**AFC Divisional Round - Texans at Chiefs**(-8.5, 42) 4:30 on ABC (1 Viewer)

[JohnnyU]

I don’t either, but something is going on with #74 and no one can really explain why.

People have posted explanations upthread about this already and you choose to either ignore it or are obsessed about it for some reason.

He pushes the limit on the rule? Yes. We all know that. Other offensive linemen also do it. All of this has been explained to you already.

What more do you want here? A letter from Roger Goodell admitting the NFL is helping the Chiefs? Come on man, this is getting tired now.

Using others have done it isn’t a good answer, sorry. None are more obvious than Taylor. Blatant is the correct word. Every passing play? Really? Ok, if others have done it that makes it all better.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I only think the NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars because they started scripting outcomes. Not every game mind you, but the ones that secure storylines and produce the most interest... yeah, why wouldn't they.

That's exactly the right question to ask.

And the answer for me is the same as I weigh most questions: How does the upside compare to the downside?

In this case, the upside of cheating to get the outcomes you want is negligible compared to the nuclear fallout that would happen if they were to be found cheating.

Now with sports book betting legal, it's more imperative than ever to have a product with integrity. But it's been that way for many years. Since Shoeless Joe Jackson almost put major league baseball out of business.

Sure, Kansas City vs Detroit in a Super Bowl might have the most attention and drama of any matchup.

But it would be at best maybe 1% more interesting than Buffalo and Philadelphia. If that.

And the downside of risking the entire enterprise for a slightly better matchup just isn't feasible in my opinion.

Losing teams have complained about the fix being in for as long as teams have kept score.

Then please do your best to answer my quesiton in post #695. What are your thoughts on what Will Anderson said in post #697? What are your thoughts on the phantom roughing the passer calls in this game? What about the phantom PI on Schultz?

I think they're wrong. As I said, losers have whined about the officials forever.

So, your eyes told you those weren't bad calls? ALL OF THEM. If that's true, then there's nothing more I can say to you on the subject. You don't think #74 false starts repeatedly? Or at the very least lines up too far off the line giving him an advantage? The latter was called on Baltimore multiple times. That alone is a penalty on KC that doesn't get called. So Taylor is doing two things to get penalized. He's lining up too far from the LOS and he leaves early on the snap count. While he is the 4th most penalized player, he should be the #1 most penalized player. It is my belief that KC is counting on the refs not calling this all the time and at the end of the day it is to their advantage. If he didn't play for the Chiefs he would be out of the league.

I would ask Joe the question differently. Everyone in America sees how biased the calls are in favor of Mahomes.

So Joe — what is your theory on what is happening with the multi-year consistency of bad calls?

Bump for Joe

Thanks. I don't have any theory. I said above I think Mahomes gets the Jordan treatment at times and gets the benefit of close calls. Same as Brady did and Manning and most every superstar.

But again, my primary point is I don't think the league would ever risk something so catastrophic as fixing games. The upside is minimal and the downside is huge.

 

[Joe Bryant]

What is your theory on it @Alex P Keaton ?

Apologies if you've already answered, but do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

 

[Joe Bryant]

Nobody is saying they "call it so they win".

I asked:

"Do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

@Dizzy replied, "I do. And I don't think it's anything new."

@efactor responded to @Dizzy with "Sadly, I think you are spot on."

Those folks are obviously entitled to their opinions.

 

[rockaction]

"Do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

Was I strong enough in my answer to give a strong “no,” and that I’m frankly stunned that people believe that?

Then again, I was stunned by Al-Qaeda attacking us even though they’d explicitly announced it, the banking crisis, Tim Donaghy, and a whole lot of things the past twenty years.

It did not help when Tim Donaghy had 10,000 phone calls to another referee and David Stern announced the investigation was over and that everybody else was clean. Or like Spygate when the NFL said it destroyed the Patriots tapes and that there was nothing on them. "Why’d we destroy them in our offices? No reason."

That did not help sports. At all. So you get beliefs like Dizzy and efactor have, who, like you pointed out, are entirely entitled to their own opinion.

I just don’t see it, but there’s been a whole lot of stuff going around where you have to pause a bit before dismissing it, and on top of that, you have to believe people with a self-interest to do what they’re being accused of. It’s a bad situation that could be cleaned up by competent officiating, which the public, the league, and the refs all don’t seem to want.

 

[ShamrockPride]

"Do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

I just don’t see it, but there’s been a whole lot of stuff going around where you have to pause a bit before dismissing it, and on top of that, you have to believe people with a self-interest to do what they’re being accused of. It’s a bad situation that could be cleaned up by competent officiating, which the public, the league, and the refs all don’t seem to want.

