MAC_32
Footballguy
I'm not concerned about our OL this year.
That's what I'm concerned about.
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2025 Cleveland Browns - OTAs (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter amnesiac
- Start date
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
"That's what I'm concerned about.'
Yeah, I was also concerned and understood that concern...
I posted the hit rates of highly selected OTs a month later.
Some stuff to chew on:
---------------------------------
NFL Offensive Line Success: Why building through the NFL draft is the key ...OL rookie success vs. draft position
...it’s not enough to just draft offensive line year to year, it’s crucial to invest premium picks there because the success rate in the later rounds is considerably lower than at other positions, especially early in their careers.
If we break it down by position, we see there is a higher success rate in drafting OTs vs interior OL in their rookie year: ...one thing is clear – top offensive line talent is difficult to acquire in comparison to other positions because teams simply aren’t letting those guys walk out the door as often, so they better be able to draft them well.
Where was the average NFL offensive starter drafted, by position?
Where a player was drafted matters...
- QB is the big outlier, but OT is another one with an unusual concentration of 1st round picks starting.
----------------------------------------
As I noted, we wanted OT Josh Simmons and got sniped one-spot before our pick in the 2nd round. We went LBer to pair with the DT in the 1st round.
I'll do a different post on the draft but in terms of O-Line. We're in much better shape this year and weren't going to press it in the draft since they went early and I can live with that.
MAC_32
Footballguy
This is where AB's restrained approach gets him in trouble. We're 4 picks out with Conerly and Simmons on the board then he gambles on one of them falling with no fall back plan rather than packaging a day 3 pick to move up and get one of them. This is how he got his hand jammed in the cookie jar with Nico Collins then he panic picked Anthony Schwartz and the butterfly effect from that move set the team back years.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
First off, that is a pretty damn good gamble IMHO. Four teams and two OTs. I'm taking that gamble every day and twice on Sundays especially since we did have a fallback plan.
Dwand, Cornelious, and Teven Jenkins. ALL starting caliber OTs to go with Jack Conklin and Teven was taken in the
I don't see a bleak dystopian landscape at OT.
Check that, Teven was taken in 22 not 23. Still young and a quality lineman.
Last edited:
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Per the draft:
1st round
DT Mason Graham
AND a 2026 1st round AND a high 2025 2nd round pick
I think I've gushed enough over WR/CB Travis Hunter so let's look at what we got.
Graham - We've drafted 4 DTs over the previous 3 drafts including last year's top pick Mike Hall and none have them have really stood out, but I like Hall as a wide-9 DE pass rusher. With The Graham as his D-Line coach calls him. We appear to have a Bonafide long term quality starter.
2nd round
2A - LB Carson Schwesinger
We've drafted 3 LBers over the past three drafts and the only one who has stood out was JOK and he may never play again.
Sidenote that I discovered about the Cleveland Browns this draft, WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE with the title of General Manager in the front office. Andrew Berry's official team title is:
He ACTS as GM but his title is VP of football operations. Hmnnn. Other teams have people in THAT position, but they don't combine the VP of football Ops with GM as AB does.
OK, stay with me.
Next guy we have is Paul DePodesta Chief Strategy Officer
Getting to the point. Depodesta maps out the long-term team strategy of where we put money. He has the ear of Jimmy. We've thrown a lot of money at the DT and LB positions forever. Now we've got two long term solutions under rookie contracts. That is a 'solid' long-term team strategy IMHO. I might take a guess that the GM duties are with Berry with heavy input from Depo if the long-term numbers add up. I speculate on things that make sense and taking a DT and a LB with top picks seems to fix a long-term issue.
2B pick
RB Quinshon Judkins
Last year we only had Chubb and Ford. I was hoping Nick would return but...
3 A
TE Harold Fannin Jr.
He can be utilized in many ways but maybe not such a 'great' blocking TE.
I'm going to go out of order and skip the 3B pick for a second and go to:
4th round
RB Dylan Sampson
Look at those three selections. This looks like a Stefanski special because we will go back to 12 personnel and the run-heavy attack that Stefanski built his rep with. Everything about those three picks scream Stefanski IMHO.
3B
QB Dillon Gabriel
5th round
QB Shedeur Sanders
Conspiracy theory time. Everyone knew we were going to take a QB. We had Pickett and Flacco. Both cheap but with Watson's contract we needed a rookie contract. The coaches flew out to Eugene the day BEFORE they went to Boulder and saw both of these guys and the coaching staff loved Gabe. I think Stefanski and AB didn't want Haslam and Depo to foist Shedeur on them so they leg-whipped them with the Gabriel pick.
Hass was like un uh, my team take Shedeur and that is why we got the sad faces and lukewarm coaching debriefing of the pick. I hated the Gabriel pick and love the Shedeur selection.
I'm not the only one who has speculated that was how it went down. I heard it on draft day from a media person who shall go unnamed, but others agreed with them.
I honestly think if Shedeur was a 1st or high 2nd round pick that it would be a mistake. But we got a bargain. I think if he gets a legit shot to start that he will be the starter late in the season and we can see if he can overcome some 'issues' in his game and we can utilize the extra 2026 1st round pick to shore up the WR corps because we lack a #2 WR and it sure would be nice to have Travis and Shedeur but I'll take what we got.
