Assuming Vick Takes the Reigns (1 Viewer)

[whodeywhodey]

Where do you see Mike Vick ranking should he take over the starting role?

And yes, I know that Reid still like Kolb (for now).

 

[Go deep]

Assuming he starts all year(which is highly unlikely), i would put him in the Bradford/Henne range, QB15-18.

 

[ponchsox]

Wow, another Vick thread? I doubt he starts more than 1 game unless Kolb gets hurt again or he falls flat on his face. If Vick was the starter I would rank him around 12-15.

 

[whodeywhodey]

Wow, another Vick thread? I doubt he starts more than 1 game unless Kolb gets hurt again or he falls flat on his face. If Vick was the starter I would rank him around 12-15.

Sorry. Meant to start another Finley or Best thread but my God button got stuck.

 

[Avery]

Depends on the scoring system, but if he takes it like a dog takes a bone, doesn't chase his tail, acts like DeSean Jackson's best friend, doesn't party to the point where he needs a hair of the dog to get going, he could be a faithful start.

 

[gonzobill5]

On a per game basis, top ten in standard scoring. And let's not underestimate his potential to get a significant number of starts. Don't get me wrong, when Kolb is healthy Reid will stick him back in no matter how well Vick plays or how loud the fans scream. However, without Jamaal, this OLine could be in trouble. Even if Kolb comes back, he doesn't strike me as the type that is going to hold up dropping back 35 times a game and getting hit 10 times. Vick will get his chances to start one way or another.

And don't forget, he's motivated. A free agent at the end of the season, this will be his last chance to show he deserves to start and get paid. This offense has play makers and might be playing from behind a lot. They pass A LOT no matter what. The only way that changes with Vick is that he won't actually throw the ball every time he drops back - sometimes he'll run instead. I see 200 yards passing, 80 yards rushing, 2 TDs and a couple turnovers as the norm.

 

[menobrown]

I'd put him just outside the big 4 and either at #5 or #6 with Romo as his comp.

 

[mr roboto]

In most leagues, rushing yard are 2x or 2.5 times passing yards, so a stat line of 150passing, 75rushing is similiar to 300 passing yards...

And based on the way he looked Sunday, he may have improved as a passer. So, I think a full season with McCoy, Celek, Maclin, Jackson...

He could easily crack the top 10. If everything broke right, he may pass guys like McNabb, Eli, and Cutler.

But he won't start the whole season, even if he is the better QB RIGHT NOW in philly. They have to let Kolb develop.

 

[cjack]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

 

[Aardvarks]

didnt Vick hook up Crumpler big time? I bet Celek likes the idea of Vick starting.

 

[moderated]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

The roddy vick played with was not the roddy of today. He was a rookie and extremely raw.Also you might want to check vicks ff finishes before stating he wasn't a good fantasy qb.

 

[Pickle Rody]

Anyone who would assume Vick takes the reigns is foolish. It isn't going to happen. Sure, he'll be tossed out there quite a few times a game to do some kind of Wildcat crap, but this is Kolb's team to live or die with in 2010.

 

[moderated]

Anyone who would assume Vick takes the reigns is foolish. It isn't going to happen. Sure, he'll be tossed out there quite a few times a game to do some kind of Wildcat crap, but this is Kolb's team to live or die with in 2010.

Agreed unless kolb has a few horrible games in a row.The locker room wants vick now but wil accept kolb as long as he produces. If kolb flounders and vick doesn't get a shot the players will be in an uproar.Whether we like it or not the players love and respect vick as a leader.

 

[ponchsox]

Kolb couldn't survive behind the Eagles o-line before their center went down for the year. My guess is Kolb starts vs Jax and doesn't last two more games. Not due to performance, but teams are going to bring the house at Kolb and he will get injured.

 

[Amused to Death]

Anyone who would assume Vick takes the reigns is foolish. It isn't going to happen. Sure, he'll be tossed out there quite a few times a game to do some kind of Wildcat crap, but this is Kolb's team to live or die with in 2010.

