Any Aquarium guys? (1 Viewer)

[rsanford]

Looking to get my first fish tank (freshwater) this week. My 4 year old son has been asking to spend his November birthday money on fish. After some reading here and other places, we told him a 10 gallon tank would not be a good first home (harder to keep stable), so we would wait and watch for a deal on a bigger tank. I think we finally found that deal on an in-use 50 gallon tank with 5 goldfish. Tank also includes stand, hanging filter, bubbling rock, and bottom gravel. I'll be taking a look at it this week.

I'm looking for advice on:

1. When I look at it, is there anything that should cause me to walk away from the deal?

2. Since there's fish living in it already, what does that mean in regards to cycling it? It will need to be drained for transportation if that makes a difference.

3. We live in Minnesota, and have house thermostats that let the house get down to 62F at night, and heat to 69F during the day. In summer we let our house get up to 80F. How does that impact our decision on which fish to stock, or if we need to invest in a heater?

4. Besides the goldfish, what are other good fish to start out with, for kids? I'm thinking a decent sized schooling group (6-9 zebra danios?) and some apple snails would be fun for the kids. Any other suggestions?

5. The tank I'm looking at is a tall one, and I'm worried about the top looking empty. Any fish or decor advice to eliminate that? I think lilly pads and fish that hang under them would be cool, but I don't want to start with live plants, and have no idea which fish might enjoy fake lilly pads if I can find them.

 

[TheFanatic]

Looking to get my first fish tank (freshwater) this week. My 4 year old son has been asking to spend his November birthday money on fish. After some reading here and other places, we told him a 10 gallon tank would not be a good first home (harder to keep stable), so we would wait and watch for a deal on a bigger tank.

Excellent decision. 10 gallons are pretty useless outside of breeding tanks for a pair of small fish with a very large tank to move the fry after they are hatched/born.

I think we finally found that deal on an in-use 50 gallon tank with 5 goldfish. Tank also includes stand, hanging filter, bubbling rock, and bottom gravel. I'll be taking a look at it this week.1. When I look at it, is there anything that should cause me to walk away from the deal?

Ask how old the tank is. Check underneath the rim around to top to see if there is any extra silicon added to seal it. Not really a deal breaker as one of my tanks has this and it is easily fixed, but it may be indicative of more leaks to come. Look for scratches. Glass tanks can't have scratches buffed out in any way. Don't be afraid of water spots on the tank. That can be pretty easily remedied as well.

2. Since there's fish living in it already, what does that mean in regards to cycling it? It will need to be drained for transportation if that makes a difference.

No, the tank does not need cycling but you need to retain as much water as possible. Half at a minimum. Go buy 5 gallon plastic gas cans at the local HW store. Don't try to move the water in buckets. Go with gas cans because you can put a cap on the top. The gas cans are all of $6. And any time you move the tank you will need them.30 gallons of cycled water and 20 of new water with the gravel and the filter set up and you won't need to cycle. Do not clean the filter right before moving it. That thing is LOADED with good bacteria (the stuff you need for a cycled tank). Clean the filter about 2 weeks after you get it set up. Make sure to mention this to whomever you are buying it from so they don't "do you a favor" by doing this.

3. We live in Minnesota, and have house thermostats that let the house get down to 62F at night, and heat to 69F during the day. In summer we let our house get up to 80F. How does that impact our decision on which fish to stock, or if we need to invest in a heater?

Goldfish are definitely out for you. They like the colder temps but they will roast at 80 degrees. You want to go with tropicals. You can always raise the temp pretty cheap but chillers are very expensive as only cold water reef systems need them and that is a very small portion of the hobby. In the winter the heaters will chug along, in the summer they will barely be used....Take the gold fish to a petstore and get some store credit...

4. Besides the goldfish, what are other good fish to start out with, for kids? I'm thinking a decent sized schooling group (6-9 zebra danios?) and some apple snails would be fun for the kids. Any other suggestions?

Goldfish are the worst fish to start out with. They are a huge mess. As for good fish to start out with, make sure you do you research on what is compatible and how big things get. A dozen dime size angels seems like a great idea, but when they are the size of a baseball (and from top fin to bottom are 14 inches tall) they will overcrowd a tank. NEVER take a tank to it's stocking limits. All you are asking for is work and misery. Constant water changes will be required to keep the water conditions up and that will cause the fish to grow even more requiring even more water changes. To start, try to keep fish from the same regions. Angels and tetras. Or Loaches and Characins. Dwarf Cichlids and tetras. That will make it easier to keep the water conditions optimum for all. If you want to go with fish from different regions, keep the conditions as neutral as possible. I have an African Cichlid tank with Peacocks and Haps. I also have some clown loaches (Asia, I beleive), and plecos (S/C. America) and some pretty rare and expensive plecos at that (green phantom, false zebra, etc). In that tank I don't do anything to the tap water but remove the chlorine. Same with my other two tanks. The only thing I add to the tank is ferts for the plants...

5. The tank I'm looking at is a tall one, and I'm worried about the top looking empty. Any fish or decor advice to eliminate that? I think lilly pads and fish that hang under them would be cool, but I don't want to start with live plants, and have no idea which fish might enjoy fake lilly pads if I can find them.

Lilly pads are tough for aquariums. The real ones grow up and then are too close to the light at the top and can burn up. Fake lilly pads are even harder as I don't think they make them (you would have to know the exact depth of the tank with gravel). I want to say banana plants send up small lilly pads that might work. While I am a live plant guy, there is a way to do fake plants that don't look so fake. Go to the petstore (better yet do it online) and buy plants of the same type. Buy two each of 3 different sizes of the exact same type of plant. Clump all 6 together and it will look pretty realistic, particularly when a little algae grows on the leaves. Avoid fake spiky plants. They never look real. As for fish that swim in the upper reaches? Hatchets, Gouramis, Angels, all swim near the top. Do the research on what you want and then find compatible top swimmers. If you go with hatchets you may need a new hood as even the tiniest of gaps will allow them to jump out when spooked. And if this person has had the tank for a while he has probably made some gaps in the back for various pieced of equipment...