1st round
DT Mason Graham
AND a 2026 1st round AND a high 2025 2nd round pick
I think I've gushed enough over WR/CB Travis Hunter so let's look at what we got.
Graham - We've drafted 4 DTs over the previous 3 drafts including last year's top pick Mike Hall and none have them have really stood out, but I like Hall as a wide-9 DE pass rusher. With The Graham as his D-Line coach calls him. We appear to have a Bonafide long term quality starter.
2nd round
2A - LB Carson Schwesinger
We've drafted 3 LBers over the past three drafts and the only one who has stood out was JOK and he may never play again.
Sidenote that I discovered about the Cleveland Browns this draft, WE DON'T HAVE ANYONE with the title of General Manager in the front office. Andrew Berry's official team title is:
| Executive vice president of football operations |
[th]
Cleveland Browns
[/th][th width="132.925px"]
Position:
[/th]OK, stay with me.
Next guy we have is Paul DePodesta Chief Strategy Officer
Getting to the point. Depodesta maps out the long-term team strategy of where we put money. He has the ear of Jimmy. We've thrown a lot of money at the DT and LB positions forever. Now we've got two long term solutions under rookie contracts. That is a 'solid' long-term team strategy IMHO. I might take a guess that the GM duties are with Berry with heavy input from Depo if the long-term numbers add up. I speculate on things that make sense and taking a DT and a LB with top picks seems to fix a long-term issue.
2B pick
RB Quinshon Judkins
Last year we only had Chubb and Ford. I was hoping Nick would return but...
3 A
TE Harold Fannin Jr.
He can be utilized in many ways but maybe not such a 'great' blocking TE.
I'm going to go out of order and skip the 3B pick for a second and go to:
4th round
RB Dylan Sampson
Look at those three selections. This looks like a Stefanski special because we will go back to 12 personnel and the run-heavy attack that Stefanski built his rep with. Everything about those three picks scream Stefanski IMHO.
3B
QB Dillon Gabriel
5th round
QB Shedeur Sanders
Conspiracy theory time. Everyone knew we were going to take a QB. We had Pickett and Flacco. Both cheap but with Watson's contract we needed a rookie contract. The coaches flew out to Eugene the day BEFORE they went to Boulder and saw both of these guys and the coaching staff loved Gabe. I think Stefanski and AB didn't want Haslam and Depo to foist Shedeur on them so they leg-whipped them with the Gabriel pick.
Hass was like un uh, my team take Shedeur and that is why we got the sad faces and lukewarm coaching debriefing of the pick. I hated the Gabriel pick and love the Shedeur selection.
I'm not the only one who has speculated that was how it went down. I heard it on draft day from a media person who shall go unnamed, but others agreed with them.
I honestly think if Shedeur was a 1st or high 2nd round pick that it would be a mistake. But we got a bargain. I think if he gets a legit shot to start that he will be the starter late in the season and we can see if he can overcome some 'issues' in his game and we can utilize the extra 2026 1st round pick to shore up the WR corps because we lack a #2 WR and it sure would be nice to have Travis and Shedeur but I'll take what we got.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Let's start with the positives...
-You got the Jags 1st round pick next year and there are at least 3-4 QBs in there already that likely will go 1st round, at the least you can trade it for another 1st and then some next year
-You got even more than that 1st including a 2nd this year which you all used.
-I like Mason Graham and what he can do with a guy like Garrett as an anchor on one side of him, they should pair well together.
Some of the things I didn't like...
-Carson Schwesinger might be a Top 3-5 LB in this class but he wasn't worth the No 33 overall IMHO
-Graham is a strong DT prospect but he's also not a WOW type and that might be why you all traded down
-If Travis Hunter explodes with the Jags, that trade is not going to look very good for the Browns...I don't quite share the same optimism that others do with Hunter
I couldn't take him No 2 overall, no way. The Jags couldn't keep Jalen Ramsey happy, they took him 5th overall so what's changed since then?
-I'm not the biggest Judkins fan, he shared the workload at OSU, maybe that's normal and I know many are excited about him but it was a pretty deep class, not sure he is that much better than a lot of other names that went after his name was called. I know he has a clear path to start there in Cleveland but I'm not that excited about him just yet.
-I like Fannin, what happens to Njoku in 2025? Fannin rated as perhaps the top TE for just about every metric out there from things I saw
He's an interesting prospect, not sure he will be known for run blocking abilities but at the same time it's not proven that he can't do it.
Makes big plays in the passing game, you wouldn't want to leave this guy alone or allow him a catch in open space, he's a difference maker IMHO.
Do you all even know much about Fannin?
www.youtube.com
117/1,555/10TDs and I promise it wasn't all against total scrubs
11/137/TD vs Penn State
8/145/TD vs Texas A&M
That's Big 10 and SEC, he can't help that BG plays in the MAC
I am all over this guy, even with Cleveland molting at QB for the enxt 2-3 years, feel confident this guy will get folks attention
-You got the Jags 1st round pick next year and there are at least 3-4 QBs in there already that likely will go 1st round, at the least you can trade it for another 1st and then some next year
-You got even more than that 1st including a 2nd this year which you all used.
