Any news on Vincent Jackson trade rumors? (1 Viewer)

[Maurile Tremblay]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

He's not saying either one of those things.First, he's not offering $3.3 million. He's offering $583,000. Second, teams don't offer restricted free agents what they are "worth" (whatever that means). Nor should they. That's the whole point of restricted free agency: to give teams bargaining power over players in order to get those players signed for far below what they are "worth." That's something the players conceded in order to win more favorable terms on other provisions of the CBA. Moreover, teams aren't legally or morally obligated to give into a player's trade demands, especially on terms they don't like.VJ doesn't want to sign a contract he doesn't like. That's fine. The Chargers don't want to make a trade they don't like. That's equally fine. Neither is hypocritical.

 

[CamelGod]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

If that's the case, then restricted free agent tenders are COMPLETELY off the mark, since you only have to compensate $3.3million for a first and third. I don't recall any player in recent history receiving a first and third tender, and another team coming in to swoop that player away willing to give up their 1st and 3rd round picks (anyone with that info, I'd be thrilled to hear it). The fact that no team came in like a knight in shining armor willing to give up a 2nd and 3rd for him (like the 'phins did for Marshall) indicates GMs don't value Vincent as much as he does himself.

 

[cstu]

Can someone explain to me what AJ is thinking by passing up a 2nd for VJax?

 

[CamelGod]

Can someone explain to me what AJ is thinking by passing up a 2nd for VJax?

The only things I can think are this:1. Prevents the talent from going to a competitor2. Still retains the rights for all sorts of unknowns next year, including2a. He's still a RFA next year from not playing -> Trade2b. Franchise Tag -> Trade3. Minuscule shot at him signing and playing weeks 12-17 (and any possible post season games)4. Still waiting for his up front asking price of a 2nd+3rd rounder by October 19thHe's still in the power position at the moment until someone meets his demands, or the season ends and RFA + Franchise Tagging are GONE in the new CBA

 

[chinawildman]

Can someone explain to me what AJ is thinking by passing up a 2nd for VJax?

I'm curious as well... Seems like there's more than meets the eye in this situation. What do the chargers stand to gain by refusing the trade?

 

[tommyGunZ]

Some of the misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.

As a Charger fan, I was hoping AJ would agree to a deal today so that this saga would come to a close. There is no doubt AJ has an ego, but I don't believe he puts his ego ahead of the interests of the San Diego Chargers. No one has more incentive to do whats best for the franchise in the short and long run than AJ Smith, as he's ultimately judged by their success.

Those suggesting AJ overvalues his leverage and made a mistake not accepting the 2nd and conditional pick, that's fine. But those who are suggesting personal, ulterior motives are way, way off, IMO.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?

Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

He's not saying either one of those things.First, he's not offering $3.3 million. He's offering $583,000. Second, teams don't offer restricted free agents what they are "worth" (whatever that means). Nor should they. That's the whole point of restricted free agency: to give teams bargaining power over players in order to get those players signed for far below what they are "worth." That's something the players conceded in order to win more favorable terms on other provisions of the CBA. Moreover, teams aren't legally or morally obligated to give into a player's trade demands, especially on terms they don't like.

VJ doesn't want to sign a contract he doesn't like. That's fine. The Chargers don't want to make a trade they don't like. That's equally fine. Neither is hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure that isn't the intention..

Seems more likely that it was intended to be used as a way to hold onto a franchise type player who might have otherwise been lured away by someone willing to pay more than he's worth.

I don't think there was anyone sitting at the table during that deal thinking of ways they could screw someone out of what they're worth..

I find it funny Chargers fans are defending these actions. I feel for the guy, he's getting screwed. Maybe his initial demands were to high, but the chargers never negotiated, and wouldn't unless he handed them over all the leverage by signing a tender that was ridiculously low for his caliber. They may have been able to get a deal done if not for tactics that from my perspective look pretty underhanded.

At least admit that it not fair.. You can still love your team and not completely agree with their tactics.

AJ is a complete tool when it comes to how he's treating this situation.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Can someone explain to me what AJ is thinking by passing up a 2nd for VJax?

I'm curious as well... Seems like there's more than meets the eye in this situation. What do the chargers stand to gain by refusing the trade?

Maybe hoping VJ ultimately signs the tender, bringing him back to help for the second part of 2010...?

