***AFCC - Buffalo 15-4 at Kansas City 16-2*** (-2, 47.5) 6:30 (1 Viewer)

[Stinkin Ref]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

 

[Steelers4Life]

you wanted the official NOT to throw the flag even though the player who drew the flag said he deserved the flag

IMO, you are making way more out of this "admission" than it deserves. I just outlined that the refs hadn't thrown a flag for an in-play infraction since the first quarter. If we surveyed the other players on the field that played significant snaps and asked them if they had committed a penalty at some point in the game, they would have said yes and could have pointed out which plays without even thinking much about it. But yet none of those plays were penalized . . . as evidenced by the clear lack of penalties called.

I don't have the time or the access to tape of the game to go and comb through the video to find what should have been penalties on other plays but weren't. My point still stands that even without that visual evidence, the sheer fact that NO PENALTIES were called would reflect that the refs were focused on NOT throwing flags that day. I'm sorry . . . there is no way in a normal game that they could go 60+ minutes of game action without calling a single penalty other than illegal procedure or offsides. That just doesn't happen. Then to call what amounted to a ticky-tack foul in the final 2 minutes of overtime seemed out of place. IMO, at that point in the game, a defender would have had to have mauled a receiver or dragged him to get a call in that situation where it was obvious that the defender was beaten and trying not to give up a TD. But that's just my value judgement of how late game situations should be called.

But we live in an imperfect world. Receivers get grabbed coming off the LOS on practically every play. If the ref on that particular play felt that that DB's actions were more egregious than the actions and contact of all the other DBs on 65 other passing plays, so be it. I still look at it that play and think that James Bradbury got ticketed for doing 56 mph in a 55-mph zone when there were other cars on that day that went zipping by at 85 or 90.

It's laughable to think almost no penalties were committed in that game. They were, they just weren't called... until one of the most impactful moments of the game.

If calls are made consistently, no one complains no matter which side they're on. It's when they aren't consistent that there's a problem, and in Chiefs games in particular, there seems to be a consistent lack of consistency in the Chiefs favor on judgement calls.

bolded...again I will ask...what were these plays that you are referring too....?

If you're asking me for a specific play, nope, don't have it.

If you want to believe that almost no penalties were committed during play for almost 4 quarters when neither team had a track record like that, and then finally one was committed coincidentally on a moment that big, you can. It just goes against any semblance of logic to believe that.

logic....so we/everybody/you and anarchy when discussing something are allowed to just throw out statements/opinions as fact just because that's the "way we feel it happened"........not even one play to back it up....we are just supposed to take you and anarchy for your word.....got it....my bad....

As has been stated, you're free to believe that for 4 quarters, defensive backs almost never clutched or grabbed recievers, linebacker never held a TE for a second coming out of their break, and offensive linemen played every snap clean against two pretty good pass rushes. And then, at a key moment late in the game, THEN a penalty was committed. If that makes sense to you, enjoy it.

That makes much more sense than the idea that the refs let them play without getting involved for 95% of the game and then changed their approach at a key moment late in the game that just happened to benefit the Chiefs in a fairly substantial way.

No one has to take anyone's word for anything.

so you are saying the ref that threw the flag cheated for the chiefs...?

No. I'm not. At least I'd hope he wasn't doing it with those kind of motives. I think it's just another questionable call at a pivotal point in a game that happened to go in the Chiefs favor. They just about always do, just like all of the calls and non-calls last week. Lots of examples, but none of them went in the Bills' favor.

If you watch the holding play from the end of their last Super Bowl matchup, you'll see a ticky tack half-grab that is a penalty by the letter of the law. It happens on damn near every play, and like offensive holding, it's often not blatant but a discretionary call. The problem isn't that that call itself was wrong. Its that up until that moment, they hadn't called the game that way at all and the players had expectations of what was and wasn't being allowed that night. In that moment, the ref changed how they had called the entire game before it... at a time that had a huge impact on a failed 3rd down attempt.

I'll ask this of the third person to say this.....do have examples of similar plays that went "uncalled" or are you just assuming there "had to be" in order to support your position....

You've asked this before and the answer has been listed by several people, including me. You must intentionally be trying to ignore it.

I do not have the tape of the game nor do I have the desire to go back and rewatch the game. Yes, there had to be penalties and anyone who's watched football for any length of time knows that or is just choosing not to acknowledge it. It's not reasonable to think that teams that historically combined for as many post-snap penalties as KC and Philly did (thanks to Anarchy for pointing that out) would all of a sudden go almost a full game without them and then they did on such a consequential play late in the game.

The refs sent a clear message to the players for the entire game that they weren't going to call ticky tack penalties and the players were allowed to just play. And then, at that key moment, a call was made that surely could've been made a bunch of times of the course of the game but wasn't. Not on linebackers, not on defensive backs, and not on offensive linemen. It was a penalty. A ticky tack one. And if the refs had treated it consistently, they would've let it pass like they had for basically the entire game leading up to that point.

 

[Steelers4Life]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

Correct.

Leaving the game up to a spot by the referees when facing Kansas City is going to leave you short 100% of the time.

