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Anybody feel guilty about rostering Mike Vick? (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter LawFitz
- Start date
kinglochness
Footballguy
I can totally see where you are coming from. However, my personal opinion is that I'm not having the guy over for dinner with my family. He's not babysitting for me. He's just winning me fantasy football games (I hope). I think that might be taking fantasy football a little too seriously (I know a lot of you think there's no such thing). Do you really think he cares how many fantasy rosters he is on anyway? And there is something to be said for paying his debt to society. Also, does he get any points for the way he handled the situation with Kolb? Many other backups would be screaming from the highest mountain "I SHOULD BE STARTING. I'M BETTER THAN HIM."
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
Mike Vick is obviously despicable for what he did, but the man served his time and paid his debt to society. Is it completely impossible that he has actually changed?
That said, even if he hasn't changed and he is still an evil SOB I wouldn't think twice about rostering him if I thought it helped me win. Fantasy football is a business and you can't think with your heart if you want to be successful. If I did I would have a roster full of Chicago Bears and I would never dream of drafting the likes of Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers, etc
That said, even if he hasn't changed and he is still an evil SOB I wouldn't think twice about rostering him if I thought it helped me win. Fantasy football is a business and you can't think with your heart if you want to be successful. If I did I would have a roster full of Chicago Bears and I would never dream of drafting the likes of Adrian Peterson, Aaron Rodgers, etc
azgroover
Footballguy
Do you guys thoroughly vet every player you consider drafting? Seems a little short-sighted, lazy and irresponsible to limit it just to those who have been caught.
Great money making opp. for someone to come up with a fantasy combine where every dork in America with a cheat sheet can interrogate potential draftees for any off-field problems that the government and/or NFL may have overlooked.
Great money making opp. for someone to come up with a fantasy combine where every dork in America with a cheat sheet can interrogate potential draftees for any off-field problems that the government and/or NFL may have overlooked.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Hell no, he doesn't get any points for this.It just so happens that right now, the "me first" thing happens to coincide with the "good teammate" thing.The worst thing that could happen for Vick right now would be to remain the starting QB. He's played enough, and well enough, that he'll be commanding big money starter's wages for some team next year. The only things that could POSSIBLY jeapordize that would be if he got injured, if he proved to be huge locker room cancer, or if he killed some more dogs. Verbally backing Kolb keeps him in the media's good graces while keeping his body nice and safe for the upcoming payday. Not that this is a slam on him. Just that I don't think he deserves any special props for being the good teammate. It's easy to be the good teammate when doing so is in your own self interests as well.
Happy Ragnarok
Footballguy
Kool-Aid Larry
Footballguy
so, you basically treat everybody like child rapists because for all you know they might be --- perfectly sensible.on the other hand, once I actually find out somebody's a child rapist is when I usually downgrade my opinion of them, but I'm probably the crazy one.
I guess what I should be doing right now is purging my roster of all players because a rapist was discovered in the league, therefore all men are rapists --- sorry, potential rapists.
The_Wolfman
Footballguy
Not sure what's funny about that, we play for a lot of money in my league. People literally make a living off fantasy football, it most definitely is a business.
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Dag nabbit, I got Vick and Forte on the same team in one of my leagues. I'd probably have to pay everyone's entry fee if I was in your league.
AngryGorilla
Footballguy
dropped Vick for Tolbert this morning, now i feel stupid. Got Roethlisberger waiting in the wings....talk about dealing w/ the devil... here to win, not play who i like from a moral stand point.
hate that this came out on tuesday, instead of after Vick's commanding, winning performance...:middlefinger: Andy Reid
hate that this came out on tuesday, instead of after Vick's commanding, winning performance...:middlefinger: Andy Reid
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Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Is this really turning into the hour of power?
I respect those that want nothing to do with him but he paid and served his debt to society.
I respect those that want nothing to do with him but he paid and served his debt to society.
purestrength
Footballguy
Good posting by Kool-Aid Larry.Hipple seems to dig himself into a deeper hole with every pro-Vick post.I bet if that scumbag animal killer ordered Hipple to carry his used jock, he'd reply, "Just one, Mr. Vick?"
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footballnerd
Footballguy
you will lose if you pick players based on emotions.
aimlessgun
Footballguy
You would only feel guilty about rostering Vick if you actually rooted for the guys on your fantasy roster: that is, you felt that your emotions and thoughts had some effect on outcomes.
But you have zero effect on outcomes. Rostering and starting Vick does not support him in any way, and you don't even have to root for players you start: people will generate the stats they generate. You're just dispassionately picking guys who you think will generate the best stats. If I start Vick it doesn't mean I want him to do well, because what I want matters zilch. It only means that I think he will produce stats.
