Anti-maskers, can we talk about why? (3 Viewers)

[Shoot_Me_Now]

What other things do you do routinely that have a 1 in 200 chance of death?  People say "the risk that we routinely accept" as though it's comparable to this rate.  The fatality rate of bungee jumping is 1 in 500,000. 

ETA - the odds of dying in a car crash in your lifetime are 1 in 100.  However that's extended over your entire life and it's tough to argue that we should just stop driving.  Doing things to prevent Covid, like social distancing and wearing a mask, is much less inconvenient by comparison. 

If you've been following I've been talking about all the health risks that we as a nation accept relating to being overweight or obese. That then leads to inflated numbers when a virus breaks out but everyone continues to ignore an underlying issue. So my original question was why should we care now? We as a nation gladly accept 99 health risks as far as being overweight but this 100th one is too much? I get it, its from transmission but if we were healthy would this even have set the alarm bells off as much as it did? Or would a bad bug just worked its way through? (Im not saying nobody would have died.) 

So here we are, doing unprecedented things (more than just masks) and im asking why do we all of a sudden care so much about covid but ignore and even encourage being overweight? It can be both a serious virus and cause an overreaction at the same time. Unless of course we're suddenly going to take health seriously. That's why I'm indifferent to masks. We dont actually care about health on a serious enough scale for these reactions to make sense. We accept death. 

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blog/articles/2020/jun/obesity-and-covid-19-can-your-weight-alone-put-you-at-higher-risk/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/latest-evidence-on-obesity-and-covid-19

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/local12.com/amp/news/coronavirus/mild-obesity-linked-to-dangerous-consequences-from-covid-19-cincinnati

 

[Shutout]

If you've been following I've been talking about all the health risks that we as a nation accept relating to being overweight or obese. That then leads to inflated numbers when a virus breaks out but everyone continues to ignore an underlying issue. So my original question was why should we care now? We as a nation gladly accept 99 health risks as far as being overweight but this 100th one is too much? I get it, its from transmission but if we were healthy would this even have set the alarm bells off as much as it did? Or would a bad bug just worked its way through? (Im not saying nobody would have died.) 

So here we are, doing unprecedented things (more than just masks) and im asking why do we all of a sudden care so much about covid but ignore and even encourage being overweight? It can be both a serious virus and cause an overreaction at the same time. Unless of course we're suddenly going to take health seriously. That's why I'm indifferent to masks. We dont actually care about health on a serious enough scale for these reactions to make sense. We accept death. 

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blog/articles/2020/jun/obesity-and-covid-19-can-your-weight-alone-put-you-at-higher-risk/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/latest-evidence-on-obesity-and-covid-19

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/local12.com/amp/news/coronavirus/mild-obesity-linked-to-dangerous-consequences-from-covid-19-cincinnati

One of the most overlooked aspects in what you are asking in regards of why do we care about this and not overweight (or flu,etc) is that we don't know fully what this is because it's new.  We have knowledge and history of diabetes, obesity, flu, respiratory issues, etc but there is a GREAT unknown about Covid. So from that point of view, we might be prudent to be cautious.  

We don't know for sure but what if, just what if, we send all the kids back to school and everyone is saying it's not that bad for kids and then we have a massive outbreak of something that is geared towards younger humans with different development?  In many ways, we insulted and isolated children very early and they don't go to work in essential jobs, etc, and have been sheltered more.  Do we truly know the impacts on children well enough to expose them, en masse and risk something that sticks with them their entire lives?  

That's an extreme example and just conjecture but it's that kind of thinking that separates us from treating these things as equalthings with the same amount of known issues with both. They aren't the same in that regard.  

 

[Hankmoody]

Don't worry, I'll be staying far far away from you.  Also much of what you are convinced it true was not true just weeks ago.  Have fun keeping up with the moving goalposts.

That's the funny thing about new diseases, we do indeed learn new stuff.  I mean it's not like medicine of any kind stands still, but you go ahead and refuse the vaccine because they moved that goalpost too.  What are they even thinking, doing research and testing and stuffs.  They should just leave those goalposts alone and let this thing run its natural course, what another few hundred k lives anyway.

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

One of the most overlooked aspects in what you are asking in regards of why do we care about this and not overweight (or flu,etc) is that we don't know fully what this is because it's new.  We have knowledge and history of diabetes, obesity, flu, respiratory issues, etc but there is a GREAT unknown about Covid. So from that point of view, we might be prudent to be cautious.  

