2024 Detroit Lions season is over 15-3: Bitter ending to a great season. (5 Viewers)

[BobbyLayne]

Recapping Holmes: Lions GM Remains Committed to Approach that Brought the Team this Far

Allen Park — Detroit Lions general manager Brad Holmes met with the media on Thursday for his annual session to wrap up the season. Here are the most important things to come out of the nearly half-hour press conference.

Sticking to the plan

Holmes opened with reflections on the season, predictably expressing disappointment after the team fell well short of its Super Bowl aspirations. Regardless, the GM presented a glass-half-full assessment of the team’s body of work in 2024, as well as the future.

“Look, 15 wins, that’s hard to do in a year where you don’t have all of the attrition that we had to deal with to get 15, but on top of all of the attrition that we had to deal with to get — I mean that’s about as difficult as it gets,” Holmes said. “That was a heck of a job by (coach Dan Campbell) and the whole staff, the whole coaching staff. We saw a lot of players make jumps and get better and continue to improve. So, I was happy for those guys and our fans. They still, once again, they showed up and did their part and they upheld their end of the bargain. I wish we could have done more for them.”

Holmes reiterated a philosophy he’s made a focal point of his tenure, refusing to be a prisoner of the moment. He believes in the team’s foundation and won’t overcompensate with rash decisions this offseason. The strategy that got the Lions to this point will remain the strategy.

“Look, it happened,” Holmes said. “You can’t mope a reversal of the unfortunate outcome, so there’s literally nothing else to do but pick yourself up and get back to work. There is nothing else to do, so that’s what we’re going to do. That’s what we will do, and the process has already started.

“I just think that we just stay the course and just keep building like we’ve been,” Holmes continued. “I do think that we’re very close. Obviously, I thought that we were very close this year, but nothing is going to alter what our approach has been in terms of trying to continue to improve and keep building.”

Rebuilding the staff

The immediate offseason priority for the franchise will be replenishing its coaching staff, which has been raided in recent days with the departures of offensive coordinator Ben Johnson, defensive coordinator Aaron Glenn and defensive line coach Terrell Williams.

Filling out that staff primarily falls on coach Dan Campbell. However, during his introductory comments in 2021, the coach made it clear he'd run each potential hire by Holmes and wouldn't bring someone on board the GM didn't sign off on.

Holmes expressed gratitude for the team's departing coaches, noting the Lions were lucky to have them as long as they did. He also echoed Campbell's comments from Monday about the team anticipating the departures.

Asked what he'd like to see with the replacements, Holmes offered a list of traits.
"I think he's going to have to be adaptable, he's going to have to be smart, he's going to have to be able to adjust, make sure that he's putting the players in the best position to succeed," Holmes said. "Those are some of the characteristics that I think are a good culture fit for a coach here. I think that our identity kind of shows, so most coaches that choose to take a position here, same as a player, I think that they know what they're about to walk into in terms of how we play and what our standards are."

Holmes' first significant move as Detroit's GM was trading for quarterback Jared Goff, a player he had scouted and recommended trading up to draft while with the Los Angeles Rams. Four years later, it's easy to point to that decision as a key component to Detroit's turnaround. Goff is coming off his best season and was announced as one of five finalists for the league's MVP award on Thursday.

Still, there's little denying the pairing with Johnson was instrumental to Goff's continued improvement. Holmes was asked if he was concerned about the quarterback's performance sustaining with a new voice leading the offense.

"I think Jared, in particular, that's something that I know is at the forefront of Dan's mind, in terms of what's going to be the best thing for him," Holmes said. "I have faith that everything will be OK. …Obviously, he was very productive with Ben as a coordinator, but he had a lot of prior success before he even got here as well in a completely different system, and I think he's a better quarterback, a more mature quarterback now than he was then when he had early success,

"I don't foresee (a decline)," Holmes said. "Again, I think the guy's in his prime. He's gotten better and better every year. And when I say prime, I think just entering it because he keeps ascending. I think every single year we've been here, the next year has been, 'Man, he's playing at a high level,' and the levels keep improving.

Re-emphasizing the value of depth

Holmes was asked how he processed watching the roster he constructed to win a Super Bowl get ravaged by injuries. The GM intentionally avoided complaining about his fortunes, noting these scenarios drive home his approach to roster-building.

"That's why me and Dan are so heavily concentrated on depth, depth, depth, even when sometimes it's like, 'Now why didn't you sign that most expensive free agent?'" Holmes said. "Well, we're trying to accrue depth because this kind of stuff happens. So, we've kind of stuck true to that. Because I've always thought about that, when the injuries happened, I guess I'm mentally prepared for them a lot better."
If there was any sense of woe, it wasn't for himself but for the players who landed on the shelf.

"From a negative emotions standpoint, I just feel bad for the players," Holmes said. "I feel like the players put so much into it, and a lot of times, it's bad luck. When you look at some of these injuries and how they happened, there were some that were just bizarre."

Holmes also acknowledged the positives from the situation, with the team's personnel department consistently proving they're up to the task of filling the voids and the coaching staff quickly getting those additions ready to contribute.

"What are you going to do about it? It happened," Holmes said. "...You can't pout them back to health. Again, you hate it for the players."

Talking contracts

Holmes was asked about several contract situations. In most instances, he stated the team hadn't engaged in intensive conversations regarding new deals.

The general manager did praise the contributions of two veterans, guard Kevin Zeitler and cornerback Carlton Davis, who are both set to hit the open market in March.

"I thought Zeitler did a good job this year," Holmes said. "It's different when you're changing completely different schemes. Kind of early on, he had to kind of get used to how we were doing things, but once he got adjusted into that, I thought he did a really good job. You know, a player of that age, you just got to have conversations with him. We had conversations on exit day, and then we'll just continue to have dialogue and kind of see where it goes."

Regarding Davis:
"I thought we got very good play from him," Holmes said. "I will be honest, I thought he played better this year than he did the year before, that last year in Tampa. He'll tell you that, too. But I thought we got what we wanted to get. Obviously, unfortunate we had to lose him and be without him, but we're aware of not only Carlton, Zeitler, we're aware of a lot of other guys that are either on expiring contracts that, you know, had good contributions to our team this year, or guys that are worthy for an extension, or in consideration for an extension. No intense action yet, but we're very aware of it."

While Holmes was relatively non-committal regarding those two players, he was more clear about his desire to get a long-term extension done with All-Pro safety Kerby Joseph, who will be entering the final year of his rookie deal next season.

"That's on the docket, in terms of to be looked at and discussed," Holmes said. "We know where he's at, from an eligibility (standpoint). Look, he's an All-Pro player. I don't know how you don't make the Pro Bowl with nine interceptions, whatever that is, but he's an All-Pro player. He's another one that's gotten better and better. He's one that has proved he's a Detroit Lion. He fits, he fits our culture. It's hard to find ballhawk guys that will tackle how he does. I think that's what makes him unique. Again, we haven't had any intense dialogue about that yet, but obviously you want to keep the good players here."

The Lions have been proactive about getting ahead of the market with extensions for their top players. In addition to Joseph, Jameson Williams and Aidan Hutchinson are also eligible for extensions this offseason.

"Again, it's not always in our control," Holmes said. "We might have our plans and processes, but it takes two people to get something done. That's not a negative comment, it's just you don't know that player, that camp, all that kind of stuff is thinking.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Never neglecting a strength

Regardless of what the team decides to do with Zeitler, Holmes has no intention of neglecting the offensive line this or any offseason.

"It's not, you know, oh, it's got to be a future left tackle, or it's a starting guard, or someone you develop behind Frank (Ragnow)," Holmes said. "I think when you start going on those specific avenues, you can kind of ignore something else. I just think you have to get the whole garden watered.

"It's going to be the whole unit," Holmes continued. "That's the engine for us. I don't care how good we ever get on the offensive line, that one right there is too important for not only our team, our quarterback, everything. It's our identity, man. I think just that alone, it's always going to be at the forefront."

Holmes invested in the unit through last year's draft, using two draft picks to add guard Christian Mahogany and offensive tackle Giovanni Manu. The GM expressed healthy optimism for both.

"Mahogany kind of started the OTAs, like, man, he looks like he's — it's not too big for him,” Holmes said. “Just stepped right in and kind of knew what to do, where Manu was the complete opposite. He's like, man, 'I've never had this kind of lingo that I had to remember and snap cadence and all that stuff.' And credit to our coaches.”

Mahogany missed training camp with mono, but Holmes said the lineman picked up right where he left off when he came off the injured list. That's when it became clear he deserved to be a top backup. The GM also said Mahogany is ready to move into the starting lineup if needed.

As for Manu, confirming what you might have read in our feature on the developmental lineman earlier this month, Holmes said the growth from arrival to the end of the season was stark.

"If you watched the film of Gio in OTAs and you watched the film of Gio in practice, I mean, it literally was night and day," Holmes said. "So that's credit to Hank (Fraley) and Steve Oliver and all those guys just working with him. And credit to him because he was conscientious of making sure that he improved. So, excited about both of these guys' futures.

Player has to be right to deal picks

In a question that felt like a direct reference to Maxx Crosby, Holmes was asked if he was prepared to sacrifice draft picks to land a veteran piece that could put the Lions over the hump.

Holmes noted he's already shown a willingness to trade picks for veteran pieces, which is true. He sent a third-rounder to Tampa for Davis and a Day 3 asset to Cleveland for Za'Darius Smith at this year's trade deadline.

Regardless, building through the draft remains the organization's philosophy.

