Identity politics leads to ruin. Already has. It spawned Trump and it may spawn him again.
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America is the best country on Earth, and there is no second. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Summer Wheat
- Start date
Manster
Footballguy
Think what you want.......I know what I see. It's going to do little good for us to hash it out on here
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
Let's just say leftist influence is apparent......I'm not going to get into it over the internet
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General Malaise
Footballguy
Ok, I'm also in liberal Oregon with 5 kids in the public school system. What are they learning in each grade specifically that you object to? Are they assigned different books than other states? Do they learn math differently? Is there a different history being taught? I'm very curious in your answers.Manster said:
For perspective, my oldest is going to Oregon in the fall. He will enter his first year with more than a semester full of college credits under his belt. He earned those by getting a 3 or higher (out of 5) on his Advance Placement exams. These are standard tests that AP students can take each year across the country. The same test in Oregon is used in Virginia, Florida, Texas, etc.
So my question to you is this:. If my son was taught differently in public schools on Oregon, how was he able to place out of college courses via a nationally provided standard test? Wouldn't it stand to reason that if he was taught differently that he'd not have the same teaching as kids in other states?
DaVinci
FairTaxguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
quick-hands
Footballguy
If you are over.....and America is over. Tell it.
djmich
Footballguy
Define obsessed. Is this like how so many people must be "outraged" because they started a thread?
quick-hands
Footballguy
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Thank you for your comment. My version of freedom is different, but all good. Most western democracies have plenty of freedom, many other countries have personal freedom, just not political freedom. You would probably be surprised how much you would enjoy most western countries and maybe others too. Weather, family ties and employment are the biggest issues if you have been in the us your whole life.
On your freedom priorities, Plenty of places in the world where you can fish, but shooting guns shouldnt be a problem elsewhere as long as its hunting or a shooting range. Open carry may be an issue elsewhere
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
The countries you are mentioning are more similar to the Ethiopian vomit ice cream. Its easy to compare diarrhea and pus flavor to Vanilla.quick-hands said:
How about Australian choc Chip or New Zealand Strawberry, Canadian Rocky Road, British Raspberry. Italian Stracciatella, Spanish Lime etc?
You spent any time in France? Great country, lovely people if you know how to talk to them. I have many friends who have spent considerable time in China and as long as you arent political its a great country to live in.
Saying Vanilla is the greatest ice cream ever when all youve ever tasted is vanilla is a pointless way for no one to take you seriously.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
Its a good perspective KP. Its very honest and good to hear.KarmaPolice said:
My travel is comprehensive, I have lived in 5 continents for at least a year. Doesnt matter what my opinion is on “greatest country”, its just mine. All countries have their good and bad points. The ethiopian opinion, is the same with maybe lesser travel, but still valid. I could sit here and piss on my reasons for not considering the US the number one country, but again they are just my opinions. The US has many reasons to be proud. When they work together they are unbeatable, divided and its a mess. Education, health and guns are my biggest concerns, but they take political will to fix.
John Maddens Lunchbox
Socialism for Dummies
I usually like Tim, but he is his own worst enemy. His work in this thread is awful. Those few who line up to report his every misgiving are probably laughing right now.
quick-hands
Footballguy
Sure go ahead. I just want the USA vanilla. Go get those other flavors in other countries. When you got vanilla......you got a winner.
Manster
Footballguy
I don't doubt any of this. I'm just a hopelessly western USA kinda guy. I like big mountains, big trout rivers, and wide open spaces.....I don't do well in concrete jungles if u know what I mean.
I've been to Europe and it wasn't my cup o tea.....it's all locked up and exclusive....but again, I'm not a city guy
quick-hands
Footballguy
Plus if you had vomit flavored ice cream. And you got vanilla. You might be ok without trying something else. You might say. Nope. I'm done. This is super double elite.
And they are right.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
Choose your enemies wisely, as they be your last hope.
Manster
Footballguy
Honestly, big picture it comes down the social justice thing. My wife and I talk to our kids about the history of our country. We have made them aware. We're not interested in the schools leading in that role. Teach history in an honest way....thats fine.....but I don't think thats the end game. Also, we are finding that their peers who have more left leaning parents are pretty pushy with all of it. I just don't like the overall feel of how things are going.....it's that simple.
