Another school shooting (1 Viewer)

[Ilov80s]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

That is a legal nightmare and likely pretty ineffective.

 

[Stinger Ray]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

Wow....are you that naive to think that these killers would be deterred by a mom on a cell phone?

You are insulting a very smart man who brings up a great idea to help deter crime. Pretty un-excellent in my book. I like the idea. It's like a Neighborhood Watch...bet you think those are bad ideas too.

Deterring crime is much different than preventing someone that has PLANNED an attack like this. Do you really think a neighborhood watch program would have prevented this?

 

[General Malaise]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

Wow....are you that naive to think that these killers would be deterred by a mom on a cell phone?

You are insulting a very smart man who brings up a great idea to help deter crime. Pretty un-excellent in my book. I like the idea. It's like a Neighborhood Watch...bet you think those are bad ideas too.

Deterring crime is much different than preventing someone that has PLANNED an attack like this. Do you really think a neighborhood watch program would have prevented this?

What if it alerted authorities sooner? What if it gave some advance warning? Calling Cosjobs naive for suggesting it is just mean.

 

[cosjobs]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

Wow....are you that naive to think that these killers would be deterred by a mom on a cell phone?

You are insulting a very smart man who brings up a great idea to help deter crime. Pretty un-excellent in my book. I like the idea. It's like a Neighborhood Watch...bet you think those are bad ideas too.

Deterring crime is much different than preventing someone that has PLANNED an attack like this. Do you really think a neighborhood watch program would have prevented this?

Well let's thorw up our arms a cry about inadequate funding for round the clock police or wait 10 years for gun control legislation.I proposed something that may help a little bit and would cost nothing.Community/parent involvement keeping an eyes on who's going to where their kids are,What if a donut eating mom had gotten Barney there in time to save one kid's life. Would it have been worth it?I am not touting it as an ultimate solution, I'm saying its something that could be done NOW and likely have a positive effect.But by all means, let's just dismiss it out of hand.

 

[mad sweeney]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio.

Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.

If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

That may very well be a deterrent for some crimes, but when someone puts this much effort into what will end up being one of the most heinous mass killings of all time, Mom eating doughnuts calling Barney Fife to come stop a heavily armed and armored psycho isn't going to do much. These types of crimes are nearly unstoppable because they are so far from being believable. I'm not saying it has no merit in possibly preventing other things, but this, Columbine, VT, Aurora etc... nothing less than a SWAT team a block away on standby is going to do any good.

a ban on guns and a ban on bullets might also do some good.

Yes and no. I don't know if gun control is allowed in here and I haven't opined my view on it.

 

[pittstownkiller]

A possible solution would be to consolidate the various levels of schools and incorporate the police department right into the school campus.

 

[mr roboto]

cos brings an interesting idea, but I have to agree that this type of shooting is nearly unavoidable without the total abolition of guns in the country (except for law enforcement). Not just illegal, but removal of the black market as well.

Does anyone really believe a terrorist couldn't blow up a plane anymore? If you have a person hell bent on killing a bunch of people, they will probably find a way.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Let me preface this by saying that I can not even imagine what any parent who lost a child must be going through, its unfathomable to me. But i was little surprised that the father of little Emily Parker gave a press conference about his daughter. It was very emotional and heart wrenching, but I just couldnt understand how that came to be? Was the media contacting the families of the children to get a statement from one of them? Why would a grieving father have to tell the world how much his daughter meant to him, to me it seemed like the media was exploiting his tragedy

He has two younger children so he is probably trying to look as strong as possible for them.

My pastor went to college with one of the parents and has stayed somewhat in touch. Not sure which parent it is, but if it's this guy, he seems like a great person from my pastor's description. I know that particular guy is hurting but wants to also give others hope that life can go on and is still worth living.And I definitely want to know if there was a connection between the mother and school. If not, how were there so many early reports that she worked there and why did he target the school? If she did, why are there reports she didn't have any connection? Not that there it makes anything better or easier either way, but this is kind of a weird deal and a whole lot of media outlets have screwed the pooch royally on this (like they have over and over on this).

 

[Todd Andrews]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

I posted this in the other thread but let's say a cop costs about $1200 a day including all overhead like car, equipment, etc. There were 600 kids in that school, so maybe the same number of parents. That's $2 per parent per day, or $10 a week. Seems pretty darn cheap to me, the price of two Starbucks coffees.

No, no, no, thtat would require taxes, cant do that.