 

[bulger2holt]

According to Rams sources, the Rams had a long term deal worked out with VJax but the Rams failed to give up their 2nd and 3rd rounders in the 2011 draft. Dang, Bradford would have loved him too.

 

[Ysatnaf_Gnik]

It would be funny if AJ ends up not getting much as compensation next yr after the new CBA is in place. Nothing would make me happier...It is beyond my comprehension how Charger fans can agree with AJ's stance.....good luck!!

 

[CamelGod]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?

Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

He's not saying either one of those things.First, he's not offering $3.3 million. He's offering $583,000. Second, teams don't offer restricted free agents what they are "worth" (whatever that means). Nor should they. That's the whole point of restricted free agency: to give teams bargaining power over players in order to get those players signed for far below what they are "worth." That's something the players conceded in order to win more favorable terms on other provisions of the CBA. Moreover, teams aren't legally or morally obligated to give into a player's trade demands, especially on terms they don't like.

VJ doesn't want to sign a contract he doesn't like. That's fine. The Chargers don't want to make a trade they don't like. That's equally fine. Neither is hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure that isn't the intention..

Seems more likely that it was intended to be used as a way to hold onto a franchise type player who might have otherwise been lured away by someone willing to pay more than he's worth.

I don't think there was anyone sitting at the table during that deal thinking of ways they could screw someone out of what they're worth..

I find it funny Chargers fans are defending these actions. I feel for the guy, he's getting screwed. Maybe his initial demands were to high, but the chargers never negotiated, and wouldn't unless he handed them over all the leverage by signing a tender that was ridiculously low for his caliber. They may have been able to get a deal done if not for tactics that from my perspective look pretty underhanded.

At least admit that it not fair.. You can still love your team and not completely agree with their tactics.

AJ is a complete tool when it comes to how he's treating this situation.

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.I'll also admit that Vincent Jackson got royally hosed in the whole deal, but not by AJ. The CBA's last year removing his UFA eligibility (that his agents knew was happening a long time ago and should have prepared VJax for) is what caused this whole thing to get ugly. It's definitely hard not to feel for the guy.

I can't agree, however, that anything he's done has been either unethical or hypocritical.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.I'll also admit that Vincent Jackson got royally hosed in the whole deal, but not by AJ. The CBA's last year removing his UFA eligibility (that his agents knew was happening a long time ago and should have prepared VJax for) is what caused this whole thing to get ugly. It's definitely hard not to feel for the guy.I can't agree, however, that anything he's done has been either unethical or hypocritical.

Just because it's legally sound, doesn't mean it's ethical.Maybe you can tell me in your mind what you would consider "unethical". Using leverage to grossly underpay someone or leave them with no other option but to waste a year of their career by basically blocking him from playing anywhere else is in their legal right but in my mind is unethical.

 

[Yenrub]

I am curious to know what the franchise tag salary is for a WR

 

[Clifford]

Some of the misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.As a Charger fan, I was hoping AJ would agree to a deal today so that this saga would come to a close. There is no doubt AJ has an ego, but I don't believe he puts his ego ahead of the interests of the San Diego Chargers. No one has more incentive to do whats best for the franchise in the short and long run than AJ Smith, as he's ultimately judged by their success. Those suggesting AJ overvalues his leverage and made a mistake not accepting the 2nd and conditional pick, that's fine. But those who are suggesting personal, ulterior motives are way, way off, IMO.

I just think it was really dumb and possibly personally motivated.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.I'll also admit that Vincent Jackson got royally hosed in the whole deal, but not by AJ. The CBA's last year removing his UFA eligibility (that his agents knew was happening a long time ago and should have prepared VJax for) is what caused this whole thing to get ugly. It's definitely hard not to feel for the guy.I can't agree, however, that anything he's done has been either unethical or hypocritical.

Just because it's legally sound, doesn't mean it's ethical.Maybe you can tell me in your mind what you would consider "unethical". Using leverage to grossly underpay someone or leave them with no other option but to waste a year of their career by basically blocking him from playing anywhere else is in their legal right but in my mind is unethical.