"We had a trade for a veteran pass rusher and spent draft capital for that player," Holmes said. "We're not scared of that. It just has to be the right player. … We've always said we're going to build through the draft. And I think that's why we're in the position we're in from a (Super Bowl-)window standpoint of having the comfort to keep building like we have been."

Regarding the deal for Smith, Holmes said it was one of the most challenging experiences he's had as a GM, but an experience that made him better at the job.

"You can look at all these names of all these starting defensive ends in the NFL, but when you start doing the work, when you start making the calls, that thing shrinks down — from an availability standpoint — that thing shrinks down like this," Holmes said, holding his hands close together. "You start calling these other teams, these other GMs, and they may have four rushers. So, forget the starters. Those guys aren't even available. We're talking about third and fourths (stingers).

"You ask and I can't really disagree with them where they say, 'Look, we've got two plus months of football left and I trade you one and we get another one hurt, then we've only got two,'" Holmes explained. "And I was like, 'I didn't really expect you to be rational and think about it that way.' But it's true. So when we got Za'Darius, he was one of a small handful of guys that were actually available."

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Maybe Lions fans should be glad Johnson is moving on to greener pastures

Taaaaap the brakes

I’m just sayin.

For literally months everyone questioned whether the HC’s penchant for 4th down conversions would eventually cost them a big game.

if it wasn’t Johnson who called that disaster, my apologies for besmirching his good name. But that was bonkers. No way to sugar coat how terrible that was.

I'm glad you tied those things together. The Lions of the last 2+ years aren't what they have been without their leadership- their bold, fearless, creative leadership. Dating back to last year, 'everyone' was waiting for a 4th down play to go bad. Never mind all the successes, it was all about the one that would fail. Ben Johnson has been (correctly) praised for his creativity and boldness throughout this magical run. Am I 100% perfect? Are you? Is anyone? No, of course not. Ben Johnson included. Even the best at their craft mess up on occasion, like he did Saturday night. That one flub does not undo all of the great things him and his team has accomplished over the last 2+ years. Shame on anyone for suggesting otherwise.

I never suggested that. Perhaps if i had it would be in the quote above. Not once did I say that one terrible, dumb, remarkably irresponsible play should undo a career's worth of work, or a couple of seasons, or anything resembling it. And "shame on" anyone for making a straw man argument like that in an otherwise good faith discussion.

But I am saying that one terrible, dumb, remarkably irresponsible play was inexcusable, and contributed greatly to their loss.

My "tying those things together" was merely pointing out the irony. As I clearly stated a post later, I am "team go for it on 4th".

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Taking the ball out of Gibbs' hands at key moments in the game was also a mistake.

IIRC, Gibbs was getting chunks of yards. This is the most baffling part. I could absolutely see going PA Pass off the GIbbs run threat. IMO that would been pretty effective. The trick play to Jamo felt way too cute, and the result was obviously a complete disaster.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Taking the ball out of Gibbs' hands at key moments in the game was also a mistake.

IIRC, Gibbs was getting chunks of yards. This is the most baffling part. I could absolutely see going PA Pass off the GIbbs run threat. IMO that would been pretty effective. The trick play to Jamo felt way too cute, and the result was obviously a complete disaster.

I agree The Lions should really consider getting rid of that offensive coordinator.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Taking the ball out of Gibbs' hands at key moments in the game was also a mistake.

IIRC, Gibbs was getting chunks of yards. This is the most baffling part. I could absolutely see going PA Pass off the GIbbs run threat. IMO that would been pretty effective. The trick play to Jamo felt way too cute, and the result was obviously a complete disaster.

I agree The Lions should really consider getting rid of that offensive coordinator.

Much like they got rid of Calvin Johnson after he fumbled away the Seattle game. Dude never played in the NFL again

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Taking the ball out of Gibbs' hands at key moments in the game was also a mistake.

IIRC, Gibbs was getting chunks of yards. This is the most baffling part. I could absolutely see going PA Pass off the GIbbs run threat. IMO that would been pretty effective. The trick play to Jamo felt way too cute, and the result was obviously a complete disaster.

Yeah, the empty backfield on the 3rd and 1 play that ended with a strip sack was particularly bad. (Having said that, they clearly had a play drawn up for ARSB, and he slipped coming out of the break, which forced Goff to delay his throw long enough for the rusher to get home.)

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Taking the ball out of Gibbs' hands at key moments in the game was also a mistake.

IIRC, Gibbs was getting chunks of yards. This is the most baffling part. I could absolutely see going PA Pass off the GIbbs run threat. IMO that would been pretty effective. The trick play to Jamo felt way too cute, and the result was obviously a complete disaster.

Yeah, the empty backfield on the 3rd and 1 play that ended with a strip sack was particularly bad. (Having said that, they clearly had a play drawn up for ARSB, and he slipped coming out of the break, which forced Goff to delay his throw long enough for the rusher to get home.)

Yep - I remember in the in-game topic folks were incredulous that they went empty backfield - like, even the threat of the run probably helps, but leaving Monty in to chip might have helped buy Goff a little time.

 

[MAC_32]

Maybe Lions fans should be glad Johnson is moving on to greener pastures

Taaaaap the brakes

I’m just sayin.

For literally months everyone questioned whether the HC’s penchant for 4th down conversions would eventually cost them a big game.

if it wasn’t Johnson who called that disaster, my apologies for besmirching his good name. But that was bonkers. No way to sugar coat how terrible that was.

I'm glad you tied those things together. The Lions of the last 2+ years aren't what they have been without their leadership- their bold, fearless, creative leadership. Dating back to last year, 'everyone' was waiting for a 4th down play to go bad. Never mind all the successes, it was all about the one that would fail. Ben Johnson has been (correctly) praised for his creativity and boldness throughout this magical run. Am I 100% perfect? Are you? Is anyone? No, of course not. Ben Johnson included. Even the best at their craft mess up on occasion, like he did Saturday night. That one flub does not undo all of the great things him and his team has accomplished over the last 2+ years. Shame on anyone for suggesting otherwise.

I never suggested that. Perhaps if i had it would be in the quote above. Not once did I say that one terrible, dumb, remarkably irresponsible play should undo a career's worth of work, or a couple of seasons, or anything resembling it. And "shame on" anyone for making a straw man argument like that in an otherwise good faith discussion.

But I am saying that one terrible, dumb, remarkably irresponsible play was inexcusable, and contributed greatly to their loss.

My "tying those things together" was merely pointing out the irony. As I clearly stated a post later, I am "team go for it on 4th".

You said maybe Lions fans should be happy Ben Johnson is gone. In the quoted. Own your words.

 

[Da Guru]

Very surprised that GM Brad Holmes spoke for so long and not once did bring up the "Hendon Hooker Situation"

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

You said maybe Lions fans should be happy Ben Johnson is gone. In the quoted. Own your words.

Yep. I said that.

That’s not saying a single word about his past career.

Be better than putting words into my mouth to “own”.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Lions hire new DL coach

Report: Lions are expected to hire DL coach Kacy Rodgers

The Lions have spent the last few days saying goodbye to assistant coaches, but it appears they're set to make an addition to Dan Campbell's staff.

sports.yahoo.com

Seems like a good hire, Lions had a lot of problems with this defense. Of their 18 games this season the Lions offense had it's lowest point output vs Tampa in a 20-16 loss.

 

[Moonlight]

Very surprised that GM Brad Holmes spoke for so long and not once did bring up the "Hendon Hooker Situation"

That’s an interesting catch. I don’t think there’s any issue about Goff being the starter.
Also don’t think there was any mention of Vaki either. My point being that there has been previous positive press about both Vaki and Hooker. I didn’t take much from Bridgewater being made # 2 QB. I think both Vaki and Hooker continue to be in the Lions future plans.

 

[Moonlight]

Lions hire new DL coach

Report: Lions are expected to hire DL coach Kacy Rodgers

The Lions have spent the last few days saying goodbye to assistant coaches, but it appears they're set to make an addition to Dan Campbell's staff.

sports.yahoo.com

Seems like a good hire, Lions had a lot of problems with this defense. Of their 18 games this season the Lions offense had it's lowest point output vs Tampa in a 20-16 loss.

Tampa has been good against the run. We also had a tough game against Tampa in last year’s playoffs. Lions want to prioritize stopping the run so this hire fits.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Very surprised that GM Brad Holmes spoke for so long and not once did bring up the "Hendon Hooker Situation"

wHAt iS he HidInG fROm uS?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Lions hire new DL coach

Report: Lions are expected to hire DL coach Kacy Rodgers

The Lions have spent the last few days saying goodbye to assistant coaches, but it appears they're set to make an addition to Dan Campbell's staff.

sports.yahoo.com

Seems like a good hire, Lions had a lot of problems with this defense. Of their 18 games this season the Lions offense had it's lowest point output vs Tampa in a 20-16 loss.

A little odd to hire the DL coach before the DC, but I'm going to assume Campbell knows what he's doing. Or maybe they knew they wanted Rogers and felt they had to move fast to avoid him going elsewhere

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Terrion Arnold takes out his post-game frustrations on the Commanders in Madden

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Terrion Arnold takes out his post-game frustrations on the Commanders in Madden

Classic

 

[Da Guru]

Terrion Arnold takes out his post-game frustrations on the Commanders in Madden

Have to realize these guys grew up with Madden. After the Philly win they asked Jalen Hurts if he liked playing in the snow and he said "Yes, I always change the weather to snow when I play Madden"

 

[BobbyLayne]

Here’s what the Lions are getting in new defensive line coach Kacy Rodgers

On Monday, Detroit Lions coach Dan Campbell called defensive line coach Terrell Williams the best in the league at coaching the position. By Wednesday, he was gone, accepting a job to become the New England Patriots defensive coordinator. A day later, the Lions secured his replacement.