Agreed unless kolb has a few horrible games in a row.The locker room wants vick now but wil accept kolb as long as he produces. If kolb flounders and vick doesn't get a shot the players will be in an uproar.

Whether we like it or not the players love and respect vick as a leader.

Where are you getting that from? One of the reasons the Eagles traded McNabb was because the locker room wanted Kolb.The Philadelphia Inquirer reported Sunday that Kolb was the choice among the players. Offensive lineman Todd Herremans explained.

"I would say probably the majority of the players are younger players, and they drew to Kevin a little better as the last year went on, especially being able to get in there and actually play with them a couple games. The younger players in the locker room kind of wanted to see Kevin take over and get their own print on the team. As long as Donovan was on the team, it was going to be his thing, not the young kids taking over."

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/07/25/kevin-k...es-locker-room/

 

[Instinctive]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

Didn't he finish 3rd half the time he started? That's a damn good record of being a top QB IMO

 

[SSOG]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

He was 3rd (in 15 games), 11th (in 15 games), 12th (in 15 games), and 3rd in his 4 years as a starter. Why couldn't he be in the top 5 this year in a stronger offense? You say he won't run consistently like he did in the past, but why would you think that? He looks like the same old Vick, and he's coming off a 100 yard rushing game.

 

[Porkchop]

He was 3rd (in 15 games), 11th (in 15 games), 12th (in 15 games), and 3rd in his 4 years as a starter. Why couldn't he be in the top 5 this year in a stronger offense? You say he won't run consistently like he did in the past, but why would you think that? He looks like the same old Vick, and he's coming off a 100 yard rushing game.

This.Vick had his up and downs early on, but he was a solid QB1 his last several years in Atlanta. Although he took some real-life flack for playoff losses... those Atlanta teams were 4 or 5 win teams without him.I doubt that Vick will take over in Philly. But he can still be a good fantasy option in weeks when you know he'll start... this weekend might be one of them.

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

Why are we "assuming Vicks takes over"? Unless Kolb is out for the year then I don't see the need to even assume anything.

 

[QuizGuy66]

I don't think Vick takes over straight away. It's possible he will if Kolb's concussion situation being much more serious than originally let on (which can happen - look at Justin Morneau in baseball). Assuming Kolb comes back and takes over again, it is plausible that Reid will turn to Vick if Kolb is really struggling and particularly if the Eagles are losing (and Reid feels his job is in jeopardy).

I think were he to take over the reins full time it's plausible for Vick to end up as a low end 1 (that is in the 10-12 range). People don't have long memories, I realize, but I did ride Vick to a championship in '04 (I think it was '04) where he started every game but his bye. Actually got "stuck" with him in round 6.

-QG

 

[delusional]

Wow, another Vick thread? I doubt he starts more than 1 game unless Kolb gets hurt again or he falls flat on his face. If Vick was the starter I would rank him around 12-15.

behind that oline....i can see him getting hurt again.

 

[brtdud7]

Depends on the scoring system, but if he takes it like a dog takes a bone, doesn't chase his tail, acts like DeSean Jackson's best friend, doesn't party to the point where he needs a hair of the dog to get going,

please tell me you used 3 dog analogies to describe vick on purpose

 

[Babu Bhatt2]

If Vick takes over I think he is a solid fantasy starter, but an unpredictable one for the reasons SSOG mentioned.

Additionally, there is one big factor that nobody has mentioned. In Vick's previous years as a starter, the Falcons sought to protect him. They tried to keep him from running as much as he could because he was the franchise. The Eagles, on the other hand, will be happy to squeeze every last drop of running ability out of him, and Vick will be happy to comply as he tries to get one last payday. His running numbers could easily exceed anything he put up before.

 

[Truman]

When have the Eagles ever run the Wildcat? When Vick gets the ball it's usually in a shotgun spread option, not with an unbalanced line and a flanker in motion.