What? If you believe that "using your leverage to underpay" a player is unethical, then you must think every GM in every professional sport is unethical. Every team has lots of players whose value exceeds their salary. Likewise, some guys are making far too much compared to their production. Are they unethical?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.I'll also admit that Vincent Jackson got royally hosed in the whole deal, but not by AJ. The CBA's last year removing his UFA eligibility (that his agents knew was happening a long time ago and should have prepared VJax for) is what caused this whole thing to get ugly. It's definitely hard not to feel for the guy.I can't agree, however, that anything he's done has been either unethical or hypocritical.

Just because it's legally sound, doesn't mean it's ethical.Maybe you can tell me in your mind what you would consider "unethical". Using leverage to grossly underpay someone or leave them with no other option but to waste a year of their career by basically blocking him from playing anywhere else is in their legal right but in my mind is unethical.

What? If you believe that "using your leverage to underpay" a player is unethical, then you must think every GM in every professional sport is unethical. Every team has lots of players whose value exceeds their salary. Likewise, some guys are making far too much compared to their production. Are they unethical?

If Jackson were to play this season for what the Chargers are currently offering to pay, you think that is similar to what is going on elsewhere in the league..?Yes, I think a player who is not playing up to contract, or at least not trying, should be cut.... O' what.. That is something that already happens... Teams can cut players who don't live up to contract, essentially canceling their contract. Players are the only ones being held to contract in this league in that regard.

 

[tommyGunZ]

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.I'll also admit that Vincent Jackson got royally hosed in the whole deal, but not by AJ. The CBA's last year removing his UFA eligibility (that his agents knew was happening a long time ago and should have prepared VJax for) is what caused this whole thing to get ugly. It's definitely hard not to feel for the guy.I can't agree, however, that anything he's done has been either unethical or hypocritical.

Just because it's legally sound, doesn't mean it's ethical.Maybe you can tell me in your mind what you would consider "unethical". Using leverage to grossly underpay someone or leave them with no other option but to waste a year of their career by basically blocking him from playing anywhere else is in their legal right but in my mind is unethical.

What? If you believe that "using your leverage to underpay" a player is unethical, then you must think every GM in every professional sport is unethical. Every team has lots of players whose value exceeds their salary. Likewise, some guys are making far too much compared to their production. Are they unethical?

If Jackson were to play this season for what the Chargers are currently offering to pay, you think that is similar to what is going on elsewhere in the league..?

Yes. Austin Collie is making 395k, and is 6th in the league in catches. In baseball, Jason Heyward is barely making above the league minimum, but is worth 15-20M per year. Those two just off the top of my head. It happens on every team, in every league.

Yes, I think a player who is not playing up to contract, or at least not trying, should be cut.... O' what.. That is something that already happens... Teams can cut players who don't live up to contract, essentially canceling their contract. Players are the only ones being held to contract in this league in that regard.

The player may be cut, but they don't give back the money they were paid when they failed to produce. You think Darren Sproles is giving the Chargers back the 7M he earned as a 3rd down back and punt returner last year? You think LT is giving Dean Spanos back the 8M he was paid to gain ~ 800 yards last season? Are Sproles and LT "unethical"?

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes. Austin Collie is making 395k, and is 6th in the league in catches. In baseball, Jason Heyward is barely making above the league minimum, but is worth 15-20M per year. Those two just off the top of my head. It happens on every team, in every league.The player may be cut, but they don't give back the money they were paid when they failed to produce. You think Darren Sproles is giving the Chargers back the 7M he earned as a 3rd down back and punt returner last year? You think LT is giving Dean Spanos back the 8M he was paid to gain ~ 800 yards last season? Are Sproles and LT "unethical"?

You're comparing Vincent Jackson to Austin Collie and baseball players? Neither of those examples work.. sorry...Sproles/LT example is not close either.. LT produced for years and was paid based on a contract that he had produced well for... Sproles was a lot closer to being worth 7m, the Jackson is to being worth 300k.. And nobody said anything about players giving back money..Jackson has been outplaying his contract for years.... This isn't a one year thing, he deserves more then what he's being offered...

 

[thehornet]

Yes. Austin Collie is making 395k, and is 6th in the league in catches. In baseball, Jason Heyward is barely making above the league minimum, but is worth 15-20M per year. Those two just off the top of my head. It happens on every team, in every league.The player may be cut, but they don't give back the money they were paid when they failed to produce. You think Darren Sproles is giving the Chargers back the 7M he earned as a 3rd down back and punt returner last year? You think LT is giving Dean Spanos back the 8M he was paid to gain ~ 800 yards last season? Are Sproles and LT "unethical"?

