amnesiac
beer is good
Schwesinger looks like he's been in the NFL for 5 years.
about time the Browns hit on someone like him.
Graham looks good, Fannin had a few moments, Judkins, my goodness, where has this drafting been the last five years??
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2025 Cleveland Browns - 1- 5 (11 Viewers)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
about time the Browns hit on someone like him.
Graham looks good, Fannin had a few moments, Judkins, my goodness, where has this drafting been the last five years??
MAC_32
Footballguy
Graham was picked #5. Schwesinger #33. Judkins #36. Fannin #67.
The Browns had one pick (54) in the top 67 in the last 3 years. Spread out over 5 years and the number only increases to five (10, 26, 44, and 52).They whiffed on Wills, no arguing that, but they hit on the other 3. Their other 'misses' are from locations of the draft in which the likelihood of hitting is small.
The ire this front office gets for poor drafting is, and has been, unfounded.
amnesiac
beer is good
don't forget about the Elijah Moore trade.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Placed on IR for the THIRD consecutive year.
Dawand Jones out for the season, will need knee surgery
Not that we had much hope but out O-Line is devastated without our two starting OTs, Bitoneo barely able to walk and Wyatt Teller coming off a horrible game.
We drafted C Luke Wyper and OG Zack Zinter and I'm sure we'll get a look at Teven Jenkins, but in terms of the OT position it looks like a complete tear down to the studs rebuild.
The current 2025 draft class looks great, but we had the luxury of not specifically targeting any ONE position.
We'll be out from under DeShaun Watson's contract so we can tap FA for one starter.
Not sure we can realistically land another starting caliber OT AND a franchise QB if we have to move up for a QB.
Currently hold the 11th and 20th picks in next year's first round.
2026 NFL Mock Draft
amnesiac
beer is good
MAC_32
Footballguy
While he obviously didn't work out, we moved down 32 picks in that trade and took Tillman. Is he that much worse than the WR's picked between 42 and 74? From strictly a talent perspective, Rashee Rice is the only clear difference maker, but then there's the obvious...
This was not a needle mover.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I'm not sure how many W's we'll see so let's have some fun with this.
Here's one of the snaps where they didn't double/triple team Myles.
Mic Caught Packers’ Lineman’s Hilarious Reaction After Getting Beat by Myles Garrett
... Walker could be overheard shouting, "Jordan! Run!" after losing his one-on-one matchup against Garrett in the blink of an eye. Fortunately, the message reached Love, who was able to scramble his way out of the pocket and throw the ball away before Garrett was able to close the gap between them.
Garrett was then seen laughing about the moment while recanting the experience to his teammate on the sideline.
Have a look:
LINK >>> JORDAN RUN!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Yeah, but the offense isn't.
In three games the Browns have run only 46 offensive plays and are averaging only 15.3 points per game.
Compare that to Baltimore who has run 111 plays and is averaging 37 points per game.
Last year, 2024 the Browns ranked dead last in the number of plays per game and averaged 15.2 points per game, for 27th in the league.
Last year, we had massive O-Line injuries and a QB problem. Pretty much the same this year but the defense is phenomenal, and we've added Judkins and Fannin and have a 'glimmer' of hope after drafting two rookie QBs.
I don't see any way around the offensive line age and injuries.
That impacts everything on offense, especially our ability to evaluate the rookie QBs, err that is for anyone thinking the easy/simple solution is to put a rook behind that dilapidated O-Line.
amnesiac
beer is good
taking a look at what they have on the roster, they have:
Wypler Center, 6th rounder, 3rd year,
Zinter, Guard, 3rd rounder, 2nd year,
Leveston, Tackle, 7th rounder, 2nd year,
so there is some depth on the interior, but not sure what they can cobble together for tackles.
they were really relying on Jones being their anchor, but the injury bug keeps getting him.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
2025 NFL offensive line rankings:
27. Cleveland Browns
With the exception of left tackle Dawand Jones, all four projected Browns offensive line starters will be over 30 by the time the season kicks off. Cleveland’s unit has lacked strong play in recent years, and while left guard Joel Bitonio and right guard Wyatt Teller once formed one of the NFL's best guard duos, they ranked 40th and 43rd in PFF overall grade last season among guards, respectively.If Jones doesn't take his game to a new level in his third season, after ranking 77th among 81 offensive tackles with a 46.4 PFF overall grade in 2024, Cleveland’s offensive line could be one of the league's worst in 2025.
