A-Train Signs with Cowboys (1 Viewer)

[Colin Dowling]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Step away from the pipe. A-Train had 122 carries, 84 of which came when Jones was inactive.Colin

Does it matter how he got them...are you predicting that Julius Jones is a healthy starter for more than 13 games

I was just waiting for my favorite 'revisionist poster' to show his face. Welcome to 2005. Let the fun begin...

You said having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots in your rankings. Now, you're saying that his injury risk is the problem. Make up your mind, and remember: this is likely to be the part people bump in December.

COlin

 

[LHUCKS]

I don't see this helpling JJ's numbers at all.

A very solid addition for the Boys though.

I see it keeping him alive for not only a full season, but extending his overall life in the NFL.

Without any spectacular backups, he had a chance to see a lot of touches and put up very big numbers...with another capable runner in town, I don't see that happening.This drops him in my rankings about five spots or so.

Sort of like how guys like Ahman Green, Edgerrin James, Willis McGahee, and Thomas Jones lost a lot of touches to the "capable runners" behind them.

The irony of that statement is that all of those RBs came in and displaced an entrenched starter. Jones will get 225 carries this year and Anthony Thomas will get 100-120. This is not good news for Jones' fantasy production.

 

[packersfan]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

 

[LHUCKS]

I was just waiting for my favorite 'revisionist poster' to show his face. Welcome to 2005. Let the fun begin...

You said having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots in your rankings. Now, you're saying that his injury risk is the problem. Make up your mind, and remember: this is likely to be the part people bump in December.

COlin

What exactly did I revise? The presence of A-Train eats into JJ's touches pure and simple. Injury risk is only part of the equation.And I never said, "having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots"

I said the presence of A-Train drops him 5 spots.

 

[LHUCKS]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

 

[Colin Dowling]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

Correct. Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.Colin

 

[The Steel]

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

what game did ATrain take away from TJones besides the 15/15 split game? How can ATrain take away touches from TJones in games where TJones is injured and would not get touches anyways? Did the Bears keep TJones off the field and allow him more time to recover because they had a very capable backup in ATrain? Otherwise, I fail to see the connection.I think ATrain detracts from JJones as well, I just am not following your argument.

 

[packersfan]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

In one game, yes. The only other time where Jones' numbers were impacted came in the three games he missed due to injury. Look again at the numbers I posted. In nine of the 13 games where Jones and Thomas played together, Thomas had 3 carries or less, including five where he didn't have any. How exactly did Thomas take carries away from Jones in those games when 69% of the time he was an afterthought? The most carries he had in those games was 6. He clearly was a backup. He clearly was not a threat to Jones' starting job (this was reinforced by Jones getting virtually of the carries -- with the exception of one game -- after his return from an injury). He clearly did not play any meaningful part in Jones' fantasy season -- the only thing that lowered Jones' output was the injury that knocked him out for three games and that had nothing to do with Thomas.

 

[Colin Dowling]

I was just waiting for my favorite 'revisionist poster' to show his face.  Welcome to 2005.  Let the fun begin...

You said having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots in your rankings.  Now, you're saying that his injury risk is the problem.  Make up your mind, and remember: this is likely to be the part people bump in December. 

COlin

What exactly did I revise? The presence of A-Train eats into JJ's touches pure and simple. Injury risk is only part of the equation.And I never said, "having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots"

I said the presence of A-Train drops him 5 spots.

No, you referenced the presence of a "capable runner" being the reason he dropped 5 spots. Its impossible to quote now since all of your posts have been edited, but you can or all you want, you know what you posted.Trick question: Does Chris Brown go up in your rankings since there is no other "capable runner" in Tennessee?

Colin

 

[Prime]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

Are you arguing for the sake of argument?He had very little effect on T. Jones carries. It was only when T. Jones was injured that Thomas even got a significant amount of touches.

Your like the guy with three strands of hair at the barbershop. Give it up dude, you've lost the war.

 

[LHUCKS]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

 

[LHUCKS]

I was just waiting for my favorite 'revisionist poster' to show his face.  Welcome to 2005.  Let the fun begin...

You said having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots in your rankings.  Now, you're saying that his injury risk is the problem.  Make up your mind, and remember: this is likely to be the part people bump in December.  

COlin

What exactly did I revise? The presence of A-Train eats into JJ's touches pure and simple. Injury risk is only part of the equation.And I never said, "having a capable backup dropped him 5 spots"

I said the presence of A-Train drops him 5 spots.