Regardless, the side judge who ACTUALLY COULD SEE THE BALL was running onto the field to spot the ball with a first down. The side just who couldn't see the ball is the one who marked it short. It's not exactly surprising when looking at how the close calls went as a whole in that game and previous Chiefs games.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Getting back to the PHI / KC SB year, in 19 games prior to the SB, the Chiefs averaged 4.63 post-snap penalties. Their opponents averaged 4.89 post-snap penalties. In 19 previous games, the Eagles averaged 3.68 post-snap penalties. Their opponents averaged 4.11 penalties.

That means in KC's games, there were an average of 9.52 post-snap penalties per game. For PHI, that averaged out to 7.79 post-snap penalties per game. Since the SB went to a full OT, that means the expected number of penalties (using the averages) would have been a combined 11.9 post-snap penalties in KC games and a combined 9.7 post-snap penalties in PHI games (the average per game total multiplied by 1.25). Similarly, the expected number of post-snap penalties would have been 5.79 post-snap penalties for KC and 4.60 post-snap penalties for PHI.

In the SB, KC was called for 0 post-snap penalties, while PHI was called for 3 post-snap penalties. Given the expected total per game averages adjusted for OT, 3 total post-snap penalties represented 25% of the norm for KC games and 30% of the norm for PHI games.

There were 162 total plays / snaps between the two teams including all offensive plays, special teams plays, and plays that were negated by penalties. Again, I am not suggesting the fix was in or there was a conspiracy to help the Chiefs, but I find it odd that a team could go 162 snaps in a row and not commit a live action penalty. I don't need to go hunt for individual plays to think that outcome seems very atypical. Not suggesting that the moon landings were faked, Elvis is still alive, or that Paul McCartney died in 1966 and was replaced with a look alike. Just presenting my opinion that the officiating went against the usual outcomes compared to the other games those two teams played that season.

or since we haven't seen anything similar presented that went uncalled ....maybe it's possible KC played a nearly flawless game that particular day.....but they did give up 35 so they weren't totally flawless...

 

[Stinkin Ref]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

Correct.

Leaving the game up to a spot by the referees when facing Kansas City is going to leave you short 100% of the time.

Regardless, the side judge who ACTUALLY COULD SEE THE BALL was running onto the field to spot the ball with a first down. The side just who couldn't see the ball is the one who marked it short. It's not exactly surprising when looking at how the close calls went as a whole in that game and previous Chiefs games.

doesn't matter which side actually.....it's almost a total guessing game from either side and easy to see how two guys might have different spots....luckily the play was reviewed and determined that the spot was correct....

 

[Anarchy99]

doesn't matter which side actually.....it's almost a total guessing game from either side and easy to see how two guys might have different spots....luckily the play was reviewed and determined that the spot was correct....

I believe the proper phraseology was that there was no conclusive evidence to overturn the call on the field . . . meaning the call on the field stood. IMO, if they called it the other way on the field (ie, said it was a first down), the video review would have determined the same thing . . . that there wasn't anything conclusive to overrule the call on the field. All that means is they had to side with the call on the field . . . that doesn't necessarily mean that it was correct. Again, this has nothing to do with what teams were involved, and I am not suggesting there was any favoritism with the refs.

 

[Steelers4Life]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

Correct.

Leaving the game up to a spot by the referees when facing Kansas City is going to leave you short 100% of the time.

Regardless, the side judge who ACTUALLY COULD SEE THE BALL was running onto the field to spot the ball with a first down. The side just who couldn't see the ball is the one who marked it short. It's not exactly surprising when looking at how the close calls went as a whole in that game and previous Chiefs games.

doesn't matter which side actually.....it's almost a total guessing game from either side and easy to see how two guys might have different spots....luckily the play was reviewed and determined that the spot was correct....

It does matter because one person could see where the ball was and one couldn't, and the review was going to leave it however it was called on the field. The review didn't determine that the call was correct. The review determined that there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it and it let the play stand.

But there are multiple angles that do show the ball further forward than where it was spotted. There's NO way they were going to reverse it.

In the end, it was a close call. And when there are close, consequential calls to be made, they always go in the Chief's favor. It's clearly part of the game at this point.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

Correct.

Leaving the game up to a spot by the referees when facing Kansas City is going to leave you short 100% of the time.

Regardless, the side judge who ACTUALLY COULD SEE THE BALL was running onto the field to spot the ball with a first down. The side just who couldn't see the ball is the one who marked it short. It's not exactly surprising when looking at how the close calls went as a whole in that game and previous Chiefs games.

doesn't matter which side actually.....it's almost a total guessing game from either side and easy to see how two guys might have different spots....luckily the play was reviewed and determined that the spot was correct....

It does matter because one person could see where the ball was and one couldn't, and the review was going to leave it however it was called on the field. The review didn't determine that the call was correct. The review determined that there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it and it let the play stand.

But there are multiple angles that do show the ball further forward than where it was spotted. There's NO way they were going to reverse it.

In the end, it was a close call. And when there are close, consequential calls to be made, they always go in the Chief's favor. It's clearly part of the game at this point.

if you actually take a look ....the ref coming down from the top of your screen (that may have marked him a little more forward) has his viewed blocked by Chris Jones as Jones is standing directly in the way.....the ref actually has to dodge/move around him as he closes in.....the guy at the bottom of the screen whose spot they appear to have gone with had him short...and actually the guy at the bottom would have been the guy to the "left" which is where Josh always goes....so he initially probably had the best look .....either way there is nothing more you can do but review the play....they did.....for those saying there are other multiple angles showing the ball further....maybe should contact the NFL and ask why they didn't have access to those angles if it was so obvious...