 

[WFR]

Kolb couldn't survive behind the Eagles o-line before their center went down for the year. My guess is Kolb starts vs Jax and doesn't last two more games. Not due to performance, but teams are going to bring the house at Kolb and he will get injured.

He has no patience in the pocket and defenses know this!He will spend more time on the turf than he will upright.

 

[Otis]

Depends on the scoring system, but if he takes it like a dog takes a bone, doesn't chase his tail, acts like DeSean Jackson's best friend, doesn't party to the point where he needs a hair of the dog to get going,

please tell me you used 3 dog analogies to describe vick on purpose

I'm sure that was just complete coincidence.

 

[Ignoratio Elenchi]

Depends on the scoring system, but if he takes it like a dog takes a bone, doesn't chase his tail, acts like DeSean Jackson's best friend, doesn't party to the point where he needs a hair of the dog to get going,

please tell me you used 3 dog analogies to describe vick on purpose

Please tell me you didn't miss the fourth dog analogy in the middle of the other three you bolded.

 

[GregR_2]

Why are we "assuming Vicks takes over"? Unless Kolb is out for the year then I don't see the need to even assume anything.

Because this is the kind of question that a good fantasy football owner needs an answer to.The value of an NFL backup QB to a fantasy team who isn't handcuffing with him is mostly based off of what he would score if he becomes the starter.

 

[cjack]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

He was 3rd (in 15 games), 11th (in 15 games), 12th (in 15 games), and 3rd in his 4 years as a starter. Why couldn't he be in the top 5 this year in a stronger offense? You say he won't run consistently like he did in the past, but why would you think that? He looks like the same old Vick, and he's coming off a 100 yard rushing game.

I can't be certain because I'm not sure where to get accurate historical information, but I suspect those rankings are based on passing TDs only being 4 points. Which is fine if your league scores like that, mine doesn't. In leagues where passing TDs are 6 points, I think his ranking drops down a bit. The historical data dominator doesn't let me adjust for scoring, and I don't feel like manually calculating every top 5 QBs stats for the years Vick played.Also, not sure what happened to Vick in 2003, did he get hurt? That should count against him to some point.Back when Vick was starting in Atlanta, people openly wondered if the Falcon's WRs were among the league's worst. Roddy White was among those receivers. Now, granted he was a rookie in 2005 and a second year player in 2006, but when Vick left, Roddy's career took off. Some will suggest that was because he was a third year breakout, but he made an awfully big leap from year 2.He ran well in week one, because that's what Vick knows, but the defenses weren't prepared for him to be the starter. I don't think he'll run as much for a couple of reasons. One, I don't think Reid wants his QBs to bail too soon on the pass, and two, the injury risk at his age will take its toll if he continues to run like he did in week 1.At the end of the day, that's fine, take a chance on Vick, there are certainly worse options out there, but in my opinion, and that's all it is, he's not going to be your season savior this year. If you're looking for Vick to change your team's fortunes after week 1, you probably didn't draft very well. If you want a solid back-up, sure.But, on top of all that, this is all dependent on Kolb's health as well. Just doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to propel you to a championship. I'm not stating any of the above as fact, they're just my opinions, and I'm sure they're not going to change the mind of anyone already belted in on the bandwagon.

 

[Banger]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

Didn't he run for 100 yards in less than a full game last week?

 

[cjack]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

Didn't he run for 100 yards in less than a full game last week?

See post above yours.

 

[Banger]

Why are we "assuming Vicks takes over"? Unless Kolb is out for the year then I don't see the need to even assume anything.

I think people are playing "what-ifs" which you should do. What has Kolb done in his career to lock him down as the starter? I know they traded McNabb and want to see him succeed but he had a lousy preseason and got hurt in his 1st game. Yes, when he gets healthy they'll give Kolb another shot but if Vick plays well and they win and Kolb comes in and looks like he has this pre/regular sesason I could definitely see them making a switch. Happens all the time.

