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Applauding a new cop in post #180 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
Scoresman
Footballguy
It's the way that's the safest for everyone involved, including the cop, the kid in the car and the other people in the area.
What if she was shaking her arms loose because she had a knife or gun hidden in her shirt she was trying to grab?
Getting the suspect on the ground is a pretty standard way of immobilizing them enough to get the cuffs on.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
No shtick/humor intended, title of the thread speaks my opinion... my last comment is factual - He is an American doing the work of a hero
timschochet
Footballguy
I think a Congressional Medal of Honor would be appropriate.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
This cop was a ########.http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-knocks-dwi-suspect-pavement-takedown-article-1.2195679
Maybe don't drive drunk with your little kid in the car and this wouldn't happen
Not condoning DUIs, with or without kids, but the amount of force used here was dangerously excessive.
RedmondLonghorn
Footballguy
If you really believe that, then you are a ####### mongoloid.No shtick/humor intended, title of the thread speaks my opinion... my last comment is factual - He is an American doing the work of a hero
timschochet
Footballguy
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I think that was a little excessive, but I'm not shedding any tears for that POS. Unfortunate the daughter had to see it, but her mother put her in that position by having her with her while she was driving drunk in the first place.
I'm going to go ahead and stop short of calling the cop a "hero" though.
I'm going to go ahead and stop short of calling the cop a "hero" though.
Mr.Pack
Footballguy
NCCommish
Footballguy
And some of you need to understand that every time you applaud excessive force you make it more acceptable to happen to someone you don't think poorly of, like say your kid.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
It looked excessive. As soon as he made a move it looked like she was going down immediately and unable to stop the fall. The goal was already met before she was half way down. It looks like he may have continued applying additional (excessive) downward force. That is more than was necessary to get her down. It seems excessive to me, in a common sense kinda way but for all I know the police may be trained to do it that way.
ETA: I do not know what legal standards define "excessive force" and that's not what I'm talking about.
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Scoresman
Footballguy
This is getting too nitpicky. Questioning whether or not he applied too much downward force on the way down is not productive, nor provable. She resisted, he got her on the ground. Period. That's what the cops do when you resist arrest in order to get the cuffs on you.
There are much better, recent examples for the anti-police crowd to rally behind than this one.
SWC
Bromigo
hey brohans you read the article she jerked her arm so she gets a face plant and brain injury if she would have moved her leg then the cop could have cut her arm off with a sword and if she tried to run then the cop would be well within his rights to throw her in a wood chipper and handcuff whatever came out the minute you do something that someone else says is resisting arrest you automatically are guilty and have no rights i do not believe this at all but i just wanted to get in on the crazy in this thread take that to the bank bromigos
bentley
Footballguy
There's no better job in the world if you're in to mild thuggery and violating civil rights.
SWC
Bromigo
hey man i said right in there that i do not beleive it and was just being dumb i guess i am sorry i was not more clear bromigo
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
I'm not going to get all Zupruder film on it, I just think he went to push her down and from a combination of pushing too hard and perhaps her being shaky on her feet (witnesses said she was stumbling drunk, etc.) she dropped like a bag of dirt. I don't think there's like a second point where he continues to push her down or anything like that. She resisted, he went to take her to the ground, and it ended up slamming her down in an excessive manner. But like I said, probably not helped by the fact she's falling down drunk.
I'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and very little sympathy for her, but let's just try and do a little better next time.
Tennessee_ATO
Footballguy
Seems like lots of people don't understand the analysis for determining whether the use of force was appropriate or excessive. Appropriate use of force is generally defined as the "minimum amount of force required to compel compliance". Anything beyond that is "excessive". That part really isn't complicated. The amount of force he used was, quite plainly, excessive. No one can rationally argue that he couldn't have compelled compliance without the hip-toss face plant.
Where it gets more complicated is police officers are allowed to be wrong within reason. They essentially get a free pass if they can demonstrate that a reasonably trained officer facing those circumstances would have objectively thought that the amount of force used was necessary. Police officers don't have to be emotionless robots, but the standard by which we look back and judge their conduct is devoid of emotion. Is this guy going to be excused for being wrong? Dunno, depends on the jury I guess (assuming that ever happens).
Nowhere in the analysis is there a discussion about whether the suspect is a good person, is innocent, is a piece of crap, is guilty, etc. Because that generally doesn't matter (within reason -- a murder suspect isn't generally expected to be treated the same as a DUI suspect, for example, because the murder suspect reasonably carries a greater threat of violence). This chick was 120 soaking wet and certainly presented no meaningful threat of harm to the officer or anyone else at that particular moment. She wasn't going to be driving off whether he wrestled with her for another 30 seconds or not.
