Fears of a second Civil War (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

I don't think people are going to war over pronouns and wokeism

No, because the people really angry about wokeism don't have the guts to fight anyone.

What, the battles gonna kick off when some Karens and some busybody senior citizens decide they cannot take it anymore??

Exactly this.

Some drag Queen is reading stories to first graders. That’s the last straw; let’s go to the barricades!

 

[massraider]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

 

[whoknew]

A common call if we abolish the EC is that states "will be ignored." That made some sense in 1886. But what does it even mean now in 2022? A person in Wyoming has more access to candidates on their phone than a person in 1800s DC did standing outside 1600 Pennyslvania Ave.

 

[Summer Wheat]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

POTUS is a national office. A Californian's vote should count as much as that of someone living in Wyoming.

Sorry but logic has no place in this forum.

I read this in a Sensei Kreese voice

I usually try to post in a Mr. Spock voice.

 

[the moops]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

I think all sorts of groups want to change the constitution. Something that has happened 27 times in its history. Not sure why 28 is the tipping point for some of y'all

 

[Dickies]

I don't care what system they use but it's crazy to get the most votes and LOSE.

The system was set up in the constitution to "win your state" in POTUS elections. Be it by one vote or one million votes. So each state has at least some say. The small states still don`t have much say unless the election is tight. If CA votes Trump then Trump wins, CA votes Biden and Biden wins.

Clinton ran a terrible campaign. Clinton wasted too much time in CA and NY, she should never have spent one minute in CA or NY. Trump never went to CA or NY knowing it was a waste of time and resources.

Small state would still have a say with PV

 

[Caveman33]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

I think a Civil War is extremely unlikely, 99.99%, and the results of such action would be very lopsided in favor of the Union. But maybe a heavily Republican area like Texas could negotiate for a Texit. That still seems unlikely but I can imagine that happening well before any real armed conflict.

 

[Amused to Death]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

That darn 19th amendment changed everything.

Which should serve as a reminder when we say the founding fathers got it just right.

 

[massraider]

I think a Civil War is extremely unlikely, 99.99%, and the results of such action would be very lopsided in favor of the Union. But maybe a heavily Republican area like Texas could negotiate for a Texit. That still seems unlikely but I can imagine that happening well before any real armed conflict.

They aren't as heavily Republican as they used to be. Voting for a Texit would surely mean a huge voter turnout.

Huge voter turnout=bad news for daydreaming Civil War losers

 

[Summer Wheat]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

That darn 19th amendment changed everything.

Which should serve as a reminder when we say the founding fathers got it just right.

I am

I don't care what system they use but it's crazy to get the most votes and LOSE.

The system was set up in the constitution to "win your state" in POTUS elections. Be it by one vote or one million votes. So each state has at least some say. The small states still don`t have much say unless the election is tight. If CA votes Trump then Trump wins, CA votes Biden and Biden wins.

Clinton ran a terrible campaign. Clinton wasted too much time in CA and NY, she should never have spent one minute in CA or NY. Trump never went to CA or NY knowing it was a waste of time and resources.

Small state would still have a say with PV

Honestly, I don`t care about EV or PV.

It is all about what is best for each side. And I include both sides.

 

[roadkill1292]

West Wing did this a lot and usually did it well. Like having to pay attention to a state like Oregon, with their not so many electoral votes, because they might be a factor in the election. Without this kind of thing, the little states would in many cases just get ignored.

Can you give me a list of "little states" that are consistently fought over today?

Nevada is the smallest battleground state though one could make an argument for New Hampshire.

The other six are top 20 in population.

 

[roadkill1292]

I don't care what system they use but it's crazy to get the most votes and LOSE.

The system was set up in the constitution to "win your state" in POTUS elections. Be it by one vote or one million votes. So each state has at least some say. The small states still don`t have much say unless the election is tight. If CA votes Trump then Trump wins, CA votes Biden and Biden wins.

Clinton ran a terrible campaign. Clinton wasted too much time in CA and NY, she should never have spent one minute in CA or NY. Trump never went to CA or NY knowing it was a waste of time and resources.

