A Song of Ice and Fire Reread (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

I remember liking book 4 quite a bit more the 2nd time through after I knew how it was broken up.  Also, I am guessing that I will like books 4 and 5 a lot more now that I got a big helping of D&D writing the last couple seasons. 

Oh my god- a 2nd time and now a 3rd time? I can't. It's rare I read a book a 2nd time. There are just too many books to read and not enough time as is. 

 

[beer 30]

Just downloaded the epub books. Will put them on my iPad someday.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Oh my god- a 2nd time and now a 3rd time? I can't. It's rare I read a book a 2nd time. There are just too many books to read and not enough time as is. 

Just like movies, sometimes I need a reset and like to read something I know I love to get the desire to read flowing again.  For something like this I will still try to read a non-fiction or other book during the day and hammer out a couple chapters of ASOIAF at night.  

I know there is a ####load of stuff I could be reading for the first time, but since I am not a huge reader I don't feel too bad about reading something a few times.  I figure at least I am reading and am trying to break my habit of too many video games at night. 

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

Reading MOCS's post makes me realize I need to read more, or smoke more weed. 

I recommend both. 

Great stuff, I need to read that again tonight.  I didn't get any more read last night, but will try to get a couple chapters done tonight.  

Thanks lots. I just now did the (hopefully) final edit of my write up. I tried a couple of different formats - it was pretty "busy" originally.

I've tried to make it a little more organized.

Let me know if I can change anything to improve it.

No rush on read at all. I have not gone into Bran 1 yet.

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

Since I changed so much from my original post. I deleted the old and am posting the revised version now.

Prologue 1.02

This is going to be much longer than my typical write up, as I believe GRRM put a lot of extra thought into the beginning ... as do most writers.

Opening scene of Game of Thrones:

"We should start back,” Gared urged as the woods began to grow dark around them.“The wildlings are dead.”

“Do the dead frighten you?” Ser Waymar Royce asked with just the hint of a smile.

Gared did not rise to the bait. He was an old man, past fifty, and he had seen the lordlings come and go. “Dead is dead,” he said. “We have no business with the dead.”

“Are they dead?” Royce asked softly. “What proof have we?”

“Will saw them,” Gared said. “If he says they are dead, that’s proof enough for me.”

Will had known they would drag him into the quarrel sooner or later. He wished it had been later rather than sooner. “My mother told me that dead men sing no songs,” he put in.

GRRM opens with 3 men in the middle of a Quest and currently facing a Challenge.

1) Gared - "old man, past fifty" - grizzled veteran - Past

2) Will - POV character - observer & guide - Present

3) Ser Waymar Royce - "lordling" - youth commander - Future

The Old Man (Past) speaks first. He is cautious and wants to start back. The Lordling (Future) speaks second. He is impulsive and challenges the manhood (emotion) of the Old Man. He wants to go forward. The Old Man does not fall into the Lordling's trap. He remains resolute.

Seeing that shaming will not suffice, the Lordling resorts to logic (mind). What proof have we? Once again dodging, the Old Man offers Will's, the POV (Present), word as proof. Will does not like this. However, as the POV character, Will delivers the whammy here:

“My mother told me that dead men sing no songs,”

A Song of Ice and Fire thus begins.

Setting:  

GRRM paints the type of society we are in through the characters. 

Gared, the Old Man (Past) has been with the Night's Watch nearly his whole life. He is the most experienced by far - forty years with the NW. But, he is also the lowest man; the one who is here by birth rather than deed.

Will, the POV (Present), is with the Night's Watch because he was caught "poaching" four years ago. As a common man, he is being punished for trying to survive off of land that is reserved for the aristocracy; at the expense of the many.

Both of these characters are oppressed, but to a different degree and for a different reason - yet by the same person/class.

Ser Waymar Royce the Lordling  (Future) just arrived and is ... a handsome youth of eighteen.

... Mounted on his huge black destrier, the knight towered above Will and Gared on their smaller garrons. He wore black leather boots, black woolen pants, black moleskin gloves, and a fine supple coat of gleaming black ringmail over layers of black wool and boiled leather. Ser Waymar had been a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch for less than half a year, but no one could say he had not prepared for his vocation. At least insofar as his wardrobe was concerned....