Jones is already on IR and Conklin is injured.
Last year I pointed out how devastated our O-Line was. It is at least as bad as last year.
No protection for the QBs, no time for routes to develop or separation to happen.
We are able to open holes for the running game, err until the D figures out, they can unleash the safeties and stack the boxes forcing us to pass.
With tissue paper protection they can get pressure with minimal rushers.
If that weren't bad enough, we have a 40-year-old QB with NO running ability in an offense that would have used RPOs. No ability of the QB to Run means the RPO offense is limited to a Pass Option offense.
Then we have no ability to protect the passer.
I think I've figured out why we aren't so good on offense, and it isn't because Stefanski forgot how to game plan or call plays.
We opened the game with a great game plan of ball control. OK, that only works until the defense figures out how Stefanski schemed the first drive and that is why after opening with a bang the offense fizzles.
Plain and simple.
We don't have starting caliber O-Linemen.
There is no way around it.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Report: Browns swing a deal to address OT position Cleveland reportedly trading for Houston’s Cam Robinson to try and fix the hole at left tackle.
... In addition to the 6-foot-6 and 335-pound Robinson, the Browns are receiving a seventh-round pick in the 2027 NFL Draft, while sending the Texans a sixth-round selection in the same draft.
A second-round draft pick by the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2017, Robinson has been described as a “serviceable” lineman during his career...
... After four games this season, Robinson has posted an overall grade of 66.3 from Pro Football Focus, putting him at No. 33 out of 105 ranked tackles, with a pass-blocking grade of 57.8 (ranked No. 63) and a run-blocking grade of 69.4 (ranking No. 25).
... By comparison, Leveston has a pass-blocking grade of 24.1 from PFF, while Lucas checks in at 35.6.
The Browns find potential stability at OT with Cam Robinson acquisition
... After how badly Cornelius Lucas played against the Lions in week 4, it wasn’t surprising to see the team trade for another player at the position. Lucas faced Lions star pass rusher Aidan Hutchinson a total of 17 times on Sunday and gave up 2 sacks, one of those being a strip sack, and 5 total pressures. That’s completely unacceptable, and a huge reason why the passing game struggled so much ...
... From an actual "talent" standpoint, Cam Robinson is by far the best left tackle the #Browns have had in years. ..
... Joe Flacco obviously has limited mobility, but it’s been magnified because he’s been getting pressured off the edge almost immediately. The Browns have to take what they can get when it comes to being able to chip away at their problems, right now. Adding Robinson could end up being a pretty big piece to solving one of their offensive problems in 2025.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Don't need Cam to be great, good enough and Conklin at 80% will do. Get them a couple weeks of reps then get Gabriel in. While the offense is predictably going nowhere fast, only downside in pulling the trigger with these 2 defenses on tap and a revolving door at both tackles.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Wow.
Browns place WR Cedric Tillman on IR
Bond has started to come along but Ced was about the only WR who had chemistry with Joe.
We called up wide receivers Gage Larvadain and Malachi Corley.
Browns place WR Cedric Tillman on IR
Bond has started to come along but Ced was about the only WR who had chemistry with Joe.
We called up wide receivers Gage Larvadain and Malachi Corley.
amnesiac
beer is good
Bond has looked good to me the times they've gone to him.
the good news about Gabriel is that he gets the ball out quickly.
i fully expect him to throw some interceptions as well.
amnesiac
beer is good
maybe. they have Marshall on the PS who i thought looked decent in the preseason.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Safe to assume Berry is looking for opportunities to move anyone that's not part of the 2026 plan. Ford isn't the only one of them, but he's definitely one of them. I don't expect a market though. We saw why, again, in his early season cameo. This guy's just not that good. If he finds a crease, he can hit home runs, but he finds them very infrequently, and when he doesn't he generally doesn't go anywhere.
amnesiac
beer is good
that's all true, but it wouldn't surprise me if somewhere around 50% of NFL GMs look at the Browns and think, "oh, yeah, Player X would be a decent player if he wasn't on that Browns team."
