Amtrak derailment (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

Where's my violin dammit:http://www.inquisitr.com/2087086/amtrak-crash-survivor-tweets-about-lost-violin-outrage-ensues/

Holy ####

My daughter is a piano performance major at music school; she has a lot of musician friends, including violinists. That violinist was a professional violinist; I can guarantee you that was at least a $50k instrument and probably $100k+. And it's a very personal thing, tied directly to her livelihood. While it's "just an instrument" and not a person, I can understand her reaction to its loss. But then, I'm aspergian and don't really connect with "feelings" very well, anyhow.

she could have gone about it a different way. i.e. NOT Twitter and NOT smarmy.

I'm not worked up about it, but that is a pretty ####ty tweet that indicates a whole host of issues that this person likely has.

what kind of issues we talking, doc? jfc some people just have to be bothered at all times.

Like you following me around and criticizing a bunch of my posts and acting all bothered and getting personal? Like that?

It's pretty obvious what issues she might have. Try using your pulse. It might stand in for your brain just once.

 

[Billy Bats]

im pretty sure there are a few engineers on each train so i dont get how this guy was going so fast and nobody else did anything

It is OK to be going 100 mph is some places, just not the turns?

The speed limit prior to the 50mph through the curve is 80mph. Traveling through the city itself without hardly any straightaways, I would assume that 100mph would be excessive.

 

[Apple Jack]

at me following you around. you crack your brain open all over every current events/politics thread.

And do you mean issues like she's pissed off that amtrak's incompetence has led to both professional and personal hardship? that she was lucky to survive a 100mph train crash? that the instrument that pays her bills is missing and presumed destroyed, in the middle of concert season? Professional string musicians like that tend to be very sensitive to changes in equipment. Not to mention she probably considered that drawing public attention like that might give her a chance at getting her violin back faster if it was not destroyed. But I guess she's not allowed to be angry or attempt to rectify her situation since she didn't die.

 

[Apple Jack]

Not shocking that the measures weren't put in place before a wreck. Look at the Minn/St. Paul bridge incident and subsequent national conversation about the deteriorating state of bridges.

"Ssshhhhh....let the next guy propose a tax hike. And say a prayer that a collapse doesn't happen in my district."

 

[TheIronSheik]

Not shocking that the measures weren't put in place before a wreck. Look at the Minn/St. Paul bridge incident and subsequent national conversation about the deteriorating state of bridges.

"Ssshhhhh....let the next guy propose a tax hike. And say a prayer that a collapse doesn't happen in my district."

As I stated above, it was scheduled to be put in place sometime before the end of the year.

 

[timschochet]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

 

[Apple Jack]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

of course. was anything substantive appropriated in the wake of the I35 collapse? i dont think there was, nor since.

 

[Braktastic]

I can't help thinking about the plot to Unbreakable every time I see this news story. Hell, it even happened in Philadelphia. I blame Mr. Glass.

 

[Slapdash]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

of course. was anything substantive appropriated in the wake of the I35 collapse? i dont think there was, nor since.

Boehner is still searching for that elusive funding source.

 

[3C's]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

Maybe. Derailments are way down from the 80s but the Northeast Corridor is in serious need. http://www.nec-commission.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/NEC-Five-Year-Capital-Needs-Assessment-FY15-19.pdf

Down here, south of the NEC, CSX maintains the tracks and I see them out there inspecting/working on the rails all the time. Seems like I see this every few weeks, just yesterday even. http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4081/4772554060_4c427614c9_z.jpg

 

[TheIronSheik]

Make that 107 mph. Driver isn't talking until he gets a lawyer.

Looking less and less likely that Mr. Glass was behind this.

I can't help thinking about the plot to Unbreakable every time I see this news story. Hell, it even happened in Philadelphia. I blame Mr. Glass.

 

[squidrope]

according to his co-workers, the engineer may have fallen asleep due to working overtime. The regulations are that engineers aren't allowed to work beyond 8 hours but due to someone calling out sick, he had to work overtime

How do you fall asleep while driving a train 100+mph?

 

[Braktastic]

Make that 107 mph. Driver isn't talking until he gets a lawyer.

Looking less and less likely that Mr. Glass was behind this.