 

[Cowboysfan8]

and actually the guy at the bottom would have been the guy to the "left" which is where Josh always goes....so he initially probably had the best look

Bottom guy had Josh’s back to him. How’d he see the ball ?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

and actually the guy at the bottom would have been the guy to the "left" which is where Josh always goes....so he initially probably had the best look

Bottom guy had Josh’s back to him. How’d he see the ball ?

....Josh went left immediately after the snap....and that's the direction of the ref at the bottom of the screen....

I have no idea what either one of the sideline guys saw or how great their look was....like I said numerous times it's really not an exact science and a guessing game most of the time...sounds like replay took a look and determined where it was at was where it needed to be as there wasn't enough clear evidence to say the spot was totally wrong....BUF didn't make it a no doubter so that's on them...same play run by the other 31 teams ends in the same result as there was not enough evidence to change the spot even with "other angles"....

this may not mean much to many of you, but in (CO) high school we work 5 man crews and the umpire is still lined behind the defensive line.....I worked as a sideline official most of my career...often on goal line plays the umpire actually had the best look at forward progress and if the ball got across the line...he would often give us a signal (quick thumbs up) if he thought he got in....obviously he wouldn't have the best look at when the runner was down, etc.....so the call would ultimately fall on us sideline guys to signal....but many times (with much smaller players) it was still tough for us to see through the pile of players...

 

[FantasyGuru24]

They lost .. Get over it. Plenty of calls went against KC .. The moment was too big for Josh from the opening drive .. He looked nervous and not ready for the bright lights. He had the ball in his hands with 3 min down 3 to make something happen and he couldn’t .. This game would have been a blow out if the Bills didn’t get a favorable bounce on every fumble and if the Chiefs didn’t fumble the exchange between Mahomes and Pacheco when they were driving down the field to score. The Chiefs are in a different class with the Bills .. We’ll see how they stack up against the Eagles but they clearly have the Bills number.

 

[Steelers4Life]

and actually the guy at the bottom would have been the guy to the "left" which is where Josh always goes....so he initially probably had the best look

Bottom guy had Josh’s back to him. How’d he see the ball ?

He didn't. That's the point. And he overrode the guy who Josh Allen was actually facing with the ball who was coming to spot a first down. Chris Jones wasn't blocking that line judge's view, he was blocking the camera's view.

The Chiefs get damn near every close, meaningful call. It's just the way it is. The Bills may or may not have won the game if a few of the close ones actually went in their favor, but none did.

There's actually a series of clips out there where on multiple occasions, Bills players were shorted a yard or two on bad placements that were the difference between 1st and 10 and 2nd or 3rd and 1's in ADDITION to the questionable mark on Kincaid that everyone talks about. The others didn't kill drives, but the spots were absolutely questionable. Just didn't notice them during the game.

It'll be interesting to see what calls are made and when in the Super Bowl.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

He didn't. That's the point. And he overrode the guy who Josh Allen was actually facing with the ball who was coming to spot a first down.

Yeah, I know. That’s why I brought it up.
My wife and I were talking about it during the review. It was pretty bad

 

[Alex P Keaton]

According to pro football reference that one (or two really) first down call shifted KCs win probability from 40% to 60% at the time the call was made.

It definitely didn’t decide the game.

We often try to distill games down to one moment or one reason why a team won, then someone else can jump in with an argument - well Kincaid should have caught that pass as an example.

The reality is, no one play decides any game. But as the game progresses win probability starts to come into focus and an incorrect (or bias) call moved win probability 20% in favour of one team. To me that is something worth correcting.

I think at that type of "tipping point" in a game where the percentages can swing that much based on the result of that paly..... if you are going to run a play that everybody in the stadium knows is coming.....and it hadn't really been as successful early in the game as you had hoped.....and you kept running it to the exact same side (left)....and even the announcers said KC told them before the game that they know he always go left....you better be able to execute it well enough to leave no doubt on the spot.....

Correct.

Leaving the game up to a spot by the referees when facing Kansas City is going to leave you short 100% of the time.

Regardless, the side judge who ACTUALLY COULD SEE THE BALL was running onto the field to spot the ball with a first down. The side just who couldn't see the ball is the one who marked it short. It's not exactly surprising when looking at how the close calls went as a whole in that game and previous Chiefs games.

doesn't matter which side actually.....it's almost a total guessing game from either side and easy to see how two guys might have different spots....luckily the play was reviewed and determined that the spot was correct....

Hahahahaha gotta “protect the shield.” So obviously the wrong call for anyone who has 20/20 vision.

 

[The Duff Man]

Now I see why Refs are incompetent. They spend their time fishing.

 

[JohnnyU]

Now I see why Refs are incompetent. They spend their time fishing.

It was this big ………………………………………………………………….……………………………..
They can’t even keep from cheating in fishing.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

 

[IHEARTFF]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

So is that a no?

 

[Steelers4Life]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

So is that a no?

Of course not lol. Because we would then have to point all of Lewan's false starts last week and all year as opposed to one play you think was a false start on Buffalo for doing the same thing.