On Thursday, the Lions agreed to terms with Kacy Rodgers, a longtime and respected defensive line coach and former defensive coordinator.

Campbell and Rodgers go way back, intersecting twice during their careers. They first overlapped when they separately arrived in Dallas in 2003. Campbell was still in the early stages of his playing career, coming home to Texas after spending the first four seasons with the New York Giants. Meanwhile, Rodgers earned his first NFL job after coaching nine years collegiately. He was coming off a one-year stint with an Arkansas team that allowed fewer than 20 points per game.

Campbell and Rodgers spent three years together in Dallas before reuniting on Tony Sparano's staff in Miami in 2010. Rodgers was in his third season as the Dolphins' defensive line coach when Campbell came aboard as a coaching intern before taking charge of the team's tight ends the following year.

Rodgers departed to become the defensive coordinator of the New York Jets in 2014 to join the staff of former Dallas and Miami colleague Todd Bowles. That was the year before Campbell served as the Dolphins interim head coach.

Most recently, Rodgers has been working Bowles in Tampa. Rodgers' contract expired this offseason, and even though he had an offer to stay, he's opting to try something new by reconnecting with Campbell in Detroit.

Let’s explore Rodgers’ credentials a bit more:

Where he’s been and what he’s done

Let's gloss quickly through Rodgers' rise through the college ranks. With all due respect, his time at Tennessee-Martin three decades ago is largely irrelevant to his current coaching abilities.

To recap, after his playing career fizzled out in 1994, Rodgers coached Tennessee-Martin's defensive line for four seasons (94-97) before stints at Northeast Louisiana (98), Middle Tennessee State (99-01) and Arkansas (2002). As previously noted, he joined Bill Parcells' staff in Dallas in 2003.

Rodgers spent two years working with the Cowboys' defensive tackles before taking over the full defensive line from 2005-07, surviving Parcells' departure in 2006 and working a year under Wade Phillips.

While with Dallas, the team was consistently stout against the run, finishing in the top 10 four of five years, allowing no more than 4.2 yards per carry during the stretch and holding opponents under 4.0 yards three seasons.

Rodgers' ability to maximize a team's pass rush started to show up during his final season in Dallas, when the team dumped opposing quarterbacks behind the line 46 times. That carried to Miami, as the team finished in the top 10 in sacks all seven years, averaging 41 per season.

The same can be said about the past six seasons in Tampa, where the team again finished in the top 10 in sacks all six seasons. The consistency of the production is remarkable. The team ranged between 45 and 48 sacks during the past five seasons.

In terms of run defense, Rodgers' units have been less consistent with a mix of great and average production. Buccaneers opponents averaged 3.8 yards or fewer in three of his six seasons, but 4.3 or more in the other three, including in 2024.

In between his stints with the two Florida franchises, Rodgers coordinated the Jets defender for four seasons. He started off strong, leading a top 10 unit in 2015, but the team finished bottom 10 in scoring the next three seasons before Bowles and his staff were dismissed.

Players he’s worked with

At each NFL stop, Rodgers has worked with some outstanding talent.

Starting in Dallas, he inherited defensive tackle La'Roi Glover, a two-time All-Pro. Under Rodgers' tutelage, Glover's dominance continued into his early 30s, with another All-Pro selection and three consecutive Pro Bowl nods before he bolted to join the Rams.

Also, in Dallas, Rodgers was tasked with maximizing a pair of first-round picks, defensive ends Marcus Spears and DeMarcus Ware. Despite some injury issues, Spears was a consistently good run defender early in his career, while Ware earned All-Pro honors all three seasons he worked with Rodgers, kickstarting a Hall of Fame career.

In terms of development, Rodgers squeezed productive seasons out of Chris Canty, a fourth-round selection in 2005, and Jason Hatcher, a third-rounder in 2006.

That ability to develop talent became more apparent in Miami as he took CFL standout Cameron Wake and made him an instant All-Pro, squeezed more pass-rush production out of defensive tackle Randy Starks after the Dolphins signed him away from the Titans, and turned third-round pick Olivier Vernon into a double-digit sack producer in his second season, eventually leading to a massive free-agency offer from the New York Giants.

Arguably, Rodgers' greatest triumph was turning Shaquil Barrett into a pass-rushing standout. After some OK years in Denver, Barrett joined the Buccaneers in 2019 and recorded 19.5 sacks that season. He added 18.0 more in the next two years, earning Pro Bowl honors in 2019 and 2021.

More recently, Rodgers has Yaya Diaby trending toward a bright future. The second-year edge rusher racked up an impressive 70 QB pressures in 2024 while tallying 12.0 sacks through two seasons.

In terms of managing star power, Rodgers has seen it all, starting with Ware and Wake. He's had the pleasure of coaching star nose tackle Via Vea, Ndamukong Suh, Jason Pierre-Paul, Leonard Floyd and Muhammad Wilkerson at various stages in their respective careers.

If you're looking for notable disappointments, there's Dion Jordan in Miami and Joe Tryon-Shoyinka in Tampa. It's admittedly tough to pin Jordan on Rodgers. The No. 3 pick in 2013 accomplished little as a rookie and then had the first of two PED suspensions to start the following season, eventually leading to a one-year ban and his exit from Miami in 2017, long after Rodgers was gone.

As for Tryon-Shoyinka, a first-round pick for Tampa in 2021, he hasn't tallied more than 5.0 sacks in his first four seasons with 33 or fewer QB pressures in three of those four campaigns.

What he’ll inherit in Detroit

You can soon add Hutchinson to that list of stars coached by Rodgers. The former No.2 pick was on the early track to win the league’s Defensive Player of the Year this season before a broken leg abruptly ended his campaign.

Rodgers will also eventually get his hands on Alim McNeill, once he fully recovers from a torn ACL suffered in December. The former third-round pick has slowly but surely developed into one of the league’s better 3-techs.

There’s also some untapped production in Josh Paschal, a former second-rounder who embraced his physicality under Williams’ tutelage but fell short of putting everything together in his third season.

Lions fans will undoubtedly be interested in whether Rodgers will be the guy to unlock Brodric Martin’s potential. Williams seemingly had the developmental nose tackle trending in the right direction before that momentum was derailed by a hyperextended knee toward the end of training camp. The toolsy 6-foot-5, 330-pounder has only seen 53 defensive snaps through two seasons.

The rest of the depth chart is unsettled. The team has a decision to make regarding whether to bring back D.J. Reader, the long-productive nose tackle who was up-and-down in his first season in Detroit after coming back from a torn quad. There are also cap considerations with veteran Za’Darius Smith. The trade deadline addition has a non-guaranteed $12 million remaining on the contract the Lions inherited.

Other pieces, such as Levi Onwuzurike, Marcus Davenport and Pat O’Connor — who was coached by Rodgers in Tampa for several seasons — are pending free agents, leaving room for changes, whether via free agency or the draft.

 

[BobbyLayne]

4th DL coach Hutch has had.

• Todd Walsh
• John Scott
• Terrell Williams
• Kacy Rodgers

Justin Rogers disclosed on his podcast that a year ago (2023 season), when it first looked like AG might get a HC gig, he talked to a number of veterans about Kelvin Sheppard as a DC candidate. The consensus then was he has some hard edges to work on, he’s always at volume 11, players felt like he was a bit lacking in self-awareness. You have to have the ability to both motivate and cajole, and he maybe doesn’t know when to dial it back.

From a football acumen perspective, he’s definitely ready. He was a Mike and understands every aspect of the defensive philosophy.

 

[msudaisy26]

Very surprised that GM Brad Holmes spoke for so long and not once did bring up the "Hendon Hooker Situation"

That’s an interesting catch. I don’t think there’s any issue about Goff being the starter.
Also don’t think there was any mention of Vaki either. My point being that there has been previous positive press about both Vaki and Hooker. I didn’t take much from Bridgewater being made # 2 QB. I think both Vaki and Hooker continue to be in the Lions future plans.

Define future? I don't think Hooker has any future in Detriot unless there is an injury or he wants to be the backup for a other 5ish years.

 

[Da Guru]

Very surprised that GM Brad Holmes spoke for so long and not once did bring up the "Hendon Hooker Situation"

That’s an interesting catch. I don’t think there’s any issue about Goff being the starter.
Also don’t think there was any mention of Vaki either. My point being that there has been previous positive press about both Vaki and Hooker. I didn’t take much from Bridgewater being made # 2 QB. I think both Vaki and Hooker continue to be in the Lions future plans.

Define future? I don't think Hooker has any future in Detriot unless there is an injury or he wants to be the backup for a other 5ish years.

That was a joke on my part. Holmes committed to Goff again so unless Goff gets hurt Hooker might be the backup or third QB next season. If Hooker shows something they might be able to trade him to a needy team but he is so unproven Lions won`t get much back.

 

[swabs]

Looks like Hank is sticking around. At least somebody didn't leave....

 

[BobbyLayne]

Looks like Hank is sticking around. At least somebody didn't leave....

That's great news.

Lions are promoting Hank Fraley to run game coordinator/offensive line coach, per source.

An important piece of the puzzle staying in Detroit as Dan Campbell remodels his staff following the departure of both coordinators.

 

[Zeppelin]

Looks like Hank is sticking around. At least somebody didn't leave....

That's great news.

Lions are promoting Hank Fraley to run game coordinator/offensive line coach, per source.