We don't know for sure but what if, just what if, we send all the kids back to school and everyone is saying it's not that bad for kids and then we have a massive outbreak of something that is geared towards younger humans with different development?  In many ways, we insulted and isolated children very early and they don't go to work in essential jobs, etc, and have been sheltered more.  Do we truly know the impacts on children well enough to expose them, en masse and risk something that sticks with them their entire lives?  

That's an extreme example and just conjecture but it's that kind of thinking that separates us from treating these things as equalthings with the same amount of known issues with both. They aren't the same in that regard.  

Right we have a long history of knowing the long term impacts of being overweight and how much death it causes and we still do nothing. Each person has their own ability to reign in their weight (outside of some disability folks) and we dont care. So as a whole if we don't care about health this reaction doesn't make sense. The main at risk groups are elderly and overweight people. Same as countless other health risks. And how much death will we eventually accept anyway just like any other disease? Some that are easily preventable. Wearing a mask is easy. So is walking a mile. We dont have to be in world class shape to put a huge dent in annual deaths but hardly a peep on that front. If we're going to pretend to care about health then lets actually care. I know I know transmission. 

As far as kids thats a huge if. Not saying its not possible but daycares have been open for months (my two kids are there). Kids have been congregating outside of school. My neighbors have been having sleepovers and get togethers routinely. I'm sure its similar across the country. I understand thats not on the scale of a school but at what point do we accept that we can try to open schools? Months? Years?

 

[Captain Cranks]

If you've been following I've been talking about all the health risks that we as a nation accept relating to being overweight or obese. That then leads to inflated numbers when a virus breaks out but everyone continues to ignore an underlying issue. So my original question was why should we care now? We as a nation gladly accept 99 health risks as far as being overweight but this 100th one is too much? I get it, its from transmission but if we were healthy would this even have set the alarm bells off as much as it did? Or would a bad bug just worked its way through? (Im not saying nobody would have died.) 

So here we are, doing unprecedented things (more than just masks) and im asking why do we all of a sudden care so much about covid but ignore and even encourage being overweight? It can be both a serious virus and cause an overreaction at the same time. Unless of course we're suddenly going to take health seriously. That's why I'm indifferent to masks. We dont actually care about health on a serious enough scale for these reactions to make sense. We accept death. 

https://www.houstonmethodist.org/blog/articles/2020/jun/obesity-and-covid-19-can-your-weight-alone-put-you-at-higher-risk/

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/latest-evidence-on-obesity-and-covid-19

https://hub.jhu.edu/2020/06/01/david-kass-obesity-covid-19/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/local12.com/amp/news/coronavirus/mild-obesity-linked-to-dangerous-consequences-from-covid-19-cincinnati

I'm not sure why an attitude about one affects the other.  I don't go around not caring about cigarette smoking because I look around and see a bunch of fatties.  "Well, they don't care about their weight so why should we care about lung disease."  Obesity isn't the only vulnerability Covid attacks.  My son is considered high risk because he has a chronic blood disorder.  People with asthma and type 1 diabetes are at greater risk too.  Is your attitude about them the same as those who are overweight?  If not, couldn't you consider that you're wearing a mask for them?  

I'm with you 100% on the health crisis in this country.  It's disgusting and we turn a blind eye to it because people don't want to be told what they should and shouldn't jam in their mouths.  We'd have much lower cases of cancer and heart disease if we changed our eating habits as a society.  I just don't see how that should affect your attitude about wearing a mask.  

 

[mr. furley]

science: "here's this one really easy thing you can do to protect not only yourselves, but those around you."

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business! i'm free to do whatever i want! besides watermelons don't melt steel beams!"

 

[NutterButter]

Relax Karen

Technically I think I'm a Chad.  At least the last time I checked.  

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

April called and it wants their talking points back.

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

science: "here's this one really easy thing you can do to protect not only yourselves, but those around you."

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business! i'm free to do whatever i want! besides watermelons don't melt steel beams!"

Science: here's this one easy thing you can do to protect yourself from idiots and countless other diseases.

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business and get me a big mac! I demand other people to go into a bubble to protect me!" 

See how that works? 

 

[DallasDMac]

So whats the threshold to have reactions like this in the future? 

My daughter, who did everything right, is now suffering from COVID, probably become some dip#### refused to wear a mask. I don't want her to die. So I guess my threshold is one.