You're comparing Vincent Jackson to Austin Collie and baseball players? Neither of those examples work.. sorry...Sproles/LT example is not close either.. LT produced for years and was paid based on a contract that he had produced well for... Sproles was a lot closer to being worth 7m, the Jackson is to being worth 300k.. And nobody said anything about players giving back money..Jackson has been outplaying his contract for years.... This isn't a one year thing, he deserves more then what he's being offered...

please list his stats his first 3 years. thanks.

 

[craxie]

The fact that no team came in like a knight in shining armor willing to give up a 2nd and 3rd for him (like the 'phins did for Marshall) indicates GMs don't value Vincent as much as he does himself.

except he had deals worked out with several teams, so apparently he and other GMs were able to reach a mutual agreement about his value

 

[Carolina Hustler]

Yes. Austin Collie is making 395k, and is 6th in the league in catches. In baseball, Jason Heyward is barely making above the league minimum, but is worth 15-20M per year. Those two just off the top of my head. It happens on every team, in every league.The player may be cut, but they don't give back the money they were paid when they failed to produce. You think Darren Sproles is giving the Chargers back the 7M he earned as a 3rd down back and punt returner last year? You think LT is giving Dean Spanos back the 8M he was paid to gain ~ 800 yards last season? Are Sproles and LT "unethical"?

You're comparing Vincent Jackson to Austin Collie and baseball players? Neither of those examples work.. sorry...Sproles/LT example is not close either.. LT produced for years and was paid based on a contract that he had produced well for... Sproles was a lot closer to being worth 7m, the Jackson is to being worth 300k.. And nobody said anything about players giving back money..Jackson has been outplaying his contract for years.... This isn't a one year thing, he deserves more then what he's being offered...

please list his stats his first 3 years. thanks.

Why list them? they're available for everyone to see, everyone knows where to find them... You're seriously never adding anything to these threads....

 

[craxie]

I'll agree that it's unfortunate that GMs can treat players like chess pieces and have absolutely zero human reflection in how they deal with the person. AJ is as bad as they come when it comes to caring at all about the person behind his decisions. He could care less about the person, and operates 100% what he thinks is best for the Charger organization as a business entity.

not reallyIf VJ is willing to sign for $6 million, what is best for the chargers is clearly to show VJ the money

that's still ridiculously cheap for a receiver of his caliber

if they have decided they don't want VJ on the team for whatever reason, the next best move for the TEAM would be to get as high compensation as possible for him

ie NOT turning down a guaranteed 2 in favor of a possible late 3 compensatory

already we have 2 demonstrations of AJ not acting in the team's interest

all the other scenarios aren't going to happen

- VJ is not going to sign his tender

- VJ will not still be a RFA under the new CBA

- AJ isn't going to franchise him next year and risk paying him $9 million

- no possible trade partner is going to offer more than the desperate Vikes who have a desperate need at WR

as to why he doesn't operate in the Charger's best interests? I'll leave that for you to speculate.

 

[thehornet]

Yes. Austin Collie is making 395k, and is 6th in the league in catches. In baseball, Jason Heyward is barely making above the league minimum, but is worth 15-20M per year. Those two just off the top of my head. It happens on every team, in every league.

The player may be cut, but they don't give back the money they were paid when they failed to produce. You think Darren Sproles is giving the Chargers back the 7M he earned as a 3rd down back and punt returner last year? You think LT is giving Dean Spanos back the 8M he was paid to gain ~ 800 yards last season? Are Sproles and LT "unethical"?

You're comparing Vincent Jackson to Austin Collie and baseball players? Neither of those examples work.. sorry...

Sproles/LT example is not close either.. LT produced for years and was paid based on a contract that he had produced well for... Sproles was a lot closer to being worth 7m, the Jackson is to being worth 300k.. And nobody said anything about players giving back money..

Jackson has been outplaying his contract for years.... This isn't a one year thing, he deserves more then what he's being offered...

please list his stats his first 3 years. thanks.

Why list them? they're available for everyone to see, everyone knows where to find them... You're seriously never adding anything to these threads....

you said he has ben outplaying his contract for years and i just proved you wrong. his first 2 years are AWFUL. His 3rd wasnt even close to outplaying his contract. He's had one above average year ever. post the stats if you dont think they are relevant.

