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Already dropped Martin...done or not? (1 Viewer)

I don't disagree with your comment at all regarding getting paid, bc It's always about that dollar bill. But, he would still get paid his salary on IR. And, I doubt Martin has been hitting any of his bonus criteria this season....either way, I get it...these guys are ultra-competitive. But, at some point, a coach and/or the medical staff should give some sort of guidance to the player...

Playing through the pain of cracked ribs doesn't compare with the pain of a torn labrum. One injury heals by itself fairly quickly and can be played with, the other has 0% chance of healing by itself and only leads to scar tissue as well as further damage/complications with continued use.

Ask anyone who has ever dislocated their shoulder if that shoulder has ever been the same since. That number is close to 0.

 
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Webbstar842 said:
Dwight Howard can't be compared with a pro football running back...it's apples and oranges with the amount of stress and direct trauma the shoulder goes through in a professional football player...plus, the mechanism of injury is completely different when comparing Dwight and Doug...and it's hard to compare Sidney rice with Martin either, due to the fact that Martin goes through much more "damage" as a running back than a WR...that said, I stated that if Martin has no pain/symptoms and is without a setback, he could be back out on the field this season. But, I will reiterate, his labrum is not going to heal on its own and he will be at risk for further complications until it is repaired. It just doesn't make sense for the guy to try and rush to get back out on the field to a team that is 0-6..dislocating your shoulder is one of the most painful injuries out there, and having a torn labrum only increases the risk of that happening, location dependent of the tear, but still a reality. Sidney Rice had his injury in the preseason and had a whole season ahead of him as well as a relatively symptom-free injury. At the end of the day, Rice had to get surgery. But, he seems like he has some kind of underlying connective tissue problem....he's had surgery on his knee, hip, both shoulders...most of these defects were found because Rice was "sore" in those areas or hurt during practice, as opposed to Martin who hurt his in a traumatic nature. At the end of the day, I guess I'm just speculating like everyone else, but I will say from a medical standpoint, if the MRI report is accurate, he will be better off in the long run in his young career getting the surgery now vs risking further damage to his shoulder.
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Don't be surprised if Martin plays by week 10.

You really don't know the extent of the injury. It hasn't been reported. It is a torn labrum and not all torn labrums are equal.

It could actually be argued playing with a torn Labrum as a receiver is worse. They always have to stretch out, make awkward movements with their arms, expose themselves to big hits and fall to the ground hard after jumping high. I believe traditionally receivers get more shoulder injuries than running backs.

Martin got hurt on a play where he was acting as a receiver. Getting hit on the shoulder doesn't actually stretch the labrum. The risk of further damage can be minimal depending where the tear is. Rice had no longterm repercussions from playing through his. It could very well be Martin can't play through his and he may end up on IR and have surgery but playing through a torn labrum is not unprecedented in football. All I know for sure is both the organization and Martin himself are saying it is not a season ending injury. It is way too premature to drop him.

Even if Martin does have surgery after the year it would give him plenty of time to recover for next year.

 
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A medical perspective.

http://espn.go.com/blog/stephania-bell/post/_/id/1527/fantasy-injury-report-doug-martin

Tampa Bay Buccaneers running back Doug Martin left Sunday’s game in the third quarter with a shoulder injury, and early reports sounded encouraging. It was Martin who indicated X-rays on his left shoulder were fine, and that his shoulder was not separated.

But X-rays only tell the bony part of the story. Later media reports indicated Martin suffered a torn labrum, damage to the fibrocartilaginous ring that adds depth and stability to an otherwise shallow and inherently unstable shoulder joint. Depending on the location and extent of the damage to the labrum, the injury can range from something an athlete can play through with intermittent discomfort to something that requires surgery and cuts a season short.

Labral tears are most often associated with throwing athletes, as the repetitive motion of bringing the arm overhead wears down the tissue with time. Acute labral tears like the one Martin apparently suffered are more often the result of episodes where the shoulder is jammed during a hard fall or when contact forces the shoulder to either sublux (slip quickly out of place but pop back in) or completely dislocate, resulting in damage to the surrounding tissue.

