Skoo
Footballguy
I'm really trying to help you out, but you're not making sense at this point.Ok then explain me exactly the treatment, which by the way doesn't exist, does.
What exactly are you asking?
I'm really trying to help you out, but you're not making sense at this point.Ok then explain me exactly the treatment, which by the way doesn't exist, does.
You are utterly awful. "Being tested" is not "there is a treatment" You sir are out of this conversation and quite frankly shame on you.ah...I see, it's the lesson in what "treatment" means in this context....sorry, don't have the energy and I'm not confident it would matter to you what info I gave you in the first place. I'll just leave it at this. There are drug cocktails and therapeutics being tested with some success. Those range from helping to keep the virus from spreading to vital organs to "comfort" kinds of practices that are all considered "treatments" for the virus. We've learned that some approaches don't work and have altered those approaches accordingly.
I am asking specifically what the covid treatment does and why we cannot utilize it in this country and get people back to work without masks on their faces at football games.I'm really trying to help you out, but you're not making sense at this point.
What exactly are you asking?
Its not everyone else's fault that you try to play gotcha with how you phrase statements and questions.You guys aggravate me sometimes. You cant look past how ridiculous you look and sound when you say there are treatments for covid but we still have businesses shut down, we don't have sports..sending kids to school is a gigantic debate. I just don't understand you.
Most people who become ill with COVID-19 will be able to recover at home. No specific treatments for COVID-19 exist right now. But some of the same things you do to feel better if you have the flu — getting enough rest, staying well hydrated, and taking medications to relieve fever and aches and pains — also help with COVID-19.
In the meantime, scientists are working hard to develop effective treatments. Therapies that are under investigation include drugs that have been used to treat malaria and autoimmune diseases; antiviral drugs that were developed for other viruses, and antibodies from people who have recovered from COVID-19.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treatments-for-covid-19
Can we get an update on evidence vs. proof again?yikes...really? Sadly, I can't tell if this is serious or if we need to have a lesson on what the word "treatment" means in this context.
Oh, ok. I don't know the details but Remdesivir has been the best treatment so far. It's a treatment, which means it helps people survive once contracting COVID.I am asking specifically what the covid treatment does and why we cannot utilize it in this country and get people back to work without masks on their faces at football games.
Right...one from April...since then the China conspiracy has been revisited and well, doesn't really fit the narrative you presented as "fact" and then one from June stating that India was ill-equipped to report accurately. Would you say that our inability to report correctly and their inability to report correctly would be a general wash from a statistical perspective? Seems like they are having similar issues as we are. That's to say, generally speaking, for all those countries like India and the US who are struggling, isn't it logical to acknowledge they are all screwed up and the best numbers we have are the ones they are providing?There's plenty of data out there...I spent 30 seconds and provided two links.
This cannot be true. I would love to see proof of this... link?Well...I don't think it's further from the truth. You might disagree, which is fine. But as I said. In Michigan, Covid diagnosis meant immediate hospitalization. Now, it doesn't.
We have flu vaccines...as well as treatments to fight symptoms (fever and so on...).You are utterly awful. "Being tested" is not "there is a treatment" You sir are out of this conversation and quite frankly shame on you.
PLEASE..someone explain to me what this "treatment" does. And why we cannot roll it out to everyone.
We have a flu treatment...it's not a cure..but it's a treatment. We have a treatment for pneumonia..Not a cure, but a treatment. We dont shelter in place because of those things.
You guys always try to be so smart..Prove your logic here.
Like I said....an understand of what "treatment" is in this context is imperative. It's pretty clear you have no interest in that discussion. I like that you think this is anything close to resembling a "conversation" though.You are utterly awful. "Being tested" is not "there is a treatment" You sir are out of this conversation and quite frankly shame on you.
PLEASE..someone explain to me what this "treatment" does. And why we cannot roll it out to everyone.
We have a flu treatment...it's not a cure..but it's a treatment. We have a treatment for pneumonia..Not a cure, but a treatment. We dont shelter in place because of those things.
You guys always try to be so smart..Prove your logic here.
it's notThis cannot be true. I would love to see proof of this... link?