And this blatant face mask? Sorry, haven't seen it, didn't see it in the game, but happy to look if you have some kind of video of it.

But, everyone saw the catch where the ball hit the ground before anyone had control. Everyone saw Kincaid likely get the first down followed by Allen getting the first down with neither one called. Everyone saw Chris Jones lined up offsides multiple times. Everyone saw multiple plays that could've been called holding or blocks in the back on the punt return. And there's video out there of a bunch of instances where the Bills got cheated out of first downs on blatantly bad spots when even the announcers said it was a first down and had to backtrack when the ref moved the ball back. Did any one play give the Chiefs the game? Of course not. But cumulatively, they had a big impact.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Refs missed this face mask

x.com

x.com

This should have taken a long td off the board for the Bills

x.com

x.com

 

[Steelers4Life]

Refs missed this face mask

x.com

x.com

This should have taken a long td off the board for the Bills

x.com

x.com

The second one was not a false start. The Chiefs right tackle does that on every pass play and it's been well documented as to why it's not called. Of course, Id have been happy if they had called that a false start all year. Looks like one to me and it would've been called a hundred times on the Chiefs. Funny how it should only be a penalty when a Bills player does it?

The first one could've been called, also could've been a 5 harder too. Seen worse grabs than that not flagged.

But at damn near every key moment in the game, every consequential call went against the Bills. The idea that these two plays are all you can come up with - and one clearly wasn't a penalty - compared to everything else out there pretty much shows that.

Chiefs fans should just enjoy getting the calls. A win is a win is a win.

 

[JohnnyU]

Refs missed this face mask

x.com

x.com

This should have taken a long td off the board for the Bills

x.com

x.com

The second one was not a false start. The Chiefs right tackle does that on every pass play and it's been well documented as to why it's not called. Of course, Id have been happy if they had called that a false start all year. Looks like one to me and it would've been called a hundred times on the Chiefs. Funny how it should only be a penalty when a Bills player does it?

The first one could've been called, also could've been a 5 harder too. Seen worse grabs than that not flagged.

But at damn near every key moment in the game, every consequential call went against the Bills. The idea that these two plays are all you can come up with - and one clearly wasn't a penalty - compared to everything else out there pretty much shows that.

Chiefs fans should just enjoy getting the calls. A win is a win is a win.

Yep, #74 /thread

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

So is that a no?

Of course not lol. Because we would then have to point all of Lewan's false starts last week and all year as opposed to one play you think was a false start on Buffalo for doing the same thing.

And this blatant face mask? Sorry, haven't seen it, didn't see it in the game, but happy to look if you have some kind of video of it.

But, everyone saw the catch where the ball hit the ground before anyone had control. (wrong....by rule the ball is allowed to hit the ground as long as it doesn't move....there was dual possession which then defers to the offense, and Worthy appeared to be "more" in control at the end of the play anyway....if the ball had moved, it would have been incomplete...they said as much) Everyone saw Kincaid likely get the first down followed by Allen getting the first down with neither one called. (wrong neither play made it so it was clear) Everyone saw Chris Jones lined up offsides multiple times. (not sure what plays these were, I'd lke to see them, waere they tuch push plays where basically everybody has their helmet actually in the neutral zone, I don't remember these specifically) Everyone saw multiple plays that could've been called holding or blocks in the back on the punt return. (don't remember hearing much about these, they do get missed a lot in many games) And there's video out there of a bunch of instances where the Bills got cheated out of first downs on blatantly bad spots when even the announcers said it was a first down and had to backtrack when the ref moved the ball back. (think you are just repeating same stuff from the above here, what were the others) Did any one play give the Chiefs the game? Of course not. But cumulatively, they had a big impact.

commented above in bolded....we get it....chiefs have won like how many division titles in a row....have been in the playoffs and the AFC championship every year since Mahomes became a starter.....people are jealous of their success....we get that's what it is at this point....cause man they ain't that good and can't have that kind of sustained success without it being because of some outside factor...whatever makes you feel better....it's ok to admit your jealous, it's a natural emotion...

 

[JohnnyU]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

So is that a no?

Of course not lol. Because we would then have to point all of Lewan's false starts last week and all year as opposed to one play you think was a false start on Buffalo for doing the same thing.

And this blatant face mask? Sorry, haven't seen it, didn't see it in the game, but happy to look if you have some kind of video of it.

But, everyone saw the catch where the ball hit the ground before anyone had control. (wrong....by rule the ball is allowed to hit the ground as long as it doesn't move....there was dual possession which then defers to the offense, and Worthy appeared to be "more" in control at the end of the play anyway) Everyone saw Kincaid likely get the first down followed by Allen getting the first down with neither one called. (wrong neither play made it so it was clear) Everyone saw Chris Jones lined up offsides multiple times. (not sure what plays these were, I'd lke to see them, waere they tuch push plays where basically everybody has their helmet actually in the neutral zone, I don't remember these specifically) Everyone saw multiple plays that could've been called holding or blocks in the back on the punt return. (don't remember hearing much about these, they do get missed a lot in many games) And there's video out there of a bunch of instances where the Bills got cheated out of first downs on blatantly bad spots when even the announcers said it was a first down and had to backtrack when the ref moved the ball back. (think you are just repeating same stuff from the above here, what were the others) Did any one play give the Chiefs the game? Of course not. But cumulatively, they had a big impact.

commented above in bolded....we get it....chiefs have won like how many division titles in a row....have been in the playoffs and the AFC championship every year since Mahomes became a starter.....people are jealous of their success....we get that's what it is at this point....cause man they ain't that good and can't have that kind of sustained success without it being because of some outside factor...whatever makes you feel better....

