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AFFL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter FantasyTrader
- Start date
We ran ads in the past because they bought advertising from us and we assumed they would pay their winners in full.They paid us for the ads.When they didn't pay their winners, we elected not to take advertising from them for the next years as we felt it wasn't something we could promote to our readers. You obviously never know for sure if a company will stay in business or not. But if you have a pretty good idea they're not doing what you think they should be doing (and there isn't much more important for a contest than paying past winners) you have to make a call on accepting advertising.I don't hold any ill will against the AFFL. I truly hope they pay all the people they owe and they can be successful. I think all that is pretty clear.J
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And FWIW, this is exactly the kind of thing I was talking about when I said I thought league talk clutters the Shark Pool. I hope we don't have a lot of this.
J
J
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Fine. Did you post and send out an email and another email that AFFL hasn't paid out to there winners? If yes, I never received one. That I think would have helped me in my decision on if I should be playing in AFFL. I never saw anything that AFFL wasn't paying out. Joe you failed your customs on that big time. Why wasn't any emails sent out about AFFL not paying out? I was only able to join one Contest this year, maybe I would have played in yours. Maybe I made a poor choose. Again only time will tell. Of course I still have to win to get paid.
CalBear
Footballguy
In other news, Maroney=Speed is placing a large investment with Bernie Madoff, and buying a house in Detroit with 110% financing from IndyMac.
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Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
It's GMAC, but everything is correct.
ditka85
Footballguy
Anyone have an extra Maroney=Speed decoder ring? Mine exploded opening this thread.Fine. Did you post and send out an email and another email that AFFL hasn't paid out to there winners? If yes, I never received one. That I think would have helped me in my decision on if I should be playing in AFFL. I never saw anything that AFFL wasn't paying out. Joe you failed your customs on that big time. Why wasn't any emails sent out about AFFL not paying out? I was only able to join one Contest this year, maybe I would have played in yours. Maybe I made a poor choose. Again only time will tell. Of course I still have to win to get paid.
I thought we had run ads in the past before they had trouble. I could well be wrong there. I know for sure we declined to run ads for them once they failed to pay out prizes to their winners.J
Just like to add that my friend, my brother and I were all shocked when we heard of the winner(s?) not being paid. I was in 3 of these leagues and I did not win any money 
but my friend was owed a small amount. He spoke to Bob on the phone numerous times after the season until he finally got his check a month or two later than promised.
Prior to the season starting, Bob was very helpful in answering our questions about how the leagues were run. Although, it became apparent that they were in over their heads.
Their site crashed week one of the season and continuously throughout the year. Also, the layout of the site was not user friendly...Downright terrible if you ask me.
I wonder where the money went?
but my friend was owed a small amount. He spoke to Bob on the phone numerous times after the season until he finally got his check a month or two later than promised.Prior to the season starting, Bob was very helpful in answering our questions about how the leagues were run. Although, it became apparent that they were in over their heads.
Their site crashed week one of the season and continuously throughout the year. Also, the layout of the site was not user friendly...Downright terrible if you ask me.
I wonder where the money went?
David Dodds
Administrator
This is how it went. We never took ads from AFFL. We did take Fantasy Jungle ads (a company now defunct), but they paid the year we accepted their ads. Once AFFL did not pay (even with new ownership), Joe and I opted to pass on their advertising dollars. It seemed silly to me that someone would knowingly buy a company that had defrauded the people the year before. It smelled fishy to us so we passed. As for people suggesting we warn others about "bad risks", I think that's impossible to do. I don't know these people or their finances. I do know though that we scrutinize stuff real closely here before taking ad dollars.David
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
Sometimes I see posters tripping over themselves to defend FBG from even the slightest perceived criticism, even if that criticism is fair. But I feel I have to say something, as an objective person who has never participated in the games being discussed in this thread.
FBG has, in my opinion, gone above and beyond what a company *should* do if they took ads from AFFL (which they apparently didn't even do). I've been following this AFFL saga for months, and 100 percent of the information I've received-- every single iota of information-- has come from this message board. If not for this board, I wouldn't have a clue as to what had happened. FBG owners have chimed in, posters have chimed in...everyone has been able to update the threads with info so people would know what was going on.
Yeah, I like FBG for the fantasy football information that helps me during the season. But this is also important-- the community aspect of the forum where people actually look out for each other, even if they know nothing about the other person except their shared passion for this hobby. This forum is more dangerous to AFFL than a news report, because the target market comes here all the time. This is the place where bad publicity hurts. This is the place where you can get a heads up as to what is legit and what isn't.