 

[craxie]

you said he has ben outplaying his contract for years and i just proved you wrong. his first 2 years are AWFUL. His 3rd wasnt even close to outplaying his contract. He's had one above average year ever. post the stats if you dont think they are relevant.

i remember this discussion from the other threadand as i recall the argument went something like this:his postseason production alone in year 3 was worth more than his contractthen his production in years 4+5 is darn near identical to Brandon Marshall's the last two years even though his team passes far less (implying VJ is significantly better than BM)if BM's last 2 years mean he is worth 20 whatever guaranteed, then surely VJ has far outplayed his tiny contractanyways, that's outplaying his contract in years 3+4+5 which is 3 years which meets the definition of 'several'

 

[Ysatnaf_Gnik]

from Michael Silver at Yahoo Sports:

"For example, sources say Jackson’s agents will attempt to get back at Smith by making sure their receiver, once he ends up with a new team next spring (or later, depending upon the uncertain labor landscape), has an inordinately low base salary for 2011 – which would likely reduce the compensatory pick the Chargers would receive for losing Jackson from a potential third-rounder to a sixth- or seventh-round selection."

I hope this does happen to AJ.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

you said he has ben outplaying his contract for years and i just proved you wrong. his first 2 years are AWFUL. His 3rd wasnt even close to outplaying his contract. He's had one above average year ever. post the stats if you dont think they are relevant.

i remember this discussion from the other threadand as i recall the argument went something like this:his postseason production alone in year 3 was worth more than his contractthen his production in years 4+5 is darn near identical to Brandon Marshall's the last two years even though his team passes far less (implying VJ is significantly better than BM)if BM's last 2 years mean he is worth 20 whatever guaranteed, then surely VJ has far outplayed his tiny contractanyways, that's outplaying his contract in years 3+4+5 which is 3 years which meets the definition of 'several'

He was trolling, yet again.. Thank you for the recant, I just didn't feel like his posting warranted it being explained again. I'm sure he could care less about the facts of the matter, he's more looking to troll and snipe then anything else..Jackson could certainly help the chargers this season, the fact that he's now willing to sign a one year deal should have driven them back to the bargaining table... I'm not sure why it hasn't, maybe a huge mistake on their part...

 

[tommyGunZ]

According to sources, Minnesota increased its offer every three days over the past several days, but that offer never rose to what the Chargers were asking for.

The Chargers’ price started as two second-round draft picks and ended up being a second-rounder in 2011 and a fourth-rounder in 2012. The two and four was for the one-year deal the Vikings’ reached with Jackson and would have been higher for a team desiring to sign Jackson to a multi-year contract. Chargers sources said that to their knowledge no multi-year deal existed.

Jackson’s asking price dropped over the last several weeks from $50 million over five years to the one-year deal to get out of San Diego.

"We never got really deep into it," Rams General Manager Billy Devaney said of talks about Jackson. "But I thought if you're willing to pay the money for the guy, the draft picks the Chargers were talking about were not unreasonable.

So it turns out the Chargers did budge on the asking price, but the sticking point was the Vikes not being willing to give up the 4th rounder in 2012.Also interesting that the Rams GM thought the Chargers asking price was reasonable. A little something for the FBG armchair GMs who are calling AJ Smith an idiot to chew on.

 

[az_prof]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

If that's the case, then restricted free agent tenders are COMPLETELY off the mark, since you only have to compensate $3.3million for a first and third. I don't recall any player in recent history receiving a first and third tender, and another team coming in to swoop that player away willing to give up their 1st and 3rd round picks (anyone with that info, I'd be thrilled to hear it). The fact that no team came in like a knight in shining armor willing to give up a 2nd and 3rd for him (like the 'phins did for Marshall) indicates GMs don't value Vincent as much as he does himself.

This is how I see it.

 

[Mr. PadresLakers]

from Michael Silver at Yahoo Sports:

"For example, sources say Jackson’s agents will attempt to get back at Smith by making sure their receiver, once he ends up with a new team next spring (or later, depending upon the uncertain labor landscape), has an inordinately low base salary for 2011 – which would likely reduce the compensatory pick the Chargers would receive for losing Jackson from a potential third-rounder to a sixth- or seventh-round selection."

