he played out his full 5 year contracthe was well within his rights to ask for a new contract or a trade if they wouldn't give it to him
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Any news on Vincent Jackson trade rumors? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Thumper
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Abrantes
Footballguy
Seems like a rather hazy benefit compared to the very tangible upside of a trade.
Max Power
Footballguy
Players generally dont demand trades if they are taken care of. This move did nothing for the Chargers future. Thats great if fans want to back their GM on this one, but from the outside looking in, it seems like a bonehead move. Players are still going to demand their money, thats just part of the game.
33 at a minimum
Wow............check out this quote from VJax agent:
The Chargers were unable to trade Vincent Jackson by Wednesday's 4ET deadline for Jackson to escape the team's Roster Exempt list, meaning he is officially now ineligible to play before Week 7.
Jackson's agent, Jonathan Feinsod, had a great quote about Chargers GM A.J. Smith after the unproductive proceedings: "Archie Manning had it right. They call him The Lord of No Rings for a reason." Trade talks could be revisited closer to the October 19 NFL deadline, but the chances just went way down that V-Jax will play a snap in 2010. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Vikings made "a last-ditch effort," but it fell on Smith's deaf ears. "It looks like (Jackson) could be sitting the entire season," added Schefter. Sep. 22 - 4:09 pm et
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
The Chargers were unable to trade Vincent Jackson by Wednesday's 4ET deadline for Jackson to escape the team's Roster Exempt list, meaning he is officially now ineligible to play before Week 7.
Jackson's agent, Jonathan Feinsod, had a great quote about Chargers GM A.J. Smith after the unproductive proceedings: "Archie Manning had it right. They call him The Lord of No Rings for a reason." Trade talks could be revisited closer to the October 19 NFL deadline, but the chances just went way down that V-Jax will play a snap in 2010. According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Vikings made "a last-ditch effort," but it fell on Smith's deaf ears. "It looks like (Jackson) could be sitting the entire season," added Schefter. Sep. 22 - 4:09 pm et
Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter
At that point it's no longer a tender.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
If it really goes down that the Chargers end up with nothing more than a compensatory pick (or less), I'll be unhappy with how the Chargers handled this.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Clearly his rights were still controlled by the Chargers. His agent may have convinced him otherwise but the Chargers were under no obligation to treat him as if he was an unrestricted free agent out of the goodness of their heart.
TenTimes
Backhoe Operator
I think I'm the only VJ owner who isn't absolutely pissed about this. But then I'm also the only one delusional enough to think when week 7 rolls around VJ bites the bullet, makes opposing DBs look like the JV for half a season in San Diego, pounds a few beers after their early playoff exit, and speeds away from SD to the fat contract he's looking for (under the influence).
nysportsfan
Footballguy
this needs more love
Gopher State
Footballguy
The San Diego Union-Tribune confirms that Vincent Jackson is "expected to sit out the remainder of the season" after losing an attempt to have his Roster Exempt status overturned on Wednesday.
"We had multiple deals in place," insisted Neil Schwartz, one of Jackson's agents. "It is our understanding from (other general managers) that the Chargers were unreasonable." Said Jackson, "My agents and teams interested did everything to make it happen, but this organization stopped it. I just want to play football. It feels unethical and I am disappointed."
Source: San Diego Union-Tribune
"We had multiple deals in place," insisted Neil Schwartz, one of Jackson's agents. "It is our understanding from (other general managers) that the Chargers were unreasonable." Said Jackson, "My agents and teams interested did everything to make it happen, but this organization stopped it. I just want to play football. It feels unethical and I am disappointed."
Source: San Diego Union-Tribune
Max Power
Footballguy
I mean I guess besides Vjax caving in and playing this year...what other options are there really? You can point to the new CBA and hope for the best, but that move stinks of desperation.
Take it up with your union who negotiated the terms of the labor agreement you are playing under.You had a chance to play football for $3m this year and turned it down. You don't just "want to play football". You want more money and want to not be held to the labor agreement the rest of the members of your union are held to.
nysportsfan
Footballguy
How anyone turns down that much money is beyond me. I don't care if it's less than market value or whatever, but in the end, I'll sign and play, because that's a lot of coin.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe a trade happens before the deadline, maybe they do a franchise tag and trade later, maybe he caves and plays some this year. We'll see.In other news Malcom Floyd missed practice today.
T Man
Footballguy
V Jax will play this season. He will come in and play to get his accrued season. And, I think he plays hard because he wants to maintain his value.
