Is it Vinny Cerrato that's the creative one there these days?He used to be pretty fun to email when he was over at ESPN. ALways gave an interesting reponse
Even with the big jump in the cap this year, that's a LOT of $$$ for any safety, much less one that's not among the league's best.
And HOW DO THE SKINS KEEP AFFORDING THESE GUYS!?!??
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Archuleta Signs with the Redskins (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter CheeseHead
- Start date
Aaronstory
Footballguy
Profootballtalk.com has agood explanation...
Even with the big jump in the cap this year, that's a LOT of $$$ for any safety, much less one that's not among the league's best.
And HOW DO THE SKINS KEEP AFFORDING THESE GUYS!?!??
Deranged Hermit
Not cool & Pissed
ARE maybe was the best FA WR THIS year but this year's crop of FA WR was incredibly weak. One of the worst in recent memory.ARE is a number 3 WR at best. His only value (IMO) is his ability to run gimmick plays and to run back kicks. He's not worth all that coin to do that.
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jsargos
Footballguy
Or if you paid attention to the actual facts you'd know that the stories of the Skins have to field 20 rookies were complete BS. Maybe they wouldn't be able to bring in all of the guys that are now, but guess what? That's true of every other team in the league as well. The players are getting more money because $320,000,000 was just added to the pool.
ExaltedOne
Footballguy
I guess that depends on your point of view. If you value great special teams and think that a versatile player on offense is important and/or you think it's important to have a young, talented slot receiver, then maybe it is worth it. I think the Redskins talent decisions have improved over the last couple of years (see Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, Phillip Daniels, etc.) so I tend to trust their judgement.
ARE is a number 3 WR at best. His only value (IMO) is his ability to run gimmick plays and to run back kicks. He's not worth all that coin to do that.
Remember, people were talking about how good of a fit Randle El would be as the #2 in Chicago and last year we were all excited about him getting a chance to start for the Steelers. If he can start for them, he can certainly fulfill his role as the slot receiver in Washington.
As long as he is successful in that job, he's worth every penny.
So if ARE had signed with DA Bears, it would have been a GREAT signing, but since he signed with the Redskins it wasn't. OK, I get it.I guess that depends on your point of view. If you value great special teams and think that a versatile player on offense is important and/or you think it's important to have a young, talented slot receiver, then maybe it is worth it. I think the Redskins talent decisions have improved over the last couple of years (see Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, Phillip Daniels, etc.) so I tend to trust their judgement.
ARE is a number 3 WR at best. His only value (IMO) is his ability to run gimmick plays and to run back kicks. He's not worth all that coin to do that.
Remember, people were talking about how good of a fit Randle El would be as the #2 in Chicago and last year we were all excited about him getting a chance to start for the Steelers. If he can start for them, he can certainly fulfill his role as the slot receiver in Washington.
As long as he is successful in that job, he's worth every penny.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Uh, so let me know when someone becomes the highest paid QB in history this season, or when someone becomes the highest paid WR in history, or the highest paid CB in history...Yeah contracts are going to be larger and larger so the probability of the largest contract is higher, but usually you're talking about one of the top 3 or 4 guys at that position. Archuleta was probably the best safety available in FA, but I don't think that he's one of the top 3 or 4 safeties in the game.Every offseason, someone's going to become the highest paid at their position in NFL history.Apparently that makes him the highest paid safety in NFL history.
fatness
Footballguy
Return with me now to those thrilling days of yesteryear. A year ago, specifically. Santana Moss was "nowhere near worth the outrageous money the Redskins threw at him."
What fools those Redskins were.
Contrary to what many people are in effect saying, a player's worth does not go down when his contract amount goes up.
What fools those Redskins were.
Contrary to what many people are in effect saying, a player's worth does not go down when his contract amount goes up.
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fatness
Footballguy
It's not just you. I'd say over 50% of the people on this board believed all that information, which turned out to be crap. None of the sportswriters saying that stuff have come out and said "hmmm, I was wrong, maybe I better figure out how they do this." But people on this board are smarter than that and are figuring it out. They had between 11 and 13 contracts with veterans renegotiated to lower their cap number, got rid of Arrington, and would have cut the same 5 guys they have already cut, for not performing well enough. They're also going to trade Ramsey. That was their plan to get under the lower cap had there been no new CBA, and they planned to concentrate on rookies instead of free agents.
"Not enough money to field a full roster" was just a story by lazy journalists playing into "what everybody already knows." Buy into it if you want, but it's dead wrong.