His cloak was his crowning glory; sable, thick and black and soft as sin...

...drew his longsword from its sheath. Jewels glittered in its hilt, and the moonlight ran down the shining steel. It was a splendid weapon, castle-forged, and new-made from the look of it...

By the description of Royce, one can see the vast entitlement that comes with being even the youngest son of an ancient house. As leader of the Quest, he (Future) is constantly belittling his older and more experienced followers (Past & Present). He is shown to be bumbling to a certain degree, however he is clearly educated and displays the most logic of the trio (progress).

Royce's skepticism of the threat from the dead shows that in this world, things such as zombies are not believed to be real by the educated (Future). While Gared and Will are clearly rattled, Will internally confirms that they are not usually like this. Until tonight. Something was different tonight. Thus, the ruled classes do not presently believe in such a threat either, but they are more sensitive to its approach than the ruling class.

Their interaction then further guides us in regards to the more subtle social structure of this setting.

Will reflects that Royce is mocked by the common men and thus, hard to follow. He thinks that Gared must feel the same. When Gared wants to build a fire in defense of the cold, he shows Royce the damage he has suffered over the years. Royce still refuses the Old Man's request to build a fire and replies, “You ought dress more warmly, Gared.” This is essentially, "Let them eat cake." Not only is this disregard for the well being of the ruled but also ignorance in regard to them.  (Future is uncaring and ignorant irt Past & Present, even though it is supported and guided by them.) Does anyone really think that Gared did not dress as warmly as possible? And why could he not dress more warmly? Perhaps it had to do with nobility funding.

When Royce is nearing engagement, he seems to ignore Will in regards to being stealthy and even mock's Will for the attempt. Is this just another example of bumbling and inexperience? Or, is it a comment on the folly of the romantic chivalric ideal of honorable combat vs the grittiness of reality? This could also be seen to show the differences between the common man and the ruling class. One must hide in order to survive; the other can flaunt most anything freely and expect fair (or better) treatment.

This spotlights the problematic social structure that will end up being the crux of the song; one of the wheels sought to be broken.

Plot:

The Lordling/Future in his Quest with his 2 followers Past & Present (3 party members) approaches the Challenge. The Old Man/Past, who is wise, urges caution. The Lordling/Future, who is impulsive, pushes forward. The POV/Present must lead the way stealthily.

At a certain point, the wise Old Man/Past is left behind, and the Lordling/Future continues on with the POV/Present. Along the way, the Lordling/Future is clumsy, foolish and arrogant; but smart, educated and brave when he finally faces the Challenge.

The Challenge kills the Lordling/Future. The POV/Present then dies. The wise Old Man/Past is an unknown.

The Challenge is currently 3 fold: Magic (killed Royce as an Other) - the Dead  (killed Will as zombie Royce) - Ice (will kill Garen in hands of Ned Stark).

Trope Notes:

Schoolhouse Rock - 3 Is A Magic Number

Somewhere in the ancient mystic trinity
You get three as a magic number
The past and the present and the future

1) Gared - Old Man - Past - cautious and aged - desiring to go back - Unknown status - but will die by Ned & Ice

2) Will - POV - Present - aware & stealthily observing the the current pathway - Dead - died by Dead Royce

3) Royce - Lordling - Future - impulsive youth pushing forward boldly and foolishly - Dead - died by Magic Other

Conclusion

At the end of this chapter nearly everything has been shattered. The current rule of the Lordling is dead with an uncertain Future. The POV common man/Present is dead as well. Fade to black. The Old Man and the Past are an unknown, but we know he/they shall die soon. By who? Ned of course. With the great sword Ice.

The rest of the Song is about the Quest to conquer the 3 part Challenge; the game that shall determine what and who shall replace all that has been shattered. 

Bran, Son of Ned - judge and executioner of the Past - is the next chapter.

Questions

`1) Who is Will's mother?

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

P.S.

