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Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez Says Republicans are running "their little torture project". Agree? (3 Viewers)

Are Republicans intentionally running a "little torture project"?

  • Absolutely Yes

    Votes: 32 20.4%

  • Probably Yes

    Votes: 26 16.6%

  • On The Fence

    Votes: 8 5.1%

  • Probably No

    Votes: 16 10.2%

  • Absolutely No

    Votes: 75 47.8%
  • Total voters
    157
Maurile Tremblay said:
I’ve seen anarchists make this point in the context of arguing that voting is inherently immoral.

I hadn’t previously seen this point made by anyone who thinks voting is a good idea.
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I guess I wasn't clear enough. Perhaps a politician seems to generally be about what you are about. You vote for them hoping that they will do good things for the country. Instead they do bad things. Maybe they take a drone program you hated under the previous admin and they put it on steroids. They use it to commit war crimes. How you react to that is where you can go from dupe to accomplice. Do you continue to support them? Or do you take your small bit of power back from them? Do you say what you are doing is not protecting this country it is morally wrong. Or do you say its OK because that's my guy? If you go with it then you are now an active participant in those crimes. That's not really hard to understand to me. I admit I haven't always felt this way. I have come to this relatively recently to my shame. I used to say "what can I do? That's just the way it is". Well I realized it's that way because people say that. We need to understand that when a bomb kills a busload of children and we provided it, we gave command and control support and it says USA on it that's me and you. I'm not for killing kids and I don't want that blood on my hands. So if we elect Bernie and he doesn't bring that program to heel then I wouldn't morally be able to support him going forward. I think he would, I hope he would but I can't guarantee it. All i can guarantee is me pulling my support if he doesn't.  That's all I got, that's all my power and with that power comes responsibility. 

 
timschochet said:
Here's the problem with this line of thinking: most bad actions are not deliberate.

You're correct that I bear a bit of responsibility for all deliberate activity by any politician I support or vote for. And obviously that would include all legislation. But am I responsible when my candidate screws up? I don't think I am. Am I responsible for when my candidate takes a deliberate action, but the result is something he did not intend? I say no to that one too.
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In my experience almost all bad actions stem directly from deliberate decisions. You sound like the Supreme Court in someone gave you 1 million dollars well you are such a lamb there is no way that could corrupt you. Those of us that live in reality know better.

In the military I was taught the appearance of corruption is corruption.

 
Capella said:
I don’t know if her torture comments are correct but I can’t believe anybody can spend even 5 seconds caring about something like that when there are actual kids and people dying in these conditions. Who gives a flip about any particular comments, this is a total crisis. 
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Close to 10,000 agents making jokes about them dying and suffering.  Just a few rogue agents too stupid to know better was the argument a couple of days ago.  AOC's statement is much closer to the truth.  Everything they do is deliberate and they LAUGH at their suffering and dying.  They all belong in prison. 

 
Up next, the homeless?

President Trump said Monday that he wanted to address the crisis of people on the streets, telling Fox News in an interview that his administration “may intercede” to clean up cities such as Washington, San Francisco and Los Angeles.

The president made the remarks in an interview he taped in Japan with Fox News host Tucker Carlson, after Carlson asked him about cities in Japan, which Carlson said are clean and free from graffiti and “junkies.” American cities, by comparison, have a problem with “filth,” Carlson noted.

“It’s a phenomena that started two years ago,” Trump said, drawing a connection between the beginning of this and the early days of his time in the White House. “It’s disgraceful.”

The numbers of homeless people in the United States has stayed relatively level in the three years between 2016 and 2018, ticking up from 550,000 to 553,000 last year. But these numbers represent a significant drop over the past decade. An average of 630,000 people experienced homelessness per year between 2007 and 2012, according to federal data. And an average of 580,000 people were homeless a year between 2012 and 2015.

The president went on at some length, painting a dark picture of life in some American cities without giving specifics for how he would address the issue.

Police officers are getting sick just by walking the beat,” he claimed. “We cannot ruin our cities. And you have people that work in those cities. They work in office buildings and to get into the building, they have to walk through a scene that nobody would have believed possible three years ago."

“We have to take the people,” he said. “And we have to do something.”

Trump did not mention the word homeless during the segment, so it was difficult to glean his exact meaning or how he would address the issue. He blamed liberals and “sanctuary cities.”

“When we have leaders of the world coming in to see the president of the United States and they’re riding down a highway, they can’t be looking at that,” he said. “They can’t be looking at scenes like you see in Los Angeles and San Francisco . . . So we’re looking at it very seriously. We may intercede. We may do something to get that whole thing cleaned up.”

President Trump suggests executing drug dealers at summit on opioid crisis

He also said he personally “ended” some issues in this regard in the District of Columbia but did not elaborate.