 

[rsanford]

TheFanatic, thanks for the input.

On transporting, I already have 6-8 5 gallon pails around, and I'd rather not buy gas cans. What if I lined the pails with plastic bags, and tied off the tops so they don't splash?

On fish selection, I appreciate the comment on the tank being harder to manage if it is at its stocking limit. I hadn't accounted for that, and will take that to heart. Angels seem like a good top dweller, but I've run into a lot of comments online about them attacking/eating smaller tetras. If we get a couple angels, is there another species that would do well with them, but small enough to get a decent sized 8+ school going? What I'm envisioning is 1-2 species of 3-6" fish, no more than 4 total, 1 species of 1" schooling fish, as many as practical, with some active snails thrown in. Optimally, there would be fish activity at all levels of the tank, and each species would have distinct personalities.

 

[TLEF316]

if you buy small angels and put them with adult tetras, there's a chance they wont see them as food when they grow up. If you get adult angels, they'll probably eat the smaller fish (especially neons)

I have a school of hatchets. I like them, but they arent quite active enough. Cool looking fish, but their behavior just isnt that interesting.

Rummy nose tetras are a teriffic fish. Best decision i made with my tank. They are very colorful and school very tightly.

I'd look at some of the smaller species of rainbow fish if i were you. I have bosemani's, but a school of them might be a tad much for a 55. Try the dwarf neon rainbows. They are beautiful and very active.

 

[TLEF316]

also...i would NOT move the water in buckets. even moving a tank 20 feet is a major PITA. I'd spare no reasonable expense moving one by car. You'll want it to be as streamlined as possible. Just get the gas can.

 

[TheFanatic]

TheFanatic, thanks for the input.On transporting, I already have 6-8 5 gallon pails around, and I'd rather not buy gas cans. What if I lined the pails with plastic bags, and tied off the tops so they don't splash?

This would work in theory. One problem. Some trash bags are toxic to fish. Some are not. I don't know anymore. Contact your local pet store (non chain pet store) and ask. Coolers work as well, but still tend to splash a bit. When done, just rinse out the coolers. If my friends and family had any idea how many fish were transported in the coolers full of beer and ice for BBQ's I doubt they would drink much beer!?!?! Nobody has gotten sick yet!!

On fish selection, I appreciate the comment on the tank being harder to manage if it is at its stocking limit. I hadn't accounted for that, and will take that to heart.

This is the biggest rookie mistake. Well maybe not. One of three. First mistake: buying fish without researching. That 2 inch Oscar looks like it would have plenty of room in a 20 gallon. 2 months later that Oscar is 7 inches. Or buying incompatible fish. I am guilty of both of these. I once put in a pretty blue african cichlid in with my two oscars and my Clown Knife in my 20 gallon long. Wrong on so many levels. That little bastage chased my pleco int a wine carafe I had in the tank for decoration that he couldn't get out of. Beat the crap out of the oscars but left the CK alone. I still own that CK. He's 20 years old!?!? Obviously I got some bigger tanks...Second mistake: not doing diligent water changes. This is the equivalent of buying a car and never doing an oil change. Except the impending disaster won't take a couple of years to happen. I killed thousands of fish before I figured this out. Third mistake: Overstocking. People want immediate gratification. They want a tank that is just chock full of color and activity from day one. So they overstock. They say they are going to get a bigger tank. In the end they kill fish after fish, get discouraged and give up.

Angels seem like a good top dweller, but I've run into a lot of comments online about them attacking/eating smaller tetras. If we get a couple angels, is there another species that would do well with them, but small enough to get a decent sized 8+ school going?

You are correct, but as TLEF said, if they are raised around small fish like that they are not likely to eat them. I trained an oscar not to eat goldfish. Kept him with the CK that only at GF. From the time he was too big to fit in the CK's mouth I put him in with the CK and he was always around the goldfish. When he was a foot long he didn't eat them. Gouramis are a very nice top dwelling fish that are very passive. And some have some incredible color. Trichogaster Leeri (pearl Gourami) is probably the most impressive. Some of the new dwarf varieties are really sweet like the flame and blue.Also, not all tetras are tiny like say neon tetras. Rummy nose, particularly porthole rummy's, emperor, lemon, black neon, serpae, etc would all suffice even if the Angel was a piscivore.

What I'm envisioning is 1-2 species of 3-6" fish, no more than 4 total, 1 species of 1" schooling fish, as many as practical, with some active snails thrown in. Optimally, there would be fish activity at all levels of the tank, and each species would have distinct personalities.

One thing you can overstock on is a couple schools of tetras. A school of 10 Serpaes, 10 rummies, 4-5 angels, couple dwarf gouramis, a couple clown loaches, 5-6 cory cats and a couple bristlenose will provide immediate color and activity and will not over crowd once they are full grown. You may have to cut back on an angel or two, particularly if a couple pair off, but by then they will be good size...

 

[TLEF316]

careful with the dwarf gouramis. Everything i've read says that they are VERY prone to disease.

Regarding clown loaches. I love the 4 that i have, but they really limit the options in a tank. (especially a 55, which is at the absolute low end of the scale for them). They take up a lot of the stocking room due to their size and if you get a shy group, you wont see them much. Mine hide in the rocks ALOT (more so since i moved the tank) I also fear for my cory cats when the clowns go crashing around during feeding time.

Fish i would definitly recomend.....

- Rummy nose tetras

- cardinal tetras (not a great activity level, but they look striking when mixed with the RN's)

- Gold Rams/blue rams. I couldnt keep the blues alive, but they are gorgeous

- apistos- Very cool fish. Lots of personality. expensive though

- corydoras- the only ones i couldnt keep alive were pandas. My sterbai and skunk corys are thriving (although not breeding for some reason)

- Rainbow fish- Very active. Mildly agressive towards eachother, but they leave others alone

 

[eoMMan]

I got a 1.5 gallon aquarium for Christmas.....What one kind of fish or fishes, , will do best in an aquarium this small?I was thinking about maybe a Kissing Guarami and hopefully one more hardy fish.Thoughts?Stick to boring Goldfish?

