Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Either that or they want to finish the meeting early so they can get to Hooters by lunch time.
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2024 Detroit Lions: Draft complete. (19 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Maelstrom
Footballguy
Heard on ESPN that a lot of teams meet with their HCs Monday morning the day after the season, it doesn't necessarily lead to them being fired. That being said, I wonder how much that final game plays into this, Lions should have been pretty much favored to win that game.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I keep hearing plenty of talent..but where? The Lions have 5-6 really good players.
QBs- Stafford took a big step back this season. Too many bad decisions for a 5th year QB.
RBs- Bush was good but fumbled way too much and it cost the team dearly. Bell was a solid #2 RB
WRs- Calvin and who? Mayhews botched drafted picks have left the team thin at WR. Burleson is a solid 3-4 guy. Durham, drops way too many passes.
TEs- Pettigrew is a good blocker, drops way too many passes. Furia is a big red zone target but a weak blocker.
OL- Better than average pass protectors, below average run blockers.
DL- For all the hype the sacks and pressure were just not consistent. Fairley still takes way too many stupid penalties.
LBs- Fair at their very best.
DBs- Horrible!!
K-s Akers was decent and Sam Martin cost the Lions a win with a shanked punt late in the Bengals game.
Ross as the return man was a huge upgrade.
So I really do not see a team that has more than average overall talent.
The O-line was better than predicted at pass protection, they are not very good at run blocking.
I really wish they would just clean house. When they first fired Millen, and kept Mayhew/Lewand around to run things, it was obvious we would end up here again. Mayhew was Millen's, and Lewand pre-dates both of them.... nothing changed. This organization is as mismanaged as ever, the only reason they climbed from the bottom to playoff conversation is because they finally got a few early round draft picks right. This team has competed with a very top heavy talent base, due to endless high draft picks. Unfortunately, the front office still fails to stock the rest of the roster, or stocks it poorly (the secondary, anyone?).
That doesn't even touch on the coaching. This team shows no consistent progress from year to year, with the endless up's and downs. There is no accountability, that is obvious throughout the schwartz reign. Penalties, substitutions, questionable play calls, poor clock management, Stafford's insistence that he will not work with a qb coach (because it doesn't fit his style? What?!)... these are all signs of a team that doesn't fear the repercussions of it's mistakes. This team reminds me of that teenage a**hole that we all know, who shows little respect and acts like the world revolves around him... because he gets away with it. That is the Lions. The players are incredibly mistake prone, the coaches have an endless list of blunders and questionable calls, and the GM has a marginal track record at best. They all get away with it because at each level there is a failure to hold people accountable.
I hate this team.
That doesn't even touch on the coaching. This team shows no consistent progress from year to year, with the endless up's and downs. There is no accountability, that is obvious throughout the schwartz reign. Penalties, substitutions, questionable play calls, poor clock management, Stafford's insistence that he will not work with a qb coach (because it doesn't fit his style? What?!)... these are all signs of a team that doesn't fear the repercussions of it's mistakes. This team reminds me of that teenage a**hole that we all know, who shows little respect and acts like the world revolves around him... because he gets away with it. That is the Lions. The players are incredibly mistake prone, the coaches have an endless list of blunders and questionable calls, and the GM has a marginal track record at best. They all get away with it because at each level there is a failure to hold people accountable.
I hate this team.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Tom Lewand and Martin Mayhew should have been fired along with Matt Millen. The Lions can`t even clean house correctly. The kept Millens right hand man in Mayhew and Lewand has been the team president in the worst decade of football in NFL history.
I would love to see Schwartz, Mayhew and Lewand all let go. This teams needs a clean slate.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
time to clean out the coaching staff but with Schwartz being owed 12 million I doubt it happens
Dont like that Stafford wont work with a QB guru either, he clearly is regressing
Dont like that Stafford wont work with a QB guru either, he clearly is regressing
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Schwartz is no longer with us.
mikel0254
Footballguy
It's ridiculous that he doesn't think he needs help after seasons of 17 & 19 ints. I hope the new coaching staff forces him to work with somebody
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I'm guessing if it were going to be a full housecleaning, that would have happened all at once. So, once again, the Lion's take a half measure approach. It doesn't matter who comes in to coach, the front office will still be manned by clowns, leaving the coach handicapped.