 

[Banger]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

He was 3rd (in 15 games), 11th (in 15 games), 12th (in 15 games), and 3rd in his 4 years as a starter. Why couldn't he be in the top 5 this year in a stronger offense? You say he won't run consistently like he did in the past, but why would you think that? He looks like the same old Vick, and he's coming off a 100 yard rushing game.

I can't be certain because I'm not sure where to get accurate historical information, but I suspect those rankings are based on passing TDs only being 4 points. Which is fine if your league scores like that, mine doesn't. In leagues where passing TDs are 6 points, I think his ranking drops down a bit. The historical data dominator doesn't let me adjust for scoring, and I don't feel like manually calculating every top 5 QBs stats for the years Vick played.Also, not sure what happened to Vick in 2003, did he get hurt? That should count against him to some point.Back when Vick was starting in Atlanta, people openly wondered if the Falcon's WRs were among the league's worst. Roddy White was among those receivers. Now, granted he was a rookie in 2005 and a second year player in 2006, but when Vick left, Roddy's career took off. Some will suggest that was because he was a third year breakout, but he made an awfully big leap from year 2.He ran well in week one, because that's what Vick knows, but the defenses weren't prepared for him to be the starter. I don't think he'll run as much for a couple of reasons. One, I don't think Reid wants his QBs to bail too soon on the pass, and two, the injury risk at his age will take its toll if he continues to run like he did in week 1.At the end of the day, that's fine, take a chance on Vick, there are certainly worse options out there, but in my opinion, and that's all it is, he's not going to be your season savior this year. If you're looking for Vick to change your team's fortunes after week 1, you probably didn't draft very well. If you want a solid back-up, sure.But, on top of all that, this is all dependent on Kolb's health as well. Just doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to propel you to a championship. I'm not stating any of the above as fact, they're just my opinions, and I'm sure they're not going to change the mind of anyone already belted in on the bandwagon.

You never know what will propel you to a championship and it's not like Vick hasn't been successful in the past. The chances are slight but you have to see how things work out and concussions can be a ##### and keep players out a LONG time. Vick was the #4 Qb in league last week in less than a full game, with Det on the schedule he's likely to be a top 5 QB again. Way, way, way crazier things have happened than Vick becoming fantasy relevant again.Picking up Vick has nothing to do with drafting well or drafting poorly. The offseason evaluation and draft is one phase of FF but when the regular season starts you need to adjust and react to what occurs and when you think there's a potential opportunity and the risk/reward is justified you jump. Once the season starts it's week to week management and the goal is to win this week and if I can pick up a QB that has a terrific matchup that week, it doesn't matter that I drafted Schaub or Romo or whomever, I'm going to start the guy that gives me the best chance to win. Also, I don't agree with the premise that Reid isn't going to want Vick to run due to potential injury. That's what he does and that's why he's on the team and that's why they trot him out to do the wildcard a half dozen times a game. That's his biggest strength at QB and if you take that away you might as well start someone else.

 

[cjack]

Are people forgetting it was Vick who made Roddy White look like Freddie Mitchell? Even in his best years in Atlanta, he only sniffed top QB status, so what's going to make him jump up to top 5 (Romo range) all the sudden. Yes, he will make up for a lack of passing yards with some rushing yards, but I doubt he'll run consistently like he did a few years back.

He was 3rd (in 15 games), 11th (in 15 games), 12th (in 15 games), and 3rd in his 4 years as a starter. Why couldn't he be in the top 5 this year in a stronger offense? You say he won't run consistently like he did in the past, but why would you think that? He looks like the same old Vick, and he's coming off a 100 yard rushing game.