I can't help thinking about the plot to Unbreakable every time I see this news story. Hell, it even happened in Philadelphia. I blame Mr. Glass.

Ha! I searched Unbreakable before I posted that. I should've searched Mr. Glass. I knew I couldn't be the only one to see the eerie parallel. Great minds...

 

[Nick Vermeil]

according to his co-workers, the engineer may have fallen asleep due to working overtime. The regulations are that engineers aren't allowed to work beyond 8 hours but due to someone calling out sick, he had to work overtime

How do you fall asleep while driving a train 100+mph?

This curve is not far after a stop in Philly and following a few other curves that require speed adjustments. He would have to be pretty damned exhausted.

 

[Donkey Derp]

Where's my violin dammit:http://www.inquisitr.com/2087086/amtrak-crash-survivor-tweets-about-lost-violin-outrage-ensues/

Holy ####

My daughter is a piano performance major at music school; she has a lot of musician friends, including violinists. That violinist was a professional violinist; I can guarantee you that was at least a $50k instrument and probably $100k+. And it's a very personal thing, tied directly to her livelihood. While it's "just an instrument" and not a person, I can understand her reaction to its loss. But then, I'm aspergian and don't really connect with "feelings" very well, anyhow.

she could have gone about it a different way. i.e. NOT Twitter and NOT smarmy.

I'm not worked up about it, but that is a pretty ####ty tweet that indicates a whole host of issues that this person likely has.

She sent the tweet out 15 minutes after the train crashed. I doubt she had any idea of the severity of the casualties at that point - no one ever expects to be in a train wreck where multiple die and/or get seriously injured. It's even possible she was in some form of shock at that point.

It's a non story and probably has little reflection on who she really is as a person.

 

[Billy Bats]

Where's my violin dammit:http://www.inquisitr.com/2087086/amtrak-crash-survivor-tweets-about-lost-violin-outrage-ensues/

Holy ####

My daughter is a piano performance major at music school; she has a lot of musician friends, including violinists. That violinist was a professional violinist; I can guarantee you that was at least a $50k instrument and probably $100k+. And it's a very personal thing, tied directly to her livelihood. While it's "just an instrument" and not a person, I can understand her reaction to its loss. But then, I'm aspergian and don't really connect with "feelings" very well, anyhow.

she could have gone about it a different way. i.e. NOT Twitter and NOT smarmy.

I'm not worked up about it, but that is a pretty ####ty tweet that indicates a whole host of issues that this person likely has.

She sent the tweet out 15 minutes after the train crashed. I doubt she had any idea of the severity of the casualties at that point - no one ever expects to be in a train wreck where multiple die and/or get seriously injured. It's even possible she was in some form of shock at that point.It's a non story and probably has little reflection on who she really is as a person.

Tweeting that out 15 minutes after the wreck is an absolute reflection of who she is as a person. There were over 300 emergency personnel onsite along with over 100 apparatuses and I can imagine pure chaos. Shock I can somewhat accept, but claiming ignorance on the severity of the situation which she's in the middle of is laughable.

 

[Billy Bats]

An 8th fatality reported.

 

[Braktastic]

:(

 

[chet]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

 

[Donkey Derp]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

Damn, that's sad.

 

[El Floppo]

Where's my violin dammit:http://www.inquisitr.com/2087086/amtrak-crash-survivor-tweets-about-lost-violin-outrage-ensues/

Holy ####

My daughter is a piano performance major at music school; she has a lot of musician friends, including violinists. That violinist was a professional violinist; I can guarantee you that was at least a $50k instrument and probably $100k+. And it's a very personal thing, tied directly to her livelihood. While it's "just an instrument" and not a person, I can understand her reaction to its loss. But then, I'm aspergian and don't really connect with "feelings" very well, anyhow.

she could have gone about it a different way. i.e. NOT Twitter and NOT smarmy.

I'm not worked up about it, but that is a pretty ####ty tweet that indicates a whole host of issues that this person likely has.

Yeah- I agree with this.

First thought was Johnnycakes comment about the cost and direct tie to livelihood.

But the phrasing of the tweet was just awful- and sadly, the kind of stereotypical "it's all about me and my world" attitude that millenials are fairly or unfairly being labelled with. Makes me think of the gaggle of girls smiling with the selfie-stick in front of the NYC buildings in my neighborhood that exploded and were still smoldering (with dead bodies lying underneath).