Edit to add...
I recently had a convo with a lib co-worker who I have tremendous respect for. She and I don't agree on a lot of things, but we respect each other.....I told her about how my daughter says there's a girl in her class (6th grade) who is a "furry".....so we discussed what that is......wow......she proceeds to tell me about her daughters core group of friends....band kids apparently......and she says she estimates 75% of em identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum.......my response?.....I fully get that some kids are born into that spectrum....but 75% in a group of friends? That's a fad, or peer pressure or whatever u wanna call it.....look, I'm all for supporting kids that are born to be something that doesn't fit the hetero male/female mold.....I'm not ok with this movement of kids trying to fit in so they go down this road.
I didnt want to bring these details as I figure I'll get roasted on here, but you guys push.....so there u go.....now u can call me a closed minded POS or whatever. I just want my kids to be who they are without being influenced by all this.
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KarmaPolice
Footballguy
BladeRunner
Footballguy
4% of the population of the United States is gay. There is simply no way that 75% of that group would be gay. However, if you watch the media you would think that ninety-nine percent of the United States is gay. It's absurd.
It's clearly a fad but a bad one at that.
Summer Wheat
Footballguy
Thanks,Herb said:
Bizarre that Tim dumped on it seconds after it was posted. I do think the PSF brings out the worst in some who look for the negative in everything though. Also it was not meant to be a USA..USA..USA is #1 and it was not about me. It was meant to say how a group of people of came here, worked hard, and prospered, respected and appreciated what they had here and maybe we should take a harder look and appreciate life here just a little more. Thats all.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Listen, I asked you a question and you answered. I appreciate it. I don't like that you feel as if the community here will attack you for providing an answer. That's not right. We should be able to disagree without feeling like the other posters are going to hammer you for having an opinion. I'm sure I'm part of that problem but maybe we can work together to change it.
As far as sexualatiy or identity goes, stats on this should be fluid. We live in a time where coming out or being whatever or whomever you are is okay. It wasn't like that not too long ago. You had people like Rock Hudson or the guy who played Mike Brady having to hide their sexualtiy until the day they died. That's not right. So when we throw figures around like "Only 5% of the population is gay" or whatever, how do we really know? Forever and a day, many folks who weren't tried and true heterosexuals had to hide (or chose to hide) their sexuality. So getting an accurate figure was probably impossible. If we're seeing more instances of kids coming out or identifying differently it's probably because we live in an era where we're more tolerant. I still don't believe that people are choosing to do this to be cool or trendy. We can agree to disagree on that.
We had a graduation party for my oldest son yesterday. He had about 7 or 8 of his friends come over. If I had three guesses to nail the sexualaty of any of them (including my son) I would probably whiff. Now to be fair, these are all theater kids, so perhaps it's not an accurate representation of what most 17-18 year old kids are all about, but you know what? Each one of these kids is holding down a job, paying their taxes, either going to college or coming up with a plan to do so and more than anything, they were laughing and felt comfortable just being who they were. Doesn't matter to me what they do in their personal lives so long as they are good people that are interested in making the world a better place. And by all accounts, that's exactly who these kids are.
So, I hear ya.....if the trend is moving in a direction you don't like, it's natural to try and find a source of blame. Public schools, parents, sure. Holywood, music, whatever. The way I see it is that we're living in a world that's changing and accommodating and tolerant. Gay today, straight tomorrow, pansexual next week. Just be you but be a good you. Make the world just a little better of a place than when you were birthed into it. Even if you do it with pink hair, a pierced asssss cheek and a tattoo of Freddy Mercury on your lower back.
dawgtrails
Footballguy
If they are band kids and gay I could see them all hanging out together and wouldn't be surprised
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I'm sure parts of China are very nice if you're okay with authoritarianism, widespread censorship, and genocide. Probably not the best example to cite for the point you're trying to make in this thread though.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
"Living in a Chinese reeducation camp is really just like trying strawberry ice cream after a lifetime of vanilla" is certainly a take.