-I like Mason Graham and what he can do with a guy like Garrett as an anchor on one side of him, they should pair well together.
Some of the things I didn't like...
-Carson Schwesinger might be a Top 3-5 LB in this class but he wasn't worth the No 33 overall IMHO
-Graham is a strong DT prospect but he's also not a WOW type and that might be why you all traded down
-If Travis Hunter explodes with the Jags, that trade is not going to look very good for the Browns...I don't quite share the same optimism that others do with Hunter
I couldn't take him No 2 overall, no way. The Jags couldn't keep Jalen Ramsey happy, they took him 5th overall so what's changed since then?
-I'm not the biggest Judkins fan, he shared the workload at OSU, maybe that's normal and I know many are excited about him but it was a pretty deep class, not sure he is that much better than a lot of other names that went after his name was called. I know he has a clear path to start there in Cleveland but I'm not that excited about him just yet.
-I like Fannin, what happens to Njoku in 2025? Fannin rated as perhaps the top TE for just about every metric out there from things I saw
He's an interesting prospect, not sure he will be known for run blocking abilities but at the same time it's not proven that he can't do it.
Makes big plays in the passing game, you wouldn't want to leave this guy alone or allow him a catch in open space, he's a difference maker IMHO.
Do you all even know much about Fannin?
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
11/137/TD vs Penn State
8/145/TD vs Texas A&M
That's Big 10 and SEC, he can't help that BG plays in the MAC
I am all over this guy, even with Cleveland molting at QB for the enxt 2-3 years, feel confident this guy will get folks attention
MAC_32
Footballguy
The future 1 was acquired to secure a QB next year, Dwand is the only OT under contract beyond this year, and the likelihood of finding a quality OT outside of rd 1 is very low relative to other positions.
That's not a fall back plan.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
True dat however you can't force talent to be available.
I know you feel AB was being hesitant, but I feel two OTs available in four picks was not a high-risk gamble or something to be critical of. No one has Nostradamus on their staff advising them, but everyone has 20-20 hindsight.
No one under contract? We lack FA dollars yet managed two 'starting caliber' FAs and can extend Conklin and/or either one of the FAs.
I go with my gut and believe Shedeur will start later this year. He has things to work on.
If he works, earns the opportunity, continues to work and shows enough improvement then we have the extra 1st round pick in our pocket.
It isn't in a Browns fan DNA to actually think we 'could' have stumbled into 'our guy' so I'll wait.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Not sure what people expect but consider that one of the best DTs in the league last year was Vita Vea and he had 7 sacks. Vita Vea is a stud and has played in the league for 7 years. The 7 sacks was his career HIGH.
The first three years in the league, Vita had a combined 7.5 sacks. He's one of the best DTs in the league so I'm not sure what people expect of Graham but temper expectations.
I instantly thought if this could be a FORCE MULTIPLIER, but I don't think so.
He will be a force against the run and with his high motor he won't give up and he'll be productive but he's not Aarron Donald. He's more like D.J. Reader who was also very good but in 9 NFL seasons D.J. Reader has 12.5 sacks. That is an average of less than 2 per season. Vita has 30.5 in seven seasons for an average of a little over 4 per season.
I'd put Graham more to the Vita Vea side but, as I noted in his first three seasons as he was learning the game Vita had a combined 7.5 sacks or a little over 2 per season.
Temper pass rush expectations for Graham, especially for the first few years as he learns the game.
amnesiac
beer is good
my thought was that teams tend to double Garrett quite a bit, which could free up Graham.
OR, it could possibly force teams into not being able to double either of them.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Myles has played in the league for 8 seasons.
He has 102.5 sacks in 117 games for an average of .87 sacks per game. Close to 1 sack every game.
His first season he had his lowest total with 7 sacks. He's other worldly and has never had under double digits the rest of his career. There is nothing like him.
Mason played 3 years at Michigan.
He had 9 sacks in 39 games for an average of .23 sacks per game. Less than 1 sack every 4 games.
Teams HAVE to double and triple team Myles. It is not just the sacks, he forces fumbles, 20 over the course of his career, he bats down passes with 17 over his career, he stuffs run plays with 50 over his career, in addition to blocking kicks and other big plays. There is nothing like Myles Garrett in the league. Nothing. People take him for granted but make no doubt about it, he is uber special.
You HAVE to double and triple team Myles Garrett.
People don't really get it and have gone off the deep end projecting the same sort of production from Graham just because he will play next to Garrett. Look at what Leroy Hoard said.
Analyst Compares Browns Draft Pick To J.J. Watt
“What a beast, right? He kind of gives me a feel of J.J. Watt,” Hoard said.
Whaaa???? J.J. Watt? Three-time Defensive Player of the Year award winner? After his rookie season J.J. had 69.5 sacks over the next four seasons before he got injured.
See, this is why I say to 'temper' expectations. Graham WILL BE a 'good' NFL DT. He won't ever put up Myles Garrett or J.J. Watt numbers. No one will ever choose to double Graham over Myles Garrett.
He WILL be 'good'. He's got a high motor, great lateral movement, excellent bend for a big man, but he doesn't have the power or burst.
Great news is he hasn't been a hard worker in the weight room.