 

[El Floppo]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

holy hell- Chet.. horrible. Keeping digits crossed that they appear from from a hotel or hospital.

 

[Billy Bats]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

Sorry to hear, Chet. Sadly the 8th victim was just discovered this morning in the wreckage by cadaver dogs. Holding out hope it's not your buddy's friend.

 

[RC94]

The train rapidly accelerated just before the crash: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/derailed-amtrak-engineer-brandon-bostian-to-be-interviewed-by-investigators/

 

[culdeus]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

Sorry to hear, Chet. Sadly the 8th victim was just discovered this morning in the wreckage by cadaver dogs. Holding out hope it's not your buddy's friend.

Bob Gildersleeve was found this morning.

 

[Chadstroma]

I can't believe there is a lawsuit already. They haven't even freaking cleared the line yet but the lawyers are tripping over themselves to get their money.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

I love the concussion excuse. Right up there with getting pregnant from a toilet.

 

[St. Louis Bob]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

####. Sorry GB. :(

 

[jonessed]

I love the concussion excuse. Right up there with getting pregnant from a toilet.

Losing memory around the time of a concussion isn't all that bizarre. It should come back though.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

of course. was anything substantive appropriated in the wake of the I35 collapse? i dont think there was, nor since.

What happened to all those billions spent on shovel-ready projects for the stimulus?

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Given the deteriorating state of our infrastructure, should we expect more such tragic accidents in the future?

of course. was anything substantive appropriated in the wake of the I35 collapse? i dont think there was, nor since.

What happened to all those billions spent on shovel-ready projects for the stimulus?

 

[3C's]

Apparently it happened because he's gay.

 

[chet]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

The 8th and final victim. RIP

 

[El Floppo]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

The 8th and final victim. RIP

:(

that's terrible... sorry chet- TPs to you and his family and friends.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

The 8th and final victim. RIP

:(

that's terrible... sorry chet- TPs to you and his family and friends.

 

[chet]

A friend of a friend was on the train and as of last night, they hadn't heard from him

The 8th and final victim. RIP

:(

that's terrible... sorry chet- TPs to you and his family and friends.

I didn't know him but it's a reminder of how close to the end all of us can be.

Thanks.

 

[Jules Winnfield]

Apparently it happened because he's gay.

Huh?

 

[3C's]

Apparently it happened because he's gay.

Huh?

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/anti-gay-pundit-homosexuality-factor-amtrak-crash

 

[Donkey Derp]

FBI investigates report that projectile hit windshield of Amtrak train moments before crash ...as it's revealed TWO other trains were also struck that night

• Conductor on derailed train said she overheard Amtrak Train 188 engineer Brandon Bostian report on the radio that his train was hit in the windshield
• Moments later, at 9.21pm on Tuesday, the train derailed killing eight
• At 9.05pm Tuesday, a different Amtrack train reported being struck in a window by an unknown object
• At 9.10pm Tuesday, a northbound SEPTA regional rail train reported it had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the windshield
• All three incidents happened within a few miles of 30th Street Station along the same stretch of track outside Philadelphia
• FBI investigating damage to the 'left hand lower portion' of the windshield on the derailed Amtrak Train 188
• Officials say there is no evidence the three incidents are connected - or that they had anything to do with the derailment

This is a common occurrence for trains to get hit by objects and suffer windshield damage?

 

[MaxThreshold]

FBI investigates report that projectile hit windshield of Amtrak train moments before crash ...as it's revealed TWO other trains were also struck that night

• Conductor on derailed train said she overheard Amtrak Train 188 engineer Brandon Bostian report on the radio that his train was hit in the windshield
• Moments later, at 9.21pm on Tuesday, the train derailed killing eight
• At 9.05pm Tuesday, a different Amtrack train reported being struck in a window by an unknown object
• At 9.10pm Tuesday, a northbound SEPTA regional rail train reported it had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the windshield
• All three incidents happened within a few miles of 30th Street Station along the same stretch of track outside Philadelphia
• FBI investigating damage to the 'left hand lower portion' of the windshield on the derailed Amtrak Train 188
• Officials say there is no evidence the three incidents are connected - or that they had anything to do with the derailment

This is a common occurrence for trains to get hit by objects and suffer windshield damage?

