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AFFL: FINANCIAL ISSUES AND CONCERNS (2 Viewers)

Update for all that sent me e-mails. If you are owed money please send an e-mail to:

loubfdfantasy@hotmail.com

Please only those owed money. Include your name, how much you are owed and what state you are from.

I have contacted:

Consumer Protection, Michigan Major Criminal Division of State Police, Attorney General

This isn't going to be easy to say the least. I was sent from spot to spot and now have a single contact.

I'm not going to give the exact details of what we need to do here, for the simple reason of not divulging the method of operation in going after the AFFL to the AFFL.

I will e-mail those that have sent through their information, and can tell you the best backup I can have is the e-mails I have requested from winners.

 
August 8 bump :unsure: -QG
LOL @ anyone waiting until August 8th to make any moves.Why don't we wait until the 2010 season before making any "rash decision" about pursuing criminal charges against Neil. By then he'll be living with Papillon on Devil's Island.
 
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Just sitting on the sidelines of the :unsure: since this was supposed the next newest latest finalist final deadline.

-QG

 
LATEST EMAIL:

Let us begin by saying thank you for the patience that you have shown throughout this ordeal.

The unfortunate events that have darkened the name of the AFFL have proved too much to overcome. When we started this venture back in March we envisioned a resurrection of the AFFL name. We wanted to come in, make things right, and then move forward. We knew that to keep the AFFL alive would mean paying out all the 2007 prizes as well as pre-securing 2008 prizes. We wanted to prove to the AFFL customers, and the fantasy community, that we would not make the same mistakes that previous ownership did. We wanted to prove to them that we were guys that could be trusted. Unfortunately, mostly due to timing and the economy, we were unable to raise the substantial amount of money it would require to do so. So now what?

There are a lot of people out there that love to play fantasy football and the AFFL provided a great place to do it. In the past few months we have spoken with a lot of customers and have had positive feedback about the structure of the contest. To date, the AFFL has reached almost $60,000 in signups for the upcoming season, all without a resolution to the 2007 problems being announced. People want to play.

We love fantasy football just like you guys. We've been playing for a long time and have wanted to start a contest for a while. We've put a lot of time and money into this and do not want to give up. We're out of ideas, and out of ways to cut costs. This is what we have left.

We are no longer going to try to fix someone else's mistakes and problems. We also do not want to have to pay for someone else's mistakes and problems. We are upfront and honest guys that want to put a great contest out there for the fantasy football community. Therefore, we’re going to take the only option left for us at this time. We are going to start a new contest. We will use the same AFFL software and website, and change the name of the contest in the future. The contest will be run in the exact same fashion as the AFFL. All previously posted prizes and rules will not change. As 2007 prize winners ourselves, we really wanted to make things right and payout 2007 winners. As we stated earlier, we are sad to say that with only a few weeks left until the season starts that’s going to be impossible. We are offering the following three choices for 2007 prize winners:

1. We will be honoring any 2007 AFFL prize credits that you want to roll over. Of the prize winners that we have spoken to, almost 90% were willing to roll over. If you want to put this debacle behind you, move on, and just play fantasy football again, then roll over and play in the same contest you won in last year. We are honest guys and will make timely payouts. Roll over amounts, up to $10,000, will never expire and will be able to be used over multiple years. We will personally contact prizes winners over $10,000 and speak to them personally about their options.

If you choose this option, you will have to agree to absolve International Fantasy Sports and the AFFL of any 2007 prize liability. If you decline this option, please note that Chicago Fantasy Sports will not be assuming any liability for 2007 prize payouts from International Fantasy Sports.

2. Take your chances in court, although, this option will be long and drawn out, and as we understand it, previous ownership has no funds if the lawsuit succeeds. We have also been told that IFS is filing bankruptcy. With option 1 at least you are guaranteed to get something for what is owed to you.

3. Choose not to play with us on principle. Choose not to get involved in a drawn out lawsuit. Just chalk it up to a loss and do nothing. Again, with option 1, at least you are playing fantasy football.

Please follow this link to accept or decline option 1. If you accept, your credits will be available immediately. www.affl.com/prizes

If, prior to February, you had elected to take credit for you prize winnings, that credit is still active. However, you will still need to accept option 1. If that gives you additional credit, your original discount code will be updated.