 

[acarey50]

This dynamic bugs me a lot.  I wear my mask in my car for several reasons.  I manage a retail store where we practice distancing, have a strict mask policy, and have very strict sanitation protocols. Not only do we deep clean every day--we use UV sterlization several times a week.  With that said--I take care of my 80 year old diabetic mother--- and one or twice a week--I'll take her on a drive with the same car that I'm driving to and from work. I deal with dozens of clients a day at work.   Even though I'm careful--there is a chance that I could have the virus and be asymptomatic and not know.  Do I want to risk shedding the virus in the same vehicle that I use to transport my elderly mother?   People shouldn't be shamed for being "too careful" just because you might not be aware of their situation. 

jv - Just wanted to say that I appreciate you posting this. While I've never risen to the level of shaming anyone for wearing a mask while alone in their car, I certainly have had thoughts of wondering what the thought process is in what is gained by wearing a mask while alone in a car - you have definitely opened my eyes on this.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

Science: here's this one easy thing you can do to protect yourself from idiots and countless other diseases.

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business and get me a big mac! I demand other people to go into a bubble to protect me!" 

See how that works? 

You are not just protecting the unhealthy. You are protecting the healthcare system, you are protecting the health care workers, you are engaging in an act that reduces the spread of an infectious disease that once reduced to lower levels will allow gyms, restaurants, movie theaters, bars, and small businesses to prosper again. Reducing the spread also means that schools can open up again.  This is not a war between your freedom vs the vitality of the elderly and the unhealthy. This is you engaging in a simple activity that contributes to aiding all of our society get back on track. You are trying to make parallels between people who sabotage their own health vs an entire country working together to stop an infectious disease. There is no parallel. One of those situations requires a single persons will power to conquer the problem and the other requires the collective efforts of the entire community 

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

I'm not sure why an attitude about one affects the other.  I don't go around not caring about cigarette smoking because I look around and see a bunch of fatties.  "Well, they don't care about their weight so why should we care about lung disease."  Obesity isn't the only vulnerability Covid attacks.  My son is considered high risk because he has a chronic blood disorder.  People with asthma and type 1 diabetes are at greater risk too.  Is your attitude about them the same as those who are overweight?  If not, couldn't you consider that you're wearing a mask for them?  

I'm with you 100% on the health crisis in this country.  It's disgusting and we turn a blind eye to it because people don't want to be told what they should and shouldn't jam in their mouths.  We'd have much lower cases of cancer and heart disease if we changed our eating habits as a society.  I just don't see how that should affect your attitude about wearing a mask.  

No my attitude isn't the same about them, nor obese ppl. I don't want them to die. My point is simple. Overweight and obesity kills in numbers that covid isn't. Nobody really cared. If we weren't so overweight as a country (and developed world) covid wouldn't be putting up the numbers that it is. We wouldn't be having this discussion. If you want to scold the healthy 20 year olds living their life then let's also have a serious conversation about health in general because decade long behavior has made covid worse than what it otherwise would be. Instead we get "now is not the time to talk about that issue because we have this other issue that isn't as serious" run around. We can absolutely talk about both. That's what I've been saying. I've said repeatedly in here if we want to wear mask thats fine. Buts let's not ignore a serious underlying issue that is contributing to the numbers. The one hardly gets talked about. The one has a political side that tells us its not nice to comment on people's weight and now wants to play the science card about masks. The other political side says muh freedom I can eat what I want! Masks are a bandaid to covid, getting healthy is a fix for a ton of diseases. 

An over reaction is happening to the one while the other gets ignored. The side effects of that over reaction are also being ignored. How does that make sense? Does our reaction make sense as a nation that exhibits such carelessness to health in general? It doesn't. It simply feels good to put the mask on and act like we're doing something. That's why I'm indifferent to masks, we simply don't care about health collectively except for this one virus that isn't as scary as what we first thought (which is a good thing but its still worse than the flu though). I'm not anti-mask and out there yelling muh freedom.

 

[jvdesigns2002]

My daughter, who did everything right, is now suffering from COVID, probably become some dip#### refused to wear a mask. I don't want her to die. So I guess my threshold is one.