The system is flawed and we are flawed for not changing it.

States get their disproportionate representation in the Senate. That's bad enough.

 

[The Commish]

West Wing did this a lot and usually did it well. Like having to pay attention to a state like Oregon, with their not so many electoral votes, because they might be a factor in the election. Without this kind of thing, the little states would in many cases just get ignored.

Can you give me a list of "little states" that are consistently fought over today?

Nevada is the smallest battleground state though one could make an argument for New Hampshire.

The other six are top 20 in population.

Exactly....talking point really makes no sense.

 

[RCon]

What group wants to change the constitution?

Virtually everyone even remotely engaged in political discussion would recommend changes to the Constitution. That's not a bad thing, by the way. They all just recommend different changes.

 

[supermike80]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

YEah...Thats not true.

Is Civil War Necessary to End Racism in America?

It took a civil war to emancipate black people from slavery, will it take a second civil war to rid America of systematic racism?

aninjusticemag.com

 

[Philo Beddoe]

What group wants to change the constitution?

Virtually everyone even remotely engaged in political discussion would recommend changes to the Constitution. That's not a bad thing, by the way. They all just recommend different changes.

I’m good going back to the bill of rights

 

[ChicoCat]

Add more seats to the House. There's no reason it should be capped.

 

[the moops]

What group wants to change the constitution?

Virtually everyone even remotely engaged in political discussion would recommend changes to the Constitution. That's not a bad thing, by the way. They all just recommend different changes.

I’m good going back to the bill of rights

You might want to look at some of the others if you think all we need is the first 10

 

[The Commish]

What group wants to change the constitution?

Virtually everyone even remotely engaged in political discussion would recommend changes to the Constitution. That's not a bad thing, by the way. They all just recommend different changes.

I’m good going back to the bill of rights

You serious?

 

[Ben & Jerry's]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

 

[rustycolts]

What group wants to change the constitution?

Virtually everyone even remotely engaged in political discussion would recommend changes to the Constitution. That's not a bad thing, by the way. They all just recommend different changes.

I’m good going back to the bill of rights

I'm pretty big on the 1st,2nd and 10th.

 

[Godsbrother]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

As others have said I don't see how this happens from a logistical standpoint.

Trump and Graham have said there would be "violence in the streets" if Trump is indicted but that is far from a civil war and it would be quickly squashed. I guess groups like the Proud Boys might try taking over a government building and taking some Democrat politicians hostages I don't see how they could hold out very long.

On the other side of the coin I cannot see liberals taking up arms over abortion or gay rights.

The only far fetched scenario I can see is if a far right candidate takes over the white house, declares martial law and has the backing of the military to de-certifying elections and starts rounding up Democrat politicians and liberal leaders. We came a bit too close for comfort with Trump but there were enough Republicans that put country above party and did the right thing.

 

[RCon]

I’m good going back to the bill of rights

Yes, I'm sure it's only a matter of time until letting women vote and black people drink from the same water fountains will catch up to us and bring on the end of the republic.

 

[massraider]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

Eh, a couple of pork chops wearing camo might find a black guy to shoot, but that'll be about it.

 

[ChicoCat]

One thing I do think might happen if our divide continues is an increase in counter protests from everything to Pro Life gatherings to Anti-2nd Amendment rallys to Transgender Book Readings at local libraries with an increasing or blatant intent for violence. I'm actually kind of surprised that with the increase in violence in some cities coupled with the "defund the police" mantras......we haven't seen an increase in (for lack of better words) "vigilante" style groups looking for conflict.

 

[BladeRunner]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

If the government isn't going to do anything about it, then people will feel the need to take care of it themselves.

 

[KarmaPolice]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

There are always groups looking to start ****. I find the thumbsup and hearts between you a BR to be a bit odd over this statement. Do you think this is what should happen?

Question: what would you guess the reasoning is between: 1. hatred for the other side and using this as an excuse to step in and mess some people up. 2. a real sense of pride for the country and not wanting to see any destruction/violence?