I ended up getting a male blue Betta fish. He seems happy in this aquarium.

 

[TheFanatic]

I got a 1.5 gallon aquarium for Christmas.....

What one kind of fish or fishes, , will do best in an aquarium this small?

I was thinking about maybe a Kissing Guarami and hopefully one more hardy fish.

Thoughts?

Stick to boring Goldfish?

I ended up getting a male blue Betta fish. He seems happy in this aquarium cell.

Fixed...

 

[eoMMan]

I got a 1.5 gallon aquarium for Christmas.....

What one kind of fish or fishes, , will do best in an aquarium this small?

I was thinking about maybe a Kissing Guarami and hopefully one more hardy fish.

Thoughts?

Stick to boring Goldfish?

I ended up getting a male blue Betta fish. He seems happy in this aquarium cell.

Fixed...

Hey! At least it's bigger than what most people keep them in.

 

[kbreaker]

I got a 1.5 gallon aquarium for Christmas.....

What one kind of fish or fishes, , will do best in an aquarium this small?

I was thinking about maybe a Kissing Guarami and hopefully one more hardy fish.

Thoughts?

Stick to boring Goldfish?

I ended up getting a male blue Betta fish. He seems happy in this aquarium cell.

Fixed...

In nature, they are living in shallow puddles half the year.

 

[rsanford]

also...i would NOT move the water in buckets. even moving a tank 20 feet is a major PITA. I'd spare no reasonable expense moving one by car. You'll want it to be as streamlined as possible. Just get the gas can.

From a PITA standpoint, I'm not sure how a bunch of gas cans is much different than a bunch of buckets. I actually like the cooler idea the best, though I think I'll ask the pet store for plastic bag suggestions. What do they put their bigger fish in when they sell them?

 

[rsanford]

On fish selection: I checked out petsmart and petco over lunch. One had more selection than I expected, about 70 tanks, with only 1 species per tank. I really liked how tightly most of the barbs schooled, especially the tigers, but from what I'm reading, most barbs don't make good tank mates due to nipping. None of the tetras were really schooling. I'm a bit apprehensive about the cichlids, not enough confidence for those yet.

 

[TLEF316]

also...i would NOT move the water in buckets. even moving a tank 20 feet is a major PITA. I'd spare no reasonable expense moving one by car. You'll want it to be as streamlined as possible. Just get the gas can.

From a PITA standpoint, I'm not sure how a bunch of gas cans is much different than a bunch of buckets. I actually like the cooler idea the best, though I think I'll ask the pet store for plastic bag suggestions. What do they put their bigger fish in when they sell them?

as someone who does water changes with buckets every week, trust me...buckets are a bad move(unless the have lids). When i move my tank into my new place, i will be using gas cans for the water. (other than the bags the fish will be in)

 

[TLEF316]

On fish selection: I checked out petsmart and petco over lunch. One had more selection than I expected, about 70 tanks, with only 1 species per tank. I really liked how tightly most of the barbs schooled, especially the tigers, but from what I'm reading, most barbs don't make good tank mates due to nipping. None of the tetras were really schooling. I'm a bit apprehensive about the cichlids, not enough confidence for those yet.

try to find a good local fish store. Peto/petsmart run all their tanks on a shared filter system. As a result, if one tank gets a disease (which happens all the time in these places) all the tanks are exposed. I worked at a petco back in HS(~8 years ago). I wouldnt buy fish there.

 

[TheFanatic]

I got a 1.5 gallon aquarium for Christmas.....

What one kind of fish or fishes, , will do best in an aquarium this small?

I was thinking about maybe a Kissing Guarami and hopefully one more hardy fish.

Thoughts?

Stick to boring Goldfish?

I ended up getting a male blue Betta fish. He seems happy in this aquarium cell.

Fixed...

In nature, they are living in shallow puddles half the year.

Just bustin balls...

 

[TheFanatic]

Took the liberty of combining posts...

From a PITA standpoint, I'm not sure how a bunch of gas cans is much different than a bunch of buckets. I actually like the cooler idea the best, though I think I'll ask the pet store for plastic bag suggestions. What do they put their bigger fish in when they sell them?

You simply can't drive around with an open bucket full of water. It will be a nasty mess in your car. As for large fish, those bags that fish come in come in different sizes. Some quite large.

On fish selection: I checked out petsmart and petco over lunch. One had more selection than I expected, about 70 tanks, with only 1 species per tank. I really liked how tightly most of the barbs schooled, especially the tigers, but from what I'm reading, most barbs don't make good tank mates due to nipping. None of the tetras were really schooling. I'm a bit apprehensive about the cichlids, not enough confidence for those yet.

I avoid pestmart and pestco as much as possible. Barbs only nip each other unless they don't have any other to nip. I kept a school of 6 Tiger Barbs with very large and showy angels. Never had a nipping problem. If I had only 1 in there I would;ve had a nipping problem. And they do school nicely together and are mid to upper tier swimmers.As for Chichlids, well, there is a lot to know there. Going S./C. American or African. The former tend to get quite large unless you stay in the dwarf families (Blue or Gold Ram's, Apistogrammas, etc) and do well with tetras, cories, plegos. Many of the most colorful Africans don't get all that big and a nice school of them could be kept in that 50 gallon with say some Synondontis cats, loaches, and tiger barbs....

 

[TLEF316]

i'd love to do a long, shallow tank with several distinct territories and a large group of dwarf cichlids. get like 12-20 juvie blue rams (if i could ever learn to keep them alive) and let them sort out teritories/mates. i think it would be awesome to watch.

My Gold Ram looks awesome now. He's gotten huge. I may try to find a mate for him, but the gold rams are really dificult to sex. if i got another male, he'd just kill it.