I failed to mention one other "character". The Freefolk. They are they unruled class. (At least by Westerosi standards.)

I don't think they warrant mention above, because they did not really appear - yet. They were only the subject of conversation. By the time Will was able to return, their corpses had disappeared. We know the answer of how, but we never saw them.

They will be dealt with later - as GRRM allows.

 

[otb_lifer]

MoCS doin' work 

 

[sports_fan]

I've completed page 1.

 

[shuke]

MoCS doin' work 

Can you post the Cliffs notes?

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I read a Dany chapter this evening.  not sure the numbering but she is in Qarth.  read a paragraph that made me sit up in my chair. 

Yet even  crowned,  I am a beggar still, Dany thought. I have become the most splendid beggar in the world, but a beggar all the same.  She hated it, as her brother must have. All those years of running from city to city one step ahead of the usurper's knives, pleading for help from archons and princes and magistars, buying our food with flattery.  He must of known how they mocked him. in the end it had driven him mad.  IT WILL DO THE SAME TO ME IF I LET IT.  Part of her would have liked nothing more than to lead her people back to Vaes Tolorro, and make the dead city bloom.  No, that is defeat. I have something Viserys never had. I have the dragons. the dragons are all the difference.   

deep breath, sigh

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

Can you post the Cliffs notes?

ZOMBIES!!!!

OMFG WowWY Woowwww!

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I read a Dany chapter this evening.  not sure the numbering but she is in Qarth.  read a paragraph that made me sit up in my chair. 

Yet even  crowned,  I am a beggar still, Dany thought. I have become the most splendid beggar in the world, but a beggar all the same.  She hated it, as her brother must have. All those years of running from city to city one step ahead of the usurper's knives, pleading for help from archons and princes and magistars, buying our food with flattery.  He must of known how they mocked him. in the end it had driven him mad.  IT WILL DO THE SAME TO ME IF I LET IT.  Part of her would have liked nothing more than to lead her people back to Vaes Tolorro, and make the dead city bloom.  No, that is defeat. I have something Viserys never had. I have the dragons. the dragons are all the difference.   

deep breath, sigh

Yeah. That is great. I had forgotten all about that passage.

 

[Redwes25]

I definitely want to do this but no way am I investing the time without another book coming. Likely won’t start until there is a real release date. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Just got through the Cat 2 chapter last night, so I will wait until I read a little more to post thoughts on these few chapters.  

However, I have been thinking about the prologue a little more and it struck me how well GRRM wove into the intro a couple things that make these books so great spin a couple things on their heads:

1.  He give us backstory on characters even if he is going to kill them in 2 pages.  This really keeps us on our toes and enhances the "anybody can die at any moment" feeling.  Sure, some of the info in the prologue was setting up the idea of houses, and give us a little history of the universe overall, but I think it's also to make us get invested in even the smaller characters.  There are no Star Trek red shirts in these books...

2.  Very early he tells us that doing the noble and heroic thing might not end well for the characters.  Royce was a #### most of the chapter, but when presented with a fight, he stood up and did the heroic thing - as we see, that didn't end well as his sword got frozen and shattered and he got butchered.  I think this is a good way to set up characters like Ned and also set us up for so many of his characters operating in the grey area.  

I can't think of many characters in these books that are one-dimensionally good or bad.  

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I read a Dany chapter this evening.  not sure the numbering but she is in Qarth.  read a paragraph that made me sit up in my chair. 

Yet even  crowned,  I am a beggar still, Dany thought. I have become the most splendid beggar in the world, but a beggar all the same.  She hated it, as her brother must have. All those years of running from city to city one step ahead of the usurper's knives, pleading for help from archons and princes and magistars, buying our food with flattery.  He must of known how they mocked him. in the end it had driven him mad.  IT WILL DO THE SAME TO ME IF I LET IT.  Part of her would have liked nothing more than to lead her people back to Vaes Tolorro, and make the dead city bloom.  No, that is defeat. I have something Viserys never had. I have the dragons. the dragons are all the difference.   

deep breath, sigh

yep Im sure if you go back and look, hints of her wanting to burn it all down are there....