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Gigantomachia
Footballguy
Koya
Footballguy
As a Giants fan, I can hardly wait until Gibbs leaves again. Without his astounding presence, Snyder will have no check on his desires to go roto style.
The Skins will be competitive as long as Gibbs is there. Afterward, it could get ugly... especially if/when there is a rebuilding period due to the cap.
The Skins will be competitive as long as Gibbs is there. Afterward, it could get ugly... especially if/when there is a rebuilding period due to the cap.
I love Archuleta and think this will be a great signing for the Redskins if he can stay healthy. When playing at full strength, he's one of the best strong safeties in the game and will be a great weapon in Gregg Williams' aggressive defense. His health is definitely a concern though, and they might regret giving him that much guaranteed money if his back problems recur.
redman
Footballguy
What year is this anyway?Snyder is an idiot! He probably doesn't even look at the financials for average safeties in the league. He just thinks up some lofty number that will lure the guy and gives it to him. Pretty soon all the FA's are gonna only wanna play for the Redskins because they know they'll get a fat contract and not have to do anything else for the rest of their careers. I feel sorry for the fans that are gonna have to pay the price when he puts that team in salary cap hell.
And HOW DO THE SKINS KEEP AFFORDING THESE GUYS!?!??
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
I don't think I've ever laughed harder in my life. 5 mil per plus a 10 mil bonus for one of the most one-dimentional safetys in the game?
Further proof that the Redskins are the Mets of the NFL: They're just like the Yankees, minus that whole "winning ballgames" thing that the Yanks seem to do a lot.
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
Arch couldn't cover a pillow, much less a reciever or tight end. Arch is a good blitzer when healthy and isn't playing tenative like he was last season. However, you need to have a good cover safety if you're gonna have Arch playing back there. He may do fine for all I know, since Taylor is good in coverage (at least he was in college).
which is exactly why this should be a great fit. helps to have the best coverage free safety in the game (Sean Taylor) playing behind him. I'm assuming Archuleta will basically play up in the box like a 4th LB most of the time.
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MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
And you can't deny that the Skins corners (Springs/Rogers) are much, much better than the bums the Rams had last year at CB. Arch now can go back to being the Lynch-type safety he was expected to be coming out of college and worry less about having to help cover the pass.I hope he succeeds. Good guy and a freak of an athlete. He just didn't fit the Rams sceheme of things because he was relied on too much to cover. I know Haslett will do different things than Marmie did, though, and I think the Rams got a more than suitable replacement in Chavous, who can also cover a bit in addition to being a good tackler.which is exactly why this should be a great fit. helps to have the best coverage free safety in the game (Sean Taylor) playing behind him. I'm assuming Archuleta will basically play up in the box like a 4th LB most of the time.
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cstu
Footballguy
Snyder is an idiot! He probably doesn't even look at the financials for average safeties in the league. He just thinks up some lofty number that will lure the guy and gives it to him. Pretty soon all the FA's are gonna only wanna play for the Redskins because they know they'll get a fat contract and not have to do anything else for the rest of their careers. I feel sorry for the fans that are gonna have to pay the price when he puts that team in salary cap hell.
And HOW DO THE SKINS KEEP AFFORDING THESE GUYS!?!??
MrPhoenix
Ron Paul Soldier
I'm just imagining seeing Dan Snyder, Clinton Portis, Chris Samuels, and Mark Brunell on a "Redskins-sponsored" telethon for "charity"."Just $1,000 can help keep a person out of bankruptcy....."Snyder is an idiot! He probably doesn't even look at the financials for average safeties in the league. He just thinks up some lofty number that will lure the guy and gives it to him. Pretty soon all the FA's are gonna only wanna play for the Redskins because they know they'll get a fat contract and not have to do anything else for the rest of their careers. I feel sorry for the fans that are gonna have to pay the price when he puts that team in salary cap hell.
And HOW DO THE SKINS KEEP AFFORDING THESE GUYS!?!??
Bob Magaw
Footballguy
the analogy breaks down in that roy is a very good open field tackler, unlike archuleta... i'm of the opinion he can be very effective if schemed right, like lovie smith did when he was rams DC & marmie (unsurprisingly), failed miserably at last two seasons...there can't be many SSs capable of running a 4.4 (or better) 40...
he has averaged about 3 sacks per year in his five year career, which i think is #1 among DBs in that span...
as others are noted, he is solid as an in-the-box safety...
he is a weak-link in coverage & can't be asked to do that (they are fine as long as taylor is in center-field... he might be best in business in getting to sideline from the deep middle)...
