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A-List Celebrity To Be Outed As A Sexual Predator (2 Viewers)

Walking Boot said:
I don't think the incidence rate in the entertainment world is much different from any other industry. I'd bet there are similar ratios of sexual harassment and alleged assaults in the corporate world, in other industries, and certainly in Congress.
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I highly doubt that

 
Koya said:
That's fine. For you. 

Id personally have a similar response.

Its not up to us to determine what is harassment to another, and physically touching someone in that manner certainly crosses the line. Excusing it, imo, is part of the very problem that is being brought to light. 
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Actually, it is. Without some sort of agreed-upon baseline, the term is worthless.

 
Walking Boot said:
I don't think the incidence rate in the entertainment world is much different from any other industry. I'd bet there are similar ratios of sexual harassment and alleged assaults in the corporate world, in other industries, and certainly in Congress.
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I somewhat agree.
But is seems like there are fewer people in positions of power in the entertainment industry, however those select few wield a lot of power. On the other hand, there are a disproportionate number of attractive females trying to stand out among the crowd to make it big in show biz. That combination lends itself to more propositions for sexual favors than any other industry. 

 
James Daulton said:
Eh, we'll have to disagree I guess.  An old dude in a wheelchair poses no more threat than some old broad who smacks my ###.  I wouldn't consider that harassment. 
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In my workplace, we are told sexual harassment = sexual in nature + unwanted.

I think it's clear Bush's actions were sexual in nature. The woman indicates it was unwanted, therefore it was sexual harassment unless there's some missing evidence.

Are there situations where maybe some people should let something slide? Probably. Are we going to hear of allegations that range from "that's horrible!" down to "that's not that big of a deal"? Sure. But, I think anyone who wants to tell someone else that it wasn't a big deal should probably have a ton of information about the situation and be close enough to the parties involved to have the right to suggest such a thing.

 
Christo said:
Actually, it is. Without some sort of agreed-upon baseline, the term is worthless.
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Fair point - I suppose I should say we should not extend what we may be comfortable with and project that unto others. 

It always comes back to my libertarian leanings... someone simply does NOT have the right to invade my space, and forceably touch me in any sexual manner (get that caveat in there for folks who will look to muddle the conversation with someone say, touching your arm to get your attention). Now, while I personally may not feel "harassed" that does not mean its not "harassment"

 
Koya said:
Its not up to us to determine what is harassment to another, and physically touching someone in that manner certainly crosses the line. 
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You say it isn't for us to determine harassment for another is, then you determine what harassment is for another.

Also if we don't determine what harassment is, what is harassment?

 
Let's say some gal's hand brushes my ### as she stands in line behind me (of course it's happened).  By the specifications laid out here I could say I was sexually harassed.  I'm only trying to say that some reasonable thought needs to go into these before allegations are made.  Like in the Spacey case, the dude said it was from 1986, now Spacey's guilty in the public eye and who the hell knows if it even happened?  I don't think that's fair and I think it's a slippery slope. 

 
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matuski said:
You say it isn't for us to determine harassment for another is, then you determine what harassment is for another.

Also if we don't determine what harassment is, what is harassment?
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Thought I made my stance more clear in terms of the nuance, which was a good point.

Yes, we legally, and for sake of societal structure have a line where something is sexual harassment.

That said, it's not up to me to tell someone else they did or did not feel harassed.

Hopefully, we find a reasonable legal spot to land on, to protect as many as possible so that third item does not get lost... and the fact that some people here seem to think its ok to just grab a little butt shows me that we have a long way to go in terms of respecting the rights of others to not be harassed (even if we, personally, would not feel it would be harassment if done to us), nor understanding what harassment is, to begin with.

Apologies if my first comment on this was terribly unclear.

 
James Daulton said:
Let's say some gal's hand brushes my ### as she stands in line behind me (of course it's happened).  By the specifications laid out here I could say I was sexually harassed.  I'm only trying to say that some reasonable thought needs to go into these before allegations are made.  Like in the Spacey case, the dude said it was from 1986, now Spacey's guilty in the public eye and who the hell knows if it even happened?  I don't think that's fair and I think it's a slippery slope. 
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Here is the thing with Spacey - outside of Joe Bryant, I have not seen anyone try to defend Spacey's honor here.  That, to me, is telling.  Even Weinstein had folks trying to defend him, or suggest his behavior fell just short of illegal/disgusting.   I think the people who know Spacey are silently nodding their heads, thinking "Yep, that sounds like something he would do."

