"Americans Dramatically Misunderstand Risk of Dying from Covid" ...You Don't Say (1 Viewer)

[Da Guru]

This cannot be true. I would love to see proof of this... link? 

It is pretty much true out of panic.   That is why our hospitals were overwhelmed at first.  Now at U-M where my niece is a nurse there are plenty of empty beds again and they are treating COVID patients as they would the flu and being sent home but asking them to self quarantine for safety.

U-M now has a glut of ventilators not being used.  Most of the people being hospitalized now for COVID are elderly with pre-existing health issues.

COVID is here to stay so Hopefully the death toll continues to fall in line with the yearly average of the flu in the future.

 

[supermike80]

It is pretty much true out of panic.   That is why our hospitals were overwhelmed at first.  Now at U-M where my niece is a nurse there are plenty of empty beds again and they are treating COVID patients as they would the flu and being sent home but asking them to self quarantine for safety.

U-M now has a glut of ventilators not being used.  Most of the people being hospitalized now for COVID are elderly with pre-existing health issues.

COVID is here to stay so Hopefully the death toll continues to fall in line with the yearly average of the flu in the future.

I was gonna follow up with why don't we need as many ventilators as we needed in the past but you really can't ask questions that go against the talking points here, posters get super mad....But thank you for raising it.

 

[Da Guru]

I was gonna follow up with why don't we need as many ventilators as we needed in the past but you really can't ask questions that go against the talking points here, posters get super mad....But thank you for raising it.

Not sure why anyone would get mad.  Like any pandemic doctors were in uncharted waters trying to figure things out.

 

[moleculo]

Welcome to the PSF, where you can get your daily reaffirmation of why our country is horrible and the citizens hate it.

this is an absolutely awful take and I really wish people would stop equating criticism with hate.

I love this country.  I believe this is the greatest country in the world - we have an unlimited ability to creatively solve problems and figure things out.  That's why it pains me so much to see us struggle with this, when most of the rest of the developed world is clearly doing better.  

Look - If I have a straight A kid who is suddenly getting D's, I'm concerned.  It doesn't mean I don't love my kid if I want her to get better - figure out what is wrong and address the problem.

This country is not doing well right now.  That's undeniable.  Failing to acknowledge our flaws prevents us from getting back to where we should be.

 

[supermike80]

this is an absolutely awful take and I really wish people would stop equating criticism with hate.

I love this country.  I believe this is the greatest country in the world - we have an unlimited ability to creatively solve problems and figure things out.  That's why it pains me so much to see us struggle with this, when most of the rest of the developed world is clearly doing better.  

Look - If I have a straight A kid who is suddenly getting D's, I'm concerned.  It doesn't mean I don't love my kid if I want her to get better - figure out what is wrong and address the problem.

This country is not doing well right now.  That's undeniable.  Failing to acknowledge our flaws prevents us from getting back to where we should be.

That's ALWAYS the defense too. Always..."I love this country but I am going to point out it's flaws so it can fix itself"

Except it happens over and over and over again.  It's not an awful take.  If a parent constantly points out the flaws of their kid, and never points out anything good about their kid...Know what I'm going to think?  "Wow, that parent sure doesnt seem to like his kid much."

 

[Mile High]

That's ALWAYS the defense too. Always..."I love this country but I am going to point out it's flaws so it can fix itself"

Don't think much of the federal government but love my state. Where does that fit me in at?

 

[moleculo]

That's ALWAYS the defense too. Always..."I love this country but I am going to point out it's flaws so it can fix itself"

Except it happens over and over and over again.  It's not an awful take.  If a parent constantly points out the flaws of their kid, and never points out anything good about their kid...Know what I'm going to think?  "Wow, that parent sure doesnt seem to like his kid much."

and, what do you think of people who refuse to discipline their kids?  Letting them run around making D's and not say a word?

 

[matuski]

This sentence has nothing to do with what I wrote and makes me think that you must have accidentally responded to the wrong post.