An important piece of the puzzle staying in Detroit as Dan Campbell remodels his staff following the departure of both coordinators.

Fraley is the best position coach we have. Really glad to see him stay.

 

[Zeppelin]

WRs coach Antwaan Randle El is going to the Bears along with assistant QB coach J.T. Barrett.

 

[Da Guru]

WRs coach Antwaan Randle El is going to the Bears along with assistant QB coach J.T. Barrett.

There is such a thing as an assistant QB coach?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

WRs coach Antwaan Randle El is going to the Bears along with assistant QB coach J.T. Barrett.

There is such a thing as an assistant QB coach?

I thought that was Teddy's main job.

 

[BobbyLayne]

@RapSheet

The Lions are promoting LBs coach Kelvin Sheppard to defensive coordinator, filling the shoes of Aaron Glenn, per me and @MikeGarafolo.

A quick rise for the eight-year NFL veteran, Sheppard earns a DC job in only his third season under Dan Campbell.

 

[BobbyLayne]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Anyone else heard the speculation that promoting Fraley to run game coordinator could indicate Scottie Montgomery is getting the OC job? And that if Engstrand got passed over he could join Ben in Chicago?

 

[Zeppelin]

Anyone else heard the speculation that promoting Fraley to run game coordinator could indicate Scottie Montgomery is getting the OC job? And that if Engstrand got passed over he could join Ben in Chicago?

I don't the two are related. I think they badly wanted to keep Hank Fraley and giving him a promotion was the best way to do it.

 

[Snotbubbles]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

Luvu is a dirty player.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Promotion for Shaun Dion Hamilton, who will go from assistant LB coach to taking over the room. He's worked side by side with Shep the last few years.

 

[Moonlight]

@RapSheet

The Lions are promoting LBs coach Kelvin Sheppard to defensive coordinator, filling the shoes of Aaron Glenn, per me and @MikeGarafolo.

A quick rise for the eight-year NFL veteran, Sheppard earns a DC job in only his third season under Dan Campbell.

Surprised about Sheppard. Just read that there were concerns about his being overly intense.

 

[Moonlight]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

Luvu is a dirty player.

That dirty hit may have made a difference in the game. Teach Goff not to throw INTs.

 

[kutta]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

It’s weird how a kid goofing off and going a bit overboard on a celebration gets fined more than a guy who laid out a QB on an obviously dirty hit.

 

[Moonlight]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

It’s weird how a kid goofing off and going a bit overboard on a celebration gets fined more than a guy who laid out a QB on an obviously dirty hit.

How many times has Luvu been previously fined compared to Jamo or suspended?

It might have something to do with it? Lions owe Luvu though.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

From the department of wage garnishments:

Jameson Williams got hit with a 25k fine for humping the end zone after scoring on the reverse.

And Frankie Luvu got popped for ~$17K for his hit on Goff on the interception return and another ~17K for a hip drop tackle 40 seconds later.

It’s weird how a kid goofing off and going a bit overboard on a celebration gets fined more than a guy who laid out a QB on an obviously dirty hit.

How many times has Luvu been previously fined compared to Jamo or suspended?

It might have something to do with it? Lions owe Luvu though.

That was my thought, too. Repeat offenders typically get harsher punishments, even if the underlying offense wasn’t as bad

 

[Da Guru]

Even if Lions won last week the not sure they would beat the Eagle team we watched today. Been a tough matchup with a banged up defense..

 

[kutta]

Even if Lions won last week the not sure they would beat the Eagle team we watched today. Been a tough matchup with a banged up defense..

Would have been a completely different game in Detroit.
I was bummed watching the game and realizing how beatable the Commanders are.

 

[Zeppelin]

Even if Lions won last week the not sure they would beat the Eagle team we watched today. Been a tough matchup with a banged up defense..

Would have been a completely different game in Detroit.
I was bummed watching the game and realizing how beatable the Commanders are.

Amazing what happens when you play the 30th ranked run defense and actually RUN the ball.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Even if Lions won last week the not sure they would beat the Eagle team we watched today. Been a tough matchup with a banged up defense..

Would have been a completely different game in Detroit.
I was bummed watching the game and realizing how beatable the Commanders are.

Amazing what happens when you play the 30th ranked run defense and actually RUN the ball.

I watched the last 7 minutes

that's the only football I have watched since january 18



I've followed every game on my phone....just couldn't bring myself to turning them on

they've got the right mindset, the only thing you can do is go to work....gonna be a slow year for the rest of us

---

No excuses - have to play better defense in 2025. Health was a factor in 2024 but dang it....wasted opportunity.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Revisiting a 2023 interview with Kelvin Sheppard
Allen Park — During the 2023 offseason, when it was apparent Kelvin Sheppard was a coach on the rise, I had the opportunity to sit down with him for more than an hour at the Detroit Lions practice facility to dig into his background, present and future.

That resulted in a feature I wrote for the Detroit News, which is still worth your time if you have a subscription to my former employer.

Now that Sheppard has been promoted to serve as Detroit's defensive coordinator, I thought I'd share the full transcript of that conversion to better highlight how Sheppard sees the game and the influences that have shaped that thinking.



Question: As a player, you had seven stints with six teams across an eight-year career. How do you think that instability and constant need to adapt helped prepare you for coaching?

Sheppard: “Oh, it's been a tremendous help because guys don't want the 'journeyman' career. I never spent more than two and a half years with one team. So having to go in, with the position I played, I always wore the green dot and called the defense. Whenever I got there, and I took pride in it, I had to know everything.

“But that actually started before the NFL. A lot of people don't really know this, people in football do, but it happened in college. I went into college, (Bo) Pelini was my position coach. He was in the room with me every day and he was the coordinator, so I had everything right there. It was a one-stop stop. Then coach (John) Chavis, Chief, came in my junior year. At that point, I was the middle linebacker. Everyone on campus knew I was the middle linebacker. I remember Chief came in, he was this short, angry guy and he's like, 'Come see me in my office.' I'm like, 'For what?' Then I went up and talked to him and he presented this thing to me where we had four linebackers he deemed as starters and he had to find a way for all four to play when he could only play three at a time.

“I'm like, 'Why the f___ you got me in your office because I'm playing. I don't know why you brought me in here.' He's like, 'Calm down. You're the one that I trust the most. That's why you're in here. Has anybody ever talked to you about conceptual learning' I'm like, 'What do you mean, conceptual learning?' He said, 'Conceptual. Not learning the plays, but the full concept.' I said, 'No, nobody has every taught it to me that way, but I've always tried to learn that way. What does this have to do with me?'

“He's like, what I'm thinking of doing is starting you at middle linebacker. Second series of the game, you go to Sam. The third series of the game, you go to Will. Fourth series you take off. Then you come back in and do it all over again.' I'm not going to lie, I was like, 'What? No.'“

Question: You weren’t about to agree to coming off the field every four series, were you?

Sheppard: “You know it. I'd rather compete and whoever wins the jobs wins the jobs. He's like, 'I knew you were going to say it.' He said, 'I know we just met, but you've got to trust me. You're smart enough to do this.' Looking back, it's the best thing I ever did. Because going in and having to know all three linebacker spots opened my mind to learning everything and I found it allowed me to play middle linebacker faster because I knew what the other guys were doing.

“Then, my senior year, I ended up staying at the middle linebacker spot. I didn't move unless we had an injury at Will because he knew I could pop over there because my backup at Mike was better (than the backup at Will). That shifted my thought process around about learning everything from a conceptual standpoint. And being a guy who was a 4.7 guy — I wasn't a 4.4 guy — I knew I had to play faster than my 40 time.”

Question: So you had to make up for the lack of elite speed by developing instincts through understanding the bigger conceptual picture?

Sheppard: “There you go. Once I started doing that, I attacked the league with that mindset. It just allowed me to be a great teammate, first and foremost. Anybody who has played with me — now I've got (Jalen Reeves Maybin) back in the room. Jerm used to sit next to me in team meetings. I had (Jarrad Davis) last year, I had Romeo (Okwara). I helped each one of those guys as teammates because I understood the full picture. I think, without question, that helped me the most, as far as being able to teach players and teach them concept learning versus, I play this position, what does my position do on this play.”

Question: So your view of conceptual learning isn’t just limited to the linebacker play, but the entire defense?

Sheppard: “Absolutely not. All my linebackers will tell you, the first thing we do in my meetings, which is unique. David Correa, who was a linebacker assistant when I was in Miami and is now my assistant here has said, 'I've never seen anybody teach the way you do and I've been in the league for 14 years.' When I've got a guy like Josh Woods, who has been in other programs tell me, 'I've never seen a coach teach the way you do, Shep.' And I tell them all when it comes to that stuff, I'm no guru, but I believe in development, no matter the player.

“I think I've said this, my biggest achievement as far as development, everybody looks at (Malcolm Rodriguez) because he was a rookie, but to me, it was Alex (Anzalone). If you turn on his tape in 2021, compared to 2022, it's two different players. And it starts with him, but he has to believe in what I'm saying and what I'm doing for him to have that jump that he had. And when Alex tells me, 'Coach, you're a hell of a teacher. I've never been prepared for games like this.' That's when I get my flowers. It's not from the media praising Rodrigo. I give him that credit. But when a veteran who has been in the league for six years tells me your teaching styles work — and it's because I introduce everything.

“We just started (offseason) meetings and the first thing I talked to them about was the defensive line: The fronts, what are the alignments, how are they attacking offensive linemen, how does that affect our alignments, how are linemen going to come off the ball predicated on where the d-lineman is aligned. And some guys are like, 'What the f___?'

