AFFL: FINANCIAL ISSUES AND CONCERNS (2 Viewers)

[cobalt_27]

This is what it says on the AFFL homepage....2008 Entry Fees and Grand Prizes Platinum Entry - $1200 through June 1st, then $1350 Grand Prize $100,000 or more Gold Entry - $500 through June 1st, then $600; Grand Prize $75,000 Silver Entry - $150 through June 1st, then $185; Grand Prize $40,000 Bronze Entry - $100 through June 1st, then $125; Grand Prize $25,000 Copper Entry - $35; Grand Prize $10,000 AFFLAC Entry - $10; Prizes TBD Eliminator Entry - $10; Prizes TBD My favorite is "$100,000 or more". I am owed a little over $1,000, have not received or heard ONE PERSONAL update on my prize $$ status (just the generic one he has sent to everyone), yet he is already promoting $100,000 OR MORE (along with the other grand prizes). Glad to know your CURRENT customers who you owe money to, aren't as important as the "potential suckers" out there looking for a high stakes contest!Neil better be paying out soon, as his "deception" isn't going to play out very well in court. It is going to pretty difficult to prove this isn't fraud with all the things (see above, calling grand prize winners when you KNEW there was a very good chance you couldn't pay, and everything else we have yet to know about).For your sake, I hope you START paying people VERY soon

Someone really has to step in and stop this. He has deliberately disabled the message board (one can reasonably assume, at least) so that none of this year's winners can warn any of the new players to steer clear of this place. Neil clearly cannot be entrusted to keep secure other people's monies. I expect him to completely defraud these poor folks, just like he has the current batch. Seriously, who is there that can put a leash on this puppy, get him into a courtroom (and preferably behind bars) and protect these folks?

 

[BillyWaz]

This is what it says on the AFFL homepage....2008 Entry Fees and Grand Prizes Platinum Entry - $1200 through June 1st, then $1350 Grand Prize $100,000 or more Gold Entry - $500 through June 1st, then $600; Grand Prize $75,000 Silver Entry - $150 through June 1st, then $185; Grand Prize $40,000 Bronze Entry - $100 through June 1st, then $125; Grand Prize $25,000 Copper Entry - $35; Grand Prize $10,000 AFFLAC Entry - $10; Prizes TBD Eliminator Entry - $10; Prizes TBD My favorite is "$100,000 or more". I am owed a little over $1,000, have not received or heard ONE PERSONAL update on my prize $$ status (just the generic one he has sent to everyone), yet he is already promoting $100,000 OR MORE (along with the other grand prizes). Glad to know your CURRENT customers who you owe money to, aren't as important as the "potential suckers" out there looking for a high stakes contest!Neil better be paying out soon, as his "deception" isn't going to play out very well in court. It is going to pretty difficult to prove this isn't fraud with all the things (see above, calling grand prize winners when you KNEW there was a very good chance you couldn't pay, and everything else we have yet to know about).For your sake, I hope you START paying people VERY soon

Someone really has to step in and stop this. He has deliberately disabled the message board (one can reasonably assume, at least) so that none of this year's winners can warn any of the new players to steer clear of this place. Neil clearly cannot be entrusted to keep secure other people's monies. I expect him to completely defraud these poor folks, just like he has the current batch. Seriously, who is there that can put a leash on this puppy, get him into a courtroom (and preferably behind bars) and protect these folks?

With the exception of taking him to court, the best way to "get the word out" is just to tell everyone you can.Many people on here play in other high stakes fantasy football contests, and we should use those message boards to make sure the public is aware of what is going on.

 

[cobalt_27]

This is what it says on the AFFL homepage....2008 Entry Fees and Grand Prizes Platinum Entry - $1200 through June 1st, then $1350 Grand Prize $100,000 or more Gold Entry - $500 through June 1st, then $600; Grand Prize $75,000 Silver Entry - $150 through June 1st, then $185; Grand Prize $40,000 Bronze Entry - $100 through June 1st, then $125; Grand Prize $25,000 Copper Entry - $35; Grand Prize $10,000 AFFLAC Entry - $10; Prizes TBD Eliminator Entry - $10; Prizes TBD My favorite is "$100,000 or more". I am owed a little over $1,000, have not received or heard ONE PERSONAL update on my prize $$ status (just the generic one he has sent to everyone), yet he is already promoting $100,000 OR MORE (along with the other grand prizes). Glad to know your CURRENT customers who you owe money to, aren't as important as the "potential suckers" out there looking for a high stakes contest!Neil better be paying out soon, as his "deception" isn't going to play out very well in court. It is going to pretty difficult to prove this isn't fraud with all the things (see above, calling grand prize winners when you KNEW there was a very good chance you couldn't pay, and everything else we have yet to know about).For your sake, I hope you START paying people VERY soon

Someone really has to step in and stop this. He has deliberately disabled the message board (one can reasonably assume, at least) so that none of this year's winners can warn any of the new players to steer clear of this place. Neil clearly cannot be entrusted to keep secure other people's monies. I expect him to completely defraud these poor folks, just like he has the current batch. Seriously, who is there that can put a leash on this puppy, get him into a courtroom (and preferably behind bars) and protect these folks?

With the exception of taking him to court, the best way to "get the word out" is just to tell everyone you can.Many people on here play in other high stakes fantasy football contests, and we should use those message boards to make sure the public is aware of what is going on.

Hence, this should be in the FFA. But, we've already argued with Joe about this one.

 

[JohnnyU]

I don't know if this has already been posted or not. It's an article and discussion with Neil at the Fantasy Fanatics website.

Here

High Stakes Fantasy Football Site AFFL's Payment Issues Heating Up

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By Dan

Posted on: 03-04-08

As the 2007 fantasy football season wrapped up, many fantasy owners settled with their managers and began looking forward to another competitive and grueling season in 2008. The skies weren’t as sunny in Michigan, however. The American Fantasy Football League, or AFFL, a provider of high stakes fantasy football contests, found itself unable to process nearly half a million dollars’ worth of prizes as a result of a lack of capital. The company is now searching feverishly for an investor while many customers patiently wait. FantasyFanatics.com sat down with Neil Wickham, the businessman behind AFFL, to learn more about the situation and its resolution.

