TartanLion
Footballguy
Might prefer the depth of next year to this years 3rd- 4th ranked QB. We’ll always still have a mid to late 1st rounder
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2025 Detroit Lions: 3-1 Lions roll over Browns (28 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
Might prefer the depth of next year to this years 3rd- 4th ranked QB. We’ll always still have a mid to late 1st rounder
Would you give up both of your 2nd rounders to move from 1.06 to 1.03?
Foosball God
Foos
No way
I'd think about it for one of them, if the coaches and Holmes thought Carter was too big of a risk
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Yes to that.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
You're on the Johnson Chart
Unfortunately the Cardinals are using the Fitzgerald-Spielberger Chart
Gonna take 48, 55, and both of MCDC's double shot Venti Expressos
Wow, what's the Red Bull equivalent? He's a big dude.
The prognosis on the tradeup for Jameson in 2022 is looking very good. It was a position of need and a possibly generational talent. It cost a high 2nd and high 3rd, minus a mid 2nd. I'm sure DET is doing due diligence on lots of players.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
yeah my expectation is Brad will surprise us (in a good way)
I saw an interview with James Houston IV after the season ended and he was telling a story about the first time he met MCDC in person. He was pretty intimidated: "Telling ya, Coach is yoked, I was thinking alright don't do anything to piss this guy off."
To move up 20 spots in round 1 without trading a future first was highway robbery.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I was kind of pissed when the trade went down and then I saw what we gave up. Peanuts.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
@BobbyLayne reports now are that Hopkins is likely only going to fetch a 5th and 6th Cooks style deal. Can Detroit afford it?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
$22M in Cap Space with no moves
$39M more available through simple restructuring without cutting anyone
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
That might not include CJGJ and a couple smaller deals that weren’t updated yesterday - but yes, we can afford it
Rookie class will take up around $8M
Rookie class will take up around $8M
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Interesting interview with beat writer Justin Rogers. Talked about the Spielman interview (upthread) and his role, FA signings, etc. Last thing they talked about was Jalen Carter.
Rogers went to the Combine & got the sense the Lions are not enamored with him (this was before the misdemeanor warrant.) Just doesn’t fit from the perspective of whether he loves ball and is completely sold out / dedicated to perfecting his craft.
Justin Rogers on Locked On Lions (Matt Dery)
Carter discussion starts around 21:45
Rogers went to the Combine & got the sense the Lions are not enamored with him (this was before the misdemeanor warrant.) Just doesn’t fit from the perspective of whether he loves ball and is completely sold out / dedicated to perfecting his craft.
Justin Rogers on Locked On Lions (Matt Dery)
Carter discussion starts around 21:45
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Not the worst idea. Great tackle but because he has Hutch arms everyone assumes he'll be a G. That's a high pick for a G (other teams are thinking they'll try at OT first and if that doesn't work you end up with the next Zach Martin.)
Highly unlikely though - Lions just restructured Halapoulivaati Vaitai to free up $7.4M in Cap Space. Guess who is not getting cut now?
***************
This one was a bit complicated, but essentially gave him $3M and added a void year - obscure 50% rule let's them spread it over two years, only next year's minimum ($1.21M) hits the Cap this year.
Bottom line:
OLD - p5 Base Salary was $9.4M each of the next two years and the Cap Hit was $12.4M and $12.4M.
NEW - Base Salary now $1.21M this year, remaining $1.79 gets spread out over the last two years of his original prorated bonus. New Cap Hits of $5.0M and $3.8M for next years void year
Essentially a 1-yr contract with a Dead Cap (void year) 2024. Given his original prorated bonus was $2.9M + $2.9M - and there's no way to make that go away - this is really a phenomenal get.
Holmes killing it in every aspect of his job.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Mecole got 1-yr $6.5M
that's gotta be the market maker for Chark now, right?
I think homie is having a hard time accepting he's not an 8 figure guy
OBJ came off his ridiculous $15-20M number, hoping DJ has his epiphany soon
need a big body to run alongside ARSB & Jamo
that's gotta be the market maker for Chark now, right?
I think homie is having a hard time accepting he's not an 8 figure guy
OBJ came off his ridiculous $15-20M number, hoping DJ has his epiphany soon
need a big body to run alongside ARSB & Jamo
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
CJGJ contract details are in and it's pretty team friendly
- reported as 1-yr $8M fully guaranteed
- p5 base $2.5M
- signing bonus $4.0
- void year so the bonus gets spread over two years, so the Capt Hits will be $4.5M and $2.0M
- Remaining $1.5M is incentives; if the report of $8M fully GTD is accurate these are probably "likely to be attained"; regardless, if he hits the targets the Cap Hit goes to 2024
- IOW $4.5 + $3.5
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The downside to adding void years (which we have been doing a lot of) is potentially lost comp picks, but as always, there's an obscure rule for that.