We hope that you will choose to play with us. Although we cannot prove ourselves to you in advance, as we had hoped, we will certainly do so in the future.

We hope to have the site up and running at 100% in the next few days. Because we never really considered this option until the last few days, there are some things that will need a little time to happen. We will need to have prize winnings placed in your respective accounts soon. Once they are in your accounts, you can choose to use them this year or in future years.

We have also decided to cancel the platinum league for this year only. Although we are reluctant to do so, there is just not enough time to get enough participants in order to make the platinum league competitive. For our platinum players, please consider our gold contest, it costs only $600 to enter, $750 less than the platinum contest and the grand prize is only $15,000 less.

Also, due to time constraints, drafts on August 16th and 17th will be cancelled.

Emails containing further information will be sent out in the future. We know there may be some of you that are unhappy with this resolution and we want you to know that we are as well. We certainly did not envision this when we started, but as I said earlier, this is the only feasible option we have left.

Wade J. Golab 773-908-0246

Robert J. Smolarczyk 773-842-5954

 
One of the main problems of accepting their offer (Option 1) is that we are held hostage to their rules. I originally joined the AFFL because of their ridiculous payout percentages (140%). If we take Option 1 and absolve them of their liability, how can we be certain that in this or future years they don't lower the prizes to less than a 50% payout? We have no guarantees. We are hostages.

 
This sounds like a scam.

They word Option 2 in a very discouraging way so as no one pursues Neil in a court of action.

I wouldnt be surprises if Neil is behind the scenes of this "new regime" to try and clear the cache of the wrong he caused.

Thank god someone is pursuing him for criminal charges.

This should no longer be about suing Neil, it should be about making sure Neil's name does not go untouched in a court of law.

 
LATEST EMAIL:

Let us begin by saying thank you for the patience that you have shown throughout this ordeal.

The unfortunate events that have darkened the name of the AFFL have proved too much to overcome. When we started this venture back in March we envisioned a resurrection of the AFFL name. We wanted to come in, make things right, and then move forward. We knew that to keep the AFFL alive would mean paying out all the 2007 prizes as well as pre-securing 2008 prizes. We wanted to prove to the AFFL customers, and the fantasy community, that we would not make the same mistakes that previous ownership did. We wanted to prove to them that we were guys that could be trusted. Unfortunately, mostly due to timing and the economy, we were unable to raise the substantial amount of money it would require to do so. So now what?

There are a lot of people out there that love to play fantasy football and the AFFL provided a great place to do it. In the past few months we have spoken with a lot of customers and have had positive feedback about the structure of the contest. To date, the AFFL has reached almost $60,000 in signups for the upcoming season, all without a resolution to the 2007 problems being announced. People want to play.

We love fantasy football just like you guys. We've been playing for a long time and have wanted to start a contest for a while. We've put a lot of time and money into this and do not want to give up. We're out of ideas, and out of ways to cut costs. This is what we have left.

We are no longer going to try to fix someone else's mistakes and problems. We also do not want to have to pay for someone else's mistakes and problems. We are upfront and honest guys that want to put a great contest out there for the fantasy football community. Therefore, we’re going to take the only option left for us at this time. We are going to start a new contest. We will use the same AFFL software and website, and change the name of the contest in the future. The contest will be run in the exact same fashion as the AFFL. All previously posted prizes and rules will not change. As 2007 prize winners ourselves, we really wanted to make things right and payout 2007 winners. As we stated earlier, we are sad to say that with only a few weeks left until the season starts that’s going to be impossible. We are offering the following three choices for 2007 prize winners:

1. We will be honoring any 2007 AFFL prize credits that you want to roll over. Of the prize winners that we have spoken to, almost 90% were willing to roll over. If you want to put this debacle behind you, move on, and just play fantasy football again, then roll over and play in the same contest you won in last year. We are honest guys and will make timely payouts. Roll over amounts, up to $10,000, will never expire and will be able to be used over multiple years. We will personally contact prizes winners over $10,000 and speak to them personally about their options.

If you choose this option, you will have to agree to absolve International Fantasy Sports and the AFFL of any 2007 prize liability. If you decline this option, please note that Chicago Fantasy Sports will not be assuming any liability for 2007 prize payouts from International Fantasy Sports.