And that reflects well upon the owners. You can't blame them for not doing more to bring this to light. If you come here semi-regularly, you've seen these threads. They're bumped up frequently. Your best bet is to come here more often, really. It's worth your time for a variety of reasons, including the ones discussed in this thread.
FBG has, in my opinion, gone above and beyond what a company *should* do if they took ads from AFFL (which they apparently didn't even do). I've been following this AFFL saga for months, and 100 percent of the information I've received-- every single iota of information-- has come from this message board. If not for this board, I wouldn't have a clue as to what had happened. FBG owners have chimed in, posters have chimed in...everyone has been able to update the threads with info so people would know what was going on.
Yeah, I like FBG for the fantasy football information that helps me during the season. But this is also important-- the community aspect of the forum where people actually look out for each other, even if they know nothing about the other person except their shared passion for this hobby. This forum is more dangerous to AFFL than a news report, because the target market comes here all the time. This is the place where bad publicity hurts. This is the place where you can get a heads up as to what is legit and what isn't.
And that reflects well upon the owners. You can't blame them for not doing more to bring this to light. If you come here semi-regularly, you've seen these threads. They're bumped up frequently. Your best bet is to come here more often, really. It's worth your time for a variety of reasons, including the ones discussed in this thread.
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at them saying they took thae message board down due to a software change.
purestrength
Footballguy
Yeah, I saw that and got a kick out of it too.How stupid do they think FF players are?at them saying they took thae message board down due to a software change.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
http://www.affl.com/
http://www.affl.com/draft_schedule.asp
Unreal. These guys serious? Quite ironic they don't list the 2009 winners in their 'Previous Winners' section....
Yeah, these guys are ones I'd trust giving my CC info to. These guys are so desperate at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.
http://www.affl.com/draft_schedule.asp
Unreal. These guys serious? Quite ironic they don't list the 2009 winners in their 'Previous Winners' section....
Yeah, these guys are ones I'd trust giving my CC info to. These guys are so desperate at this point, I wouldn't put it past them.
What are you talking about? Their message boards are still available right here. And by "message boards", of course, I mean a picture of a squirrel running in a hamster wheel housed in a computer monitor. I mean, message board, squirrel in hamster wheel in PC monitor... what's the difference, really?
I am SHOCKED that they let the message boards stay up as long they did. No self respecting con men would have allowed that to happen. They were getting KILLED on those boards!I am still owed a small amount from 2009. The good news (maybe?) is that their lines of communications must be open to entice more suckers players. I was able to contact them by both phone and e-mail regarding my money.at them saying they took thae message board down due to a software change.
For what its worth, I don't think they started the league with the intention to defraud. I don't think they took the money but the money was never there in the first place. So many people used credits from previous years that there was not enough money to pay the winners. However, they definitely could have handled it better as far as communication and opening up 2010 before addressing 2009 payments is highly suspect.
The e-mail they sent did say that the entire 2010 prize pool will be escrowed. Of course the official rules mention nothing of an escrow.
Giants4Life
Footballguy
I wrote to them, this was there reply
Hey,
I don't remember ever talking to you so I'm not sure what you have heard. Here's a brief explanation. We've paid out over 200 prize winners in full. We sent the rest either 1/2 of their winnings or 1/4 of their winnings. The grand prize winners we have sent a portion of their winnings. We plan on paying everyone in full. The majority of the few people that we still owe money to understand the situation and are working with us. A few are upset, which is understandable, and have begun a crusade to ruin our name. The biggest reason we could not make full payments are because of 2007 credits that we have been accepting which we had no responsibility to do. The previous owner of this contest did not pay anyone any money in 2007. We took over and did the right thing (which is all we've done and continue to try and do) and gave those prize winners credits to use in the future. We have temporarily suspended those credits for this season. We will also be escrowing 2010 prizes. Any and all profit will go directly to 2009 prize winners. We have put alot of our own money into this contest to cover the shortages in 2008 and 2009 and ran out of money to put in. As I have said we still plan on paying the rest of the money but need to stay in business to do so. If you read anything on one of our competitors sites I would imagine that it would paint us in a negative light. As far as why you should join? You should join if you want to play fantasy football, with a chance to win great prizes. 2010 will be escrowed and 2009 winners will be paid in full. They haven't yet but we are not running or closing shop as previous contests have done. There have been contests that have closed and not paid anyone. Thats not what we are doing. Call me if you want more in depth answers.