I hope this does happen to AJ.

Jackson should just sign a one year minimum contract next year.

Agent of the Year

 

[BoltzNBrew]

$3.3mil>$0. Jackson really had nothing to bargain with. 2 DUI's and a looming 3 game suspension does not warrant BM type money. He should have signed his tender, served his suspension and finished out the season and shown everyone that he's really worth that much and his DUI days are behind him. I realize a pro-players needs to get as much as they can now but in this case I think VJ was getting bad advice. I am sure a new VJ contract would have been guarnteed money heavy and I can't image anyone willing to throw that kind of money away should he screw up AGAIN. AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

so AJ offers substantially less than Brandon Marshall money, but want BM compensation?

Don't you see that he's the hypocrite here?

AJ doesn't have to trade Jackson if he doesn't want to, just like VJ doesn't have to play this season if he doesn't want to.You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

sure on the one hand he's saying VJ is only worth 3.3 million, but on the other hand ghe's saying he's worth a 2nd and a 4rd.That's hypocritical

He's not saying either one of those things.First, he's not offering $3.3 million. He's offering $583,000. Second, teams don't offer restricted free agents what they are "worth" (whatever that means). Nor should they. That's the whole point of restricted free agency: to give teams bargaining power over players in order to get those players signed for far below what they are "worth." That's something the players conceded in order to win more favorable terms on other provisions of the CBA. Moreover, teams aren't legally or morally obligated to give into a player's trade demands, especially on terms they don't like.

VJ doesn't want to sign a contract he doesn't like. That's fine. The Chargers don't want to make a trade they don't like. That's equally fine. Neither is hypocritical.

I'm pretty sure that isn't the intention..

Seems more likely that it was intended to be used as a way to hold onto a franchise type player who might have otherwise been lured away by someone willing to pay more than he's worth.

I don't think there was anyone sitting at the table during that deal thinking of ways they could screw someone out of what they're worth..

How are you measuring what a restricted free agent is worth? If it's the amount that it takes to prevent another team from coming in and scooping him away, then Vincent Jackson was worth $3.3 million this year, and he was in fact offered what he is worth.If it's the amount that he'd make on the open market if only he were an unrestricted free agent — which is what I think most people mean when they say that Jackson was offered only a fraction of what he's worth — then the point of restricted free agency is indeed to allow teams to sign players for much less than they're worth. I don't see how that can be debated. If Jackson would be able to command $9 million per year on the open market, the whole point of making him a restricted free agent this year is to allow the Chargers to retain his rights without offering him anywhere near that amount.

 

[craxie]

AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

So VJ being frustrated proves AJ was right to turn down a guaranteed 2 in favor of a possible low 3?Sorry for not following the 'logic' there.

 

[mambomambo]

How are you measuring what a restricted free agent is worth? If it's the amount that it takes to prevent another team from coming in and scooping him away, then Vincent Jackson was worth $3.3 million this year, and he was in fact offered what he is worth.If it's the amount that he'd make on the open market if only he were an unrestricted free agent — which is what I think most people mean when they say that Jackson was offered only a fraction of what he's worth — then the point of restricted free agency is indeed to allow teams to sign players for much less than they're worth. I don't see how that can be debated. If Jackson would be able to command $9 million per year on the open market, the whole point of making him a restricted free agent this year is to allow the Chargers to retain his rights without offering him anywhere near that amount.

Does any of this even matter now? Maurile, how are you going to fell if next yr the Chargers end up getting only a 5th rd pick as compensation?

 

[mambomambo]

AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

So VJ being frustrated proves AJ was right to turn down a guaranteed 2 in favor of a possible low 3?Sorry for not following the 'logic' there.

That is because there is no logic....

 

[Tau837]

According to sources, Minnesota increased its offer every three days over the past several days, but that offer never rose to what the Chargers were asking for.

The Chargers’ price started as two second-round draft picks and ended up being a second-rounder in 2011 and a fourth-rounder in 2012. The two and four was for the one-year deal the Vikings’ reached with Jackson and would have been higher for a team desiring to sign Jackson to a multi-year contract. Chargers sources said that to their knowledge no multi-year deal existed.

Jackson’s asking price dropped over the last several weeks from $50 million over five years to the one-year deal to get out of San Diego.

