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Anquan Boldin the next Moss (1 Viewer)

I say that because I think after his monster game one, defenses have keyed in on him. Also, that's a pretty big milestone to reach. Looking at last year's premier WRs, for instance, and you'll see that other than Owens (3 games), Harrison, and Booker (2 games each), nobody went over 150 yards twice in a season. Moss never went over 150, nor did Moulds, Holt, Horn, or Mason.

So, while I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying its unlikely.

 
I have Boldin in a couple of my leagues (including a dynasty). I see in him a real good #2 WR, and a super #3. Good call Switz. At the time, nobody really knew how the Arizona receiving situation would break.Having said that, I thought the two rookies were the best WRs in camp, but couldn't really prognosticate beyond that.

 
I say that because I think after his monster game one, defenses have keyed in on him. Also, that's a pretty big milestone to reach. Looking at last year's premier WRs, for instance, and you'll see that other than Owens (3 games), Harrison, and Booker (2 games each), nobody went over 150 yards twice in a season. Moss never went over 150, nor did Moulds, Holt, Horn, or Mason.

So, while I'm not saying it won't happen, I'm saying its unlikely.
fair enough
 
Fellas - the jury is still out regarding "Boldin as the next Moss". Boldin had a great 1st game - phenomenal by anyone's standards. If he had kept his stats anywhere near his first-game performance, I would be eating my words. But I'm not. Moss was the #1 WR his rookie year. Not the #1 rookie - the #1 WR in the league. This feat is all the more impressive considering how few receptions Moss had in the early part of his rookie season. He absolutely destroyed teams in the last two-thirds of his rookie year. Boldin, on the other hand, seems to be experiencing a drop in statistics - especially regarding his TD production. Whereas Moss was a TD machine his rookie year, Boldin has scored 2 TDs in his first 6 games. In fact, those 2 TDs both came in the first game! How many WR "studs" go 5 games (and counting)without a TD reception? I see people bashing those of us who said it was silly to equate Boldin with Moss. Those same people are now back-pedaling furiously, equating a "good rookie year" with being "the next Randy Moss". To summarize some of the statements above: Boldin IS the next Moss as long as being the next Moss does NOT mean comparing the 2 in terms of physical attributes or statistical production (especially in the TD department). That's a silly position to take - if you really ment a good rookie year, why not have said "Boldin was the next Torry Holt" or "the next Rod Gardner"? Maybe it's because you really ment what you said about him "being the next Randy Moss" and now you see it simply isn't true.

 
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That's a silly position to take - if you really ment a good rookie year, why not have said "Boldin was the next Torry Holt" or "the next Rod Gardner"? Maybe it's because you really ment what you said about him "being the next Randy Moss" and now you see it simply isn't true.
That's an easy quesiton to answer - because when you say the next Torry Holt or the next Rod Gardner, people don't think "great rookie WR" - when you say the next Moss, they do.
Grilled Cheesehead Sep 8, 2003 wrote:Apparently I overestimated the general intelligence on these boards. What is it you people don't understand about the figure of speech called the metaphor? Switz gets blasted repeatedly for making a comparison as if it were literal, a direct comparison to Randy Moss. It is clear from his original post that he was using the name "Randy Moss" as a generic term for "Stud WR". At least I thought it was.
Moss stands out as the great rookie WR, or as a Stud WR. Bottom line is, you were wrong. You can twist things how you want, you can suppose what was intended, or even twist the analogy to make it look like you were right. But the bottom line is that Boldin is averaging 99 yards a game, nowhere near the waiver wire material most of you claimed he was.
 
switz - for the record then, when you said "Boldin is the next Randy Moss" you DID NOT mean he would come close to being the best WR in the league his rookie year - which is what Moss did. Instead, what you really intended to say was "he'll have a good rookie year for a WR"? If you honestly don't see a difference between the two, then I apologize. For future reference, however, please explain in far greater detail what you mean by the title of each of your threads, as this one in particular is somewhat misleading.

 
OK, for the record I own Boldin.Now, since week one (where nobody knew who he was) he has not scored a TD nor has he gone over 100 yards. He has had some nice games, but the best he has done is 90+ yards, twice. That is only 9 points, nothing great about that IMO.He had a 33 yard output against the Cowboys, that's pitiful. If you play in a leagye without 1 pt per rec and only 2 WR's, he is not that great of a start..matter of fact, he is a risky start in those leagues.Now, if your league gives a 1pt per reception and you start 3 Wr's, he makes a good start...Not to beat a dead horse, but he still plays for the Cards and they are not scaring anyone with a rushing attack. I truly believe he is going to be keyed in on and covered well and rookie WR's TEND to slow down their production as the season wears on. (That may be an untrue generalization, as I don't have the stats to back it up.)I think A Boldin is a guy you want to trade away at this point.