Many people are calling this the “AFFL scandal,” but the story behind the issue is anything but a scandal. You might ask yourself how a company like AFFL could almost instantaneously find itself $475,000 in debt. For AFFL, it was a combination of legislative woes and technical overruns. When the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, or UIGEA, was passed in late 2006, it prohibited the transfer of funds for gambling online. Fantasy sports, however, received a special carve-out – with a few catches. One caveat was that prize payouts could no longer be dependent on the number of entrants; rather, they had to be specified ahead of time.

Wickham explains AFFL’s business decisions heading into the 2007 fantasy football season: “We set our prizes based on the projected entries we thought we would have plus the necessary software improvements. We estimated our growth and we knew we couldn’t handle it without software improvements. We dug some holes that we really couldn’t dig out of after getting feedback from computing experts who said we should go in a different direction with regards to our technology. We had to cancel an entire day of a Copper draft and lost a lot of new customers off that. We had a repeat winner the year before, which hurt us too. We didn’t advertise properly, either. We put a lot of our advertising budget into SEO instead of magazines and online advertising, which backfired.”

One option available to businesses under the UIGEA is canceling a contest if the number of entries fails to reach a certain threshold. The option was available to AFFL, so why didn’t Wickham and company use it? “It’s easy for people to say that we should have canceled the contest. The problem is that we frontloaded money as entry fees came in. I shouldn’t have assumed we were going to get a certain level of growth. Had we known we weren’t going to get the growth, we wouldn’t have made software changes. Then, we wouldn’t have set the prizes as high as we did. People think we’re running away with the money. We’re not running away with any money; it went to the business.”

AFFL now owes $475,000 in prize money to 2007 winners and totals $850,000 in current liabilities. On the asset side, the company possesses $850,000 in re-creation costs, which is a technological term that values the source code of a particular program. It takes into account the amount of time needed to re-create the code, factoring in the value of the code itself and the learning curve a programmer would have to go through to develop it in the first place.

AFFL entering bankruptcy also isn’t an option. Wickham counters that he’s in it for the long-haul: “I don’t consider bankruptcy an option. I have too much invested personally and those loans are personal loans that don’t go away in a bankruptcy. The prize debts would go away, but the personal loans that I’ve used to sustain AFFL won’t. We’re not entertaining that option. The only way I’m leaving AFFL is if I’m selling it. We’re in for the long-haul.”

The amount of attention that the issue has received in recent weeks has been monumental. AFFL may be close to securing an investor, which would help rectify the problem: “We have one investor who’s in if we spin off AFFL. There’s a grand opportunity for someone here. There’s been more exposure for us in the last two weeks than we’ve ever gotten. There are a lot of people watching to see what’s going to happen.” A new investor would likely need to pay out $475,000 in cash to prize winners, else risk a potential hazardous situation in the market. Other boutique fantasy sports game operators may also suffer as a result of customers questioning their ability to pay out at the end of the fantasy season.

Scott Atkins is an AFFL customer who finds himself without proper prize payment. He’s owed $3,300 and offers the following thoughts: “I am saddened and disappointed by the current AFFL situation, not only as someone who is owed over $3,000, but as a participant in several high stakes fantasy football events. AFFL had a track record of paying that spanned over five years. It's entirely possible that this could happen to any organization that finds itself in financial distress. The level of trust I once blindly held has been severely diminished.”

A member of FootballGuys.com named aerolaw is due $800 from AFFL as a result of his winnings last season. He commented to FantasyFanatics.com, “My ideal resolution is that everyone gets paid and there is no fallout that affects the industry. If some legislator is a fantasy football enthusiast, he might think that regulation and oversight is a good idea, at best. At worst, he’d think it is interstate gambling and try to put an end to it.” As to whether he would play again on AFFL: “No, I would not play AFFL again unless there was a change in ownership.”

Despite a rocky road, Wickham isn’t fazed. He’s pursuing new venture capital every single day: “I definitely am optimistic as to how it will turn out. It’s been stressful, but it’s always good to get to talk to investors. They’re excited to talk to you, which makes you even more excited to talk to them. I’m handling the public relations work myself. I try to call everyone back and e-mail everyone back myself. I understand why people are frustrated. I don’t blame then one bit. The situation will work out. We’ll find an investor.”

What do you think? Discuss this article in a special thread in the fantasy football forum by clicking here.

 

[Leroy's Aces]

By the way, is it common knowledge to everyone that Neil paid his 2006 winners with the 2007 entry fees? Because it seems pretty obvious to me that he did.

That would explain why his software supposedly cost so much money. That would explain why AFFL was not in the fantasy magazines advertising: he did not have the money to meet their early deadlines yet; he was still trying to pay his 2006 customers. Those deadlines are in April and May, and he likely did not have the cash flow since he still owed 2006 players money AND he had not yet starting stealing from his 2007 customers.

That would explain why he had no money and is almost the only possible way that someone could have a cash flow issue as bad as this one. Even if he took in $350,000 in entry fees and owes for $475,000 and one adds another $50,000 for administration, that still leaves $675,000 to allocate to software expense. OR, maybe he used $300,000 in 2007 entry fees to pay 2006 winners, was already $100,000 in the hole and then had already spent $100,000-$200,000 (the likely true cost and value) on the software in the hopes of selling it.

That makes the most sense and would explain why he did not cancel the 2007 event: the money was gone BEFORE the contest even started, paid to 2006 winners as well as the software people, and he was probably well in arrears with them prior to kickoff of 2007.

Someone should call the Michigan state attorney generals office on Monday. His name is Mike Cox: http://www.michigan.gov/ag

Consumer Protection Division

P.O. Box 30213

Lansing, MI 48909

(517) 373-1140

Toll Free (877) 765-8388

Facsimile (517) 241-3771

Closest Local Office to AFFL HQ in Troy, MI:

Detroit Office

Cadillac Place, 10th Floor

3030 W. Grand Blvd., Suite 10-200

Detroit, MI 48202

(313) 456-0240

Facsimile (313) 456-0061

Or VIA E-mail:

miag@michigan.gov

Dave

Leroy's Aces

 

[JohnnyU]

By the way, is it common knowledge to everyone that Neil paid his 2006 winners with the 2007 entry fees? Because it seems pretty obvious to me that he did.