True with any treatment. So why are we keeping everyone home? Why are small businesses being destroyed? Why cant we get our kids back to school? Why cant we play football?Oh, ok. I don't know the details but Remdesivir has been the best treatment so far. It's a treatment, which means it helps people survive once contracting COVID.
The parts I think you may be (intentionally) missing:
1. This does not mean NO ONE will die from COVID. It means LESS people will die after contracting COVID.
2. It does nothing to stop the spread of the virus.
Because over 170,000 Americans died over the last 5 months.True with any treatment. So why are we keeping everyone home? Why are small businesses being destroyed? Why cant we get our kids back to school? Why cant we play football?
But I thought we had a treatment? None of what you are saying is making any sense at allBecause over 170,000 Americans died over the last 5 months.
Not sure how to make it any simpler for you. I certainly tried.
A TREATMENT IS NOT A CUREBut I thought we had a treatment? None of what you are saying is making any sense at all
You keep saying this and it continues to make no sense I posted a link that says there is NO treatment. This has not been disputed. Commish posted info about trials, but that was a waste of time. What does this treatment do exactly? Please help me understand. What happens with this covid treatment?????A TREATMENT IS NOT A CURE
Ok, I'm done feeding the trolls everyone.
My bad.
So anti-virals are not treatments? I’m confused by what you’re trying to say.You keep saying this and it continues to make no sense I posted a link that says there is NO treatment. This has not been disputed. Commish posted info about trials, but that was a waste of time. What does this treatment do exactly? Please help me understand. What happens with this covid treatment?????
Sorry, I'm done acting as Google for the day.You keep saying this and it continues to make no sense I posted a link that says there is NO treatment. This has not been disputed. Commish posted info about trials, but that was a waste of time. What does this treatment do exactly? Please help me understand. What happens with this covid treatment?????
Anti-Vrals work on COVID? OMG this keeps getting better. I hope the big 10 reads this forum and reinstates football seasonSo anti-virals are not treatments? I’m confused by what you’re trying to say.
Well I don’t know the answer to this question. I do know that it is being studied and tested. Can you definitively say that it’s not working?Anti-Vrals work on COVID? OMG this keeps getting better. I hope the big 10 reads this forum and reinstates football season
What was wroing with my link from Harvard that said there is no treatment? I got it from Google too. Is your Google somehow better?Sorry, I'm done acting as Google for the day.
Take some time, do some research. There's tons of COVID-related information available on the internet.
This is probably a decent place to start: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/index.html
Best of luck in your research!
Studied and tested is not the same as "there is a treatment"Well I don’t know the answer to this question. I do know that it is being studied and tested. Can you definitively say that it’s not working?
You answered your own question. It's silly, actually. I bolded it for you.I swear on my life you guys are just just punking me. You just cant be serious
Is there a treatment for the coronavirus disease?
Currently, there are no specific drugs approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for treatment or prevention of COVID-19. Treatment remains largely supportive and includes prevention and management of complications.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pediatric-hcp.html#:~:text=Currently%2C there are no,and management of complications.
I wholeheartedly agree with you here.Studied and tested is not the same as "there is a treatment"
I think that even with perfect information informing perfect policy decisions wouldn't make as much of a difference as the shifting public perception of the "man on the street" when it comes to whether there will demand for products and services and the degree that there are those willing to supply it. I'm not saying that stay at home orders or x% occupancy or social distancing or etc. mandates have no impact, just that I think that the impact is far less than the fear, comfort, economic outlook, cabin fever, etc. of the consuming masses.moleculo said:do you mean the man on the street or policy makers? I'd argue that it's not really important what the man on the street thinks relative to someone charged with setting policy.Joe Bryant said:Accurately assessing risk.
or a cure, or a solution (those are different words for a reason). The reason to why we are "closed" (which we aren't) is because people continue to refuse to social distance and wear masks. That's the answer to every legit "why" question he's put out there. For perspective, if everyone had done those two things starting immediately in March, we'd likely be talking about how bad team X was going to destroy team Y or how messed up the preseason college football rankings are.You answered your own question. It's silly, actually. I bolded it for you.