As for AJ, he may have overplayed his hand; but if his thinking is like what I have expressed, he probably thinks that VJAX over the last 6 games and hopefully the playoffs plus the compensatory pick would be better then trading him to a potential playoff team and the picks that were offered.
As for AJ, he may have overplayed his hand; but if his thinking is like what I have expressed, he probably thinks that VJAX over the last 6 games and hopefully the playoffs plus the compensatory pick would be better then trading him to a potential playoff team and the picks that were offered.
jurrassic
Footballguy
I picked up Jackson in one league and was hoping something was going to happen but I have to agree with this point.Take it up with your union who negotiated the terms of the labor agreement you are playing under.
You had a chance to play football for $3m this year and turned it down. You don't just "want to play football". You want more money and want to not be held to the labor agreement the rest of the members of your union are held to.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Devestating.
AJ being AJ is how they were able to get so much compensation for a 1st pick overall who claimed he would rather go to law school then play for the team and most recently how they were able to get a 2nd round pick for a third string quarterback. Cave to Jackson and you are inviting more players to holdout and lose credibility when it comes to negotiating compensation with other teams. Its all related. In the big picture 60+ slots of draft position in the 2nd-4th round is nothing.
geoff8695
Footballguy
Get ready to be dissapointed. VJ has already stated that he thought the negotiations on SD's part were "unethical", and now other GMs may be feeling like AJ didn't negotiate in good faith. VJ and his agent will now do everything in their power to stick it back to AJ. If that means reporting in week 7 and "dogging it", just to eliminate ANY possibility that he would be a restricted free agent next season, as well as making sure that there is NO WAY the Chargers can throw him into live action on gamedays where he could suffer an injury; then I believe they may even resort to that type of a dramatic response. This could get ugly...
Max Power
Footballguy
Youre talking about the guy who went on to win a Superbowl and be named MVP of that game? Or how about when he just let Brees walk to become the 2nd Superbowl MVP that was previously on a Chargers roster. Lets not just pick and choose his good moves and call this guy smart.Devestating.AJ being AJ is how they were able to get so much compensation for a 1st pick overall who claimed he would rather go to law school then play for the team and most recently how they were able to get a 2nd round pick for a third string quarterback. Cave to Jackson and you are inviting more players to holdout and lose credibility when it comes to negotiating compensation with other teams. Its all related. In the big picture 60+ slots of draft position in the 2nd-4th round is nothing.
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Gr00vus
Footballguy
Maybe I'll be disappointed, but I think you're being a bit overly dramatic here. I don't see how what A.J. did was unethical, and I frankly don't see how any other rational people would either. He played by the rules, stuck to his guns and is where he is. It might be stupid, but it's not unethical or in any way negotiating in bad faith. I mean he did exactly what he said he'd do the entire time - how the heck would that be negotiating in bad faith?Also I don't understand what you're saying about Jackson reporting in week 7 to stick it to the Chargers. Without further negotiations, he'd be playing for around $300,000. I don't think there's any way he plays for that amount, but assuming he did for a second what's the risk on the Chargers' end there? He obviously dogs it a few plays so they just run with the guys they're already running with and have him hand out gatorade the rest of the year? Yeah I guess it'd suck to burn a roster spot on him, so maybe they deactivate him every game day. If he reports at this point it's on the Chargers' terms - there's little to no downside for them in that area.
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yes it isthe CBA sets the MINIMUM for a TENDER of a particular level, not the max
sure, but clearly they shouldn't be surprised that their attempt to lowball him backfired
griff321
Footballguy
I love how Chargers fans feel like A.J. forcing VJax to holdout instead of getting a deal done will lay down the law to any other player thinking of holding out for a contract.
I highly doubt that.
I think in the future it'll just hurt your chances at signing FAs(not that AJ goes for FAs thing in the first place) or resigning promising rookies to long term deals. All you get in return for that is loosing your best receiver...but A.J. has someone able to step in and keep your team as a top contender right?
I guess I'll withhold my knee-jerk reaction because the man has put a division winning team on the field for the pas four years, but my feeling is that Archie was right.
I highly doubt that.
I think in the future it'll just hurt your chances at signing FAs(not that AJ goes for FAs thing in the first place) or resigning promising rookies to long term deals. All you get in return for that is loosing your best receiver...but A.J. has someone able to step in and keep your team as a top contender right?