 
Bottom line is, you were wrong. You can twist things how you want, you can suppose what was intended, or even twist the analogy to make it look like you were right. But the bottom line is that Boldin is averaging 99 yards a game, nowhere near the waiver wire material most of you claimed he was.
We can both type "you were wrong, you were wrong, you were wrong,...." over and over again, it does absolutely nothing to settle the issue. For the record, I don't harbor any grudge with switz, I simply disagree with his position. Here's why:switz voluntarily posts the thread entitled:

"Anquan Boldin the next Moss; I know it sounds crazy but...."

switz put those words in the title - no one forced him to use that title and no one "twisted" the words around. He typed it in himself. Granted, there would have been far fewer replies if switz had simply said "Boldin should have a good season", but I would have been far more likely to agree with that statement (despite switz's claim, I never stated Boldin was "waiver wire material", just that he was not "the next Moss"). While I agree with half of the title switz used - it does sound crazy - I disagree with the overall concept of Boldin=Moss. Here's why:

- Let's pretend switz is right: Boldin = Moss

I know some disagree with it (including me), but just play along.

- switz now (after considerable debate) contends that what he in fact ment was: Boldin = good rookie season by a WR

It bears mentioning that Boldin's averages for both "yards-per-game" and "average TDs-per-game" have dropped each and every week since his fantastic first game, but let's give switz the benefit of the doubt and assume that he ends up with a "good rookie season"

- As we all know (or should know): Moss = greatest rookie season EVER by a WR

He had 1,313 receiving yards and 17 TDs his rookie year!!

- According then to the logic (or lack there of), we should then believe that: good rookie season by a WR = greatest rookie season EVER by a WR

I am not "twisting" anything when I say that it's simply an incorrect statement. (In fact, I think one could reasonably make a case that switz continues to "twist" the meaning of the title of his own post so he can keep up the "you were wrong" chant.) If we assume that a good rookie season means you're "the next Moss" then Andre Johnson is the next Moss - he's another WR having a good rookie season. And Charles Rogers is the next Moss - prior to being injured he was having a good rookie season. I don't think they are, because Randy Moss was simply the best at his position his rookie year. If you had him on your team you started him - and he probably lead you to a winning season. He dominated at the WR position in a way that Boldin simply does not. At the end of Boldin's first season, there will be no debate. We can simply look at the stats for both player's rookie year side-by-side and let the numbers speak for themselves. I, for one, am looking forward to that moment.

 
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I am just seeing this topic for the first time. I am amazed that There are a few still bashing Switz for his preaseason comments. First of all, I take his original comment, as most others apparently do, to mean he would be the next great impact (or stud or whatever other word you want to use) rookie WR (since there have never been many tru studs).More specifically, even if you take it anally literal, he compares fairly well to Moss's rookie season.

If he had kept his stats anywhere near his first-game performance, I would be eating my words. But I'm not.
Absolutely impossible. An absurd way to judge a player. He won't average anywhere near that at any point in his career. Not even Moss can average 217 (or anywhere near) for a season. In fact, if you remove Moss's best yardage game as a rookie (190 yds), he averaged 74.86 yds per game in the rest of the games that season. Nowhere near 190 or 217. Boldin has averaged only 77 yds per game since week one. Hmmmm, Remarkably similar.
This feat is all the more impressive considering how few receptions Moss had in the early part of his rookie season. He absolutely destroyed teams in the last two-thirds of his rookie year. Boldin, on the other hand, seems to be experiencing a drop in statistics - especially regarding his TD production.
Let's look at Moss's rookie year. His first 5 games - 463 yds - 92.6 yds a game. The last 11 - 77.27 yds a game. In fact, the last 5 games, he had 462 yds - almost exactly the same as the first 5! As for Boldin, do you penalize a player for a fast start? Also, even though you were wrong, you stated Moss started slow and came on strong at the end. Not that he has started slow, but don't you extend the same opportunity to Boldin? In fact, in Boldin's first 5 games, he had 495 yds - not only remakably similar but slightly better than Moss.
Whereas Moss was a TD machine his rookie year, Boldin has scored 2 TDs in his first 6 games.
Yes, Moss scored an unbelievable amount of TD's his rookie season and Boldin is nowhere near that pace. But, any rational, objective person would agree that TD's are more the result of the team's offense than the individual's ability. Minnesota QB's that year were Brad Johnson and Cunningham and they threw for 41 TD's and 4492 yards! In fact, of the 33 TD's that went to receivers, MOss caught 17, or, 51.5%. Boldin has 2 of the 4 TD's thrown to AZ WR's, or, 50%. Minnesota's running game (r. Smith) was far better than AZ's current running game. Once again, looking at just TD's, Hoard had 9 rushing TD's vs Smith's 6 that year. Would anybody favorably compare Hoard to Smith based on TD production? No. It's just the by-product of their offense. Finally, Minnesota's offense was #1 in scoring that year (55 points more than 2nd place!) and Arizona's offense this year is 32nd in scoring. I'll say that so that is clear - Arizona has, as a team, scored the least amount of points in the league. How can you, with any fairness and objectivity, compare the players' individual scoring? My god, Minnesota 1998 season is the NFL scoring record!
How many WR "studs" go 5 games (and counting)without a TD reception?
Yes, Moss didn't go 5 games without a TD. But he did go 4 straight games in his rookie year without a TD. I can see how that might look statistically significant.
At the end of Boldin's first season, there will be no debate. We can simply look at the stats for both player's rookie year side-by-side and let the numbers speak for themselves.
That will be the proof. All we can do is project right now. Since everyone wants to NOT include Boldin's first week stats in his projection, let's do that. Since the first week, Boldin is 29-385-0 which, for 15 weeks, projects to 81-1155-0. Add the 1st week back in (we aren't including it in his weekly average but he does still credit for that game, doesn't he?) and you get 91-1372-2. Once again, TD's aren't close. But receptions and yardage are not only similar, but Boldin actually exceeds Moss (69-1313-17).
He had a 33 yard output against the Cowboys, that's pitiful.
Yep, that is pitiful. No stud would EVER have a game like that. Oh yeah, except for Moss's 4 games in his rookie season where he had 37, 32, 14, and 6 yds in games. But then, those were probably the games he didn't try very hard.
- switz now (after considerable debate) contends that what he in fact ment was: Boldin = good rookie season by a WR
What does Switz have to do, beat you over the head with the words "great" and "stud". You aren't twisting his words, you're ignoring them. "Moss stands out as the great rookie WR, or as a Stud WR" is what he clearly stated. Thus, if you replace the word 'Moss' with 'Boldin' you very simply get:"Boldin stands out as the great rookie WR, or as a Stud WR."That is what he clearly meant (and has stated).
It bears mentioning that Boldin's averages for both "yards-per-game" and "average TDs-per-game" have dropped each and every week since his fantastic first game
This is my favorite. What is this? Math for Politicians? I assume what you mean here is that at the end of each week, his "yards-per-game" are lower than the week before. What a unique spin to put on stats. Obviously, to anybody with basic math ability, if you start with an absurdly high number (217), and add moderately lower numbers (average of 77) to it, it takes awhile for the average to drop below 77. In fact, you can add 77 per week the rest of the year and the per week average will drop every week. He still will end up with 1372 yards. Does your stat add any meaning at all? Once again, you penalize Boldin for having probably the highest (game) receiving yards of the year occur in his first week. Moss had 190 yards (his most that year) in week 5 his rookie year. Had he done that in week 1, it would have taken him till after game 11 to see his per-game receiving yards rise from the week before. Does that tell you anything at all? Only that he had his best weeek in week 1.This has taken 3 hours, 7 beers, and 8 innings to complete. Great Championship Series', though. The Series is going to be a letdown.
 