“I'm really into conceptual learning. I don't always go into depth as I'm doing know, because I'm not looking to tell everybody what I'm doing, but I'm big on conceptual learning. It's literally breaking down every part of the defense and going from the ground up, which to me is the d-line, and working your way back. If they understand the d-line, they understand why I'm telling them to make sure they're in a 10 (alignment). Because it's pulling the center. It makes sense to them instead of just giving them a play and saying, 'OK, the Mike does this. The Will does this.' I'm a big believer that a coach isn't coaching if they can't tell you why.”

Question: That’s the key word isn’t it? Why?

Sheppard: Why? And the biggest thing I love about this Jack Campbell, he's texting my phone right now, he wants to know why. I said, 'Let me tell you something, you're my kind of guy.' Unfortunately, I've had coaches and heard coaches who run away from why? 'Why? Because I said so.'

“To me, no disrespect, you're not a good coach. Because you said so? These are grown men. What do you mean because you said so? That's how I look at this. We have a mutually beneficial relationship. I treat these guys as my co-workers, because I was co-workers with some of them. I always put myself in their seat and then take it down to conceptual learning. Break down the d-line, then we get to linebacker play. Then they understand why the alignments are so detailed. Why can't I get off the spot faster here versus I need to be more patient here? Then we take it to the back end, which you have to know as a linebacker because of coverage. Most linebackers can tell you they're a curl/flat drop, but they can't tell you why they're a curl/flat dropper. What is the corner doing? Why when it's a wheel, can I drop it versus letting it go? But when you understand what the corners and safeties are doing, to me, now you can cheat things in coverage and you can play to the strengths of the defense and understand where the weak spots are.

“Those are things, I'm going to be honest, I taught myself as a player. And it started with coach Chavis, Chief.”

Question: Do you think more “modern” coaching is receptive to teaching the why?

Sheppard: “When I first got in the NFL, and even in college, it was 'Because I said so.' And when that's what you're accustomed to, you think that's OK. But I tell the players, 'If a coach can't tell you why, he's not coaching.'

“You ask me, anybody with any kind of educational background can teach a playbook. That's not coaching, giving somebody a bunch of information. Coaching is teaching. I feel like I'm a teacher. And what is a teacher good at? They're good at taking a complex thing and simplifying it to a point where everyone can understand. I've got to make sure that a player who is raw coming out of Jackson State, like James Houston, understands just as well as Alex Anzalone. I can't just cater to Alex. I've seen that from coaches where they think the (experienced) vet gets it, so everybody should get it. I'm really against it, and coaches will tell you I'm the same way I am with everybody. The players reject that.”

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question: How receptive have some of the roster’s younger players been to your conceptual approach or has general manager Brad Holmes specifically targeted that type of learner?

Sheppard: “It's now a part of the process. I inherited the room, obviously. First year we had a different coach, who I respect in coach (Mark) DeLeone, but he liked different things than me. That's neither here nor there. Now, what Brad has done — and I love the cohesion with the front office, knowing what I like, what I want, the type of players because they know how I teach — but conceptual learning, once again, if you look at it in the broad spectrum, it's a lot.

“If you break it down — and I'm not patting myself on the back — you look at the way I do it and you see a player like Derrick Barnes now sitting in the meeting rooms and telling everyone what's going on. When I got Derrick Barnes — and he'll tell you this — if you motioned somebody, it was like you just set off a bomb. I'm like, 'Derrick, all they did was create 3-by-1 after starting 2-by-2. Do you see it?' You have to be calm and teach. It's about your tone. It's about the respect level. Yeah, there's some yelling and cursing, too, but the respect is there because they know I'm in this for the greater good for them. And if you break it down, to the d-line, most linebackers will say, 'Why do I have to know about the d-line?' Well, when I'm telling you to get in a 10 (alignment) and you ask me why, that's why you need to know about the d-line. If you understand that, you already know why.

“And when I'm talking to you about coverage, why you can't overextend here vs. overextend there, it's because you have safety help, you have the corner. If you don't know that, you're just out there trying to ‘do my job’ not knowing you're stressing yourself out when you don't need to. Relax when you go to that side because you're gaining help, or I have to be more pressed when I go to this side because I have no help over here. Once you start to show players that — and the final piece is them getting out there and doing it, feeling the progression, then you got them.

“I tell people, there's no secrets here, all players, all coaches, they want money. If you're able to help players get that, they'll do anything you tell them. So what you're saying to them has to be credible to them going out, doing it and seeing the benefits.

“Like I said, my biggest example is Alex. Alex, mentally, he was there. It was the techniques he was doing, the tackling, the fitting, the footwork in the box he needed to clean up. Compared to Derrick, it's the opposite. He has all the (physical) attributes. He's explosive, fast, good feet, but slowing the game down. How do you slow the game down for the player? Conceptually, D Barnes, do you know what the Will is doing on this play? I'm so damn proud of that player. I know what he's put in this offseason. Now, Derrick is playing Mike and Will for me, right now. When we're out here doing a little quick walkthrough, Derrick is flipping back and forth and not blinking. That wouldn't happen if he didn't understand when he's at Mike, what is my Will doing this play? Now what is the safety doing? He's out there and it's a joy to see him out there going into year three, the Will's doing this, so I can do this. I'm like, 'There you go!'

Question: You really had to dial things back to build them back up with Barnes, didn’t you?

Sheppard: “Absolutely. And Brad, that's how in tune we are. This is obviously my first NFL job, but as a player, I haven't really seen a front office this involved, this in tune with the actual football side of things. They can get so caught up in scouting and trying to manage the roster, but Brad seeing that (development) with Derrick and stopping me near the kitchen and saying, 'Shep, I like that ****. I see it.' You're taking something off. Instead of forcing him into 40 or 50 plays and you're pissed off at 30 of them, let him play 15 or 20. And if that gets really good, take him to 25-30. To me, that's the other part as a coach. It's like multiple jobs as a position coach, but one of the biggest is managing your room and understanding your room, optimizing players to what they do best.

“Chris Board is a good example. He's a guy who isn't diagnosing at the highest level because he hasn't had a lot of time on task. He played nickel at North Dakota State. I do my research on these players. People just throw things out about them, but I want to know why. That's an explosive, fast player. He's smart when I talk to him. When I talk to him, he's saying, 'Shep, we're doing stuff I've never heard before. I've just been told I can cover, so go cover this guy.' Yeah, he could cover, but I told him to not let people limit him to that.

“I tell my guys, 'I'm going to do my best to make sure you all have a role at the game.' I think that's something the players appreciate, when they see a coach going out of his way to script things. And during the game, on the sideline, I have to be in tune to the situation. OK, it's third-and-six-plus, get Board in there. It's first-and-10, Malcolm and Alex. OK, this package, D Barnes and Alex go. Knowing when and where to do that stuff, and having a coordinator who gives me that flexibility, because I've also heard a lot of coordinator are not like AG, allowing their coaches that ability.

“When you tell your coordinator why your making those substitutions, he's like, 'OK, I like it. As long as they know what they're doing, I'm good.' I'm big on the word ‘why’ in this profession. I should be able to tell AG why. I should be able to tell Dan when he asks me why am I doing this drill. I can't tell him, 'Because I want to.'

Question: Your best season, as a player, was 2015 in Miami. That’s the year Dan Campbell served as interim coach. Why do you think thinks clicked at a different level for you that season?

Sheppard: “That's the most I ever played in my eight-year career. I'll be transparent, before Dan took over, they had me rotating. For what reason, I don't know. All my teammates knew I was the best linebacker there. I ran the defense. (Mike) Poucney, Rashad Jones, it drove them nuts. You ask (Ndamukong) Suh how much he liked when I left the field. He went crazy.

“But I'm not a guy to have confrontation my coaches. If they feel it's right and I think it's not right, I know my role and my place. As soon as Dan took over, he came to me and said, 'Can you explain to me this rotation and what you were told?' I gave him the ******** synopsis they gave me coming out of camp. He's like, 'That's done. You're wearing the green dot and you're not leaving the field. I already talked to (defensive coordinator) Lou (Anarumo).' That's my guy. All my former d-coordinators, I'm like this with. He's like, "I already talked to Lou and he agrees, you're not leaving the field.' So to be honest, I had more opportunities. As a linebacker, it's hard when you're playing 20 snaps in Week 1, 40 in Week 2, 15 in Week 3.

“Those things stick with me and helps me be a better coach when it comes to managing my players. You have to be honest with the player. My players will tell you probably too honest at times. But any player who sits in my room, I guarantee you they don't question anything going on in this building. They don't question where they stand with this roster — why they're with the twos or threes — they don't question why they got three reps, because they're told up front. Whether it's a practice or a game, I haven't had one player since I've been coaching, who goes into a game not knowing his role, going into a game thinking he's playing 50 snaps and playing five. That stuff happened to me and I'm firmly against it. It messes with the mental state of a player and that's the little stuff I think makes a player go the extra mile.

“There's no science to this. I know everyone wants credit for being innovative and smart. I don't try to create that perception. I've heard others say I'm one of the smartest they've been in the room with when it comes to football, but I don't want to be that guy. I want to be a real guy who is honest with his players. I know the knowledge I have. But being smart doesn't make you a good coach.

“That's a message I try to share with my peers. What impresses me is how many of your players can get on the board. That's the stuff that fires me up, when I have a first-year player come in and AG quizzes them and I start smiling. Because they're not going to just answer the question, they're going to tell him why and the full picture. That's the stuff that really gives me joy. A player knowing his job, you get paid a handsome ransom to know you're the hook dropper. That doesn't impress me. Knowing what you're supposed to do and you want a cookie for that? I can get anybody to read the playbook and remember what that player is supposed to do. That's not the same. With players like D Barnes, when you see jumps, it's when they figure that piece out. It's not just about me, especially at linebacker. It slows down the game, which in turn speeds up their play.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question: You briefly worked with a youth football in Florida. How old were those kids?