I dont want to derail the thread but I wish her a speedy recovery and best wishes. Good luck GB

 

[moleculo]

No my attitude isn't the same about them, nor obese ppl. I don't want them to die. My point is simple. Overweight and obesity kills in numbers that covid isn't. Nobody really cared. If we weren't so overweight as a country (and developed world) covid wouldn't be putting up the numbers that it is. We wouldn't be having this discussion. If you want to scold the healthy 20 year olds living their life then let's also have a serious conversation about health in general because decade long behavior has made covid worse than what it otherwise would be. Instead we get "now is not the time to talk about that issue because we have this other issue that isn't as serious" run around. We can absolutely talk about both. That's what I've been saying. I've said repeatedly in here if we want to wear mask thats fine. Buts let's not ignore a serious underlying issue that is contributing to the numbers. The one hardly gets talked about. The one has a political side that tells us its not nice to comment on people's weight and now wants to play the science card about masks. The other political side says muh freedom I can eat what I want! Masks are a bandaid to covid, getting healthy is a fix for a ton of diseases. 

An over reaction is happening to the one while the other gets ignored. The side effects of that over reaction are also being ignored. How does that make sense? Does our reaction make sense as a nation that exhibits such carelessness to health in general? It doesn't. It simply feels good to put the mask on and act like we're doing something. That's why I'm indifferent to masks, we simply don't care about health collectively except for this one virus that isn't as scary as what we first thought (which is a good thing but its still worse than the flu though). I'm not anti-mask and out there yelling muh freedom.

I wish you would stop saying we don't care about our health.  Some of us do.  I do.  I also have asthma - its never stopped me from doing anything but respiratory illnesses hit me hard.  Other than my asthma, I'm in fairly good shape.

People not wearing masks makes me slightly less healthy - that's a problem.

If you want to rant about fatties and their sugar sodas, fine.  Their obesity really doesn't affect me.  But COVID very much can.

 

[parasaurolophus]

jv - Just wanted to say that I appreciate you posting this. While I've never risen to the level of shaming anyone for wearing a mask while alone in their car, I certainly have had thoughts of wondering what the thought process is in what is gained by wearing a mask while alone in a car - you have definitely opened my eyes on this.

They also could be going from one place you have to wear one to another. Smarter to leave it on rather than take it off 

 

[jvdesigns2002]

They also could be going from one place you have to wear one to another. Smarter to leave it on rather than take it off 

Absolutely this is a possiblity. I also know a few families where they have a shared vehicle and one or two of the family members might have a job that puts them at risk (nurse, work in a retail establishment or warehouse..etc). If you have a high risk job and you have a shared vehicle--wearing a mask in the car is a safer option.  There are so many instances where it makes sense for people to wear masks in their vehicles--but I kid you not--I'd say that over 50% of the time when I do it--I can see people giving me weird looks or laughing at me for it. It doesn't bother me--but it does get old after a while.  

 

[Captain Cranks]

I feel for you people that have to keep it on when going outside.  I've gotten to the point where i hardly notice I have it on inside the stores, but as soon as I step out to the Florida heat I need to yank that thing off. 

 

[eoMMan]

Science: here's this one easy thing you can do to protect yourself from idiots and countless other diseases.

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business and get me a big mac! I demand other people to go into a bubble to protect me!" 

See how that works? 

You're really trying to compare obesity to Covid and people wearing masks?

This is a worse take than the guy comparing drunk drivers and gun ownership. 

 

[El Floppo]

An over reaction is happening to the one while the other gets ignored. The side effects of that over reaction are also being ignored. How does that make sense? Does our reaction make sense as a nation that exhibits such carelessness to health in general? It doesn't. It simply feels good to put the mask on and act like we're doing something. That's why I'm indifferent to masks, we simply don't care about health collectively except for this one virus that isn't as scary as what we first thought (which is a good thing but its still worse than the flu though). I'm not anti-mask and out there yelling muh freedom.

I wish you would stop saying we don't care about our health.  Some of us do.  I do.  I also have asthma - its never stopped me from doing anything but respiratory illnesses hit me hard.  Other than my asthma, I'm in fairly good shape.

People not wearing masks makes me slightly less healthy - that's a problem.

If you want to rant about fatties and their sugar sodas, fine.  Their obesity really doesn't affect me.  But COVID very much can.

I understand the point that obesity is a crisis here in the US, and that obesity is one of the contributing factors for covid being as deadly as it is here. ONE of the factors. I'm also asthmatic and get hit hard by respiratory illnesses. But I'm also an Ironman and marathon finisher- fitness isn't an issue for me or so many other potential covid victims out there.   