Right post.  It is just that hard for people to consider anything between point A and point Z.

For example a person that would like to get COVID, get it over with (likely because they are in the broad demographic that COVID doesn't present much risk to).. AND knock it out in a way that does not put others at risk.  

 

[supermike80]

and, what do you think of people who refuse to discipline their kids?  Letting them run around making D's and not say a word?

I think you are missing the point.  It's fine to say your kid did something bad or the country did something bad.  But that's ALL THAT EVER HAPPENS HERE.....And I say, when you hear someone continually tell you how awful our country is I will tell you in reply I get the impression that person doesn't love this counrty.

Honestly how can you?  If we suck at so many things how can you possibly love it?  Makes no sense.  Id respect the posters here more if they just said they DONT like America and hope one day they will again.  Least that would be more truthful.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

“super”

 

[Tool]

I think you are missing the point.  It's fine to say your kid did something bad or the country did something bad.  But that's ALL THAT EVER HAPPENS HERE.....And I say, when you hear someone continually tell you how awful our country is I will tell you in reply I get the impression that person doesn't love this counrty.

Honestly how can you?  If we suck at so many things how can you possibly love it?  Makes no sense.  Id respect the posters here more if they just said they DONT like America and hope one day they will again.  Least that would be more truthful.

Make America Great Again.

 

[Joe Summer]

This sentence has nothing to do with what I wrote and makes me think that you must have accidentally responded to the wrong post.

Right post.  It is just that hard for people to consider anything between point A and point Z.

For example a person that would like to get COVID, get it over with (likely because they are in the broad demographic that COVID doesn't present much risk to).. AND knock it out in a way that does not put others at risk.  

...and I said that I had zero confidence that Trip would do that. No need to twist the situation to fit your narrative, guy.

 

[The Commish]

But that's ALL THAT EVER HAPPENS HERE

Silver linings thread flies directly in the face of this nonsense.

Id respect the posters here more if they just said they DONT like America and hope one day they will again.

Like the sitting President and his MAGA bull####?  No thanks.

 

[matuski]

...and I said that I had zero confidence that Trip would do that. No need to twist the situation to fit your narrative, guy.

This response confirms my narrative, guy.  

 

[TripItUp]

And here we again demonstrate the inability for people to process non binary options in this world.

The inability to distinguish anywhere along the spectrum between two extremes.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

I think you are missing the point.  It's fine to say your kid did something bad or the country did something bad.  But that's ALL THAT EVER HAPPENS HERE.....And I say, when you hear someone continually tell you how awful our country is I will tell you in reply I get the impression that person doesn't love this counrty.

Honestly how can you?  If we suck at so many things how can you possibly love it?  Makes no sense.  Id respect the posters here more if they just said they DONT like America and hope one day they will again.  Least that would be more truthful.

Do you truly believe that we shouldn’t criticize questionable behavior? Particularly when there is so much obvious criminal behavior surrounding the elected, and so-called leader of our country?

It seems like you are missing the point. I agree with some of what you say. I think a lot of this is blown way out of proportion. But I have also not suffered very much. My parents, and my wife’s parents are still alive. They are all high-risk, and they are all still alive. My kids are smart and healthy. My wife and I are both essential workers. We have suitable income. 

But many, many people are not as fortunate as I am. And I want to respect their struggles. And I will make every effort necessary to help out my brothers and sisters. This starts with listening to the experts, and following instructions so as not to make things harder than they need to be. It’s really not that hard to just do the right thing. 