Got a new camera for christmas. i may try to post a few pics this week. I had to re-arrange the tank when i moved it, but its looking alright.

 

[Infiniti]

Read through the majority of this thread already (LONG but great info from Fanatic and others) and I have a few questions:

I'm looking to start up a freshwater tank, was looking at a 40-50 gallon, mostly because I'm bored and I've always enjoyed the hobby - had a 10 and 20 gallon tank in college.

First off, I love the substrate TLEF used in his tank - what is that? I'm sick of gravel and love the look of sand, is this doable in a freshwater set up? I had always remembered hearing that sand wasn't good because fish would choke on it and die

Second - filters... Fanatic - you have been recommending the Fluval series? Are these considered the best? What about underground filters? Do they still make these? Worth the trouble of having both?

Third - I saw TLEF make mention of algae issues earlier and how live plants keep the issue under control? I know in my other tanks I was having an issue with algae even though I would clean the tanks and make water changes quite a bit. How do you guys combat algae issues?

Thats it for now... thanks for taking the time! Great thread!

 

[TLEF316]

Read through the majority of this thread already (LONG but great info from Fanatic and others) and I have a few questions:I'm looking to start up a freshwater tank, was looking at a 40-50 gallon, mostly because I'm bored and I've always enjoyed the hobby - had a 10 and 20 gallon tank in college.First off, I love the substrate TLEF used in his tank - what is that? I'm sick of gravel and love the look of sand, is this doable in a freshwater set up? I had always remembered hearing that sand wasn't good because fish would choke on it and die Second - filters... Fanatic - you have been recommending the Fluval series? Are these considered the best? What about underground filters? Do they still make these? Worth the trouble of having both?Third - I saw TLEF make mention of algae issues earlier and how live plants keep the issue under control? I know in my other tanks I was having an issue with algae even though I would clean the tanks and make water changes quite a bit. How do you guys combat algae issues?Thats it for now... thanks for taking the time! Great thread!

my substrate is just plain ordinary play sand. bought a few 50 lb bags from home depot. Washed the hell out of it in a few buckets (to get out the dust and other impurities) and put it in. Pros- ok for plants (it doesn't have the nutrients of the more advanced planted tank substrates, but everything roots well in it)bottom dwellers love it (doesn't damage their barbels)easy to clean (food and poop just sit on top, so i just vacuum it up)Cons-tends to compact at times. I run my fingers through the unplanted sections to loosen it up every few weekslooks very dirty if you don't stay up on tank maintenanceclouds the water badly if you disturb it. as for filters, id definitely go for a canister if its in the budget. I switched to an Eheim 2217 a few months ago and it has done wonders for water clarity and circulation. Plus, i don't have to deal with the filter outflow beating down the taller plants.

 

[TLEF316]

as for the algae.....

every tank is gonna have a diatom (brown algae) issue when you first get it going. Just the nature of the beast until things get going. Its easy enough to remove though.

I have issues with green dust algae (I just let it run its course) and BBA (awful stuff that wont be fixed until i start injecting Co2. luckily its still pretty contained in a few out of sight areas). Live plants help combat algae because they use the same nutrients as algae does (and usually do so more efficiently) Real plants are not that tough. Its a lot of trial and error (there are certain plants that just wont grow in my tank no matter how easy people say they are) I highly recommend you do it right away if you are planning on doing them. Just stick to low light plants (anubias, crypts, green swords, some valis, java moss, java ferns, ect) get decent lighting and start on a very basic fert regiment. The fish really appreciate it and it really isn't that difficult. I wish i had done it from the beginning. Fake plants were more trouble than they were worth.

 

[TheFanatic]

Read through the majority of this thread already (LONG but great info from Fanatic and others) and I have a few questions:I'm looking to start up a freshwater tank, was looking at a 40-50 gallon, mostly because I'm bored and I've always enjoyed the hobby - had a 10 and 20 gallon tank in college.First off, I love the substrate TLEF used in his tank - what is that? I'm sick of gravel and love the look of sand, is this doable in a freshwater set up? I had always remembered hearing that sand wasn't good because fish would choke on it and die

Yes, you can do sand in fresh water setups. I just outfitted my 55 gallon with 40 pounds of black sand with a black background. Going very zen here with fancy goldfish. These are specifically for my 8 month old. Very colorful, don't hid, stand out like a neon sign against the black background and sand.

Second - filters... Fanatic - you have been recommending the Fluval series? Are these considered the best? What about underground filters? Do they still make these? Worth the trouble of having both?

Cannot do undergravel filters with sand. That being said, just buy a canister. And I've been using Fylstar's for over a year now. Sold my Fluval 304. I hear the new models are better. The fluvals filtered well, but cleaning them was a huge PITA.

Third - I saw TLEF make mention of algae issues earlier and how live plants keep the issue under control? I know in my other tanks I was having an issue with algae even though I would clean the tanks and make water changes quite a bit. How do you guys combat algae issues?

Live plants starve algae of the nutrients they need. That's one way of eliminating algae. Another way is lots of water changes, at least done regularly, this should not be a problem. Also a phosphate remover in your filter will go a long way to kill algae. Actual algae eaters. Most plecos don't eat a lot of algae. They like solid food, wood and detritus more. Otocinclus cats, farlowellas and bristle nose cats are serious algae eaters...

 

[TheFanatic]

as for the algae.....

every tank is gonna have a diatom (brown algae) issue when you first get it going. Just the nature of the beast until things get going. Its easy enough to remove though.

I have issues with green dust algae (I just let it run its course) and BBA (awful stuff that wont be fixed until i start injecting Co2. luckily its still pretty contained in a few out of sight areas). Live plants help combat algae because they use the same nutrients as algae does (and usually do so more efficiently) Real plants are not that tough. Its a lot of trial and error (there are certain plants that just wont grow in my tank no matter how easy people say they are) I highly recommend you do it right away if you are planning on doing them. Just stick to low light plants (anubias, crypts, green swords, some valis, java moss, java ferns, ect) get decent lighting and start on a very basic fert regiment. The fish really appreciate it and it really isn't that difficult. I wish i had done it from the beginning. Fake plants were more trouble than they were worth.