But I also can't catch obesity by living my life. If it was contagious, and masks helped prevent it spreading and shutting the country down...damn skippy I'd be wearing a mask. To protect myself as well as it's spread. But it's not. So this argument in a thread about why not to wear masks is silly at best. As a particularly virulent virus, that can kill and incapacitate so many...not sure how there can be any reaction large enough to try to promote public safety. So I don't buy the "over reaction" claim either.

And regarding this invisible obesity crisis...I think the op might be young? You have to go way back to the previous administration all those years ago when Michelle Obama spearheaded a program centered on this. Huge, international news. And the obesity problem has maintained a foothold in the media and health circles since (and prior). It's still a huge problem needing continued attention, but not one operating in the silence the op suggests. 

Bottom line- the op has said he wears masks...so all of this is about nothing, at least in terms of the thread subject.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Just got back from a local box store. Of course every employee was wearing one (get fired if they don't). I thought if these people can work 8 hours in that (remember most were hired well before any of this started), I can deal with it the few minutes I'm in the store. 

I wonder if there was this much backlash when they first started making people wear shirts and shoes inside stores.

 

[El Floppo]

Just got back from a local box store. Of course every employee was wearing one (get fired if they don't). I thought if these people can work 8 hours in that (remember most were hired well before any of this started), I can deal with it the few minutes I'm in the store. 

I wonder if there was this much backlash when they first started making people wear shirts and shoes inside stores.

No dice!

 

[AAABatteries]

i haven't heard this one. i'm not sure i understand it either

My link

 

[chet]

Apropos

 

[NutterButter]

I feel for you people that have to keep it on when going outside.  I've gotten to the point where i hardly notice I have it on inside the stores, but as soon as I step out to the Florida heat I need to yank that thing off. 

Been wearing those painters masks for months since I already had a bunch of them.   Bought a 5 back of those cotton masks from amazon.  Those things are hot.   There's no way I could wear one of those all day.  

 

[NutterButter]

Apropos

The anti-masker representative from Michigan is most apropos.

 

[AAABatteries]

No my attitude isn't the same about them, nor obese ppl. I don't want them to die. My point is simple. Overweight and obesity kills in numbers that covid isn't. Nobody really cared. If we weren't so overweight as a country (and developed world) covid wouldn't be putting up the numbers that it is. We wouldn't be having this discussion. If you want to scold the healthy 20 year olds living their life then let's also have a serious conversation about health in general because decade long behavior has made covid worse than what it otherwise would be. Instead we get "now is not the time to talk about that issue because we have this other issue that isn't as serious" run around. We can absolutely talk about both. That's what I've been saying. I've said repeatedly in here if we want to wear mask thats fine. Buts let's not ignore a serious underlying issue that is contributing to the numbers. The one hardly gets talked about. The one has a political side that tells us its not nice to comment on people's weight and now wants to play the science card about masks. The other political side says muh freedom I can eat what I want! Masks are a bandaid to covid, getting healthy is a fix for a ton of diseases. 

An over reaction is happening to the one while the other gets ignored. The side effects of that over reaction are also being ignored. How does that make sense? Does our reaction make sense as a nation that exhibits such carelessness to health in general? It doesn't. It simply feels good to put the mask on and act like we're doing something. That's why I'm indifferent to masks, we simply don't care about health collectively except for this one virus that isn't as scary as what we first thought (which is a good thing but its still worse than the flu though). I'm not anti-mask and out there yelling muh freedom.

Are you talking about the number of deaths?  If so, I agree it's definitely a factor.

As for people caring about masks vs. caring about obesity.  It's pretty simple - other people being fat most likely hasn't killed other people at the same rate that people not wearing masks has.*

*I have no data to back this up, hence the "most likely" - I'm open to hearing arguments otherwise.

 

[Galileo]

My link

Nino Vitale is a special kind of crazy.  I continuously see his social media posts being circulated as fire power in the politicization wars that are being waged.

 

[Shoot_Me_Now]

I understand the point that obesity is a crisis here in the US, and that obesity is one of the contributing factors for covid being as deadly as it is here. ONE of the factors. I'm also asthmatic and get hit hard by respiratory illnesses. But I'm also an Ironman and marathon finisher- fitness isn't an issue for me or so many other potential covid victims out there.   