 

[KarmaPolice]

yep Im sure if you go back and look, hints of her wanting to burn it all down are there....

...and I am sure if the next books happen it will be developed and written better.  I am not sure anyone is arguing that there weren't hints or bits of dialogue pointing to that happening.  

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

Just got through the Cat 2 chapter last night, so I will wait until I read a little more to post thoughts on these few chapters.  

However, I have been thinking about the prologue a little more and it struck me how well GRRM wove into the intro a couple things that make these books so great spin a couple things on their heads:

1.  He give us backstory on characters even if he is going to kill them in 2 pages.  This really keeps us on our toes and enhances the "anybody can die at any moment" feeling.  Sure, some of the info in the prologue was setting up the idea of houses, and give us a little history of the universe overall, but I think it's also to make us get invested in even the smaller characters.  There are no Star Trek red shirts in these books...

2.  Very early he tells us that doing the noble and heroic thing might not end well for the characters.  Royce was a #### most of the chapter, but when presented with a fight, he stood up and did the heroic thing - as we see, that didn't end well as his sword got frozen and shattered and he got butchered.  I think this is a good way to set up characters like Ned and also set us up for so many of his characters operating in the grey area.  

I can't think of many characters in these books that are one-dimensionally good or bad.  

This is sweet.

1) After thinking a while about your first point, I can honestly say that I never noticed that before. I believe that my enjoyment was enhanced because of it, even though I did not consciously notice it. I think that if GRRM did not do that so well, then I may not have found many of the things that I am consciously looking for.

Now, I think I will notice this more.

2) I 100% agree. 

Now, I did start Bran 1 last night. I made it exactly this far:

The morning had dawned clear and cold, with a crispness that hinted at the end of summer. They set forth at daybreak to see a man beheaded, twenty in all, and Bran rode among them, nervous with excitement. This was the first time he had been deemed old enough to go with his lord father and his brothers to see the king's justice done. It was the ninth year of summer, and the seventh of Bran's life.
 

I could write more on this than my entire Prologue piece.

But I don't want to. I need time to think about the right words to use.

I did not expect it to be this way. I had not read this passage in years. 

I may also post some other thoughts before I even touch Bran 1. I think it might help.

Keep roll'n - I'm in for the long haul.

Thnx.

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I can't think of many characters in these books that are one-dimensionally good or bad.  

I forgot to comment on this.

 

[Tick]

The chapter guides at https://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html are great.  They cut off about 1/3 of the way through the latest book, but I've done a couple of speed-rereads using these.  There are a bunch of cross-references and notes that I didn't catch when I read through.   

It's my favorite Wiki, because it lets you set your scope - you select which books, novellas, and TV seasons you've read/watched, and doesn't show you spoilers beyond those.  I hate looking up a race in Wookieepedia and accidentally seeing the plot of the book I'm currently in.

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

yep Im sure if you go back and look, hints of her wanting to burn it all down are there....

I have been reading pretty close , this is the first passage that stood out. 

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

yep Im sure if you go back and look, hints of her wanting to burn it all down are there....

I have been reading pretty close , this is the first passage that stood out. 

 

[ragincajun]

I may be in.  Have the set on a shelf however may need to do the audiobook thing since I read like a sloth.

 

[Sinn Fein]

I started again last night.  A couple of things jumped out right away - as I was reading, I could picture the show, as it was such a faithful adaption to the early books.

The second thing was the age of the characters and how perverted GRRM probably is in real life...

 

[KarmaPolice]

I started again last night.  A couple of things jumped out right away - as I was reading, I could picture the show, as it was such a faithful adaption to the early books.

The second thing was the age of the characters and how perverted GRRM probably is in real life...

I got to the second Cat chapter and was quickly reminded how much I disliked one of the GRRMisms that are all over the books - the use of "seed" in the sex scenes.  Don't know why it bothers me, but it always feels a little gross to me.  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I started again last night.  A couple of things jumped out right away - as I was reading, I could picture the show, as it was such a faithful adaption to the early books.

The second thing was the age of the characters and how perverted GRRM probably is in real life...