What exactly makes you believe this?

 

[rockaction]

What exactly makes you believe this?

Because when the NFL locked the officials out that year (part of that was they wanted full-time officials and the officials did not want to work full-time, contrary to reports about the issue), the public was absolutely outraged and the media took up the public’s cause. They wanted their refs back, and they stormed and stamped until the NFL relented and stopped the lockout. It was the Golden Tate/Green Bay Hail Mary play that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.

Not being a jerk, but you might have been too young and into other things to remember it. If you do remember, I’ll jog the memory further.

2012 NFL referee lockout - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

As for the public, it was weird. There really was a hue and cry. (Don’t mess with football—we’re so bourgeois Roman).

From Wiki: In an open letter, Goodell told fans "you deserve better" than games being officiated by replacements. He regretted an agreement not being reached sooner and the "unfortunate distractions to the game”

 

[The_Man]

Star players in any sport always get a little deference. Josh Allen gets the same. Brady got it. It's life.

Lamar Jackson demonstrably does not get it. I don’t think Jalen Hurts gets it.

Just saying Jalen has taken 2 very borderline hits today, I don’t think either was a flag and yet both were at least as bad as the plays where Mahomes drew flags

LOL at that unflagged hit on Lamar

 

[Alex P Keaton]

What is your theory on it @Alex P Keaton ?

Apologies if you've already answered, but do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

Nope. Not even remotely. I think it’s a combo of:
1. Stars get calls (Jordan theory)
2. Officiating is really hard - they aren’t perfectly consistent
3. Inherent bias - people are sick of the Chiefs so we only notice the favorable calls they get
4. The NFL doesn’t care about getting officiating “right” — to expand on this, if the NFL really cared, they could do more basic stuff like open up more of the rulebook to make a higher % of plays reviewable or open to challenge flags. But they don’t. They could be more open and honest about mistakes officials make — but they rarely admit mistakes, and when they do, there is no evidence the offending officials are punished. The NBA had the same issue to an extreme……and only the betting scandal and Mark Cuban’s maniacal focus on quality officiating shamed them into making improvements. “Protect the shield” mindset. Human nature.

Anyway, I think it’s a complex topic.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

"Do you think the NFL is intentionally trying to help the Chiefs win by having the officials intentionally influence the outcome of the game?"

Was I strong enough in my answer to give a strong “no,” and that I’m frankly stunned that people believe that?

Then again, I was stunned by Al-Qaeda attacking us even though they’d explicitly announced it, the banking crisis, Tim Donaghy, and a whole lot of things the past twenty years.

It did not help when Tim Donaghy had 10,000 phone calls to another referee and David Stern announced the investigation was over and that everybody else was clean. Or like Spygate when the NFL said it destroyed the Patriots tapes and that there was nothing on them. "Why’d we destroy them in our offices? No reason."

That did not help sports. At all. So you get beliefs like Dizzy and efactor have, who, like you pointed out, are entirely entitled to their own opinion.

I just don’t see it, but there’s been a whole lot of stuff going around where you have to pause a bit before dismissing it, and on top of that, you have to believe people with a self-interest to do what they’re being accused of. It’s a bad situation that could be cleaned up by competent officiating, which the public, the league, and the refs all don’t seem to want.

Here’s the thing: Donaghy WAS fixing games. We know that now. And anybody impartial who watched the 2002 Western Conference Finals (Kings vs Lakers) knew that it was fixed. It’s actually delusional or insane for anyone who was alive to witness it……to pretend otherwise.

And David Stern quite clearly swept all the rest under the rug.

It’s also really odd when Chris Paul has a 2-17 lifetime record in games officiated by Scott Foster. I mean, a guy with a 64% career winning percentage is 2-17 with a specific referee on the court.

Now do I think the NBA rigs those games? Oh, heck no. Would it be easy for the NBA to slot Scott Foster in to referee a critical game when they want Chris Paul’s team to lose? Uh, yeah.

Given all the above…..why would the NFL dynamic be completely different? It’s all human behavior and bias. I don’t believe it’s a grand conspiracy.

But I also think it’s absurd that a) anyone thinks this stuff is total fiction, b) the pro sports leagues, especially NBA and NFL, don’t do more to combat it.

 

[rockaction]

But I also think it’s absurd that a) anyone thinks this stuff is total fiction, b) the pro sports leagues, especially NBA and NFL, don’t do more to combat it.

