremely focused on doing everything necessary to make himself better. And he just signed a team-friendly deal to put the Eagles in the best position possible to build a competitive team for the next few years,
If he had a domestic assault history, a massage therapist scandal, or got caught stealing money from a kids charity, I could understand being conflicted about the player or outright not wanting to root for him or enjoy his success. If you were signing his paycheck, I could see being upset with the money he's getting paid.
If his play falls off a cliff and he never looks like a legitimate starting NFL QB again, ok, then you could crow all day about the reservations you had and me and a million other Eagles fans would be right there with you in not being a Hurts fan. But, in the here and now, he's checking off every single box a fan would want from their team's star player. There isn't some part of you that can at least allow yourself to embrace him for doing that and enjoy the ride, instead of not liking him for something you think he may become or how he performed in college?
Maybe it's a personality thing or it's just how you're wired and since I'm not wired that way (I know you've been open about your diagnosis), it's just hard for me to grasp. But if that's just how you are, in all things, then you do you. Maybe you hear a great song from a new band or performer but don't let yourself enjoy it in case they wind up being a one-hit wonder or have a bad follow-up album. Or, you have a great steak dinner but because it was cooked sous vide instead of reverse-seared (in your opinion, the "right" way to cook a steak), you have to knock the Yelp review down 2 stars. But, I hope there are plenty of other things you're able to be less rigid about and occasionally get opened to new or different joys that are out there, too. And, maybe one day, Jalen Hurts will be one of them for you
I hated the Hurts pick and really didn't think he'd ever be a starting caliber qb... I was dead wrong. Why is that so darn hard to say for some people?
It's pretty clear that NOTHING he could do would get praise from a certain few posters. He had one of the best QB seasons in years, and people still don't want to give him credit. I'm willing to bet anything that if we win the SB next year (we probably won't), a few people still wouldn't say "ok I was wrong, he's great".It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?Lawrence?
Cousins?
Come on now. That's not a real opinion. That's just a **** post.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
The Noid
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The restructure happened a week or so ago and only got mentioned yesterday in some of the reporting about the Hurts contract It was probably more prep for the Hurts signing as things got close and making sure they have cap for the draft picks and the buffer they like going into the season with, or maybe another in-house extension (Reddick, Driscoll?)
babydemon90
Footballguy
Ah I dont know the details and am assuming. I could be off, so please don't take my offhand comment as a claim Favre is doing that lol. It's just what I thought it was referring to.
babydemon90
Footballguy
The only one I can see a team taking over Hurts now is Lawrence. I think he has the 'potential' to be better then Hurts, and he showed decent growth last year. But he's not there yet, and Hurts showed waaay more growth last year then Lawrence did. But Trevor has the tools if he take a big leap to be better - which isnt a knock on Hurts at all.It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?
Including Cousins though? oof.
Amused to Death
Footballguy
Weird how people are higher on Lawrence after one mediocre year but for MVP runner-up Hurts they need to see more.The only one I can see a team taking over Hurts now is Lawrence. I think he has the 'potential' to be better then Hurts, and he showed decent growth last year. But he's not there yet, and Hurts showed waaay more growth last year then Lawrence did. But Trevor has the tools if he take a big leap to be better - which isnt a knock on Hurts at all.It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?
Including Cousins though? oof.
JetMaxx
Footballguy
Gold
Insein
Footballguy
I think Lawrence has a very bright future and in 3 years could crack the top 5. But yea, he was above average this year which looked so amazing after the disaster of the first year.Weird how people are higher on Lawrence after one mediocre year but for MVP runner-up Hurts they need to see more.The only one I can see a team taking over Hurts now is Lawrence. I think he has the 'potential' to be better then Hurts, and he showed decent growth last year. But he's not there yet, and Hurts showed waaay more growth last year then Lawrence did. But Trevor has the tools if he take a big leap to be better - which isnt a knock on Hurts at all.It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?
Including Cousins though? oof.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
Jesus played QB?
The Hyperbole/Trolling/StrawMan/WhateverYouWannaCallIt is just insane. Even the fans pumping Jalen the most aren't even calling him the best QB in the NFL, yet ppl acting/arguing like we callin him jesus.