AND it causes the train to derail?

 

[Donkey Derp]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

 

[MaxThreshold]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

 

[Donkey Derp]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Look at the windshields though on the two separate train windshield pics. Something with serious velocity hit it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3083959/FBI-investigating-Amtrak-train-hit-object-SEPTA-train-hit-before.html

The FBI is investigating a report that the Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night was struck in the windshield by a projectile moments before it derailed, killing eight and injuring 200.

The new claim on Friday comes as investigators revealed that two other trains had suffered cracked windows after being hit by unknown objects just minutes before the deadly crash and only a few miles apart.

An assistant conductor on Amtrak Train 188 has told National Transportation Safety Board investigators she heard Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostain say that his train had been hit by something. Seconds later, the train careened off the tracks.

Bostian's comment was in response to a report from a SEPTA regional rail engineer, who radioed in to say his train had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the area about 9.10pm Tuesday. The projectile pierced the windshield of the northbound SEPTA train.

Five minutes earlier, a projectile cracked a window of a different Amtrak train - a southbound Acela Express - about 9.05pm.

Train 188, which was headed north from Philadelphia to New York, derailed at 9.21pm.

The conductor knew other trains had been hit. It doesn't matter how big the train is, if someone wants to shoot at a train, they know exactly the path it is going to take. And they have evidence two other trains were actually hit. If he really believes he was getting shot at, I doubt his thought process was clear in that split second to decide what to do.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Look at the windshields though on the two separate train windshield pics. Something with serious velocity hit it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3083959/FBI-investigating-Amtrak-train-hit-object-SEPTA-train-hit-before.html

The FBI is investigating a report that the Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night was struck in the windshield by a projectile moments before it derailed, killing eight and injuring 200.

The new claim on Friday comes as investigators revealed that two other trains had suffered cracked windows after being hit by unknown objects just minutes before the deadly crash and only a few miles apart.

An assistant conductor on Amtrak Train 188 has told National Transportation Safety Board investigators she heard Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostain say that his train had been hit by something. Seconds later, the train careened off the tracks.

Bostian's comment was in response to a report from a SEPTA regional rail engineer, who radioed in to say his train had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the area about 9.10pm Tuesday. The projectile pierced the windshield of the northbound SEPTA train.

Five minutes earlier, a projectile cracked a window of a different Amtrak train - a southbound Acela Express - about 9.05pm.

Train 188, which was headed north from Philadelphia to New York, derailed at 9.21pm.

The conductor knew other trains had been hit. It doesn't matter how big the train is, if someone wants to shoot at a train, they know exactly the path it is going to take. And they have evidence two other trains were actually hit. If he really believes he was getting shot at, I doubt his thought process was clear in that split second to decide what to do.

I'm not denying that it did, but even the pictures show that the projectile did NOT pierce the windshield. That windshield looks like it held up pretty well, in fact.

And that still would be no reason to speed up. That would actually be a reason to slow down and find out what the hell happened. No way he speeds up into a known dangerous curve. He's so much safer inside the train.

Edit: My bad, looks like one of the windshields was pierced. However, i still think that is no reason to speed up.

 

[Otis]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Turns out when you're getting shot at you don't always think everything through before you react.

 

[Otis]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Look at the windshields though on the two separate train windshield pics. Something with serious velocity hit it. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3083959/FBI-investigating-Amtrak-train-hit-object-SEPTA-train-hit-before.html

The FBI is investigating a report that the Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night was struck in the windshield by a projectile moments before it derailed, killing eight and injuring 200.

The new claim on Friday comes as investigators revealed that two other trains had suffered cracked windows after being hit by unknown objects just minutes before the deadly crash and only a few miles apart.

An assistant conductor on Amtrak Train 188 has told National Transportation Safety Board investigators she heard Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostain say that his train had been hit by something. Seconds later, the train careened off the tracks.

Bostian's comment was in response to a report from a SEPTA regional rail engineer, who radioed in to say his train had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the area about 9.10pm Tuesday. The projectile pierced the windshield of the northbound SEPTA train.

Five minutes earlier, a projectile cracked a window of a different Amtrak train - a southbound Acela Express - about 9.05pm.