To give you a little clarification, treatment does NOT only equal drugs.
No, I would not say its a wash.Would you say that our inability to report correctly and their inability to report correctly would be a general wash from a statistical perspective? Seems like they are having similar issues as we are.
I actually agree....I was trying to give us the benefit of the doubt though.No, I would not say its a wash.
Too many other variables involved.
It’s not true. But instead of acknowledging he made a mistake, he insulted/patronized those who questioned the accuracy of his original statement.This cannot be true. I would love to see proof of this... link?
A week ago- America is the greatest countryThere's plenty of data out there...I spent 30 seconds and provided two links.
OK, let's try this again. The questions in the OP differ from your subsequent postings, or the message is delivered ineffectively. I've responded in red.supermike80 said:Do you guys think there is anything to the idea that the medical community botched this thing initially? No, I think we did the best we could based on the available knowledge of the virus and its treatment. Botched means unsuccessful because of being poorly done : spoiled by mistakes. In the absence of definitive data, covid-19 was initially handled like similar respiratory processes, using existing infrastructure, and I don't think it was a mistake to treat it that way at the time. I'm not saying it was deliberate or anything close to that.
However I remember here in MI if you were diagnosed with covid...bam...admitted to the hospital. This isn't exactly germane to your original question, though the implication is more people were dying of covid because they were hospitalized unnecessarily. Not only is your statement false (plenty of people weren't admitted, even early on), patients who eventually died of covid- 19 surely would not have done better by staying home. Now you're told to monitor like other things. Rest fluids get to the hospital if certain things happen. This is exactly the advice people with mild disease have always been given, though we err to hospitalize marginal patients and those with inadequate home resources, including some simply because they can't safely self-quarantine.
Michigan is seeing 400-700 or so new cases per day. But the death count is in single digits. Of course this is good but whats changed? A lot has changed.
1. Hospitals are better prepared for covid patients. We've converted a lot of beds to account for isolation needs. PPE is more readily available to facilitate their care and reduce spread to other sick patients and healthcare providers. ICU beds have also been expanded, in part because things like elective surgeries have been cancelled. Healthcare workers have been mobilized to help areas in need as well. Places like NYC and likely parts of MI were overwhelmed by the early surge, and suboptimal care (including excess deaths) surely resulted.
2. We understand the disease better, and manage it differently. While the majority of covid care is controlling symptoms (Tylenol, cough medicine and supplemental oxygen), we now know patients can tolerate low oxygen levels much better than other infections. As a result, we can delay or prevent mechanical ventilation, which is tough on the lungs even under the best circumstances. Avoiding a ventilator is associated with a much higher likelihood of surviving covid.
3. Other treatment strategies have evolved that are more specific (although not unique) to covid-19. Activity is minimized, proning is encouraged and medications to prevent clotting are utilized more aggressively than in other types of pneumonia.
4. As we've expanded our knowledge of the protean manifestations of covid-19, we are more aware of its complications like stroke, cardiomyopathy, kidney failure, blood clots, etc. Understanding what is possible helps to know what to look for, and modify treatment earlier when associated conditions arise.
5. While there is no cure, we have experimental and compassionate use treatments. Remdesivir, dexamethasone and convalescent plasma all appear to have some benefit (primarily reducing the duration of symptoms/hospitalization), though the evidence is limited. And there are a host of therapies targeting specific aspects of the "cytokine storm", most notably tocilizumab, though I'm sure the armchair immunologists/investors would include leronlimab as well.
As an aside, there are hardly any viral diseases which we can cure, but don't conflate absence of cure with inability to treat. HIV is probably the best example. And like HIV, even as treatments improve, we shouldn't dismiss the effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical interventions (safe sex for HIV; social distancing, cough/hand hygiene, masks for SARS-CoV-2).
6. Some people have suggested the virus has mutated into a less virulent, but more contagious form. While I think there may be some truth to this, we shouldn't assume this is permanent, as there's nothing stopping it from mutating further.
7. Early infections were skewed to more vulnerable populations, with nursing home residents disproportionately represented. With a greater percentage of young people being infected, it's understandable that mortality will drop. Moreover, expanded testing/contract tracing has allowed identification of more mild/asymptomatic cases.