That would explain why his software supposedly cost so much money. That would explain why AFFL was not in the fantasy magazines advertising: he did not have the money to meet their early deadlines yet; he was still trying to pay his 2006 customers. Those deadlines are in April and May, and he likely did not have the cash flow since he still owed 2006 players money AND he had not yet starting stealing from his 2007 customers.

That would explain why he had no money and is almost the only possible way that someone could have a cash flow issue as bad as this one. Even if he took in $350,000 in entry fees and owes for $475,000 and one adds another $50,000 for administration, that still leaves $675,000 to allocate to software expense. OR, maybe he used $300,000 in 2007 entry fees to pay 2006 winners, was already $100,000 in the hole and then had already spent $100,000-$200,000 (the likely true cost and value) on the software in the hopes of selling it.

That makes the most sense and would explain why he did not cancel the 2007 event: the money was gone BEFORE the contest even started, paid to 2006 winners as well as the software people, and he was probably well in arrears with them prior to kickoff of 2007.

Someone should call the Michigan state attorney generals office on Monday. His name is Mike Cox: http://www.michigan.gov/ag

Consumer Protection Division

P.O. Box 30213

Lansing, MI 48909

(517) 373-1140

Toll Free (877) 765-8388

Facsimile (517) 241-3771

Closest Local Office to AFFL HQ in Troy, MI:

Detroit Office

Cadillac Place, 10th Floor

3030 W. Grand Blvd., Suite 10-200

Detroit, MI 48202

(313) 456-0240

Facsimile (313) 456-0061

Or VIA E-mail:

miag@michigan.gov

Dave

Leroy's Aces

I predict he has a gambling problem and blew all of it on a weekend trip to Vegas.

 

[Kiddnets]

This is what it says on the AFFL homepage....2008 Entry Fees and Grand Prizes Platinum Entry - $1200 through June 1st, then $1350 Grand Prize $100,000 or more Gold Entry - $500 through June 1st, then $600; Grand Prize $75,000 Silver Entry - $150 through June 1st, then $185; Grand Prize $40,000 Bronze Entry - $100 through June 1st, then $125; Grand Prize $25,000 Copper Entry - $35; Grand Prize $10,000 AFFLAC Entry - $10; Prizes TBD Eliminator Entry - $10; Prizes TBD My favorite is "$100,000 or more". :( I am owed a little over $1,000, have not received or heard ONE PERSONAL update on my prize $$ status (just the generic one he has sent to everyone), yet he is already promoting $100,000 OR MORE (along with the other grand prizes). Glad to know your CURRENT customers who you owe money to, aren't as important as the "potential suckers" out there looking for a high stakes contest!Neil better be paying out soon, as his "deception" isn't going to play out very well in court. It is going to pretty difficult to prove this isn't fraud with all the things (see above, calling grand prize winners when you KNEW there was a very good chance you couldn't pay, and everything else we have yet to know about).For your sake, I hope you START paying people VERY soon

Someone really has to step in and stop this. He has deliberately disabled the message board (one can reasonably assume, at least) so that none of this year's winners can warn any of the new players to steer clear of this place. Neil clearly cannot be entrusted to keep secure other people's monies. I expect him to completely defraud these poor folks, just like he has the current batch. Seriously, who is there that can put a leash on this puppy, get him into a courtroom (and preferably behind bars) and protect these folks?

With the exception of taking him to court, the best way to "get the word out" is just to tell everyone you can.Many people on here play in other high stakes fantasy football contests, and we should use those message boards to make sure the public is aware of what is going on.

Hence, this should be in the FFA. But, we've already argued with Joe about this one.

I understand Joe's thought process when this issue just hit but now that it has ballooned into this.....there has to be a place for this thread where people can be warned! Like it or not Joe - FBG's is THE site for fantasy football - no one ever comes into this forum - it is a disservice not to have this pinned in the Shark pool or Free for all - I know it doesn't quite fit in either but that is where your customers are and they deserve to be warned especially since this crook is taking money for next year! It's like putting up wanted posters in the Post Office - sure thats not the proper place but its where the people are! I respect you and your site tremendously Joe - I hope you reconsider moving to this to where it will warn others...

 

[QuizGuy66]

Not to defend AFFL in any way, but it doesn't look like sign up for 2008 is possible on the site (i.e. I don't think he's taking in any money for 2008 as yet). At least I couldn't figure out a way to get to such a screen.

-QG

 

[Rooster]

By the way, is it common knowledge to everyone that Neil paid his 2006 winners with the 2007 entry fees? Because it seems pretty obvious to me that he did.

That would explain why his software supposedly cost so much money. That would explain why AFFL was not in the fantasy magazines advertising: he did not have the money to meet their early deadlines yet; he was still trying to pay his 2006 customers. Those deadlines are in April and May, and he likely did not have the cash flow since he still owed 2006 players money AND he had not yet starting stealing from his 2007 customers.

That would explain why he had no money and is almost the only possible way that someone could have a cash flow issue as bad as this one. Even if he took in $350,000 in entry fees and owes for $475,000 and one adds another $50,000 for administration, that still leaves $675,000 to allocate to software expense. OR, maybe he used $300,000 in 2007 entry fees to pay 2006 winners, was already $100,000 in the hole and then had already spent $100,000-$200,000 (the likely true cost and value) on the software in the hopes of selling it.

That makes the most sense and would explain why he did not cancel the 2007 event: the money was gone BEFORE the contest even started, paid to 2006 winners as well as the software people, and he was probably well in arrears with them prior to kickoff of 2007.

That's a pretty serious accusation. If true, it would be a textbook Ponzi scheme and I would guess Neil would be facing several years in prison for fraud. If you have any evidence of those actions, you should contact the authorities immediately. If past seasons ran with a similar time line to this season, it would've been impossible without at least a short term loan from a third party. He pays last seasons winners in early February and takes sign ups starting in March.