Sheppard: “They were nine. It was the 9U team, so some eight and nine year olds.”

Question: Why did that opportunity appeal to you?

Sheppard: “I always make sure to give Steve Spagnuolo, Dan Campbell and Lou Anarumo credit. Fitzy. (Devin) Fitzsimmons, who was here, on special teams. Those people saw it (coaching potential) in me when I was playing. I always make sure to credit them. I could call all four right now. One is right down the hall. I tell them, I appreciate you. They saw it in me before I even thought about coaching. They told me I should coach when I was playing. I used to tell them, and we laugh about it now, 'No chance.' When I'm done, and I've given this game a lot, I'm going to relax. Being with those kids in 2019, and seeing the impact you have on people as a coach. That's what I tell my players. All this stuff ties in, all my thought process.

“Coaches don't understand the impact you have on a human being, on their livelihood, I don't care what level you're at. When you're dealing with 9U kids, you're not just teaching them the fundamentals of the game, you're teaching them a lot of life lessons. Football teaches you a lot of life lessons. Seeing those young kids growing throughout the year, hearing their parents feedback to me.

“It's the impact for me. To me, I've accomplished a lot of things. If I showed you my goals list, I pretty much hit on all of them besides becoming an All-Pro and playing 10-plus years. I fell short of that by two years and didn't win a championship as a player. I plan on winning one as a coach. But I won one in college at LSU. I graduated from college. Had a eight-year career, have accomplished a lot of things I deemed as goals. And I had to remake my goals. But after a while, after you've checked off so many, what joy are you getting out of life? You have to find that. That's what players have to deal with in retirement. I think it f____ them up, to be honest. They don't know where to go for joy.

“I had teammates who made really good money, way more than I could ever fathom, and they're miserable right now. I know players searching, exploring a bunch of stuff and what they're in search of is — it's the competitive nature that gave them joy. I tell my guys, 'You're searching for joy.' All your life, this is what gave you joy. For me, now, the game of football I love, but it's the people. And it's being able to shape someone's livelihood at this level. Your impacting not only them, but their entire family. A player like Alex Anzalone signs a deal like he just signed, his family is set. That's the reality of it. He had money, but that type of contract, he's good now. That's where I'm like, 'Yes!' I tell my players, 'I haven't done my job if I don't get you that second contract.' Chris Board, two years, $7 million, yes!

“When you're able to impact a human like that, that brings me joy. Some of my family gets sick of it, I'm up here 15, 16 hours, but I'm leaving no stone unturned. I know if I lose this way, I'm good. And when I say lose, I mean my player doesn't perform or he misses a read or a play, and I know in my heart I prepared him for that. I can sleep with that.

My job in life is helping other people, giving them things I never had, making sure my players don't have to go through things I went through as a player. I'm no guru. I tell my guys, I kept all the good **** I liked as a player, all the **** I didn't, I don't bring that. It's as simple as that. I build from that, guys. And I'm very open with them, which they appreciate.

Question: Before you came here, what were doing player development at LSU What did you learn during that year?

Sheppard: “It's funny because the most joy I got out of that job was the player development stuff. Nothing about football. If you didn't have that, those kids weren't getting to the game. That's how it was in my mind. I had kids sleep at my house, cry on my couch, cry on my office. Even if you can only save one of those kids, to me, you've done your job.

“That's why I say there's different levels in coaching. I hope college coaches understand that. You have to understand you're still developing young men. They're not grown. I know the NIL, they're getting paid, but they're not grown. An 18 year old is not ready for the real world. But when they get to college, for some reason, our society deems you a grown man and you should know what to do. How? Three months ago you were in high school.

Question: That sounds like a mentally exhausting job.

Sheppard: “It can be. Football is one thing, but the harder part of being a college coach is managing all the other ****. Is he eligible? I call ******** on that. What is that a 2.0? I'm not here to get you eligible. I'm here to make sure you're leaving with a piece of paper.

“And teaching them how to talk to people. Stuff that I wish, at 18, somebody said to me. Instead it was football, football, football, you're only here for football. Go to class, but get back to football. I was focused on teaching them to be a man, essentially, things that are going to carry them further than the game.

“I actually found more joy in helping a player from that aspect. I felt like I was giving back to my university in a way. The football came easy to me.”

Question: Was it difficult leaving that job, knowing the impact you could have on those young men?

Sheppard: “Yes. It definitely way, but I had to make a decision, I had to get a little selfish. I'll tell you this, and a lot of people don't know this, but the AD at LSU knows this because they called me in after I took this job. If LSU had offered me their linebacker job when it was open and available and I was still there, there's a good chance I wouldn't be here. When I took the job at LSU, I really thought there was a good chance I'd be in Baton Rogue for 20, 25 years. That's how I go into things. I have no intention of leaving Detroit. I go into things to finish it.

“Now, I have aspirations. I want to be a d-coordinator and head coach. I don't shy away from that. I've told Dan that. Dan knew that, but I reaffirmed that. And AG asked me. I don't shy away from that. And I can be honest with them about that because they're very secure men. With insecure men, you can't just walk into the head coaches office saying I want to be a coordinator, a head coach. 'Hell, whose job are you taking because somebody has to get fired for that to happen.' But when I'm able to work for two men like that, who encourage those goals, who remind me you are going to be that, I'm glad LSU didn't give me that linebacker coach interview. I'm glad I didn't get that opportunity. That was God holding me back for something better here.

“You kind of go from a place to where you feel at home to going to Detroit. Oof. I know Dan, but there's a lot of questions, a lot of uncertainty. But here I feel wanted, really wanted. He said, 'I want you on this staff. I don't know what you're going to do yet, but I want you on this staff.'

“By the time they brought me in here, I was coming to say yes. They didn't know it. They could have told me I was just going to help out and I would have taken that, just because of the trust I had in Dan and because I felt wanted. They sought me out when I felt like I was in a place I had give four and a half years as a player, and then I was back doing something I honestly didn't have to do. I never complained. You would have never known I played in the NFL.

“I don't view myself as a former NFL player. I'm a person who was fortunate enough to be able to do that as a profession. I try to live with humility. It's just who I am. I don't view myself as bigger than anybody. I can be the head coach, I could be the owner of this team, I would still dress the same way, talk the same way, walk the halls the same way. I think when you exude that type of energy, over time, people will gravitate to you and hear what you have to say and want to be around you.”

Question: How valuable is it to have some more veteran coaches around you?

Sheppard: “It was unbelievable. I literally just told Shaun Dion Hamilton, the way I am with him. He's like, 'I appreciate you, man.' I'm like, 'What do you mean?' He's like, 'I know you don't have to do what you're doing, sitting with me, teaching.' I said, 'Let me tell you something, I have Dom f______ Capers doing this for me. An NFL legend. I'm not anybody. ****. Me and you, we're peers. I had Todd Wash, when he didn't have to, give me the flexibility after he saw my work.' 'Oh Shep, we don't have to keep this (arrangement). You can take the d-ends and coach them, coach the OLBs and I'll take the interior guys.' To have a guy like coach Wash trust me like that, teach me.

“They knew I wasn’t trying trying to take from them. People often go into these situations looking what they can take from somebody. Genuine relationships, not wanting anything, just working together. That's how you get things done.”

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question: Where have you experienced the most growth since joining this staff?

Sheppard: “The biggest jump for me was my understanding of d-line play. I credit Todd Wash. What Todd Wash did for me, from a d-line perspective — and he'll hate that I'm telling you this, but I thank him for it all the time. He'll say, 'What are you talking about? That's my job.' But like I do with Shaun Dion now, he didn't have to do that. You don't have to take an hour or two out of your day for me to sit in your office and have you tell me the whys of the defensive line play.

“I promise you, you can go around the entire NFL and do a poll of linebackers, there's only a small percentage who truly know what the defensive line is doing in front of them. This would be shocking to a fan, but people in football know this. It's just not taught. Why, you don't always have the time. To be honest, it's a lot of stuff. But breaking it down, simplifying it in fewer words. That's why David Correa always says, 'Less is more.' The less words you need to say, the more you can teach.

“I'm against having a big, complex dictionary. They won't understand, I can promise you that. And you're just saying a bunch a stuff, when you can say three or four words and the players will grasp it better.”

Question: Do you find you have to teach different players different ways?

Sheppard: “That's a great question. Ham(ilton) asks about structuring the meetings, and probably the biggest learning curve from a player going into coaching, it's building it out so everybody gets it. I try to build my PowerPoints for multiple people. I have the cover page, my bullet points, bap, bap, bap. Then I show it to you with four pictures. That's for my visual learners. Then I double that slide with an eight-box for my conceptual learners. Then I always back it up what I give them in words in video. After that, we hit the video. I make them call the defense based on alignments I show them.

“I've sat in a lot of rooms with linebacker coaches saying everything and guys are just listening. The way you truly learn is when you're breaking it down and developing someone is writing and speaking. The learner is writing and speaking. It's unique to be able to learn by just listening. So those guys know they damn well better not come into my room without a notepad and pen.

“On top of that, I let them run the meeting once we get to the video. I gave you the information, you should know how to close the front, you should where the safety is rotating. I turn the table on them.