No, you referenced the presence of a "capable runner" being the reason he dropped 5 spots. Its impossible to quote now since all of your posts have been edited, but you can or all you want, you know what you posted.Trick question: Does Chris Brown go up in your rankings since there is no other "capable runner" in Tennessee?

Colin

What??I added arguments ...nothing was changed.

 

[The Steel]

change in direction... the main reason TJones was the starter in Chicago was that he was a better fit in the offense, not that ATrain sucked. Is ATrain's skill set better suited for the Dallas offense? And if so, what role will he play? If he is like Davenport for the Packers, where Ahman gets inside the 40s and goalline, ATrain could actually help JJones. But if ATrain gets some goalline work, that could be bad. It's not like there are a ton of rushing TDs to go around in Dallas.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

 

[LHUCKS]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

 

[LHUCKS]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

Are you arguing for the sake of argument?He had very little effect on T. Jones carries. It was only when T. Jones was injured that Thomas even got a significant amount of touches.

Your like the guy with three strands of hair at the barbershop. Give it up dude, you've lost the war.

"The War" And you're the guy who has no clue what he's talking about...keep JJ where you had him buddy, I could care less.

 

[The Steel]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

so, basically you are predicting that (a) JJones will get hurt and (b) when JJones gets hurt, he will not be rushed back because ATrain is a capable backup. correct? or what other factors are involved in the 5 spot drop? goalline carries? will they split carries when JJones is healthy? if no RBBC, is there a slight chance ATrain takes the starting role?

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

I think this is a good move by the Cowboys and the A-Train. Richie Anderson just got cut, because he's got neck issues. I remember laughing at Big Tuna when he signed Otis Anderson too. ...not saying that the A-Train will be great, but I think this is a solid move by both parties.

 

[packersfan]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

OK now I'm convinced you're arguing just to argue so this is my last post here. Here are the carries in the games after Jones returned:

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

Yup, those four games with 0 zero carries, the one with 6 and the other with 3 really ate into Jones' production.

 

[LHUCKS]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

so, basically you are predicting that (a) JJones will get hurt and (b) when JJones gets hurt, he will not be rushed back because ATrain is a capable backup. correct? or what other factors are involved?

I actually believe it is much more simple than that,A) JJ couldn't handle the full load last year and had not one but two injuries

B) Parcells brings in a back that was by most accounts still very effective as a between the tackles type of RB and has proven to be durable.

The writing is on the wall. JJ will lose touches over the course of the year...probably a significant amount.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

Yes it's coach speak. Coach says "both RBs will get carries in week 11.". The OTHER RB gets ZERO carries. What do you call it? It doesn't get much worse than zero carries in a week for a RB.Oh wait, I get it. By carries, Smith meant A-Train would be carrying towels and Gatorade during timeouts. I agree, A-Train will cut into JJ's "carries" this year.

 

[LHUCKS]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

OK now I'm convinced you're arguing just to argue so this is my last post here. Here are the carries in the games after Jones returned:

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

Yup, those four games with 0 zero carries, the one with 6 and the other with 3 really ate into Jones' production.

Ask yourself this,Do Jones' 04 numbers look better if A-Train wasn't on the roster?

 

[LHUCKS]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

Yes it's coach speak. Coach says "both RBs will get carries in week 11.". The OTHER RB gets ZERO carries. What do you call it? It doesn't get much worse than zero carries in a week for a RB.Oh wait, I get it. By carries, Smith meant A-Train would be carrying towels and Gatorade during timeouts. I agree, A-Train will cut into JJ's "carries" this year.

You're missing the point, the carries in week 11 were irrelevant...he had 15 carries in week 13.Little things like 15 carries here and there, or keeping the #1 guy out one extra game is what equates into losing carries.

5 spots in my rankings is about 25-40 ff points...it doesn't take a lot.

Jesus, do you own Julius Jones' stock or something?

 

[RBM]

Didn't A-Train once fail to beat out Thomas Jones for a starting job? Does it get any lower than that?

I wouldn't worry if I was a Julius Jones owner.

It was never a competition

 

[Futility]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

OK now I'm convinced you're arguing just to argue so this is my last post here. Here are the carries in the games after Jones returned:

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

Yup, those four games with 0 zero carries, the one with 6 and the other with 3 really ate into Jones' production.

Ask yourself this,Do Jones' 04 numbers look better if A-Train wasn't on the roster?