 

[Stealthycat]

I just want to make sure I understand. In order to protect my parents, who are in their 80s, it’s cool to let the virus spread to many more people, increasing their risk of contracting it, when there is an 80% chance they will die?

people in their 80's every year protect themselves when bouts of the flu come around ... covid19 is no different in that

anyone older or immune compromised needs EVERY SINGLE VIRAL OUTBREAK to be careful and pay attention - that's universal every day, week, month and year

and we don't need to shut down the economy for it and we never have

 

[Stealthycat]

just remember

IDPH  Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

 

[-jb-]

people in their 80's every year protect themselves when bouts of the flu come around ... covid19 is no different in that

anyone older or immune compromised needs EVERY SINGLE VIRAL OUTBREAK to be careful and pay attention - that's universal every day, week, month and year

and we don't need to shut down the economy for it and we never have

Thanks. I think we just have different perspectives on the contagiousness of this. #nottheflubro

 

[Stealthycat]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

 

[Stealthycat]

Thanks. I think we just have different perspectives on the contagiousness of this. #nottheflubro

give me statistics on the contagiousness of this covid19

 

[lazyike]

Those numbers are not accurate because most countries, particularly the large ones, are not accurately capturing the data.

Our numbers would be similar to the other large countries with similar densities...maybe slightly higher due to social variables.

You should be a spokesman for the Trump administration.

 

[TripItUp]

You should be a spokesman for the Trump administration.

Thank you for your profound contribution to this thread.

 

[-jb-]

give me statistics on the contagiousness of this covid19

You’ve seen them posted on this board before. I know you think that half of the reported deaths are not due to covid. If you look at the excess death rates since it hit here, we are pushing 200k already.  Not here to convince you to move from your position and I’ve got mine. 

 

[turnerj0]

I think you are missing the point.  It's fine to say your kid did something bad or the country did something bad.  But that's ALL THAT EVER HAPPENS HERE.....And I say, when you hear someone continually tell you how awful our country is I will tell you in reply I get the impression that person doesn't love this counrty.

Honestly how can you?  If we suck at so many things how can you possibly love it?  Makes no sense.  Id respect the posters here more if they just said they DONT like America and hope one day they will again.  Least that would be more truthful.

1) "That's all that every happens here" is demonstrably false. While people tend to focus on the negative (a psychological issue not limited to political discussion and certainly not to liberals), there are many threads in this forum that have people espousing positive viewpoints, and some threads even dedicated completely to that. It probably is true that there are more negative posts right now than average, but most likely that is because there is a lot of horrible stuff going on right now. Whether you think it is the fault of the president or not, with more than 170,000 deaths from a historic pandemic, widespread social unrest, and the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression all happening within the last 6 months, it is hard to argue that this isn't the worst period for our country in decades. Maybe since the Civil War. 

2) To me it is a very odd position to look at criticism as demonstrating a lack of love. When I see people who criticize their children more than I think is warranted, I typically don't doubt their love for the child. I may disagree that their actions are effective, but I assume that they are still trying to do what is best for their child. 

3) I would think that one of the greatest signs of ACTUALLY loving America and not wrapping oneself in faux patriotism is to put country above party and/or personal interests. I see millions of everyday Americans who stay home not because they fear for themselves, but because they believe it is the right thing to do for their community, doing this. I see a number of public servants, from government employees to health care workers doing this. I see some ex-Republicans, the people associated with the Lincoln Group for instance, doing this. While I don't think it is the primary motivation of many Democratic politicians, I do even see some of them doing it. I do not see that being the case of any current Republican politicians (with maybe one or two exceptions) or of anyone who pushes false information about the pandemic. 

4) Most importantly, the reason America is great is because of our core values that the country was founded on. The reason America should be loved is because it is has a foundation rooted in classical liberalism. It is great because it was created as a nation of representative government, equality between people, intellectual curiosity, etc. It has very often failed, sometimes in tragic fashion, to fully embrace and implement those core values, but the overall course of its 240+ year history is a movement toward a more perfect union through the promotion of those values. That is why me and many other people love the United States. America's greatness does not come from the Republican Party or the Democratic party, it does not come from any particular beliefs that either of those parties holds, it does not come a really high stock market, it does not come from using individualism or freedom (which on their own are good things) as a lame excuse to ignore science, and it certainly does not come from people like Donald Trump. I think that many of the people who are speaking out in the strongest terms right now understand that and it is out of love that they are so critical right now. 