 

[Mario Kart]

And I definitely want to know if there was a connection between the mother and school. If not, how were there so many early reports that she worked there and why did he target the school? If she did, why are there reports she didn't have any connection? Not that there it makes anything better or easier either way, but this is kind of a weird deal and a whole lot of media outlets have screwed the pooch royally on this (like they have over and over on this).

Unless there is another official report of some kind, it has been confirmed over and over that she had zero to do with the school.Why were there reports? In our society, people get a high for being first. If someone reports something, and they were first, than all other reports have to credit the original which is name recognition and so on. It's a sick, sick world when being first, no matter the circumstance, takes precedent over correctness.

 

[cstu]

A different perspective on the subject:

My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest.



If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.

I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.

I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

I completely agree with her. The issue is not guns, since as I've said many times it's extremely easy to create bombs from legal materials if someone's goal is to commit mass murder. What parents need to do is create a sense of family and community for their kids so that they feel they will be letting down a bunch of people if they do something like this. It won't stop them all but it may be enough to prevent some.

 

[Billy Bats]

It was interesting that I caught CNN run a montage of all the inaccuracies that were reported on air all day Friday. Not just theirs either, but all news outlets. It was at least good to see them acknowledge just how terrible they were on Friday.

 

[parasaurolophus]

All kinds of friends posting on Facebook today about how the principals should be armed, armed guards everywhere, etc. I guess the country really has fallen this far. It was only 20 years ago I was in high school and the only schools with armed guards were the absolute worst of the worst. My wife is a teacher, I know her principal, and I don't want the guy carrying a gun. Seems like a nice enough guy, but he's not anyone I'd want taking a shot at someone. He'd be much more likely to Barney Fife it and shoot his foot or if any trouble ever came up shoot a kid rather than the assailant.

I wouldn't want a school official to be armed. Recipe for disaster.I'm talking about actual sworn police officers. If it costs extra taxpayer money, so be it.

We can't even properly fund our schools in CA. Districts have been laying off teachers and cutting class days left and right.There is zero chance they can afford this unless there is a massive federal grant that pays for all of it. Even then I would rather the money go to actual education.

Which is why I say classify these incidents as terrorism so it gets e right amt of funding.

How does classifying it one way magically create more money?If more money was going to be spent in this area it would mean less money gets spent elsewhere. If money is going to be spent to protect kids it would make more sense to not put a police officer at the schools in my town and place them on the streets in other areas. It would be better spent on mental health resources. It would be better spent trying to prevent accidental drowning deaths. There are tons of areas that would lead to far more children being saved than placing cops at every school in America.

 

[BassNBrew]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio.

Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.

If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

That may very well be a deterrent for some crimes, but when someone puts this much effort into what will end up being one of the most heinous mass killings of all time, Mom eating doughnuts calling Barney Fife to come stop a heavily armed and armored psycho isn't going to do much. These types of crimes are nearly unstoppable because they are so far from being believable. I'm not saying it has no merit in possibly preventing other things, but this, Columbine, VT, Aurora etc... nothing less than a SWAT team a block away on standby is going to do any good.

a ban on guns and a ban on bullets might also do some good.

Figures the libs would pollute this thread to the point of no return first.

 

[iamsmilin]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

I understand your point an agree to a certain extent. The problem is that some posters cannot help themselves when gun control is brought into a thread. They can and have hijacked it for pages so that people wanting information get lost on what's really happening. I haven't watched the news since Friday, I didn't want my kids exposed to the stories. Even on Friday, most of the information I received was through this thread. If people could post here without hijacking and being douches, I'm sure you'd find less people asking the gun control conversation be kept out of this thread.

 

[BassNBrew]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

I understand your point an agree to a certain extent. The problem is that some posters cannot help themselves when gun control is brought into a thread. They can and have hijacked it for pages so that people wanting information get lost on what's really happening. I haven't watched the news since Friday, I didn't want my kids exposed to the stories. Even on Friday, most of the information I received was through this thread. If people could post here without hijacking and being douches, I'm sure you'd find less people asking the gun control conversation be kept out of this thread.

You can thank cos and gm for that when there are obvious other threads for them to express themselves. Once the other side arrives you'll have 5 pages of gun control and tax increase posts to wade through.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know what both the Mom and the killer have been doing for the last three years. There has been no word with respect to the mom working, and the son seemed to have not even graduated from the high school. So it was just the two of them holed up in the house with her guns?

Is this just a case where the kid was losing his mind, and the mom was either hiding it, or denying that he needed more help than she could give?