I'm going to assume that you mean '05, because A-Train wasn't on the roster in '04. You're speaking in the past tense about A-Train being on the roster, however, so maybe you're proposing a hypothetical about last year. Honestly I don't even think you know, but either way, the answer is: not really. If JJ needs a breather, gets hurt, or performs badly, someone else is going to get carries. I don't believe that A-Train will suddenly get a massive increase in number of carries simply because he's somewhat better than the backups Dallas had last year.

 

[LHUCKS]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

OK now I'm convinced you're arguing just to argue so this is my last post here. Here are the carries in the games after Jones returned:

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

Yup, those four games with 0 zero carries, the one with 6 and the other with 3 really ate into Jones' production.

Ask yourself this,Do Jones' 04 numbers look better if A-Train wasn't on the roster?

I'm going to assume that you mean '05, because A-Train wasn't on the roster in '04. You're speaking in the past tense about A-Train being on the roster, however, so maybe you're proposing a hypothetical about last year. Honestly I don't even think you know, but either way, the answer is: not really. If JJ needs a breather, gets hurt, or performs badly, someone else is going to get carries. I don't believe that A-Train will suddenly get a massive increase in number of carries simply because he's somewhat better than the backups Dallas had last year.

I meant Thomas Jones there...so '04 was the correct year.

 

[The Steel]

is it fair to say that ATrain is a nice handcuff? or do you think it turns into a RBBC where JJones' production goes down each game, i.e. JJones gets 20 total touches and ATrain gets 10? there is a big difference between cutting into weekly scoring and having an impact on overall rankings for the year.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

Didn't A-Train once fail to beat out Thomas Jones for a starting job? Does it get any lower than that?

I wouldn't worry if I was a Julius Jones owner.

It was never a competition

Never a competition, but he will for surely carve into some of Jones' numbers.

 

[bostonfred]

How many good games did Jones have where he got fewer than 30 carries?

 

[LHUCKS]

is it fair to say that ATrain is a nice handcuff? or do you think it turns into a RBBC where JJones' production goes down each game, i.e. JJones gets 20 total touches and ATrain gets 10? there is a big difference between cutting into weekly scoring and having an impact on overall rankings for the year.

Remains to be seen to what extent A-Train eats into his numbers...right now I think it's safest to bump JJ down a few spots. I bump him 5 because I don't think he can stay healthy.A-Train could be a tremendous sleeper this year if JJ can't stay healthy in camp again...or during the season again.

 

[Prime]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

Are you arguing for the sake of argument?He had very little effect on T. Jones carries. It was only when T. Jones was injured that Thomas even got a significant amount of touches.

Your like the guy with three strands of hair at the barbershop. Give it up dude, you've lost the war.

"The War" And you're the guy who has no clue what he's talking about...keep JJ where you had him buddy, I could care less.

Not only did you not get the analogy about you losing the argument on every level and you still continue.

 

[LHUCKS]

Didn't A-Train once fail to beat out Thomas Jones for a starting job?  Does it get any lower than that?

I wouldn't worry if I was a Julius Jones owner.

It was never a competition

Never a competition, but he will for surely carve into some of Jones' numbers.

 

[Futility]

Correct.  Jones numbers were affected by Jones own health, not by A-Train.

Colin

Ahhh...but Jones wasn't hurried back when he went down to injury, as a matter of fact the Bears kept Jones out longer than they needed to because they had a very capable RB taking the load.A-Train takes touches away from JJ pure and simple...enough to drop him about 5 spots in my rankings.

The Arlington Heights Daily Herald reports Anthony Thomas and Thomas Jones (foot, probable) will see action in Week 11. "Both guys figure to play no matter what," coach Lovie Smith said. "Anthony Thomas has played well and has proven that he deserves some reps. We feel like we have two tailbacks that we can use this week."

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

OK now I'm convinced you're arguing just to argue so this is my last post here. Here are the carries in the games after Jones returned:

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

Yup, those four games with 0 zero carries, the one with 6 and the other with 3 really ate into Jones' production.

Ask yourself this,Do Jones' 04 numbers look better if A-Train wasn't on the roster?

I'm going to assume that you mean '05, because A-Train wasn't on the roster in '04. You're speaking in the past tense about A-Train being on the roster, however, so maybe you're proposing a hypothetical about last year. Honestly I don't even think you know, but either way, the answer is: not really. If JJ needs a breather, gets hurt, or performs badly, someone else is going to get carries. I don't believe that A-Train will suddenly get a massive increase in number of carries simply because he's somewhat better than the backups Dallas had last year.