The Stafford thing drives me nuts. There is nothing indicating his approach is working... the team isn't winning, his numbers are pedestrian from an efficiency standpoint, he just compiles through volume, and a number of his mistakes can be directly pointed to as mental mistakes that cost games. To say he isn't interested in a QB coach leads me to believe that he thinks what he is doing is fine. Someone desperately needs to tell him otherwise. Instead, our coach and OC spent the year defending Stafford and his approach through the media. I think this is a critical mistake and has probably stunted Stafford's development.
The Stafford thing drives me nuts. There is nothing indicating his approach is working... the team isn't winning, his numbers are pedestrian from an efficiency standpoint, he just compiles through volume, and a number of his mistakes can be directly pointed to as mental mistakes that cost games. To say he isn't interested in a QB coach leads me to believe that he thinks what he is doing is fine. Someone desperately needs to tell him otherwise. Instead, our coach and OC spent the year defending Stafford and his approach through the media. I think this is a critical mistake and has probably stunted Stafford's development.
whoknew
Footballguy
Why would the front office be fired? There is a LOT of talent on this team. The 2013 draft was spectacular. It seems like Mayhew is doing a good job.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
The one good draft that Mayhew has had is after the Lions hired Zander. There is some talent on this team. There is not a lot of talent. Mayhew has blown too many high picks for the team to have a lot of talent. The best player on the team was drafted by Millen.
Best, LeShoure, Titus Young, Ryan Boyles..all 1-2rd picks that the Lions got ZERO production from this past season. All 4 of those players were huge ??? coming out of college.
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bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
not to mention Pettigrew who while servicable isnt a first round player
The jury is still out on Riley Rieff, although he looked decent this year
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I forgot Pettigrew because he did play, but Pettigrew is a run of the mill TE. A TE that you can get as a FA or mid-round pick. Not close to a first rd talent.
The drafts have NOT been that good. Like I said earlier, this myth that the Lion's are highly talented is fed by a very top heavy roster. They are in a very precarious position in regards to the cap because they haven't done a good job bringing in talent that wasn't a high draft pick, or a pricey free agent. Championships, and perennial contenders, are built by always finding solid talent throughout the draft, and solid contributors from the cheap end of the FA pool. The Lion's only hits are on the high dollar guys, the ones who are obvious to most. They also have a number of blown 2nd/3rd round picks under Mayhew
Pettigrew 1st
Williams 3rd
Best (Traded 2nd to move to bottom of 1st for him) Some may argue he wasn't a bust, but he was a huge risk
Spievey 3rd
Young 2nd
LeShoure 2nd (I will concede the Achilles tear prevents fair judgement)
Broyles 2nd
Bentley 3rd
And no true diamond in the rough types have been found to offset those picks. There are no unheralded studs that they've unearthed.
Mayhew has done enough to pull them from the depths Millen sunk them, to mediocrity. There is not enough overall on this roster to contend annually, and thanks to the cost of what talent is there, it's hard to add to it. Keeping Mayhew is accepting being average again... and that's a real bummer. I've watched average since I became a Lion's fan, I want to believe they are striving for more, but yet again... they disappoint.
Pettigrew 1st
Williams 3rd
Best (Traded 2nd to move to bottom of 1st for him) Some may argue he wasn't a bust, but he was a huge risk
Spievey 3rd
Young 2nd
LeShoure 2nd (I will concede the Achilles tear prevents fair judgement)
Broyles 2nd
Bentley 3rd
And no true diamond in the rough types have been found to offset those picks. There are no unheralded studs that they've unearthed.
Mayhew has done enough to pull them from the depths Millen sunk them, to mediocrity. There is not enough overall on this roster to contend annually, and thanks to the cost of what talent is there, it's hard to add to it. Keeping Mayhew is accepting being average again... and that's a real bummer. I've watched average since I became a Lion's fan, I want to believe they are striving for more, but yet again... they disappoint.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Best, Young and Broyles were all huge risks. I remember when the Lions drafted Best all the pundits said that that bad concussion he suffered at Cal made him a very risky pick. Titus Young was projected as a 4th rd pick with "huge character" concerns. LeShoure was taken too high for a mediocre RB. And Broyles was coming of a torn ACL and not even healthy when drafted.
At the time these guys were drafted the Lions did not have the luxury to take such risks. They were not coming off back to back Super-Bowls.
SofaKings
Footballguy
SofaKings
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
he needs to get a QB guru in there and help him, way too many mistakes, hopefully he new system can re-fresh him ala Rivers.