Phosphate remover in your filter and Siamese algae eaters will resolve this in a few weeks. Make sure they are Siamese algae eaters and no the Chinese. The Chinese don't eat the BBA and thy tend to get carnivorous when they get bigger and feast on fins of slower moving fish...And excellent list of low light, low maintenance plants. You pretty much list everything I have in my tanks except Java Moss. Been there, done that....

 

[Infiniti]

TLEF and Fanatic

and start on a very basic fert regiment.

When you get a chance, can you walk me through this? Are we talking an inch of dirt below the sand?

 

[TLEF316]

everything i've read about BBA says that inconsistent C02 is the issue. In fact, people have successfully treated it with flourish Excel (either spot treatments or overdoses). I don't want to do that. I was planning on going with pressurized Co2 anyway.

i don't have room for SAE's at this point. Plus, My shark would go after them.

 

[Infiniti]

Yes, you can do sand in fresh water setups. I just outfitted my 55 gallon with 40 pounds of black sand with a black background. Going very zen here with fancy goldfish. These are specifically for my 8 month old. Very colorful, don't hid, stand out like a neon sign against the black background and sand.

Actually close to what I'm going for - either black sand or very white sand. I definitely the fish to stick out and I love the way the sand looks as opposed to gravel. Are you using the Tahitian Moon Black Sand? Do you have any ?

 

[TLEF316]

TLEF and Fanatic

and start on a very basic fert regiment.

When you get a chance, can you walk me through this? Are we talking an inch of dirt below the sand?

oh no. nothing like that (although using a nutrient enriched substrate is an option if you want to go high-tech, which i would not recommend for a beginner)My fert regiment consists of the following(2 times a week)....3 cap fulls of Kent freshwater plant fertilizer 2 cap fulls of Kent Plant growth plus2 cap fulls of flourish potassium (my sunset hygro gets holey otherwise)flourish root tabs underneath the heavy root feeders (swords, crypts and larger vals) replaced every 2 months or so. and don't bow down to me. I'd have a goldfish bowl if it were for Fanatic (and a few others) and their outstanding guidance.Some other good sites....plantedtank.netfishforums.nettons of good info and some very knowledgeable posters. The guys at planted tank are a bit more knowledgeable, but fishforums gets more traffic and covers a wider range of subjects.

 

[rsanford]

I picked up a 55 gallon tank with stand, filter, heater, gravel, ornaments, etc. off craigs list last Sunday. Also included was 1 oto cat, 4 glass cats and 4 large (7") red tail tinfoil barbs. As suggested, I brought 3 coolers and was able to transport and preserve about 1/2 the tank water with filter media. I lost 1 of the glass cats the first night, but other than that, things seem very stable. Assuming things remain stable for another week (2 water changes), I'll take the boys to a local fish store and let them pick out some new tank mates.

My oldest wants to get some frogs. Any reason to think the barbs may pick them off? I'm interested in adding an American Flag Fish. I'm not sure what my youngest may desire.

 

[rsanford]

Here's the tank shortly after the first setup. I've removed the un-used under gravel filter plates and tubes and re-arranged things since then to encourage the barbs to stay away from the glass cats, as they would hide inside the top of that fake tree root. That didn't seem to help much, but after introducing the BN Pleco, the glass cats have stopped hiding for the most part.

My Tank

Took the whole family to the local fish store. The boys came home with a bristle-nose pleco. My wife loved the brightly colored Cichlids at the store, so now she's interested in the hobby, and converting our tank to a Cichlid (African) tank. Doing research on that now. Sounds like I'd need to find new homes for all but the BN Pleco, convert the substrate to sand, and create rock caves and tunnels. I also need to pick up the water test kit waiting for me.

I'll probably re-read this whole thread again, now that all the equipment and fish name are starting to mean something to me.

 

[TheFanatic]

Here's the tank shortly after the first setup. I've removed the un-used under gravel filter plates and tubes and re-arranged things since then to encourage the barbs to stay away from the glass cats, as they would hide inside the top of that fake tree root. That didn't seem to help much, but after introducing the BN Pleco, the glass cats have stopped hiding for the most part.

My Tank

Took the whole family to the local fish store. The boys came home with a bristle-nose pleco. My wife loved the brightly colored Cichlids at the store, so now she's interested in the hobby, and converting our tank to a Cichlid (African) tank. Doing research on that now. Sounds like I'd need to find new homes for all but the BN Pleco, convert the substrate to sand, and create rock caves and tunnels. I also need to pick up the water test kit waiting for me.

I'll probably re-read this whole thread again, now that all the equipment and fish name are starting to mean something to me.

Nice score. You want to go with African Cichlids? I just helped a buddy do this a few months ago in his 55. I will say this though, Africans are not the easiest fish to keep. The reason is aggression. Africans, for the most part, are very aggressive. And there are varying degrees in which the Africans are aggressive in and among themselves. So, like a Kenyii cichlid looks very similar in shape and size to a yellow lab. My Kenyii ripped the face off of one of my yellow labs.

If you want to go with Africans you need to pick a region and go with that. Malawaiian, Tanganikan, or Victorian. Or go with a species range. I went mainly with Peacocks and Haps. But I also have a couple Tangs (Tretocephalus) that are generally more aggressive than the peacocks and the haps but so far so good. I wouldn't recommend it and would not do it again. Thank God they are both the same sex or one side of my tank would be packed with all the rest of my fish and other side would have the trets. I also have some less aggressive tangs (Julidichromis Transcriptus) that are breeding like crazy and providing some live food for my cichlids and syno cats.