Nice post. I think anyone bashing switz for this prediction is off base. He made a good call on Boldin even if Anquan fails to reach Randy Moss type numbers.

 
BuckeyeArt - that is the best post in this thread, easily. And as only your 2nd post ever, it's one heck of starting point. You've got a lot to live up to now. Props to you! If I were a better man, I would even pass up the opportunity to mention that win by my Badgers over your Buckeyes last week. ;)

 
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I have a solution for any interested parties that will put this whole silly arguement to bed until the end of the season. It's a simple bet on the whole "Boldin is the next Randy Moss" issue. At the end of this season, we will use traditional scoring procedures to calculate the fantasy points of both player's rookie seasons: 1 point for every 10 receiving yards, 6 points per touchdown. The "Boldin is the next Moss" supporters will win if Boldin has 90% of Randy Moss' rookie fantasy points. Anything less than 90%, and I win. (I know what you're going to say - if he's really the next Moss, shouldn't it be more like 95% of Moss' fantasy points? But hey, I'm feeling generous tonight! ;) )Signature wager - if I lose I will keep in my signature for one year the following: "I was wrong to disagree with those who said Boldin was the next Randy Moss. I hope never to be so foolish again." If Boldin has less than 90% of Moss rookie fantasy points (and I'm betting he will) than those who lost will add to their signatures for one year: "I was wrong to to say that Boldin was the next Randy Moss. I hope never to be so foolish again."It's put up or shut up time fellas! No more back pedaling about saying someone is "the next Randy Moss" doesn't MEAN he's going to have stats like Randy Moss, ability like Moss, hit parking police with his car like Randy Moss etc. etc. I never had an issue with Boldin being a good WR, my issue is that he is NOT "the next Randy Moss". Quit screwing around playing the "what-I-really-ment-to-say" game. It gets us nowhere - if the meaning of your statement is always changing, you can never be proven wrong or right. Have some conviction. Boldin is either "the next randy Moss" or he isn't. (And, hey, with this wager he only needs to be 90% of the "next Randy Moss"!) If you have conviction about your belief, stand behind it - I'm willing to.

 
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At the end of this season, we will use traditional scoring procedures to calculate the fantasy points of both player's rookie seasons: 1 point for every 10 receiving yards, 6 points per touchdown. The "Boldin is the next Moss" supporters will win if Boldin has 90% of Randy Moss' rookie fantasy points. Anything less than 90%, and I win. (I know what you're going to say - if he's really the next Moss, shouldn't it be more like 95% of Moss' fantasy points? But hey, I'm feeling generous tonight! ;) )
First, I don't do bets, it doesn't matter what's wagered. You can go back every post I've ever made, I don't gamble, I don't bet. I don't play in any pay leagues either.Regardless, I don't expect Boldin to score 17 TDs, or even 15 TDs. It's ludicrous to even assume I thought he would when I originally posted the comparison. Quite frankly, Moss was in a completely different offensive situation than Boldin is in. I think Boldin will put up respectable TD #s when all is said and done. MAybe even 10, but I think 7-8 is more likely. At that though, 1300 yards and 8 TDs will go down as a STUD WR year, and as one of the best (second ONLY to Moss) rookie WR seasons ever.You can play all the semantics you want, but it just makes you look worse each time you try to "prove" you were right.BTW - I wasn't accusing you personally of saying Boldin was waiver wire material, and I understand you took my comparison very literally. But you have to understand that I was not making a literal comparison, as everyone else did. And even if Boldin scores 60 or 70% of the fantasy points Moss did as a rookie, from an NFL perspective he's still en route to one of the best rookie WR seasons EVER.
 