I guess I'll withhold my knee-jerk reaction because the man has put a division winning team on the field for the pas four years, but my feeling is that Archie was right.
never going to happen
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Rivers+ other picks being better than Eli Manning isn't even the topic. The point is being a stubborn negotiator and being known as such have tangible benefits that are completely being dismissed by the sky is falling crowd. If his demands are consistently so unreasonable how the heck is he involved in so many trades every year?Youre talking about the guy who went on to win a Superbowl and be named MVP of that game? Or how about when he just let Brees walk to become the 2nd Superbowl MVP that was previously on a Chargers roster. Lets not just pick and choose his good moves and call this guy smart.Devestating.AJ being AJ is how they were able to get so much compensation for a 1st pick overall who claimed he would rather go to law school then play for the team and most recently how they were able to get a 2nd round pick for a third string quarterback. Cave to Jackson and you are inviting more players to holdout and lose credibility when it comes to negotiating compensation with other teams. Its all related. In the big picture 60+ slots of draft position in the 2nd-4th round is nothing.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I don't think they're surprised. More like mildly disappointed. Like I said earlier, I don't think he was in their long term plans anyway.
i'm not sure how you would construe getting a 2nd round pick as 'caving'
Gr00vus
Footballguy
I see it as A.J. having a set value for what he was willing to take in trade for Jackson and not diverging from it. I don't know that sending a message about being a tough negotiator was the primary focus here - everybody knew he's a pain in the ### to deal with already.
Max Power
Footballguy
I need a quick history lesson here then. Can you list a few? The only two that come to mind right away are Chambers and Cromartie. They overpaid for Chambers and washed at best with the Cromatrie trade.ETA: and obviously the Rivers/manning trade which SD made out very nicely on.Rivers+ other picks being better than Eli Manning isn't even the topic. The point is being a stubborn negotiator and being known as such have tangible benefits that are completely being dismissed by the sky is falling crowd. If his demands are consistently so unreasonable how the heck is he involved in so many trades every year?Youre talking about the guy who went on to win a Superbowl and be named MVP of that game? Or how about when he just let Brees walk to become the 2nd Superbowl MVP that was previously on a Chargers roster. Lets not just pick and choose his good moves and call this guy smart.Devestating.AJ being AJ is how they were able to get so much compensation for a 1st pick overall who claimed he would rather go to law school then play for the team and most recently how they were able to get a 2nd round pick for a third string quarterback. Cave to Jackson and you are inviting more players to holdout and lose credibility when it comes to negotiating compensation with other teams. Its all related. In the big picture 60+ slots of draft position in the 2nd-4th round is nothing.
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Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
It is when your public asking price is a 2nd and a 3rd. Who knows if he was actually offered a 2nd round pick anyway?
Canfora
he had a deal with the Vikes for $6 millionwhich isn't BM moneyVJax reportedly wanted Brandon Marshall type money, but when AJ Smith basically said "fine. Then I want Brandon Marshal type compensation in a trade." it's "unethical" and "unreasonable".
and now he gets at best a late 3rdbrilliant!
geoff8695
Footballguy
There are probably some generally accepted negotiation etiquettes amongst NFL GMs. I don't want to get too crazy with the mental gymnastics of trying to create/identify them. However, why waste everyone's time by allowing VJ to work out multiple deals with other teams and then not being willing to accept a generous offer that exceeds any future compensation SD is entitled to later. That borders on not negotiating in good faith.And in the process the relationship with VJ has been utterly destroyed. VJ had already indicated that he didn't want to risk his future value to injury by playing for peanuts in the present. Either he won't report at all, believing that he has enough time accrued to not have to worry about being a restricted free agent; or he might return the vindictiveness and spite that he feels he's been treated with, and stick it back to AJ by making sure that A) the Chargers can't possibly control him again in the future B) the Chargers don't get the benefit of his skills on the field in 2010 & C) that the Chargers get the bare minimum in compensation or no compensation at all after he leaves.VJ was so close to a one year deal with a new team that he could taste it. I don't think he will forgive and forget what AJ did to him today. Do you?
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Not seeing anything about in his nfl.com piece. Seems like VJ's agent is his source anyway. He would be inclined to exaggerate the proposed offer to try to make people forget he is likely the mastermind behind the failed power play.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
Just this year they made the deal to move up in the draft to get Matthews, and then traded up again to get Donald Butler. They just traded for Crayton a couple of weeks back. A.J.'s done several trades a year, every year it seems.
Seeing how he was going to miss almost 1/3 of the season this was about the same as recieving 9 million for a full season? Seems like plenty as the Vikings will probably be out of contenion by game 6 with or without him.he had a deal with the Vikes for $6 millionwhich isn't BM moneyVJax reportedly wanted Brandon Marshall type money, but when AJ Smith basically said "fine. Then I want Brandon Marshal type compensation in a trade." it's "unethical" and "unreasonable".