"We never got really deep into it," Rams General Manager Billy Devaney said of talks about Jackson. "But I thought if you're willing to pay the money for the guy, the draft picks the Chargers were talking about were not unreasonable.

So it turns out the Chargers did budge on the asking price, but the sticking point was the Vikes not being willing to give up the 4th rounder in 2012.Also interesting that the Rams GM thought the Chargers asking price was reasonable. A little something for the FBG armchair GMs who are calling AJ Smith an idiot to chew on.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Does any of this even matter now? Maurile, how are you going to fell if next yr the Chargers end up getting only a 5th rd pick as compensation?

The same way I'd feel if my fantasy team's first-rounder tears his ACL this weekend. Sometimes we don't get the results we want; but getting undesirable results doesn't necessarily mean we made the wrong decision.

 

[cstu]

According to sources, Minnesota increased its offer every three days over the past several days, but that offer never rose to what the Chargers were asking for.

The Chargers’ price started as two second-round draft picks and ended up being a second-rounder in 2011 and a fourth-rounder in 2012. The two and four was for the one-year deal the Vikings’ reached with Jackson and would have been higher for a team desiring to sign Jackson to a multi-year contract. Chargers sources said that to their knowledge no multi-year deal existed.

Jackson’s asking price dropped over the last several weeks from $50 million over five years to the one-year deal to get out of San Diego.

"We never got really deep into it," Rams General Manager Billy Devaney said of talks about Jackson. "But I thought if you're willing to pay the money for the guy, the draft picks the Chargers were talking about were not unreasonable.

So it turns out the Chargers did budge on the asking price, but the sticking point was the Vikes not being willing to give up the 4th rounder in 2012.Also interesting that the Rams GM thought the Chargers asking price was reasonable. A little something for the FBG armchair GMs who are calling AJ Smith an idiot to chew on.

He's an idiot for passing up a 2nd when at best they will get a late 3rd now. The 4th should not have been a sticking point.

 

[mambomambo]

Does any of this even matter now? Maurile, how are you going to fell if next yr the Chargers end up getting only a 5th rd pick as compensation?

The same way I'd feel if my fantasy team's first-rounder tears his ACL this weekend. Sometimes we don't get the results we want; but getting undesirable results doesn't necessarily mean we made the wrong decision.

Of course it doesnt. But given the facts you have presented today and the uncertainties of tomorrow, one should be able to quantify the present value of most of the potential future outcomes of a decision made today. In my opinion, the risk/reward is just not there.

 

[BoltzNBrew]

AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

So VJ being frustrated proves AJ was right to turn down a guaranteed 2 in favor of a possible low 3?Sorry for not following the 'logic' there.

That is because there is no logic....

And he's frustrated why? Because he didn't get what he wanted? It's obvious there are too many question marks surrounding him and nobody is willing to pay him what he thinks he's worth or compensate the Chargers for even much less than what the tender was. Everyone is pointing the finger at AJ because he's an easy target and not stopping to think that perhaps VJ and his agents royally screwed this up on thier own. If he was worth it someone surely would have stepped up and given SD what little they were asking which was much less than the 1st and 3rd tender.

 

[mambomambo]

AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

So VJ being frustrated proves AJ was right to turn down a guaranteed 2 in favor of a possible low 3?Sorry for not following the 'logic' there.

That is because there is no logic....

And he's frustrated why? Because he didn't get what he wanted? It's obvious there are too many question marks surrounding him and nobody is willing to pay him what he thinks he's worth or compensate the Chargers for even much less than what the tender was. Everyone is pointing the finger at AJ because he's an easy target and not stopping to think that perhaps VJ and his agents royally screwed this up on thier own. If he was worth it someone surely would have stepped up and given SD what little they were asking which was much less than the 1st and 3rd tender.

Are you AJ SMITH???

 

[Sebowski]

AJ didn't suspend Gates any more than he's currently suspending Jackson; and he didn't have the power to un-suspend Gates any more than he currently has the power to un-suspend Jackson.

Let not forget this is the guy that let Brees and Turner walk for nothing. Zero. For a total of both of them.

 

[mambomambo]

AJ didn't suspend Gates any more than he's currently suspending Jackson; and he didn't have the power to un-suspend Gates any more than he currently has the power to un-suspend Jackson.