I know the incredibly gratuitous T&A in the show works against what I'm about to say, but I really think he's trying to show you what medieval life was really like.  It's all based on the War of the Roses and I know he went deep into the vaults researching it.  For me the brutality and casual disregard for modern niceties are a feature, not a bug.  The stuff he describes actually happened all the time.

Related:  one of my favorite chapters in the entire series is when they fall in with the wandering monk who tends to the poor on a walkable circuit -- and the way he describes war from the POV of the commoner going off to fight with his lord.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Also, general comment for the folks who didn't like the 4th and 5th books on the first read:  they were much more enjoyable for me the second time through.  The first time I was so disappointed and frustrated that the runaway locomotive plot and pacing of the first three books wasn't continued. 

But they're really good if you know it going in and accept that they're largely George wanting to show you all the parts of his world you wouldn't otherwise see.  I also read them character by character (so all the Brienne stuff together, then Tyrion, etc) and it helped quite a bit.  Each character could really be a stand-along book.

 

[Snotbubbles]

King Robert dies and the "game" begins.  At this point, everyone but Ned Stark knew how to play the game.  

 

[Peak]

The chapter guides at https://towerofthehand.com/books/guide.html are great.  They cut off about 1/3 of the way through the latest book, but I've done a couple of speed-rereads using these.  There are a bunch of cross-references and notes that I didn't catch when I read through.   

It's my favorite Wiki, because it lets you set your scope - you select which books, novellas, and TV seasons you've read/watched, and doesn't show you spoilers beyond those.  I hate looking up a race in Wookieepedia and accidentally seeing the plot of the book I'm currently in.

Thanks for sharing!  

 

[Man of Constant Sorrow]

I know the incredibly gratuitous T&A in the show works against what I'm about to say, but I really think he's trying to show you what medieval life was really like.  It's all based on the War of the Roses and I know he went deep into the vaults researching it.  For me the brutality and casual disregard for modern niceties are a feature, not a bug.  The stuff he describes actually happened all the time.

Related:  one of my favorite chapters in the entire series is when they fall in with the wandering monk who tends to the poor on a walkable circuit -- and the way he describes war from the POV of the commoner going off to fight with his lord.

Well put.

And I do recall that scene with the wandering monk now. You nail it.

 

[AcerFC]

So I did start re reading (I only read the first book) and one thing I have been wondering. At what point do we learn that Ned took his nephew and not his son. Because everything up to this point has indicated that Jon is a Snow, even that story about bringing the sword of some dude back to his sister.

Also, why wouldnt Ned just tell Catelyn. It would have allowed Jon to stay in Winterfell and not have to take the black 

Unless of course, that part doesnt get thought of until a lot later

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

So I did start re reading (I only read the first book) and one thing I have been wondering. At what point do we learn that Ned took his nephew and not his son. Because everything up to this point has indicated that Jon is a Snow, even that story about bringing the sword of some dude back to his sister.

Also, why wouldnt Ned just tell Catelyn. It would have allowed Jon to stay in Winterfell and not have to take the black 

Unless of course, that part doesnt get thought of until a lot later

I think the first place you might wonder about who Jon is, is in the ned chapter where he is in the dungeon and remembering going and getting his sister.  at least there is a hint in there something is up.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

So I did start re reading (I only read the first book) and one thing I have been wondering. At what point do we learn that Ned took his nephew and not his son. Because everything up to this point has indicated that Jon is a Snow, even that story about bringing the sword of some dude back to his sister.

Also, why wouldnt Ned just tell Catelyn. It would have allowed Jon to stay in Winterfell and not have to take the black 

Unless of course, that part doesnt get thought of until a lot later

Robert wanted to kill every last Targ, with extreme prejudice. Catelyn may not have told anyone, but now Honorable Ned has saddled someone else with his burden.

As for your first question, it never even occurred to me about Jon's parentage until I saw it laid out on a forum around the time Feast came out. Then I felt like an idiot for not catching all of the clues in (mainly) the first two books.