 

[BladeRunner]

I hope things don't deteriorate to civil war levels but I think its safe to say you won't see mass crowds be allowed to burn and loot again without opposition groups doing more to stop it.

There are always groups looking to start ****. I find the thumbsup and hearts between you a BR to be a bit odd over this statement. Do you think this is what should happen?

Question: what would you guess the reasoning is between: 1. hatred for the other side and using this as an excuse to step in and mess some people up. 2. a real sense of pride for the country and not wanting to see any destruction/violence?

I gave you a heart for your post and here's a too.

I didn't realize that it bothered you that much. Thanks for pointing that out and in the future I will be more cognizant of your feelings.

Also, #2.

 

[urbanhack]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

Thomas Jefferson warned us not to regard the Capital C Constitution as sacred writ. On July 12, 1816, he wrote, “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” Jefferson believed that a dynamic society like ours needed periodic constitutional revision lest it be suffocated by an out-of-date social contract. “Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” he wrote. “We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again.

 

[Dickies]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

Thomas Jefferson warned us not to regard the Capital C Constitution as sacred writ. On July 12, 1816, he wrote, “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” Jefferson believed that a dynamic society like ours needed periodic constitutional revision lest it be suffocated by an out-of-date social contract. “Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” he wrote. “We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again.

Probably knocks Thomas Jefferson down a notch in the conservative mediasphere.

 

[massraider]

"Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again."

Ha. Jefferson was an actual genius, but this would not work here and now.

 

[RCon]

Probably knocks Thomas Jefferson down a notch in the conservative mediasphere.

Nah. Plenty of conservatives have been calling for changes to the Constitution for ages. In fact, it's largely conservatives currently pushing for a Constitutional Convention these days.

 

[GordonGekko]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: ‘Squad’ Rep. Bowman predicts ‘civil war’ if GOP takes control in midterms​

By Callie Patteson June 14, 2022 10:17am

https://nypost.com/2022/06/14/squad-rep-bowman-warns-of-civil-war-if-gop-takes-midterms

Direct Headline: ‘Civil War Is Here’: MSNBC Host Says There’s ‘No Dealing’ With Conservatives​

By Harold Hutchison August 19, 2022 10:05 AM ET

https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/19/cross-msnbc-civil-war/

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat


******

You don't say....

 

[Summer Wheat]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

Thomas Jefferson warned us not to regard the Capital C Constitution as sacred writ. On July 12, 1816, he wrote, “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” Jefferson believed that a dynamic society like ours needed periodic constitutional revision lest it be suffocated by an out-of-date social contract. “Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” he wrote. “We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again.

Oh I agree with that. The changes that are made should be all bipartisan so both sides agree it is for the good of all. I am not against changes.

At times changes are promoted because one side thinks it will benefit them. I am talking both sides.

Do you think getting rid of the EC would even be mentioned by the Dems if it hurt their future chances? Be honest.

 

[massraider]

Do you think getting rid of the EC would even be mentioned by the Dems if it hurt their future chances? Be honest.

Nope, definitely not.

But conceding that point doesn't really change the discussion about the EC. It's just admitting that Dems want to hang on to their power as well

 

[Dickies]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

Thomas Jefferson warned us not to regard the Capital C Constitution as sacred writ. On July 12, 1816, he wrote, “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” Jefferson believed that a dynamic society like ours needed periodic constitutional revision lest it be suffocated by an out-of-date social contract. “Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” he wrote. “We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again.

Oh I agree with that. The changes that are made should be all bipartisan so both sides agree it is for the good of all. I am not against changes.

At times changes are promoted because one side thinks it will benefit them. I am talking both sides.

Do you think getting rid of the EC would even be mentioned by the Dems if it hurt their future chances? Be honest.

I think it would and I think there would be a lot more Republican support for it. I’ve thought the EC was an absurd and convoluted way to conduct an election before I ever thought we would see it lead to someone with fewer votes winning an election.

I can live with my ideas not winning out when they the majority is against them. Where I get frustrated is when something has overwhelming majority support, but still loses out…. like gun control and universal healthcare.

