**AFC Divisional Round - Texans at Chiefs**(-8.5, 42) 4:30 on ABC (1 Viewer)

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

from Joe.....'m not sure if you're serious and want to make sure I understand you. Are you seriously saying the officials have instruction from the NFL to help the Chiefs win a specific game?

from me.....the league employs around 120 officials give or take....how exactly does the league pass it down to the officials that "we want the Chiefs to win"....meeting in a dark alley.....super secret confidential yellow envelopes....burner phones....

 

[JohnnyU]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

from Joe.....'m not sure if you're serious and want to make sure I understand you. Are you seriously saying the officials have instruction from the NFL to help the Chiefs win a specific game?

from me.....the league employs around 120 officials give or take....how exactly does the league pass it down to the officials that "we want the Chiefs to win"....meeting in a dark alley.....super secret confidential yellow envelopes....burner phones....

I answered Joe with, “I think if you go back and read my posts I simply said, and I parasphrase, if not a conspiracy, why is it happening every week? Why is #74 allowed to commit a penality on every passing play? Either by lining up too far away from the LOS, or jumping early. If these things are happening every week, you can't play the NFL is difficult to judge card.”.

So, I did answer Joe.

 

[GregR]

The integrity of the game comes first. Always has.

It's not popular with some, but it's why there's zero tolerance for NFL employees gambling.

They (rightly so) put integrity at the very top priority.

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority. The only integrity that matters is the amount necessary to not hurt their finances. Yes gambling scandals would have a big financial impact so it's a big priority.

But that doesn't mean integrity of providing a fair enforcement of the rules goes any further than the point it might start to hit their balance sheet.

They didn't care about the integrity of enforcing illegal contact against receivers. Not until there was such backlash about the lack of rule enforcement in the high profile Patriots playoff mugging of the Colts receivers, that they realized they had to do something about it.

I don't think there's an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't mean the NFL might not turn a blind eye to abuses of the rules (edit to add) or just plain unintentional bias. Especially if it furthers a story or set of events that are to their financial benefit and there isn't enough backlash against it from the public.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Yes,The NFL,which is all about revenue,is conspiring to make sure the 34th ranked sports television market,Kansas City
Wins every year
Instead of the top three markets,New York,L.A. and Chicago
If there's a conspiracy it's to keep this argument going every year so there's more air time for the league
Maybe it's more about inconsistent officiating by part time officials

Now do the thing where you tell me what percentage of Americans knows who Patrick Mahomes or Travis Kelce is vs Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford.

Nobody cares about market size. The money comes from the name value. The Chiefs have been an annual presence around the super bowl for years now. They're bigger on a more national stage than anybody on New York or LA.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The integrity of the game comes first. Always has.

It's not popular with some, but it's why there's zero tolerance for NFL employees gambling.

They (rightly so) put integrity at the very top priority.

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority. The only integrity that matters is the amount necessary to not hurt their finances. Yes gambling scandals would have a big financial impact so it's a big priority.

But that doesn't mean integrity of providing a fair enforcement of the rules goes any further than the point it might start to hit their balance sheet.

They didn't care about the integrity of enforcing illegal contact against receivers. Not until there was such backlash about the lack of rule enforcement in the high profile Patriots playoff mugging of the Colts receivers, that they realized they had to do something about it.

I don't think there's an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't mean the NFL might not turn a blind eye to abuses of the rules. Especially if it furthers a story or set of events that are to their financial benefit and there isn't enough backlash against it from the public.

so you are saying "the league" (whoever that is)....or big Rog is telling the officials to turn a blind eye.....and if you answer is yes.....how do you thin that is communicated...?

 

[JohnnyU]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias? More of the Michael Jordan effect?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

from Joe.....'m not sure if you're serious and want to make sure I understand you. Are you seriously saying the officials have instruction from the NFL to help the Chiefs win a specific game?

from me.....the league employs around 120 officials give or take....how exactly does the league pass it down to the officials that "we want the Chiefs to win"....meeting in a dark alley.....super secret confidential yellow envelopes....burner phones....