“You know, I had a situation when I first became president,” Trump said, “We had certain areas of Washington, D.C., where that was starting to happen, and I ended it very quickly. I said, ‘You can’t do that.’ "

D.C. Mayor Muriel E. Bowser’s office did not respond to a request for comment.

The White House did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
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2Squirrels1Nut said:
Agreed. I posted months ago these are borderline war crimes. I hate that for once I was right about something. 
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Yeah, I hear you. It’s not a “good” right. This is ugly and disturbing. You just have to look at things like the picture Urbanhack posted above to see what we are doing is wrong. Those are the faces of relief? People free from the torments they were fleeing? 

 
This kind of child neglect and emotional trauma is going to damage these kids forever. Want to know how you create mass shooters, terrorists, and gang members?  Well this is a start. Despicable. 

 
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Sheriff Bart said:
Meanwhile, this guy loses his job.  THIS GUY. Not the POTUS, not anyone in the administration, not the border agents.  
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#FAKENEWS

“This is a false narrative which has emerged carelessly and recklessly on social media," the publishing company wrote. It said that de Adder never offered the Trump cartoon to the company and had already decided to "bring back" another cartoonist it said was popular with readers. "[N]egotiations had been ongoing for weeks," it stated. It did not respond to further requests from comment from CNN Business. Monday is a national holiday in Canada.

In a tweet on Monday, de Adder said he never submitted the cartoon to Brunswick News "for fear that I might be fired."”

 
HellToupee said:
#FAKENEWS

“This is a false narrative which has emerged carelessly and recklessly on social media," the publishing company wrote. It said that de Adder never offered the Trump cartoon to the company and had already decided to "bring back" another cartoonist it said was popular with readers. "[N]egotiations had been ongoing for weeks," it stated. It did not respond to further requests from comment from CNN Business. Monday is a national holiday in Canada.

In a tweet on Monday, de Adder said he never submitted the cartoon to Brunswick News "for fear that I might be fired."”
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>>He told CNN Business in an interview on Monday that the cartoon ran in the Chronicle Herald newspaper in Halifax on June 29, "after it went viral but before it went supernova."<<

- Also the News’ claim that it wasn’t ‘that’ cartoon doesn’t contradict de Adder’s point that it was overall prior work critical of Trump that caused his firing, and that this single piece was the tipping point.

 
pantherclub said:
People are drinking from toilets, women being called derogatory names.  All unsubstantiated.
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I'm not assigning any particular weight to AOC here, but these facilities really need to be open to public oversight.  There's no good reason I can think of why members of congress and the media shouldn't be allowed to visit and take pictures.  We manage to make this work with the criminal justice system, so why not immigration?

 
there is no Crisis at the southern border - Democrats said that for 2 years - don't forget

as for what AOC said?  its instilling fear and drama and chips away at the border agents and govt employee's who's doing the best they can with this massive problem - AOC should be ashamed 

 
Stealthycat said:
there is no Crisis at the southern border - Democrats said that for 2 years - don't forget

as for what AOC said?  its instilling fear and drama and chips away at the border agents and govt employee's who's doing the best they can with this massive problem - AOC should be ashamed 
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Like I said above cross reference from other congressmen.

 
irish eyes said:
You will believe anything won't you? Why anyone listens to a word that comes out of the moronic mouth of AOC is baffling.
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I never said I believed her. But I’m not sure why we should just assume she’s lying either. We already know conditions are terrible there. Perhaps this is hyperbole, perhaps it’s a lie, or maybe it’s the truth. Personally I’m not going to make any assumptions at this point. 

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Guards not respecting US Congressman is not ok. This is a democracy.
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None of those things you have posted involve threats which is what I specifically asked Tim about. 

AOC is being deliberately misleading about what occurred yesterday which is unfortunate. She is trying to make it about her.

And to these CBP officers saying they felt “threatened” by me - They were literally discussing making a GoFundMe for an officer who attacked my on my tour. They confiscated my phone, and they were all armed. I’m 5’4”. They’re just upset I exposed their inhumane behavior.
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She is making it sound as if that happened on her tour. She is using info that was posted online and acting as if it happened on her visit. It didnt. 

 Just left the 1st CBP facility. I see why CBP officers were being so physically &sexually threatening towards me. Officers were keeping women in cells w/ no water & had told them to drink out of the toilets. This was them on their GOOD behavior in front of members of Congress.
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Again she is clearly trying to make it sound as if this happened on her visit. It didnt. She is equating the photoshopped photos as her being sexually threatened. As a stand alone claim I would take her at her word. When she adds the bold she is being deliberately dishonest.  A woman in a cell allegedly told her that she was told to drink out of a toilet. She didn't witness this behavior. None of them did. 

So when people are deliberately dishonest about some things, it brings into question whether they are honest about lots of other things. I honestly have disregarded everything she said about her visits. I find the drone photos that have made the rounds to be far more damning and reliable. 