Looks like Beer Goggles have more than one purpose.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I’m assuming the ref discussion includes people livid with the blatant missed face mask on the Bills keeping KC out of fg range? Also certainly people are upset that the Bills LT false started on the Mack Hollins 33 yard TD play right? I’m guessing there were more but that’s the NFL. Have to overcome that stuff and play on.

LOL is this what Chiefs fans are telling themselves at this point?

The Bills LT on that play did what Taylor has done for the Chiefs at RT dozens of times per game all year. Apparently it's a loophole in the rule that an OL in a 2 point stance can adjust their back foot without it being a penalty. If it was, the Chiefs would've had 20 or 30 false starts per game. Happens on most of their passing plays and people everywhere have commented on it.

No clue what facemask you're talking about. I do remember a facemask penalty on a Bills cornerback for touching but not grabbing Worthy's facemask though.

It's OK to admit that your team got and always gets the benefit of a bunch of discretionary calls every week. Coaches notice it. Former players notice. Commentators notice it. Its OK for fans to also.

So is that a no?

Of course not lol. Because we would then have to point all of Lewan's false starts last week and all year as opposed to one play you think was a false start on Buffalo for doing the same thing.

And this blatant face mask? Sorry, haven't seen it, didn't see it in the game, but happy to look if you have some kind of video of it.

But, everyone saw the catch where the ball hit the ground before anyone had control. (wrong....by rule the ball is allowed to hit the ground as long as it doesn't move....there was dual possession which then defers to the offense, and Worthy appeared to be "more" in control at the end of the play anyway....if the ball had moved, it would have been incomplete...they said as much) Everyone saw Kincaid likely get the first down followed by Allen getting the first down with neither one called. (wrong neither play made it so it was clear) Everyone saw Chris Jones lined up offsides multiple times. (not sure what plays these were, I'd lke to see them, waere they tuch push plays where basically everybody has their helmet actually in the neutral zone, I don't remember these specifically) Everyone saw multiple plays that could've been called holding or blocks in the back on the punt return. (don't remember hearing much about these, they do get missed a lot in many games) And there's video out there of a bunch of instances where the Bills got cheated out of first downs on blatantly bad spots when even the announcers said it was a first down and had to backtrack when the ref moved the ball back. (think you are just repeating same stuff from the above here, what were the others) Did any one play give the Chiefs the game? Of course not. But cumulatively, they had a big impact.

commented above in bolded....we get it....chiefs have won like how many division titles in a row....have been in the playoffs and the AFC championship every year since Mahomes became a starter.....people are jealous of their success....we get that's what it is at this point....cause man they ain't that good and can't have that kind of sustained success without it being because of some outside factor...whatever makes you feel better....it's ok to admit your jealous, it's a natural emotion...

Your inability to acknowledge a reffing error is consistent with almost every ref I’ve ever come across. I was one for years (different sport). It’s a tough job. It’s tough on the ego to be wrong. But it happens. Like what 99.9% of impartial fans have seen with the Chiefs for years now. I’m not a Bills fan. Not an AFC West (Broncos, Raiders, Chargers) fan. Not a Ravens fan. Etc. It’s painfully obvious at this point that the refs have a subconscious bias that infects their decision making a handful of key moments in big games. We’ve all seen it — except for (some) Chiefs fans and one person who is a ref.

I feel bad for Chiefs fans. They have an all-time amazing coach, QB, TE and DT. They can win most if not all of these games without blatant help from the refs. This nonsense detracts from how good they are.

Again, everyone knows this except a small subset of NFL fans.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

using words like "unevenly" implies cheating or favoritism....no matter how you spin it.....but I get it.... because when reffing basketball that is often often an angle we get from coaches and fans....."look at the foul count....it's totally lopsided"....well the thing is as officials we are not here to make sure the foul count is even....we are here to call a fair game....and sometimes calling a fair game means one team has more fouls or penalties then the other...we aren't going make something up so the foul count looks better or "more even"....we don't give a ****....we try to be consistent....bottom line....but in sports sometimes the other team just plays better then you, they play cleaner, they play with more discipline, they are well coached, they get two yards when they need one, they don't run the same play over and over again....but the losing fans don't want to talk about those things...it makes them feel better to blame it on something else....

 

[Ghost Rider]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

Considering how Super Bowl 40 went, it's pretty hilarious how dug in you are on this. (and I am NOT a Chiefs fan)

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

Considering how Super Bowl 40 went, it's pretty hilarious how dug in you are on this. (and I am NOT a Chiefs fan)

The Steelers got a few discretionary calls in that game for sure. Jackson didn't need to push off, but he extended his arm and drew the flag. Locklear didn't need to grab Hagans shoulder as he was beaten around the end, but he did and drew the flag. Could the referee have held his flag? Sure. They were ticky tack fouls, similar to the one called against Bradbury in the last Eagles/Chiefs Super Bowl.