Switz was obviously exaggerating, because getting 17 TD's is hard enough even for proven vets.Boldin breaks 1000 yards and 6 TD's, and for a rookie without a HOFer opposite him, those are really good numbers.

 
KCC=MORON!!!!!

Who the hell are you, Robert Reed from the Brady Bunch "playing by exact words" in that episode where him and Greg get into a spat about mincing words?

Techinally you are right in your ###esment that Anquan Boldin cannot be the next Randy Moss. There are millions of reasons why he cannot be so.... from skin color to age to DNA structuring. Tell me, can noone ever utter the phrase "/insert name here/ will be the next /insert another player here/" in your presence? Would you have felt better if he choose another player to compare Boldin too? However, I think that myself, and most of the denizens of this site realize the spirit of the post by Switz and resent the fact that feel the need to call him to task for a his exaggarated banner title. We realize that in the spirit of his post he meant that Boldin has the ability to be a dominant rookie reciever and surprise everyone because he flew under the radar. I appreciate Switz's insight as it enabled me to grab Boldin before all of his hype started up. I don't appreciate however, your innane banter.

 
The real question is...Did the Cardinals do great scouting work, or did they just get real lucky??? :confused:
I honestly think it was good scouting. I tihnk they saw abiltiies, knew he would drop, but snagged him a round earlier than many thought he would fall to because they really wanted him
 
zsasz - Thank you for elevating the discussion through the clever use of name calling and Brady Bunch references. We're all glad you were able to save us from the "innane banter"! :lol: Shall I assume you are interested in taking me up on my wager????

 
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Anquan Boldin is a very good reciever, I should know Im a big FSU fan, but comparing Boldin to Moss is rediculous because Moss has much much better hands, is much faster, and he also has all the intagables to go along with his speed and size. Moss just knows how to go up and steal the ball from defenders and I havent seen any of that from Boldin, not even at Florida state even tho he was FSUs best players last year.

 
Nice post, BuckeyeArt. Insightful, logical and supported by relevant stats.Of course, I was about to say the exact same thing, word for word...but then, uh...my phone rang...and, err, the dog wanted out... :rolleyes:

 
I have a solution for any interested parties that will put this whole silly arguement to bed until the end of the season. It's a simple bet on the whole "Boldin is the next Randy Moss" issue. At the end of this season, we will use traditional scoring procedures to calculate the fantasy points of both player's rookie seasons: 1 point for every 10 receiving yards, 6 points per touchdown. The "Boldin is the next Moss" supporters will win if Boldin has 90% of Randy Moss' rookie fantasy points. Anything less than 90%, and I win. (I know what you're going to say - if he's really the next Moss, shouldn't it be more like 95% of Moss' fantasy points? But hey, I'm feeling generous tonight! ;) )Signature wager - if I lose I will keep in my signature for one year the following: "I was wrong to disagree with those who said Boldin was the next Randy Moss. I hope never to be so foolish again." If Boldin has less than 90% of Moss rookie fantasy points (and I'm betting he will) than those who lost will add to their signatures for one year: "I was wrong to to say that Boldin was the next Randy Moss. I hope never to be so foolish again."It's put up or shut up time fellas! No more back pedaling about saying someone is "the next Randy Moss" doesn't MEAN he's going to have stats like Randy Moss, ability like Moss, hit parking police with his car like Randy Moss etc. etc. I never had an issue with Boldin being a good WR, my issue is that he is NOT "the next Randy Moss". Quit screwing around playing the "what-I-really-ment-to-say" game. It gets us nowhere - if the meaning of your statement is always changing, you can never be proven wrong or right. Have some conviction. Boldin is either "the next randy Moss" or he isn't. (And, hey, with this wager he only needs to be 90% of the "next Randy Moss"!) If you have conviction about your belief, stand behind it - I'm willing to.
Hey Numbnuts....he means have a serious fantasy impact as a rookie WR. Randy Moss was the last rookie WR to do that. Chambers was close. Before Moss it was Terry Glenn. Before that, I have no idea.He should've stated, "Boldin will be the next rookie WR to have a serious fantasy impact." Boldin doesn't have to be 90% of Moss to make a fantasy impact as a rookie WR. Being an impact as a rookie is really rare. Putting up 90% of Moss is damn near impossible. BTW, way to go out on a limb on that 90% of Moss bet....I've got one, I'll bet you that the sun WILL rise tomorrow. Will you take that bet?But if you want to keep arguing semantics and gripe, keep going because you are only making yourself look like a fool. Switz made the mother of all calls with this one and you feel the need to knock him down....Good luck with that....
 