2. Take your chances in court, although, this option will be long and drawn out, and as we understand it, previous ownership has no funds if the lawsuit succeeds. We have also been told that IFS is filing bankruptcy. With option 1 at least you are guaranteed to get something for what is owed to you.

3. Choose not to play with us on principle. Choose not to get involved in a drawn out lawsuit. Just chalk it up to a loss and do nothing. Again, with option 1, at least you are playing fantasy football.

Please follow this link to accept or decline option 1. If you accept, your credits will be available immediately. www.affl.com/prizes

If, prior to February, you had elected to take credit for you prize winnings, that credit is still active. However, you will still need to accept option 1. If that gives you additional credit, your original discount code will be updated.

We hope that you will choose to play with us. Although we cannot prove ourselves to you in advance, as we had hoped, we will certainly do so in the future.

We hope to have the site up and running at 100% in the next few days. Because we never really considered this option until the last few days, there are some things that will need a little time to happen. We will need to have prize winnings placed in your respective accounts soon. Once they are in your accounts, you can choose to use them this year or in future years.

We have also decided to cancel the platinum league for this year only. Although we are reluctant to do so, there is just not enough time to get enough participants in order to make the platinum league competitive. For our platinum players, please consider our gold contest, it costs only $600 to enter, $750 less than the platinum contest and the grand prize is only $15,000 less.

Also, due to time constraints, drafts on August 16th and 17th will be cancelled.

Emails containing further information will be sent out in the future. We know there may be some of you that are unhappy with this resolution and we want you to know that we are as well. We certainly did not envision this when we started, but as I said earlier, this is the only feasible option we have left.

Wade J. Golab 773-908-0246

Robert J. Smolarczyk 773-842-5954
The above statement is also BS.They sent this same email to everyone at the same time.

They are using it to set your mind at ease and convince you to "go with the crowd" you got this email the same time everyone else did so there is no way of them knowing that 90% have already agreed.

 
An attorney has already said that if Neil gets convicted of a crime, that his financial losses cannot be discharged by bankruptcy, so I do not think they are being upfront about the chances of collection. Not to mention doing what is right and correct. Considering Neil ran a mid season contest while the company was insolvent, as well as potentially paid '06 winners with '07 entry fees, a misrepresentation charge is a slam-dunk and outright fraud is probably an easy conviction, too. I wouldn't be too worried about option #2, except for the effort involved in filing a complaint with one's own local law enforcement. From what I understand, that is the first step - go to your own local Police Station and file a formal complaint. It will take one hour of one's time and then your police department will contact law enforcement in Neil's jurisdiction for prosecution and it will go from there. I would not even bother with civil court, go the criminal route and let the justice system do the collection work for you.

The people that won $75,000 and $100,000 receive little consolation from this "offer". I hope the guy that won $75,000 took his family to Disneyworld and is doing well.

 
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hey all i just found this website yesterday,

i have played in the affl for the past 2 years, this crap of neil not paying is mind blowing

the first year i bought 3 teams, didnt win squat

last year i was in 4 different teams, i did manage to place and thought i was going to receive some $$, boy was i wrong.

i invested alot of time and money into the "sinking ship", and now i'm just pi##$% off and very bitter. i hope this schmuck neil gets thrown into prison for a long time and gets bung holed every day. :thumbup:

 
i also received the latest e-mail

i am curious though, does anyone think neil could be lurking in this message board under an alias

the reason i say this is because i responded to an earlier message about the winners getting together for a lawsuit, i sent an email to the address listed

now on sunday i get an email from "golab" saying.......well..the same bs we've been fed for the last 8 months

 
The Ghost of Common said:
beachbum said:
LATEST EMAIL:

Let us begin by saying thank you for the patience that you have shown throughout this ordeal.

The unfortunate events that have darkened the name of the AFFL have proved too much to overcome. When we started this venture back in March we envisioned a resurrection of the AFFL name. We wanted to come in, make things right, and then move forward. We knew that to keep the AFFL alive would mean paying out all the 2007 prizes as well as pre-securing 2008 prizes. We wanted to prove to the AFFL customers, and the fantasy community, that we would not make the same mistakes that previous ownership did. We wanted to prove to them that we were guys that could be trusted. Unfortunately, mostly due to timing and the economy, we were unable to raise the substantial amount of money it would require to do so. So now what?