THAT is easily correctable, so I expect big improvements in his power... OVER THE NEXT FEW YEARS. That won't come overnight. He's a baby, expect baby steps not J.J. Watt showcasing his incredible burst by leap 61 inches. https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Nq31V2iocSk
That is over 5 feet in one leap.
Mason Graham didn't do a vertical leap at the Combine but ahh... Nah.
daveR
Footballguy
He wasn't asked to pressure the QB in the Xichigan defense. The interviews I've heard suggest the Browns will change that. Here's hoping he enjoys it!
amnesiac
beer is good
oh, i wasn't suggesting Graham is going to be any sort of elite DL, i was just saying it could be interesting to see what he could do lined up next to Garrett.
i thought i read that Graham was basically double teamed his entire college career.
and comparing almost ANYONE to JJWatt is mental.
amnesiac
beer is good
Good point. I understand not having too high of expectations, but lets see what the kid can do in Schwartz's defense!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
That should be the expectation, pressure.
Yet, that is the vibe.
Fine, yet historical rookie DT production even with the best DTs in the league doesn't equate to sacks and Graham has never been a high sack guy.
daveR
Footballguy
Possibly what they're finding similar is a wrestling background. Pretty sure I remember that about Watt.
Graham looked awful in highlights of practice.
Drills and shorts but what kind of shape is he in to be puking? Often stumbling and falling down once?
Y'all have no choice but to assume he didn't work out during downtime and it will take him some time to get into shape. Ya can't even form a judgement until that happens.
This used to be more common and we didn't really get videos. There's perspective here. I just...I don't think I ever saw that.
Here's one video-
Drills and shorts but what kind of shape is he in to be puking? Often stumbling and falling down once?
Y'all have no choice but to assume he didn't work out during downtime and it will take him some time to get into shape. Ya can't even form a judgement until that happens.
This used to be more common and we didn't really get videos. There's perspective here. I just...I don't think I ever saw that.
Here's one video-
amnesiac
beer is good
stinks, but not entirely unexpected.
amnesiac
beer is good
except the complaint during the draft was that he had shed too much weight this offseason.
you typically don’t do that by lying around getting out of shape.
for all we know, he pulled a Manziel the night before and the coaches were making him pay for it.
i’ll chalk it up to a bad day at the office unless it becomes a pattern.
It's sooo early. Yeah
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I went back to take a look and lookie.
Four of the top 17 listed as top remaining players left on day 2 making FIVE top prospects taken from this draft.
Jacksonville's schedule is weak.
Jaguars schedule
Cupcakes. Looks like 8 to 10 wins.
On the other hand, we might start 0-6.
2025 Cleveland Browns Schedule
osubuckeyeman
Footballguy
I agree, and I think ownership got involved once again on the Sanders pick. They drafted Dillion first. He was the plan. Then, they got Sanders because of the fall, and because I think ownership made a call. Now, as expected, the media up there in Cleveland have been having a field day covering this. You put yourself in the spotlight, and for the wrong reasons.
No one can create distractions like Cleveland when what they need to do is lay low and have fewer distractions. The circus continues, and I entirely blame ownership. It reminds me of Corporate America. The trickle-down of blame will also follow the same path. The look on Berry's face and KOC during the draft says a lot. I like what the Browns did for the most part. The drafting Sanders, though, when you have so many other needs to fill, feels irresponsible unless you just did not believe in Dillion, which opens other questions. Could this all work out like it did for Washington and Kirk Cousins? Sure, that could happen, but that is also unlikely.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Great column by Pluto with tons on the draft picks.
What I heard about why the Browns drafted like they did — Terry Pluto
I am more intrigued with the Dylan Sampson selection knowing we had him rated so highly that we bypassed taking a flyer on an O-Lineman. The article goes into more detail on how he'll fit in the offense.
The Schwesinger pick was a head scratcher for me at the time, but now I'm jazzed.
Lots more at the link that I cut out so click the LINK.
What I heard about why the Browns drafted like they did — Terry Pluto
- 1. The Browns really did like Travis Hunter. If Jacksonville had not made an offer that included the first-round pick in the 2026 draft, Cleveland would have taken Hunter.
- 2. The Browns pumped up their interest in Hunter just in case a team did want to trade for him. Jacksonville was not the only team interested in moving up to No. 2. But the Browns had to receive what they believed was an “overwhelming” offer to make the deal.
- 4. The Browns believe between their own first-round pick in 2026 and Jacksonville’s (likely to be high), they can find a QB in the draft. If something happens and Kenny Pickett revives his career or one of the rookies surprises and becomes an effective starter, they can use the pair of first-rounders in 2026 to fill other needs.
- 8. The Browns liked Gabriel … a lot. At that point, Sanders was not in the plans. My source said he knows of at least one other team that had a third-round grade on Gabriel. Another team had a fourth-round grade.
- 9. The Browns stuck to their draft board. While they could use another offensive lineman, they had Tennessee’s Sampson rated in the third round. They are rebuilding the running game. They still like Jerome Ford. They took Ohio State’s Judkins in the second round. But they couldn’t ignore Sampson still being available.
- 12. I asked about Sanders. My source said he didn’t know of any team that had him rated in the first three rounds. The source said he was a product of the Deion Sanders hype machine. The problem was his father/coach miscalculated where his son would be drafted and wasn’t buying reports to the contrary.
