Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!
AFFL: FINANCIAL ISSUES AND CONCERNS (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter aerolaw
- Start date
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
That money either went up his nose or into lap dances, I'm calling it absolutely impossible to legally spend that much money into fantasy football software. This guy's whole operation stinks to high heaven, between the mysterious multi-winners and his chickanery with the money. And as far as using kid gloves to keep him here, shouldn't he be emailing or otherwise contacting his clientele through whatever means they paid with, meaning email, snail or through paypal? Its incumbent on a dead forum on a third party message board for this guy to get his word out? Neill is a ghost and I hope he gets whats coming to him. Its absolutely deplorable to take people for a ride like that.cobalt_27 said:
cobalt_27
Footballguy
And like that....<poof>...he's gone.Along with everyone's money.Classy guy.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
I have a sick feeling that Neil will dissappear soon.cobalt_27 said:
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
I hope Neil does pull this off, but it doesn't look good.
Winston Wolfe
The Cleaner
Last Seen: 19th February 2008 - 06:17 PMNeil, you out there?I hope Neil does pull this off, but it doesn't look good.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Boarding?Last Seen: 19th February 2008 - 06:17 PMNeil, you out there?I hope Neil does pull this off, but it doesn't look good.
culdeus
Footballguy
Can someone break down the total fees paid in and what % went to the hosting and software?
At what point did they think it would be a good idea to dip into the prize pool to pay for the software and business? I mean what addl. revenue were they going to get mid-season?
Why can't a league like this just pay a reduced rate to MFL or RTS or something to host all the stuff in that way? You'd put up a message board somewhere else and a standings page or something. I can't imagine that would cost a ton of cash.
Simple crooks is what it looks like to me. Single biggest reason I won't do a WCOFF. The temptation is too great for these people to run off with the cash. or spend it on "recreation" or whatever they are calling it.
At what point did they think it would be a good idea to dip into the prize pool to pay for the software and business? I mean what addl. revenue were they going to get mid-season?
Why can't a league like this just pay a reduced rate to MFL or RTS or something to host all the stuff in that way? You'd put up a message board somewhere else and a standings page or something. I can't imagine that would cost a ton of cash.
Simple crooks is what it looks like to me. Single biggest reason I won't do a WCOFF. The temptation is too great for these people to run off with the cash. or spend it on "recreation" or whatever they are calling it.
Captain Hook
Footballguy
This is a really absurd comment. Just because one outfit has a problem, why are you even mentioning a different contest provider who has Never had any problem or been at all late or anything but upfront and trustworthy?
Ted's Cracked Head
Footballguy
Simple crooks is what it looks like to me. Single biggest reason I won't do a WCOFF. The temptation is too great for these people to run off with the cash. or spend it on "recreation" or whatever they are calling it.
culdeus, I can assure you (100%) that the operators of the WCOFF are not running off or spending anyone elses money. That challenge along with the NFFC are two of the most reliable providers in the industry. They offer tremendous fantasy experiences and as someone who has played in each of these events in all but one year in both, I can say that their track records are spotless. I have no vested interest in either of them, I am just a player. If you have the resources to play in these events, I HIGHLY suggest both of them.
You really should consider these events in 2008.
Note: I rcvd my 100K from the NFFC immediately and that darn trophy is awesome.
If you want more info you can email me at tedscrackedhead@aol.com
culdeus, I can assure you (100%) that the operators of the WCOFF are not running off or spending anyone elses money. That challenge along with the NFFC are two of the most reliable providers in the industry. They offer tremendous fantasy experiences and as someone who has played in each of these events in all but one year in both, I can say that their track records are spotless. I have no vested interest in either of them, I am just a player. If you have the resources to play in these events, I HIGHLY suggest both of them.
You really should consider these events in 2008.
Note: I rcvd my 100K from the NFFC immediately and that darn trophy is awesome.