But I also can't catch obesity by living my life. If it was contagious, and masks helped prevent it spreading and shutting the country down...damn skippy I'd be wearing a mask. To protect myself as well as it's spread. But it's not. So this argument in a thread about why not to wear masks is silly at best. As a particularly virulent virus, that can kill and incapacitate so many...not sure how there can be any reaction large enough to try to promote public safety. So I don't buy the "over reaction" claim either.

And regarding this invisible obesity crisis...I think the op might be young? You have to go way back to the previous administration all those years ago when Michelle Obama spearheaded a program centered on this. Huge, international news. And the obesity problem has maintained a foothold in the media and health circles since (and prior). It's still a huge problem needing continued attention, but not one operating in the silence the op suggests. 

Bottom line- the op has said he wears masks...so all of this is about nothing, at least in terms of the thread subject.

I get all of that. I truly do. 

I'm old enough to be around during Obama's program. I agreed with it.  Also old enough to remember the push back she received. Also old enough today to recognize the left's (or PC crowd) position to make it taboo to mention anybody's weight. Obesity is still on the rise. Its contributing to the deaths from this virus and hospital visits that are then used to spread fear that thousands of healthy people are dropping dead. I also recognize it isnt just overweight people. As many people in here have mentioned there are other at risk factors. 

My response to the OP was simply that we've chosen to ignore so many other health issues that I think this is a bit of a mismatch of reaction. Im not comparing car accidents or mosquito deaths here. The flu kils thousands a year with a vaccine and its barely talked about. That's fine and all but then what is the threshold that we start freaking out? What moves that needle? 3x? 5x? 10x? We will ever go back to accepting virus deaths? If not, will we also actually tackle other prevantable deaths? I think we'll largely ignore all that as soon as we get used to covid even if it returns annually and kills 5x the flu. 

I went out to lunch the other day and due to mask orders had to wear a mask for the 10 seconds I walked into the restaurant and out to the patio to my table where I could then take it off. Mind you the whole one wall of the restaurant is open so its not even an enclosed space. Is that reaction/order actually reasonable? Or just a show of hey we're doing something? My take is simply that reaction doesnt line up with what we normally accept as a society. 

I won't clog this thread up anymore because I largely agree with you all but I just think the fear meter needs dialed back a bit compared to other things. Or the fear meter on those needs ratcheted up to match the covid fear. 

 

[Apple Jack]

Science: here's this one easy thing you can do to protect yourself from idiots and countless other diseases.

Americans: "keep your nose out of my business and get me a big mac! I demand other people to go into a bubble to protect me!" 

See how that works? 

No.

 

[Apple Jack]

I won't clog this thread up anymore because I largely agree with you all but I just think the fear meter needs dialed back a bit compared to other things. Or the fear meter on those needs ratcheted up to match the covid fear. 

Gonna need to see the R0 on these "other things"

 

[The Commish]

I think it's time for the anti-maskers to put their money where their mask should be.  Time to start boycotting and staying the hell away from any of the stores forcing them to wear masks in their establishment.  Seriously...how do you support organizations trying to take away your "freedom" and "rights" with your hard earned dollars?!?!  Enough is enough...time to act.  Boycott them all !!!!!!!

 

[El Floppo]

I get all of that. I truly do. 

I'm old enough to be around during Obama's program. I agreed with it.  Also old enough to remember the push back she received. Also old enough today to recognize the left's (or PC crowd) position to make it taboo to mention anybody's weight. Obesity is still on the rise. Its contributing to the deaths from this virus and hospital visits that are then used to spread fear that thousands of healthy people are dropping dead. I also recognize it isnt just overweight people. As many people in here have mentioned there are other at risk factors. 

My response to the OP was simply that we've chosen to ignore so many other health issues that I think this is a bit of a mismatch of reaction. Im not comparing car accidents or mosquito deaths here. The flu kils thousands a year with a vaccine and its barely talked about. That's fine and all but then what is the threshold that we start freaking out? What moves that needle? 3x? 5x? 10x? We will ever go back to accepting virus deaths? If not, will we also actually tackle other prevantable deaths? I think we'll largely ignore all that as soon as we get used to covid even if it returns annually and kills 5x the flu. 

I went out to lunch the other day and due to mask orders had to wear a mask for the 10 seconds I walked into the restaurant and out to the patio to my table where I could then take it off. Mind you the whole one wall of the restaurant is open so its not even an enclosed space. Is that reaction/order actually reasonable? Or just a show of hey we're doing something? My take is simply that reaction doesnt line up with what we normally accept as a society. 