I answered Joe with, “I think if you go back and read my posts I simply said, and I parasphrase, if not a conspiracy, why is it happening every week? Why is #74 allowed to commit a penality on every passing play? Either by lining up too far away from the LOS, or jumping early. If these things are happening every week, you can't play the NFL is difficult to judge card.”.

So, I did answer Joe.

so how about mine....?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

 

[JohnnyU]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

 

[IHEARTFF]

And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate

 

[GregR]

The integrity of the game comes first. Always has.

It's not popular with some, but it's why there's zero tolerance for NFL employees gambling.

They (rightly so) put integrity at the very top priority.

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority. The only integrity that matters is the amount necessary to not hurt their finances. Yes gambling scandals would have a big financial impact so it's a big priority.

But that doesn't mean integrity of providing a fair enforcement of the rules goes any further than the point it might start to hit their balance sheet.

They didn't care about the integrity of enforcing illegal contact against receivers. Not until there was such backlash about the lack of rule enforcement in the high profile Patriots playoff mugging of the Colts receivers, that they realized they had to do something about it.

I don't think there's an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't mean the NFL might not turn a blind eye to abuses of the rules. Especially if it furthers a story or set of events that are to their financial benefit and there isn't enough backlash against it from the public.

so you are saying "the league" (whoever that is)....or big Rog is telling the officials to turn a blind eye.....and if you answer is yes.....how do you thin that is communicated...?

No, you're the one saying that.

I'm saying when the officials put more emphasis on protecting Patrick Mahomes over protecting Gardner Minshew, the NFL doesn't have a very vested interest in correcting the issue to level the field.

 

[JohnnyU]

And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate

Yeah, that’s a go to when someone can’t debate

 

[IHEARTFF]

And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate

Yeah, that’s a go to when someone can’t debate

I’m just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake

 

[JohnnyU]

And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate

Yeah, that’s a go to when someone can’t debate

I’m just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake

Shake your booty

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

you said that before when confronted with the same question....yet you still come back and post the same **** after almost every chiefs game....your chiefs hate is admirable and at least you are consistent....but like always you have nothing worthwhile other then 120 of the best football officials on the planet have unconscious bias....lol

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The integrity of the game comes first. Always has.

It's not popular with some, but it's why there's zero tolerance for NFL employees gambling.

They (rightly so) put integrity at the very top priority.

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority. The only integrity that matters is the amount necessary to not hurt their finances. Yes gambling scandals would have a big financial impact so it's a big priority.

But that doesn't mean integrity of providing a fair enforcement of the rules goes any further than the point it might start to hit their balance sheet.

They didn't care about the integrity of enforcing illegal contact against receivers. Not until there was such backlash about the lack of rule enforcement in the high profile Patriots playoff mugging of the Colts receivers, that they realized they had to do something about it.

I don't think there's an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't mean the NFL might not turn a blind eye to abuses of the rules. Especially if it furthers a story or set of events that are to their financial benefit and there isn't enough backlash against it from the public.

so you are saying "the league" (whoever that is)....or big Rog is telling the officials to turn a blind eye.....and if you answer is yes.....how do you thin that is communicated...?

No, you're the one saying that.

I'm saying when the officials put more emphasis on protecting Patrick Mahomes over protecting Gardner Minshew, the NFL doesn't have a very vested interest in correcting the issue to level the field.

so the NFL is telling the officials to protect Mahomes more then Minshew.....?....how is that communicated...let me guess...it's not...it's just "unconscious bias"...

 

[JohnnyU]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

you said that before when confronted with the same question....yet you still come back and post the same **** after almost every chiefs game....our chiefs hate is admirable and at least you are consistent....but like always you have nothing worthwhile other then 120 of the best football officials on the planet have unconscious bias....lol

Explain #74 on EVERY passing play, EVERY week. I’ll hang up and listen.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

you said that before when confronted with the same question....yet you still come back and post the same **** after almost every chiefs game....our chiefs hate is admirable and at least you are consistent....but like always you have nothing worthwhile other then 120 of the best football officials on the planet have unconscious bias....lol

Explain #74 on EVERY passing play, EVERY week. I’ll hang up and listen.