I meant Thomas Jones there...so '04 was the correct year.

Then the answer is yes. By 4 points. I'll gladly take a 4 point dip in JJ's production if his ADP drops because of the signing.

 

[Clayton Gray]

Ask yourself this,

Do Jones' 04 numbers look better if A-Train wasn't on the roster?

That doesn't matter unless your '05 league awards points for '04 yardage.I think Jones' '05 carries will change only slightly downward with Thomas on the roster. The difference this makes for the Cowboys is that Thomas will pick up the rushes that were slated for Anderson and also consolidate the majority of carries from the other Dallas backup RBs (making Barber, Lee, Bickerstaff, etc worthless in the process).

Also, remember that Thomas isn't a super-talented player. There was a reason is sat in free agency this long. It's likely that a healthy Anderson has Thomas remaining in the free agency pool.

 

[KnowledgeReignsSupreme]

I meant Thomas Jones there...so '04 was the correct year.

Again coachspeak. No coach is gonna come out and say "our backup sucks and I wouldn't trust him to park my car so I can't wait to get our starter back on the field". He's gonna say "well we feel confident with the guy we have backing up <insert starter's name> so we don't have to rush him back" In all actuality, TJ probably wouldn't have come back before the week he did anyway. And if he does get rushed back, now he runs the risk of reinjuring himself which would've hurt his overall numbers even more. Having a capable backup on the roster is win-win for the starter.

RBs get injured... Often. Fantasy wise, I'd rather him have a solid backup so one of my top RBs doesn't try to rush back, play ineffectively and reinjure himself killing more games of production.

 

[packersfan]

How many good games did Jones have where he got fewer than 30 carries?

From a fantasy perspective 3 of 4.23-88-1

25-80

22-57

29-149-1

The only dud came in Week 16 vs. the Giants (22-57). As a fantasy owner I'll take 80+ yards every single week from a RB (consider that projects to a season of nearly 1,300 yards). Unless you're in a league that uses YPC it doesn't matter how many carries a guy gets as long as he gets you good yardage -- and Jones got good yardage in all but one of his starts after returning from the shoulder injury.

 

[Clayton Gray]

is it fair to say that ATrain is a nice handcuff?  or do you think it turns into a RBBC where JJones' production goes down each game, i.e. JJones gets 20 total touches and ATrain gets 10?  there is a big difference between cutting into weekly scoring and having an impact on overall rankings for the year.

Remains to be seen to what extent A-Train eats into his numbers...right now I think it's safest to bump JJ down a few spots. I bump him 5 because I don't think he can stay healthy.

So that means yesterday, you thought Jones could stay healthy. Why is he more of a health risk with Thomas on the roster?

 

[diesel7982]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

Yes it's coach speak. Coach says "both RBs will get carries in week 11.". The OTHER RB gets ZERO carries. What do you call it? It doesn't get much worse than zero carries in a week for a RB.Oh wait, I get it. By carries, Smith meant A-Train would be carrying towels and Gatorade during timeouts. I agree, A-Train will cut into JJ's "carries" this year.

You're missing the point, the carries in week 11 were irrelevant...he had 15 carries in week 13.Little things like 15 carries here and there, or keeping the #1 guy out one extra game is what equates into losing carries.

5 spots in my rankings is about 25-40 ff points...it doesn't take a lot.

Jesus, do you own Julius Jones' stock or something?

This is just silly. Top RBs dont get more than 75-80% of a teams carries in most cases, and only in extreme cases do we see 90%+.Jones isnt going to "lose" any carries to Atrain. The carries that the other Rbs would have gotten(anderson, lee, bickerstaff) will now go to Atrain.

 

[LHUCKS]

Thomas Jones actually goes against your argument as A-Train definitely took carries from him.

He did? You might want to recheck your facts:Week 1: Jones 21/Thomas 3

Week 2: Jones 23/Thomas 5

Week 3: Jones 22/Thomas 2

Week 4: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 6: Jones 24/Thomas 1

Week 7: Jones 13/Thomas 5

Week 8: Thomas 25 (Jones hurt)

Week 9: Thomas 28 (Jones hurt)

Week 10: Thomas 29 (Jones hurt)

Week 11: Jones 18/Thomas 0

Week 12: Jones 14/Thomas 3

Week 13: Jones 15/Thomas 15

Week 14: Jones 13/Thomas 0

Week 15: Jones 15/Thomas 6

Week 16: Jones 22/Thomas 0

Week 17: Jones 26/Thomas 0

So let's see, there was only one game the entire season where Thomas took meaningful carries away from Jones. By contrast there were five games where he did not get a single carry and a total of nine games where he had three or less.