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
That post was off to a pretty good start, too. If somebody wants to argue that the US is the greatest county on earth (wild over-reach), it doesn't help to point to third-tier countries like Venezuela for comparison. Of course Venezuela sucks, but nobody seriously thinks that we should be comparing ourselves to a country like that. The right response is to point to other highly developed, first world countries like Canada, the UK, France, Switzerland, Australia, Japan, etc. Countries with much of the same personal liberty that we enjoy, where a transplanted American could be perfectly happy living a life very similar to their life in Iowa or Texas or New York or wherever.
It takes a bold man to toss China in there, considering the whole "murdering their own people" thing.
It takes a bold man to toss China in there, considering the whole "murdering their own people" thing.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I also know so many people born in other countries who have moved here and have said similar things. America is full of opportunity and freedom. It's a great place. The country has improved a lot over history as well. It took a lot of people fighting, complaining, protesting, etc. to get many of the changes we consider fundamental now. There is still room to improve and so it will continue to require people unwilling to accept the status quo. It's the nature of competition and how competition breeds a better result. I am sure many of the immigrants who came to America through Ellis Island said similar things but thankfully that didn't stop people from fighting for child labor laws, minimum wages, standard work weeks/hours, protection from dangerous work conditions, some social safety nets, etc. It is healthy to keep both perspectives in mind at the same time, whether thinking of the US, your job, yourself as a person, etc: thankful for what is but also working hard to improve it.
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Manster
Footballguy
Sounds like experimentation.
Like I've said, I'll support my kids in whatever they do, or whoever they are, but I'm not going to promote an environment where it's just a free for all. My daughter says the furry stuff makes her feel uncomfortable and some "pride" stuff was over the top, and aggressively in your face.......but you can't really be uncomfortable with any of it.
At the end of the day I'll help my kids navigate this crazy world the way I see fit. They'll have freedom to be who they are. But parents need to be there for guidance, as kids really don't know much about anything, even when they think they do.
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FairWarning
Footballguy
I’ll disagree with GM - kids are very impressionable and naturally gravitate to the cool and trendy. Heck, people did it in the 70’s with Bowie.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Dude, we're not taking about piercing ears, getting a tattoo or dressing like Bowie. I mean, I would have done anything to be cool and trendy at 17. Hell, I picked up smoking on the off chance it would help my cool factor. But making love with another man would have been a bridge to far for me. NTTIAWWT.
I have a 17 year old son too. He's got model good looks, plays football, knee deep in skush. His crew is undoubtedly skirt-chasing, sports-watching, hard-partying dudes who won't be experimenting with sexuality no matter how hip or trendy you might think it is.
We are all wired differently. Blessedly, we live in a different era than our predecessors where those who are wired differently feel comfortable enough to embrace who they are. As Lady Gaga says 'We are born this way".
FairWarning
Footballguy
Bowie made androgyny popular in the 70’s. Every class has the jocks, nerds, etc and different things influence them. That was my point about Bowie,
General Malaise
Footballguy
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
You bring up a great point about when it has been looked down on for so long, how do we know what a natural % of the population looks like for gay, bi, trans, etc. That said, I have seen interesting stats and articles pointing to an unnaturally high % of teens coming out as trans who have a friend who is also doing the same. (far more prevalent in girls). But this isn't the trans thread either.
Also great point about the bolded - we should strive to make this a place where we can express our experiences and conversations truthfully.
All I am going to call out @Manster is being surprised that only 75% of the band kids identified that way. Have you hung around band kids??
(yes I am joking, and yes I was a band kid).
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Except for those who want to do the "trendy" thing. That's the point. They're being influenced into thinking a certain way - that's not being "born this way".General Malaise said:
People aren't temporarily gay. You either are or you aren't.
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General Malaise
Footballguy
So......you think kids are doing gay sex just to be trendy? I'm not following.
Where does bisexuality fall on your scale?
BladeRunner
Footballguy
Yeah, I actually do. It may be to be trendy, score virtue points or the whole victimhood BS. Or it may simply be for attention.