Ultimately, the degree of damage and loss of function will determine whether the player can continue to play. At this point, it sounds as if that has not been determined. Presuming Martin undergoes a trial of conservative rehab to see how his shoulder progresses, it could be a matter of weeks before the team arrives at a final decision.

 
As a Bucs fan I hope he goes on IR. I dont want to see him injured any further. As a fantasy owner in redrafts... I would like to have him as an option in the final few weeks of the fantasy season.

 
Leonidas said:
I am not sure what to do.

Martin was putting up RB2 numbers, even in that offense. He was absolutely worth having on your roster, anybody who says he wasn't doing anything all season is just plain wrong, and needs to go back and check the stats. There is a serious difference between not living up to expectations and not being valuable.

I hate to drop him in case he does come back later in the season...but I'd hate to hold him and not make a claim on Vereen or Andre Brown or James or whoever, only to have him land on IR.
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He might have been doing something on the field and in PPR leagues but in my TD heavy league, 2 points a week were not cutting it.

Traded him 2 weeks ago for Jordy, paying off nicely.

 
fbelange said:
OG_GF said:
Short version is ... if you just broke the bank for Mike James .... oops.
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Sorry you missed out.

Or that your roster depends on Martin (Lol)
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LOL, my first 3 RBs taken were Trent Richardson, Ahmad Bradshaw and Andre Brown. I'm 6-1. Knowshon Moreno in the 10th round really saved me.

Also jumped on Zac Stacy early. Started him over T-Rich last week. Starting him again even against Seattle.

"Hey Stacy!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1A0p0F_iH8

So many sexy possibilities.

 
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OG_GF said:
He was what ... about Trent Richardson level numbers before he got hurt? I'm about ready to drop Trent Richardson, and he's healthy.
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In standard formats Martin had 57.20 points through 5.5 games. That's an average of 10.4 ppg. If you count the injury and missing the second half of the game against him, it's 9.5 ppg.

Richardson has 51.30 points through 7 games. That's 7.32 ppg.

That's 2-3 ppg difference between the two.

 
Gargoylez said:
As a Bucs fan I hope he goes on IR. I dont want to see him injured any further. As a fantasy owner in redrafts... I would like to have him as an option in the final few weeks of the fantasy season.
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it makes no sense to bring him back for week 13ish... if you are 2-11... why bother... the doc in that video said surgery will be needed and will take 6 months to recover... i think tampa will come to their senses when they lose 2 or 3 more over the next 3-4 weeks and put an end to his season

 
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What do you guys think about Mike James...any Bucs homers here?

I don't know much about him and have never seen hm play. Considering starting him but I'm just not sure what were getting

 
iamkoza said:
Gargoylez said:
As a Bucs fan I hope he goes on IR. I dont want to see him injured any further. As a fantasy owner in redrafts... I would like to have him as an option in the final few weeks of the fantasy season.
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it makes no sense to bring him back for week 13ish... if you are 2-11... why bother... the doc in that video said surgery will be needed and will take 6 months to recover... i think tampa will come to their senses when they lose 2 or 3 more over the next 3-4 weeks and put an end to his season
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Again that is not really the option. I think if he plays it won't be that long until he starts playing again, like week 10 for instance. If he postponed surgery until January then even at 6 months it means he is ready to play in July. This is football, where players play through pain all the time. The big issue for him will be how much range of motion will he recover.

 
Working to get back Nov. 11th.

After the Buccaneers play the Panthers on Thursday night, they play just one game before returning to prime time with a game against the Dolphins on Monday, November 11.