Firstly, I do believe that Boldin will probably have one of the best rookie WR seasons ever. Considering that talent, or lack thereof surrounding him, it could arguably be considered the best, if you're not relying solely on statistics.Since everyone seems to be getting pretty "nit-picky" about this. One other thing to note was that Moss was a known quantity coming into the draft, and if memory serves correct preformed well at the combine. He "fell" to the 21st spot in the draft because of off-the-field issues (which are undoubtedly important). Noone argued that he wasn't top 5 overall talent. Moss also hasn't eclipsed his rookie TD numbers, so since we're debating this to the point of ridiculousness, would it not then be logical to say that Moss has experienced a decrease in statistics? No, because history and his talent tells us otherwise. Wait on Boldin and see what he does over a couple seasons before you dismiss him. He doesn't have the physical tools that Moss does, but he's performing very well for someone who wasn't even projected as the #3 WR in ARZ of all places prior to training camp.Boldin was selected later because teams generally didn't think he was one of the top 5 picks, let alone a top 5 WR, I believe he was the 6th WR taken. Whether or not Switz meant his comparasin "Literally" is pretty much irrelevant. No, this isn't a personal shot at you KCC, but generally I find people take things far too literally on message boards to begin with. But, personally I took it to mean "Boldin will have a much better than expected rookie season," especially for a guy that wasn't on the majority of peoples radars. But, that's just me.Personally, I see him more in the mold of Terrell Owens, albeit slightly smaller and not quite as fast. Just my $.02

 
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Is Boldin "the next Moss"? Not really - not from an NFL perspective and particularly not from a FF persepctive because of the UNDERSTANDABLE lack of TDs. At the end of the year, Boldin will not have made the impact that Moss did his rookie year (this is just my opinion of course).HOWEVER, the fact that the comparison is even being debated says that Switz clearly made a really nice call on Boldin's potential this year. He is has been better than most of us would have believed going into the season. He seems to have an uncanny ability to get open and make tough catches depsite lacking the speed of a guy like Moss.To "bash" Switz based on this "prediction" or to "call him out" and try to make ridiculous bets with him is just plain silly. I mean it really takes a big man to bet AGAINST a guy having the best rookie season by a WR ever doesn't it? Really shows a lot of class. :rolleyes: At worst, Switz exaggerated a bit in the process of making one of the better "calls" of the year.

 
At worst, Switz exaggerated a bit in the process of making one of the better "calls" of the year.
Please scour this board and find me a better call than this one? Give credit where credit is due - This is the best call not only this year, but the best call I can remember in Fantasy Football and I've been in since 95. The guy was an unknown on a horrible team and Switz compared him to one of the most talented WR's in the history of the league and so far the kid has some significant stats to back up the call....Mad props to Switz...
 
Is it true that Anquan Bolden was just arrested for marijuana and bumping into a traffic cop? :eek:

Maybe there's more to this Bolden = Moss story that meets the eye :D

:rotflmao: :thumbup: :yes: :rotflmao: :thumbup: :yes:

 
Moss has much much better hands
While I agree that Moss has speed that Boldin does not - Boldin is better in the hands category:Moss has been targetted 49 times and has only 29 catches (59%)Boldin has been targetted 60 times and has 39 catches (65%)plus if you've watched, some of Boldin's catches have been pretty acrobatic.-----Moss' longest catch = 72Boldin's longest catch = 71-----Moss' YAC/rec = 4.3Boldin's YAC/rec = 6.77-----I agree that Boldin's measurables may not measure up to Moss', but he's performing better than Moss in every category except TDs, and he's got far inferior QBs throwing to him than Moss ever has...-----Not that I meant to compare them in a literal sense, but now that Moss has something less than HOF next to him, he's in the realm of mortals and Boldin's performance thus far is better this season, except in TDs.
 
Switz there is no arguement Moss has WAY better hands then Boldin, if you havent been watching Moss makes a catch every week that Boldin wouldnt make all year. Boldin is good but Moss steals balls from defenders every week because he has great hands.

 
I agree that Boldin's measurables may not measure up to Moss', but he's performing better than Moss in every category except TDs
You conveniently left out yards per reception. Moss 17.8 vs. Boldin's 15.2. Moss obviously runs a lot more deep routes than Boldin, so it stands to reason that you would complete less of those passes, that doesn't mean that Moss doesn't have as good hands as Boldin.
 