“D-Barnes, that's my guy. And people might wonder, where is he going to fit this year? Just hold on. We'll see. There will be a role for him if he shows, on tape, the improvements I think we'll see.”

Question: And this is all part of the approach to getting them to understanding the why?

Sheppard: “100%. There you go. It's essentially grooming them to be able to call the game. We get to a point on Friday where I turn on tape of the opponent and we just play it. I say, 'You're up. First-and-10, make the call.' You got the game plan all week. They don't have it out, in front of them. You should know it by then. And they make the calls. And I'll be damned, they damn near started calling it to a point how AG would call the games.

'It's first-and-10, 12 personnel, what do you think AG is going to call right now?' Bap, bap, bap. 'Why?' 'Because, coach, we think it’s a 50/50 down.' 'OK, it's second-and-9, what do you think AG is calling here.' Bap, bap, bap. 'Why?' 'Because, coach, this is a passing down.' Then you're getting to a point where the headset might go out, and most team have an emergency call, just one call, but I'm trying to get my guys to a point where there's no emergency call, it's first-and-10, it's 12 personnel, all right, let's go.'

“It's what Ben Johnson's alluding to with the quarterback. It's not just knowing the play, but the whys within the play. Now you're getting to the point why we're calling calls based on personnel and situation.”

Question: This isn’t just about the guy wearing the green dot. You’re talking about every player in the room?

Sheppard: “Absolutely. I cross train all my players, Mike and Will. Some guys will say that's not a requirement, but the more you can do, the more I can trust you and the more you're probably going to play. That's something Malcolm's *** figured out early on. He jumped on that immediately and has done an exceptional job with it.”

Question: What was the approach to getting more out of veterans like Charles Harris and Anzalone?

Sheppard: “The first thing is believing in the players. You believing in the player. You have to believe in that player more than they even believe in themselves. I know he probably doesn't mind me saying this, well, he might get a little shy, but I think that's a huge thing Charles had to deal with. I think he was fighting (doubt) for the longest time, looking over his shoulder. The uncertainty. 'I'm supposed to be a first-round pick, but I'm a bust. It's not working out.' It's more than the game. To me, that's mental.

“So I get a player, the first thing I do is I read their bios. I want to know why. You were picked 15th for a reason coming out of Missouri. That wasn't a fluke. They saw something and I want to know what they saw. Then, what happened from there? So I bring the player in and having an open, closed-door conversation. I want them to open up to me because I need to know what they think, what they feel.”

Question: Do you always try to have a one-on-one meeting to get to know a player before you start coaching them?

Sheppard: “Absolutely. From the beginning. There's no guessing games with me. I'm not going to assume or guess you know something. I'm going to ask you and I'm going to make sure the positions I'm putting you in, you're comfortable with them. I'll tell you, Charles was the first one. I introduced a new style to my outside linebackers, where we're outside foot up. I had multiple coaches after my first year, Sean McVay was one of them, had his people reach out to ask what are we teaching over here with your OLB. It's violent, it's unique. That's my coaching style.

“Charles is one of those people who is used to inside foot up. Hutch is another knucklehead where he wants to flip based on what side he's on. I told him, 'You're giving them tells, Hutch.' But you have to show them why. Charles, you can be more violent. I have them get in a three-point stance, lift you hand and head up, that's the two-point stance, outside foot up. Players will tell you they're faster from a 3-point stance, so I make them show me what it looks like after they lift they're hand off the ground. That's the stance I want you in. Breaking it down as simple as that.

“Two weeks before training camp, Charles texts me and says, 'I don't know if I'm comfortable with this technique.' I said, 'Well, how about this Charles? Try it for two weeks, and if you don't like it, we can go back to what you're comfortable with.' This is Charles Harris trying to make the team, not the Charles Harris we know now. This was a guy third on the depth chart, fourth on the depth chart. He was almost an afterthought. I remind people that he's a living testament to believing in what we're doing, buying in and working his *** off. He just did it and that belief, me believing in him, him believing in me, us working together, me being honest. I'll never delete texts from Charles after games that had me literally in tears, man. It comes to fruition. You do all this work, you try to get a player to believe, they believe in you. When it works, it's a beautiful thing. To see a player get his confidence back, that is one of the most beautiful things about coaching.

“To have a high-caliber player, that's good. Having a Bobby Wagner, that's good as a coach. And you can still develop those players, too, but how much development do they need?”

“I take narratives on. It fuels me to go harder for that player. I understand. I've sat in that seat. It's like, 'Damn, no one expects me to be a starter. Do I even have a chance?' You, as a coach, needs to remind that player he has a chance.' Then showing him, if you work your *** off, I'll put you with the ones. That's what the tape says.

Question: Doesn’t Malcolm validate that forever?

Sheppard: “I take it back to if I didn't work for Dan and AG, I don't know if I'd ever have been able to pull that type of move. Just politically, that's a real thing in this game. Like, 'No, no, no, he's a special teams guy.' I've heard this stuff. You've probably seen it. That type of stuff will tear a locker room apart.”

Question: You need buy-in from the front office, too, I imagine?

Sheppard: “Oh, yes! Agreed. Justin, you are spot on. They understand my style. We play the tape. And I'm telling you, we have a lot of competition this year. More than ever. You know what I've told them, 'You've got it guys. Don't be intimidated by the 18th pick coming in the room. There's no way to hide it. There's no way around it and there's no way to hide it. But guess what? You know how I operate. When we press play, the best two or three people is who I'm putting on the field and y'all will know who is starting.'

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question: Tell me about some of the coaches who influenced you.

Sheppard: “The personable aspect, I get from Mark Duffner, my linebacker coach in Miami. That will always stick with me. He's not a senior defensive assistant for the Bengals. That man will have a job in this league as long as he wants, and the reason is he's an exceptional coach but an even better person. One of the best coaches I've ever had from that aspect. He could tell you my daughter's birthday right now and I haven't played for him since 2015. That's where I got coaching is bigger than football.

“A lot of my technique, gritty, hard-nosed stuff comes from Jeff Fitzgerald, my linebacker coach in Indianapolis. Big Baltimore background, they one know one way, putting your face on people. Hard nosed, 25-minute individual drills. You can't walk right by the time you get to team period.

“Dave Wandstat, charisma. Came into the league under Dave. Being able to touch everybody in the room and not just talk to one person. And obviously, from a leadership standpoint, Dan Campbell. I'm not taking taking away anything from coaches I had before that. And f______ Chuck Pagano, one of the best men I know.

“I've been fortunate, but I've never had a person like Dan in a team setting, point people out, look people in the eye and holding people accountable. Coaches, players, nobody is exempt. And it would be the truth, so you could feel however you want to feel, but it's the truth. Seeing that leadership presence, I guarantee you Miami still knows they made a mistake. That man should have got that job in 2016. It was a no-brainer. They asked me, and I said, 'When he took over from a player perspective, it was like the lights were off in the Dolphins facility and somebody flicked the switch.' That's how we felt as players. Everybody wore up.

“From a coordinator perspective, obviously AG, then Steve Spagnulo and Lou Anarumo. Talking to me about game planning as a player. No other coach had done that with me as a player. No other coach had done that with me in the NFL until I got to Spags in New York. Calling me early on Monday and sharing how he was thinking about attacking the Cowboys this week. Coach would say, 'You should coach' when I would give him feedback.

“I could credit a lot of people, in different ways.”

Question: How have you been helping Glenn with game planning?

Sheppard: “That's something that's grown, and is growing, tremendously. In Year one, he wanted me to focus on my baby. That's what he used to say. He knew I was a stack backer and I was out of my element a little bit being an OLB coach. But I learned and it's allowed me to be where I am now, from a philosophy standpoint and understanding d-line. I'm forever grateful for that. I used to do short-yardage my first year, when we were backed up, minimal things. Last year, he opened that up, now I'm in charge of short-yardage, the play-action pass, boot, things like that. This year, short-yardage, play-action pass, boot, a heavy-hand in the run game. All offseason, he's been asking my opinions.

“My first year, he's not going to say, but he wanted to know how I saw it as a player. Now I feel like I'm being talked to about how I see it as a coach. There's nothing wrong with that. Hell, I was wet behind the ears. I had 10 months of f______ coaching experience chasing kids. I don't blame him.

“I just finished a study for him on top-five things in a certain area. I'm not going to disclose that because the league will know what we're looking at, but I learned some good stuff and found some good things we're going to use this year. Having the man believe in me, that's a big part of it.

“I tell players, we're in a mutually beneficial relationship. Everything you want out of this game, I want. Everything I want, you want. And we both control, directly, each other getting that. So why not work together versus this being a dictatorship and me telling you because I said so and me losing you and now me only being you a coach.

Question: What do you think are the holes in your resume?

Sheppard: “That's something Dan presented me to this offseason. He said, 'I want you here.' I'm like, 'I want to be here.' He said, 'I'm hearing whispers.' I'm like, 'You ain't got to worry about anything with me brother.' Having a head coach who explains to me the profession honestly. Somebody might come calling Shep.

“To be a coordinator — the reason I was going into that is Dan reminded me you don't have to be a coordinator to be a head coach. Somebody can just see something in you and you can jump that. But if we're talking coordinator role, from an overall viewpoint, how people are attacking my defense. Everybody just throws that out there.

Question: And we’re right back to the why, just seeing it from the other side of the ball?

Sheppard: “There it is. And what I've started to do, I'll tell you full disclosure, Ben was in my office yesterday talking about stuff. I'm spending time with Tanner Engstrand. Once again, I'm not trying to take anything. I'm giving and they're giving. Mutually beneficial. If I want to sit with Tanner and all I want to know is tell me this, tell me this, tell me that. After a while, it would be, 'Hell, Shep, you only come to my office when you want to know something.' Genuinely talking ball with them and talking defensive perspective.