Oh yeah, Donaghy fixing games was my point. I knew point shaving happened; at the time (I was younger) it never really occurred to me that they’d get to the officiating (outside of boxing, which has always reeked of fixing). So it has happened and neither the participants nor the owners nor the commissioner (who answers to the owners) is totally immune from possibly stepping into that type of behavior if left unchecked. My point about Stern was exactly that he swept it under the rug without any reform or change in oversight. My friend and I at the time (we worked non-profit in DC but followed sports ardently) used to joke about the 10,000 texts. We laughed. I was like, “bro, we’re tight. I am not sending you 10,000 messages in a month for no reason.” But no, we were told it was nothing.

Bullspit.

It’s why I don’t like the gambling partnerships the NFL is involved with at all. There’s too much incentive there to mess around with the results of games. And Bill Simmons agrees with you about the slotting of officials and has written about it more than once. And I agree with you that they haven’t done enough to combat it. They really should lock the officials out again, pay them a hefty wage (are any of these owners going to see profits shrink if they pay the refs a few more million collectively?), and train them better or get them younger and more able to officiate these athletes. I think that’s what we all want.

I just am surprised that people think it goes to scripted or overt conspiracy.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

Nobody is saying they "call it so they win".

It's an attempt to nudge a game in a direction when possible. If KC started playing like the Jags, well, the refs can't make up for that massive a deficiency.

Nobody is saying NFL is calling games, rather gentle attempts to steer it in a direction when possible.

c'mon ...let's be honest.....bottom line you are saying the exact same frickin thing.....nudging or gentle attempts to steer a game are the same as making calls so they win....

you are trying to sugar coat it.....both indicate the officials are not calling the game the way it is supposed to be called.....give me break...

if your gonna say something....be man or woman enough just to say it...

 

[Andrew74]

Texans sound like a bunch of whiners. Scary how many people drink this conspiracy Kool-aid. Everybody’s been screwed over by the refs, Chiefs included.

 

[Rubi]

Yes,The NFL,which is all about revenue,is conspiring to make sure the 34th ranked sports television market,Kansas City
Wins every year
Instead of the top three markets,New York,L.A. and Chicago
If there's a conspiracy it's to keep this argument going every year so there's more air time for the league
Maybe it's more about inconsistent officiating by part time officials

Now do the thing where you tell me what percentage of Americans knows who Patrick Mahomes or Travis Kelce is vs Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford.

Nobody cares about market size. The money comes from the name value. The Chiefs have been an annual presence around the super bowl for years now. They're bigger on a more national stage than anybody on New York or LA.

You're not wrong
But size matters
The large tv markets drive the revenue bus for The NFL and any other business
I speak from first hand knowledge for many years

 

[ShamrockPride]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

Nobody is saying they "call it so they win".

It's an attempt to nudge a game in a direction when possible. If KC started playing like the Jags, well, the refs can't make up for that massive a deficiency.

Nobody is saying NFL is calling games, rather gentle attempts to steer it in a direction when possible.

c'mon ...let's be honest.....bottom line you are saying the exact same frickin thing.....nudging or gentle attempts to steer a game are the same as making calls so they win....

you are trying to sugar coat it.....both indicate the officials are not calling the game the way it is supposed to be called.....give me break...

if your gonna say something....be man or woman enough just to say it...

Steering a game vs. giving a direct order "this team will win the game", you're having a tough time with those concepts?

They're pretty different.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

Nobody is saying they "call it so they win".

It's an attempt to nudge a game in a direction when possible. If KC started playing like the Jags, well, the refs can't make up for that massive a deficiency.

Nobody is saying NFL is calling games, rather gentle attempts to steer it in a direction when possible.

c'mon ...let's be honest.....bottom line you are saying the exact same frickin thing.....nudging or gentle attempts to steer a game are the same as making calls so they win....

you are trying to sugar coat it.....both indicate the officials are not calling the game the way it is supposed to be called.....give me break...

if your gonna say something....be man or woman enough just to say it...

Steering a game vs. giving a direct order "this team will win the game", you're having a tough time with those concepts?

They're pretty different.

by saying "steering a game" you are saying they intentionally call it different then what they should because of some agenda.....if that is incorrect, please explain what "steering" a game means....I have never really heard that used in this context before....because to me it sounds like you are saying steering means they are intentionally influencing how things are called and what happens on the field because they are in a position that has some control....

 

[need2know]

Lost a lot of respect for Mahomes with that sideline pull up flop too. Wish they’d flag him for unsportsmanlike the way the NHL does. Pansy.

Call me a grumpy old man, but it’s to the point where it’s disrespectful to the game of football. He’s making a mockery of the rules and thumbing his nose at both his opponents and the refs.

I cant stand watching their games