I agree with crushed sprits assessment in post #716....

 

[ShamrockPride]

I only think the NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars because they started scripting outcomes. Not every game mind you, but the ones that secure storylines and produce the most interest... yeah, why wouldn't they.

That's exactly the right question to ask.

And the answer for me is the same as I weigh most questions: How does the upside compare to the downside?

In this case, the upside of cheating to get the outcomes you want is negligible compared to the nuclear fallout that would happen if they were to be found cheating.

Now with sports book betting legal, it's more imperative than ever to have a product with integrity. But it's been that way for many years. Since Shoeless Joe Jackson almost put major league baseball out of business.

Sure, Kansas City vs Detroit in a Super Bowl might have the most attention and drama of any matchup.

But it would be at best maybe 1% more interesting than Buffalo and Philadelphia. If that.

And the downside of risking the entire enterprise for a slightly better matchup just isn't feasible in my opinion.

Losing teams have complained about the fix being in for as long as teams have kept score.

Then please do your best to answer my quesiton in post #695. What are your thoughts on what Will Anderson said in post #697? What are your thoughts on the phantom roughing the passer calls in this game? What about the phantom PI on Schultz?

I think they're wrong. As I said, losers have whined about the officials forever.

So, your eyes told you those weren't bad calls? ALL OF THEM. If that's true, then there's nothing more I can say to you on the subject. You don't think #74 false starts repeatedly? Or at the very least lines up too far off the line giving him an advantage? The latter was called on Baltimore multiple times. That alone is a penalty on KC that doesn't get called. So Taylor is doing two things to get penalized. He's lining up too far from the LOS and he leaves early on the snap count. While he is the 4th most penalized player, he should be the #1 most penalized player. It is my belief that KC is counting on the refs not calling this all the time and at the end of the day it is to their advantage. If he didn't play for the Chiefs he would be out of the league.

I would ask Joe the question differently. Everyone in America sees how biased the calls are in favor of Mahomes.

So Joe — what is your theory on what is happening with the multi-year consistency of bad calls?

The thing is people don't want to bother debating in nuance. There is a ton of nuance to saying the NFL is "scripted".

Scripted doesn't mean everybody on the field is an actor. Football is still performed under the veil of sport. The refs can only carry a team so far.

If KC is playing like a college level team, the refs can't cover that. But as KC is great team even without ref help, a conveniently timed penalty to nudge the contest is beyond easy to do. It's a virtually impossible thing to prove that a ref was "conspiring" when their job is almost entirely based on calling out subjective penalties. You really can't prove somebody did or didn't see something, or "from where I was positioned I saw..." etc etc.

That's why when things like this happen, they make waves. I'm sure some guys here probably just think he was doing his best to get the call right though.

 

[JohnnyU]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

you said that before when confronted with the same question....yet you still come back and post the same **** after almost every chiefs game....our chiefs hate is admirable and at least you are consistent....but like always you have nothing worthwhile other then 120 of the best football officials on the planet have unconscious bias....lol

Explain #74 on EVERY passing play, EVERY week. I’ll hang up and listen.

I agree with crushed sprits assessment in post #716....

Oh, that makes it all OK

 

[GregR]

The integrity of the game comes first. Always has.

It's not popular with some, but it's why there's zero tolerance for NFL employees gambling.

They (rightly so) put integrity at the very top priority.

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority. The only integrity that matters is the amount necessary to not hurt their finances. Yes gambling scandals would have a big financial impact so it's a big priority.

But that doesn't mean integrity of providing a fair enforcement of the rules goes any further than the point it might start to hit their balance sheet.

They didn't care about the integrity of enforcing illegal contact against receivers. Not until there was such backlash about the lack of rule enforcement in the high profile Patriots playoff mugging of the Colts receivers, that they realized they had to do something about it.