 

[AcerFC]

Pg 71, Arya leaves needlwork and creeps up on Jon as he is watching Bran and Tommen fight. Jon has no idea she crept up on him

Foreshadowing 

 

[AcerFC]

Robert wanted to kill every last Targ, with extreme prejudice. Catelyn may not have told anyone, but now Honorable Ned has saddled someone else with his burden.

As for your first question, it never even occurred to me about Jon's parentage until I saw it laid out on a forum around the time Feast came out. Then I felt like an idiot for not catching all of the clues in (mainly) the first two books.

Page 116 has Ned reminding Robert of the Trident and then breaks away to Ned remembering when Lyanna said. "Promise me Ned"

Thanks, looks like it was all set up. Still dont love not talking Catelyn but nit picking at that point. 

 

[thecatch]

Robert wanted to kill every last Targ, with extreme prejudice. Catelyn may not have told anyone, but now Honorable Ned has saddled someone else with his burden.

As for your first question, it never even occurred to me about Jon's parentage until I saw it laid out on a forum around the time Feast came out. Then I felt like an idiot for not catching all of the clues in (mainly) the first two books.

I think Catelyn would have blabbed at some point. Plus, in addition to your point, Cat’s contempt of Jon helped sell the bit. 

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Page 116 has Ned reminding Robert of the Trident and then breaks away to Ned remembering when Lyanna said. "Promise me Ned"

Thanks, looks like it was all set up. Still dont love not talking Catelyn but nit picking at that point. 

It's been years since I've read these.  Was thinking of starting Dunk n Egg, but might be tempted to pick them back up. 

Ned and Cat married shortly after meeting. They didn't really know each other.  Something like a few weeks/months after they married, Ned was off to fight in Robert's Rebellion, leaving a now-pregnant wife/near stranger.  When he returned to her, he had a child he'd told others was his *******, and he knew the child would be killed if Robert found out who he really was.  He didn't know right then that he could tell her and trust her.

Even after Ned knows who/what Cat is, at what point do you decide to tell your wife that one of the things that has impacted her relationship with you the most was a lie?  Ned was smart and let her resent his 1 mistake fresh into their marriage rather than reopening that wound and having fights anew many years into their marriage.  Not to mention that it keeps her from being exposed to any danger that arises from knowing and it keeps Jon hidden from the danger that she slips up at some point.  

 

[Tick]

Huh - Jon's parentage was obvious to me from the beginning, not sure why as I miss obvious things and get tricked by authors all the time.  Reading that wiki as a companion is cool - I certainly miss every time a character (or ship) is described but not named.

 

[KarmaPolice]

It's been going slower than I thought, but I am still trying to chug along and read at least a few chapters a week.    Last night was a few fairly uneventful chapters - Ned and Robert talking about Dany's wedding, Dany's wedding, and Tyrion's road trip north.  

I do like the images of early Tyrion huddled up in his furs with some wine reading his books since he knows he's not much use in the daily grind of the road.  In there we did get the first talk about his obsession with dragons, I believe since that is the book he was reading and it goes on to describe him seeking out the skulls in the Read Keep.  

Ned/Bobby was mostly just seeing Robert's rage against the Targs and getting a glimpse into how much he has relinquished to the Lannisters since he planned on naming Jaime Warden of the East.  

Probably a stupid question, and I am sure that I missed something, but what exactly is Khal Drogo getting out of this deal besides an underage bride?   I get that it was done so Viserys gets his Dothraki army to take his throne and he used Dany as the chip for that.  Just got me thinking why Drogo would be doing that, especially after GRRM described his army and his house/property he already had.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Huh - Jon's parentage was obvious to me from the beginning, not sure why as I miss obvious things and get tricked by authors all the time.  Reading that wiki as a companion is cool - I certainly miss every time a character (or ship) is described but not named.

I will admit that it never occurred to me on the first read.  NOW it's obvious as I know what to look for though.  

 

[AcerFC]

I will admit that it never occurred to me on the first read.  NOW it's obvious as I know what to look for though.  