Train 188, which was headed north from Philadelphia to New York, derailed at 9.21pm.

The conductor knew other trains had been hit. It doesn't matter how big the train is, if someone wants to shoot at a train, they know exactly the path it is going to take. And they have evidence two other trains were actually hit. If he really believes he was getting shot at, I doubt his thought process was clear in that split second to decide what to do.

I'm not denying that it did, but even the pictures show that the projectile did NOT pierce the windshield. That windshield looks like it held up pretty well, in fact.

And that still would be no reason to speed up. That would actually be a reason to slow down and find out what the hell happened. No way he speeds up into a known dangerous curve. He's so much safer inside the train.

Yeah that's crazy.

 

[MaxThreshold]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Turns out when you're getting shot at you don't always think everything through before you react.

Of course. I just don't think its very believable in this situation.

 

[Donkey Derp]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Not to be rude, but that makes no sense at all. He's in a 120 ton steel box on wheels. I don't buy it. No way he puts himself in greater danger by speeding up on KNOWN dangerous curve.

Look at the windshields though on the two separate train windshield pics. Something with serious velocity hit it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3083959/FBI-investigating-Amtrak-train-hit-object-SEPTA-train-hit-before.html

The FBI is investigating a report that the Amtrak train that crashed in Philadelphia on Tuesday night was struck in the windshield by a projectile moments before it derailed, killing eight and injuring 200.

The new claim on Friday comes as investigators revealed that two other trains had suffered cracked windows after being hit by unknown objects just minutes before the deadly crash and only a few miles apart.

An assistant conductor on Amtrak Train 188 has told National Transportation Safety Board investigators she heard Amtrak engineer Brandon Bostain say that his train had been hit by something. Seconds later, the train careened off the tracks.

Bostian's comment was in response to a report from a SEPTA regional rail engineer, who radioed in to say his train had been 'hit by a rock or shot at' in the area about 9.10pm Tuesday. The projectile pierced the windshield of the northbound SEPTA train.

Five minutes earlier, a projectile cracked a window of a different Amtrak train - a southbound Acela Express - about 9.05pm.

Train 188, which was headed north from Philadelphia to New York, derailed at 9.21pm.

The conductor knew other trains had been hit. It doesn't matter how big the train is, if someone wants to shoot at a train, they know exactly the path it is going to take. And they have evidence two other trains were actually hit. If he really believes he was getting shot at, I doubt his thought process was clear in that split second to decide what to do.

I'm not denying that it did, but even the pictures show that the projectile did NOT pierce the windshield. That windshield looks like it held up pretty well, in fact.

And that still would be no reason to speed up. That would actually be a reason to slow down and find out what the hell happened. No way he speeds up into a known dangerous curve. He's so much safer inside the train.

Edit: My bad, looks like one of the windshields was pierced. However, i still think that is no reason to speed up.

You could be right.

This guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_rZQL2Sm0k

says his hand was probably on the throttle I assume to slow the train down. Maybe he flinched/ducked when the object hit the windshield and accidently pushed the throttle faster instead of slower. If reports are correct, before the curve he was only going 70 in a 80 mph zone - if he really wanted to wreck it intentionally seems like he would be going a lot faster earlier than he did. The brakes were also applied but obviously way too late.

But who knows - the guy who intentionally flew the airplane into the mountains wanted to be a pilot all his life and apparently wanted to die that way. Never know what a person is thinking. The multiple fractured windshields seem too bizarre in a such a small area to not be related imo.

 

[Mr. Retukes]

I don't know exactly what communications the conductors have. But if somehow he is aware that two other trains got hit with "projectiles" and all of a sudden his train gets hit with a "projectile" (bullets for all he knows), it might explain why the train sped up quickly if he was trying to get out the danger area as quickly as possible

Or he could have just ducked.

 

[Jack White]

Amtrak—A National Hazard At Any Speed

by David Stockman •

May 15, 2015

The tragic accident in Philadelphia should be a reminder. The real train wreck is Amtrak itself—–a colossal waste of taxpayer money and the very embodiment of what is wrong with state intervention in the free market economy. Worse still, the pork barrel politics which drive its handouts from Uncle Sam virtually guarantee that as time goes on it will become an increasing hazard to public safety, as well.