It's pretty obvious all Thomas was last season was a backup. Jones was clearly the primary RB and Thomas was no threat to take any carries away from him -- even after Thomas had some good games in relief of the injured Jones.

Care to restate your position?

Uh no...A-Train had 122 carries.Care to restate your's?

Why should I? The numbers I presented clearly discount your point. The bulk of Thomas' carries came in the three games when Jones was hurt. In the games Jones played, Thomas barely got on the field. What exactly about the nine games of those 13 with 3 carries or less did you fail to grasp? Just curious.

So you're saying that Thomas Jones' numbers weren't affected by A-Train's presence last year?

Are you arguing for the sake of argument?He had very little effect on T. Jones carries. It was only when T. Jones was injured that Thomas even got a significant amount of touches.

Your like the guy with three strands of hair at the barbershop. Give it up dude, you've lost the war.

"The War" And you're the guy who has no clue what he's talking about...keep JJ where you had him buddy, I could care less.

Not only did you not get the analogy about you losing the argument on every level and you still continue.

Several people hear seem to be in agreement with the fact that A-Train has a very good chance to eat into JJ's carries.So where did you draft JJ?

 

[LHUCKS]

is it fair to say that ATrain is a nice handcuff?  or do you think it turns into a RBBC where JJones' production goes down each game, i.e. JJones gets 20 total touches and ATrain gets 10?  there is a big difference between cutting into weekly scoring and having an impact on overall rankings for the year.

Remains to be seen to what extent A-Train eats into his numbers...right now I think it's safest to bump JJ down a few spots. I bump him 5 because I don't think he can stay healthy.

So that means yesterday, you thought Jones could stay healthy. Why is he more of a health risk with Thomas on the roster?

No it means that the ball is forced to JJ more without another capable RB on the roster...and injury is only party of the equation here.We have no word from Parcells on how he wants to use A-Train...that seems to be getting lost here.

 

[LHUCKS]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

Yes it's coach speak. Coach says "both RBs will get carries in week 11.". The OTHER RB gets ZERO carries. What do you call it? It doesn't get much worse than zero carries in a week for a RB.Oh wait, I get it. By carries, Smith meant A-Train would be carrying towels and Gatorade during timeouts. I agree, A-Train will cut into JJ's "carries" this year.

You're missing the point, the carries in week 11 were irrelevant...he had 15 carries in week 13.Little things like 15 carries here and there, or keeping the #1 guy out one extra game is what equates into losing carries.

5 spots in my rankings is about 25-40 ff points...it doesn't take a lot.

Jesus, do you own Julius Jones' stock or something?

This is just silly. Top RBs dont get more than 75-80% of a teams carries in most cases, and only in extreme cases do we see 90%+.Jones isnt going to "lose" any carries to Atrain. The carries that the other Rbs would have gotten(anderson, lee, bickerstaff) will now go to Atrain.

It's silly to say that A-Train takes 25-40 ff points from JJ??

 

[bostonfred]

How many good games did Jones have where he got fewer than 30 carries?

From a fantasy perspective 3 of 4.23-88-1

25-80

22-57

29-149-1

The only dud came in Week 16 vs. the Giants (22-57). As a fantasy owner I'll take 80+ yards every single week from a RB (consider that projects to a season of nearly 1,300 yards). Unless you're in a league that uses YPC it doesn't matter how many carries a guy gets as long as he gets you good yardage -- and Jones got good yardage in all but one of his starts after returning from the shoulder injury.

Better than I thought. Still, it took 100 carries to get those 374 yards and 2 TDs. I just don't see him getting 400 carries next year, especially with this news.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Man, is Dallas gonna run the crap out of the ball.

 

[LHUCKS]

That doesn't matter unless your '05 league awards points for '04 yardage.

I was speaking to the A-Train/Thomas Jones argument, thus '04 did matter.

I think Jones' '05 carries will change only slightly downward with Thomas on the roster. The difference this makes for the Cowboys is that Thomas will pick up the rushes that were slated for Anderson and also consolidate the majority of carries from the other Dallas backup RBs (making Barber, Lee, Bickerstaff, etc worthless in the process).

Definitely a possibility that it is only a slight dip, but I think A-Train is a bit better than many on this board give him credit for.

Also, remember that Thomas isn't a super-talented player. There was a reason is sat in free agency this long. It's likely that a healthy Anderson has Thomas remaining in the free agency pool.