 

[lazyike]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

There are some people that like to see their kids and grand kids who are carrying the coronavirus. Not much for calling it the golden years if you have to stay home without any visitors.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Not sure why anyone would get mad.  Like any pandemic doctors were in uncharted waters trying to figure things out.

Insulted is a better word. As I stated in my response to supermike earlier, the threshold for admission was slightly lower when the pandemic hit. But everyone wasn't getting admitting from the get-go.

Do you think areas that were hit later just didn't get the memo on appropriate admission criteria?

How do you explain places like HI, where we're admitting more covid cases now than ever?

I'm glad MI is doing better at the moment, but you're likely unaware of all the variables that contributed to the earlier surge vs. current case load.

 

[OrtonToOlsen]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

Aren’t you out on the pro racquetball tour or something?

 

[The Future Champs]

just remember

IDPH  Dr. Ezike explained that anyone who passes away after testing positive for the virus is included in that category.

"If you were in hospice and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means technically even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it's still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who's listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that that was the cause of the death, but they had COVID at the time of the death." Dr. Ezike outlined.

A good point, but unfortunately demolished by the rise In deaths above the expected level.  

 

[supermike80]

1) "That's all that every happens here" is demonstrably false. While people tend to focus on the negative (a psychological issue not limited to political discussion and certainly not to liberals), there are many threads in this forum that have people espousing positive viewpoints, and some threads even dedicated completely to that. It probably is true that there are more negative posts right now than average, but most likely that is because there is a lot of horrible stuff going on right now. Whether you think it is the fault of the president or not, with more than 170,000 deaths from a historic pandemic, widespread social unrest, and the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression all happening within the last 6 months, it is hard to argue that this isn't the worst period for our country in decades. Maybe since the Civil War. 

2) To me it is a very odd position to look at criticism as demonstrating a lack of love. When I see people who criticize their children more than I think is warranted, I typically don't doubt their love for the child. I may disagree that their actions are effective, but I assume that they are still trying to do what is best for their child. 

3) I would think that one of the greatest signs of ACTUALLY loving America and not wrapping oneself in faux patriotism is to put country above party and/or personal interests. I see millions of everyday Americans who stay home not because they fear for themselves, but because they believe it is the right thing to do for their community, doing this. I see a number of public servants, from government employees to health care workers doing this. I see some ex-Republicans, the people associated with the Lincoln Group for instance, doing this. While I don't think it is the primary motivation of many Democratic politicians, I do even see some of them doing it. I do not see that being the case of any current Republican politicians (with maybe one or two exceptions) or of anyone who pushes false information about the pandemic. 

4) Most importantly, the reason America is great is because of our core values that the country was founded on. The reason America should be loved is because it is has a foundation rooted in classical liberalism. It is great because it was created as a nation of representative government, equality between people, intellectual curiosity, etc. It has very often failed, sometimes in tragic fashion, to fully embrace and implement those core values, but the overall course of its 240+ year history is a movement toward a more perfect union through the promotion of those values. That is why me and many other people love the United States. America's greatness does not come from the Republican Party or the Democratic party, it does not come from any particular beliefs that either of those parties holds, it does not come a really high stock market, it does not come from using individualism or freedom (which on their own are good things) as a lame excuse to ignore science, and it certainly does not come from people like Donald Trump. I think that many of the people who are speaking out in the strongest terms right now understand that and it is out of love that they are so critical right now. 

Detailed post.  You put a lot of thought into your reply.  

 

[Joe Bryant]

1) "That's all that every happens here" is demonstrably false. While people tend to focus on the negative (a psychological issue not limited to political discussion and certainly not to liberals), there are many threads in this forum that have people espousing positive viewpoints, and some threads even dedicated completely to that. It probably is true that there are more negative posts right now than average, but most likely that is because there is a lot of horrible stuff going on right now. Whether you think it is the fault of the president or not, with more than 170,000 deaths from a historic pandemic, widespread social unrest, and the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression all happening within the last 6 months, it is hard to argue that this isn't the worst period for our country in decades. Maybe since the Civil War. 