I won't clog this thread up anymore because I largely agree with you all but I just think the fear meter needs dialed back a bit compared to other things. Or the fear meter on those needs ratcheted up to match the covid fear. 

It's the virility of spread, general understanding, morbidity and as of yet limits of treating of this thing that's different, and makes comparing to the yearly flu or anything short of the Spanish Flu not apt. This isn't some normal thing that needs addessing- it's distinctly historic emergency levels based purely on the numbers, not media or left/right response...numbers that have been achieved even after trying to slow it down, albeit, in a piecemeal and direction-less way in the US. If the people in our country took all the proper steps, including wearing masks where needed, we'd be able to tackle this the way other countries have... I have no doubt. And then we could move on to solving other issues.

In regards to ignoring the other deadly health issues in the US. I really don't think they're ignored as much as you're saying...they're just not at historic/emergency levels to prompt that kind of reaction.

And maybe once this is resolved somehow, the country and world will be more open to fixing other health issues. I'm already rethinking my own response to the yearly flu and might start using masks when/where warranted (public transportation, especially) vs completely ignoring it prior to covid. Otherwise, I don't think my life will change at all.

I wonder about obesity though- were having this much problem getting people just to wear masks and social distance to help society at large. I can't fathom how we get those same people, or even the more socially conscious to do something about other people eating themselves to death- something that has no immediate bearing on anybody else's lives. 

 

[Hov34]

Just got back from a local box store. Of course every employee was wearing one (get fired if they don't). I thought if these people can work 8 hours in that (remember most were hired well before any of this started), I can deal with it the few minutes I'm in the store. 

I wonder if there was this much backlash when they first started making people wear shirts and shoes inside stores.

My Link

 

[parasaurolophus]

And regarding this invisible obesity crisis...I think the op might be young? You have to go way back to the previous administration all those years ago when Michelle Obama spearheaded a program centered on this. Huge, international news. And the obesity problem has maintained a foothold in the media and health circles since (and prior). It's still a huge problem needing continued attention, but not one operating in the silence the op suggests. 

Bottom line- the op has said he wears masks...so all of this is about nothing, at least in terms of the thread subject.

His issue seemed to me to be with the criticism. Questioning a heavy set person that you see eating a big mac and trying to teach them about the benefits of healthy eating is fat shaming.

Questioning and antimasker is now seen as virtuous(by many). 

Eta:also he said he wears them where required. 

 

[Apple Jack]

I think it's time for the anti-maskers to put their money where their mask should be.  Time to start boycotting and staying the hell away from any of the stores forcing them to wear masks in their establishment.  Seriously...how do you support organizations trying to take away your "freedom" and "rights" with your hard earned dollars?!?!  Enough is enough...time to act.  Boycott them all !!!!!!!

If nobody sees or hears you being a victim, what's the point?

 

[[icon]]

Sweet Anti-Masker sign at a business   

Good stuff 

 

[snellman]

I think it's time for the anti-maskers to put their money where their mask should be.  Time to start boycotting and staying the hell away from any of the stores forcing them to wear masks in their establishment.  Seriously...how do you support organizations trying to take away your "freedom" and "rights" with your hard earned dollars?!?!  Enough is enough...time to act.  Boycott them all !!!!!!!

Don't worry, I will not be going to the store if they require a mask.  I will also not be getting a vaccine when it becomes available and if they require a proof of a vaccine to go into a place, I will not be patronizing that place either.  

 

[The Commish]

Don't worry, I will not be going to the store if they require a mask.  I will also not be getting a vaccine when it becomes available and if they require a proof of a vaccine to go into a place, I will not be patronizing that place either.  

I will not be taking a vaccine that is pushed through in a matter of months either....common ground!

 

[El Floppo]

Don't worry, I will not be going to the store if they require a mask.  I will also not be getting a vaccine when it becomes available and if they require a proof of a vaccine to go into a place, I will not be patronizing that place either.  

Apologies if you've already said it, but if you're saying you won't wear a mask- why not?

 

[snellman]

I will not be taking a vaccine that is pushed through in a matter of months either....common ground!