 

[Parmcat]

You know you are the lowest of the low when the KKK is protesting you

 

[ATC1]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

I understand your point an agree to a certain extent. The problem is that some posters cannot help themselves when gun control is brought into a thread. They can and have hijacked it for pages so that people wanting information get lost on what's really happening. I haven't watched the news since Friday, I didn't want my kids exposed to the stories. Even on Friday, most of the information I received was through this thread. If people could post here without hijacking and being douches, I'm sure you'd find less people asking the gun control conversation be kept out of this thread.

That's why the gun control thread was created. It's a big cluster, but at least it is keeping this thread readable. For the most part.

 

[General Malaise]

A different perspective on the subject:My wife feels that the gun control issue is hiding a larger, more acute problem in our country - the loss of "community" in America. She believes that more children grow up isolated relative to past generations due to greater urban sprawl and the decrease in families attending "communal" functions (YMCA, religious community, Boys Club, etc - And no were not religious!). She feels that unlike the "old days", more young families move away from their birth cities and lack a family support system of grandparents/aunts/uncles/cousins/etc. That more kids grow up in neighborhoods where they dont know their neighbors. Where many kids lack an affiliation to some sort of community that makes the world a little bit smaller and a little bit easier to digest. If youd ask her, the end result of this phenomenon is that more kids today lack meaningful friends/family/mentors which leads to 1) an increase in the number of moderately "strange" people that lack social skills and 2) a general lack of accountability for these crazy people given that theres nothing keeping them from falling off the deep end.I dont necessarily disagree with her. No matter what side of the political spectrum you sit, I think EVERYONE agrees that tighter gun laws alone will not completely curtail the problem - since laws cannot prevent 'crazy'. Said differently, we have a "People problem" in this country that is not being addressed. Its not prevalent among all 300+ million Americans. It doesnt even affect the majority of folks. But I think there are a worrying number of people falling through the cracks and the dialog we should be having is what can we do to stop it.I thought it was interesting so here I am sharing. Discuss if you like.

How can gun control hide the issue when its the only topic in this thread that cannot be uttered?Seriously. If 25 kids had walked into a well and drowned, would it be out of place to discuss putting a fence around the well?I am a gun owner and support gun ownership. But the fact that something so pertinent in this tragedy cannot be discussed in the thread about the tragedy is mindnumbing.

Im all for gun reform. Just trying to bring another perspective into the discussion as its a multi-faceted problem.

Yes, I agree with you. We should discuss all perspectives of possible solutions in this thread. My beef was that discussing "gun control" was off limits while every other imaginable cause was brought up without any restriction. It was the elephant in the room we we not permitted to acknowledge. Its time for us as a country to look where we are.

I understand your point an agree to a certain extent. The problem is that some posters cannot help themselves when gun control is brought into a thread. They can and have hijacked it for pages so that people wanting information get lost on what's really happening. I haven't watched the news since Friday, I didn't want my kids exposed to the stories. Even on Friday, most of the information I received was through this thread. If people could post here without hijacking and being douches, I'm sure you'd find less people asking the gun control conversation be kept out of this thread.

You can thank cos and gm for that when there are obvious other threads for them to express themselves. Once the other side arrives you'll have 5 pages of gun control and tax increase posts to wade through.

What are you crying about now? How many total posts do I have in this thread? Ignore me if you don't like my views. I won't care.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know what both the Mom and the killer have been doing for the last three years. There has been no word with respect to the mom working, and the son seemed to have not even graduated from the high school. So it was just the two of them holed up in the house with her guns? Is this just a case where the kid was losing his mind, and the mom was either hiding it, or denying that he needed more help than she could give?

There is an article on the Daily Mail website that says that the mom was a survivalist that thought the breakdown of society was rapidly approaching. To the point she was hoarding food and supplies. Some people that knew her seemed to think she was barely keeping it together herself.I think it's very possible that she was mentally ill and fueled this whole thing. She may have had him convinced civilization was about the collapse to the point where he thought he was sparing his mom and the kids from dealing with that.

 

[belljr]

I'm not blaming anyone from the school, I'm just curious how you see this guy and buzz him in.

I know our school there is a camera at the front door. Although at daycare pickup the door is unlocked, I'm sure that policy will be changing and we will have a bunch of people complain it's violating their rights and such...

 

[xulf]

I'm not blaming anyone from the school, I'm just curious how you see this guy and buzz him in.I know our school there is a camera at the front door. Although at daycare pickup the door is unlocked, I'm sure that policy will be changing and we will have a bunch of people complain it's violating their rights and such...

Recent reports say he "made his own entrance" not buzzed in.

 

[Novice2]

I couldn't watch much coverage yesterday, but I feel like CNN is doing a nice, respectful job with it today. I like this Don Lemon guy on lead.