He has only had Linehan and Schwartz as his coaches since hes been in the league
Phenix
Footballguy
No chance the front office guys get canned? Its not like they are awesome at their job.
While I agree they stay, to say no chance is foolish at least.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
I am not sure that Stafford can change his playing style. How many QBs change after 5 seasons? I am sure he can cut down on bad throws but the quick sidearm passes into the RBs knees are here to stay.
Phenix
Footballguy
The same talent you are knocking about the INTs is the same talent that has thrown for over 4650 yards each of the last 3 years and 90 total passing TDs in that span.
Take the good with the bad. I remember more than a few INTs not being his fault. Calvins handoff at the five yard line to the corner after a deep bomb wasnt Staffords fault. Also, Calvin had an unreal amount of drops this year.
That side arm stuff has helped him out of trouble at times too. Its his style, you change his mechanics you may get a 3000 yard passer. Careful what you wish for.
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Those numbers were inflated because the Lions were always losing and had no running game. When you are throwing 50+ times a game and have the best WR on the planet you accumulate stats. Look at Stafford stats when Calvin has missed a game.
I am not totally down on Stafford though and still think the Lions can win with him. People expect the #1 overall pick to be elite and I don`t think he will be elite.
Phenix
Footballguy
mikel0254
Footballguy
Stafford is 2-27 against teams that finished the season with a winning record. The only team he beat was Seattle last year. Elite? Not a chance. At least, not yet...
ETA: I added 1 win, against GB this year.
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While I am down on Stafford, I do not think he is beyond repair. The guy has an incredible arm, and makes some incredible throws. He also makes completely boneheaded mistakes, takes unreasonable risks, and really counts on Calvin to be an eraser. He gets Calvin killed annually with high throws in the middle of the field. Calvin is perpetually banged up, and if you watch the Lion's with any regularity, it's obvious why.
Stafford desperately needs someone to tell him that how he is playing right now is not winning football. With Schwartz and Linehan constantly endorsing the recklessness in the media, with their unwillingness to admit that he needs to reel in some of the unorthodox throws, he has been enabled. The best thing that could happen to Stafford, in my opinion, is for someone to get him to realize he has to work on accuracy, better footwork, and delivering a more catchable ball. Whether that comes from a QB coach, or him just identifying his weaknesses and working on them, I don't care. His stance that all is well is just not true. The losses, the interceptions, the below average completion percentages, all point to things being the very opposite of well.
Stafford desperately needs someone to tell him that how he is playing right now is not winning football. With Schwartz and Linehan constantly endorsing the recklessness in the media, with their unwillingness to admit that he needs to reel in some of the unorthodox throws, he has been enabled. The best thing that could happen to Stafford, in my opinion, is for someone to get him to realize he has to work on accuracy, better footwork, and delivering a more catchable ball. Whether that comes from a QB coach, or him just identifying his weaknesses and working on them, I don't care. His stance that all is well is just not true. The losses, the interceptions, the below average completion percentages, all point to things being the very opposite of well.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Gunther Cunningham "still under contract"
Stupid ### franchise, that clown needs to go too
Hopefully they let the new coach bring in his own DC
Stupid ### franchise, that clown needs to go too
Hopefully they let the new coach bring in his own DC
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
They only fired Schwartz, Linehan and one other coach. That is kind of odd, you would think the new HC would want all of his own coaches.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
its stupid is what it is, they said at the presser that "it will be the coaches decision" but "we wil make recommendations"
Sheesh
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Well Tom Lewand was the water-boy at Michigan for 2 seasons. So he does know his football.
Sabertooth
Footballguy
Cunningham looks like he smells great.
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Yep, and that's not even mentioning that Millen whiffed on all of those Wr top 10 picks minus Calvin. So to go WR with guys like Broyles who was injured and undersized and mental case Young was especially bad judgment. I could take him or leave him, I am still ticked at thise Wr picks and I was just as mad the day he made them. The RB picks were reaches too. You can get guys at RB who are serviceable in free agency, guys you know can produce. You could get Chris Johnson if you wanted him this year. What you can't get are stud linemen in their prime, those guys you have to draft and the Lions just pass them buy.
You know when you're in a draft with guys you know and some guys are loose with their picks, you like to draft near them so a pick may fall to you. The Lions is that guy in the draft.
Gopher State
Footballguy
sounds like the lions are going to interview Tom Cable for HC, Tommy's got a heck of one two punch 
I have a better idea: instead of hiring Cable, why not just take a dump on the 50 yard line of Ford Field?sounds like the lions are going to interview Tom Cable for HC, Tommy's got a heck of one two punch
Iwannabeacowboybaby!