There are a lot of people out there that love to play fantasy football and the AFFL provided a great place to do it. In the past few months we have spoken with a lot of customers and have had positive feedback about the structure of the contest. To date, the AFFL has reached almost $60,000 in signups for the upcoming season, all without a resolution to the 2007 problems being announced. People want to play.

We love fantasy football just like you guys. We've been playing for a long time and have wanted to start a contest for a while. We've put a lot of time and money into this and do not want to give up. We're out of ideas, and out of ways to cut costs. This is what we have left.

We are no longer going to try to fix someone else's mistakes and problems. We also do not want to have to pay for someone else's mistakes and problems. We are upfront and honest guys that want to put a great contest out there for the fantasy football community. Therefore, we're going to take the only option left for us at this time. We are going to start a new contest. We will use the same AFFL software and website, and change the name of the contest in the future. The contest will be run in the exact same fashion as the AFFL. All previously posted prizes and rules will not change. As 2007 prize winners ourselves, we really wanted to make things right and payout 2007 winners. As we stated earlier, we are sad to say that with only a few weeks left until the season starts that's going to be impossible. We are offering the following three choices for 2007 prize winners:

1. We will be honoring any 2007 AFFL prize credits that you want to roll over. Of the prize winners that we have spoken to, almost 90% were willing to roll over. If you want to put this debacle behind you, move on, and just play fantasy football again, then roll over and play in the same contest you won in last year. We are honest guys and will make timely payouts. Roll over amounts, up to $10,000, will never expire and will be able to be used over multiple years. We will personally contact prizes winners over $10,000 and speak to them personally about their options.

If you choose this option, you will have to agree to absolve International Fantasy Sports and the AFFL of any 2007 prize liability. If you decline this option, please note that Chicago Fantasy Sports will not be assuming any liability for 2007 prize payouts from International Fantasy Sports.

2. Take your chances in court, although, this option will be long and drawn out, and as we understand it, previous ownership has no funds if the lawsuit succeeds. We have also been told that IFS is filing bankruptcy. With option 1 at least you are guaranteed to get something for what is owed to you.

3. Choose not to play with us on principle. Choose not to get involved in a drawn out lawsuit. Just chalk it up to a loss and do nothing. Again, with option 1, at least you are playing fantasy football.

Please follow this link to accept or decline option 1. If you accept, your credits will be available immediately. www.affl.com/prizes

If, prior to February, you had elected to take credit for you prize winnings, that credit is still active. However, you will still need to accept option 1. If that gives you additional credit, your original discount code will be updated.

We hope that you will choose to play with us. Although we cannot prove ourselves to you in advance, as we had hoped, we will certainly do so in the future.

We hope to have the site up and running at 100% in the next few days. Because we never really considered this option until the last few days, there are some things that will need a little time to happen. We will need to have prize winnings placed in your respective accounts soon. Once they are in your accounts, you can choose to use them this year or in future years.

We have also decided to cancel the platinum league for this year only. Although we are reluctant to do so, there is just not enough time to get enough participants in order to make the platinum league competitive. For our platinum players, please consider our gold contest, it costs only $600 to enter, $750 less than the platinum contest and the grand prize is only $15,000 less.

Also, due to time constraints, drafts on August 16th and 17th will be cancelled.

Emails containing further information will be sent out in the future. We know there may be some of you that are unhappy with this resolution and we want you to know that we are as well. We certainly did not envision this when we started, but as I said earlier, this is the only feasible option we have left.

Wade J. Golab 773-908-0246

Robert J. Smolarczyk 773-842-5954
The above statement is also BS.They sent this same email to everyone at the same time.

They are using it to set your mind at ease and convince you to "go with the crowd" you got this email the same time everyone else did so there is no way of them knowing that 90% have already agreed.
There are tons of BS in that email.I can't believe people are signing up for AFFL again.

 
So they are moving on and starting an new contest, that has nothing to do with the AFFL or International Fantasy Sports (the company Neil used to run AFFL), however, if you want to play in this new, "clean" contest, you need to forgive the AFFL for not paying?

Why do they care what happens to Neil if they are moving on? We agree not to hold AFFL liable for anything, Chicago Fantasy Sports buys the AFFL software (they said in the email that's what they are going to use) for X amount of dollars, and Neil gets to keep that money.