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Checking in on the rooks after five games. The first two picks are firmly in the running for DROY Award.
First round #5 pick DT Mason Graham
Rank 12th out of ALL NFL rookies by nfl.com
... the former wrestler is a leverage technician with a mature game and a non-stop motor... Graham is still finding his way in the NFL on a game-to-game basis, but the upside is immense on Cleveland’s ferocious front.
-------
Mason is progressing 'pretty-much' how I figured. Heavy into the rotation with 13 tackles, 8 solos, and a half a sack.
Next, my boy LB Carson Schwesinger
Rank 5
44 tackles, 18 solos, and 1 sack
Carson Schwesinger
As a linebacker, playing behind a disruptive defensive line certainly has its benefits, and this sideline-to-sideline playmaker is taking full advantage... ... this fluid athlete just continues to ascend as an every-down player at the NFL level, showcasing rare closing speed while lighting up passers and pass catchers.
2025 NFL quarter-season Defensive Rookie of the Year Power Rankings AFTER 4 GAMES
... NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year award is quickly shaping up to be the most competitive. ... a few standouts are clearly leading the way.
5. DT Mason Graham, Cleveland Browns
... Graham has earned a 61.0 player grade from Pro Football Focus thus far, ranking near the league average for interior defensive linemen... ...Developing consistency will be the key to Graham’s season-long success. He has been as advertised so far1. LB Carson Schwesinger, Cleveland Browns
Carson Schwesinger ... has been the best rookie defender through the first month of the season... ... Schwesinger has earned an 84.1 PFF player grade after four games, making him the 10th-best linebacker in the leagueCarson also was ESPN's top rookie of the year so far.
2025 NFL quarter-season awards: MVP, top rookies, coaches
Defensive Rookie of the Year
1. Carson Schwesinger Cleveland Browns
Schwesinger -- a second-round pick -- was a Week 1 starter and served as the "green dot" defender relaying calls from the coaching staff.All of that wouldn't matter if Schwesinger couldn't make an impact, but he has been excellent in his first month. He has made more than 12% of Cleveland's tackles, an above-average rate, while whiffing on just 3.1% of his attempts, one of the best rates in the league for a linebacker who has been on the field for virtually every snap. Schwesinger tracked down Jordan Love for a big sack in the win over the Packers, has a couple of tackles for loss and has been a rangy defender against the run.
This article came out about two weeks ago BEFORE Jud blew up.
Quinshon Judkins is proving to be the best rookie running back in the NFL
RB Quinshon Judkins
Rank 16 AFTER 4 GAMES, the quarter mark by nfl.com
His updated numbers after 5 games.
72 rushing attempts
347 rushing yards
4.8 yards per rush
2 rushing TDs
9 receptions
62 receiving yards
6.8 yards per catch
TE Harold Fannin started out HOT but his numbers have gone down over time.
First game 7 receptions for 63 yards plus 1 rush for 3 yards
Second 5 for 48
Third 3 for 25
Fourth 2 for 24 yards plus 1 rush for 1 yard
Fifth 4 for 13 yards plus 1 TD catch
And we're just entering in the Dillion Gabriel era. So far, so good.
Flacco had 2 TDs and was leading the league in turnovers over the first 4 games whereas Dillion had 2 TDs with 0 turnovers in his first ever NFL start, on a short work week playing overseas.
Won't even mention the two FAs, DT Adin Hunington and WR Isaiah Bond who is currently listed as a starter and is starting to produce.
If you get 2 solid NFL starters out of a rookie class, it is considered a good draft. Anything extra is gravy. We're swimming in gravy since it looks like Carson and Quinshon are solid NFL starters and Mason is on-point to join them 'possibly' by the end of his rookie season.
RGIII and Kirk Cousins, 2012
Nice, not sure why I didn't think of them. They didn't have any other qbs at all?