Footballguy
Lions bring in Caldwell from Baltimore for an interview.
Trying not to read anything into these rumors and speculation, but good lord, if they hire a retread like Cable or Caldwell I would seriously consider staging a public burning of my Lions Fan Club card. Why not bring in Raheem Morris while you're at it? Or maybe Bruce Coslet?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I know that last line was just a throwaway joke, but it has to be said: Schwartz took over a franchise that was literally at the lowest point any NFL team has ever been at, and returned it to respectability. He improved the win totals each of his first three years, culminating in the Lions' first playoff appearance in more than a decade. He definitely deserved to be fired after this year's epic collapse, and truth be told, I never really liked the guy much to begin with, but he was easily the best Lions HC in recent memory (low bar, I know).
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Cable and Caldwell?
What a joke
What a joke
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This team is doomed, they will make the Red Sox, White Sox and Cubs title drought look like a small rebuilding period before they win a super bowl.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I am really hoping it is Whisenhunt and they are just covering their bases before they can formally begin pursuing him. He took the Cards to a Superbowl, if you can pull that off, why not do the same in Detroit?
Also, I think previous posters here really undervalued the Lions talent. Outside of WR, Detroit is average to above average at every position. The OL was outstanding this year, both backs had huge holes to run through and Stafford rarely faced pressure. The secondary still gave up too many deep balls, but ultimately they weren't bad. I have no problem keeping Gunther, the D wasnt the issue this year. The issue was with the offense and the leadership. The Lions just have this odd problem of never getting everything to work right. When the D plays well, like agonist Baltimore, the offense can't score. When the Lions are moving the ball down the field with ease, they fumble in the redzone. When the D gets a team to 3rd and long, someone commits a stupid penalty. When the D gets a stop, the refs call a phantom penalty. It's just rarely all comes together at once and that has to be out on the HC.
Also, I think previous posters here really undervalued the Lions talent. Outside of WR, Detroit is average to above average at every position. The OL was outstanding this year, both backs had huge holes to run through and Stafford rarely faced pressure. The secondary still gave up too many deep balls, but ultimately they weren't bad. I have no problem keeping Gunther, the D wasnt the issue this year. The issue was with the offense and the leadership. The Lions just have this odd problem of never getting everything to work right. When the D plays well, like agonist Baltimore, the offense can't score. When the Lions are moving the ball down the field with ease, they fumble in the redzone. When the D gets a team to 3rd and long, someone commits a stupid penalty. When the D gets a stop, the refs call a phantom penalty. It's just rarely all comes together at once and that has to be out on the HC.
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Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
What happened to reports that Niners OC Greg Roman was interested in the job? Obviously, they wouldn't be able to talk to him until next week at the earliest, but the same is true of Whisenhunt.
That said, I'd be OK with Whiz. What bothered me the most about the prospect of Cable and Caldwell wasn't just that they were retreads, but that their previous tenures indicated they weren't particularly good head coaches. Whiz seems more in the mold of an Andy Reid or a John Fox, successful coaches (all of whom made it to a Super Bowl) who eventually reached a point where they needed a change of scenery. As I recall, most people expected him to get another HC opportunity after he left AZ last year, but it was just one of those sort of situations where all the chairs were filled by the time the music stopped. And his track record with QBs, from Roethlisberger to Warner to Rivers, is certainly encouraging. (I guess his post-Warner Cardinals tenure is his one black mark, and that's probably what got him fired, but I don't think any coach could win with the likes of John Skelton and Derek Anderson.)
That said, I'd be OK with Whiz. What bothered me the most about the prospect of Cable and Caldwell wasn't just that they were retreads, but that their previous tenures indicated they weren't particularly good head coaches. Whiz seems more in the mold of an Andy Reid or a John Fox, successful coaches (all of whom made it to a Super Bowl) who eventually reached a point where they needed a change of scenery. As I recall, most people expected him to get another HC opportunity after he left AZ last year, but it was just one of those sort of situations where all the chairs were filled by the time the music stopped. And his track record with QBs, from Roethlisberger to Warner to Rivers, is certainly encouraging. (I guess his post-Warner Cardinals tenure is his one black mark, and that's probably what got him fired, but I don't think any coach could win with the likes of John Skelton and Derek Anderson.)