If you want more info you can email me at tedscrackedhead@aol.com
Just a quick comment. I agree the NFFC is a great company. I don't know the WCOFF, but I believe the AFFL had a history until this year of paying all its prizes. This will probably make me think twice before entering a high stakes game. With the current economy, a contest that had decent margins in the past may find itself struggling.
Ted's Cracked Head
Footballguy
Affl,
You do not need to read any posts. Just report your progress.
If you want the cliff notes here they are: (paraphrasing to save you time)
1) The AFFL and Neil is a crook and if you won money you have no chance to recoup it. Most of the better posts discuss the current business climate and difficulty that you could have in securing financing now. They further discuss how difficult it will be for you to get people to trust you and play your games if you do stay "alive" in this industry.
2) Give the AFFL a chance to put something together before passing judgement.
3) Will a non-payment by the AFFL impact the fantay sports industry? Will or could it invite further scrutiny into the fantasy sports industry and have a negative affect on the providers who have worked tirelessly to grow this industry and make it legitimate?
That pretty much sums up these 6 pages.
The fate of the issue rests soley in your hands.
You do not need to read any posts. Just report your progress.
If you want the cliff notes here they are: (paraphrasing to save you time)
1) The AFFL and Neil is a crook and if you won money you have no chance to recoup it. Most of the better posts discuss the current business climate and difficulty that you could have in securing financing now. They further discuss how difficult it will be for you to get people to trust you and play your games if you do stay "alive" in this industry.
2) Give the AFFL a chance to put something together before passing judgement.
3) Will a non-payment by the AFFL impact the fantay sports industry? Will or could it invite further scrutiny into the fantasy sports industry and have a negative affect on the providers who have worked tirelessly to grow this industry and make it legitimate?
That pretty much sums up these 6 pages.
The fate of the issue rests soley in your hands.
Ted's Cracked Head
Footballguy
Hint: I think the Mega Millions game is over 200 Million tonight. If I hit it I will be looking to purchase the AFFL an make your customers whole and then some. Wish me luck.
So was the affl.Here's what you're going to see next if it's already not happening. These folks are going to create their own teams to fill out the remaining slots. Heck, a couple of sub-leagues could be set-up with only farce teams to assure the owners of a piece of the playoff cut.Simple crooks is what it looks like to me. Single biggest reason I won't do a WCOFF. The temptation is too great for these people to run off with the cash. or spend it on "recreation" or whatever they are calling it.
culdeus, I can assure you (100%) that the operators of the WCOFF are not running off or spending anyone elses money. That challenge along with the NFFC are two of the most reliable providers in the industry. They offer tremendous fantasy experiences and as someone who has played in each of these events in all but one year in both, I can say that their track records are spotless. I have no vested interest in either of them, I am just a player. If you have the resources to play in these events, I HIGHLY suggest both of them.You really should consider these events in 2008.
Note: I rcvd my 100K from the NFFC immediately and that darn trophy is awesome.
If you want more info you can email me at tedscrackedhead@aol.com
Captain Hook
Footballguy
NOTNot in any way, shape or form. The people who run WCOFF and NFFC and their reputations and resources behind them were considerably more reputable and substantial than many of the online contests.
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
Team Legacy
Footballguy
Now as one of the teams owed, I'd just like to say that what I really want from a high stakes league is the following: (in order of importance)
1. Format / Rules that inspire me to play
2. High Payout %
3. Safeguards with regards to cheating / collusion
4. Competent software with live scoring and contest tracking
5. Timely payouts - delivered as guaranteed
6. Message board camradarie
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I look for #1 , then work my way down. Without all, you'll never be a premier event, even if you're a big dog, you'll likely fail without all of the above.
Having said that, one thing that struck me as really odd is this - On draft day some leagues were not filled apparently, so there was a handful of teams that were drafted by computer (or with Neil's assistance) and then sold on Ebay. This was my FIRST big red flag of the event and I should have known then that I wasn't going to see a dime.