I don't recall seeing the killer's picture once... in at least two hours of viewing.

They just showed it.

Weird... he looks perfectly sane. Same googly eyes as the jackass who shot up the movie theater.

He looks like a living skull.

My link

Prob the type of #### he heard his whole life that did nothing for the hate anger and murder building in his heart. Maybe that's a change Americans should take before they rush to ban some scary looking guns, violent video games, and lock up those they deem danger to society.

 

[belljr]

I'm not blaming anyone from the school, I'm just curious how you see this guy and buzz him in.I know our school there is a camera at the front door. Although at daycare pickup the door is unlocked, I'm sure that policy will be changing and we will have a bunch of people complain it's violating their rights and such...

Recent reports say he "made his own entrance" not buzzed in.

That makes more sense, i tapped out friday so im fuzzy on all the details

 

[pittstownkiller]

I can imagine how stressed these children will be in their new school when they have a fire drill. They will need special supervision for years to come.

 

[Otis]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

Seriously. How could they possibly have done anything on Friday?

 

[Otis]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

How does a barking dog prevent a burglary?Making noise when a bad guy approaches, often keeps the bad guy away.If two moms on cell phones had been calling the achool and/or police when this guy came up to the Newtown school, maybe he would have moved along or been stopped or apprehended before so much carnage.

He didn't seem too worried about the repercussions here.911 was called immediately in this instance. I suppose a mom on a cell could have called, what, 30 seconds faster, as he entered the building through the glass? It wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome.

 

[shader]

I couldn't watch much coverage yesterday, but I feel like CNN is doing a nice, respectful job with it today. I like this Don Lemon guy on lead.

I don't recall seeing the killer's picture once... in at least two hours of viewing.

They just showed it.

Weird... he looks perfectly sane. Same googly eyes as the jackass who shot up the movie theater.

He looks like a living skull.

My link

Prob the type of #### he heard his whole life that did nothing for the hate anger and murder building in his heart. Maybe that's a change Americans should take before they rush to ban some scary looking guns, violent video games, and lock up those they deem danger to society.

So they cant be banned because guns and violent video games are important to many violent Americans? Get new hobbies.

 

[Novice2]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

Seriously. How could they possibly have done anything on Friday?

Just watched the news this morning and have heard multiple times it could have been much worse if it weren't for the quick response of the police. Lets say what the op regarding this was done at the school. Would people still die? Yes but it would have started outside the school and gave the police or whatever security the school has that much more time to respond.

 

[Otis]

Just spitballing here, but how about if half a dozen parents (or more) patrolled campuses during school hours to alert authorities of strangers on the grounds? Some of them could just sit in their cars eating donuts and listening to the radio. Seems like it could be done as volunteers, so no cost. And after an incident like this, it seems as if there would be no shortage of volunteers.

How are those parents going to prevent a shooting?

Seriously. How could they possibly have done anything on Friday?

Just watched the news this morning and have heard multiple times it could have been much worse if it weren't for the quick response of the police. Lets say what the op regarding this was done at the school. Would people still die? Yes but it would have started outside the school and gave the police or whatever security the school has that much more time to respond.

The shooting went on for about 10 minutes. A mom outside on her cell phone is not going to slow this significantly. I guess it's better than doing nothing, but in this particular case it would not have made a difference.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

Yeah, the last thing we need to do is give suburban moms another excuse to be doing something "important" while really just yapping on the phone with their friends.

 

[GroveDiesel]

My guess is that any parent/grandparent standing "watch" outside with a cellphone just would have been the first victim.

The truth that very few want to accept because it shatters our illusion of safety is that it's virtually impossible to stop every deranged individual from killing people if they are really set on it. Almost nobody has guns in China and they certainly don't have violent video games like we do and yet some guy went in and stabbed 22 elementary students.

I'm not saying that we should just throw our hands up and say nothing can be done, but the truth is this type of stuff will most likely continue to happen no matter what we do.

 

[gump]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know what both the Mom and the killer have been doing for the last three years. There has been no word with respect to the mom working, and the son seemed to have not even graduated from the high school. So it was just the two of them holed up in the house with her guns? Is this just a case where the kid was losing his mind, and the mom was either hiding it, or denying that he needed more help than she could give?

There is an article on the Daily Mail website that says that the mom was a survivalist that thought the breakdown of society was rapidly approaching. To the point she was hoarding food and supplies. Some people that knew her seemed to think she was barely keeping it together herself.I think it's very possible that she was mentally ill and fueled this whole thing. She may have had him convinced civilization was about the collapse to the point where he thought he was sparing his mom and the kids from dealing with that.