- 13. The Browns spent a lot of time with Sanders and also Hunter — both playing for Deion Sanders at Colorado. The Browns believe Sanders “is a good kid and is coachable.” They had a fourth round grade on him and they tried to trade to take him after drafting Sampson in the fourth round...
- 17. I heard Carson Schwesinger had a tremendous rookie camp, at least in terms of what the Browns wanted to see. The linebacker from UCLA looked very good in pass coverage. That is something you can judge in these workouts. There is no tackling. The Browns believe he can play all three linebacker spots, but he probably will emerge as the middle linebacker.
- 18. Harold Fannin Jr. also impressed. The tight end from Bowling Green should thrive in Kevin Stefanski’s offense. He has excellent hands. He is versatile in terms of where he can play on the line. He led the country with 117 pass receptions last season. The Browns want to return to their running/tight end roots. Fannin and David Njoku should thrive in that system. Jerry Jeudy can fill the Amari Cooper role (2022-23) when he was a deep receiving threat.
- 20 As for the QBs, it’s silly to read much into the first weekend unless someone really struggled. No one did. Both Sanders and Gabriel were generally accurate with their throws. Sanders is learning to take snaps under center and did a decent job overall.
I liked Sanders but even I didn't think he was worth a 1st or 2nd round pick which was the league-wide consensus 'apparently'. I also felt the Browns got a bargain and according to their board, they got him a round lower than how they had him graded.
I am more intrigued with the Dylan Sampson selection knowing we had him rated so highly that we bypassed taking a flyer on an O-Lineman. The article goes into more detail on how he'll fit in the offense.
The Schwesinger pick was a head scratcher for me at the time, but now I'm jazzed.
Lots more at the link that I cut out so click the LINK.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
If we would have traded Garrett we'd have gotten three 1st-round draft picks. He has a no-trade clause and wanted to go to a contending team. He's from the Dallas area, he said he wanted to get drafted by the Boys. He's been working out with the Cowboy pass rusher. It fits that he'd want to go to the Cowboys so figure three 1st-round picks from Dallas. Ok, let's just take a look at what we'd REASONABLY get out of the deal.
First, we would not make the deal with Jacksonville to move-down to take the DT because we'd have an extra 1st round pick next year from Dallas AND we'd take the EDGE pass rusher Abdul Carter with our 1st-round pick. Abdul isn't Myles and won't ever become Myles or a HOF player so a big drop in production right off the bat, but we'd save on cap with a rookie deal for four years. Still a huge net loss.
Dallas held the 12th pick of the first round and took a guard, Tyler Booker. We need a guard because Bitonio is gone next year, positionally WR and OT would be priorities over a G.
Let's look at the board: The top two WRs and the top two OTs were off the board. The next highest WR was Emeka Egbuka who got taken with the 19th pick so it would be a bit of a reach. The next highest taken OT was Josh Conerly taken with the 29th pick so it would be a MAJOR reach to take him at 12.
We'd either take value with G Tyler Booker or reach for the WR Egbuka.
If the plan is to tank this year, then take the value pick of G Tyler Booker.
Next year we take an aggregate of the two drafts by Dallas leading up to this draft and figure if they got Myles, they'd be improved but let's just go by the average of the last two Dallas drafts to see where those two extra 1st-round picks would be.
In 2024 they picked 24 and in 2023 they picked 27th so the average is pick 25.5 or 25. Ok, that rules OUT QB with the 25th pick unless we package our 1st round pick with the Dallas picks to move-up for a QB because we can't reasonably expect to find one with the 25th pick even in a deep QB class.
Since we decided to tank for a year, we'd be in position to take a QB with our top pick.
This year the 25th pick was QB Jaxson Dart. We would have already used our top pick on a QB so we would not take a QB, we'd either take a WR or OT so let's look at the next highest rated WRs and OTs taken this year. No WRs were left in the 1st round so the next WR taken was Jayden Higgins with the 34th pick of the 2nd round. It would be a reach to take him at 25. The next highest rated OT was taken 29th Josh Conerly so he'd be the pick.
The final pick we'd target WR and take the aggregate of the WRs taken in the last three drafts with pick 25. None in 2025. In 2024 Xavier Worthy, Ricky Pearsall, Xavier Legette. In 2023 none taken so basically a bad late round WR.
So we'd wind up trading Myles Garrett for two unproven rookie O-Linemen an G and an OT because the WR would suck. A HOF DE in his prime for that AND a big step down from Myles to Adbul Carter as a pass rusher because Abdul has no power, no inside move, no counter, and gets manhandled with double teams. Myles constantly gets pressure and sacks facing double and triple teams.
Now?
We have Myles, we have Mason Graham and Judkins and an extra 1st next year to get the QB AND add an O-Lineman or take a flyer at WR and it won't be a late 1st round Dallas pick but a mid-1st Jags pick where we 'CAN' get a WR or better O-Lineman.
We are MUCH BETTER off with Myles Garrett and better positioned in next year's draft with Jacksonville's pick rather than trading Myles where we'd land Dallas' 1st-round pick.
And don't look now but Shedeur is flashing in camp. Jes say'n.