The Noid
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Details on the Mailata restructure: frees up $7.5M in cap for 2024 and again in 2025. No impact to 2023, so definitely done with the Hurts contract in mind.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
Trolls just love this thread because most of us Eagles fans can't let things go.
The full pages of back-and-forth bitching has me visiting here less often.
Terpman22
Footballguy
Yeah it was from a while back (2018?), considered minor. Nothing really to worry about it seems.
The Noid
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Looks like the Kenny Gainwell tickets are about to cash…
The Noid
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Or not! Gainwell on IG said he is not switching, even though Fanatics is selling #0 Gainwell jerseys.
The Noid
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Seems to make Quez redundant, maybe Quez gets moved for a later rounder in the draft?
Terpman22
Footballguy
Well, we don't have a whole lot of depth at WR in all honesty. Its Devonta/AJB/Quez then a bunch of other guys. This guy is a bit smaller though and a bit slower than Quez, so we shall see. I've heard rumblings we might have our eye on Jarvis Landry as well, who would be a real slot guy to have. Quez, despite all his flaws though, does bring that "take the top off a defense" element to the offence that opens a lot of other stuff up though. I'm down on him, but hoping he can improve. I don't see much trade value for him in all honesty.
jasvic
Footballguy
I'm fine with Quez as #4 and he gets a deep shot or 2 a game, but he showed last year he can't be relied upon for much more. He's young and can prove me wrong, but all those lazy routes he ran drove me crazy.
Not saying this will be the case, but seeing more form Lamar or Wentz is in play here.Weird how people are higher on Lawrence after one mediocre year but for MVP runner-up Hurts they need to see more.The only one I can see a team taking over Hurts now is Lawrence. I think he has the 'potential' to be better then Hurts, and he showed decent growth last year. But he's not there yet, and Hurts showed waaay more growth last year then Lawrence did. But Trevor has the tools if he take a big leap to be better - which isnt a knock on Hurts at all.It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?
Including Cousins though? oof.
DJackson10
Footballguy
I care about consistently scoring and it really concerned me because we didn't play many great offenses. We got bit in the *** during the SB. Instead of kicking the FG we should've went for it. We also lost the the Turnover battle in the game. I even said before the game I was worried about our 2nd half defense and offense struggles this year and both bit us when it mattered most. 11 PTS in the 2nd half had a 10PT swing off of the fumble and Sanders almost coughed it up to start the 2nd half.
Like I said I get it, easier to dismiss when you score highest Point total and just say the Defense should do better. We also have to look at the quality of opponents we faced too.
DJackson10
Footballguy
First I've never said I don't like him on an off the field level. He's great. I just don't like the type of style of QB. seen plenty like him come in the league for yrs not do well. I think he's a guy that's a system QB nothing wrong with that until if we have a team decimated by injury like a few yrs ago I don't think he's going to do well. This isn't a knock as much as a fact I think we had a very easy schedule last year and path to the SB. I know a lot here don't like seeing that but I'm not going to sit here with Green colored glasses on and think everything was great. I already mentioned my 2nd half struggles so I won't harp on it here. We played Mahomes, Lawerence and DAK as the best QBs we faced last year. I wouldn't call any team defensively we played great. We shot ourselves in the foot the 2nd WAS game. The NFC as a whole this past season was pretty avg. I think we did a good job taking advantage of that but honestly we've downgraded in some key areas like Safety. Outside of Dean I got no idea who's playing LB. Half our DL is old. The offense is young but Kelce is probably gone after this season and Lane won't play much longer. I got faith in the OL. We got good receivers but lack depth but I think Zaccheus is an underrated signing who I suggested earlier in the offseason.