I wouldn't pay 2 cents to play in the AFFL, or sorry, the league formerly known as the AFFL.

 
So they are moving on and starting an new contest, that has nothing to do with the AFFL or International Fantasy Sports (the company Neil used to run AFFL), however, if you want to play in this new, "clean" contest, you need to forgive the AFFL for not paying?

Why do they care what happens to Neil if they are moving on? We agree not to hold AFFL liable for anything, Chicago Fantasy Sports buys the AFFL software (they said in the email that's what they are going to use) for X amount of dollars, and Neil gets to keep that money.

I wouldn't pay 2 cents to play in the AFFL, or sorry, the league formerly known as the AFFL.
Good question
 
So they are moving on and starting an new contest, that has nothing to do with the AFFL or International Fantasy Sports (the company Neil used to run AFFL), however, if you want to play in this new, "clean" contest, you need to forgive the AFFL for not paying?

Why do they care what happens to Neil if they are moving on? We agree not to hold AFFL liable for anything, Chicago Fantasy Sports buys the AFFL software (they said in the email that's what they are going to use) for X amount of dollars, and Neil gets to keep that money.

I wouldn't pay 2 cents to play in the AFFL, or sorry, the league formerly known as the AFFL.
Good question
Right -the entire email/situation is shady.

I hope to god Softballguy is still doing something about pursuing Neil criminally - for anyone who has just let him off the hook, shame on you.

Neil is tied in or has something to do with these "new investors" I guarantee you that now.

These guys didn't just contact Neil and Neil replied with "ok guys I'm all done with AFFL, it's ALL yours" Neil is behind the scenes here. Absolutely behind the scenes. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing isn't contrived. If it's not contrived, you aren't getting the whole story from these 2 new "investors"

 
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I know I will catch some flack for this :blackdot: but I used my winnings as credits for this year! I believe the 2007 winnings are a lost cause. That being said, I will use last years winnings to play this year...granted they are nowhere near the amount some of the other players won last year!

 
anyone who pays the new league any money whatsoever deserves to be screwed

this thread is most likely filled with dummy posts from the operators of the scheme

DONT BE FOOLED AGAIN!!! WAKE UP!!!!

 
So they are moving on and starting an new contest, that has nothing to do with the AFFL or International Fantasy Sports (the company Neil used to run AFFL), however, if you want to play in this new, "clean" contest, you need to forgive the AFFL for not paying?

Why do they care what happens to Neil if they are moving on? We agree not to hold AFFL liable for anything, Chicago Fantasy Sports buys the AFFL software (they said in the email that's what they are going to use) for X amount of dollars, and Neil gets to keep that money.

I wouldn't pay 2 cents to play in the AFFL, or sorry, the league formerly known as the AFFL.
Good question
Right -the entire email/situation is shady.

I hope to god Softballguy is still doing something about pursuing Neil criminally - for anyone who has just let him off the hook, shame on you.

Neil is tied in or has something to do with these "new investors" I guarantee you that now.

These guys didn't just contact Neil and Neil replied with "ok guys I'm all done with AFFL, it's ALL yours" Neil is behind the scenes here. Absolutely behind the scenes. I wouldn't be surprised if this whole thing isn't contrived. If it's not contrived, you aren't getting the whole story from these 2 new "investors"
:popcorn: Something is fishy with the new owners for sure. If they bought the company, then they're responsible for the 2007 prizes whether or not they feel like it's fair. When you purchase a company, you get the assets and the liabilities (Which, conversely, would've made AFFL as a whole company worthless). If they bought the software, they could do what they propose in the last update except they'd have no reason to try to indemnify Neil and take on more liabilities by providing tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in credits at their new company. Their email reeks of dishonesty and Neil still being involved and trying to save his hide. Another point of note is that if Neil just sold the software, it would be worth a bit of money (nowhere near where he valued it, but it's a number greater than zero) and if that's the case I'd like to know where that money went. If he sold the software to the new owners for nothing and/or used the cash from the sale of the software for personal expenses, I think the Bankruptcy court might have issue with that.

There is no excuse now for people affected to not contact a law enforcement agency. I wouldn't trust Neil or these new owners because their actions just plain don't make sense.