2) To me it is a very odd position to look at criticism as demonstrating a lack of love. When I see people who criticize their children more than I think is warranted, I typically don't doubt their love for the child. I may disagree that their actions are effective, but I assume that they are still trying to do what is best for their child. 

3) I would think that one of the greatest signs of ACTUALLY loving America and not wrapping oneself in faux patriotism is to put country above party and/or personal interests. I see millions of everyday Americans who stay home not because they fear for themselves, but because they believe it is the right thing to do for their community, doing this. I see a number of public servants, from government employees to health care workers doing this. I see some ex-Republicans, the people associated with the Lincoln Group for instance, doing this. While I don't think it is the primary motivation of many Democratic politicians, I do even see some of them doing it. I do not see that being the case of any current Republican politicians (with maybe one or two exceptions) or of anyone who pushes false information about the pandemic. 

4) Most importantly, the reason America is great is because of our core values that the country was founded on. The reason America should be loved is because it is has a foundation rooted in classical liberalism. It is great because it was created as a nation of representative government, equality between people, intellectual curiosity, etc. It has very often failed, sometimes in tragic fashion, to fully embrace and implement those core values, but the overall course of its 240+ year history is a movement toward a more perfect union through the promotion of those values. That is why me and many other people love the United States. America's greatness does not come from the Republican Party or the Democratic party, it does not come from any particular beliefs that either of those parties holds, it does not come a really high stock market, it does not come from using individualism or freedom (which on their own are good things) as a lame excuse to ignore science, and it certainly does not come from people like Donald Trump. I think that many of the people who are speaking out in the strongest terms right now understand that and it is out of love that they are so critical right now. 

I hope you're right. I'm not sure though about explaining the behavior of people as just loving their country and the ideals it was founded on.

One of the more dangerous or damaging types of indignation can be righteous indignation. I see it used on the right side in the "Well, Jesus got mad and flipped the tables in the temple". I see it used on the left side too. 

The other big thing is we as society seem pretty awful at empathy. There's no room for nuance. If you're not completely on board with my position, you're lame or a denier.  People seem reluctant to take time to try and understand another. I'm guilty too. I get it. Time is scarce. And it can feel way better to high-five the like minded people in your bubble than to engage "the other". 

Again, I hope you're right. In the meantime, I hope we can all be more cool to each other. 

 

[The General]

people in their 80's every year protect themselves when bouts of the flu come around ... covid19 is no different in that

anyone older or immune compromised needs EVERY SINGLE VIRAL OUTBREAK to be careful and pay attention - that's universal every day, week, month and year

and we don't need to shut down the economy for it and we never have

Why do you think governors in states where cases were spiking chose to have various levels of shutdowns and rules in place for how people can gather?

Why was this necessary now and not in past flu seasons?

 

[KarmaPolice]

Im asking..Seriously.  for the last time..really, LAST TIME. I am not blaming the medical community....I'm JUST asking if anyone here things that the reason the death counts are improving, at least here in Michigan, is because the medical community has improved their care standards over when the pandemic started.  My god..I swear you guys on this board are a lot of effort.

I LITERALLY said, right after that that I didn't feel it was deliberate.  Man what does one have to do here.  There were no assertions.  Why are you guys on this board so angry all the time?  What gives?

 

[dkp993]

Aren’t you out on the pro racquetball tour or something?

Packin’ heat too.  Just in case 

 

[KarmaPolice]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

SC, you have posted multiple times about the level of security you have at your house for the minuscule chance of a break in.  You have also claimed this is not out of fear.  

Now why turn it around and claim people are afraid because of the precaution they want to take for Covid? 

Also, these are decisions that effect all of us in the community, not just our family and home.  

 

[The Commish]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

SC, you have posted multiple times about the level of security you have at your house for the minuscule chance of a break in.  You have also claimed this is not out of fear.  