But those penalties sure didn't diminish how much I loved that game lol. Plenty of people still say the game was rigged and the calls were bogus, but I couldn't care less about that. But it wasn't a trend. Two games earlier in those same playoffs, the Steelers had to overcome a brutally bad call that ruled against a Polamalu interception that could've cost them the game against the Colts.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

using words like "unevenly" implies cheating or favoritism....no matter how you spin it.....but I get it.... because when reffing basketball that is often often an angle we get from coaches and fans....."look at the foul count....it's totally lopsided"....well the thing is as officials we are not here to make sure the foul count is even....we are here to call a fair game....and sometimes calling a fair game means one team has more fouls or penalties then the other...we aren't going make something up so the foul count looks better or "more even"....we don't give a ****....we try to be consistent....bottom line....but in sports sometimes the other team just plays better then you, they play cleaner, they play with more discipline, they are well coached, they get two yards when they need one, they don't run the same play over and over again....but the losing fans don't want to talk about those things...it makes them feel better to blame it on something else....

Favoritism, yes.

Cheating, no.

I'm glad you didn't show favoritism when you reffed. I don't think all refs treat things that way whether it's consciously or subconsciously, but you shouldn't take it personally when other referees are called out. People at all levels of football and media have called them out too, and Id bet it'll be watched closely next Sunday.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

appreciate your post....as to the bolded...was the 4th down spot CLEARLY botched...?

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

using words like "unevenly" implies cheating or favoritism....no matter how you spin it.....but I get it.... because when reffing basketball that is often often an angle we get from coaches and fans....."look at the foul count....it's totally lopsided"....well the thing is as officials we are not here to make sure the foul count is even....we are here to call a fair game....and sometimes calling a fair game means one team has more fouls or penalties then the other...we aren't going make something up so the foul count looks better or "more even"....we don't give a ****....we try to be consistent....bottom line....but in sports sometimes the other team just plays better then you, they play cleaner, they play with more discipline, they are well coached, they get two yards when they need one, they don't run the same play over and over again....but the losing fans don't want to talk about those things...it makes them feel better to blame it on something else....

Favoritism, yes.

Cheating, no.

I'm glad you didn't show favoritism when you reffed. I don't think all refs treat things that way whether it's consciously or subconsciously, but you shouldn't take it personally when other referees are called out. People at all levels of football and media have called them out too, and Id bet it'll be watched closely next Sunday.

in your opinion what is the difference between showing "favoritism" and cheating....as an official...they mean the same ****ing thing....

 

[Stinkin Ref]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

bolded....so how would the game have been more exciting if you are impartial....what more did you want....bills had the ball down by three with 3 minutes left and timeouts....how exactly did you "get robbed" of a more exciting game...Josh and the Bills had a defining moment in their hands.....and didn't execute....how is that getting robbed by the refs....I'll hang up and listen....

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

appreciate your post....as to the bolded...was the 4th down spot CLEARLY botched...?

Yep. Everyone except refs and Chiefs fans can see that.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

bolded....so how would the game have been more exciting if you are impartial....what more did you want....bills had the ball down by three with 3 minutes left and timeouts....how exactly did you "get robbed" of a more exciting game...Josh and the Bills had a defining moment in their hands.....and didn't execute....how is that getting robbed by the refs....I'll hang up and listen....

Bills were more likely to go UP and have Mahomes down driving the field with the ball. And since Mahomes always scores at the end - unlike Joshy Boy - that would have been exciting!! (Fair that it might not have been as exciting — but it could have been more so)

Most importantly though, it is deflating when the game is exciting in the moment and the refs stop the energy and momentum with a rough call.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfection concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

First, periods are your friend.

Nobody anywhere disputes how good the Chiefs have been. I've experienced plenty of success as a Steelers fan, not jealous in the least. But for anyone to look objectively at the way their games have been called recently, (not just this past Sunday), it's unrealistic to think that the Chiefs haven't been unevenly benefiting from a vast majority of close judgement calls, especially those in key moments of the games. Its been called out by announcers, talk show hosts, coaches, former players, and TV personalities. People can judge hiwever they want if its intentional or not, but it shouldn't take away a Chiefs fan's enjoyment one bit. It just has a negative impact on football for everyone else.

using words like "unevenly" implies cheating or favoritism....no matter how you spin it.....but I get it.... because when reffing basketball that is often often an angle we get from coaches and fans....."look at the foul count....it's totally lopsided"....well the thing is as officials we are not here to make sure the foul count is even....we are here to call a fair game....and sometimes calling a fair game means one team has more fouls or penalties then the other...we aren't going make something up so the foul count looks better or "more even"....we don't give a ****....we try to be consistent....bottom line....but in sports sometimes the other team just plays better then you, they play cleaner, they play with more discipline, they are well coached, they get two yards when they need one, they don't run the same play over and over again....but the losing fans don't want to talk about those things...it makes them feel better to blame it on something else....

Favoritism, yes.

Cheating, no.

I'm glad you didn't show favoritism when you reffed. I don't think all refs treat things that way whether it's consciously or subconsciously, but you shouldn't take it personally when other referees are called out. People at all levels of football and media have called them out too, and Id bet it'll be watched closely next Sunday.

in your opinion what is the difference between showing "favoritism" and cheating....as an official...they mean the same ****ing thing....

IMO it's about motivation.