 

[zadok]

Someone should call the Michigan state attorney generals office on Monday. His name is Mike Cox: http://www.michigan.gov/ag

Consumer Protection Division

P.O. Box 30213

Lansing, MI 48909

(517) 373-1140

Toll Free (877) 765-8388

Facsimile (517) 241-3771

Closest Local Office to AFFL HQ in Troy, MI:

Detroit Office

Cadillac Place, 10th Floor

3030 W. Grand Blvd., Suite 10-200

Detroit, MI 48202

(313) 456-0240

Facsimile (313) 456-0061

Or VIA E-mail:

miag@michigan.gov

For AFFL to even CONSIDER taking entry money for 2008 at this point is 100% unethical.

PAY THE WINNERS FIRST NEIL. If you don't pay them there will BE NO 2008 SEASON.

Personally, I hope AFFL never sees another fantasy season again.

 

[Slam]

By the way, is it common knowledge to everyone that Neil paid his 2006 winners with the 2007 entry fees? Because it seems pretty obvious to me that he did.

That would explain why his software supposedly cost so much money. That would explain why AFFL was not in the fantasy magazines advertising: he did not have the money to meet their early deadlines yet; he was still trying to pay his 2006 customers. Those deadlines are in April and May, and he likely did not have the cash flow since he still owed 2006 players money AND he had not yet starting stealing from his 2007 customers.

That would explain why he had no money and is almost the only possible way that someone could have a cash flow issue as bad as this one. Even if he took in $350,000 in entry fees and owes for $475,000 and one adds another $50,000 for administration, that still leaves $675,000 to allocate to software expense. OR, maybe he used $300,000 in 2007 entry fees to pay 2006 winners, was already $100,000 in the hole and then had already spent $100,000-$200,000 (the likely true cost and value) on the software in the hopes of selling it.

That makes the most sense and would explain why he did not cancel the 2007 event: the money was gone BEFORE the contest even started, paid to 2006 winners as well as the software people, and he was probably well in arrears with them prior to kickoff of 2007.

Someone should call the Michigan state attorney generals office on Monday. His name is Mike Cox: http://www.michigan.gov/ag

Consumer Protection Division

P.O. Box 30213

Lansing, MI 48909

(517) 373-1140

Toll Free (877) 765-8388

Facsimile (517) 241-3771

Closest Local Office to AFFL HQ in Troy, MI:

Detroit Office

Cadillac Place, 10th Floor

3030 W. Grand Blvd., Suite 10-200

Detroit, MI 48202

(313) 456-0240

Facsimile (313) 456-0061

Or VIA E-mail:

miag@michigan.gov

Dave

Leroy's Aces

Dave,Yet another great post.

Remind me not to get involved in a knife fight with you.

PS Glad to hear business was good in 2007. Are you doing NFFC and WCOFF, If so Vegas for both?

 

[cobalt_27]

I imagine it's a foregone conclusion that Neil's messageboard isn't suffering any technical difficulties, but some adviser has gotten in his ear about not letting the AFFL mutiny unfold for prospective "investors" to see first-hand.

As it is, this jack-### is obviously one giant sleaze for high-tailing it with everyone's winnings. Hope he gets his ### handed to him in the legal process.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I imagine it's a foregone conclusion that Neil's messageboard isn't suffering any technical difficulties, but some adviser has gotten in his ear about not letting the AFFL mutiny unfold for prospective "investors" to see first-hand.As it is, this jack-### is obviously one giant sleaze for high-tailing it with everyone's winnings. Hope he gets his ### handed to him in the legal process.

Your constant posting of the same crap over and over and over and over when you weren't even a participant in AFFL almost makes me want to see AFFL stiff these guys. We all know how you feel. We get it. No one is even trying to change your opinion or debate with you. You've done nothing but pollute this thread by piling on and on and on and on. And you wonder why Bryant doesn't want it in the Shark Pool?

 

[cobalt_27]

I imagine it's a foregone conclusion that Neil's messageboard isn't suffering any technical difficulties, but some adviser has gotten in his ear about not letting the AFFL mutiny unfold for prospective "investors" to see first-hand.As it is, this jack-### is obviously one giant sleaze for high-tailing it with everyone's winnings. Hope he gets his ### handed to him in the legal process.

Your constant posting of the same crap over and over and over and over when you weren't even a participant in AFFL almost makes me want to see AFFL stiff these guys.

You're very strange.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.

Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

 

[cobalt_27]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

Who pissed in your Cheerios this morning? What in the hell would you care what I write?So, what you're saying is that, when there's something bad happens and doesn't directly involve you, it's best to just ignore it and walk away. Interesting philosophy.

 

[Kiddnets]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

He has posted his disgust with it and that's cool. But over and over and over and over every single day. This thread isn't in the Shark Pool because of people like cobalt27 peeing in it. That's the point. We all know how he feels. Is it really necessary to pile on every time someone makes a comment? He almost makes me feel sorry for Neil and doesn't do those who are owed money any favors, IMO.

 

[cobalt_27]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

He has posted his disgust with it and that's cool. But over and over and over and over every single day. This thread isn't in the Shark Pool because of people like cobalt27 peeing in it. That's the point. We all know how he feels. Is it really necessary to pile on every time someone makes a comment? He almost makes me feel sorry for Neil and doesn't do those who are owed money any favors, IMO.

Again, this is beyond strange. You are that malleable in your sentiment that you would actually root for the crook just because I am emphatic and persistent about this? You don't see how silly that is? The guy walks away with 100s of thousands of dollars of other people's money, and you cheer for him because of what? Because one guy thinks that's criminal and checks in regularly for updates and makes posts about it? Beyond strange.

 

[Squinting Cyclops]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

He has posted his disgust with it and that's cool. But over and over and over and over every single day. This thread isn't in the Shark Pool because of people like cobalt27 peeing in it. That's the point. We all know how he feels. Is it really necessary to pile on every time someone makes a comment? He almost makes me feel sorry for Neil and doesn't do those who are owed money any favors, IMO.