Now why turn it around and claim people are afraid because of the precaution they want to take for Covid? 

Also, these are decisions that effect all of us in the community, not just our family and home. 

Apples/Oranges.  He chooses to strengthen his arsenal.  MANY people don't have a choice between staying safe and making a living.  I mean, I guess technically it IS a choice, but if you're building your position on something like that (and I've seen him do that kind of thing MANY times around here) you've already lost and aren't really in it for honest discussion.

Or....projection...maybe both?

 

[TripItUp]

I don't understand though ..... if you are a person who's scared of covid-19 virus why would you go out into the world at all and be around anyone who may or may not wear a mask ?

personal responsibility - STAY HOME and isolate/quarantine 

Exactly.

If you are afraid of the virus stay at home.  Don't ruin the rest of our lives and the country's economy and the geo-political balance etc. etc.

It's as if the Democrats and liberals are trying to ruin the world, and really for no good reason other than they don't understand the risks or heaven forbid because they don't like the President.

It is shameful IMHO and its consequences may be felt for decades if Americans don't wisen up with risk-based solutions.

 

[KarmaPolice]

Still dont get this "I'm not afraid of the virus" chest puffing shtick.  

 

[KarmaPolice]

Apples/Oranges.  He chooses to strengthen his arsenal.  MANY people don't have a choice between staying safe and making a living.  I mean, I guess technically it IS a choice, but if you're building your position on something like that (and I've seen him do that kind of thing MANY times around here) you've already lost and aren't really in it for honest discussion.

Or....projection...maybe both?

Not only the guns, but has talked about his security at his house etc.  

Yeah, apples to oranges a bit, but trying to understand stand this position of not being afraid but taking a lot precautions for something pretty unlikely to happen (and only effects a few people), but accusing others of being afraid of a virus because they want precautions for something unlikely to happen (but effects the whole community) 

 

[SoBeDad]

About 60 Veterans from WWII, age 93+ plan to travel to Oakland, via commercial flights, then to Hawaii via a half-filled charter to commemorate the 75th anniversary of Japan's surrender. The case fatality rate for those aged 90+ is about 24%. 

>> “I want to go back because that day, as much as I remember it, what happened, why we were there, the fact that it was the end of the realities of war and killing and all, it was the first day that I had to start answering, ‘What am I going to do with the rest of my life?’" Pedersen said.

As of Wednesday, about 60 veterans, each with one companion, were set to attend, but the number has fluctuated as some who wanted to come have died and others have requested to participate last minute.

Hawaii is expected to grant modified quarantine orders for those traveling for the anniversary, allowing them to attend the official ceremony and other events. Otherwise, people coming to the islands are required to quarantine for two weeks.

Gov. David Ige's office said this week that the details are still under review but that the state will do everything possible to ensure the veterans are safely honored.

Defense Secretary Mark Esper and other senior U.S. officials plan to attend the events at Pearl Harbor. John Supple, a Defense Department spokeman, said Esper is aware of the recent spike of COVID-19 cases on Oahu and everyone in his entourage will be tested for coronavirus before they arrive in Hawaii. <<

I'm guessing most of the veterans who are going understand the risk, and will take maximum precaution. But, I have mixed feelings because most veterans, if not all,  are travelling with family and friends who will be exposed and some of them will also be old. OTOH, the average life expectancy for a 95 year old male is 2.8 years. But going out with COVID and the associated isolation would be a bad way to go.

 

[The Commish]

Not only the guns, but has talked about his security at his house etc.  

Yeah, apples to oranges a bit, but trying to understand stand this position of not being afraid but taking a lot precautions for something pretty unlikely to happen (and only effects a few people), but accusing others of being afraid of a virus because they want precautions for something unlikely to happen (but effects the whole community) 

GL GB...... its completely illogical/ inconsistent even if  you  got cogent responses

 

[Ilov80s]

That's ALWAYS the defense too. Always..."I love this country but I am going to point out it's flaws so it can fix itself"

Except it happens over and over and over again.  It's not an awful take.  If a parent constantly points out the flaws of their kid, and never points out anything good about their kid...Know what I'm going to think?  "Wow, that parent sure doesnt seem to like his kid much."