Again this isn't off the field it's personal preference of style of QB. Id much prefer a Burrow or Herbert or Big Ben type. Guys who have strong arms and throw in the pocket consistently but they have enough mobility to buy time or get a few yards. You got running backs for a reason use them for what they are for. I don't want a Watson, Newton, Vick, Malik Davis, Marriotta Josh Johnson, Justin Fields, Kaepernick's or Lamar Jackson. Yeah they might make highlight reel plays from time to time but few and far between. I think This past year ends up being Hurts best year and the rest of time we're chasing numbers with him. There's gonna be more tape on him Hard worker and leadership are great but I don't think that makes up for th lack of arm talent or the fact how inconsistent Hurts has been since college till now. Then you got to worry about his playing style and possible injuries. I go back to that Season where everyone but Wentz got hurt and he led the team to the Playoffs still and carried them on their back. Similar to what Rodgers did and has done with GB for awhile outside a few skilled OFF guys. I question if Hurts could really do that outside of just being a hard worker and leader. That only goes so far in the game. I thought Russ Wilson was overrated for yrs. Only was good because of the system and guys around him. Looking more and more like that was true as time goes on. Then again we all found out the dude was also a giant fraud who put on an act in front of cameras when we found out he wanted his coach and GM fired in SEA. Not saying Hurts is that as a person but more or less system guy once he loses them he's not the same player.
Maybe it's a personality thing or it's just how you're wired and since I'm not wired that way (I know you've been open about your diagnosis), it's just hard for me to grasp. But if that's just how you are, in all things, then you do you. Maybe you hear a great song from a new band or performer but don't let yourself enjoy it in case they wind up being a one-hit wonder or have a bad follow-up album. Or, you have a great steak dinner but because it was cooked sous vide instead of reverse-seared (in your opinion, the "right" way to cook a steak), you have to knock the Yelp review down 2 stars. But, I hope there are plenty of other things you're able to be less rigid about and occasionally get opened to new or different joys that are out there, too. And, maybe one day, Jalen Hurts will be one of them for you
I'm pretty opinionated on a lot of stuff honestly. I don't go with the flow on a lot of stuff. I know a lot of people who like Stranger things on Netflix or other hit shows I just don't get them. I've said before I'm not gonna sit here and be all rah rah cheerleader homer. I know some are gonna totally disagree with my takes and thats fine. he's had 1 good year doesn't make a career I saw an account ask what Current Eagles or Eagles players retired already Jersey # you would Retire or think should. You got Lane, BG, Kelce and some other solid names. Then I'm seeing people name Hurts and Devonta? Those guys still have a long time before we even remotely talk about that.
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Nah Dude I'm talking about you in generally always being some kind of bully. Maybe not directly not posting to me but mocking me with the laughing face emoji which I think Joe and Company had every right to delete off here for that very reason but caved into pressure hoping this board would be Mature about it. Your constant pot shots at me etc. You aren't the first coward I've encounter on a board. At least the last guy had the balls to actually @ me when talking about me. But hey have fun acting like the baby. There's others on here who think you act like it but don't have the balls to really tell you though.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Yes but he's a mobile QB injuries happen is where I'm going with this. Wentz was fairly mobile not Hurts mobile but was. After he blew his knee he was never the same mobility wise. Happens to a lot of guys
DJackson10
Footballguy
Some people are hell bent on making sure people agree with them and upset when others don't. It reminds me of all the Embiid deserves MVP over Jokic or Giannis screw the advanced stats type arguments. I get why they are going to go with that. Joel led in Pts and some other things Jokic was .2 shy of averaging a Triple Double this year AS A CENTER with assists btw not blocks and led his team to the #1 seed in his conference. You could probably go either way and still be right but people are hell bent on defending their guy/s.
Like you said it shouldn't matter where Hurts is ranked we're pretty much all agreeing he's either close to it or not. No one here is flat out saying he's not a starting QB in this league. It's great he's a tremendous leader good guy and hard worker. Doesn't make up in all the categories a player lacks. Tom Brady was all of those and really good accept most would agree he's a giant Jackass and players put up with him because he could win a title.
DJackson10
Footballguy
The only one I can see a team taking over Hurts now is Lawrence. I think he has the 'potential' to be better then Hurts, and he showed decent growth last year. But he's not there yet, and Hurts showed waaay more growth last year then Lawrence did. But Trevor has the tools if he take a big leap to be better - which isnt a knock on Hurts at all.It's funny, Hurts play on the field is all the defense you need for him being a top 5 QB. Dak?
Including Cousins though? oof.