 
James Daulton said:
Let's say some gal's hand brushes my ### as she stands in line behind me (of course it's happened).  By the specifications laid out here I could say I was sexually harassed.  I'm only trying to say that some reasonable thought needs to go into these before allegations are made.  Like in the Spacey case, the dude said it was from 1986, now Spacey's guilty in the public eye and who the hell knows if it even happened?  I don't think that's fair and I think it's a slippery slope. 
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Accidentally bumping into someone (whatever part of someone that may be) is not harassment.  But it may still make some folks feel uneasy or worse.

Seriously, you are trying to conflate accidentally touching someone with reaching out, on purpose, to touch their ###?

God, we have a long freakin' way to go here, folks. 

 
James Daulton said:
Let's say some gal's hand brushes my ### as she stands in line behind me (of course it's happened).  By the specifications laid out here I could say I was sexually harassed.  I'm only trying to say that some reasonable thought needs to go into these before allegations are made.  Like in the Spacey case, the dude said it was from 1986, now Spacey's guilty in the public eye and who the hell knows if it even happened?  I don't think that's fair and I think it's a slippery slope. 
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Come on, you really aren't equating that with what Bush 1 is said to have done, are you?   0 people in here would argue that your example is sexual harassment if it's some accidental contact. 

Now, if you followed that up with something like "oh, you know you liked it"...

 
KarmaPolice said:
Come on, you really aren't equating that with what Bush 1 is said to have done, are you?   0 people in here would argue that your example is sexual harassment if it's some accidental contact. 

Now, if you followed that up with something like "oh, you know you liked it"...
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:goodposting:

Or a comment about copping a feel.

 
Koya said:
Accidentally bumping into someone (whatever part of someone that may be) is not harassment.  But it may still make some folks feel uneasy or worse.

Seriously, you are trying to conflate accidentally touching someone with reaching out, on purpose, to touch their ###?

God, we have a long freakin' way to go here, folks. 
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You posited that it wasn't up to us whether another person was harassed. So, I don't know how the intent of the person touching them would be relevant under your scenario.

 
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Christo said:
You posited that it wasn't up to us whether another person was harassed. So, I don't know how the intent of the person touching them would be relevant under your scenario.
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I posited and then refined as my posit was terribly unclear and lacking.  

Maybe I should just take a cue from the many folks who never admit any fault and stick to whatever the #### I said originally, regardless. :shrug:  

Meanwhile, you argue over semantics, and even semantics I admit were poor and tried to clear up, rather than focusing on the issue at hand. 

In this case, that purposefully grabbing a woman's ### in such a manner is wrong, is harassment, and it doesn't matter who did it.

 
KarmaPolice said:
Come on, you really aren't equating that with what Bush 1 is said to have done, are you?   0 people in here would argue that your example is sexual harassment if it's some accidental contact. 

Now, if you followed that up with something like "oh, you know you liked it"...
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I've heard that Bush 1 doesn't have great control of his hands.  Again, we're arguing that a 100 year old guy in a freaking wheelchair who can barely move sexually harassed someone.  It's stupid. 

Here's my litmus test, if it happened to my wife or daughter I'd make some smart remark and we'd laugh about it.  But all the do-gooders in the country now say Bush 1 is a sexual predator.  To me it's way overkill and not giving reasonable thought to the action and it minimizes the instances of real sexual assault and harassment. 

 
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UK's Michael Fallon quits as defence secretary

The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that Michael Fallon has resigned as defence secretary, after he said his past behaviour may have “fallen short”.

Fallon is the first minister to step down from Theresa May’s government in the growing scandal about sexual harassment at Westminster, which has seen a series of lurid allegations emerge in recent days.

He apologised earlier this week over an incident 15 years ago in which he made unwanted advances to the journalist Julia Hartley-Brewer, placing his hand on her knee.

But it is unclear whether other incidents may have prompted his resignation.