I don't think there's an intentional conspiracy. But that doesn't mean the NFL might not turn a blind eye to abuses of the rules. Especially if it furthers a story or set of events that are to their financial benefit and there isn't enough backlash against it from the public.

so you are saying "the league" (whoever that is)....or big Rog is telling the officials to turn a blind eye.....and if you answer is yes.....how do you thin that is communicated...?

No, you're the one saying that.

I'm saying when the officials put more emphasis on protecting Patrick Mahomes over protecting Gardner Minshew, the NFL doesn't have a very vested interest in correcting the issue to level the field.

so the NFL is telling the officials to protect Mahomes more then Minshew.....?....how is that communicated...let me guess...it's not...it's just "unconscious bias"...

Look a page up and you'll see people arguing your side saying how Messi, Ronaldo, Gretzky, Jordan, get calls in their favor.

So either you are the one deciding that every league is instructing officials to favor them. OR... there's something else at play. LIke that human nature is that people side with superstars in some fashion even if unintentional.

You keep invoking the former, which I've stated a few times I'm not. I'm invoking the latter.

I'm saying the bias happens, and I agree it happens in many sports if not all. And apparently the leagues don't care about it enough to level the playing field. Or else it wouldn't keep happening.

The question isn't "is the league sending memos saying to favor Mahomes". The question is "why isn't the league sending more memos pointing out the inequality and correcting it".

 

[The_Man]

Star players in any sport always get a little deference. Josh Allen gets the same. Brady got it. It's life.

Lamar Jackson demonstrably does not get it. I don’t think Jalen Hurts gets it.

Just saying Jalen has taken 2 very borderline hits today, I don’t think either was a flag and yet both were at least as bad as the plays where Mahomes drew flags

 

[Stinkin Ref]

you haven't answered the questions we have asked you either....

What question was that? I answered Joe’s question when he mistakenly said I was calling it a conspiracy. I simply asked about #74.

you said this....

"There is obvious favoritism towards the Chiefs."

"This is not something made up, it's real every week."

so simply asking.....how is this communicated to 120 officials....I'll hang up and listen

Favoritism doesn’t have to mean conspiracy. Is it an unconscious bias?

ohhh ok....here we go with the unconscious bias BS again...why is that the only go to if this is so frickinn obvious.....120 guys all have unconscious bias...?

are you sure you aren't a Raiders fan....you know the whole league hates Al Davis and the black uniform thing....lol....give me break...

Now you’re being ridiculous. I’ll bow out now,

you said that before when confronted with the same question....yet you still come back and post the same **** after almost every chiefs game....our chiefs hate is admirable and at least you are consistent....but like always you have nothing worthwhile other then 120 of the best football officials on the planet have unconscious bias....lol

Explain #74 on EVERY passing play, EVERY week. I’ll hang up and listen.

I agree with crushed sprits assessment in post #716....

Oh, that makes it all OK

didn't say that....just thought it was a pretty fair assessment...

 

[JohnnyU]

Star players in any sport always get a little deference. Josh Allen gets the same. Brady got it. It's life.

Lamar Jackson demonstrably does not get it. I don’t think Jalen Hurts gets it.

Just saying Jalen has taken 2 very borderline hits today, I don’t think either was a flag and yet both were at least as bad as the plays where Mahomes drew flags

Be careful, that doesn’t fit the narrative.

 

[JohnnyU]

The call prompted the Associated Press's Josh Dubow to tweet out a crazy stat about the Chiefs and them getting roughing-the-passer calls.

Dubow tweeted that since the start of the 2022 postseason, opposing teams that play the Chiefs have been called for five combined roughing the passer calls in the playoffs while the Chiefs haven't been called for any.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

The call prompted the Associated Press's Josh Dubow to tweet out a crazy stat about the Chiefs and them getting roughing-the-passer calls.

Dubow tweeted that since the start of the 2022 postseason, opposing teams that play the Chiefs have been called for five combined roughing the passer calls in the playoffs while the Chiefs haven't been called for any.

its no secret "getting after Mahomes" and trying to make him feel uncomfortable is probably part of every game plan his opponents have...so that stat isn't really surprising...

and it's convenient to pick and choose time frames that fit a narrative....I remember the Chiefs losing a playoff game to the Patriots in part due to a very minor roughing call on Brady....