MAC_32
Footballguy
Desperation yields irrational decisions
Galileo
Footballguy
We still have Watson
MAC_32
Footballguy
This forum needs a laugh / cry emoji
Grossman?
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
Not a real inspiring move for a team who is oddly enough still in the thick of it in their own division.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Probably not an exact fit but these guys might do.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
They're 1-4 and they aren't a very inspiring team.
With or without Joe we'd be looking at a 4-13 season
King of the Jungle
Footballguy
They are 2-3. I disagree that the would not have more success with Joe.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I just can't believe they go with two rooks at QB.
Have to think that Deshaun is close to coming off IR or they will go to Zappe to have at least one veteran QB for the rookies to bounce things off of on the sidelines. Having a vet who has been through things is valuable. Even just for a pep talk.
The O-Line is still an issue, but we 'should' get more action from OT Cam Robinson and that will help.
Have to think it bodes well for Shedeur's odds of getting a start down the road.
The Bengals offensive line is awful, but Flacco 'could' flash with Chase and Higgins on a few big plays.
One thing is certain, that first we're getting from the Jags won't be in the top-10 and its looking doubtful it will be in the top-20.
Have to think that Deshaun is close to coming off IR or they will go to Zappe to have at least one veteran QB for the rookies to bounce things off of on the sidelines. Having a vet who has been through things is valuable. Even just for a pep talk.
The O-Line is still an issue, but we 'should' get more action from OT Cam Robinson and that will help.
Have to think it bodes well for Shedeur's odds of getting a start down the road.
The Bengals offensive line is awful, but Flacco 'could' flash with Chase and Higgins on a few big plays.
One thing is certain, that first we're getting from the Jags won't be in the top-10 and its looking doubtful it will be in the top-20.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Sorry, I thought you meant the Browns
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Well, our organization doesn't exactly make winning decisions.
You new here?
Brunell4MVP
Footballguy
Fairly sure we still had Rex Grossman on the roster that year.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Now we trade Newsome?
For some guy I never heard of and a 7th round draft pick?
Obviously, AB doesn't care about wins this year.
To do so right after dishing Flacco in the middle of Steeler's week.
That makes me seethe.
Flacco was named starter this week against the Pack. He's the first NFL QB to start against the same team for two different teams. It'll be interesting to see how he does. If they take the reins off and let him rip-it with Chase and Higgins.
Stefanski seemed 'shaken' by the Flacco trade. It was clearly an AB deal.
Who will be the backup?
Stefanski has to prep a rookie, against the Steelers, on the road, in the rookie's 2nd NFL start.
For those who think Shedeur should be the backup, think about it.
Shedeur would need reps to be prepared that he won't get. Stefanski would need to have his backup go in cold and have faith in them.
I'm sure Stefanski would have loved to have a vet like Flacco who knows the offense and the Steelers D, not some rookie.
I have to think Zappe will be activated for the game.
For some guy I never heard of and a 7th round draft pick?
Obviously, AB doesn't care about wins this year.
To do so right after dishing Flacco in the middle of Steeler's week.
That makes me seethe.
Flacco was named starter this week against the Pack. He's the first NFL QB to start against the same team for two different teams. It'll be interesting to see how he does. If they take the reins off and let him rip-it with Chase and Higgins.
Stefanski seemed 'shaken' by the Flacco trade. It was clearly an AB deal.
Who will be the backup?
Stefanski has to prep a rookie, against the Steelers, on the road, in the rookie's 2nd NFL start.
For those who think Shedeur should be the backup, think about it.
Shedeur would need reps to be prepared that he won't get. Stefanski would need to have his backup go in cold and have faith in them.
I'm sure Stefanski would have loved to have a vet like Flacco who knows the offense and the Steelers D, not some rookie.
I have to think Zappe will be activated for the game.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I don't understand any vitriol to this trade. The team's not going anywhere this year and Newsome's going to be out of their price range come March.