 

[GoBirds]

How the Biden Regime reacts to the impending Hurricane in Florida will go a long way in seeing where we are as a nation.

Even as awful as Biden has been he has to wake up and be on top of this disaster . You can’t sleep through this or worry about politics, this has been catastrophic.

 

[FairWarning]

I saw a Thomas Jefferson reference in here and immediately thought we had to rewrite history again as he was a slave owner or something.

 

[Boston]

I saw a Thomas Jefferson reference in here and immediately thought we had to rewrite history again as he was a slave owner or something.

The Democrat party has an awful history when it comes to slavery so there is a good chance it gets rewritten.

 

[roadkill1292]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

What group wants to change the constitution?

Thomas Jefferson warned us not to regard the Capital C Constitution as sacred writ. On July 12, 1816, he wrote, “Some men look at constitutions with sanctimonious reverence and deem them like the ark of the covenant, too sacred to be touched. They ascribe to the men of the preceding age a wisdom more than human, and suppose what they did to be beyond amendment.” Jefferson believed that a dynamic society like ours needed periodic constitutional revision lest it be suffocated by an out-of-date social contract. “Laws and institutions must go hand in hand with the progress of the human mind,” he wrote. “We might as well require a man to wear still the coat which fitted him when a boy, as civilized society to remain ever under the regimen of their barbarous ancestors.” Jefferson’s “solution” to the problem of a claustrophobic constitution was to tear it up once every nineteen or twenty years and start again.

Oh I agree with that. The changes that are made should be all bipartisan so both sides agree it is for the good of all. I am not against changes.

At times changes are promoted because one side thinks it will benefit them. I am talking both sides.

Do you think getting rid of the EC would even be mentioned by the Dems if it hurt their future chances? Be honest.

This assumes that Republicans can't win the popular vote.

 

[Max Power]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: ‘Squad’ Rep. Bowman predicts ‘civil war’ if GOP takes control in midterms​

By Callie Patteson June 14, 2022 10:17am

https://nypost.com/2022/06/14/squad-rep-bowman-warns-of-civil-war-if-gop-takes-midterms

Direct Headline: ‘Civil War Is Here’: MSNBC Host Says There’s ‘No Dealing’ With Conservatives​

By Harold Hutchison August 19, 2022 10:05 AM ET

https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/19/cross-msnbc-civil-war/

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat


******

You don't say....

I don't think we will ever see a true civil war II in this country with people putting on uniforms for their side.

I think it is realistic that we may see outbreaks of violence in regions over politics. The summer of love put the cards on the table.

I started this thread to get some other points of view. I know everyone in this forum wants a better country for America. We just disagree what that looks like.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat

Damn. Quoting a Kathy Griffin tweet. Argument over.

 

[FairWarning]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat

Damn. Quoting a Kathy Griffin tweet. Argument over.

It’s a great career move,. her second most memorable stunt, after her beheading of Trump. idk how this can be topped, Hollyweird will try though.

 

[BassNBrew]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: ‘Squad’ Rep. Bowman predicts ‘civil war’ if GOP takes control in midterms​

By Callie Patteson June 14, 2022 10:17am

https://nypost.com/2022/06/14/squad-rep-bowman-warns-of-civil-war-if-gop-takes-midterms

Direct Headline: ‘Civil War Is Here’: MSNBC Host Says There’s ‘No Dealing’ With Conservatives​

By Harold Hutchison August 19, 2022 10:05 AM ET

https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/19/cross-msnbc-civil-war/

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat


******

You don't say....

I don't think we will ever see a true civil war II in this country with people putting on uniforms for their side.

I think it is realistic that we may see outbreaks of violence in regions over politics. The summer of love put the cards on the table.

I started this thread to get some other points of view. I know everyone in this forum wants a better country for America. We just disagree what that looks like.

Yeah...civil war is media bait. Our civil war will be fought on facebook and twitter. The winners will be those not on facebook and twitter.