I don't want it to come across that I am a complete ###, but I live in an area of the country that is not very densely populated and the county I live and work in has had very few cases.  I have been going to work every day since this started except for a week when my dealership closed down to prepare for the new "normal".  I don't understand how they are making this whole thing a one size fits all.

 

[snellman]

Apologies if you've already said it, but if you're saying you won't wear a mask- why not?

Sorry, just posted after your reply.  Has a lot to do with the area I live and work in.  My family does its part to limit travel. 

 

[El Floppo]

Sorry, just posted after your reply.  Has a lot to do with the area I live and work in.  My family does its part to limit travel. 

Thanks. Yeah...there are still lots of areas in the US relatively or completely unaffected afaik. Reacting in the same way I do in NYC doesn't make sense for now.

If you noticed covid creep nearing your area, would you change your mind? Or are you generally against the idea of wearing a mask?

 

[NutterButter]

I will not be taking a vaccine that is pushed through in a matter of months either....common ground!

I was going to start a separate thread to see what others thought.  I'm all for doing things for the common good, but putting something in my body that has unknown consequences and has been rushed through in  like a fourth of the time it normally takes is where I think I'm drawing the line.   Also considering the credibility of our government is in the toilet right now I don't think I can trust what they're going to tell us regarding something of this magnitude.  

 

[parasaurolophus]

putting something in my body that has unknown consequences and has been rushed through in  like a fourth of the time it normally takes is where I think I'm drawing the line. 

I knew my wife had an alias in here. 

 

[The Commish]

I was going to start a separate thread to see what others thought.  I'm all for doing things for the common good, but putting something in my body that has unknown consequences and has been rushed through in  like a fourth of the time it normally takes is where I think I'm drawing the line.   Also considering the credibility of our government is in the toilet right now I don't think I can trust what they're going to tell us regarding something of this magnitude.  

I have all the faith in the world in our scientists.  I don't trust our pharmaceutical complex at all....not even a little bit.  Throw on top of that, our federal government is supposed to be their oversight and yeah, ain't gonna do it.

 

[Shutout]

Absolutely this is a possiblity. I also know a few families where they have a shared vehicle and one or two of the family members might have a job that puts them at risk (nurse, work in a retail establishment or warehouse..etc). If you have a high risk job and you have a shared vehicle--wearing a mask in the car is a safer option.  There are so many instances where it makes sense for people to wear masks in their vehicles--but I kid you not--I'd say that over 50% of the time when I do it--I can see people giving me weird looks or laughing at me for it. It doesn't bother me--but it does get old after a while.  

Good point.  I'll add my own fwiw

I wear one in my car even though I transport no one and I don't have the responsibility to care for an elderly parents or high risk person.

The reason is a few things- 

1. I tend to pull up to drive throughs and encounter people working the drive throughs that don't wear theirs properly.  So, I'm protecting myself by pulling into a speaker area to place an order for make a purchase where someone Wes just in or ocurrently is that isn't protecting themselves by covering.

2. I do it as a subtle way to say to others " I care about you".  If I pull up to a drive through and I am covered, maybe they think "that guy is wearing a mask and thats one less person I have to worry about catching it from as I work my job". 

It would be hypocritical of me to say I think we should all wear a mask and then not wear one or to gripe about how I want theaters and gyms to be open, yet I run off to downtown Gatlinburg or somewhere and don't practice social distancing or masks.  People seem to be screaming for opening up but they won't put in the work on the front end to get the numbers down so we can.  

 

[Shutout]

I was going to start a separate thread to see what others thought.  I'm all for doing things for the common good, but putting something in my body that has unknown consequences and has been rushed through in  like a fourth of the time it normally takes is where I think I'm drawing the line.   Also considering the credibility of our government is in the toilet right now I don't think I can trust what they're going to tell us regarding something of this magnitude.  

I understand the pssimism but don't let that lead you to assume that a vaccine that comes quickly is not the right answer.  Think if it like World War 2 when the USA had something like the 17th largest standing army,pre-war and the economy for production of wartime materials was lacking.  We did what we did in a remarkable fashion because if necessity because we are a resilient, can-do people.  That's where we are now.  

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Even a regular surgical mask is about 80% effective at filtering particles the average size of coronavirus

Can we stop with the "it's really not effective" talk, please?

Is it 100% effective. No.

Is it the simplest and most effective way to stop the spread of the disease when we can't isolate ourselves? Yes.

 

[Franknbeans]

No mask, no service would help clear up alot of the problems we are having