One thing, when going with Africans, you want to avoid a lot of breeding as it will heighten the aggression and likely result with more casualties. Most people stick with males particularly since the females are generally not all that colorful. the problem with that is it is very difficult to sex africans when they are small. In order to be sure that you have a male you may have to buy the fish when they are larger which can cost as much as 10 times as what a small one will buy.

Also, that tank is not suited to be an African tank as it sits now. It needs a boatload of rock work. You need a ton of cubby holes, caves, crevices, cracks, etc. That way all the fish can have it's own territory. If you don't have enough of that whichever fish does not have a place to go hide will be beaten to death.

First, you need to add a great deal of rock work. Do not buy it at the pet store. Go to a landscape supply place. Rock there is like 19 cents a pound rather than $2.19 a pound at the LFS (Local Fish Store).

Then, and this is the most important, research what you want to stock in your tank. Do not buy and THEN research. If you do that it will cost you a lot of money, time and fish.

Also, stock your tank based on what the fish will be at full size and not at what the fish is when you buy it. If you understock and over filtrate you will be in good shape.

Oh, and water changes, water changes, water changes. If you aren't going to do water changes then put the tank back on the CL and let someone else buy it. If you don't do water changes you are just wasting your time....

If you have any questions give me a shout....

 

[Grahamburn]

Intrigued. Sounds like quite a bit of work and preparation/research though.

 

[rsanford]

TheFanatic,

Thanks for the input.

For fish selection, I'll probably follow one of the cookie-cutter setups at cichlid-forum. At the moment, I like the mix of Labidochromis caeruleus and Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei". I think the best migration plan would be to switch-over to sand and rocks with the existing fish, making sure the water parameters stabilize before swapping in the cichlids. It will take some patience and coordination, but not impossible.

I've already been doing weekly 50% water changes, so I'm not too concerned about that. I'm actually picking up a larger gravel vacuum this weekend to speed that process up a bit.

I picked up the water test kit today and am starting to ascertain my needs around water chemistry. Out of the tap, my PH/KH is 7.5/16, and in the tank (6 days from last 50% water change) it is 8.8/16. Amonia and Nitrite are zero for both tap and tank. I suspect the PH rise is due to the high KH, since the driftwood, and any present nitrate should be driving PH down, not up. I'm going to do an experiment where I test tap water treated with Prime immediately after drawing it, then 1/2/4/8 days after. If the PH doesn't rise on its own, I'll repeat the experiment with a representative sample of rocks & gravel from the tank. The results should reveal if any of the structure to be replaced is contributing to the PH rise, and if my water's KH is already buffer enough.

It is usually April around here before things start to thaw out, and I can go rock hunting. That's far enough out to keep me from doing any impulse fish shopping. A lot can happen/change in 3 months.

 

[TLEF316]

my gold ram died the other day. I have absolutely no idea why. He was constantly growing, had gorgeous color and had a teriffic appetite. I woke up saturday, and he was barely able to swim. an hour later he went belly up, so i put him down. I dont get it. The only possible thing i can think of is that my apistos went at him. (maybe they are breeding). Havent noticed any eggs and didnt notice any aggressive behavior until that morning (saw the male peck at him once in his weakened state)

Very sad. He was my favorite fish. Lived 8 months (much longer than i kept the blues alive). I am going to the store tonight, so i'll look at some replacement options.

Switched over to 2 cannister filters now. the plants seem to enjoy the increased flow.

The clown loaches and red tail shark have become very shy over the past few weeks. They hide in the rocks all day. They look fine when i see them (the loaches are as fat as ever) but its a bit odd.

Still dealing with Black algae. I think Co2 is the only way its gonna be fixed.

 

[TheFanatic]

Still dealing with Black algae. I think Co2 is the only way its gonna be fixed.

Try some posphate removers. And check your ferts and make sure they aren't adding any posphates....

 

[TheFanatic]

TheFanatic,

Thanks for the input.

For fish selection, I'll probably follow one of the cookie-cutter setups at cichlid-forum. At the moment, I like the mix of Labidochromis caeruleus and Pseudotropheus sp. "Acei". I think the best migration plan would be to switch-over to sand and rocks with the existing fish, making sure the water parameters stabilize before swapping in the cichlids. It will take some patience and coordination, but not impossible.

I've already been doing weekly 50% water changes, so I'm not too concerned about that. I'm actually picking up a larger gravel vacuum this weekend to speed that process up a bit.

I picked up the water test kit today and am starting to ascertain my needs around water chemistry. Out of the tap, my PH/KH is 7.5/16, and in the tank (6 days from last 50% water change) it is 8.8/16. Amonia and Nitrite are zero for both tap and tank. I suspect the PH rise is due to the high KH, since the driftwood, and any present nitrate should be driving PH down, not up. I'm going to do an experiment where I test tap water treated with Prime immediately after drawing it, then 1/2/4/8 days after. If the PH doesn't rise on its own, I'll repeat the experiment with a representative sample of rocks & gravel from the tank. The results should reveal if any of the structure to be replaced is contributing to the PH rise, and if my water's KH is already buffer enough.

It is usually April around here before things start to thaw out, and I can go rock hunting. That's far enough out to keep me from doing any impulse fish shopping. A lot can happen/change in 3 months.

weekly 50% changes is a little too much in my opinion. If you are going weekly go with 25% tops. Too much stress on the fish.That fish combo is great. I would throw in an Electric Blue Ahli as well as peacocks as they would mix fine with the Acei and the labs....

Also, you may want to pick up the Python water siphon with the T valve connector that allows you to connect it to a shower or sink nozzle. Makes water changes a breeze. No buckets at all.

I've got some new pics I need to put out there. Try to do that today

 

[TLEF316]

came home to a double dose of action today. My 2 dominant clown loaches were fighting it out for the top spot again. Its quite a sight (especially since they have really been hiding for the past 2 weeks).