Let not forget this is the guy that let Brees and Turner walk for nothing. Zero. For a total of both of them.

He is a genius!

 

[Sebowski]

More to the point, not understanding how he operates, or choosing to ignore it, is a bad idea - particularly if you're trying to negotiate with him (or making comments about it on a message board) - which inevitably leads to "wasting time" and frustration.

Really? All I've ever heard from AJ is if they didn't sign the original offer they would get the lowered one or nothing.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

According to sources, Minnesota increased its offer every three days over the past several days, but that offer never rose to what the Chargers were asking for.

The Chargers’ price started as two second-round draft picks and ended up being a second-rounder in 2011 and a fourth-rounder in 2012. The two and four was for the one-year deal the Vikings’ reached with Jackson and would have been higher for a team desiring to sign Jackson to a multi-year contract. Chargers sources said that to their knowledge no multi-year deal existed.

Jackson’s asking price dropped over the last several weeks from $50 million over five years to the one-year deal to get out of San Diego.

"We never got really deep into it," Rams General Manager Billy Devaney said of talks about Jackson. "But I thought if you're willing to pay the money for the guy, the draft picks the Chargers were talking about were not unreasonable.

So it turns out the Chargers did budge on the asking price, but the sticking point was the Vikes not being willing to give up the 4th rounder in 2012.Also interesting that the Rams GM thought the Chargers asking price was reasonable. A little something for the FBG armchair GMs who are calling AJ Smith an idiot to chew on.

Because the Rams GM has done such a great job making decisions for his team in recent history.....

 

[Carolina Hustler]

$3.3mil>$0. Jackson really had nothing to bargain with. 2 DUI's and a looming 3 game suspension does not warrant BM type money. He should have signed his tender, served his suspension and finished out the season and shown everyone that he's really worth that much and his DUI days are behind him. I realize a pro-players needs to get as much as they can now but in this case I think VJ was getting bad advice. I am sure a new VJ contract would have been guarnteed money heavy and I can't image anyone willing to throw that kind of money away should he screw up AGAIN. AJ did his job and to me the name calling and finger pointing from VJ and his agents is only proving AJ was right to hold his ground.

Was AJ right to not accept a 2nd rounder when the only likely other compensation he'll receive now would be a 3rd round compensatory pick?AJ should have matched the one year deal V-Jax was offered, or something close and got him back on the field <or> traded him for the second rounder... Now he only ends up with a 3rd rounder... at the end of the round.. If that...

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

VJax is worth more money - three times as much if you believe the reports - than the Chargers were willing to pay him. So he's holding out to be paid as such.What's AJ's angle here? How does not trading him make the Chargers better?

Can anyone give a reason why this non-deal makes sense for the Chargers? How does it make the team better.

 

[Carolina Hustler]

You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

VJax is worth more money - three times as much if you believe the reports - than the Chargers were willing to pay him. So he's holding out to be paid as such.What's AJ's angle here? How does not trading him make the Chargers better?

Can anyone give a reason why this non-deal makes sense for the Chargers? How does it make the team better.

Seems most are more distracted with defending AJ's honor then answering that question. It's been asked quite a few times now..

 

[Godsbrother]

You may disagree with one or both of their decisions, but neither is acting hypocritically.

VJax is worth more money - three times as much if you believe the reports - than the Chargers were willing to pay him. So he's holding out to be paid as such.What's AJ's angle here? How does not trading him make the Chargers better?

Can anyone give a reason why this non-deal makes sense for the Chargers? How does it make the team better.

It doesn't. AJ should have snatched the 2nd and gotten rid of the headache. On the other hand VJ should play the season out and grab the $3.3 million, proving that he is a knucklehead in more ways than one. I think the Chargers did the Vikings and Redskins a favor but not accepting their offers.

 

[Two Deep]

Article in the USA Today reads Jackson say's what Chargers are doing seems unethical and that he just wants to play football. Good for Smith, about time somebody plays hardball with these prima donnas. "I just want to play football" ; really........

 

[Godsbrother]

Article in the USA Today reads Jackson say's what Chargers are doing seems unethical and that he just wants to play football. Good for Smith, about time somebody plays hardball with these prima donnas. "I just want to play football" ; really........

Why can't Jackson return to the Chargers after he serves his suspension and play football? Won't Jackson be the one in breach of contract?