 
It sounds like the new owners have purchased some or all of the assets of the AFFL (software, email lists, etc.) and have excluded from the purchase any of the liabilities of the AFFL (which you can do as part of an asset purchase as opposed to a purchase of the actual company). As all or part of the purchase price, it sounds like the new company is required to extend to the 2007 prize winners a credit in the amount of the winnings in exchange for a release of the new and old company.

 
I hate to be rude, but you folks that sat back and waited on this scam just helped Neil get out from underneath this mess. If someone had filed charges he would not have been able to sell off the software. You have essentially enabled this ponzi scheme to continue. Obviously part of the purchase agreement was for the new owners to include a waiver clause holding Neil harmless. The goal here is to reduce his liability by as much as possible. They'll try to settle with the rest of the folks for pennies on the dollar. These new guys really have some balls to do neil's bidding and basically sending you an e-mail with threats about lawsuits being a lost cause.

 
You think Bass? What benefit would there have been to filing an action any earlier than now (for most of the winners that is)? If any of the big-time winners were to have filed earlier or if enough of the smaller-time winners were to have filed, the AFFL would already be in bankruptcy and the winners would be getting...pennies on the dollar. Yes, the winners could have stopped a sale of the software, but for all but the grand-prize winners, what would that have accomplished? It would allow the bankruptcy trustee to take control of the software, sell it for some small amount, and then pay the winners and other creditors...pennies on the dollar.

Posters here have pointed to the one claim threatened in February by a $150 winner and his or her success as a “what could have been” for others. But I really don’t think Neil would have paid off claims if $50,000 worth of claims were threatened at that time as he would not have had any incentive (nor the funds) to do so.

For many of the small-time winners (of which I am one in the tune of $450), there may now be a chance to actually salvage some benefit for their 2007 “winnings” with this new development. If (and absent more info, that is a big IF) this new operation is legit and the 2008 prizes are put in escrow, then small-time winners at least get credit to play for a new prize and get something for their winnings from 2007. On the other hand, if the new operation is not legit and also folds come 2009, then the small-time winners get screwed (since they released the IFS from any claims they may have had in bankruptcy). In any case, the small timers would have gotten so little in bankruptcy anyways that the screwing would be more a screwing in principle then it would be a monetary one.

As for the grand prize winners, well, maybe you’re right in the sense that if the software had actual monetary value, then the grand prize winners lost out on the only asset that had any value (unless the bankruptcy court were to void the sale of the software as not being a sale for fair value or something). But again, we are likely talking a recovery of pennies on the dollar had they filed earlier, so it looks like the grand prize winners were screwed no matter what they did. But who knows, perhaps they are being offered by CFS (as part of the software purchase) a sum of cash (maybe $10,000) plus a $10,000 credit towards future games. If thats the case, then they are probably better off now then they would have been if they had filed earlier.

Long way of saying that I think we have too little info to know whether filing in February would have been any better than filing now or accepting whats being offered.

 
Even if I won only $100 and knew for a fact that I wouldn't get any of it back, I would still sue ASAP to keep it from happening to anyone else. The fact that there even is a 2008 contest without paying the 07 winners FIRST is an egregious display of unethical behavior.

 
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Even if I won only $100 and knew for a fact that I wouldn't get any of it back, I would still sue ASAP to keep it from happening to anyone else. The fact that there even is a 2008 contest without paying the 07 winners FIRST is an egregious display of unethical behavior.
:( :goodposting: :goodposting: At this point the FF community has been damaged by the AFFL and even if you are owed a small amount you need to file your lawsuit.The people that signed up for 2008 need their head examined.
 
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?

 
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Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.



 
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

Seriously. Can't believe anyone is on the side of AFFL in this.Almost as much as I can't believe Neil isn't in jail yet.