 

[JohnnyU]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

fair enough....

 

[JohnnyU]

The call prompted the Associated Press's Josh Dubow to tweet out a crazy stat about the Chiefs and them getting roughing-the-passer calls.

Dubow tweeted that since the start of the 2022 postseason, opposing teams that play the Chiefs have been called for five combined roughing the passer calls in the playoffs while the Chiefs haven't been called for any.

its no secret "getting after Mahomes" and trying to make him feel uncomfortable is probably part of every game plan his opponents have...so that stat isn't really surprising...

and it's convenient to pick and choose time frames that fit a narrative....I remember the Chiefs losing a playoff game to the Patriots in part due to a very minor roughing call on Brady....

Different era, different biases

 

[The_Man]

Star players in any sport always get a little deference. Josh Allen gets the same. Brady got it. It's life.

Lamar Jackson demonstrably does not get it. I don’t think Jalen Hurts gets it.

Just saying Jalen has taken 2 very borderline hits today, I don’t think either was a flag and yet both were at least as bad as the plays where Mahomes drew flags

Hip drop on Jalen?

btw, I don’t think the games are fixed or the refs directed by the NFL. But I absolutely believe there are different enforcement codes for Star QBs and that players perceived as “running QBs” get significantly fewer calls

 

[Stinkin Ref]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

I think a big part of what is "there" is most definitely Chiefs fatigue....they are in so many commercials, they are seemingly in your face constantly.... oh...and they are also really good....have won a lot recently...."anybody but the Chiefs please".....Tay Tay.....lot of primetime games, etc......so most people outside of Chiefs kingdom when watching the game are hoping they lose....so any little thing that "goes their way" or something gets blown up....magnified....they don't need the help....blah blah blah....teams in most games are on one side or another of 50/50 or questionable calls....but if it's the Chiefs on the good side, there has to be "something behind it"....

 

[JohnnyU]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

I think a big part of what is "there" is most definitely Chiefs fatigue....they are in so many commercials, they are seemingly in your face constantly.... oh...and they are also really good....have won a lot recently...."anybody but the Chiefs please".....Tay Tay.....lot of primetime games, etc......so most people outside of Chiefs kingdom when watching the game are hoping they lose....so any little thing that "goes their way" or something gets blown up....magnified....they don't need the help....blah blah blah....teams in most games are on one side or another of 50/50 or questionable calls....but if it's the Chiefs on the good side, there has to be "something behind it"....

I believe you’re making light on it and completely disregarding people’s concerns of a possible bias, even if unintentional. A lot of people see what happens weekly.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

 

[JohnnyU]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

I think a big part of what is "there" is most definitely Chiefs fatigue....they are in so many commercials, they are seemingly in your face constantly.... oh...and they are also really good....have won a lot recently...."anybody but the Chiefs please".....Tay Tay.....lot of primetime games, etc......so most people outside of Chiefs kingdom when watching the game are hoping they lose....so any little thing that "goes their way" or something gets blown up....magnified....they don't need the help....blah blah blah....teams in most games are on one side or another of 50/50 or questionable calls....but if it's the Chiefs on the good side, there has to be "something behind it"....

I believe you’re making light on it and completely disregarding people’s concerns of a possible bias, even if unintentional. A lot of people see what happens weekly.

people don't want to admit they have Chiefs fatigue because it doesn't fit their narrative ......and it's not a very becoming admission.....

 

[JohnnyU]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

I think a big part of what is "there" is most definitely Chiefs fatigue....they are in so many commercials, they are seemingly in your face constantly.... oh...and they are also really good....have won a lot recently...."anybody but the Chiefs please".....Tay Tay.....lot of primetime games, etc......so most people outside of Chiefs kingdom when watching the game are hoping they lose....so any little thing that "goes their way" or something gets blown up....magnified....they don't need the help....blah blah blah....teams in most games are on one side or another of 50/50 or questionable calls....but if it's the Chiefs on the good side, there has to be "something behind it"....