Gatorade
Footballguy
As a Dallas fan, I would not have wanted to trade three first round picks for Garrett mainly for the price of his contract. The only way they could afford his contract would be to trade Dak and his contract for Garrett.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
Lol, wut?
No Bracie, just no
No Bracie, just no
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
Trying to project where a team will pick next year is like trying to predict crypto prices. It doesn't matter how good Garrett is if he goes to Dallas, they're one Dak Prescott injury away from starting Joe Milton and winning 5 games. Considering that the Cowboys were 3-5 WITH Prescott last season and have a huge question mark at HC, I would have rolled the dice on 3 first round picks from Dallas. Even if Dallas is good and the picks fall in the 20s, there's still talent to be had there. Will whomever replaces Garrett be a downgrade? Sure. But if you're upgrading a bunch of other positions that will have a major impact. Then when you factor in the ability to use the salary cap, it's a no-brainer for me.
daveR
Footballguy
The goal is to create a great team, with plus players at every position. You don't trade away THE preeminent player at a premium position if you can help it. If you do, you will be chasing that goal forever. (That is, adding that hole to the list of problems to solve.) Too many fans believe in "blow it up & start over". Good luck, given the constraints of the NFL.
ghostguy123
Footballguy
If you DONT you'll be chasing that goal forever.
What helps you more 3-4 years from now, a retired guy or a couple good players who are like 24-25 years old?
Seems like an obvious answer there, so your "forever" claim only seems to happen if you DONT move him.
Unless you think we can win something significant in the next 2-3 years (which I do not)........then sure, ya keep him.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
YOU know that ALL of the picks acquired will turn into GOOD PLAYERS.
ALL of em. Don't worry about the vast history of the draft because YOU KNOW that ALL of the players acquired will turn into GOOD players.
Randomly go back ten years and look at the first round.
Pick of number from 1 to 32 right now.
Look at the player you'd expect to get from this draft.
2015
ghostguy123
Footballguy
How many good retired players are still producing......
ghostguy123
Footballguy
No, we don't. Our offensive skill players are average, and our QB situation is horrible.
If we didn't have the tiny towel wrapped around our necks perhaps we could have signed a handful of extra decent players......
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Yes, we do.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
The guy who recently extended his contract for FOUR guaranteed years is going to forfeit a year of GUARANTEED money to retire in three years?
Forget about that insanity, we all know Myles entire being is about reaching the Hall of Fame.
He WANTS and CRAVES the HOF and he knows he has to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with these recent HOFers.
Reggie White - 14 years
Bruce Smith - 19 years
Julius Peppers - 17 years
J.J. White - 12 years
Micheal Strahan - 15 years
Jason Taylor - 15 years
Myles has played 8 years and has signed a FOUR-YEAR extension. But he'll forget about the guaranteed money, he'll give that $40 million back and he really doesn't want the HOF.
Yeah, right.
amnesiac
beer is good
click bait season is in full swing.
every day i see articles "Sanders is Awesome" "Sanders Sucks" "Gabriel is Awesome" "Gabriel Sucks" "Flacco is Done" "Flacco Looks Great"
i refuse to click any of them.
but i am curious, are you guys hearing anything except noise?
any real takeaways from OTAs so far?
every day i see articles "Sanders is Awesome" "Sanders Sucks" "Gabriel is Awesome" "Gabriel Sucks" "Flacco is Done" "Flacco Looks Great"
i refuse to click any of them.
but i am curious, are you guys hearing anything except noise?
any real takeaways from OTAs so far?
MAC_32
Footballguy
I am hearing the crashing of the waves from a beach house. Only football news that can be heard right now is bad news. Hope we don't get any before late July when the real work begins.
amnesiac
beer is good
enjoy the vacation!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
No rookie is starting the season at QB.
It's Flacco.
Browns fans, let’s talk quarterbacks — Terry Pluto’s Scribbles
1, The best QB on the field was … Joe Flacco.
5. The Browns were using rookie Quinshon Judkins to catch passes coming out of the field. A top Browns official told me right after the draft that the team believed Judkins can be very effective as a receiver coming from his running back spot. Wednesday showed that promise. Judkins caught 22 passes in each of his last two college seasons.
10. Sanders had a few problems. He went to execute a handoff to a running back and fell down. He dropped back to pass, felt the rush … and then ran back another 10 yards before ending up taking a sack. Some people who have watched Sanders in the workouts said he sometimes has “happy feet,” meaning he leaves the pocket early. Even worse, he tends to run backward … something he did in college.
----------
The best take away IMHO.
This could be HUGE.
Someone has been working out and for the first time came to OTAs in shape.
THIS is my OTA take away.
Browns’ Dawand Jones embraces left tackle challenge despite preference for right side
... In 176 snaps on the left side over the three games he started, Jones gave up no sacks and allowed only six total pressures, according to Pro Football Focus tracking data.
Entering year three of his NFL career, Jones has also totally transformed his body composition.
While he weighs nearly an identical amount as last season when he was listed at 375, he’s noticeably put on more muscle, estimating he’s lost about 20 pounds of body fat.