and in recent years, he wasn't a very competent open field tackler... he is prone to take bad angles in space & whiffs way too often given that he seems to have good athleticism with excellent measureables... i have some questions about how instinctive he is...
you have to assume the medical staff vetted his back, which STL thought could jeapordize his career as recently as 2004... it does seem like a lot of money to pay given potential risk...
in case it sounds like i am excessively down on him, he is capable of making an impact if williams turns him loose to do what he does best & doesn't ask him to do what he is incapable of... i expect this to happen...
he is not imo in the upper echelon safeties if you are talking about ed reed, roy williams, & a young darren sharper & brian dawkins... but that is the rub... he is young & dawkins & sharper aren't...
for youn SSs, adrian wilson & troy polamalu are in vanguard... personally, i think a guy like michael boulware, who is somewhat unproven but has compelling athleticism & upside, is a better prospect...
* arch was #2 in tackles among DBs in 2002, & led all DBs in sacks in 2003... 2004 he was plagued with disc injury... 2005?
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ExaltedOne
Footballguy
That's my point. It doesn't make sense but that seems to be the mindset here. He went from being the best receiver on the market to a scrub not worth anything just by signing with the most loved/hated team (or at least front office) in the NFL.So if ARE had signed with DA Bears, it would have been a GREAT signing, but since he signed with the Redskins it wasn't. OK, I get it.I guess that depends on your point of view. If you value great special teams and think that a versatile player on offense is important and/or you think it's important to have a young, talented slot receiver, then maybe it is worth it. I think the Redskins talent decisions have improved over the last couple of years (see Santana Moss, Clinton Portis, Chris Cooley, Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Carlos Rogers, Sean Taylor, Phillip Daniels, etc.) so I tend to trust their judgement.
ARE is a number 3 WR at best. His only value (IMO) is his ability to run gimmick plays and to run back kicks. He's not worth all that coin to do that.
Remember, people were talking about how good of a fit Randle El would be as the #2 in Chicago and last year we were all excited about him getting a chance to start for the Steelers. If he can start for them, he can certainly fulfill his role as the slot receiver in Washington.
As long as he is successful in that job, he's worth every penny.
DaWidowMaker
Footballguy
Archuleta was not a very good signing but I can see Daniel Snyder's thinking on this (couldn't this contract have signed Milloy though?). He manages the salary cap very well and other teams should take notes if the Skins start winning Super Bowls. However, earlier this season I saw LT put a move on Adam that I thought tore his ACL.
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Csonka4life
Footballguy
I think Archuleta has photos of Snyder getting it on with the ghost of J Edgar Hoover, otherwise this signing makes no sense. He is nothing more than a good player, not an allstar..........
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BlueOnion
Footballguy
Not a lot of money it would appear. Here is how I assume the money will break down;Money Archie gets
Year 1 - 12.1 (10 million signing bonus and 2.1 annual salary)
Year 2 - 2.6 (2.6 annual salary)
Year 3 - 3.1 (3.1 annual salary)
Year 4 - 3.6 (3.6 annual salary)
Year 5 - 4.1 (4.1 annual salary)
Year 6 - 4.6 (4.6 annual salary)
Redskin Salary Cap Hit \\ Penality for releasing Archie prior to said year
Year 1 - 3.76 \\ 10.00 (1.66 million signing bonus and 2.1 annual salary)
Year 2 - 4.26 \\ 8.30 (1.66 million signing bonus and 2.6 annual salary)
Year 3 - 4.76 \\ 6.64 (1.66 million signing bonus and 3.1 annual salary)
Year 4 - 5.26 \\ 4.98 (1.66 million signing bonus and 3.6 annual salary)
Year 5 - 5.76 \\ 3.32 (1.66 million signing bonus and 4.1 annual salary)
Year 6 - 6.26 \\ 1.66 (1.66 million signing bonus and 4.6 annual salary)
The critical point I suspect will be after year 3, Archie will count 5.26 million against the Redskins Salary Cap (which is well over his value). If the Redskins opt to release Archie, they will take a 4.98 million salary cap penality going into 2009.
I suspect they did the same type of contracts for each player they signed.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I'd put the odds at least at dead even that they won't. As long as they want to stay with the team something will get worked out.How soon everyone forgets the line of players wanting to restructure their contracts so the team could stay together AND make additions in weak areas (WR, DB, DL).
Welcome to Joe Gibbs' Redskins.
Snyder may write the checks, but Gibbs is what makes this team a team.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
It is hard to anticipate what a player will want. I know Carter and Randle El wanted big money, but how much did they just get this week? I don't think it was all that much and it seems a lot of their money is deferred to later years. The recent trend has been for players not to renegotiate, Laverenous Coles, Dante Culpepper, Ty Law, [safety for Patriots who signed with Buffalo], T.O..