My sense is that this video isn't going to be used in training to demonstrate the proper application of the use of force continuum. If it's used for anything, it will be to show what not to do.
The guy sure ain't a hero.
Where it gets more complicated is police officers are allowed to be wrong within reason. They essentially get a free pass if they can demonstrate that a reasonably trained officer facing those circumstances would have objectively thought that the amount of force used was necessary. Police officers don't have to be emotionless robots, but the standard by which we look back and judge their conduct is devoid of emotion. Is this guy going to be excused for being wrong? Dunno, depends on the jury I guess (assuming that ever happens).
Nowhere in the analysis is there a discussion about whether the suspect is a good person, is innocent, is a piece of crap, is guilty, etc. Because that generally doesn't matter (within reason -- a murder suspect isn't generally expected to be treated the same as a DUI suspect, for example, because the murder suspect reasonably carries a greater threat of violence). This chick was 120 soaking wet and certainly presented no meaningful threat of harm to the officer or anyone else at that particular moment. She wasn't going to be driving off whether he wrestled with her for another 30 seconds or not.
My sense is that this video isn't going to be used in training to demonstrate the proper application of the use of force continuum. If it's used for anything, it will be to show what not to do.
The guy sure ain't a hero.
Van Dyman
Footballguy
That's not nitpicky. I took expressed an opinion and explained the basis for that opinion, as well as a reasonable question about their training. If they are actually trained to pound the perp onto the ground as hard as possible then it wasn't technically excessive. If the action is designed only to get her onto the ground, then any additional force beyond that goal is excessive.
Regarding unprovable, I would think that modern video analysts can determine the amount and direction of force applied by the officer, as well as how much was applied at which points in the action. It's not my field, so I'm guessing but it seems doable.
Ditka Butkus
Footballguy
Who cares, she is white.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
RedmondLonghorn said:If you really believe that, then you are a ####### mongoloid.fantasycurse42 said:No shtick/humor intended, title of the thread speaks my opinion... my last comment is factual - He is an American doing the work of a heroRedmondLonghorn said:
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I've been called worse
The mother of the year got what she deserved... i enjoyed the video and I'm glad she received a face full of pavement.
The mother of the year got what she deserved... i enjoyed the video and I'm glad she received a face full of pavement.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
No one mentions the fact that the when you are drunk you fall harder and can get knocked out easier. I am sure that played a role in it too.
spOOfy
Footballguy
This does seem a little excessive, especially after watching the dash cam video. He says she is resisting, and she says she's not, she just doesn't want her kid to see her [garbled, I assume saying being arrested or something like that], just before he throws her to the ground. But according to witness, she was trying to pull her arms away from him repeatedly (and he says the same thing in the dash cam). Her being fall down drunk probably didn't help with the fall.
Still, I'm not really shedding any tears for her.
Still, I'm not really shedding any tears for her.
Scoresman
Footballguy
The video is clear, you can see her swaying from side to side trying to get her hands free before he dropped her. He was also giving her verbal warnings to stop doing that. She refused. Getting taken to the ground to be secured is a consequence of choosing to resist.
Jack White
Footballguy
Clifford
Footballguy
Heard. Not a monster, but did take it a step too far IMO. And honestly I blame the training, not the cop.
Jack White
Footballguy
What did this coproach do to lose his HERO status?
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Glad this one was caught on video, otherwise I'm sure there would be outrage too:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/conn-teen-holds-police-officer-headlock-article-1.2197437
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/conn-teen-holds-police-officer-headlock-article-1.2197437
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I think the police officer used a tad too much force. Not overly excessive, but maybe just a smidgen too much force.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Would've had no issue if he would've reached into his holster and shot the kid during their struggle. All shtick aside, this guy had a lot of restraint in this situation.
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Scoresman
Footballguy
Agree, the way he was hunched over like that while trying to get up is sure to lead to future back problems for the dude who had him in the headlock. He's the real victim here.
cstu
Footballguy
J'approve.http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/texas-knocks-dwi-suspect-pavement-takedown-article-1.2195679
Maybe don't drive drunk with your little kid in the car and this wouldn't happen
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
I just feel like he could have figured out a way to subdue the guy without hurting him. I realize the cop was also being attacked, but I hold cops to a higher standard.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
I agree with the girl yelling, besides fighting the officer and putting him in a headlock, he ain't do nothin.
Clifford
Footballguy
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