Again, this is beyond strange. You are that malleable in your sentiment that you would actually root for the crook just because I am emphatic and persistent about this? You don't see how silly that is? The guy walks away with 100s of thousands of dollars of other people's money, and you cheer for him because of what? Because one guy thinks that's criminal and checks in regularly for updates and makes posts about it? Beyond strange.

He is not rooting for a crook and neither am I. Criticizing your incessant redundancy is warranted. We are simply calling for an end to your "OLD NOISE".Feel free to post all you want, you have already posted ad nauseum in this thread.

 

[cobalt_27]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.

Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

He has posted his disgust with it and that's cool. But over and over and over and over every single day. This thread isn't in the Shark Pool because of people like cobalt27 peeing in it. That's the point. We all know how he feels. Is it really necessary to pile on every time someone makes a comment? He almost makes me feel sorry for Neil and doesn't do those who are owed money any favors, IMO.

Again, this is beyond strange. You are that malleable in your sentiment that you would actually root for the crook just because I am emphatic and persistent about this? You don't see how silly that is? The guy walks away with 100s of thousands of dollars of other people's money, and you cheer for him because of what? Because one guy thinks that's criminal and checks in regularly for updates and makes posts about it? Beyond strange.

He is not rooting for a crook and neither am I. Criticizing your incessant redundancy is warranted. We are simply calling for an end to your "OLD NOISE".Feel free to post all you want, you have already posted ad nauseum in this thread.

You're right...RamblinWreck almost wants to root for the guy:

[it] almost makes me want to see AFFL stiff these guys.

I feel much better now. Carry on.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Cobalt...seriously your constant posting in this thread when you have no new information to offer has been over the top. There are about 30 meaningful posts in this entire thread and none of them are yours. None of them are mine either for that matter.

Those who are out $ have the right to vent, but you do not even have that claim to make.

So when you see a crime you can't post your disgust with it? Guess you have nothing to say about the Governor then because it doesn't affect you directly? So all threads simply have new information without comments on it? What forums doThis is an issue that hits the heart of fantasy football - as a huge fantasy fan I have almost joined these types of leagues several times. To see people win life changing money and not get paid disgusts and angers me as it does others here. If you are not - thats fine but dont crap on the people that feel outrage for victims of this crime. Save the barbs for the people that deserve it.

He has posted his disgust with it and that's cool. But over and over and over and over every single day. This thread isn't in the Shark Pool because of people like cobalt27 peeing in it. That's the point. We all know how he feels. Is it really necessary to pile on every time someone makes a comment? He almost makes me feel sorry for Neil and doesn't do those who are owed money any favors, IMO.

Again, this is beyond strange. You are that malleable in your sentiment that you would actually root for the crook just because I am emphatic and persistent about this? You don't see how silly that is? The guy walks away with 100s of thousands of dollars of other people's money, and you cheer for him because of what? Because one guy thinks that's criminal and checks in regularly for updates and makes posts about it? Beyond strange.

He is not rooting for a crook and neither am I. Criticizing your incessant redundancy is warranted. We are simply calling for an end to your "OLD NOISE".Feel free to post all you want, you have already posted ad nauseum in this thread.

You're right...RamblinWreck almost wants to root for the guy:

[it] almost makes me want to see AFFL stiff these guys.

I feel much better now. Carry on.

The word almost does have strong meaning in my sentence. Notice I never said I was rooting for Neil. I agree fully with weevol when he said "He is not rooting for a crook and neither am I. Criticizing your incessant redundancy is warranted. We are simply calling for an end to your "OLD NOISE". Feel free to post all you want, you have already posted ad nauseum in this thread."

 

[FantasyTrader]

Well congratulations. Now instead of cobalt's "noise" the 3 of you have clustered a whole 1/2 page of crap and now I'm posting one more piece of crap pointing it out. See how quickly it can all stack up? This thread deserves to stay on track.

 

[Thunderchicken]

I believe that cobalt simply wants to keep this at the top of the page so that all (admittedly small number) people that come to this forum will hopefully check out what has happened and avoid the AFFL. Sure, he could simply type "bump", but his has chosen to state his continued discord toward Neil and the AFFL. I, for one, am glad that even though cobalt wasn't directly reflected, he has chosen to stand up and join hands with those that have been robbed of their winnings. I have not been directly affected by AFFL, but if nothing is done to stop these knuckleheads from frauding the fantasy community it will grow increasingly harder to find a league that you can trust with your money.

 

[cobalt_27]

I believe that cobalt simply wants to keep this at the top of the page so that all (admittedly small number) people that come to this forum will hopefully check out what has happened and avoid the AFFL. Sure, he could simply type "bump", but his has chosen to state his continued discord toward Neil and the AFFL. I, for one, am glad that even though cobalt wasn't directly reflected, he has chosen to stand up and join hands with those that have been robbed of their winnings. I have not been directly affected by AFFL, but if nothing is done to stop these knuckleheads from frauding the fantasy community it will grow increasingly harder to find a league that you can trust with your money.

In looking back, I think most of my comments in this thread have been in response to something that was posted before; usually something that would either (a) agree/support another person's posting or (b) point out an inconsistency or absurdity to what Neil has been trying to say when he does show his face here. So, it's not like I or others have come in here to just "bump" the thread for the sake of continuing to draw attention to it...it's really been about a continuation of the discussion.And, yeah, I do feel a vested interest in how this goes, despite the fact that I have not been directly affected by the AFFL or Turfwar demise. I have run my fantasy league for 20 years now. I've been a part of this "community" for a while, seen it's growth, and feel connected to it in some way. It's appalling to see anyone get swindled at any point, but to see it hit twice this year in our neck of the woods...I just have a vested interest in supporting the vast majority of the "good guys" that run these things and totally outing the frauds who create fissures and cracks in the system, ruining it for the rest of us.At minimum, it's a discussion worth having still, regardless of who is directly involved or not. Piling on, if that's how it's perceived, is honestly part and parcel of being on a message board. For better or worse, that's how it goes. And, frankly, I don't have a problem with guys like Neil getting dirt flung in their direction.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

My thoughts: AFFL is bad. Shame on you Neil!