... left guard Joel Bitonio said. “I think he’s focused and I think he knows, alright, you’re going to play left tackle this year. So he can just work at it, focus at it. But he’s ready to take a step.”
amnesiac
beer is good
awesome!!!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Not biting on the QB chatter but this is something for the fantasy community that actually 'could' pan out.
Browns WR Could Emerge As A Sleeper This Season
...During Day 1 of mandatory minicamp, 24-year-old Jamari Thrash provided an early glimpse of his potential with several impressive catches that generated immediate attention.
Browns WR Could Emerge As A Sleeper This Season
...During Day 1 of mandatory minicamp, 24-year-old Jamari Thrash provided an early glimpse of his potential with several impressive catches that generated immediate attention.
...The shallow depth chart beyond Jeudy creates genuine opportunity for Thrash to establish a meaningful role.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Cleveland Browns Receive Major Defense From NFL Analyst
... Sam Monson of The 33rd Team, raved about Cleveland's offseason, calling it "underrated."
Check the Mic with Steve Palazzolo & Sam Monson
@CTM_Show
The Browns’ offseason has been CRIMINALLY underrated by the national media
"I think this is a crazy grading—utterly ridiculous, in fact."
@SamMonsonNFL
explains three reasons why
Offseason Grades for ALL 32 NFL Teams
2:16:19 Cleveland Browns
2:16:26 and I think they made good decisions to help get out of it that's where I'm at with the Browns they range from D to a B
2:16:31 but I don't think this was a bad off seasonason for the Browns i think three offseasons ago was bad for the Browns
2:16:38 and that made everything bad for this offseason the Deshawn Watson move you
2:16:44 can't you can't criticize them for that every year every offseason but that is like a triple F move however you want to
2:16:50 rate that a few years ago that's still having the residual effect but I think given that given that awful starting
2:16:56 point the Browns are doing a decent job of digging themselves out of it now i
2:17:02 think this is a crazy grading i think this is utterly ridiculous in fact um
2:17:07 again starting point Miles Garrett demanded a trade instead of trading one
2:17:12 of the best players in the NFL they've extended him and got him locked into a new contract albeit you know one of the
2:17:19 most expensive contracts in the NFL but they've gone from their best player wanted out the door to he's happy again
2:17:24 that's good right the the only criticism you could give them is uh like I I
2:17:32 thought drafting where they were number two overall is a potential gift and a way out of their quarterback hell that
2:17:38 as you so rightly say they put themselves in was the worst move in NFL history into Deshun Watson um you can
2:17:45 debate how they got there but they took the they ended up with the quarterback I would have taken at number two like I
2:17:51 would have taken Shadur Sanders just because I think they need a way out of that they got him in the fifth round so
2:17:56 they got the same guy and they're paying him like a fraction of the money they would be paying him if they got him at
2:18:01 number two and they got an extra roll of the dice like a bonus lottery ticket with Dylan Gabriel in the third round as
2:18:08 well so and you can argue that if they didn't think that those two guys really
2:18:14 had a chance of being that answer that their process is way better than mine right why we don't think he's worth this
2:18:20 spot so we're gonna trust that we're that the draft is correct and we'll let every let him slide till day three and
2:18:26 then we'll make a couple of moves and trade down and pick up the extra first round pick next year um and as much as
2:18:34 you know Travis Hunter is special he's unique he's somebody that hasn't come along for decades I still think the
2:18:41 smart move is to pick up the first round pick for next year if for no other reason than you need the quarterback not
2:18:48 the guy that plays corner wide receiver i This is why I think the Jags Browns trade was a win-win in the Jags
2:18:55 situation can one say star player make an impact on the team in Jacksonville i
2:19:00 think absolutely because you have a quarterback you have a star receiver you've got some talent on the defensive
2:19:07 side you add one Travis Hunter to the mix there that moves the needle in Cleveland where the entire offensive
2:19:13 line is unsigned for next year you have questions at receiver your secondary is unsigned for next year you have one one
2:19:21 or two dependable defensive linemen is Travis Hunter moving the needle there or
2:19:27 is it Travis Hunter plus Mason Travis Hunter versus Mason Graham plus the two
2:19:32 extra picks plus next year's first it was just a better move for the Browns and to your point like if we said before
2:19:38 the draft look they're going to forget however you want to care about our quarterback rankings but they've got our
2:19:43 number two and four quarterbacks respectively and Mason Graham in next year's first round pick and an extra two
2:19:50 that's a huge win for me in the draft for the Browns given their starting point which was awful and terrible in
2:19:57 the worst quarterback contract in history yeah the other point that I would make that I don't think comes up
2:20:02 enough is there is a pretty sizable chance that Mason Graham is a better player than Travis Hunter like I know
2:20:09 Travis Hunter is seen of as special and unique and what if he's able to play wide receiver in court like Mason Graham
2:20:15 is one of the top five players in this draft you know if it if it wasn't for some weird measurements like shorter
2:20:22 than Ideal Arms and he weighed in 20 pounds lower than he was supposed to like his tape says he's at the top five
2:20:28 player in this draft they may have gotten the better player in addition to the first round draft pick as well like
2:20:34 there's a sizable chance that that is the case maybe not the most likely case but a sizable chance that they got the
2:20:40 better player in addition to a first round draft pick next year i think this is pure hate for the Browns for no
2:20:48 particularly good reason i think they've done a good job overall given some challenging circumstances that's it they
2:20:55 started Look you can nitpick some of the draft picks fine i would do that they
2:21:01 started digging this year they started digging themselves out of this terrible hole i think that's that's a good
2:21:06 offseason for the Browns given their awful starting point and what we saw from Deshun Watson last year number 30
... Sam Monson of The 33rd Team, raved about Cleveland's offseason, calling it "underrated."