I believe you’re making light on it and completely disregarding people’s concerns of a possible bias, even if unintentional. A lot of people see what happens weekly.

people don't want to admit they have Chiefs fatigue because it doesn't fit their narrative ......and it's not a very becoming admission.....

I think you’re off base to some degree, but on base in that people do hate a winner all the time. Where you are wrong is automatically assuming everyone causes those feelings to make them think the Chiefs are being favored by the refs. That is not respecting other opinions. We have eyes.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

unconscious bias is what they always fall back on and the only thing that fits the narrative at the end of the day for the conspiracy theorists because they don't have any substantiated proof of anything else...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

what it comes down to and why I am so passionate and can't stand the completely unsubstantiated claims of conspiracy....(chiefs or any team for that matter) is because as officials the biggest characteristic they have is their integrity.....and people just slam and dismiss that like it is nothing when they basically say the refs are cheating....you don't last in this business if that isn't your most essential and foundational tool.....these guys have worked their butts off to get to where they are at.....the last thing they are going to do is put themselves in a position to ruin everything....I get it...the one bad apple dude in the NBA makes everybody think it happens all the time in every game in every sport......but it doesn't....and "the league" sure as hell isn't going to jeopardize things with even the slightest indication of impropriety.....people need to come up with something new besides the refs helped them thing.....that is so tired and worn out....and really at it's core nothing but sour grapes...

I also happen to be a chiefs fan.....but I would have the same feelings if I was a Browns fan....

So you obviously don’t think the refs are favoring the Chiefs, even if it is unconscious bias. OK, but just because you believe that doesn’t make it so. I don’t think there is a conspiracy, but there is something there, whether international or not.

I think a big part of what is "there" is most definitely Chiefs fatigue....they are in so many commercials, they are seemingly in your face constantly.... oh...and they are also really good....have won a lot recently...."anybody but the Chiefs please".....Tay Tay.....lot of primetime games, etc......so most people outside of Chiefs kingdom when watching the game are hoping they lose....so any little thing that "goes their way" or something gets blown up....magnified....they don't need the help....blah blah blah....teams in most games are on one side or another of 50/50 or questionable calls....but if it's the Chiefs on the good side, there has to be "something behind it"....

I believe you’re making light on it and completely disregarding people’s concerns of a possible bias, even if unintentional. A lot of people see what happens weekly.

people don't want to admit they have Chiefs fatigue because it doesn't fit their narrative ......and it's not a very becoming admission.....

I think you’re off base to some degree, but on base in that people do hate a winner all the time. Where you are wrong is automatically assuming everyone causes those feelings to make them think the Chiefs are being favored by the refs. That is not respecting other opinions. We have eyes.

I think their opinions are based on their unconscious bias against the Chiefs....

 

[JohnnyU]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

unconscious bias is what they always fall back on and the only thing that fits the narrative at the end of the day for the conspiracy theorists because they don't have any substantiated proof of anything else...

I don’t think you know what conspiracy or unconscious bias means. Because if you did you wouldn’t use the words unconscious bias to support conspiracy. They can’t be used together.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

unconscious bias is what they always fall back on and the only thing that fits the narrative at the end of the day for the conspiracy theorists because they don't have any substantiated proof of anything else...

I don’t think you know what conspiracy means. Because if you did you wouldn’t use the words unconscious bias to support conspiracy. They can’t be used together.

my bad....not sure what I thinking.....or maybe I was thinking but I was unconscious....

 

[Joe Bryant]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

 

[JohnnyU]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 commit a penalty on every passing play? Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

 

[Joe Bryant]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

 

[JohnnyU]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

I don’t either, but something is going on with #74 and no one can really explain why. Plus the roughing calls in their favor consistently raises eyebrows.

 

[ShamrockPride]

Disagree Joe. They put the financial well being of the game as the top priority.