Comp picks are still eligible for players who have automatic void years built into their initially sign contracts.
If there is a restructure which adds void years, that makes a player ineligible to the comp pick formula.
So for the two I laid out this morning, no comp pick for Big V, but potentially there could be for CJGJ (whom I hope they extend anyway.)
Comp picks are still eligible for players who have automatic void years built into their initially sign contracts.
If there is a restructure which adds void years, that makes a player ineligible to the comp pick formula.
So for the two I laid out this morning, no comp pick for Big V, but potentially there could be for CJGJ (whom I hope they extend anyway.)
I think Chark is looking for something he probably can't get and that's a deal longer than one year. The best chance he has is to accept a one year deal with incentives for games played.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
I'd rather sign Charknado than draft a WR early. They are young enough already there and Chark is only 26.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
he and Goff had good chemistry the second half of the season
Goff had a lot of spectacular big time deep throws to Kalif and DJ last year
they're clearing cap space for something - maybe Brad is thinking about making a move for DHop
heck let's put together a package to get the 3rd pick + Hopkins
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
DJ out here living his best life
first comment: cats on tv could mean jags, lions or panthers - tough read
first comment: cats on tv could mean jags, lions or panthers - tough read
I think I'd rather have Chark at his price tag than Hopkins at his, honestly
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
The remaining prorated bonus immediately becomes Dead Cap for the Cardinals.
No GTD remaining.
His p5 base salary $19.450M & $14.915M.
Can walk away whenever we want.
Think about this trio:
WR X - best high point jump ball receiver in the game
WR Y - impossible to cover Slot who catches everything
WR Z - faster than Tyreek and great at crossing routes
Hopkins came back from the suspension last year and paced for 121-1354-6, and that was without Kyler 6 out of 9 games - he's still got it
IDK man, seems like a price we should be willing to pay
TartanLion
Footballguy
He’s either signing with Panthers or coming back to us if they aren’t offering above whatever we have already told him we will give him.
Others bits I’ve heard last few days …
We’ve put more resources into scouting this years QB crop than we did in the previous 2 years.
Trading up to 3 a possibility
Good thing this year is that there are very few positions where any of our draft picks will have to start immediately - maybe linebacker and DT and that’s about it. Still good time to draft a CB as they take a year to find their feet anyway
Others bits I’ve heard last few days …
We’ve put more resources into scouting this years QB crop than we did in the previous 2 years.
Trading up to 3 a possibility
Good thing this year is that there are very few positions where any of our draft picks will have to start immediately - maybe linebacker and DT and that’s about it. Still good time to draft a CB as they take a year to find their feet anyway
Foosball God
Foos
I like Hopkins a lot, it's just paying draft capital for him and his salary vs. just lower salary for Chark
The remaining prorated bonus immediately becomes Dead Cap for the Cardinals.
No GTD remaining.
His p5 base salary $19.450M & $14.915M.
Can walk away whenever we want.
Think about this trio:
WR X - best high point jump ball receiver in the game
WR Y - impossible to cover Slot who catches everything
WR Z - faster than Tyreek and great at crossing routes
Hopkins came back from the suspension last year and paced for 121-1354-6, and that was without Kyler 6 out of 9 games - he's still got it
IDK man, seems like a price we should be willing to pay
Foosball God
Foos
current price according to that guy
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The way I would settle this is by saying either one would be good. One less spot to have to draft early at.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
It's def nice having so many assets, lot of options. Think Detroit has the 3rd or 4th most draft capital overall.
Going to be harder when we are picking last at Ford Field next year.
TartanLion
Footballguy
Re the WR room we need to remember that Jamo was out for most the year, Chark missed time, as did Reynolds. Yet still we managed. A good OC and offence trumps all.
Reynolds is a reliable and experienced option that Goff trusts and he has put up good numbers when fit. We have Jamo fit and available from the start this time around.
Amon-Ra/Reynolds/Williams/Raymond is not a quartet that necessarily needs an experienced FA on top, although it would be nice.
Chark is welcome back because I think he might still actually be an underrated and undervalued WR that just needs to have a full season of fitness to show how good he is. Less enthused by Hopkins tbh. We can also take someone in the draft in the mid rounds that our scouting team likes and I’d be fine with that.