1. Format / Rules that inspire me to play
2. High Payout %
3. Safeguards with regards to cheating / collusion
4. Competent software with live scoring and contest tracking
5. Timely payouts - delivered as guaranteed
6. Message board camradarie
That's pretty much it in a nutshell. I look for #1 , then work my way down. Without all, you'll never be a premier event, even if you're a big dog, you'll likely fail without all of the above.
Having said that, one thing that struck me as really odd is this - On draft day some leagues were not filled apparently, so there was a handful of teams that were drafted by computer (or with Neil's assistance) and then sold on Ebay. This was my FIRST big red flag of the event and I should have known then that I wasn't going to see a dime.
King of Queens
Footballguy
You've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
King of Queens
Footballguy
On a more positive note, the AFFL boards should be back on-line by Sunday (2/24). Will the posts made between 2/8 through 2/16 be reinstated, or are they still too spooky?
Team Legacy
Footballguy
I pinkie swear. He didn't get full price for them, but I did see the postings.You've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
Team Legacy
Footballguy
I'm guessing gone forever.
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Seriously, that's hilarious. Not for you, obviously. But, it's such a disgrace, I find it morbidly humorous on some level.
culdeus
Footballguy
WOWJust WOWYou've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
Kiddnets
Footballguy
WOWJust WOWYou've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
- and he ran a mid season contest?
cobalt_27
Footballguy
Can't wait for his update with his investors.WOWJust WOWYou've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
- and he ran a mid season contest?
Perhaps, he should consider selling pepperoni sticks and cookies door-to-door, at this point, what with the way the rest of his business is operated.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
5 hrs and counting......either doing a lot of reading or its a heck of an "update"doesn't take 5 hrs to post, "good news......"
Ted's Cracked Head
Footballguy
Holy Shnikees! Was that process in the rules? Seriously.WOWJust WOWYou've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
Scotty or anyone, send me the rules if you have them. My curiosity now has the best of me. I don't care if it was one or 30 teams, that is WAY wrong (unless otherwise specified in the rules).
Disclaimer: I have no legal basis for my views above, just guessing.
Last edited by a moderator:
1 of 2 things will happen fella's
They get sued and it opens up a can of worms in regards to FF and gambling -- bad for FF in general ! could be really really bad !
The declare bankruptcy - noone sees a dime who won anything !
If they have any decencey they sell off whatever they have and pay the winners as much as they can - then declare bankruptcy and never show their faces in reagrds to FF again !
They get sued and it opens up a can of worms in regards to FF and gambling -- bad for FF in general ! could be really really bad !
The declare bankruptcy - noone sees a dime who won anything !
If they have any decencey they sell off whatever they have and pay the winners as much as they can - then declare bankruptcy and never show their faces in reagrds to FF again !
If someone owed me $100,000 and wasn't paying...i guarantee there would be more options.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Well, their luck may be turning around.
You would imagine the people on their boards would be pretty angry right now, but it just so happens they're down for "scheduled" maintainence.
http://forums.affl.com/boarddown.asp
If thats not a lucky break, I don't know what its!
I hope he saved some money to buy a fake moustache and some sunglasses to get across the border with!
You would imagine the people on their boards would be pretty angry right now, but it just so happens they're down for "scheduled" maintainence.
http://forums.affl.com/boarddown.asp
If thats not a lucky break, I don't know what its!
I hope he saved some money to buy a fake moustache and some sunglasses to get across the border with!
Kiddnets
Footballguy
exactly - Joe and others keep citing bankruptcy as the end game here....as Enron execs can testify, there are other end games...
Hey Legacy, how many teams did you buy on EBAY? Sorry, Scott, could not resist. But, it does bring up a point about how the revenue would be lower, especially with high payouts.I pinkie swear. He didn't get full price for them, but I did see the postings.You've gotta be kidding me. EBay?
Last edited by a moderator:
Aussie Cowboy
Footballguy
Leroy's Aces
Footballguy
Scott, interesting post. I am making a mental note about it.
FantasyTrader
Footballguy
So FF being a game of skill, would cease to be a game of skill because some league manager didn't pay?The Moz said:
GoBrowns2008
Footballguy
I am a prize winner still waiting on payment, but am not holding my breath. I figured that I would chime in because Neil has been flaunting his software like it is the most incredible web site ever designed.