That's not really a disagreement. I feel the same. The way to keep financial well being at the top is to have complete integrity. Without integrity, it's financial ruin for them. Especially now with all the sports betting.

I think in no way shape or form does any slight positive they might get in cheating to put the teams they prefer to win outweighs the catastrophic downside if they were to be caught cheating doing it.

Have you commented on the notion of unconscious bias? Or some kind of bias I haven’t heard of?

Not sure. Was there a specific question for me?

Yes, do you think the ref have an unconscious bias or another type of bias for the Chiefs? If not, why do they let #74 to commit a penalty on every passing play. Whether that is lining too far off the LOS for an advantage, or false starting and not calling it?

I don't know enough about the refs to assume anything about their bias. I don't know them at all. Sorry.

The only thing I've said I feel like I do have a strong opinion here is the league is not instructing the officials to cheat and call the game so Kansas City wins.

The downside of that is catastrophic. When the upside is minimal.

Nobody is saying they "call it so they win".

It's an attempt to nudge a game in a direction when possible. If KC started playing like the Jags, well, the refs can't make up for that massive a deficiency.

Nobody is saying NFL is calling games, rather gentle attempts to steer it in a direction when possible.

 

[ChiefD]

I don’t either, but something is going on with #74 and no one can really explain why.

People have posted explanations upthread about this already and you choose to either ignore it or are obsessed about it for some reason.

He pushes the limit on the rule? Yes. We all know that. Other offensive linemen also do it. All of this has been explained to you already.

What more do you want here? A letter from Roger Goodell admitting the NFL is helping the Chiefs? Come on man, this is getting tired now.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I only think the NFL is worth billions and billions of dollars because they started scripting outcomes. Not every game mind you, but the ones that secure storylines and produce the most interest... yeah, why wouldn't they.

That's exactly the right question to ask.

And the answer for me is the same as I weigh most questions: How does the upside compare to the downside?

In this case, the upside of cheating to get the outcomes you want is negligible compared to the nuclear fallout that would happen if they were to be found cheating.

Now with sports book betting legal, it's more imperative than ever to have a product with integrity. But it's been that way for many years. Since Shoeless Joe Jackson almost put major league baseball out of business.

Sure, Kansas City vs Detroit in a Super Bowl might have the most attention and drama of any matchup.

But it would be at best maybe 1% more interesting than Buffalo and Philadelphia. If that.

And the downside of risking the entire enterprise for a slightly better matchup just isn't feasible in my opinion.

Losing teams have complained about the fix being in for as long as teams have kept score.

Then please do your best to answer my quesiton in post #695. What are your thoughts on what Will Anderson said in post #697? What are your thoughts on the phantom roughing the passer calls in this game? What about the phantom PI on Schultz?

I think they're wrong. As I said, losers have whined about the officials forever.

So, your eyes told you those weren't bad calls? ALL OF THEM. If that's true, then there's nothing more I can say to you on the subject. You don't think #74 false starts repeatedly? Or at the very least lines up too far off the line giving him an advantage? The latter was called on Baltimore multiple times. That alone is a penalty on KC that doesn't get called. So Taylor is doing two things to get penalized. He's lining up too far from the LOS and he leaves early on the snap count. While he is the 4th most penalized player, he should be the #1 most penalized player. It is my belief that KC is counting on the refs not calling this all the time and at the end of the day it is to their advantage. If he didn't play for the Chiefs he would be out of the league.

I would ask Joe the question differently. Everyone in America sees how biased the calls are in favor of Mahomes.

So Joe — what is your theory on what is happening with the multi-year consistency of bad calls?

Bump for Joe

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I don’t either, but something is going on with #74 and no one can really explain why.

People have posted explanations upthread about this already and you choose to either ignore it or are obsessed about it for some reason.

He pushes the limit on the rule? Yes. We all know that. Other offensive linemen also do it. All of this has been explained to you already.

What more do you want here? A letter from Roger Goodell admitting the NFL is helping the Chiefs? Come on man, this is getting tired now.

This. As Chief notes, #74 has already been addressed in here.

Why don’t other teams do this if it is legal? Serious question.