From a grand scheme, I do feel like I could call a game. But when people start to attack you, making halftime adjustments, what adjustments are you making and why are you making them? As far as third down, attacking protections. That's probably the biggest thing. When people are attacking my defense, how and why are they attacking it that way and what adjustments am I going to make? And when it comes to third down, attacking protections, which is something, over the past year, I've been learning a lot about.

“That comes from my first year, first of all, knowing every protection. Then growing into how to attack those protections with certain pressures.”

Question: Brad Holmes has invested a lot in the team’s linebackers. How much pressure comes with it and do you enjoy that pressure?

Sheppard: “I coached a $90 million player my first year in the league who I had to put on the bench for a player making $1 million. People shy away from that. I don't at all. I'm playing the best people. AG knows that. I understand with the media, outside this building, and maybe even with the front office, when you take a player at 18, no f______ doubt, I'm not going to lie — if I'm Brad, 18th pick, I'm expecting something. You know what I mean? He might not be an All-Pro, but I better see something.

“I don't hide from that. I've had coaches sit in a room when a player goes in the first or second round, 'Hey, don't worry about it, you're still going to be the starter.' What? Don't tell them that. 'Guys, we got a guy with the 18th pick. We understand how the NFL works. What are you going to do about it?' You have to make it undeniable, just like Charles Harris had to do that. And to have real-life examples sitting in there while I'm saying this stuff (helps). Charles had to make it undeniable why I'm sitting a $16 million player. Put it on tape.

“I'll tell you, after my brief conversations with Jack, it's going to be tough sledding (for the other guys), but it's going to make them all better. It truly is. It's going to make the entire room better. I'm not shying away from it. The first person I thought about when we took the player was Derrick Barnes.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Question: Why Derrick?

Sheppard: “I was worried about the coexistence. If I'm Derrick Barnes, I'm sitting at home, looking at guys getting drafted, I want to be excited about my new teammates, but we just took a guy who directly affects me. And I know that feeling. People want to shy away from that ****, but it's the worse thing you can do. Because that player, Derrick Barnes, he texts me at 12:23 a.m. on draft night. And as soon as we took Jack, I was sitting in the defensive staff room and I was f______ excited. It's a great f______ player. He's cerebral, tough, everything you want in a linebacker, but I'm compassionate to my guys, guys I've put in long hours with.

“First thing I'm like, 'Damn, this is the NFL, boy.' That's my literal words. It's the NFL and it's not friendly to anybody. I was like, damn, D Barnes. I turned around and looked at the depth chart and thought we just signed Alex back, Malcolm's here, so if I'm Derrick, I'm thinking, '****, where do I fit in?' Sure enough, at 12:23, he texts me and I hit it head on. I said, 'There's no denying it, no doubt about it, I want you to know, you're going to compete and you're going to get a fair shake.' Now, fair is a land where they judge pigs. 'But you've got to make it undeniable. And if he wins the job, it doesn't mean you're not developing and you're not a good player.' I told him this, 'If you put it on tape, do you trust that I'm going to find a role for you in the games?' 'Yes sir.' The conversation is over then. Forget Jack Campbell, even if we didn't take Jack, you'd have to beat out Malcolm and Alex. They've already proven they earned the jobs last year.

“When I started talking to him like that, he's like, 'Shep, I appreciate you.' The next day, he sent me a text and he's ready to get his *** to work. What else are you going to do? Nothing has happened yet, injuries occur. God forbid, Jack could show up and not be what we thought he was. That's a real thing. I'm serious. Jack could show up, and for some reason or another — now, I'd have a lot of sleepless nights — but he's not getting it. He's not moving at the pace we'd like for our middle linebacker. OK, then what? Do we just put him out there because he's the 18th pick? I've been assured that won't happen. Once I got that clearance, and I was able to honestly tell my player, 'Put it on tape, we'll find a role for you.' We're all good now.”

Question: When did you know you were getting Jack Campbell?

Sheppard: “I'm going to be honest, I didn't know it was going to happen. I knew he was high on the board, and I knew he was in play. I had my own little mock deal where I tried to play Brad Holmes and (Jack) was for sure in play. I just thought they'd go somewhere else and then try to do something (a little later). But they were worried, there were two teams sitting at the bottom of the first round, who everybody could see, that had him targeted and were going to get him.”

Question: What stood out in your pre-draft meeting with Jack?

Sheppard: “It was the intensity. His leg was shaking while he was answering questions, sitting on the edge of his seat. And watching him conceptualize things. Look, multiple linebackers that I talked to could tell you what the Will linebacker does, but to see Jack conceptualize and think through — ‘OK, with that motion the safety is about to spin, they're going to layers here, coach.’ Then, when stopping the tape, asking 'Why do you think this happens?' And him being able to answer it without me telling him why, and his tone, his confidence.

“I had another one like that this offseason, Will Anderson. Impressive individual. I don't think people really know Will from a football IQ standpoint. It's special. This player sat with Dave Fipp and told him what the wedge did on football team, then came and met with me and told me not only what the OLBs were doing, but what the ILBs were doing and why they were doing it. On draft night, I had two or three of those guys. Nolan Smith was another one.

Question: You showed Jack Lions tape and he was able to give you the why?

Sheppard: “There it is. It was at a level that if he sat in the room in 2022, he'd been one of the highest processors in the room. That's where this kid is at with the cerebral piece of it. He hasn't texted me in the past 30 minutes, surprisingly, but he's digging through everything.

Question: He’s going through the team’s 2022 tape right now?

Sheppard: “All of it. And he understands when we're making the calls, but he wants to understand the why. When you get a player like that, especially in today's world — these guys are worried about money, NILs, what's popular on Instagram. I told him I added you on Instagram and he's like, 'Coach, I haven't been on there in a while, but I'll get on there.'

Question: What do you love about his tape?

Sheppard: I saw a f______ physical player.

Question: You also saw 6-4 and fast, I bet.

Sheppard: “There you go. And that's rare. You know? You've covered this **** for a while. That's rare. Then when he walks in, in person, it's like, 'Holy ****.' It's so rare. You name me a middle linebacker who has really played above 6-4 since Urlacher. It's hard to be able to bend, to redirect (at that size). And I think something that gets lost with Jack, they see this big guy, and they immediately thing run stopper. Even me, if I'm totally being honest.

“Then you dig deeper, you peel the layers back talking to him. I went in and watched the combine. I was there, but I watched in on my TV in my office. ********. And I'll be honest, a lot of times, it doesn't translate to his on-field play at Iowa. You see some of it. In zone coverage, he's phenomenal, getting into windows with his body. But as far as in space, him bending. But then you watch third downs at Iowa, and what they started having him do midway to late in the season, running games and wrapping. You can see him at the line bending, running little games. You see it. He's bending.

“I told him, 'I see your movement skills are better than what I see on tape.' Then you ask him what were you doing at Iowa. He was doing what he was asked to do. They weren't really unlocked his full potential as an athlete at college, because he'll tell you, at Iowa we play a tough brand of football focused on stopping the run. We're hard-nosed, downhill, shock people.

“So they don't, the phrase I like to use, ‘get spicy,’ where you'd see him doing exotic blitzes and showing off some of that athleticism. Learning that, seeing it, I think there's a lot of untapped potential in this kid.”

Question: Where do you start when coaching a player like that?

Sheppard: “I take them all down to the ground floor. I don't care how much you know, even Alex. It might be boring, but there's going to be one thing that gets your attention. I'm taking them to the ground floor, making sure they understand defensive line play, which Jack understands a lot. We've talked about something that. The same conceptual pieces, he'll go through it all.

“But the thing, for me, it's more on-field with Jack. For him to tell me he never really practiced blitzing, he didn't practice getting on edge of the o-line. He said it just wasn't a thing he practiced. It wasn't a big thing at Iowa, as far as using his athletic ability more. He's like, 'We were just heavy-handed, heavy gap integrity. It was punch, stay in your gap.'“

Question: Yeah, I saw he only rushed the passer a little more than 100 times during his college career.

Sheppard: “I guarantee you a lot of those were him at the line of scrimmage and he has the back. The reason I know that is because I did a third-down study on him after we drafted him. I was trying to see him as an athlete, and most of the time, you go to third down. Literally, he mirrored the back, standing in B gap with the back. There's nothing wrong with that. Like you said, they play a high level of defense there. But now, we're going to try to unlock and tap into some of that potential.”

Question: What have you learned coaching Malcolm?

Sheppard: “Truly going into every situation open minded. I've been very open saying that. You look at my evaluation of Malcolm, and I've told him this, very hard to evaluate. Most of his time at Oklahoma State, he's spitting out in the slot, like an overhang. Then you look at his stature, he's 5-11, 225, short arms. How is that going to translate to the NFL? Now, what you did see, scrappy, ball production, no matter where he lines up he's always around the ball. So when you start to see things like that, you get excited.

“His key reading and diagnose ability to get off the spot, and I'll be honest, his short stature helps him when taking on offensive linemen. Natural leverage and he has this technique — I call it the Malcolm technique — where he can go in a gap and dip, but with force.

“Just going into things, no matter the size, no matter what you've seen on earlier tape, once you get them here, it's your job to develop. Don't look at it like 5-11, short arms, played in space. No, because at rookie minicamp, I knew after two days. I'm like, 'Holy ****, who is this kid.' I tell him to move to Mike and can call it.

“The rest is history, when it comes to him.”