I don't think they're actively trying to help the Chiefs win. But subconsciously at this point I think they've been conditioned to give the Chiefs the benefit of the doubt on close plays out of respect for Reid and Mahomes. Id like to believe there's not a directive from the NFL to give the Chiefs a few close calls per game and Id like to believe the refs don't do it for nefarious reasons. But it happens too often for even casual fans to not notice, which is why it's been called out by so many fans, tv and radio personalities, and former players.

But watching the clip of 4 or 5 times when Bills runners or receivers were clearly past a first down line, the announcers even called it a first down, only to see the refs move the ball back a yard or two makes you really think. Didn't notice them at the time, just got caught up in the game flow.

 

[rockaction]

I'm a neutral who was pulling for the Bills. They lost. Period. End of story. They keep losing to KC in the playoffs on the road.

You want home officiating, win in the season. You want the advantages, do what KC did and win Super Bowls when the refs aren't on your side. But all this whining coming from Steelers and Green Bay fans (LOL!) is not going to change a thing, nor is it even correct. The face mask was blatant and everybody is moving before the snap. They'll have to address the whole "shifting to the back leg" in the offseason or leave it as is, which is likely what they'll do.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I think what it comes down to is .....every non KC fan thinks by coming up with all these conspiracies theories, complaints, whining, crying, etc....that it will somehow take away the satisfaction from Chiefs fans over the success that they have had....like it somehow cheapens it in some way....sorry to disappoint but I don't think they are getting the desired result ....probably the opposite in fact....kind of embracing it at this point and other fans crying and whining actually adds the frosting to the cake....

feel bad to see other fan bases completely lose their mind every week...and you get to the point where you feel sorry that it has gotten to that level for them....they can't just take a loss for a loss and lose with any grace....it has to be something else...has KC "gotten" some calls over the last few years....?...I don't like the word gotten or went their way because it reeks of favoritism.....but yeah good teams do in general, in every sport, sometimes appear to end up on the good side ....so yeah things have gone well at times....

they have also been on the "other side" of calls as well.....I have tried to fight the narrative in hear because I truly don't think the refs are cheating or operate under some unconscious bias or whatever people go to....I don't think Tim Donaghy became a football ref all of a sudden...in many sports like boxing, they say leave no doubt....on the majority of the plays people are crying about, teams didn't execute well enough....did the two defenders break up the Worthy play well enough...?...did a ref trip Kincaid when he dropped it...?....did the ref not push Allen hard enough in the back to get through the line....I don't know...

as a 30+ year official of football, basketball. baseball, and softball ....I also tried to just give a very distant view from an officials perspective.....I'm a nobody in the officiating world ....but I do kinda know what goes on behind the scenes and the integrity it takes to ref and what you have to go through to work your way up....so combine that with being a KC fan and it's almost like the perfect concoction to fight the fight in these discussions.....it's just a message board and I know it's a losing battle......good luck to your team or whoever is playing the Chiefs each week....

Similar to you, I don’t believe the refs are rigging the games. Nor do I think they intentionally make calls to favor Mahomes. Nor do I think the refs are a primary reason for KC’s success — quite contrary, if we could go back in time and reverse that abysmal 4th down ball placement, my gut is that Mahomes still finds a way to win! He’s that good!!

But see, here is where you and I differ:
1. I’m unafraid to admit that refs are human, suffer from inherent bias, and CLEARLY botched multiple key calls in favor of the Chiefs the past couple years

2. I don’t think most people complaining about this want to cheapen KCs success. They just want to watch an evenly called game.

3. Many people who are impartial fans (like me) who have no skin in the game simply want to see the best game possible (!!!) and we didn’t get that — we were robbed of a more exciting game by the refs.

4. The NFL could do SOMETHING to address this — but they choose not to, because Goodell doesn’t give a **** about the product he puts out there for the fans — he only cares about short term monetary gain.

It’s really hard to be a ref. In any sport, at any level. Really hard. I was a soccer ref for a decade plus. Have heard it all from coaches and parents. Didn’t always get every call right. It happens.

I just sat through a JV basketball game for a friend’s HS kid. Nobody on either sideline was happy with the officiating (which bluntly was mixed, bad calls both ways). I’m convinced one of the refs has never played basketball based on his attitude and knowledge. But realistically, he’s just a dude doing his best, like almost every ref I know. Which I think is a big part about what I enjoy from your perspective as a long-time ref. You’ve lived it, and that means your experience is a valuable perspective for all of us to benefit from. I thank you for that, even when I disagree with portions of your comments.

bolded....so how would the game have been more exciting if you are impartial....what more did you want....bills had the ball down by three with 3 minutes left and timeouts....how exactly did you "get robbed" of a more exciting game...Josh and the Bills had a defining moment in their hands.....and didn't execute....how is that getting robbed by the refs....I'll hang up and listen....

Bills were more likely to go UP and have Mahomes down driving the field with the ball. And since Mahomes always scores at the end - unlike Joshy Boy - that would have been exciting!! (Fair that it might not have been as exciting — but it could have been more so)

Most importantly though, it is deflating when the game is exciting in the moment and the refs stop the energy and momentum with a rough call.

Even more than that, it was the culmination of way more than 1 or 2 questionable calls from that game and previous games.