Ian Rapoport of NFL Network reports that the Buccaneers are aiming to have running back Doug Martin back in the lineup for that contest. The plan is to have Martin work to strengthen his shoulder, where he reportedly has a torn labrum, in hopes of avoiding surgery which would bring his season to an end. Martin will also wear a harness on the shoulder in hopes of preventing further injury.
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Latest news as per NFL.com

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000268992/article/buccaneers-hope-doug-martin-can-return-next-month

Bucs Hope Martin Can Return Next Month

The Tampa Bay Buccaneers have legitimate optimism that Doug Martin has not played his final down of the 2013 season.

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport, citing a team source, reported on "Around The League Live" that the Bucs have put a target return date of Nov. 11 for their star running back, who suffered a torn labrum in Week 7's 31-23 loss to the Atlanta Falcons.

The Bucs play just one game in 18 days after Thursday's matchup against the Carolina Panthers. Martin will use that time strengthening his shoulder. If he experiences a setback, the Bucs will shut him down for the season.

Martin will be out against the Panthers and Week 9 against the Seattle Seahawks. In Week 10, the Bucs will meet the Miami Dolphins on "Monday Night Football." The team hopes that's when Martin will be back in the backfield.

 
NFL Network's Ian Rapoport reports the Bucs are "optimistic" about getting Doug Martin (shoulder) back this season, and that Martin is targeting Week 10 for a potential return.

Per Rapoport, Martin will spend the next two weeks strengthening his shoulder, and that the Bucs will "shut him down" if he experiences a setback. In other words, Martin is giving it a college try, but is far from a sure bet to return this season. Week 10 is just 18 days away, and not a terribly realistic return date for a player just four days removed from a major injury. Regardless, owners must hold fast until the Muscle Hamster's situation clarifies.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/7426/doug-martin

 
Who was the hack that first reported Martin was out for the year? I dont own the guy, but it would be nice to know who was the first to say hes out for the year so I can ignore the person.

 
gradin123 said:
iamkoza said:
Gargoylez said:
As a Bucs fan I hope he goes on IR. I dont want to see him injured any further. As a fantasy owner in redrafts... I would like to have him as an option in the final few weeks of the fantasy season.
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it makes no sense to bring him back for week 13ish... if you are 2-11... why bother... the doc in that video said surgery will be needed and will take 6 months to recover... i think tampa will come to their senses when they lose 2 or 3 more over the next 3-4 weeks and put an end to his season
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Again that is not really the option. I think if he plays it won't be that long until he starts playing again, like week 10 for instance. If he postponed surgery until January then even at 6 months it means he is ready to play in July. This is football, where players play through pain all the time. The big issue for him will be how much range of motion will he recover.
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July is the start of training camp... who knows if a setback were to occur then you are risking missing time in training camp (nota huge deal but if a new coaching staff is in place it could make things more challenging). wouldnt you rather your franchise RB get fixed now vs gutting out yards in meaningless 2013 games?

 
iamkoza said:
gradin123 said:
iamkoza said:
Gargoylez said:
As a Bucs fan I hope he goes on IR. I dont want to see him injured any further. As a fantasy owner in redrafts... I would like to have him as an option in the final few weeks of the fantasy season.
Click to expand...
it makes no sense to bring him back for week 13ish... if you are 2-11... why bother... the doc in that video said surgery will be needed and will take 6 months to recover... i think tampa will come to their senses when they lose 2 or 3 more over the next 3-4 weeks and put an end to his season
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Again that is not really the option. I think if he plays it won't be that long until he starts playing again, like week 10 for instance. If he postponed surgery until January then even at 6 months it means he is ready to play in July. This is football, where players play through pain all the time. The big issue for him will be how much range of motion will he recover.
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July is the start of training camp... who knows if a setback were to occur then you are risking missing time in training camp (nota huge deal but if a new coaching staff is in place it could make things more challenging). wouldnt you rather your franchise RB get fixed now vs gutting out yards in meaningless 2013 games?
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Yeah but the injury may not require surgery at all, we don't know all the details. If they thought there was a risk in playing him or if they still come to that conclusion then he wouldn't play. But as it is it might be no worse than a tolerance issue like playing through bruised ribs.