Also, i went to the fish store on Friday and came home with a pair of Apisto Njessi They seem very active and fun to watch. Obviously, my apisto agassizi have not taken too kindly to them. The females had it out on friday night, and the male agassizi has colored up a lot and has been a tad aggressive. I think they may be breeding. The female seems noticeably thinner today and has dug out a cave underneath some drift wood. Both male and female are actively defending it against the newcomers. since none of my fish have bred yet, i'm pretty excited. Its doubtful that any young could survive in my tank, but I'm still looking forward to watching them try.

 

[rick6668]

Great info in this thread. Haven't gone back and read the whole thing yet, but plan to do so.Been thinking of getting a tank for years. Friend of a friend is looking to get rid of his.Here's what he's got:

It's a 55 gallon, tank on a nice wooden stand, with hood and tank 2 power filters, undergravel filter plate with black gravel. Needs a bigger heater old one broke using a heater from smaller tank right now, I will let the whole thing go for $260 2 Bala Sharks- appox 5 inches long4 rummy nose tetras- schooling fish2 tiger barbs1 clown loach1 black platty1 clown plecstomis - small1 cory1 red shark - smallthis tank is very healthy no fish have died in the tank in many months, just getting bored with it .

Is this too much to take on? I've never had a tank before.Thanks for any input.

 

[TLEF316]

Great info in this thread. Haven't gone back and read the whole thing yet, but plan to do so.Been thinking of getting a tank for years. Friend of a friend is looking to get rid of his.Here's what he's got:

It's a 55 gallon, tank on a nice wooden stand, with hood and tank 2 power filters, undergravel filter plate with black gravel. Needs a bigger heater old one broke using a heater from smaller tank right now, I will let the whole thing go for $260 2 Bala Sharks- appox 5 inches long4 rummy nose tetras- schooling fish2 tiger barbs1 clown loach1 black platty1 clown plecstomis - small1 cory1 red shark - smallthis tank is very healthy no fish have died in the tank in many months, just getting bored with it .

Is this too much to take on? I've never had a tank before.Thanks for any input.

honestly, that stocking list is a nightmarebala sharks are VERY skitish and get very big. A group that small in a 55 gallon is a recipe for disasterrummy nose tetras are GREAT fish, but they need to be in a larger group. (i have a group of 8. they look great and are very active)tiger barbs also need a bigger group (at least 6, probably more). They are fairly aggressive and work out a hierarchy within the shoal. With so few of them in the tank, they'll pick on the other fish instead of keeping the nipping in house.clown loach- again, they get very big and should be in a group. I wouldnt keep a group in a 55 (I'm already having some regret about having my 4 in my 75 gallon)platy- i havent had live bearers, so i couldnt tell ya if they should be in a group or not.clown pleco- some pleco species get very big. just make sure you have 1 that doesnt.1 cory- again, they need groups. (at least 4-6). red shark (i'm assuming red tail black shark). I have one, and he has gotten HUGE (i'd say he's almost 7 inches now, but he hides alot). i wouldnt put one in a 55. they can be aggressive. Mine chases after my rainbow fish every once in a while, but its not that bad. Honestly, i dont think $260 is a great deal for a used setup unless the stand and lighting fixtures are really nice.(at least from the prices i've seen in my area). you'll be inheriting his stocking problems and who knows what type of filters you're getting. Good luck. any other questions, just ask.

 

[TheFanatic]

Great info in this thread. Haven't gone back and read the whole thing yet, but plan to do so.Been thinking of getting a tank for years. Friend of a friend is looking to get rid of his.Here's what he's got:

It's a 55 gallon, tank on a nice wooden stand, with hood and tank 2 power filters, undergravel filter plate with black gravel. Needs a bigger heater old one broke using a heater from smaller tank right now, I will let the whole thing go for $260 2 Bala Sharks- appox 5 inches long4 rummy nose tetras- schooling fish2 tiger barbs1 clown loach1 black platty1 clown plecstomis - small1 cory1 red shark - smallthis tank is very healthy no fish have died in the tank in many months, just getting bored with it .

Is this too much to take on? I've never had a tank before.Thanks for any input.

honestly, that stocking list is a nightmarebala sharks are VERY skitish and get very big. A group that small in a 55 gallon is a recipe for disasterrummy nose tetras are GREAT fish, but they need to be in a larger group. (i have a group of 8. they look great and are very active)tiger barbs also need a bigger group (at least 6, probably more). They are fairly aggressive and work out a hierarchy within the shoal. With so few of them in the tank, they'll pick on the other fish instead of keeping the nipping in house.clown loach- again, they get very big and should be in a group. I wouldnt keep a group in a 55 (I'm already having some regret about having my 4 in my 75 gallon)platy- i havent had live bearers, so i couldnt tell ya if they should be in a group or not.clown pleco- some pleco species get very big. just make sure you have 1 that doesnt.1 cory- again, they need groups. (at least 4-6). red shark (i'm assuming red tail black shark). I have one, and he has gotten HUGE (i'd say he's almost 7 inches now, but he hides alot). i wouldnt put one in a 55. they can be aggressive. Mine chases after my rainbow fish every once in a while, but its not that bad. Honestly, i dont think $260 is a great deal for a used setup unless the stand and lighting fixtures are really nice.(at least from the prices i've seen in my area). you'll be inheriting his stocking problems and who knows what type of filters you're getting. Good luck. any other questions, just ask.

Look how far TLEF has come!?!?! My boy is all growed up!?!?!I agree with everything TLEF. Very haphazard stocking list. Total walk through PetSmart saying, "give me a couple of those, and one of those and one of those and two of those, etc" without researching a single species to find out what requirements it needs. Fish from different continents with different water reqs, feeding reqs (bala sharks are almost pure vegetarians), lighting reqs, and a complete disregard to schooling reqs. 4 Rummy nose together isn't bad, but if it were me I would at least double that....Tiger barbs beat the crap out of each other which makes a school of them a necessity in a community tank and when one of the two dies the other will look for another fish to beat up on. And when that happens kiss the rummy noses goodbye...Then probably the bala sharks....