What if a penalty HAD been called on the punt return? What if the non-catch had been reversed? What if Chris Jones had been called for lining up offsides once or twice? Hell, what if the Bills could've played the game without knowing they wouldn't be getting any close calls? A bunch of small plays can have a big impact on a game, and the fact is that damn near EVERY close calls went against the Bills. That has to have an impact.

 

[Steelers4Life]

I'm a neutral who was pulling for the Bills. They lost. Period. End of story. They keep losing to KC in the playoffs on the road.

You want home officiating, win in the season. You want the advantages, do what KC did and win Super Bowls when the refs aren't on your side. But all this whining coming from Steelers and Green Bay fans (LOL!) is not going to change a thing, nor is it even correct. The face mask was blatant and everybody is moving before the snap. They'll have to address the whole "shifting to the back leg" in the offseason or leave it as is, which is likely what they'll do.

I'm not whining at all. I don't have a dog in the fight and the Chiefs winning or Bills losing has no impact on my life. Once the Steelers are out, I don't care who wins. It's a discussion on a message board about refereeing in a game and a topic that's received national attention for a reason.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

I'm a neutral who was pulling for the Bills. They lost. Period. End of story. They keep losing to KC in the playoffs on the road.

You want home officiating, win in the season. You want the advantages, do what KC did and win Super Bowls when the refs aren't on your side. But all this whining coming from Steelers and Green Bay fans (LOL!) is not going to change a thing, nor is it even correct. The face mask was blatant and everybody is moving before the snap. They'll have to address the whole "shifting to the back leg" in the offseason or leave it as is, which is likely what they'll do.

I'm not whining at all. I don't have a dog in the fight and the Chiefs winning or Bills losing has no impact on my life. Once the Steelers are out, I don't care who wins. It's a discussion on a message board about refereeing in a game and a topic that's received national attention for a reason.

Yeah, this is just rock being wrong. We all have those moments.

 

[rockaction]

I'm not whining at all.

You've been whining about KC since before the game even began as early as two weeks ago. That sounds not just like whining, but self-interested whining. That a Steelers fan is complaining about league favoritism is more ironic than the examples Alanis Morrisette gave in that song of hers.

But forget motive, the game wasn't officiated that poorly. I knew (yes, I did) that they were going to have trouble spotting the ball from about play four of the game when they looked at each other all confused about a spot. "Here we go," I thought. "Grist for the mill." Alle's lay looked like a first down to me. As a Jets fan this year, though, and somebody who watches every game all year, the officials are horrible at spotting the ball these days, especially (and I don't care what anybody says) with those two female referees running around unable to keep up with play.

That could be something to spend energy on when complaining. Complain about things that are tangible and real, not conspiracy theories that hold no water nor a candle to Occam's razor, which is that the officials are just plain bad. For everyone.

 

[rockaction]

Yeah, this is just rock being wrong.

But when I'm wrong I manage to be fabulously wrong.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Yeah, this is just rock being wrong.

But when I'm wrong I manage to be fabulously wrong.

And it’s one of the things I am impressed by! My wrongness is usually of a duller variety.

 

[JohnnyU]

I'm not whining at all.

You've been whining about KC since before the game even began as early as two weeks ago. That sounds not just like whining, but self-interested whining. That a Steelers fan is complaining about league favoritism is more ironic than the examples Alanis Morrisette gave in that song of hers.

But forget motive, the game wasn't officiated that poorly. I knew (yes, I did) that they were going to have trouble spotting the ball from about play four of the game when they looked at each other all confused about a spot. "Here we go," I thought. "Grist for the mill." Alle's lay looked like a first down to me. As a Jets fan this year, though, and somebody who watches every game all year, the officials are horrible at spotting the ball these days, especially (and I don't care what anybody says) with those two female referees running around unable to keep up with play.

That could be something to spend energy on when complaining. Complain about things that are tangible and real, not conspiracy theories that hold no water nor a candle to Occam's razor, which is that the officials are just plain bad. For everyone.

The booth ref, or one of them,should have used the sky cam to make the call. It clearly shows Allen getting the first down. This shouldn't have been complicated.

 

[Steelers4Life]

Yeah, this is just rock being wrong.

But when I'm wrong I manage to be fabulously wrong.

I think that's the case right now. But I'll let you die on that hill

 

[rockaction]

My wrongness is usually of a duller variety.

Nothing dull about you, Alex. Aside from that time you slept through the SATs because you were borrowing diet pills from Mallory's friend.

 

[rockaction]

The booth ref should have used the sky cam to make the call. It clearly shows Allen getting the first down.

I don't think it clearly showed anything. That's why they went to review and didn't reverse it. We don't see the angles they had in the booth. That's an issue of transparency the NFL could work on, post hoc. You want play to move along as quickly as possible but you also want transparency. So move the game along and then show the viewers what the booth was looking at.

But the call merely stood (like Anarchy99, I listened for the language they used). It was not confirmed, but the call on the field stood because there wasn't enough evidence to overturn it. That's what I saw. I thought he had the first but then got bent back. Okay, but bad spots happen twice a game at least. That's what people aren't discussing here. There's no conspiracy—they blow that call all the time.

And I thought, like Stinkin Ref did, that the guy placing him behind the line to gain had a better view than the other guy who marked him ahead. The guy with the better view just blew the call, IMHO.