A-Train may not be supertalented, but he is very solid IMO. As for him being on the market for a while, it was a bad year to be a free agent RB...I don't think you can read too much into that.

 

[Wolverine]

I think we can all agree that last season the Cowboy`s weren`t very successful. One of the big reasons was they didn`t run the ball enough. In 2004 they ran the ball 449 times as compared to 515 in 2003. Drafting as much defence as they did look for them to return to the 2003 model where they ran the ball and controlled the clock. To do this you need quality backs. There`s no Richie Anderson this year and beyond Jones going into this offseason little to no depth. Atrain provides a solid backup who can carry the load if needed. He won`t cut into Jones production , there will be enough carries to go around.

 

[Clayton Gray]

is it fair to say that ATrain is a nice handcuff?  or do you think it turns into a RBBC where JJones' production goes down each game, i.e. JJones gets 20 total touches and ATrain gets 10?  there is a big difference between cutting into weekly scoring and having an impact on overall rankings for the year.

Remains to be seen to what extent A-Train eats into his numbers...right now I think it's safest to bump JJ down a few spots. I bump him 5 because I don't think he can stay healthy.

So that means yesterday, you thought Jones could stay healthy. Why is he more of a health risk with Thomas on the roster?

No it means that the ball is forced to JJ more without another capable RB on the roster...and injury is only party of the equation here.We have no word from Parcells on how he wants to use A-Train...that seems to be getting lost here.

Having Thomas around will allow Jones to overcome any ailments that he might encounter this season, and that will likely lead to Jones getting slightly fewer touches. Do you agree?Of course that also means he'll be heathier and fresher when he does touch the ball. A healthier and fresher back will be more productive with his touches. Do you agree?

This healthier and fresher version of Jones (with Thomas) will be able to overcome losing a handful of carries and post yardage totals that are greater than (or at least equal to) the totals of the worn down and overused version of Jones (without Thomas). Do you agree?

 

[Futility]

Man, is Dallas gonna run the crap out of the ball.

They were playing from behind a lot last year and JJ still got tons of carries. Can you imagine how much Dallas will run the ball when it has a lead and confidence in its defense?

 

[Colin Dowling]

I'm pretty sure that counts as taking carries.

No, that counts as coachspeak. Please let us know how many carries A-Train had in week 11.TIA

Oh, we're going to dismiss that as coachspeak

so, basically you are predicting that (a) JJones will get hurt and (b) when JJones gets hurt, he will not be rushed back because ATrain is a capable backup. correct? or what other factors are involved?

I actually believe it is much more simple than that,A) JJ couldn't handle the full load last year and had not one but two injuries

B) Parcells brings in a back that was by most accounts still very effective as a between the tackles type of RB and has proven to be durable.

The writing is on the wall. JJ will lose touches over the course of the year...probably a significant amount.

A) You're wrong. Jones endured the bulk of the work (effectively, I might add) after returning from a freak injury. There was no further injury once he returned and he held up admirably in helping the Cowboys make a last season push for wins.B) No argument here. He brought in an effective backup. Good play by the Cowboys.

THe writing is on the wall. LHUCKS will be wrong again this year about something significant, and he'll go to great lengths to make sure no one understands his point so he simply looks "misinterpretted" rather than "wrong."

"If you can't convince them, confuse them" - Ronald Reagan

Colin

 

[Colin Dowling]

How many good games did Jones have where he got fewer than 30 carries?

From a fantasy perspective 3 of 4.23-88-1

25-80

22-57

29-149-1

The only dud came in Week 16 vs. the Giants (22-57). As a fantasy owner I'll take 80+ yards every single week from a RB (consider that projects to a season of nearly 1,300 yards). Unless you're in a league that uses YPC it doesn't matter how many carries a guy gets as long as he gets you good yardage -- and Jones got good yardage in all but one of his starts after returning from the shoulder injury.

Better than I thought. Still, it took 100 carries to get those 374 yards and 2 TDs. I just don't see him getting 400 carries next year, especially with this news.

I beilieve one of those games was against Washington, and one was against Philly.

 

[Winston Smith]

As an A-Train fan, I think this is a great move for him. Unlike New Orleans or some of the other places he was looking, the starter ahead of him is not firmly entrenched, as JJ still has plenty to prove. That said, I would project him for 5-8 carries a game (perhaps 100 on the season). I'll drop my projections for JJ just a tad, but certainly not much.