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I believe that cobalt simply wants to keep this at the top of the page so that all (admittedly small number) people that come to this forum will hopefully check out what has happened and avoid the AFFL. Sure, he could simply type "bump", but his has chosen to state his continued discord toward Neil and the AFFL. I, for one, am glad that even though cobalt wasn't directly reflected, he has chosen to stand up and join hands with those that have been robbed of their winnings. I have not been directly affected by AFFL, but if nothing is done to stop these knuckleheads from frauding the fantasy community it will grow increasingly harder to find a league that you can trust with your money.

In looking back, I think most of my comments in this thread have been in response to something that was posted before; usually something that would either (a) agree/support another person's posting or (b) point out an inconsistency or absurdity to what Neil has been trying to say when he does show his face here. So, it's not like I or others have come in here to just "bump" the thread for the sake of continuing to draw attention to it...it's really been about a continuation of the discussion.

And, yeah, I do feel a vested interest in how this goes, despite the fact that I have not been directly affected by the AFFL or Turfwar demise. I have run my fantasy league for 20 years now. I've been a part of this "community" for a while, seen it's growth, and feel connected to it in some way. It's appalling to see anyone get swindled at any point, but to see it hit twice this year in our neck of the woods...I just have a vested interest in supporting the vast majority of the "good guys" that run these things and totally outing the frauds who create fissures and cracks in the system, ruining it for the rest of us.

At minimum, it's a discussion worth having still, regardless of who is directly involved or not. Piling on, if that's how it's perceived, is honestly part and parcel of being on a message board. For better or worse, that's how it goes. And, frankly, I don't have a problem with guys like Neil getting dirt flung in their direction.

Yet you must have 75 posts in this thread alone but 0 in the Turfwar Checks thread. You respond to every single comment in this thread instead of just offering your opinion and moving on.Again I'm not defending Neil but at least he shows up here and offers an update whether you believe it or not. Where is the Turfwar guy? He's gone into hiding and clearly looking for the easy way out where Neil is at least trying to sell off so he can pay up. But you flame the hell out of Neil and don't even post in the Turfwar thread, which is strange to me considering your so called vested interest in both.

 

[cobalt_27]

I believe that cobalt simply wants to keep this at the top of the page so that all (admittedly small number) people that come to this forum will hopefully check out what has happened and avoid the AFFL. Sure, he could simply type "bump", but his has chosen to state his continued discord toward Neil and the AFFL. I, for one, am glad that even though cobalt wasn't directly reflected, he has chosen to stand up and join hands with those that have been robbed of their winnings. I have not been directly affected by AFFL, but if nothing is done to stop these knuckleheads from frauding the fantasy community it will grow increasingly harder to find a league that you can trust with your money.

In looking back, I think most of my comments in this thread have been in response to something that was posted before; usually something that would either (a) agree/support another person's posting or (b) point out an inconsistency or absurdity to what Neil has been trying to say when he does show his face here. So, it's not like I or others have come in here to just "bump" the thread for the sake of continuing to draw attention to it...it's really been about a continuation of the discussion.

And, yeah, I do feel a vested interest in how this goes, despite the fact that I have not been directly affected by the AFFL or Turfwar demise. I have run my fantasy league for 20 years now. I've been a part of this "community" for a while, seen it's growth, and feel connected to it in some way. It's appalling to see anyone get swindled at any point, but to see it hit twice this year in our neck of the woods...I just have a vested interest in supporting the vast majority of the "good guys" that run these things and totally outing the frauds who create fissures and cracks in the system, ruining it for the rest of us.

At minimum, it's a discussion worth having still, regardless of who is directly involved or not. Piling on, if that's how it's perceived, is honestly part and parcel of being on a message board. For better or worse, that's how it goes. And, frankly, I don't have a problem with guys like Neil getting dirt flung in their direction.

Yet you must have 75 posts in this thread alone but 0 in the Turfwar Checks thread. You respond to every single comment in this thread instead of just offering your opinion and moving on.Again I'm not defending Neil but at least he shows up here and offers an update whether you believe it or not. Where is the Turfwar guy? He's gone into hiding and clearly looking for the easy way out where Neil is at least trying to sell off so he can pay up. But you flame the hell out of Neil and don't even post in the Turfwar thread, which is strange to me considering your so called vested interest in both.

How many posts are you going to write here saying the exact same thing? You haven't said anything different in your last half-dozen posts. Time to chew on your own diatribes here and move on?

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

I believe that cobalt simply wants to keep this at the top of the page so that all (admittedly small number) people that come to this forum will hopefully check out what has happened and avoid the AFFL. Sure, he could simply type "bump", but his has chosen to state his continued discord toward Neil and the AFFL. I, for one, am glad that even though cobalt wasn't directly reflected, he has chosen to stand up and join hands with those that have been robbed of their winnings. I have not been directly affected by AFFL, but if nothing is done to stop these knuckleheads from frauding the fantasy community it will grow increasingly harder to find a league that you can trust with your money.

In looking back, I think most of my comments in this thread have been in response to something that was posted before; usually something that would either (a) agree/support another person's posting or (b) point out an inconsistency or absurdity to what Neil has been trying to say when he does show his face here. So, it's not like I or others have come in here to just "bump" the thread for the sake of continuing to draw attention to it...it's really been about a continuation of the discussion.

And, yeah, I do feel a vested interest in how this goes, despite the fact that I have not been directly affected by the AFFL or Turfwar demise. I have run my fantasy league for 20 years now. I've been a part of this "community" for a while, seen it's growth, and feel connected to it in some way. It's appalling to see anyone get swindled at any point, but to see it hit twice this year in our neck of the woods...I just have a vested interest in supporting the vast majority of the "good guys" that run these things and totally outing the frauds who create fissures and cracks in the system, ruining it for the rest of us.

At minimum, it's a discussion worth having still, regardless of who is directly involved or not. Piling on, if that's how it's perceived, is honestly part and parcel of being on a message board. For better or worse, that's how it goes. And, frankly, I don't have a problem with guys like Neil getting dirt flung in their direction.