But you have zero effect on outcomes. Rostering and starting Vick does not support him in any way, and you don't even have to root for players you start: people will generate the stats they generate. You're just dispassionately picking guys who you think will generate the best stats. If I start Vick it doesn't mean I want him to do well, because what I want matters zilch. It only means that I think he will produce stats.
Peeps Inc.
Footballguy
Whoa i dunno that guy is a damn maniac
Neil Beaufort Zod
Footballguy
The people who make a living off fantasy football are few and far between. Let's say the winner in your league makes $5,000. If you spend a couple of hours a day on fantasy football during the season (not unrealistic), that's 224 hours. If you did the same preparing for your draft/auction, that's another 112 hours in a couple of months prior to the season. Now, in the offseason let's say you do some research/keep up with free agency/draft, etc. Let's say six hours a week for 20 weeks. That's a total of 456 hours. If we assume you put in $500 as an entry fee, you made less than $10 an hour at fantasy football IF you win your league and IF the payout is $5000 to the winner.Assuming all those things, if you're so good that you win your league every three years like clockwork...you're making $3 and change per hour playing fantasy football.Maybe you play for more money and can do it in less time. Those are rough estimates. But unless you win your league all the time, it's not much of a business. It's a hobby. You can make money at it, but it's not really a business unless you sell something related to fantasy football. But if your point is that, with thousands of dollars on the line you can't afford to get too moral with your players, I concede it.Not sure what's funny about that, we play for a lot of money in my league. People literally make a living off fantasy football, it most definitely is a business.
Light Blue Jesus
Footballguy
I'm not making a connection that seems to be self-evident with some. I'm failing to realize why this would matter. What impact is made by refusing to roster someone? I certainly don't think Mike Vick is losing any sleep over your moral conundrum. How could anyone be so egocentric to think their fantasy football roster is a worthwhile forum for and viewed upon as a means of social commentary?
That's giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt. God forbid this was just an excuse to talk about our feelings and emotions.
That's giving the original poster the benefit of the doubt. God forbid this was just an excuse to talk about our feelings and emotions.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I didn't say nobodies a bad person. In fact I said quite the opposite. We are ALL bad people (well most of us anyway) in some way or another. Some more than others, but deep down you know the bad things you've done at your worst moments. Especially when yo were a 'kid'. But most don't have the media attention and exposure of a guy like Vick. Now imagine when you were your wildest and craziest someone threw 100 million at you. I'm not condoning the behavior, but I understand. Leonard Little and Stallworth have KILLED people and not only served less time, but get 1% of the public scorn. And his good qualities would be his large amount of charitable involvements, his taking care of those he grew up with (which in many ways led to his fall from grace). He could have walked from his punishment and just done the 'i served my time bit', Instead he has been extremely active with PETA and animal rescue groups in Philadelphia. I mean he served his time, has changed his behavior (was at a event where things started going bad and he left when the trouble was brewing) and he seems to have learned the kind of life lessons that you think about when you sit in jail for a year. If you TRULY believe in your christian ideal of redemption, then for you to JUDGE him still so vehemently years after the fact, and after having done positive things, then you are
kind of ignoring that 'turn the other cheek/hate the sin love the sinner thing aren't you?
how many are you rostering ___________ for moral reasons have there been in the history of this board? And yes. To many people there is very little difference in the moral wrongness of hunting animals/fishing (whether for fish, whales, dolphins, seals etc) and dog fighting.
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LawFitz
Footballguy
Ha, nice back hand.This is not about my roster. It's not about making a statement to Mike Vick or anyone else. It's simply about feeling like a hypocrite and a traitor of sorts if I win anything with Vick on my team. It's a personal issue and I've acknowledged that already. So yes, this thread is about emotions.Unlike the "businessmen" in this thread, I treat this as a game; one with significant emotional attachment at times. I'm not sure that I'd never roster Mike Vick again. But I am sure that if I do, there will be a price to pay in my own mind and conscience that has nothing to do with fantasy stats or championships. And I'm not sure that price is worth it. I think that was the main point I was trying to make.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
Good posting by Kool-Aid Larry.Hipple seems to dig himself into a deeper hole with every pro-Vick post.I bet if that scumbag animal killer ordered Hipple to carry his used jock, he'd reply, "Just one, Mr. Vick?"
1/10. You gotta bring it harder than that...
LawFitz
Footballguy
Not a fair comp. Little and Stallworth are guilty of being stupid and irresponsible. Vick is guilty of being cruel and unusual.Intent is the key difference. Neither Little nor Stallworth was trying to kill anyone. It doesn't excuse their actions, but makes them a lot easier to understand.