A kid needs love, affirmation, patience, encouragement, etc. A country is a bunch of laws on a piece of paper, a border drawn on a map, an organization of States, courts, etc. It does not require love or encouragement or praise. I love the people of our country, I love places in our country, I love things people from our country have done but I don't love  our laws, court systems or administrations. They represent a means for providing protection, fairness and efficiency to the lives of the people. We govern ourselves through the rules and procedures of the country. It's not something to love or not love. If I think a system of the country or government is not working correctly, I will complain about it just like I would complain if any device built for a function was not working properly. 

ETA: for clarity, when I said "I don't love our laws...". I do not mean that I think are laws or courts are necessarily bad. I just meant that the feeling and emotion of love is something I will never feel for a legal system. People, pets, art, food I can love. Legally binding governmental agreements and procedures, not so much. 

 

[Stealthycat]

hmmmm

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29729892/source-all-77-nfl-positive-tests-return-negative

 

[Stealthycat]

There are some people that like to see their kids and grand kids who are carrying the coronavirus. Not much for calling it the golden years if you have to stay home without any visitors.

that's a concern every flu season .... be careful, pay attention ... its really that simple and if you want to risk it then risk it

don't blame the president if you want to risk it

 

[Stealthycat]

SC, you have posted multiple times about the level of security you have at your house for the minuscule chance of a break in.  You have also claimed this is not out of fear.  

Now why turn it around and claim people are afraid because of the precaution they want to take for Covid? 

Also, these are decisions that effect all of us in the community, not just our family and home.  

hey, I'm all about security

if you want to wear a mask go for it .... goggles? yes. Football helmet and bubble wrap yourself if you think that's going to help against whatever it is you're protecting yourself against

I don't force you to own a gun, have security lights of cameras and I am not going to force you to lock your doors. That's YOUR choice

Why isn't that the same when viral outbreaks happen?

 

[dkp993]

hey, I'm all about security

if you want to wear a mask go for it .... goggles? yes. Football helmet and bubble wrap yourself if you think that's going to help against whatever it is you're protecting yourself against

I don't force you to own a gun, have security lights of cameras and I am not going to force you to lock your doors. That's YOUR choice

Why isn't that the same when viral outbreaks happen?

Because of one small detail.  YOUR choice in you keeping your home secure won’t kill some other person going out to eat at a restaurant like YOU walking around spreading a virus during a vital outbreak can.  
 

It’s the unwillingness of people to understand their effects on others that keeps things like this going.  

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

hey, I'm all about security

if you want to wear a mask go for it .... goggles? yes. Football helmet and bubble wrap yourself if you think that's going to help against whatever it is you're protecting yourself against

I don't force you to own a gun, have security lights of cameras and I am not going to force you to lock your doors. That's YOUR choice

Why isn't that the same when viral outbreaks happen?

The point of wearing a mask isn't usually to protect the person wearing the mask.   

 

[supermike80]

Still dont get this "I'm not afraid of the virus" chest puffing shtick.  

It's not chest puffing.  I'm not afraid of a cold or the flu.  I just don't believe this disease is anywhere near as deadly as first presented when we shut everything down and destroyed thousands of lives and families.

 

[Stealthycat]

The point of wearing a mask isn't usually to protect the person wearing the mask.   

I didn't make the connection between home security and wearing a mask, someone else did

but ... if wearing a mask protects everyone else, then again, no worries to go and vote because everyone is wearing a mask and we're all good, right ? 

 

[Stealthycat]

A good point, but unfortunately demolished by the rise In deaths above the expected level.  

maybe people are dying because OF the freak out ?  I mean the massive fall out from the freak-out is at many levels and depths and everyone who called for it knew the consequences right ??