If anyone is thinking of pursuing criminal charges and hasn't yet for whatever reason, please PM me for information on how to make it a fruitful attempt (I've been researching what transpired here out of sheer curiosity for 4 months now and have found some valuable info)

 
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

No alias Perry. Just someone that reads the boards often but does not post. It just got a little bothersome to keep checking this topic for info on this issue only to keep seeing post after post railing on the "winners" for not suing, so I wanted to express the viewpoint of a so-called winner. I also found it interesting that the posters calling for a lawsuit are the ones that don't have any money in the game, while there are many winners that have thus far elected either to hold off for now or not sue at all. Few have considered that perhaps that when you actually have something to lose (i.e., the 2007 winners that would have to come out of pocket in legal fees), that you may actually look at things differently. For me personally, I feel like an idiot for entering into a contest where Gold and Platinum events were paying 100% and up and not thinking twice about the risk of the company not paying out. I kind of chalked the lost $450 as a lesson learned and am fortunate enough to only have invested $150 to play in the silver contest. I am not about to get deeper into this in legal fees by suing (which would far exceed my lost winnings).

That said, I am not trying to discourage others from suing (although I realize that by expressing a viewpoint and presenting the facts in this manner, that could be the effect). Personally, I would like to see Softball follow through with his posts and maybe get a class action fraud action going, because what Neil did is beyond just a bad business practice.

I would just rather spend my time playing in more fantasy football leagues then personally getting caught up in a lawsuit. Now if I were one of the grand prize winners, I would probably be all over this. I say "probably" because I am not a grand prize winner and do not know what it would be like to be one, so I cannot pass judgment on one regarding what path they ultimately choose.

 
Ernol said:
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer. How about it guys?
Criminal compliant down?
 
The Ghost of Common said:
perry147 said:
Ernol said:
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

Seriously. Can't believe anyone is on the side of AFFL in this.

Almost as much as I can't believe Neil isn't in jail yet.

If anyone is thinking of pursuing criminal charges and hasn't yet for whatever reason, please PM me for information on how to make it a fruitful attempt (I've been researching what transpired here out of sheer curiosity for 4 months now and have found some valuable info)
Doesn't someone need to pursue some kind of legal action against him before criminal charges can be filed?
 
The Ghost of Common said:
perry147 said:
Ernol said:
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

Seriously. Can't believe anyone is on the side of AFFL in this.

Almost as much as I can't believe Neil isn't in jail yet.

If anyone is thinking of pursuing criminal charges and hasn't yet for whatever reason, please PM me for information on how to make it a fruitful attempt (I've been researching what transpired here out of sheer curiosity for 4 months now and have found some valuable info)
Doesn't someone need to pursue some kind of legal action against him before criminal charges can be filed?
Go rob your local bank and see if the cops wait for someone to start legal action before throwing your ### in the clink.
 
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

Seriously. Can't believe anyone is on the side of AFFL in this.

Almost as much as I can't believe Neil isn't in jail yet.

If anyone is thinking of pursuing criminal charges and hasn't yet for whatever reason, please PM me for information on how to make it a fruitful attempt (I've been researching what transpired here out of sheer curiosity for 4 months now and have found some valuable info)
Doesn't someone need to pursue some kind of legal action against him before criminal charges can be filed?
Go rob your local bank and see if the cops wait for someone to start legal action before throwing your ### in the clink.
Do you really think your analogy works here?Go rob a bank and the bank is calling the cops immediately. Call the cops because of an internet scam and they ain't putting an APB out on the guy to take him dead or alive. Someone wants to get Neil they need to talk to a lawyer and go through the proper channels.

 
Since winners have already lost their winnings and are probably going to get little to nothing anyway in a lawsuit, it is not exactly fair to require that THEY now carry the time and economic burden of a lawsuit. If this is about principle rather than an actual recovery, perhaps it would be more appropriate for the outsiders calling for a lawsuit to agree to cover the legal costs in the interest of the FF community.

It is all too easy for Zadok and Perry and others to say that the 2007 winners should sue, but does anyone really believe that they would have done anything different had they "won". Of course, they could prove me wrong by offering to cover the legal fees of one of the winners. I'm sure there is a prize winner out there that would accept that offer.

How about it guys?
Need as alias check aisle 3.Ernol

Joined: 15-June 06

Has never started a topic and has 10 post of which all but one in this thread.

Seriously. Can't believe anyone is on the side of AFFL in this.

Almost as much as I can't believe Neil isn't in jail yet.