Yet you must have 75 posts in this thread alone but 0 in the Turfwar Checks thread. You respond to every single comment in this thread instead of just offering your opinion and moving on.Again I'm not defending Neil but at least he shows up here and offers an update whether you believe it or not. Where is the Turfwar guy? He's gone into hiding and clearly looking for the easy way out where Neil is at least trying to sell off so he can pay up. But you flame the hell out of Neil and don't even post in the Turfwar thread, which is strange to me considering your so called vested interest in both.

How many posts are you going to write here saying the exact same thing? You haven't said anything different in your last half-dozen posts. Time to chew on your own diatribes here and move on?

Pot, Kettle, Black.So why aren't you flaming Turfwars like you are Neil since you have a vested in interest in both?

 

[cobalt_27]

How many posts are you going to write here saying the exact same thing? You haven't said anything different in your last half-dozen posts. Time to chew on your own diatribes here and move on?

Pot, Kettle, Black.So why aren't you flaming Turfwars like you are Neil since you have a vested in interest in both?

Thank you for making my point even more explicit. I was not aware of the Turfwars scenario until I learned about the AFFL stuff. There had already been about 4-6 pages written on the topic, and I didn't really understand the full scope of what happened except by reading through this thread here. I stuck with one topic, since it seemed others had sufficiently rallied together against the Turfwar stuff. But, the same sentiment applies over there as it does here.

Of course, there were some meatheads on that thread who were suggesting that people go to the Turfwar owner's house and kick the crap out of him to get their money. I mean, seriously...this is how 8th graders resolve their disputes. Didn't seem like a discussion worth getting involved in by that point.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

How many posts are you going to write here saying the exact same thing? You haven't said anything different in your last half-dozen posts. Time to chew on your own diatribes here and move on?

Pot, Kettle, Black.So why aren't you flaming Turfwars like you are Neil since you have a vested in interest in both?

Thank you for making my point even more explicit. I was not aware of the Turfwars scenario until I learned about the AFFL stuff. There had already been about 4-6 pages written on the topic, and I didn't really understand the full scope of what happened except by reading through this thread here. I stuck with one topic, since it seemed others had sufficiently rallied together against the Turfwar stuff. But, the same sentiment applies over there as it does here.

Of course, there were some meatheads on that thread who were suggesting that people go to the Turfwar owner's house and kick the crap out of him to get their money. I mean, seriously...this is how 8th graders resolve their disputes. Didn't seem like a discussion worth getting involved in by that point.

I suggested going to his address and asking him for the money in person since he wouldn't respond any other way. I don't believe I suggested kicking the crap out of him. But then again, if someone stole 50K+ from me, I'd be tempted to beat the crap out of them. If that makes me a meathead so be it. Carry on.

 

[affl_com]

We have received a verbal offer for the complete sale of AFFL and its software, and will have the written letter of intent Thursday morning. There are some contingencies of the LOI that still have to be met, one of which is a third party software valuation.

At this early point in the deal, I do not have an exact date of when the prize checks will be mailed, but only that the deal guarantees that every prize will be paid.

As soon as the stipulations of the deal have been met, I am sure that the new owners will make a public statement. I am confident that they have the expertise to carry AFFL into the future, and to provide an exceptional level of service. Going forward, it has been expressed that their intention is to escrow all prize money to avoid any prize situations in the future.

I appreciate everyone's patience during this time.

As soon as I have additional information regarding the date the deal will be complete and the exact payout dates, I will update everyone again.

 

[Craig_MiamiFL]

*Waiting to see it to believe it*

Hopefully a deal comes through. I just hope they really repackage/rename this product or it'll be a colossal failure.

 

[Kirk]

TO BE HONEST NEIL...... I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD YOU SAY. I AM SURE IN A WEEK OR SO WE WILL HERE " THE DEAL FELL THROUGH" YOU ARE A PROVEN BULL ####ER..................KIRK

 

[bosco224]

Give the guy a break. He didn't have to post anything and tell us about the update. He is trying, let's give him a chance. I for one hope that this really does get resolved (obviously I am owed $76, 350). I did speak to Neil on Sat. and he promised that he would post messages and let me know exactly what was going on, and this time he did follow through on his promise. If the deal does happen, it has a good plan to safeguard the money for next year, which is obviously crucial....Everyone that actually played on his site, has to at least admit that during the season he immediately responded to every question or problem raised (before all this happened, this was one of my favorite sites to play on). It really is too bad that this happen to ruin all his effort during the season.

To everyone that responded to my long posting last week, thank you for your support, and hopefully soon it will be congratulations to all the winnners for receiving their money!

 

[Kiddnets]

Give the guy a break. He didn't have to post anything and tell us about the update. He is trying, let's give him a chance. I for one hope that this really does get resolved (obviously I am owed $76, 350). I did speak to Neil on Sat. and he promised that he would post messages and let me know exactly what was going on, and this time he did follow through on his promise. If the deal does happen, it has a good plan to safeguard the money for next year, which is obviously crucial....Everyone that actually played on his site, has to at least admit that during the season he immediately responded to every question or problem raised (before all this happened, this was one of my favorite sites to play on). It really is too bad that this happen to ruin all his effort during the season.To everyone that responded to my long posting last week, thank you for your support, and hopefully soon it will be congratulations to all the winnners for receiving their money!

If a guy who is owed $75K is willing to give Neil a chance I think the rest of the people following this thread should be too - here's to a hopeful happy ending.....one that won't cost you anything like the last one proposed to me.....

 

[The Moz]

Seriously it does sound like the guy is trying. If he was wanting to stiff everyone he wouldn't be saying a thing. At first I thought the guy was a total POS conartist.

Now I think he just screwed up and is trying to make it right with the winners. Why would he take the time to respond here with everyone calling for his head and else where ? Though if I was a winner I definitley wouldn't be counting on getting the whole amount maybe 50-75 % though.

 

[The Moz]

Give the guy a break. He didn't have to post anything and tell us about the update. He is trying, let's give him a chance. I for one hope that this really does get resolved (obviously I am owed $76, 350). I did speak to Neil on Sat. and he promised that he would post messages and let me know exactly what was going on, and this time he did follow through on his promise. If the deal does happen, it has a good plan to safeguard the money for next year, which is obviously crucial....Everyone that actually played on his site, has to at least admit that during the season he immediately responded to every question or problem raised (before all this happened, this was one of my favorite sites to play on). It really is too bad that this happen to ruin all his effort during the season.To everyone that responded to my long posting last week, thank you for your support, and hopefully soon it will be congratulations to all the winnners for receiving their money!