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Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
If Rivers was holding out the final year of his contract would you be happy with trading him for a mid 3rd round pick because that's better then what they would get via free agent compensation?Draft pick compensation sets only the very bottom level of what a GM should accept via a trade and thats it.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
No offense, but what are you talking about? Everyone seemed to know what Smith was asking for the all along - he didn't waste anybody's time as he had nothing to do with the "multiple deals with other teams." They wasted their own time negotiating with Jackson's agents without a deal in place with the Chargers.
I'm nowhere near as emotional about it as you seem to be. A.J. had his price, seemed like he made that price known, nobody met it, so no deal. That's how he does stuff. There's nothing to "forgive" him for. Jackson and his agents can act as vindictive as they want, but the worst that happens from the Chargers' perspective is he walks and they get no compensation. Sure that'd suck, but it's not the Count Of Monte Christo tragedy you're making it out to be - the Chargers will go on, as they did after Donnie Edwards left, Brees left, Tomlinson left, Williams left, so on and so forth.
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Max Power
Footballguy
Everyone trades in the draft. I was just curious what real trades he has made since one poster pointed out his "ability to make trades" demonstrates that he isn't unreasonable. Hes the only guy I can think of who fired a 14-2 coach. Im just saying from outside of charger land, the guy doesn't come off very well.
"What will it take to get Vincent Jackson from you?"
"A two and a three."
"How about just a two?"
"No."
"That's unethical!!!"
"A two and a three."
"How about just a two?"
"No."
"That's unethical!!!"
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goodoldalky
Footballguy
The point is that AJ lost his leverage in bargaining when he had destroyed the relationship with VJax and everyone in the league knows he can only get a late 3rd for him later. You're wasting your picks if you're going to send the guy two seconds in that situation. If AJ wants to play like that, every GM in the league is going to take a pass and let him take the late 3rd. And that's what happened.It doesn't matter what AJ Smith thinks he should get in return for Jackson in this situation. It only matters what he can get for him. Bad move for Smith and I wonder if this sets him back in accomplishing his goal of signing McNeill at this point...
Gr00vus
Footballguy
So trades during the draft don't count? :(He traded Whitehurst this offseason. He traded for McCardell midseason a few years back. Traded for Volek in 2006. Dealt friggin Sammy Davis to the 9ers. Dealt Cleo Lemon to the phins. Also dealt David Boston to the phins. Did that deal that sent Fonoti to the Vikings a few years back. I don't think he's got any problems making deals.
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Max Power
Footballguy
I'm assuming he is talking about this whole situation in general and not just today's events.As in, I'm not signed by company A, but I can't sign with company B for my market rate because the other company wont trade me for the going market asking price.
Mr. PadresLakers
Footballguy
Of course it matters what AJ Smith wants in return for Jackson. This isn't a bankruptcy auction. McNeil would be signed tomorrow if AJ Smith met his contract demands. One has nothing to do with the other. If anything its now clear to McNeil that hoping for a trade without suitable compensation is not going to happen.
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Why is a late 3rd the best case scenario?
David Dodds
Administrator
Not many people get to have multiple DUIs in a year and then expect to get a raise from their employer. That's the piece that is somewhat forgotten here. Vjax has not been the model citizen in San Diego. There is no long-term NFL contract in place so people much more worthy than VJax have had to remain in limbo this season. Vjax struck at a time when it was obvious the Chargers were not going to offer him a long-term deal. They likely have no interest in him after this contract, but aren't even going to state that as a definite until they know what labor deal is in place.
The Chargers offered VJax $3M for this season.
VJax and his agent scoffed at that number and threatened to hold out for the whole year. And that is where this has been for a long-time. Was what was offered fair knowing that VJax won't play for the Chargers this year? Yes, probably. But maybe AJ believes VJax will indeed play for the Chargers. I doubt VJax has a better job opportunity elsewhere.
The Chargers offered VJax $3M for this season.
VJax and his agent scoffed at that number and threatened to hold out for the whole year. And that is where this has been for a long-time. Was what was offered fair knowing that VJax won't play for the Chargers this year? Yes, probably. But maybe AJ believes VJax will indeed play for the Chargers. I doubt VJax has a better job opportunity elsewhere.
fatness
Footballguy
I don't see any reason to believe that it would affect another player's contact and playing status.
It's more likely that you're inviting other players to avoid going to SD.
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