If anyone is thinking of pursuing criminal charges and hasn't yet for whatever reason, please PM me for information on how to make it a fruitful attempt (I've been researching what transpired here out of sheer curiosity for 4 months now and have found some valuable info)
Doesn't someone need to pursue some kind of legal action against him before criminal charges can be filed?
Go rob your local bank and see if the cops wait for someone to start legal action before throwing your ### in the clink.
Do you really think your analogy works here?Go rob a bank and the bank is calling the cops immediately. Call the cops because of an internet scam and they ain't putting an APB out on the guy to take him dead or alive. Someone wants to get Neil they need to talk to a lawyer and go through the proper channels.
The point of the post is that the actions taken by AFFL broke the law the same as the bank robber. The severity of how law enforcement takes action is another issue entirely and it should not negate the fact that AFFL was a scam.
 
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***

huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :shrug:

 
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :rant:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :rant:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
Yes I know that..but web sites place ads on their sites and for every click to that ad you make money!Take You-Tube for example..one video can get 2 millions hits..so if 200k of the 2 million clicked on a ad thereand its at 10 cent a click...thats $20,000 !
 
Last edited by a moderator:
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :rolleyes:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
Yes I know that..but web sites place ads on their sites and for every click to that ad you make money!Take You-Tube for example..one video can get 2 millions hits..so if 200k of the 2 million clicked on a ad thereand its at 10 cent a click...thats $20,000 !
 
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :football:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
Yes I know that..but web sites place ads on their sites and for every click to that ad you make money!Take You-Tube for example..one video can get 2 millions hits..so if 200k of the 2 million clicked on a ad thereand its at 10 cent a click...thats $20,000 !
ABC..I can see your new to this site...but you forgot to put in what you wanted to say!
 
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :mellow:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
Yes I know that..but web sites place ads on their sites and for every click to that ad you make money!Take You-Tube for example..one video can get 2 millions hits..so if 200k of the 2 million clicked on a ad thereand its at 10 cent a click...thats $20,000 !
How much money do you think a website like AFFL make off of click ads? Now compare that to the advertising costs of putting an ad in any of the following publications: FBG Draft Guide, Fantasy Guru, Sportsline, ESPN, Lindy's or any of the other major fantasy magizines in the market today?Advertsing costs money for a website like AFFL because the traffic will not generate enough hits to cover one print ad let alone multiple ones.YouTube meanwhile has millions of people going to its site daily and advertisers know that this is prime web advertising space and as such as willing to pay money in order to get their ads in front of that many people a day.
 
hellz_fireflies said:
***I have yet to take a salary from IFS in 5 years. Most of the money was spent in programmer expenses, contract employee expenses, server costs, search engine optimization, and advertising.***huh??? Advertising as a expense??? Think this site set up wrong! Advertising is suppose to be a income with these kinds of sites! :mellow:
Advertising= Ads in magazines.
Yes I know that..but web sites place ads on their sites and for every click to that ad you make money!Take You-Tube for example..one video can get 2 millions hits..so if 200k of the 2 million clicked on a ad thereand its at 10 cent a click...thats $20,000 !
How much money do you think a website like AFFL make off of click ads? Now compare that to the advertising costs of putting an ad in any of the following publications: FBG Draft Guide, Fantasy Guru, Sportsline, ESPN, Lindy's or any of the other major fantasy magizines in the market today?Advertsing costs money for a website like AFFL because the traffic will not generate enough hits to cover one print ad let alone multiple ones.YouTube meanwhile has millions of people going to its site daily and advertisers know that this is prime web advertising space and as such as willing to pay money in order to get their ads in front of that many people a day.
Yes a fact..thats my whole point..this AFFL.com has the slighest idea what the hell they were doing..proof is here.
 
Haven't checked this thread in a while but I am shocked - how this thread is still buried in this ghost town of a forum is shameful - this should be pinned in the Shark Pool so no one gets robbed again by this "new company" -

 
So it looks like they've removed the platinum contest and are going forward with the GOLD and SILVER... the message boards still are not up but the first drafts of the year begin in less than a week

I have a question: is anyone signed up for one or more of these drafts? If so, can you access your account? My understanding is that once you sign up you have a user-name and password that takes you to your team(s). For anyone that is signed up, can you access your teams at this point? Have you spoken with the new owners? Are the putting the money in escrow?

 
Looks like the contest is going forward; draft slots have been awarded to teams and owners are able to access their team pages... message boards still aren't operational but drafts are scheduled to begin this week; anyone in any of these drafts?

 

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