Lawerence finally got a good coach this year. He had god dam Urban Meyer his first year. Give Pederson his rookie year and last and I think Lawerence plays even better last year. We've talked about this before with Wentz/Prescott of why Wentz was doing better then Prescott. It's all about the coaching environment and how the team develops around you roster wise. Hurts has a great system for him. I mentioned how I'm having a hard time naming another team that was QB needy where Hurts would've had this success this year after his season before and thought that team would be still drafting a QB this year or at least looking let Hurts ride out the last year of his deal.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Most agree that adding AJ Brown and other weapons helped Hurts improve. Do we think Hurts is as good as he was passing if we took Allen Robinson who was just traded after 1 year in LA over AJ Brown? I'm not buying it honestly.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Former ST Joes prep guy I suggested us signing early in the off season
There's some logic to this statement, but I fear you're watching with a bias against him. He made some TERRIFIC throws last year both in the pocket and on the move. More then a couple of perfectly placed balls into tight windows....so many in fact that I think some folks, including you, have incorrectly assumed he can't make because you've already decided he's a "running QB". The guy I watched could have thrown for 30 TDs and 4800 yards if he was less of a natural talent running. He was not merely adequate throwing...he was actually pretty darn good! Top 5 good? Probably not...top 10...yeah, I think so...and top 10 throwing with his legs is a QB to fear. And once again...it's foolish to beleive a m=kid with his work ethic has peaked as a passer already when he showed so much improvement year to year
Birdie048
Footballguy
Interesting that it even makes the table.
modogg
Footballguy
yeah i think this captures it pretty well. 2 things i have re: Hurts:1) i think people may be under-estimating Hurts based on last year's schedule. there were at least 6 games, (likely more) where the Eagles were up by more than double digits early in the 2nd half and the team went more conservative on offense. add in his injury games and games where he didn't play the 4th Q, and i think his numbers would have probably been the best in the league
2) i was thinking yesterday while walking the dogs, how last year we had a good assessment of what Hurts needed to improve on and show to consider him a possible QB of the future. i remember we discussed him not throwing in the middle of the field, always rolling right, etc. I think Hurts showed everyone by mid-season last year that he had overcome all of those benchmarks that were set. So for this summer, i would love to hear from the doubters what are some of the keys Hurts needs to work on and develop. I heard 2 mentioned, which i think both have plausible answers
a) Hurts runs too much - i think this one can be partially blamed on coaching staff. i think Hurts ran a good amount and it wasn't like he panicked in the pocket, more like he saw an opportunity and would take it. i am guessing he may run a little less this year if the options are out there to have dump offs, etc. the only negative i could see is the idea that Hurts wouldn't progress through all of his reads, but i remember a bunch of times where he threw to his 3rd or 4th option, so that box is checked for me
b) better awareness, specifically with the RPO decisions - for me, this is as simple as needing more experience on the field and will come with being more of a veteran player. i remember a few games where it seemed that he made the wrong read from the RPO, and i think enough defenses showed wrinkles that the team has plenty of tape to look at it. i don't think this is something he can't overcome, simply is something that needs some more time so the processing is easier to recognize and more automatic.
Goals for the upcoming year are interesting to think about. i would say the one i would put out there that is not entirely in his control, is to avoid any big injury. that may be some less running, and if he runs less i hope that doesn't turn into potentially more turnovers. i think one huge thing Hurts did that most seem to forget about, was how spectacular he was at not turning the ball over to start the season last year.
DJackson10
Footballguy
By reading what some Eagles fans post on social media or how they talked about the guy last year apparently he did
DJackson10
Footballguy
Never said he didn't make some good throws last year. Surely doesn't lack confidence either. But at the same time when you get an AJ Brown it makes these throws a whole lot easier to go for. Like I said I don't think some of these throws we see if we signed Allen Robinson instead. Good talent around other players certainly does help. I just think some people are dismissing it as some sort of knock so won't give as much credit there. It shouldn't be. I think a lot of people said the same thing about Wentz get him some better WRs. there's no question IMHO outside of TE which was equal that Hurts has the better offensive guys around him. We'll give both the Oline on this too because of how good they've been but a top 5 playmaking WR makes a huge difference. We saw what happened with McNabb when he had TO and then Desean Jackson.