Check the Mic with Steve Palazzolo & Sam Monson
@CTM_Show
The Browns’ offseason has been CRIMINALLY underrated by the national media
"I think this is a crazy grading—utterly ridiculous, in fact."
@SamMonsonNFL
explains three reasons why
Offseason Grades for ALL 32 NFL Teams
2:16:19 Cleveland Browns
Cleveland Browns
2:16:20 just I think this to me it comes down to the starting point was horrible2:16:26 and I think they made good decisions to help get out of it that's where I'm at with the Browns they range from D to a B
2:16:31 but I don't think this was a bad off seasonason for the Browns i think three offseasons ago was bad for the Browns
2:16:38 and that made everything bad for this offseason the Deshawn Watson move you
2:16:44 can't you can't criticize them for that every year every offseason but that is like a triple F move however you want to
2:16:50 rate that a few years ago that's still having the residual effect but I think given that given that awful starting
2:16:56 point the Browns are doing a decent job of digging themselves out of it now i
2:17:02 think this is a crazy grading i think this is utterly ridiculous in fact um
2:17:07 again starting point Miles Garrett demanded a trade instead of trading one
2:17:12 of the best players in the NFL they've extended him and got him locked into a new contract albeit you know one of the
2:17:19 most expensive contracts in the NFL but they've gone from their best player wanted out the door to he's happy again
2:17:24 that's good right the the only criticism you could give them is uh like I I
2:17:32 thought drafting where they were number two overall is a potential gift and a way out of their quarterback hell that
2:17:38 as you so rightly say they put themselves in was the worst move in NFL history into Deshun Watson um you can
2:17:45 debate how they got there but they took the they ended up with the quarterback I would have taken at number two like I
2:17:51 would have taken Shadur Sanders just because I think they need a way out of that they got him in the fifth round so
2:17:56 they got the same guy and they're paying him like a fraction of the money they would be paying him if they got him at
2:18:01 number two and they got an extra roll of the dice like a bonus lottery ticket with Dylan Gabriel in the third round as
2:18:08 well so and you can argue that if they didn't think that those two guys really
2:18:14 had a chance of being that answer that their process is way better than mine right why we don't think he's worth this
2:18:20 spot so we're gonna trust that we're that the draft is correct and we'll let every let him slide till day three and
2:18:26 then we'll make a couple of moves and trade down and pick up the extra first round pick next year um and as much as
2:18:34 you know Travis Hunter is special he's unique he's somebody that hasn't come along for decades I still think the
2:18:41 smart move is to pick up the first round pick for next year if for no other reason than you need the quarterback not
2:18:48 the guy that plays corner wide receiver i This is why I think the Jags Browns trade was a win-win in the Jags
2:18:55 situation can one say star player make an impact on the team in Jacksonville i
2:19:00 think absolutely because you have a quarterback you have a star receiver you've got some talent on the defensive
2:19:07 side you add one Travis Hunter to the mix there that moves the needle in Cleveland where the entire offensive
2:19:13 line is unsigned for next year you have questions at receiver your secondary is unsigned for next year you have one one
2:19:21 or two dependable defensive linemen is Travis Hunter moving the needle there or
2:19:27 is it Travis Hunter plus Mason Travis Hunter versus Mason Graham plus the two
2:19:32 extra picks plus next year's first it was just a better move for the Browns and to your point like if we said before
2:19:38 the draft look they're going to forget however you want to care about our quarterback rankings but they've got our
2:19:43 number two and four quarterbacks respectively and Mason Graham in next year's first round pick and an extra two
2:19:50 that's a huge win for me in the draft for the Browns given their starting point which was awful and terrible in
2:19:57 the worst quarterback contract in history yeah the other point that I would make that I don't think comes up
2:20:02 enough is there is a pretty sizable chance that Mason Graham is a better player than Travis Hunter like I know
2:20:09 Travis Hunter is seen of as special and unique and what if he's able to play wide receiver in court like Mason Graham
2:20:15 is one of the top five players in this draft you know if it if it wasn't for some weird measurements like shorter
2:20:22 than Ideal Arms and he weighed in 20 pounds lower than he was supposed to like his tape says he's at the top five
2:20:28 player in this draft they may have gotten the better player in addition to the first round draft pick as well like
2:20:34 there's a sizable chance that that is the case maybe not the most likely case but a sizable chance that they got the
2:20:40 better player in addition to a first round draft pick next year i think this is pure hate for the Browns for no
2:20:48 particularly good reason i think they've done a good job overall given some challenging circumstances that's it they
2:20:55 started Look you can nitpick some of the draft picks fine i would do that they
2:21:01 started digging this year they started digging themselves out of this terrible hole i think that's that's a good
2:21:06 offseason for the Browns given their awful starting point and what we saw from Deshun Watson last year number 30