This move nets the team a cost controlled CB2 for 26 and 27. He'll either be cut or extended / restructured going into 28 as he has a $14.5m base in addition to his bonuses. In the meantime, the Jags are on the hook for most of both contracts. The writing was on the wall with moving Newsome for some time when they didn't adjust any of his $13+m base to a bonus, so that now shifts to the Jags. Coming our way is just Campbell's prorated base of $1.5m and per game bonuses going forward of $500K. Like with Flacco, this creates more cap space now to roll over to the future. A future that nets us a relatively cheap CB2* while we're out trying to plug the many holes littered throughout our offense. He has the same league minimum base + per game bonus structure through 27.
*if he turns things around - he's had a rough start to the year, but new system fit could be a culprit so there's reason to believe in course correction. They're asking him to be a ball hawk and ball skills have always been his greatest weakness. He's had some good years that resulted in his extension in the first place, so guarded optimism appears warranted, especially at this cost.
This move nets the team a cost controlled CB2 for 26 and 27. He'll either be cut or extended / restructured going into 28 as he has a $14.5m base in addition to his bonuses. In the meantime, the Jags are on the hook for most of both contracts. The writing was on the wall with moving Newsome for some time when they didn't adjust any of his $13+m base to a bonus, so that now shifts to the Jags. Coming our way is just Campbell's prorated base of $1.5m and per game bonuses going forward of $500K. Like with Flacco, this creates more cap space now to roll over to the future. A future that nets us a relatively cheap CB2* while we're out trying to plug the many holes littered throughout our offense. He has the same league minimum base + per game bonus structure through 27.
*if he turns things around - he's had a rough start to the year, but new system fit could be a culprit so there's reason to believe in course correction. They're asking him to be a ball hawk and ball skills have always been his greatest weakness. He's had some good years that resulted in his extension in the first place, so guarded optimism appears warranted, especially at this cost.
MAC_32
Footballguy
He's both playing well (which is why the Jags want him) and being picked on (because Ward is better). The only consistent issues I've seen on D is at slot corner and when Ward had to keep tapping out during the Ravens game.
amnesiac
beer is good
i saw a blurb online somewhere regarding the Browns scheme being more Man coverage and Jags scheme being more Zone coverage, do you think there's any validity to that theory?
i've got to imagine there's some logic behind this move other than the contracts?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I can't speak to specifics re the Jags, just the little I read while neglecting work this morning, but our man coverage scheme fits well with Campbell's skill set...assuming he bounces back to previous performance expectations. That assumption is the calculated risk.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The timing irks me because it’s Steelers week and the trade deadline isn’t till November 4th.
No reason to rush this through in the middle of Steeler week, the ONLY game I want us to win.
Now, the new guy can’t possibly learn Schwartz’ terminology in a few days let alone work out timing with a new unit.
Doubtful we stand any chance but we could have waited for the Dolphins to pull the trigger and if they want to lose then … we may be able to knock off Miami.
amnesiac
beer is good
if they’re playing man, my guess is he just needs to know which guy he’s covering?
Utter Chaos
Footballguy
What about the 1989 Cowboys with Troy Aikman and Steve Walsh? Babe Laufenberg was the third QB but he didn't throw a pass all year.
MAC_32
Footballguy
I think there's something to be said to get in front of the trade deadline, especially if the offer is unlikely to get better and this is a week-to-week league. An offer now may not be there next week. The rest of what you talked about is an important delineation between fans and management - effective leadership can't be effective if they let emotions drive decision making. 2026 is way more important than a marginally better chance getting to 2-4 beating the Steelers in a lost season.
MAC_32
Footballguy
It's primarily a man scheme, but there's different formations and checks, and not exclusively man anyway. Those miscommunications were what led to several broken play TD's last year.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
AB had already established a working relationship with the new Jag GM with the Hunter trade. This was unique CB for CB swap with cap implications. It was an opportunity deal, highly unlikely other teams with 'similar' CBs ready to pounce.
As I said, we aren't likely to beat the Steelers, now even less likely.
If we had waited till next week when facing the Phins who we ARE likely to beat, THEN it would have been ideal to pull the trigger.
My issue is the timing, why now?
I mean it's only been 21 years since we beat them in Pittsburgh.
This season has never been about this year, and we have Emmerson back next season and the cap bonus is great.
I like the deal, not the timing.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Emerson is a FA
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