I just think people are brushing it off like it had some effect but not nearly as much as they want to admit.
DJackson10
Footballguy
1) i think people may be under-estimating Hurts based on last year's schedule. there were at least 6 games, (likely more) where the Eagles were up by more than double digits early in the 2nd half and the team went more conservative on offense. add in his injury games and games where he didn't play the 4th Q, and i think his numbers would have probably been the best in the league
2) i was thinking yesterday while walking the dogs, how last year we had a good assessment of what Hurts needed to improve on and show to consider him a possible QB of the future. i remember we discussed him not throwing in the middle of the field, always rolling right, etc. I think Hurts showed everyone by mid-season last year that he had overcome all of those benchmarks that were set. So for this summer, i would love to hear from the doubters what are some of the keys Hurts needs to work on and develop. I heard 2 mentioned, which i think both have plausible answers
a) Hurts runs too much - i think this one can be partially blamed on coaching staff. i think Hurts ran a good amount and it wasn't like he panicked in the pocket, more like he saw an opportunity and would take it. i am guessing he may run a little less this year if the options are out there to have dump offs, etc. the only negative i could see is the idea that Hurts wouldn't progress through all of his reads, but i remember a bunch of times where he threw to his 3rd or 4th option, so that box is checked for me
b) better awareness, specifically with the RPO decisions - for me, this is as simple as needing more experience on the field and will come with being more of a veteran player. i remember a few games where it seemed that he made the wrong read from the RPO, and i think enough defenses showed wrinkles that the team has plenty of tape to look at it. i don't think this is something he can't overcome, simply is something that needs some more time so the processing is easier to recognize and more automatic.
Goals for the upcoming year are interesting to think about. i would say the one i would put out there that is not entirely in his control, is to avoid any big injury. that may be some less running, and if he runs less i hope that doesn't turn into potentially more turnovers. i think one huge thing Hurts did that most seem to forget about, was how spectacular he was at not turning the ball over to start the season last year.
Those 2 are good but another one especially for him would be consistency overall on everything. His college career was up and down. At times he looked like he was one of the best players out there and then other times he looked bad. I remember talking to a lot of tide fans when both he and Tua were there who thought Hurts was holding the offense back. Either because his arm wasn't as good as Tua's or just the lack of overall consistency from 1 game to the next. So a consistency of what he improved on last year.
Another one which I do think he did well at times but could be better is protecting himself if he does run. We don't need him to play a power back run every defender over. Out of the pocket running around you are giving the defense a free bee to hit you as hard as they can without consequences within the rules. And throw the ball away sooner. Saw him more then a few times this year where nothing was there and either take a bad sack or an unnecessary hit because he didn't throw the ball away sooner
The Noid
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Eagles announced coaching updates for 2023 and on the team website Matt Patricia was listed as Senior Defensive Assistant...until it was deleted about 10 minutes later.
The Noid
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In his press conference with Howie, after this happened, Nick was asked about it and said things "are trending" toward Patricia joining his staff. Said talked to Slay about it and will be "a good working relationship", if it happens.Eagles announced coaching updates for 2023 and on the team website Matt Patricia was listed as Senior Defensive Assistant...until it was deleted about 10 minutes later.
Terpman22
Footballguy
I just don't understand the "WHY" of bringing him here. We have been flirting with this for a few months now. It just doesn't add up to me.In his press conference with Howie, after this happened, Nick was asked about it and said things "are trending" toward Patricia joining his staff. Said talked to Slay about it and will be "a good working relationship", if it happens.Eagles announced coaching updates for 2023 and on the team website Matt Patricia was listed as Senior Defensive Assistant...until it was deleted about 10 minutes later.
Cowboysfan8
Footballguy
All the likes
Birdie048
Footballguy
Looks official now....Eagles announced coaching updates for 2023 and on the team website Matt Patricia was listed as Senior Defensive Assistant...until it was deleted about 10 minutes later.
Eagles hired ex-Patriots OC Matt Patricia as senior defensive assistant.
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