The web site has some potential, but it is one of the most user-unfriendly sites I have ever been to. Almost every link opens a popup window, so you could easily have 5 different windows AFFL windows open at once, which gets very annoying. Also, the look and feel of the site is different depending on what page you are on. The pages do not flow when navigating from one page to the next.
Maybe I am too hard on the site because I am a software engineer and see so much that I believe could be done much better.
However, I would love to have the name of the individual/company that valued your software at 850k, because I have a bunch of land off the coast of California I think they might like to buy.
The web site has some potential, but it is one of the most user-unfriendly sites I have ever been to. Almost every link opens a popup window, so you could easily have 5 different windows AFFL windows open at once, which gets very annoying. Also, the look and feel of the site is different depending on what page you are on. The pages do not flow when navigating from one page to the next.
Maybe I am too hard on the site because I am a software engineer and see so much that I believe could be done much better.
However, I would love to have the name of the individual/company that valued your software at 850k, because I have a bunch of land off the coast of California I think they might like to buy.
Team Legacy
Footballguy
Good point about the software, one thing I didn't like about it was pretty major IMO.
The changes are LIVE at the point of player movement from starters to bench. You drag and drop them to the starting lineup from the bench and so on. Most sites, you move a player from one to another and hit SUBMIT. If you hit SUBMIT in time, your move is considered VALID. Well imagine my surprise when watching pre-game and I hear Lendale is sore and may be rested a bit today, better get the flex in! Drag out Lendale White so I have a free roster space on the starting lineup. Drag in DJ Hackett, ERROR! Time limit has expired. Now I have an empty spot, would have been better off with a sore Lendale, but instead I have nobody.
The changes are LIVE at the point of player movement from starters to bench. You drag and drop them to the starting lineup from the bench and so on. Most sites, you move a player from one to another and hit SUBMIT. If you hit SUBMIT in time, your move is considered VALID. Well imagine my surprise when watching pre-game and I hear Lendale is sore and may be rested a bit today, better get the flex in! Drag out Lendale White so I have a free roster space on the starting lineup. Drag in DJ Hackett, ERROR! Time limit has expired. Now I have an empty spot, would have been better off with a sore Lendale, but instead I have nobody.
Wombat Killer
Footballguy
What is the point of having #2 be high payout % and #5 being guaranteed payouts? Anything to do with payouts is a moot point if they aren't made.
From now on, for me, the 1st most important factor in choosing a fantasy contest will be proof that all prizes are held in escrow/prize lock, etc.
Everything else comes second because of this AFFL situation
cobalt_27
Footballguy
No kidding. I would have never even considered something like this going in. Of course they'll have the money to pay up. (Or, so I thought, at least)
Rooster
Footballguy
Neil seems to be having a lot of issues with following through on what he says lately. All in all, not a very good sign. I'd expect someone in his position that earnestly believed he could resolve the situation to keep lines of communication open and to bust his butt to follow through on everything he said until he made things right. My premature and completely uninformed guess is that his meetings with investors didn't go well last week (and I'd also guess that he probably had several other meetings with investors that obviously didn't go well prior to the end of the season) and he's now coming to terms with the fact that he may not be able to make good on the payouts. I suspect that we'll hear less and less from Neil as time goes on if that is indeed the case.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
he must be working on some update to take over 48 hrs to prepare - the winners deserve better!
Captain Hook
Footballguy
If yous guys would stop adding on to the thread maybe he could finish reading and post his reply 
ericthemidget
Footballguy
Who would invest in a brand that is now tarnished and couldn't even bring in enough entries to cover prizes (much less additional software costs)? I give AFFL credit for making a run at being a player in the high stakes arena, but it seems thing got out of hand. As far as the state of the art commissioner software goes, that is a crowded space already, so I would question the value of that as well. It's one thing if it had a proven track record of usage and was growing market share, but it would basically be starting at ground zero.