It seems like only yesterday, but one of my first assignments as a junior staffer on Capitol Hill was to analyze the enabling legislation that created Amtrak in the early 1970s. I was working for an old fashioned conservative Congressman and his first question was “how will it ever make a profit when we are running the trains from the Rayburn Building?”.

He couldn’t have been more clairvoyant. While it sponsors claimed Amtrak would be spewing black ink by 1974, the answer to my boss’ question was simple: never!

But you didn’t need to wait 43 years to prove it. There is not even a remote case that subsidizing intercity rail travel is a proper or necessary function of the state. Amtrak accounts for well less than 1% of intercity passenger miles. On every one of its 44 routes there are bus and air travel alternatives, and that is to say nothing of automobile travel—–whether in cars with drivers today or in the driverless kind tomorrow.

Moreover, the evidence overwhelmingly shows that passenger trains will never be economically competitive outside of a handful of densely populated corridors. By contrast, what was absolutely guaranteed from day one back in 1970 is that a government controlled passenger rail system crisscrossing the United States would become a monumental Congressional pork barrel—–an endless rebuke to rational economics.

And that it has. The cumulative taxpayer subsidy since 1972 totals more than $75 billion in dollars of today’s purchasing power. During the span of nearly a half century, Amtrak has operated upwards of 40 routes that have never, ever made even an “operating profit”.

Yet the operating profit test is itself a red herring. Like its aviation competitor, Amtrak is massively capital intensive. It maintains 21,000 miles of track, 100 rail stations, operates around 2,500 locomotives and passenger cars, and requires an extensive, costly infrastructure of communications and signaling systems, electric traction networks and a huge array of bridges, tunnels, switching yards, repair facilities, fencing and other right-of-way improvements and ancillary buildings. On a replacement basis, its entire capital asset base would easily amount to $50 billion (about $40 billion of track and infrastructure and $10 billion of rolling stock).

And that giant figure underscores the economic part of the Amtrak hazard. Even with a generous assumption that the useful lives of its equipment, rolling stock and infrastructure would average 25 years, Amtrak’s economic depreciation would amount to $2.0 billion per year. Since it generates roughly 8 billion passenger miles annually, this means that its capital consumption expense amounts to about 25 cents per passenger mile.

So here’s the thing. The average airline fare in the US is about 15 cents per passenger mile and the average bus fare is about 11 cents per mile. Now how in the world does it make sense to operate a lumbering passenger rail system in which the true economic cost of its capital assets alone is 65% to 130% higher than the profitable fares charged by the perfectly adequate and available alternative modes of transportation?

Stated differently, you are deep in the hole before you start even one Acela train on its route between Washington and Boston or one long distance train, for example, on its 1,750 mile route between Chicago and Los Angeles. But in the operations department it goes without saying that Amtrak—–burdened as it is with its endless array of Congressional mandates and directives—– is not exactly a model of efficiency or financial discipline.

Thus, Amtrak’s annual fully loaded wage and benefits tab is about $2 billion spread over 20,000 employees. Needless to say, at $100,000 per employee Amtrak’s costs are not even in the same zip code as its far more efficient for-profit competitors in the airline and bus transit industries.

On top of its massively bloated and featherbedded payroll, Amtrak also generates another $1.3 billion of expense for fuel, power, utilities, supplies, repair parts and operational and management overheads. Accordingly, its total operating budget at $3.3 billion amounts to about 40 cents of expense per passenger mile. That is, its operating costs are 3-4X the ticket price of its air and bus competitors!

The economic arithmetic is thus insuperable. On a system-wide basis, Amtrak’s combined capital and operating expense would amount to about 65 cents per passenger mile. That is, in the absence of Federal and state subsidies and the implicit subsidies that private railroad companies transfer to Amtrak via deeply below-market fees for utilization of their tracks and facilities. Indeed, 95% of Amtrak’s routes and 70% of its passenger miles are generated on lines leased from freight railroads, which—-owing to regulatory mandates—-Amtrak pays a trivial 2 cents per passenger mile—-a figure not remotely reflective of the real economic costs.

By contrast, Amtrak’s ticket revenues amount to hardly 30 cents per passenger mile. So contrary to Amtrak’s claim that it has nearly reached break-even, its true economics reflect the very opposite. Namely, a giant political pork barrel in which system revenues cover less than 45% of its all-in economic costs to society.