Dude you got da patience of Job !

 

[Bri]

AFFL guy,If you built this supersonic league manager worth 850k and owe people oh I don't know 300k(?) why not sell the league manager to pay your debts?

 

[King of the Wolfies]

One of the things that is being missed here is the role the new software had in this. I'm not defending AFFL, but the amount spent on software was outrageous. Working in the IT myself, I can almost hear the software guys saying how their software is new and cool and that the old software wont work, and sadly, most people making IT decisions fall for it hook, line and sinker.

I hope that this all gets worked out and that the winners get most if not all their money. i sure hope all of you have filed claims so at least you'll get a chunk of the software if its sold.

 

[teamroc]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I hope the guy who won a bunch of money can take his girls to disney world.

And if the girls are swimsuit models aged 18-23, it didn't happen unless you post pics.

That's all.

 

[B&P]

We have received a verbal offer for the complete sale of AFFL and its software, and will have the written letter of intent Thursday morning. There are some contingencies of the LOI that still have to be met, one of which is a third party software valuation.At this early point in the deal, I do not have an exact date of when the prize checks will be mailed, but only that the deal guarantees that every prize will be paid.As soon as the stipulations of the deal have been met, I am sure that the new owners will make a public statement. I am confident that they have the expertise to carry AFFL into the future, and to provide an exceptional level of service. Going forward, it has been expressed that their intention is to escrow all prize money to avoid any prize situations in the future.I appreciate everyone's patience during this time.As soon as I have additional information regarding the date the deal will be complete and the exact payout dates, I will update everyone again.

Wow, I do hope this works out for everybody...Neil, Disneyworld Dad, Lawsuit Dude..and everybody else. Anybody want to take bets on how much the $850,000 software appraises for? If it hits that number...that's crazy...#1 someone initially invested that much money in FANTASY FOOTBALL SOFTWARE and #2 that a second person now agrees that there is $850,000 FANTASY FOOTBALL SOFTWARE.I'm gonna grab my popcorn..this is gonna be good!

 

[fourd]

Give the guy a break. He didn't have to post anything and tell us about the update. He is trying, let's give him a chance. I for one hope that this really does get resolved (obviously I am owed $76, 350). I did speak to Neil on Sat. and he promised that he would post messages and let me know exactly what was going on, and this time he did follow through on his promise. If the deal does happen, it has a good plan to safeguard the money for next year, which is obviously crucial....Everyone that actually played on his site, has to at least admit that during the season he immediately responded to every question or problem raised (before all this happened, this was one of my favorite sites to play on). It really is too bad that this happen to ruin all his effort during the season.To everyone that responded to my long posting last week, thank you for your support, and hopefully soon it will be congratulations to all the winnners for receiving their money!

bosco, I sent you a private message, please check it. Thanks

 

[Dreamer]

We have received a verbal offer for the complete sale of AFFL and its software, and will have the written letter of intent Thursday morning. There are some contingencies of the LOI that still have to be met, one of which is a third party software valuation.At this early point in the deal, I do not have an exact date of when the prize checks will be mailed, but only that the deal guarantees that every prize will be paid.As soon as the stipulations of the deal have been met, I am sure that the new owners will make a public statement. I am confident that they have the expertise to carry AFFL into the future, and to provide an exceptional level of service. Going forward, it has been expressed that their intention is to escrow all prize money to avoid any prize situations in the future.I appreciate everyone's patience during this time.As soon as I have additional information regarding the date the deal will be complete and the exact payout dates, I will update everyone again.

Wow, I do hope this works out for everybody...Neil, Disneyworld Dad, Lawsuit Dude..and everybody else. Anybody want to take bets on how much the $850,000 software appraises for? If it hits that number...that's crazy...#1 someone initially invested that much money in FANTASY FOOTBALL SOFTWARE and #2 that a second person now agrees that there is $850,000 FANTASY FOOTBALL SOFTWARE.I'm gonna grab my popcorn..this is gonna be good!

It's not just the value of the software, it's all the goodwill that should boost the sales price. Oh, wait...

 

[Kirk]

another week gone by and poor, poor Neil just dosen't know what to do... Come on everyone lets just give back our winnings........since you love his lying ###.... Kirk

 

[Kirk]

GREAT NEWS AFFL HAS FOUND FINANCING...to bad it is with Bear Stearns...

I just thought i would save him the trouble and make up excuses for him.....

 

[softball]

GREAT NEWS AFFL HAS FOUND FINANCING...to bad it is with Bear Stearns...I just thought i would save him the trouble and make up excuses for him.....

I've followed the whole thread, and Kirk; what you where owed, you were paid. So at this point you have no reason to continue with the inflammatory comments. JMO.

 

[Kirk]

GREAT NEWS AFFL HAS FOUND FINANCING...to bad it is with Bear Stearns...I just thought i would save him the trouble and make up excuses for him.....

I've followed the whole thread, and Kirk; what you where owed, you were paid. So at this point you have no reason to continue with the inflammatory comments. JMO.

Well, My Brother is owed money and i am still owed some..... How much are you owed?

 

[softball]

GREAT NEWS AFFL HAS FOUND FINANCING...to bad it is with Bear Stearns...I just thought i would save him the trouble and make up excuses for him.....

I've followed the whole thread, and Kirk; what you where owed, you were paid. So at this point you have no reason to continue with the inflammatory comments. JMO.

Well, My Brother is owed money and i am still owed some..... How much are you owed?

$16,000.

 

[buck naked]

GREAT NEWS AFFL HAS FOUND FINANCING...to bad it is with Bear Stearns...I just thought i would save him the trouble and make up excuses for him.....

I've followed the whole thread, and Kirk; what you where owed, you were paid. So at this point you have no reason to continue with the inflammatory comments. JMO.

Well, My Brother is owed money and i am still owed some..... How much are you owed?

$16,000.

I'm guessing he wasn't expecting that answer.