 
Come on, intentionally grabbing a woman's butt without her permission is absolutely sexual harassment.

Now, if Bush is becoming senile and not all there, I think we can have the discussion about how serious it is and whether we should impugn the man if that's the only story out there like this, but the action itself is still inappropriate.

 
Koya said:
I posited and then refined as my posit was terribly unclear and lacking.  

Maybe I should just take a cue from the many folks who never admit any fault and stick to whatever the #### I said originally, regardless. :shrug:  

Meanwhile, you argue over semantics, and even semantics I admit were poor and tried to clear up, rather than focusing on the issue at hand. 

In this case, that purposefully grabbing a woman's ### in such a manner is wrong, is harassment, and it doesn't matter who did it.
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Okay, now what?

 
GroveDiesel said:
Come on, intentionally grabbing a woman's butt without her permission is absolutely sexual harassment.

Now, if Bush is becoming senile and not all there, I think we can have the discussion about how serious it is and whether we should impugn the man if that's the only story out there like this, but the action itself is still inappropriate.
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This shouldn't really be hard to get a hand(le) on. Pun? intended

 
Koya said:
Don't grab women's asses (or #######)? 

And I'll go out on a limb to say others should not as well... and if you do, it's fair to call that behavior harassment?

Other than that, I got nothing.
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That's my issue with a lot of this. He touched your butt. What's next?

 
James Daulton said:
I've heard that Bush 1 doesn't have great control of his hands.  Again, we're arguing that a 100 year old guy in a freaking wheelchair who can barely move sexually harassed someone.  It's stupid. 

Here's my litmus test, if it happened to my wife or daughter I'd make some smart remark and we'd laugh about it.  But all the do-gooders in the country now say Bush 1 is a sexual predator.  To me it's way overkill and not giving reasonable thought to the action and it minimizes the instances of real sexual assault and harassment. 
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I guess you are ignoring the David Cop-a-Feel part.  Is he a predator on the lines of Cosby? Hell no, but IMO using the line equates intent, equates to harassment.  I wouldn't be cool with some old dude doing that to my daughter. 

 
Christo said:
That's my issue with a lot of this. He touched your butt. What's next?
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General consensus that it's harassment and shouldn't be allowed is a start. From there, how about a little peer pressure, you know, like telling your buddy who does that #### to cut it out, or stop being their buddy... or don't hire #######s who think it's fine to grab some ### now and then.

All are better than "meh, it's just a little grab-###... boys will be boys!"

 
KarmaPolice said:
I guess you are ignoring the David Cop-a-Feel part.  Is he a predator on the lines of Cosby? Hell no, but IMO using the line equates intent, equates to harassment.  I wouldn't be cool with some old dude doing that to my daughter. 
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Yeah, the no control argument is completely ridiculous.  Maybe he's lost some impulse control with age.  Maybe he's a harmless dirty old man.  Whatever.  But it wasn't inadvertent.  C'mon. 

 
Christo said:
Okay, now what?
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I'm not even sure I understand the question.  A lot of things can ensue.  We can identify it as harassment.  We can tell him not to do it again.  And if he keeps doing it again, his victim can, if she thinks appropriate, file a police report.  Because it's a crime. She can also choose not to.  She can give him the benefit of the doubt.  That's her choice.  But it's not something society should entitle him to. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
I'm not even sure I understand the question.  A lot of things can ensue.  We can identify it as harassment.  We can tell him not to do it again.  And if he keeps doing it again, his victim can, if she thinks appropriate, file a police report.  Because it's a crime. She can also choose not to.  She can give him the benefit of the doubt.  That's her choice.  But it's not something society should entitle him to. 
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It is?

 
Christo said:
It is?
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In every state I'm aware of.  Yes. 

EDIT:  I mean, even if you object to it being classified a sexual assault or battery, it's certainly simple battery.  It's knowing, offensive, physical contact without consent.  It would be a crime if he were going up to people and giving them noogies too. 

 
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I agree with Koya in all of the posts I read. For that, I hate many of you. Some of you simply can't be as dense as you're making out to be. 