Nor can this disability be remedied by reforming the system and paring back its routes to just the profitable corridors. Even the northeast corridor generates only 10 cents of operating profits per passenger mile. Throw-in the capital costs and even Amtrak’s so-called profitable lines are still deeply underwater.

To wit, a recent inspector general report estimated that the replacement cost of the northeast corridor infrastructure alone was about $15 billion, which would amount to $400 million per year on an amortized basis or 20 cents per passenger mile. Add in another 5 cents per mile for locomotives and passenger cars and you have 25 cents of capital costs.

So there is a reason why even the northeast corridor has never been privatized. It would lose at least 15 cents on each of the 2 billion passenger miles that Amtrak/northeast corridor generates annually in the absence of much higher fares.

And those are the baleful facts regarding the Acela and regional routes in the Washington-Boston corridor. The rest of the system embodies just plain economic waste. The aforementioned Chicago-Los Angeles route, for example, has operating costs of 35 cents per passenger mile; and total costs with capital consumption would be at least 50 cents per mile–even giving allowance for the lower capital intensity of long distance routes.

The problem is that you can get a airline coach fare today between the Chicago-Los Angeles pair for $200 or 11 cents per mile. And you don’t need to spend 22 hours on the train, either.

As it is, Amtrak’s current fare on this route is about 15 cents per passenger mile and apparently it cannot go much higher if it wishes to remain competitive with air. Yet why in the world should bus drivers in Minneapolis pay Federal taxes in order to provide what amounts to a $600 subsidy per ticket on the 180,000 tickets that are sold annually on the Chicago-Los Angeles route? And the latter is only typical of most of the other routes outside the northeast corrdidor.

Obviously, there is no means test to get a $600 subsidy from Amtrak, or any other plausible criterion of public need. Like so much else which emanates from Washington, these Amtrak subsidies are distributed willy-nilly——in this case to retirees with enough time and money to see the country at leisure or to people with fear of flying who don’t wish to drive.

So Amtrak is a white elephant as a matter of economics, but when it comes to public safety it is actually a wounded one. That’s because when push comes to shove and Congress is faced with limited budget headroom, it always elects to short change the capital budget rather than reduce the scope of Amtrak’s far-flung operations and eliminate any of the 44 routes which crisscross the nation’s congressional district.

I actually learned that lesson during the so-called Reagan Revolution. My original plan was to eliminate Amtrak entirely, and it would have saved upwards of $60 billion in the decades to come. At the get-go, the Gipper was all for it. Not a proper function of government, he averred.

Then his Secretary of Transportation and previously chief GOP fundraiser and governor of Pennsylvania explained that the Gipper was right—but not quite. The northeast corridor (NEC) routes provided a valuable economic function——so by paring the system back to these high density routes the Amtrak budget could be cut in half. Moreover, after some up-front capital spending, the NEC could be transformed into a profitable business and eventually sold to the private sector in an IPO. That’s just the thing, said the President.

Then it got to Capitol Hill and the Republican politicians said we are all for cutting the Amtrak budget by 50%, but to get the votes we need to do it our way. Upon which the Gipper replied, yes, we are here first and foremost to shrink the runaway Federal budget, so do what you must to get those savings.

They did. They drastically pared back the capital budget and kept virtually all of the routes and operating subsidy costs in place. When Uncle Sam came up short, capital investment could be deferred, but the pork barrel had to be feed.

In the bye and bye, of course, Amtrak’s budget was restored all the way back to Jimmy Carter’s “wasteful” levels and actually hit record amounts during the Republican government of 2001-2008. But even then there was never enough appropriations to keep this giant white elephant properly fed——so capital investment was perennially short-changed and the system’s fixed assets steadily deteriorated.

Whether this week’s disaster was human error or not, the larger certainty is that the system has been chronically starved of capital. But the solution is not for a bankrupt government in Washington to pour more money down the Amtrak rat hole in the name of “infrastructure investment”, as the big spenders are now braying in the wake of this week’s disaster in Philadelphia.

Instead, Amtrak should be put out of its misery once and for all. Otherwise its longstanding hazard to the taxpayers is likely to be compounded by even more public safety disasters like this week’s tragic event.