Im not much further than you. I the last Tyrion chapter I read it said something along the lines of Jons mother didnt have a lot of herself in him bc he was all Stark. Lolz

 

[Snotbubbles]

Page 116 has Ned reminding Robert of the Trident and then breaks away to Ned remembering when Lyanna said. "Promise me Ned"

Thanks, looks like it was all set up. Still dont love not talking Catelyn but nit picking at that point. 

If Catelyn knew about Jon, Jon would have stayed at Winterfell instead of going to the Wall. 

1.  He would have been with Robb at the Red Wedding and probably would have been killed.

2.  He would never have traveled North of the Wall and gotten in good with the wildlings who are basically his army in the Battle of the Bastards.

3.  The army of the dead would have just been an unbelievable story and none of the remaining characters would have been prepared to fight them when the time comes. 

Jon had to go to the Wall to develop into the character he became.  He had to learn to put duty before love.  He had to see with his own eyes what terrors awaited men if they didn't come together.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Im not much further than you. I the last Tyrion chapter I read it said something along the lines of Jons mother didnt have a lot of herself in him bc he was all Stark. Lolz

I think he goes out of his way to describe Ayra and Jon as the only one that look like Starks, right? The other 4 look more like Cat?

 

[chet]

My 14yo son has been begging to watch the series but I have always refused saying that he had to read the books first.  He called my bluff and is 100 pages into the first book.   

 

[joker]

I'm debating between reading or listening to the books again, but was also looking for a podcast that would go through the books chapter by chapter to clue me in on stuff I may have missed the first time around and really flesh out the story/background/world/etc. I found https://notacastasoiaf.podbean.com and decided to listen to the Episode 1: Prologue  to check it out, and it's pretty sweet. I'm sure I'll have to get used to the voices and sound quality (and I'm guessing the quality will improve), but this is a very nice compliment to the books. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I'm debating between reading or listening to the books again, but was also looking for a podcast that would go through the books chapter by chapter to clue me in on stuff I may have missed the first time around and really flesh out the story/background/world/etc. I found https://notacastasoiaf.podbean.com and decided to listen to the Episode 1: Prologue  to check it out, and it's pretty sweet. I'm sure I'll have to get used to the voices and sound quality (and I'm guessing the quality will improve), but this is a very nice compliment to the books. 

@joker - I have listened to a couple of those, and it's next level.  I mean 1hr+ episode for each chapter?  It is in depth for sure.    There is another one that I have listened to - Davos' Fingers.    Also long episodes, but they go over multiple chapters in the book.  (ie - Ep 1 is Prologue/Bran1/Cat1/Dany1/Ned1).   Set up to be non-spoiler, then they do a spoiler section at the end of the episode that talks about how the chapters might relate to the series as a whole.   This one is still on going, but I think they are into ADWD.  

These are the best 2 that I have come across so far.  There is another one - Unspoiled that was OK, but they are old episodes.  The premise here is one of them has read all the books, and the other is "unspoiled" and is doing it for the first time.  I believe they were married at the time they did them too.  Still - 3rd on the list after the two above. 

 

[KarmaPolice]

Been a busier couple weeks, but still slowly chugging along with this.   Just read the Cat chapter with the assassination attempt on Bran and Sansa chapter with Nymeria attacking Joffrey.  I have some thoughts floating around about these, and hopefully can post more in the next couple days - and get some more reading done.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

For those doing podcasts, it looks like A History of Westeros also fired up a re-read.  There is also a pod called Girls Gone Canon that fired up about a year ago.  Also another reread podcast, but this one looks like they are spitting it up by POV Chapters and are going through that way talking about each character in depth - ie the first 8 episodes are Ned's POV.   

I haven't listened to either of these yet, just brining them up.  

 

[shuke]

Decided not to do this.  Enjoy.  

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

done with the 1st 2 books, this is just a page turning runaway train, at this point.   

 

[Sand]

Just in time for Winds of Winter.

I'll go on record as saying this will never happen.  This is a dead series.

My 14yo son has been begging to watch the series but I have always refused saying that he had to read the books first.  He called my bluff and is 100 pages into the first book.   

My wife would skin me alive if I let my 14 year old anywhere near this series.  Mine is reading Eye of the World right now (such a good book).