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supermike80
Footballguy
I won't go as far as to say trendy...but experimental yes---way way more than we were as teens / young adults. I'm not sure how I feel about it as a rule. As General said, If they are good people, students, good jobs whatever with a good moral center, then I really don't care who they sleep with. Don't push it on others. Your sex life should be private. Not down with every gay person having to announce he or she is gay. Who cares.
Anyway.
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quick-hands
Footballguy
Manster
Footballguy
You think they're not? You think kids won't experiment with the "in" thing? It's naive to think otherwise
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
Is there something bad about kids experimenting with gay stuff?
I understand the concerns about kids undergoing medical treatment for being trans, even though I don’t think that’s actually being influenced by trendiness.
But I don’t see why gay sex is inherently more dangerous for kids than straight sex is.
I understand the concerns about kids undergoing medical treatment for being trans, even though I don’t think that’s actually being influenced by trendiness.
But I don’t see why gay sex is inherently more dangerous for kids than straight sex is.
General Malaise
Footballguy
No, I think we live in a culture today where identifying as non-hetero is far less of a big deal it was when you and I were teens. I think teens feel more comfortable coming out as the stigmas have been greatly reduced.
I get hammered for personalizing everything but another example. I was in a fraternity in the deep south from '91-'95. We probably had 5 or so brothers who were in the closet. And during rush, if there was even a slight chance that a potential pledge was gay, he would be blackballed. The guys that slipped through just hid it better. And, with the wonders of Facebook, lo and behold these guys were in fact gay and the ones I'm reconnected with are living what appears to be happy, comfortable gay lives.
In 2013 I went back to my college and took part in a chapter meeting. There were at least 7 or 8 openly gay brothers in the chapter meeting. It was talked about openly, some humorous zingers lobbed in both directions and it was just eye opening to me how far we've come that a fraternity in Mississippi of all places would be so welcoming. And it wasn't isolated to our fraternity, I asked a few of the brothers about it and they said "oh yeah, each fraternity has a handful of openly gay brothers. It's no big deal."
So, perhaps we're both a little right? I do think it's on the rise, though not as drastically as you think it is. I tend to believe we're more welcoming as a society and have created a more comfortable atmosphere to come out as whatever it is that tickles your fancy.
2Squirrels1Nut
Footballguy
It's always the people most outraged by homosexuality that hide the same sex desires themselves.
Manster
Footballguy
I don't disagree with this.
I guess for me, I don't really care what people do as long as they are consenting adults. With kids its always a little trickier.
At the end of the day, no matter what, as a parent I promote a very conservative approach to dating.....ie, if someone wants to date my daughter they will meet my wife and I.....it's a respect thing.....same goes for my son. I will expect him to show respect.....I guess I'm old fashioned.....and I'm not saying this kind thing can't be done between ANY two people.....it can obviously.
So part of my issue, and it's goes for all sexuality is........I'm not a huge fan of the whole "whatever tickles your fancy.". ....unless you're a mature adult.....like I said before, my daughter has been pretty uncomfortable at school with the aggressive nature of the sexuality stuff. It just feels like to me there's a slippery slope of "just go for it if it feels good.". ....it can lead to problems....many kids are just trying to survive and aren't ready for all this extra stuff to think about.
So I guess ultimately what I'm saying is, I teach my children to be kind and accepting of everyone, but I'm not exactly going to promote them seeking out friendships with the kids who are really pushing the gender/sexuality stuff...
sho nuff
Footballguy
While some are more accepting these days and there is less stigma…there are still too many each year ashamed of things to the point that suicide is their answer…so yeah any big narrative that any significant number of people are just doing it to be trendy seems illogical to me.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446760/
And still so much to learn on how it affects suicidal thoughts.
I don’t think its a non-zero number that may find it trendy…but not enough to to affect any real percentages IMO.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446760/
And still so much to learn on how it affects suicidal thoughts.
I don’t think its a non-zero number that may find it trendy…but not enough to to affect any real percentages IMO.
Manster
Footballguy
I suppose it depends on the each individual circumstance. Kids, in general, should be seeking healthy relationships that aren't based on sex, period.