Doubt it would happen but if Tillman fell to the 3rd round I’d be very tempted. He’s one of the few WRs in this class with prototype size and he looks like an all rounder to me. Would fit in nicely with the other guys currently in this room
Reynolds is a reliable and experienced option that Goff trusts and he has put up good numbers when fit. We have Jamo fit and available from the start this time around.
Amon-Ra/Reynolds/Williams/Raymond is not a quartet that necessarily needs an experienced FA on top, although it would be nice.
Chark is welcome back because I think he might still actually be an underrated and undervalued WR that just needs to have a full season of fitness to show how good he is. Less enthused by Hopkins tbh. We can also take someone in the draft in the mid rounds that our scouting team likes and I’d be fine with that.
Doubt it would happen but if Tillman fell to the 3rd round I’d be very tempted. He’s one of the few WRs in this class with prototype size and he looks like an all rounder to me. Would fit in nicely with the other guys currently in this room
Moonlight
Footballguy
I do have concern about the WRs if we do not resign Chark. Would want a vet with upside if we do not. We can not afford a serious injury to St. Brown
We are expecting a lot from Jamo. He is unproven and may struggle. Drafting a WR to replace Chark if needed would mean we would have basically two rookies (Including Jamo as a rookie).
I worry too much.
Moonlight
Footballguy
That's a problem I'd rather have.
I'm hoping we can transfer some draft capital from this draft to next year through trade. It's such an advantage to have multiple high picks each year and it is also there to use if we ever go high for a QB.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
and the 4th most cap space right now. It sure feels like a big move is coming. I just don't know who or what.
I would counter with:
- Jamo was hurt and the Lions weren't super eager to get him on the field even when we were fighting for a playoff spot. Lets not put too much trust into a WR with 1 career reception.
- Amon Ra got hurt too and it got really grim. We leaned on Hock some then but he's gone. So the team is down a weapon from last year.
- The offense had some rough games when Chark was out. Shut out by New England, 6 points against Dallas, 15 against Green Bay.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
remaining WR FAs:
Nelson Agholor
Odell Beckham Jr.
DJ Chark
Kenny Golladay
N’Keal Harry
Julio Jones
Marvin Jones
Jarvis Landry
Sammy Watkins
One of these is not like the others
Nelson Agholor
Odell Beckham Jr.
DJ Chark
Kenny Golladay
N’Keal Harry
Julio Jones
Marvin Jones
Jarvis Landry
Sammy Watkins
One of these is not like the others
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Most of those guys are retired, they just haven't realized it yet.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
When did you realize it was time to hang 'em up?
I think it was when every team we contacted thought I had already retired
I agree with this and the good thing is Holmes can go in almost any direction.
This is an exciting time to be a Lions fan.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Our Special Teams were #1 overall last year per PFF (I think - somebody correct me if I'm misremembering.) Lost a couple of really good 4-phase guys. Lost a couple good ones here to FA - Woods was our Special Teams captain, and Chris Board signed with the Patriots; when we played them, Belichick called him "probably the best STer we'll face all year." Fripp will figure it out, he's one of the best coordinators in the league, but it's just a reminder how each year is it's own deal. You always have to learn how to win all over again because the group is different. The 2010 team finished strong and that carried over to 2011, but it doesn't always work out that way. There's no guarantee the progression will be linear like the Tigers in the early 1980s or the Pistons in the latter part of the decade.
OTC says we're at $26,148,354 in Cap Space but doesn't have the GG deal, but Justin Rogers reported details yesterday:
Puts us at $23.468M, 4th in the NFL. Today would be a good day to sign DJ Chark.
Special teams should be fine. We lost Woods and Board but did bring back Reeves-Maybin, who is a very good 4-phase special teams player. I also think he offers more as a backup LB than Board did. This is in addition to something you mentioned; we have one of the best special teams coaches in the NFL.
I am still wondering what Holmes will do next. He has done a phenomenal job managing the cap. Between that and the draft he has a lot of flexibility.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
You may be misremembering Maybin lol he was always out of position, terrible coverage LB. But you're a 100% right he was a ST ace his first tour here.
Kind of hoping we pickup Dorian Williams (Tulane) or DeMarvion Overshown (Texas) in the draft. We need offball guys who can go sideline to sideline or drop into zone. Overshown is an ex-safety and could play a Nick Bolton (Chiefs) type role for us. Williams has great short area burst and could be a Warner/Greenlaw type coverage backers. Those guys are awesome, he's not that good by any means, but he's got the traits to fill that type of role.
I know everyone is in love with Jack Campbell but I'm fine with Rodrigo playing the Mike. There are things I like about Campbell but best fit for him would be a defense that tries to funnel backs inside. He's not much as a pass rusher, staying in coverage, or knifing through for TFL.
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