 

[TLEF316]

now if i could only solve my algae issues. I'm closing on my condo on april 30th and probably moving the tank a week or so after that. I'm planning on going pressurized Co2 shortly after setting it up. Should help.

My fish are actually pretty good. the sudden shyness of my clowns and RTBS is disaspointing, but everything else is fine. 1 clown appears to be very sub-dominant. He used to be the same size and is now roughly 40% the size of the dominant fish. He eats well and isnt skinny, he just hasnt balooned like his buddies.

 

[rick6668]

Thasnk fanatic and TLEF for the great input. Those responses taught me something, "I KNOW NOTHING".

Yikes... no idea if I want to even get into this.

 

[TLEF316]

i was actually out on an appointment yesterday and they had a few tanks sitting around. One in particular was a total mess (i'm guessing it was somewhere between 40 and 60 gallons. Stocking, from what i could see, consisted of the following.....

2 black sharks (one was like 9 inches at least, the other around 7)

Something that looked like an Oscar (6-7 inches)

2 fish that i guess were tinfoil barbs (5 inches)

a 7 inch Red tailed shark

2 green tiger barbs(full grown)

2 other fish that i didnt recognize that were between 5 and 7 inches.

The fish actually looked fairly healthy and the tank was clean. There was minimal decoration. no place to hide. i was shocked that those fish werent killing eachother.

 

[TLEF316]

Thasnk fanatic and TLEF for the great input. Those responses taught me something, "I KNOW NOTHING".Yikes... no idea if I want to even get into this.

if you're gonna do it right, there's a lot of info to process at the start. However, if you start slowly and do your research, you'll avoid a lot of headaches. Gotta decide exactly what type of fish you want and how much space you have for a tank. after that, your options start to fall into place.

 

[TheFanatic]

now if i could only solve my algae issues. I'm closing on my condo on april 30th and probably moving the tank a week or so after that. I'm planning on going pressurized Co2 shortly after setting it up. Should help.

My fish are actually pretty good. the sudden shyness of my clowns and RTBS is disaspointing, but everything else is fine. 1 clown appears to be very sub-dominant. He used to be the same size and is now roughly 40% the size of the dominant fish. He eats well and isnt skinny, he just hasnt balooned like his buddies.

I had that happen with loaches before. Had two in a tank years ago. They lived maybe 12 years. They didn't grow a milimeter in 3 years. Then in a few months or so one was more than double the size of the other. Then a few months later they were nearly the same size. Very strange fish....But probably the best "personality" of any fresh water fish. I mean they aren't octopi in terms of personality but they definitely are characters...

 

[TLEF316]

now if i could only solve my algae issues. I'm closing on my condo on april 30th and probably moving the tank a week or so after that. I'm planning on going pressurized Co2 shortly after setting it up. Should help.

My fish are actually pretty good. the sudden shyness of my clowns and RTBS is disaspointing, but everything else is fine. 1 clown appears to be very sub-dominant. He used to be the same size and is now roughly 40% the size of the dominant fish. He eats well and isnt skinny, he just hasnt balooned like his buddies.

I had that happen with loaches before. Had two in a tank years ago. They lived maybe 12 years. They didn't grow a milimeter in 3 years. Then in a few months or so one was more than double the size of the other. Then a few months later they were nearly the same size. Very strange fish....But probably the best "personality" of any fresh water fish. I mean they aren't octopi in terms of personality but they definitely are characters...

mine used to have a bunch of personality, but since the tank move they just hide any time there isnt food on the ground

 

[TheFanatic]

Thasnk fanatic and TLEF for the great input. Those responses taught me something, "I KNOW NOTHING".Yikes... no idea if I want to even get into this.

if you're gonna do it right, there's a lot of info to process at the start. However, if you start slowly and do your research, you'll avoid a lot of headaches. Gotta decide exactly what type of fish you want and how much space you have for a tank. after that, your options start to fall into place.

Do the research, understock, realize that fish grow, never buy a fish based on an assumption of buying a bigger tank later, and the most important thing - do water changes. If you can't devote 30 minutes a month to water changes don't bother. All you will do is cause you and your fish a lot of stress.That tank you talked about that was way packed with fish and everything seemed to be doing fine probably has regular water changes done on it. That stocking will still lead to problems as those fish are no where near done growing but regular water changes will give a fish keeper a lot of room for error....

 

[TLEF316]

yeah, i'm still doing roughly 25% every week. I can do it in less than 20 minutes now that i'm not vacuuming the bottom as much (since the tank is so heavily planted)

 

[TheFanatic]

yeah, i'm still doing roughly 25% every week. I can do it in less than 20 minutes now that i'm not vacuuming the bottom as much (since the tank is so heavily planted)

That is ideal. Around 33% a month will work. But without the commitment to basic maintenance don't bother. With a shower attachment to my python I can do water changes on my 110 gallon, 75, and 55 in about 3 minutes with a beer in my hand the whole time. Once a month is all I can do. An 11 month old, a house to maintain, work, a website, and a minimal social life only affords me a once a month deal...

 

[TLEF316]

its been right around 2 years since i started this thing up. Moved into my new place about a month ago and took the opportunity to re-scape the tank. I still need some stuff to grow in a bit and i need to work on attaching the background better. But i figured i'd throw up a few pictures anyway...

Full tank shot (no lights)

full tank

rainbow fish

apisto

clown

Sterbai cory

skunk cory

both

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

its been right around 2 years since i started this thing up. Moved into my new place about a month ago and took the opportunity to re-scape the tank. I still need some stuff to grow in a bit and i need to work on attaching the background better. But i figured i'd throw up a few pictures anyway...

Full tank shot (no lights)

full tank

rainbow fish

apisto

clown

Sterbai cory

skunk cory

both

very sharp lookin tank.I miss this hobby, everytime I tel lthe wife I want to set my african tank back up she is like, lets do salt water and Im like NO WAY not enough time to babysit a saltwater tank again