I am just seeing this topic for the first time. I am amazed that There are a few still bashing Switz for his preaseason comments. First of all, I take his original comment, as most others apparently do, to mean he would be the next great impact (or stud or whatever other word you want to use) rookie WR (since there have never been many tru studs).More specifically, even if you take it anally literal, he compares fairly well to Moss's rookie season.Absolutely impossible. An absurd way to judge a player. He won't average anywhere near that at any point in his career. Not even Moss can average 217 (or anywhere near) for a season. In fact, if you remove Moss's best yardage game as a rookie (190 yds), he averaged 74.86 yds per game in the rest of the games that season. Nowhere near 190 or 217. Boldin has averaged only 77 yds per game since week one. Hmmmm, Remarkably similar.Let's look at Moss's rookie year. His first 5 games - 463 yds - 92.6 yds a game. The last 11 - 77.27 yds a game. In fact, the last 5 games, he had 462 yds - almost exactly the same as the first 5! As for Boldin, do you penalize a player for a fast start? Also, even though you were wrong, you stated Moss started slow and came on strong at the end. Not that he has started slow, but don't you extend the same opportunity to Boldin? In fact, in Boldin's first 5 games, he had 495 yds - not only remakably similar but slightly better than Moss.Yes, Moss scored an unbelievable amount of TD's his rookie season and Boldin is nowhere near that pace. But, any rational, objective person would agree that TD's are more the result of the team's offense than the individual's ability. Minnesota QB's that year were Brad Johnson and Cunningham and they threw for 41 TD's and 4492 yards! In fact, of the 33 TD's that went to receivers, MOss caught 17, or, 51.5%. Boldin has 2 of the 4 TD's thrown to AZ WR's, or, 50%. Minnesota's running game (r. Smith) was far better than AZ's current running game. Once again, looking at just TD's, Hoard had 9 rushing TD's vs Smith's 6 that year. Would anybody favorably compare Hoard to Smith based on TD production? No. It's just the by-product of their offense. Finally, Minnesota's offense was #1 in scoring that year (55 points more than 2nd place!) and Arizona's offense this year is 32nd in scoring. I'll say that so that is clear - Arizona has, as a team, scored the least amount of points in the league. How can you, with any fairness and objectivity, compare the players' individual scoring? My god, Minnesota 1998 season is the NFL scoring record!Yes, Moss didn't go 5 games without a TD. But he did go 4 straight games in his rookie year without a TD. I can see how that might look statistically significant.That will be the proof. All we can do is project right now. Since everyone wants to NOT include Boldin's first week stats in his projection, let's do that. Since the first week, Boldin is 29-385-0 which, for 15 weeks, projects to 81-1155-0. Add the 1st week back in (we aren't including it in his weekly average but he does still credit for that game, doesn't he?) and you get 91-1372-2. Once again, TD's aren't close. But receptions and yardage are not only similar, but Boldin actually exceeds Moss (69-1313-17).Yep, that is pitiful. No stud would EVER have a game like that. Oh yeah, except for Moss's 4 games in his rookie season where he had 37, 32, 14, and 6 yds in games. But then, those were probably the games he didn't try very hard.What does Switz have to do, beat you over the head with the words "great" and "stud". You aren't twisting his words, you're ignoring them. "Moss stands out as the great rookie WR, or as a Stud WR" is what he clearly stated. Thus, if you replace the word 'Moss' with 'Boldin' you very simply get:"Boldin stands out as the great rookie WR, or as a Stud WR."That is what he clearly meant (and has stated).This is my favorite. What is this? Math for Politicians? I assume what you mean here is that at the end of each week, his "yards-per-game" are lower than the week before. What a unique spin to put on stats. Obviously, to anybody with basic math ability, if you start with an absurdly high number (217), and add moderately lower numbers (average of 77) to it, it takes awhile for the average to drop below 77. In fact, you can add 77 per week the rest of the year and the per week average will drop every week. He still will end up with 1372 yards. Does your stat add any meaning at all? Once again, you penalize Boldin for having probably the highest (game) receiving yards of the year occur in his first week. Moss had 190 yards (his most that year) in week 5 his rookie year. Had he done that in week 1, it would have taken him till after game 11 to see his per-game receiving yards rise from the week before. Does that tell you anything at all? Only that he had his best weeek in week 1.This has taken 3 hours, 7 beers, and 8 innings to complete. Great Championship Series', though. The Series is going to be a letdown.
I hereby nominate this for "Post of the Year"!! It is well-written, well-thought-out, and addresses every point made in this thread creatively, logically, and in a manner well-supported by statistics. Nice job!respectfully submitted,mlwinokur
 
I'll say this again slowly. Moss was the #1 fantasy WR in the NFL his rookie year. I'm not fabricating that data. I posted it above - look it up if you don't believe me. Boldin isn't anywhere close to that - he isn't even in the friggin' ballpark. I can easily name 20 other WRs most logical people would start ahead of Boldin: Moss, Harrison, Owens, Ward, Burress, Boston, Toomer, Horn, Bruce, Holt, Robinson, C. Johnson, Jackson, Mason, Driver, Coles, Gardner, R. Smith, J. Smith, Chambers - that's 20 off the top of my head. I could easily toss out some more. With 20 WRs ahead of Boldin, he isn't even being started in most 10 man 2 WR leagues. Moss was started in every league his rookie year. Why? Because he was the #1 WR - if you had him riding the pine, you were either in a coma or lost on an island somewhere unable to contact your commissioner. If the "Boldin is the next Moss" fans honestly don't see a HUGE difference between the two, please, please, please take me up on my wager. I'm still waiting patiently for 1 person - 1 single person to stand behind their conviction.Edited to add that I'm done beating this dead horse until somebody straps on a pair and takes me up on my wager. As much as this may surprise people - I respect switz quite a bit (even though I disagreed with this post) and that respect extends to his stated position on gambling. I hope to hear from some of the rest of you though.

 
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KCC, this is my first post, and already I'm sick of you. Can't you just appreciate a good prediction? Why do you have to ruin switz's party? I think we've covered the fact that Boldin won't get as many TD's as Moss did, and we've covered the reasons why. Nobody claimed he would get as many fantasy points as Moss. Nobody expected him to. So nobody is going to take your stupid bet.All he said was Boldin will be a very good rookie WR. He is a very good rookie WR - one of the best of all time in fact. People can associate that fact with Moss' rookie year. He didn't say "Anquan Boldin will get as many fantasy points as Randy Moss". Geez, you're a moron.