The benefit for Randle El and Carter not to redo their contracts in two years is it would force the Redskins to release them so they can become free agents; see Jeremiah Trotter of a few years back.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
They each got about 10 million in guaranteed money.
None of those guys play for Joe Gibbs. About a dozen guys who do play for Gibbs had restructured contracts ready to be signed in the event they were needed last week.
A better benefit would be for them to redo their contracts in a couple of years to change their backloaded salary money into up front bonus money and not have to change teams.Trotter is hardly a good example as he was let go in the transition between Spurrier and Gibbs.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
So the Redskins whole plan is contingent on the players thinking the world of Joe Gibbs? Also considering two seasons from now puts Gibbs at 4 (maybe 5) years into his coaching return? I just don't think the Redskins' methodology is congruent to building a championship caliber team. Most teams (which were championship teams) that have applied this methodology have hoped to maintain their current level of performance. The Redskins, for the most part are pretty mediocre. Each contract is different and the amortization of each contract is vastly different. I don't think what the Redskins are doing is bad, I just don't think it is nearly as effective as some of the better managed teams in the NFL.They each got about 10 million in guaranteed money.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
Contingent on? Dunno. I do know that the current players do think the world of Gibbs. I know that the vast majority of the players from Gibbs 1.0 thought the world of him. I don't see any evidence of this changing anytime soon.I'm just saying (based on what the players are saying), if you can get your money and play for a coach/system you believe in, what would compel you to leave?
They went from mediocre, at best, to playoff calibre in Gibbs' second season. They've added Saunders to kick start an offense that, although they improved over year 1, still lacked consistency (and yet made it to the playoffs and won a playoff game). They've added players this offseason at positions that were problematic. I don't see how a playoff team that does those types of things is not "building a championship caliber team". I'll agree that Gibbs won't be around forever but it's no secret that Gregg Williams (and/or possibly Suanders, now) is in line to be the next Redskins head coach. When Joe does step away as a coach there really won't be a break in coaching or system continuity.
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Well I have never seen a franchise build a championship contender by mortgaging the future, but that doesn't mean it cannot be done.
I have seen teams win a championship (Cowboys, Niners, Rams) and then mortgage the future to maintain their championship teams. I have also seen teams become a championship contender and then mortgage the future to try and take the final step (Titans, Vikings). But I have never seen a team mortgage the future to get to the wildcard level (this year) and then proceed to build the team to a championship contender and then hopefully to a championship.
Now I am not saying it cannot be done, I am just saying I have not seen it done yet and underestimating Snyder would be a mistake.
I have seen teams win a championship (Cowboys, Niners, Rams) and then mortgage the future to maintain their championship teams. I have also seen teams become a championship contender and then mortgage the future to try and take the final step (Titans, Vikings). But I have never seen a team mortgage the future to get to the wildcard level (this year) and then proceed to build the team to a championship contender and then hopefully to a championship.
Now I am not saying it cannot be done, I am just saying I have not seen it done yet and underestimating Snyder would be a mistake.
Sidewinder16
Footballguy
I think this would be the key.If anyone really believes Snyder is following step-for-step what the Cowboys, Niners, Rams, Titans or Vikings tried to do that got them into cap trouble they are seriously deluding themselves. They know what those teams did and they've been playing this game for the past six (seven?) off-seasons. They know what they're doing and how not to get in cap trouble. We're talking about the business side of the NFL and an excellent businessman. People really just need to accept this.
Where is the cap hell we're supposed to be in due to the Bruce Smith, Deion Sanders and Mark Carrier contracts?
What about the big money that Chris Samuels, LaVar Arrington and Champ Bailey would have had as signing bonuses and in the backend of their original contracts? When is that going to bite us in the butt?
Jessie Armstead, Jeremiah Trotter, Trung Canidate, Laveranues Coles? Why didn't their big contracts and bonuses hurt us?
What about Santana Moss' and Clinton Portis' money?
When are all these signing bonuses gonna kill us? It doesn't have to be an exact day. Just someone give me a year so I can know when to really be worried. Oh, and please back up your prediction with cap hits for each player and what the cap will be for that year, if you could. TIA
BlueOnion
Footballguy
Actually, they are doing the same thing. Big upfront signing bonuses, prorated over 6 or 7 years and back-loaded annual salaries.what Snyder is doing is hardly original. The only thing unique about what Snyder is doing is he is doing it with a team with a marginal track record.