I've seen mixed reports on Nancy also. In addition to the above, it's also reported that she was outgoing, loved the Redsox, and was making progress helping her son take on more responsibility like driving.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

My guess is that any parent/grandparent standing "watch" outside with a cellphone just would have been the first victim.

Exactly especially if the killer knows the school does that.

 

[shadyridr]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/year_olds_who_ran_into_gunfire_PY9xCKzemk7H5Cj05bubxJ

 

[Mario Kart]

Maybe this is slightly off topic, but does anybody know what both the Mom and the killer have been doing for the last three years. There has been no word with respect to the mom working, and the son seemed to have not even graduated from the high school. So it was just the two of them holed up in the house with her guns? Is this just a case where the kid was losing his mind, and the mom was either hiding it, or denying that he needed more help than she could give?

There is an article on the Daily Mail website that says that the mom was a survivalist that thought the breakdown of society was rapidly approaching. To the point she was hoarding food and supplies. Some people that knew her seemed to think she was barely keeping it together herself.I think it's very possible that she was mentally ill and fueled this whole thing. She may have had him convinced civilization was about the collapse to the point where he thought he was sparing his mom and the kids from dealing with that.

Not sure how credible the Daily Mail is but I have heard/read nothing about what the house looks like. Might just be trying to stir something up in hopes of being first, again.Also, to go along with this supposed article. If I hear this kid did this for the sake of the kids because the Mayan calendar is coming to an end, then the media has really lost it.

 

[glock]

Of all the articles I've read trying to figure out what to make of this tragedy, and what can be done to help prevent the next one, this one rings the truest to me.

It's been picked up in a few places -- Huffington Post, MSN -- with the admittedly linkbait headline "I Am Adam Lanza's Mother". I've posted the original article here with it's original title, "Thinking the Unthinkable", as the author Liza Long posted it on her blog.

Friday, December 14, 2012

Thinking the Unthinkable

In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid #####. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid #####. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan—they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork—"Were there any difficulties with....at what age did your child....were there any problems with...has your child ever experienced...does your child have...."

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying—that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys—and their mothers—need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. (http://www.motherjon...s-shootings-map). Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise—in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population. (http://www.hrw.org/n...sons-quadrupled)

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill—Rikers Island, the LA County Jail, and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011 (http://www.npr.org/2...y-ill-prisoners)

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.

Link

Great read, thanks for posting.

Unreal. Thanks.

 

[=Smackdown=]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/year_olds_who_ran_into_gunfire_PY9xCKzemk7H5Cj05bubxJ

Oh God - wish I didn't read that.

 

[Mario Kart]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/year_olds_who_ran_into_gunfire_PY9xCKzemk7H5Cj05bubxJ

I can't imagine walking around that school, doing some investigations, talking about whatever the cops were talking about and then opening this door to see seven sets of eyes staring at me. Not sure if I would be shocked but holy crap.

 

[belljr]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/year_olds_who_ran_into_gunfire_PY9xCKzemk7H5Cj05bubxJ

Oh God - wish I didn't read that.

 

[RBM]

Absolutely brutal school drop off today for parents.

 

[glock]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.

http://www.nypost.co...emk7H5Cj05bubxJ

Where do THEY get these accounts, though? The Post is okay if you are a fan of paparazzi pics.

 

[culdeus]

Absolutely brutal school drop off today for parents.

Yeah. Tough one. Huge amount of parents milling about at the drop.

 

[Wrigley]

Huge police present at all local school here.

 

[belljr]

Dont read this if you dont feel like crying but these heroes' (including the little kids) stories need to be remembered.

http://www.nypost.co...emk7H5Cj05bubxJ

Where do THEY get these accounts, though? The Post is okay if you are a fan of paparazzi pics.

Well - I'm guessing some of the kids said something and the police mentioned it in their report

 

[Billy Bats]

Hate to be that guy and it's terrible to say, but half of that article isn't true. And I wonder if any of it has much truth to it unfortunately. Some of it was gathered from bogus FB tales of that day, it's just amazing how bad "reporting" has become, every newspaper and media outlet has turned into the national enquirer.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Huge police present at all local school here.

I'll be honest, I don't really get this. Are they worried about copycats or something? Or is it just a show to make people feel better?

 

[belljr]

Huge police present at all local school here.

I'll be honest, I don't really get this. Are they worried about copycats or something? Or is it just a show to make people feel better?

Probably a little of both

 

[Limp Ditka]

Huge police present at all local school here.

One in front, one in the parking lot where drop offs take place.