 
Walking Boot said:
I don't think the incidence rate in the entertainment world is much different from any other industry. I'd bet there are similar ratios of sexual harassment and alleged assaults in the corporate world, in other industries, and certainly in Congress.
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Bull####, perhaps Congress but definitely not most industries. 

 
jamny said:
UK's Michael Fallon quits as defence secretary

The Ministry of Defence has confirmed that Michael Fallon has resigned as defence secretary, after he said his past behaviour may have “fallen short”.

Fallon is the first minister to step down from Theresa May’s government in the growing scandal about sexual harassment at Westminster, which has seen a series of lurid allegations emerge in recent days.

He apologised earlier this week over an incident 15 years ago in which he made unwanted advances to the journalist Julia Hartley-Brewer, placing his hand on her knee.

But it is unclear whether other incidents may have prompted his resignation.
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If this is the severity of action that leads to the resignation of high-ranking officials, then it's gone too far.
He was interested so he made a move, she wasn't interested and rejected him. He should have apologized right then and there and everyone moves on. Why does this become an issue 15 years later resulting in him resigning? He put his hand on her knee 15 years ago is shocking and horrible? GTFO.

 
EYLive said:
If this is the severity of action that leads to the resignation of high-ranking officials, then it's gone too far.
He was interested so he made a move, she wasn't interested and rejected him. He should have apologized right then and there and everyone moves on. Why does this become an issue 15 years later resulting in him resigning? He put his hand on her knee 15 years ago is shocking and horrible? GTFO.
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Well, like it says at the end "But it is unclear whether other incidents may have prompted his resignation" so there might be more coming out.

 
Wrigley said:
I’ve watched some of these “casting couch” videos 

DISCUSTING!!!!
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So what I do is make a demo tape with you and a male talent. I get that in the hands of Producers who will cast you in adult movies where you will make $1000 to $5000 dollars a day. Today I will be that male talent and I would like you to start my sucking my ####

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
In every state I'm aware of.  Yes. 

EDIT:  I mean, even if you object to it being classified a sexual assault or battery, it's certainly simple battery.  It's knowing, offensive, physical contact without consent.  It would be a crime if he were going up to people and giving them noogies too. 
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Now I'm really confused. Koya said we needed to recognize this type of conduct as sexual harassment. But you're telling me it's already classified as a crime. So what's the issue?

 
EYLive said:
If this is the severity of action that leads to the resignation of high-ranking officials, then it's gone too far.
He was interested so he made a move, she wasn't interested and rejected him. He should have apologized right then and there and everyone moves on. Why does this become an issue 15 years later resulting in him resigning? He put his hand on her knee 15 years ago is shocking and horrible? GTFO.
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Going out on a limb and assuming he went way above and beyond the call of duty in this situation or another and he is trying to walk out before he is dragged out

 
jamny said:
Well, like it says at the end "But it is unclear whether other incidents may have prompted his resignation" so there might be more coming out.
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comfortably numb said:
Going out on a limb and assuming he went way above and beyond the call of duty in this situation or another and he is trying to walk out before he is dragged out
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These may be true, but I'm only responding to what's on the blurb. The severity of the act that we know of, to me, doesn't match the self-imposed disciplinary action.
I'd be interested in knowing the details of the so-called scandal.

 
James Daulton said:
Let's say some gal's hand brushes my ### as she stands in line behind me (of course it's happened).  By the specifications laid out here I could say I was sexually harassed.  I'm only trying to say that some reasonable thought needs to go into these before allegations are made.  Like in the Spacey case, the dude said it was from 1986, now Spacey's guilty in the public eye and who the hell knows if it even happened?  I don't think that's fair and I think it's a slippery slope. 
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LOOK AT ME!

 
James Daulton said:
You really think old George was trying to cop a feel? This is what I'm talking about.  Why can't we apply logic and reasonableness before just claiming sexual harassment? Hell, under the new rules my current wife could have accused me with all the sexual related flirting we did I'm high school.
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My wife and I met while working at a retail clothing store.  I made a dirty comment to her, and she pinched my butt.  Been together for 29 years....

 
:sigh:

The good ol' days when we could say and do whatever to women at work and all it would lead to is a first date. 

 
Hey gang, what if there really are a lot of bad guys doing bad stuff and then also people overreacting to small situations? Could you imagine that?

 
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