Hipple Long Ware & Peete
Footballguy
I think you are mixing megaphones there...To be fair, rural blacks in the south feel a helluva lot differently towards mastiffs and pitbulls as a culture. Might be because they were sic'd on them through the 50's and 60's. Dog fighting has a long history in the south. And like I said above, the only way to differentiate this from Bullfighting/cockfighting (both leagl in many places in the world) is because we domesticated one of the animals as pets.
radballs
Footballguy
Exactly! Sorry, but people are more important than pets. Homicide should be held on a much higher offense level than anything that can be done to man's best friend.
radballs
Footballguy
That's pretty weak. Either make the donation or don't. Shouldn't be dependent on his performance. And this screams of "look at me".No offense.
radballs
Footballguy
No kidding. Nazi commissioners are my favorite.
LawFitz
Footballguy
To be fair, many middle eastern cultures treat women like property and have completely overlooked domestic abuse for centuries. In fact, it's perfectly legal to not only marry multiple women, but also to beat the snot out of them if they don't like it. Perfectly fair, according to your logic.
radballs
Footballguy
You're kidding right? Ridiculous argument. It doesn't even matter about intent. Whoever controls the loss of a human life in whatever manner is someone I'll have much more disdain for than for someone that did what Vick did. And if you want to break it down further, what other animals (if any in your opinion) should be valued more than humans. If someone swats a fly and kills it, are we getting close? What about a squirrel or a cat that gets ran over in the road? A cat is close to a dog for a lot of people. Where are you drawing the line here? Sorry, but people, and people that have caused transgressions against said people are infinitely more "evil" than anything you can do to an animal, imo.
LawFitz
Footballguy
You throw out the term "ridiculous" too easily. If I'm judging whether or not someone is a "bad" person based on their actions, you better believe intent matters. Drinking and driving is idiotic and irresponsible and anyone who kills someone doing it should be held accountable. But is it the same as taking a knife to someone's throat? Definitely not. I won't get into the human vs animal issue. All life has value and anyone who is able to kill and maim without necessity or remorse (Vick may or may not have it now, but he sure didn't have it then) is not a good person in my book.
footballnerd
Footballguy
Actually, I do choose players based on their behavior along with their talent. But the behavior factor I look for is if the player will do something to lose PT. If they have a bad attitude that will get them suspended or a bad work ethic that will make them unfavorable with the coach, I would pass on them for a more favorable player even if they had talent. Vick on the other hand seems to have put his past troubles behind him and genuinely looks to want to make something of himself in the league, and so I'm confident he will stay out of trouble, and definitely out of dog fighting, and be productive this season.
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HairySasquatch
Footballguy
Lame.....I would not be playing in your league after you did that.
The Great Snook
Footballguy
I'd feel much better about having him on my team if he had trained and killed cats instead of dogs.
pghrob
Footballguy
Playing fantasy football to win is likely best done using your rational, objective mind - set free from the nagging constraints of a subjective moral compass. If Vick (or any other player with questionable character traits) is eligible you play them if you think they are the key to winning.
Vick is not Rae Caruth. Good lord, how can that even pop into someone's head. I would put him even below the Braylon Edwards shame list at this point.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
Vick is not Rae Caruth. Good lord, how can that even pop into someone's head. I would put him even below the Braylon Edwards shame list at this point.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
Vick is not Rae Caruth. Good lord, how can that even pop into someone's head. I would put him even below the Braylon Edwards shame list at this point.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
Don't get me wrong, what Vick did was awful and he deserved (probably more than) the punishment he got. However, a human life and a dog's life are very different things. Braylon Edwards easily could have been responsible for 3 or more human deaths by his choice to drive drunk.
matuski
Footballguy
Buc813life
Footballguy
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
I wouldn't roster him.....no matter what. I would roster Brian Brohm before I would Vick. Fantasy Football is fun but it isn't that important to me that I would dirty myself with him.
My favorite team is whoever is playing the Eagles that week and my favorite player in the league is the guy who was the last to hit Vick. I never have wished for a player to get hurt before but I just made an exception to that.
My favorite team is whoever is playing the Eagles that week and my favorite player in the league is the guy who was the last to hit Vick. I never have wished for a player to get hurt before but I just made an exception to that.
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
Edwards is an idiot but no one got hurt and he didn't intend to hurt anyone. Vick was engaged in the torture of innocent animals that couldn't fight back and most likely loved him. The evil intent and malice that Vick demostrated is far different.
meanjoegreen
Footballguy
Neither intended to kill anyone, but Vick did intentionally kill those dogs. I'm surprised you would use Little and Stallworth as examples since you make a living off defending drunk drivers.
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
Well said
Tillmanisahero
Footballguy
Mercy killings? You must be joking. He tortured those dogs before he killed them. Mercy killing would be shooting them in the head or lethal injection...not like he couldn't afford it.