These camps obviously need better conditions, quickly. But her muddying the waters doesnt help. Not one bit. 

 
The Football Freak said:
Disgusting. As I’ve said before, these awful human beings need to be rooted out and fired. What kind of person can tear apart families, and throw them into inhumane conditions? These kinds of people. 
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Nine thousand five hundred. There are 21,000 total border patrol agents. 

 
Myself, I will not quibble with a woman saying she feels threatened who has been depicted publicly and for approval of like thinking folks to the person making the original posting being guided by the hand of an alleged serial abuser to fellate said serial abuser, a political opponent and a man whose morals so disgust her that we can presume she would not be involved with him were he the last man on earth. They depicted sex as a weapon of subjugation with her being the one subjugated.

 
parasaurolophus said:
These camps obviously need better conditions, quickly. But her muddying the waters doesnt help. Not one bit. 
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I’m not sure of this. 

As I’ve pointed out before, AOC fits the role of the classic American muckraker. Historically, these muckrakers are known for hyperbole, dramatics, and drawing as much attention to themselves as they do to the issues they’re concerned with. More often than not they have tended to be members of the hard left and their “solutions” are radical and problematic. Upton Sinclair, Lincoln Steffens, Ralph Nader. 

And yet, despite all this, they DO tend to draw attention to real problems in society, and thIs does lead to positive change. 

 
timschochet said:
Are you assuming she’s making all of this up? 
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Yes I think she’s all making it up and I think she’s legit unhinged.  Did you see her hanging out the car?  These attacks on federal law enforcement are outrageous. Just horrifying how awful this person is.

 
parasaurolophus said:
SaintsInDome2006 said:
Guards not respecting US Congressman is not ok. This is a democracy.
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None of those things you have posted involve threats which is what I specifically asked Tim about. 
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Dean and Kennedy both refer to hostility and uncooperativeness.

Congressmen need to me met with absolute civility, respect and deference by detention center guards, this is absolutely not ok.

 
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parasaurolophus said:
AOC is being deliberately misleading about what occurred yesterday which is unfortunate. She is trying to make it about her.

And to these CBP officers saying they felt “threatened” by me - They were literally discussing making a GoFundMe for an officer who attacked my on my tour. They confiscated my phone, and they were all armed. I’m 5’4”. They’re just upset I exposed their inhumane behavior.
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She is making it sound as if that happened on her tour. She is using info that was posted online and acting as if it happened on her visit. It didnt. 

 Just left the 1st CBP facility. I see why CBP officers were being so physically &sexually threatening towards me. Officers were keeping women in cells w/ no water & had told them to drink out of the toilets. This was them on their GOOD behavior in front of members of Congress.
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Again she is clearly trying to make it sound as if this happened on her visit. It didnt. She is equating the photoshopped photos as her being sexually threatened. As a stand alone claim I would take her at her word. When she adds the bold she is being deliberately dishonest.  A woman in a cell allegedly told her that she was told to drink out of a toilet. She didn't witness this behavior. None of them did. 

So when people are deliberately dishonest about some things, it brings into question whether they are honest about lots of other things. I honestly have disregarded everything she said about her visits. I find the drone photos that have made the rounds to be far more damning and reliable. 

These camps obviously need better conditions, quickly. But her muddying the waters doesnt help. Not one bit. 
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I would just ask that you look at other commentaries then. This mistreatment situation is a serious problem for the USA. Please focus on that. 

 
Capella said:
It was substantiated....by members of Congress. 
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It was substantiated that a woman in a cell said that happened to her. They didnt witness this behavior. 

timschochet said:
I’m not sure of this. 

As I’ve pointed out before, AOC fits the role of the classic American muckraker. Historically, these muckrakers are known for hyperbole, dramatics, and drawing as much attention to themselves as they do to the issues they’re concerned with. More often than not they have tended to be members of the hard left and their “solutions” are radical and problematic. Upton Sinclair, Lincoln Steffens, Ralph Nader. 

And yet, despite all this, they DO tend to draw attention to real problems in society, and thIs does lead to positive change. 
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Her comments are dominating the stories about these camps right now. Her comments are obviously dishonest and misleading.

Because of these comments the reuters photos showing a camp from am unscheduled "drop in" showing trash everywhere and obvious overcrowding are pretty much buried. 

Yeah. Good job AOC. 

 
And do I think detention guards had a special antipathy for Cortez that they did not have for other Congressmen? Yeah, that's possible.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
And do I think detention guards had a special antipathy for Cortez that they did not have for other Congressmen? Yeah, that's possible.
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And fascinating in itself if true. 

Again we are confronted with the chicken or egg theory regarding this woman: is she a political celebrity right now because she represents what a lot of liberals believe? Or because conservatives are paying way too much attention to her? 

 
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