Hey,
I don't remember ever talking to you so I'm not sure what you have heard. Here's a brief explanation. We've paid out over 200 prize winners in full. We sent the rest either 1/2 of their winnings or 1/4 of their winnings. The grand prize winners we have sent a portion of their winnings. We plan on paying everyone in full. The majority of the few people that we still owe money to understand the situation and are working with us. A few are upset, which is understandable, and have begun a crusade to ruin our name. The biggest reason we could not make full payments are because of 2007 credits that we have been accepting which we had no responsibility to do. The previous owner of this contest did not pay anyone any money in 2007. We took over and did the right thing (which is all we've done and continue to try and do) and gave those prize winners credits to use in the future. We have temporarily suspended those credits for this season. We will also be escrowing 2010 prizes. Any and all profit will go directly to 2009 prize winners. We have put alot of our own money into this contest to cover the shortages in 2008 and 2009 and ran out of money to put in. As I have said we still plan on paying the rest of the money but need to stay in business to do so. If you read anything on one of our competitors sites I would imagine that it would paint us in a negative light. As far as why you should join? You should join if you want to play fantasy football, with a chance to win great prizes. 2010 will be escrowed and 2009 winners will be paid in full. They haven't yet but we are not running or closing shop as previous contests have done. There have been contests that have closed and not paid anyone. Thats not what we are doing. Call me if you want more in depth answers.
purestrength
Footballguy
Their reply was better than I expected, but why didn't they repond to the people bashing them on their own message board?
The feeling I got was they had something to hide.
The feeling I got was they had something to hide.
Don Quixote
Footballguy
I think they do. It reads like the 2010 winners have a better shot at getting paid than the 2009 winners (since 2009 winners only get paid if still have profit after paying the 2010 winners). I would have thought some version of an "earlier in time rule" would prevail.
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David Dodds
Administrator
Who buys a company that defrauded the 2007 winners and keeps that name?
They bought that company and gave those credits. This is their doing. They wanted the AFFL name, mailing list, search engine exposure, etc. Most smart business people would have just looked to purchase the software and staked their own claim to a new game going forward. They chose to keep the AFFL brand.
They paid out winners in 2008, but NOW this 2007 credits issue is the reason they can't pay people in 2009? Sorry I am not buying it.
I will state this just as I did with the people responsible for the FFOC debacle. At what point did the contest operators KNOW there wasn't enough money to pay people? To do nothing at that point is FRAUD. Lower the prize pools, cancel the contest...but do something.
Fast-forwarding to 2010 and this group is taking money to run contests without paying the 2009 winners in full. Tell me how that is not a ponzi-scheme and/or fraud.
These types of situations are the reason Joe and I decided to enter with a lower-end high-stakes game. I don't care to ever promote companies unwilling to PROTECT THEIR PRIZE POOLS.
I am playing in the FFPC this year only. They protect their prize pool. I don't care about history of paying, too big to fail or all the other things I have heard stated in this space. As a player, show me you get it as a contest operator and SECURE THE PRIZE MONEY.
That can be in an Escrow account, with a company like Leaguesafe, etc. Companies unwilling to do this have something to hide in my opinion (especially with CD interest rates at an all-time low).
They bought that company and gave those credits. This is their doing. They wanted the AFFL name, mailing list, search engine exposure, etc. Most smart business people would have just looked to purchase the software and staked their own claim to a new game going forward. They chose to keep the AFFL brand.
They paid out winners in 2008, but NOW this 2007 credits issue is the reason they can't pay people in 2009? Sorry I am not buying it.
I will state this just as I did with the people responsible for the FFOC debacle. At what point did the contest operators KNOW there wasn't enough money to pay people? To do nothing at that point is FRAUD. Lower the prize pools, cancel the contest...but do something.
Fast-forwarding to 2010 and this group is taking money to run contests without paying the 2009 winners in full. Tell me how that is not a ponzi-scheme and/or fraud.
These types of situations are the reason Joe and I decided to enter with a lower-end high-stakes game. I don't care to ever promote companies unwilling to PROTECT THEIR PRIZE POOLS.
I am playing in the FFPC this year only. They protect their prize pool. I don't care about history of paying, too big to fail or all the other things I have heard stated in this space. As a player, show me you get it as a contest operator and SECURE THE PRIZE MONEY.
That can be in an Escrow account, with a company like Leaguesafe, etc. Companies unwilling to do this have something to hide in my opinion (especially with CD interest rates at an all-time low).