 
Keith Lewis said:
This overrated turd was garbage when healthy. It's ridiculous to keep an injured turd.
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This exactly.

This is fantasy football, boys.

I watched my team get slayed by Andy Dalton, Roy Helu, and Harry Douglas last week...lost by a swift 50 points ...anything is possible.

 
Things not in Martin's favor if he comes back:

  1. Sling or not, he'll be tackled, fallen on, and hit. He'll also be blocking, reaching for passes, and giving hits. Not good for a guy whose durability has been compromised. Who's to say he'll be able to finish any game he starts?
  2. His workload will probably have to be decreased from the herculean levels they were at pre-injury. The only reason he had RB2 numbers was volume. Less volume and less health probably means diminished production.
  3. His OL's run blocking is hurt by Carl Nicks being out with the staph infection.
  4. Speaking of infection, the locker room is infected with disaffection. This is a team that is mutinying against its coach.
  5. Glennon isn't going to command much respect from the opposing D.
He's probably only going to be flex worthy upon his return, if that. And, like I said, there'll will be the risk of re-injury and inability to finish a game. There are less risky flexes.

 
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just_want_2_win said:
Things not in Martin's favor if he comes back:

  • Sling or not, he'll be tackled, fallen on, and hit. He'll also be blocking, reaching for passes, and giving hits. Not good for a guy whose durability has been compromised. Who's to say he'll be able to finish any game he starts?
  • His workload will probably have to be decreased from the herculean levels they were at pre-injury. The only reason he had RB2 numbers was volume. Less volume and less health probably means diminished production.
  • His OL's run blocking is hurt by Carl Nicks being out with the staph infection.
  • Speaking of infection, the locker room is infected with disaffection. This is a team that is mutinying against its coach.
  • Glennon isn't going to command much respect from the opposing D.
He's probably only going to be flex worthy upon his return, if that. And, like I said, there'll will be the risk of re-injury and inability to finish a game. There are less risky flexes.
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BINGO

 
James looked solid I thought. No worse than Martin. He has more points per touch by a good margin.

 
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It's putting it mildly to say Schiano's on the hot seat and now Mike Williams is on IR. The wheels are a-comin' off in Tampa. Do you think the Williams news makes it less likely Martin would come back, more likely, or doesn't really affect the issue?

 
just_want_2_win said:
It's putting it mildly to say Schiano's on the hot seat and now Mike Williams is on IR. The wheels are a-comin' off in Tampa. Do you think the Williams news makes it less likely Martin would come back, more likely, or doesn't really affect the issue?
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No effect really. I guess it does show the Bucs are willing to place a key player on IR though if they don't think he will contribute for a long while.

Apperently I saw somewhere he was going to see James Andrews to see if playing through it risked any further injuries. If James Andrews clears him then he will play IMO and probably in Week 10.

 
Rotoworld:

Speaking Monday, coach Greg Schiano said Doug Martin (shoulder) will "hopefully" be able to play "soon."
Schiano conceded that right now, Martin can't play. That means Mike James will get another start Sunday, this time in a nearly impossible matchup at Seattle. Martin's timetable is extremely fluid as playing through a torn labrum for an 0-7 team appears counterproductive. Previous reports had Martin's timetable at anywhere from two weeks to two months.

Related: Mike James

Source: Scott Smith on Twitter
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Rotoworld:

Speaking Thursday, Bucs coach Greg Schiano effectively ruled Doug Martin (shoulder) out for Week 9.
Why the Bucs have yet to make Martin's absence officially official is anyone's guess, but it probably has something to do with far-fetched "competitive reasons." Mike James will handle early downs against the Seahawks, with Brian Leonard in line for passing-down work. Martin is unlikely to be ready for Week 10.

Source: Pewter Report on Twitter
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After this Seahwaks game (you would be insanee to start James this week), is there anyhting to see here? James or otherwise?