 
KCC, this is my first post, and already I'm sick of you. Can't you just appreciate a good prediction? Why do you have to ruin switz's party? I think we've covered the fact that Boldin won't get as many TD's as Moss did, and we've covered the reasons why. Nobody claimed he would get as many fantasy points as Moss. Nobody expected him to. So nobody is going to take your stupid bet.All he said was Boldin will be a very good rookie WR. He is a very good rookie WR - one of the best of all time in fact. People can associate that fact with Moss' rookie year. He didn't say "Anquan Boldin will get as many fantasy points as Randy Moss". Geez, you're a moron.
Didn't Switz also predict O. smith to be big? :lol: Shoot 1000 times in the dark and you will hit something...
 
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KCC, this is my first post, and already I'm sick of you. Can't you just appreciate a good prediction? Why do you have to ruin switz's party? I think we've covered the fact that Boldin won't get as many TD's as Moss did, and we've covered the reasons why. Nobody claimed he would get as many fantasy points as Moss. Nobody expected him to. So nobody is going to take your stupid bet.All he said was Boldin will be a very good rookie WR. He is a very good rookie WR - one of the best of all time in fact. People can associate that fact with Moss' rookie year. He didn't say "Anquan Boldin will get as many fantasy points as Randy Moss". Geez, you're a moron.
I always enjoy making new friends! Actually, if you can read, the title of this post isn't "Boldin will be a very good rookie WR" (as you put it) - it's "Anquan Boldin the next Moss". My point was that Boldin IS NOT the next coming of Randy Moss, and, apparently, people agree with me, because, as you've correctly noted, I have yet to have one person take me up on my bet. Keep up the name calling - it's a lot easier on your ego than accepting my wager!
 
While I agree that Moss has speed that Boldin does not - Boldin is better in the hands category:Moss has been targetted 49 times and has only 29 catches (59%)Boldin has been targetted 60 times and has 39 catches (65%)plus if you've watched, some of Boldin's catches have been pretty acrobatic.-----Moss' longest catch = 72Boldin's longest catch = 71-----Moss' YAC/rec = 4.3Boldin's YAC/rec = 6.77-----I agree that Boldin's measurables may not measure up to Moss', but he's performing better than Moss in every category except TDs, and he's got far inferior QBs throwing to him than Moss ever has...-----Not that I meant to compare them in a literal sense, but now that Moss has something less than HOF next to him, he's in the realm of mortals and Boldin's performance thus far is better this season, except in TDs.
Boldin has better hands than Moss? Wow. I personally feel that Moss has some of the best hands ever. I have seen him make some of the most incredible and unbeleivable grabs.Boldin is having a great year and I give you props for calling it out before the season started, that was truly impressive. I also give recognition to your stats. But lets give it some time, like when Boldin has two, if not three defensive backs on him at all times like Moss, then lets see Boldin's stats look.
 
Didn't Switz also predict O. smith to be big? :lol: Shoot 1000 times in the dark and you will hit something...
Yes, I expected O to be a great RB, and if you look at his numbers he was good when he played. He just didn't get a ton of opportunity.However my track record is much better than 1/1000 - just go abck over the last few yearsI was right about LT, Jamal Lewis, Edge, Moss, Portis, Boldin, and more.I was wrong about O Smith, and Ryan Leaf - those are the only two rookies I hyped that didn't turn out well.Kids :rolleyes:
 
LT, Jamal Lewis, Edge, Moss, Portis
Wow! You were right about two #5 picks, a #4 pick, a Heisman finalist with baggage, and a guy who everyone in the nation who was paying attention knew was going to be a stud. Big pat on the back to you! The Boldin pick was great, but lets not get ahead of ourselves. :brush: HERD
 
Wow! You were right about two #5 picks, a #4 pick, a Heisman finalist with baggage, and a guy who everyone in the nation who was paying attention knew was going to be a stud. Big pat on the back to you!
LOL! Go back to this forum during those days, everyone was all over Ricky Williams when I said Edge would have the better rookie year, William Green when I liked Portis, Ron Dayne when I liked Lewis...Hindsight is 20-20, and you can say how obvious my picks were now, but at that point in time people didn't think I was right.
 
Wow! You were right about two #5 picks, a #4 pick, a Heisman finalist with baggage, and a guy who everyone in the nation who was paying attention knew was going to be a stud. Big pat on the back to you!
LOL! Go back to this forum during those days, everyone was all over Ricky Williams when I said Edge would have the better rookie year, William Green when I liked Portis, Ron Dayne when I liked Lewis...Hindsight is 20-20, and you can say how obvious my picks were now, but at that point in time people didn't think I was right.
We need a big head smiley.
 
Statistically Boldin is on pace to beat Randy Moss' rookie year in yardage and crush his total for receptions.

17 TD's is another story. But with that being said, I beleive Moss scored 11 of those TD's over the second half of the '98 season. Boldin has really made a surge since the mid way point, and though he wont get to 17, 12+ is certanly not out of reach.