 

[massraider]

Yeah...civil war is media bait. Our civil war will be fought on facebook and twitter. The winners will be those not on facebook and twitter.

Exactly. People in this bubble think everyone is as hyped as they are, when in fact everyone rolls their eyes when Aunt Jeanie starts talking politics.

We all have it WAY TOO GOOD to start warring. These people just re-upped their streaming services, and the new Boba Fett series is gonna start so you know, hold off on the muskets and bayonets there, Johnny Protest.

 

[rockaction]

We all have it WAY TOO GOOD to start warring. These people just re-upped their streaming services, and the new Boba Fett series is gonna start so you know, hold off on the muskets and bayonets there, Johnny Protest.

I really pray that this is the case. But there is a significant underclass on both sides of the aisle that has, in their perception, no material advantage to lose. Of course, they might not understand how much even a basic meal involves in terms of the economy functioning properly. I think they're ignorant of the cost of war and agitate for it when they see hot-button issues come to the fore.

I agree with you to an extent, though. The more bread and circuses that can paper over our major divide, the better. But it might be rotting from within, too, ripe for a dictator.

 

[Max Power]

Only one group is talking about Civil War, and dividing up the country, by the way

Direct Headline: ‘Squad’ Rep. Bowman predicts ‘civil war’ if GOP takes control in midterms​

By Callie Patteson June 14, 2022 10:17am

https://nypost.com/2022/06/14/squad-rep-bowman-warns-of-civil-war-if-gop-takes-midterms

Direct Headline: ‘Civil War Is Here’: MSNBC Host Says There’s ‘No Dealing’ With Conservatives​

By Harold Hutchison August 19, 2022 10:05 AM ET

https://dailycaller.com/2022/08/19/cross-msnbc-civil-war/

Direct Headline: Kathy Griffin Blasted For Telling People They’ll Get ‘Civil War’ Unless They Vote Democrat​

By Virginia Kruta Sep 7, 2022

https://www.dailywire.com/news/kath...heyll-get-civil-war-unless-they-vote-democrat


******

You don't say....

I don't think we will ever see a true civil war II in this country with people putting on uniforms for their side.

I think it is realistic that we may see outbreaks of violence in regions over politics. The summer of love put the cards on the table.

I started this thread to get some other points of view. I know everyone in this forum wants a better country for America. We just disagree what that looks like.

Yeah...civil war is media bait. Our civil war will be fought on facebook and twitter. The winners will be those not on facebook and twitter.

So sadly Bill Gates addressed it. That means its main stream. It's on the radar

 

[GordonGekko]

I don't think we will ever see a true civil war II in this country with people putting on uniforms for their side.

I think it is realistic that we may see outbreaks of violence in regions over politics. The summer of love put the cards on the table.

I started this thread to get some other points of view. I know everyone in this forum wants a better country for America. We just disagree what that looks like.

Max, the best answer will always be "bifurcation"

Let Conservatives and Republicans live with other Conservatives and Republicans in towns, cities and states that align to their value systems.

Let the liberals, leftists, Democrats, wokesters, radicals, etc, etc all do the same somewhere else.

That's the only fix possible.

But yes, I see widespread political violence coming. It won't take long. Lots of people are going to die. Most of the radicals in the PSF laugh it off because the impact is not the same for them. They have zero idea what it's like to be a Conservative and have so many institutions lined up against us. What they don't see is the "cancel culture" can flip a 180, and then what happens?

I do not want to see widespread political violence happen. But I don't see a way to stop the inevitable.

The best thing Conservatives and Republicans can do right now is withdraw all our business and money from those that enable the politics and policies we don't agree with and keep doing that. That is the best non violent response. Demonetize everyone who pushes woke and identity politics. Everyone is a tough guy until their children are starving because of their unhinged tribalism.

I'd be happy to have you as a neighbor Max. You're a good trooper. The rest of these radical woke low speed REMFs though can go live somewhere else and watch their homes and cities burn to the ground.

 

[massraider]

OK, so the radicals are the ones that are NOT predicting Civil War?

That's some deep thinkin' right thurr