Team Legacy
Footballguy
Thanks for this thread Joe and David. I can only hope that players choose to stay informed during situations such as these and spread what they know. Those of us at the FPA are committed to transparency in this industry. I hope we don't have another AFFL but as recent history has shown, it's happened far too often for all our tastes. There has been a ton of information on the industry posted over at our site this past summer. I suggest everyone review the beta blog we put up from beginning to end. The hours put into research this summer was extensive and I think everyone will find it valuable. We'll add to is as news becomes available.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
I just call it has I see it.Thanks Maroney.
Is the lawsuit still pending? Any communication from them regarding your prize money? I saw they had taken your name off the website as one of the winners.
Warrior
Footballguy
And has do you see it?I just call it has I see it.
Cassius
Footballguy
You might be getting a few nickels courtesy of Maroney=Speed, so you can shoot him a thank via PM.
buck naked
Footballguy
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Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
'buck naked',Any update? Or is the AFFL owners still living it up with your clients money?
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Giants4Life
Footballguy
I find it funny they are running a contest where you can get a Free Iron Man team to win money. Why not use the money from those free leagues to give to the people who paid and won?
There's no excuses whatsoever. Everyone should have been paid
There's no excuses whatsoever. Everyone should have been paid
buck naked
Footballguy
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Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
Something like free entry for the next 20 years? That would be great if you could pull that off.We are determining right now whether we can or will work something out with them. That is all I want to say at the moment.'buck naked',Any update? Or is the AFFL owners still living it up with your clients money?
So you had enough and just want to cut your losses here? that right?
How would that be great? This whole ordeal started in the first place when AFFL paid people with free entries instead of actual money.Something like free entry for the next 20 years? That would be great if you could pull that off.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
So you would rather receive nothing at all or play for free for the next 20 years with the chance of cashing big? I'll take the 20 years and be happy I got something.How would that be great? This whole ordeal started in the first place when AFFL paid people with free entries instead of actual money.Something like free entry for the next 20 years? That would be great if you could pull that off.
CalBear
Footballguy
Do you really think these scumbags will run contests, and pay out, for the next 20 years?I'd rather ruin the lives of these unethical douchebags than endorse their behavior by continuing to play in their leagues.So you would rather receive nothing at all or play for free for the next 20 years with the chance of cashing big? I'll take the 20 years and be happy I got something.How would that be great? This whole ordeal started in the first place when AFFL paid people with free entries instead of actual money.Something like free entry for the next 20 years? That would be great if you could pull that off.
Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
You missed the post from his Lawyer. Please read it. It's either nothing or nothing. You pick.Do you really think these scumbags will run contests, and pay out, for the next 20 years?I'd rather ruin the lives of these unethical douchebags than endorse their behavior by continuing to play in their leagues.So you would rather receive nothing at all or play for free for the next 20 years with the chance of cashing big? I'll take the 20 years and be happy I got something.How would that be great? This whole ordeal started in the first place when AFFL paid people with free entries instead of actual money.Something like free entry for the next 20 years? That would be great if you could pull that off.
CalBear
Footballguy
The post where it says "we're trying to work something out with them"? Why do you assume that means you'll get nothing?AFFL is in breach of contract. You can't get water from a rock, but as long as they continue to run contests, they will have money that can be garnished. If they shut down the contests, the brothers have money that can be garnished. That's what lawsuits are for.
buck naked
Footballguy
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Maroney=Speed
Footballguy
'the brothers have money that can be garnished. That's what lawsuits are for.'Good Luck with that.
buck naked
Footballguy
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nysportsfan
Footballguy
Sorry man, but is this now a closed case? Where does it go from here?
buck naked
Footballguy
No, it is not closed. We are filing Complaints in Golab's and Smolarczyk's Bankruptcy cases to hold the debt as non-dischargeable fraud claims against them.
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Hey Buck,What does that mean for the guys who entered AFFL's 2010 contests? I know these guys have a history, but ca their personal bankruptcies inure absolve them from paying even the 2010 winners?
buck naked
Footballguy
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jackdubl
Footballguy
Standard operating procedure for a bunch of crooks. Steal the cash, get sued, declare bankruptcy, start a new corp and do it all over again. Meanwhile, the previous suit just goes and goes until everyone loses interest and settles for a free subscription to a new game they won't get paid for. Win for the crooks.
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Captain Hook
Footballguy
WHY would anyone have entered AFFL games in 2010???
CalBear
Footballguy
Insufficient publicity about these crooks.