Will Boldin get to Moss' rookie Fantasy Point Total (234)? I doubt it. Will he come close (200+), you bet!

And that is quite a feat for the FFL-obscure second round pick for the lowly Cardinals.

Absolutley one of the greatest rookie WR performances in FFL that I can recall.

Well done Mr. Boldin, and nice call Mr. Switz! :thumbup:

 
I love the retroactive validity the message board offers. After rereading the thread, my hats off to Nuclear George, Switz, EastBayFunk and Slider for at least publically acknowledging that Anquan Boldin is somebody to consider late in a fantasy football draft.

Certainly nobody could have predicted Anquan Boldin to have such a solid season, and thankfully none of these guys did. But they did take the time to go public and say 'it would not be out of the realm of possibility, keep an eye on him'.

The BlueOnion

 
If you read Switz's post it seems relatively clear to me that he is comparing him directly to Moss, every part except maybe the reciever comment. I'm not saying that Boldin won't be every bit as good as Moss, nor that he will be, i'm just trying to say the they are not all that similar as recievers.P.S. I am rather well-informed and interested with the NFL Draft. I have followed it closely for 3 years (not saying a whole lot but it's better than nothing) and I know that Boldin was projected by many as a mid to late 3rd rounder and it looks like the Cardinals must have seen something in him by taking him in the 2nd. It looks like they got a steal.
HammyVike,If you read my post, you will see I was comparing his situation with Moss' situation, not his talent with Moss' talent.I was using Moss as the superlative rookie STUD WR. I believe(d) Anquan Boldin can be the "next" Moss, as is "break out rookie WR"Also, if you follow the NFL Draft, as you say, you would have seen many felt Boldin could have been a late first rounder, and if he hadn't been injured quite likely would have been.Now you can believe whatever you want, and I took quite a beating for this thread in the first place, but hey that's what FF is about...
This is what I took away from the thread. You do deserve props for the call.Even though I find myself disagreeing with you more often than not, you deserve props for the way you (1) articulately qualify and argue your predictions, (2) don't duck counter-argument, and (3) admit, address and joke about the ones that don't pan out (O.Smith). This one is up there with the FBG (forgot who? sandbagger?) that predicted the Rams offensive decline 2 years ago.
 
if you can read, the title of this post isn't "Boldin will be a very good rookie WR" (as you put it) - it's "Anquan Boldin the next Moss". My point was that Boldin IS NOT the next coming of Randy Moss, and, apparently, people agree with me, because, as you've correctly noted, I have yet to have one person take me up on my bet.
I can read. Can you understand rhetoric?? Obviously not. If you are taking his prediction literally,which is that a no-name WR will break the all time rookie WR record, you, fine sir, are a moron. If you read the entire thread and not just the title maybe you would understand that he used Randy Moss as a symbolic example of a great rookie WR. He didn't say "Anquan Boldin: The next WR to put up Randy Moss' exact stats". For all you know he could have meant "Anquan Boldin: The next WR to run over a traffic cop". He didn't specify, and he shouldn't have had to. Does Boldin have to do EVERYTHING that Moss did in order for his prediction to be true??And refer to my previous post for a reason why nobody took you up on your stupid bet. I already explained it but you chose to ignore it, and instead for the zillionth time recited "I have yet to have one person take me up on my bet".Did you ride the short bus to school? (This is of course assuming taht you had some form of post-kindergarten education)
 
OK, don't tell anyone that hasn't/doesn't read this thread, but here's what we're going to do. Early in August 2004, everyone in on this thread will pick one fairly obscure WR (FOWR) - not necessarily a FA signing, but someone drafted later than the Roy Williams, L. Fitzgeralds, etc.

Copy switz' post from this thread, and insert the name of the FOWR (e.g., Joe Bagadonuts):

Joe Bagadonuts is entrenched as the #X WR according to reports out of TEAM.

So far he's shown tremendous hands in training camp, and they want him on the field for big play potential. He doesn't have great WRs ahead of him. He won't draw double teams. Additionally his QB is known for throwing a beautiful long ball. And the offense is supposed to be more aggressive this year...

Any thoughts?

The winner gets 50% praise and 50% derision. Any takers?

:D

Seriously, switz, nice call. I've popped in and out of this thread over the course of the last few months and my only regret is not seeing it in August. We have a 2 round, 24 pick, rookie-only draft and Boldin wasn't even selected. (I grabbed Fargas/Toefield at the 1.12/2.01 slots.)

The fact that you wrote what you did when you did makes this - if not exactly a "call" - a pretty good pointer to a valuable WR (at least for those that were paying attention :wall: )

 
Just want to say thanks to switz.Picked up Boldin after week 1 because of this thread and the guy has really helped my team this year. (I drafted Marcus Robinson and dropped him for Boldin)Since week 1 he's gotten my team these points:11, 9, 8, 4, 10, bye, 1 (-2 for int, -1 for inc), 14, 19, 8, 25, 5, 18.That's an 11 points/week avg. In a 16 team league, where you start 9 (1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 1K, 1D) max players on roster is 15 (only 6 on bench) this is Huge!!!Had most points overall this year ($$ Bonus) and finished in 2nd.Having one player break out for you during the year can make all the difference.Thanks!!!

 

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