8. Although I've never seen this studied, It's plausible that the average viral inoculum causing infection has decreased with greater public awareness of the disease. Ideally you'd prefer no exposure, but lower levels of virus are more likely to be contained by your immune system, and even partial compliance with masks, etc. probably impacts this.
As jack Nicholson said in the departed. "I think about this"
I think about it, too, especially when I see our hospital beds filling up with covid patients. In the last month, we've expanded from half a floor dedicated to covid care to three entire floors. Meanwhile our medical ICU is completely full and spilling over into surgical and other critical care units. Patients who used to go immediately to the ICU remain on the floor as well, even though they'd benefit from increased monitoring in a unit setting.
So please don't tell me to "calm down" - I'm calmly doing my job despite a bunch of people making it harder by dismissing the severity of the pandemic and ignoring simple preventative measures. It's hard to know exactly what balance is necessary to manage the economic and healthcare consequences, but from my perspective, American's aren't doing enough. Why? Because we fixate on flawed statistics like an individual's risk of dying, and try to assign blame elsewhere, instead of learning from countries that have managed the disease and gradually eased restrictions, primarily as a result of complying with NPIs.
This is a great post, all of it, it's too bad it's wasted on disingenuous trolls. Arguing somehow that they don't know the difference between a treatment and a cure, at least that is my understanding of this insanely stupid thread.OK, let's try this again. The questions in the OP differ from your subsequent postings, or the message is delivered ineffectively. I've responded in red.
Thanks. Agree it’s extremely frustrating, especially the politicization of science and medicine.This is a great post, all of it, it's too bad it's wasted on disingenuous trolls. Arguing somehow that they don't know the difference between a treatment and a cure, at least that is my understanding of this insanely stupid thread.
These people aren't interested in actually learning anything.
You guys are doing the Lord’s work in this thread. Trust that there are readers on the sidelines benefiting from good information being presented.But I haven’t given up on humanity. I hope a lightbulb will go off and some posters will “get it” without having to suffer personal tragedy. Or, as @Doug B previously noted, it’s always possible someone who isn’t posting may benefit from accurate information.
Regardless, I think ignorant and faulty statements about the pandemic need to addressed, even if it feeds a few trolls along the way.
Would you be willing to infect yourself to prove your point?TripItUp said:LINK HERE
I think it's clear that the liberal media and the Democratic party had an agenda in creating a fear for political gain. What a terrible thing to do.
100 percent.Would you be willing to infect yourself to prove your point?
I have zero doubt that there are millions of people in the country who feel exactly the same as you.100 percent.Would you be willing to infect yourself to prove your point?
People like this don’t care. They will infect others, The deniers that do fine will claim victory and then the ones that get sick show up at the hospital to risk healthcare workers lives. It’s infuriating. If there is a vaccine they deniers who refuse should get opted out of any treatment.I have zero doubt that there are millions of people in the country who feel exactly the same as you.
I also have zero confidence that if you were infected, that you would take all the precautions necessary to prevent the spread to others.
Good postings. Thank you for your thoughts. I am going to go with you do NOT think the medical community botched things early(I will admit, that was DEFINITELY a bad word to use. Wasn't my intention)OK, let's try this again. The questions in the OP differ from your subsequent postings, or the message is delivered ineffectively. I've responded in red.
Seems like a pretty large assumption.People like this don’t care. They will infect others
And here we again demonstrate the inability for people to process non binary options in this world.I have zero doubt that there are millions of people in the country who feel exactly the same as you.
I also have zero confidence that if you were infected, that you would take all the precautions necessary to prevent the spread to others.
This sentence has nothing to do with what I wrote and makes me think that you must have accidentally responded to the wrong post.And here we again demonstrate the inability for people to process non binary options in this world.I have zero doubt that there are millions of people in the country who feel exactly the same as you.
I also have zero confidence that if you were infected, that you would take all the precautions necessary to prevent the spread to others.
Welcome to the PSF, where you can get your daily reaffirmation of why our country is horrible and the citizens hate it.the insane thing is this is a purely American problem, it’s embarrassing