I picked him up, and watched him play the first half vs Carolina 2 weeks ago. He looked good. Tough, stright ahead runs, and soft hands. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, he had like 2 yards in the second half when I was sleeping. I dont have much to offer here just confusion. Anyone think James will be productive as the year progresses?

 
fbelange said:
After this Seahwaks game (you would be insanee to start James this week), is there anyhting to see here? James or otherwise?

I picked him up, and watched him play the first half vs Carolina 2 weeks ago. He looked good. Tough, stright ahead runs, and soft hands. Then, seemingly out of nowhere, he had like 2 yards in the second half when I was sleeping. I dont have much to offer here just confusion. Anyone think James will be productive as the year progresses?
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I think the Bucs didn't run as much in the second half due to the lead Carolina had over them.

 
Rotoworld:

Bucs coach Greg Schiano acknowledged Friday Doug Martin will eventually need surgery on his torn shoulder labrum.
"Eventually, he'll need to get it repaired," said Schiano, while insisting Martin could still return this year. Why the Bucs in good faith would let Martin play through a torn labrum is beyond us, but it's obviously irresponsible. They haven't won a game all year. It's a situation where ownership needs to step in.

Source: Joe Bucs Fan
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Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bucs coach Greg Schiano acknowledged Friday Doug Martin will eventually need surgery on his torn shoulder labrum.
"Eventually, he'll need to get it repaired," said Schiano, while insisting Martin could still return this year. Why the Bucs in good faith would let Martin play through a torn labrum is beyond us, but it's obviously irresponsible. They haven't won a game all year. It's a situation where ownership needs to step in.

Source: Joe Bucs Fan
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Seriously, if Doug Martin sees a football field again in 2013. Greg Schiano needs to be taken out back, shot and put down.

 
Khy said:
Faust said:
Rotoworld:

Bucs coach Greg Schiano acknowledged Friday Doug Martin will eventually need surgery on his torn shoulder labrum.

"Eventually, he'll need to get it repaired," said Schiano, while insisting Martin could still return this year. Why the Bucs in good faith would let Martin play through a torn labrum is beyond us, but it's obviously irresponsible. They haven't won a game all year. It's a situation where ownership needs to step in.

Source: Joe Bucs Fan
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Seriously, if Doug Martin sees a football field again in 2013. Greg Schiano needs to be taken out back, shot and put down.
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agreed. Ownership needs to step in if they try to put him out there. I can totally see schiano doing anything to try and get a few wins.
 
I'm cutting tonight. Tried to trade after the news that he wanted to come back and haven't found any takers. I don't think anyone is even gonna pick him up so there's no point in wasting a roster spot.

 
I'm not sure if I should cut him or not. The league I'm in is a 1 keeper league and he could be my keeper next year. Or on the other hand if I am playing to win now I should probably cut him and pick up Vereen..

 
drm1125 said:
I cut him last week, he wasn't doing much for me in my td heavy league anyway.
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I cut bait. Good friend of mine torn his labrum twice, he explained to be about the injury and said he was told that rest/rehab is not really an option with this kind of injury. Without surgically repairing the labrum the shoulder will continue to pop out.

On the other hand, we're in the same league together... so maybe he was playing me. :lol:

Anyway, he convinced me that Martin is done for 2013.

 
ghawk said:
I'm not sure if I should cut him or not. The league I'm in is a 1 keeper league and he could be my keeper next year. Or on the other hand if I am playing to win now I should probably cut him and pick up Vereen..
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I'm right there on the edge with you. We have small benches but I know my league, and know Vereen could be gone any second now.

 
Dizzy said:
drm1125 said:
I cut him last week, he wasn't doing much for me in my td heavy league anyway.
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I cut bait. Good friend of mine torn his labrum twice, he explained to be about the injury and said he was told that rest/rehab is not really an option with this kind of injury. Without surgically repairing the labrum the shoulder will continue to pop out.

On the other hand, we're in the same league together... so maybe he was playing me. :lol:

Anyway, he convinced me that Martin is done for 2013.
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Celtics player Avery Bradley had a shoulder that kept popping out until surgery.

 
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