I can't be certain because I'm not sure where to get accurate historical information, but I suspect those rankings are based on passing TDs only being 4 points. Which is fine if your league scores like that, mine doesn't. In leagues where passing TDs are 6 points, I think his ranking drops down a bit. The historical data dominator doesn't let me adjust for scoring, and I don't feel like manually calculating every top 5 QBs stats for the years Vick played.Also, not sure what happened to Vick in 2003, did he get hurt? That should count against him to some point.Back when Vick was starting in Atlanta, people openly wondered if the Falcon's WRs were among the league's worst. Roddy White was among those receivers. Now, granted he was a rookie in 2005 and a second year player in 2006, but when Vick left, Roddy's career took off. Some will suggest that was because he was a third year breakout, but he made an awfully big leap from year 2.He ran well in week one, because that's what Vick knows, but the defenses weren't prepared for him to be the starter. I don't think he'll run as much for a couple of reasons. One, I don't think Reid wants his QBs to bail too soon on the pass, and two, the injury risk at his age will take its toll if he continues to run like he did in week 1.At the end of the day, that's fine, take a chance on Vick, there are certainly worse options out there, but in my opinion, and that's all it is, he's not going to be your season savior this year. If you're looking for Vick to change your team's fortunes after week 1, you probably didn't draft very well. If you want a solid back-up, sure.But, on top of all that, this is all dependent on Kolb's health as well. Just doesn't seem like the kind of thing that's going to propel you to a championship. I'm not stating any of the above as fact, they're just my opinions, and I'm sure they're not going to change the mind of anyone already belted in on the bandwagon.

You never know what will propel you to a championship and it's not like Vick hasn't been successful in the past. The chances are slight but you have to see how things work out and concussions can be a ##### and keep players out a LONG time. Vick was the #4 Qb in league last week in less than a full game, with Det on the schedule he's likely to be a top 5 QB again. Way, way, way crazier things have happened than Vick becoming fantasy relevant again.Picking up Vick has nothing to do with drafting well or drafting poorly. The offseason evaluation and draft is one phase of FF but when the regular season starts you need to adjust and react to what occurs and when you think there's a potential opportunity and the risk/reward is justified you jump. Once the season starts it's week to week management and the goal is to win this week and if I can pick up a QB that has a terrific matchup that week, it doesn't matter that I drafted Schaub or Romo or whomever, I'm going to start the guy that gives me the best chance to win. Also, I don't agree with the premise that Reid isn't going to want Vick to run due to potential injury. That's what he does and that's why he's on the team and that's why they trot him out to do the wildcard a half dozen times a game. That's his biggest strength at QB and if you take that away you might as well start someone else.

I won't comment on all of that because they're valid points, but we'll have to disagree on some of that. To your last point though, it's one thing to have Vick run in the Wildcat format when he's your back-up QB, it's an entirely different matter when he's your starter because your number one is out with injury. I'm just not sure he can afford to have Vick take off any time he doesn't have his first read open. I guess if you drafted a QB by committee, then Vick is a viable match-up play, assuming Kolb is out. But, if you drafted a top 7-8 QB, I don't think I would want to play match-ups all year and try to guess right. I'm still waiting for someone to demonstrate the success of a QB by committee approach, but that's another topic, and not one that you're bringing up.I should also say, I wasn't high on Kolb this year at all. I would not have drafted him as a top 10 QB as some did. So, it's not that I don't think Vick can be better than Kolb, I just don't think he'll consistently be better than the top 7-8 QBs.Now, with all that said, how does Vick's matchup look in week 10 (assuming he's starting then) when Rivers is on bye?

 

[SSOG]

I can't be certain because I'm not sure where to get accurate historical information, but I suspect those rankings are based on passing TDs only being 4 points. Which is fine if your league scores like that, mine doesn't. In leagues where passing TDs are 6 points, I think his ranking drops down a bit. The historical data dominator doesn't let me adjust for scoring, and I don't feel like manually calculating every top 5 QBs stats for the years Vick played.

You suspect incorrectly. Those fantasy finishes come from PFR, which uses a 1 per 25 yards, 6 per TD, -2 per INT scoring system for passing. Using 4 points per TD would have vaulted Vick to second in 2006.

Also, not sure what happened to Vick in 2003, did he get hurt? That should count against him to some point.

He was injured in preseason. No idea why it should count against him, since it was a non-recurring injury that happened 7 years ago. The Falcons were 2-10 in games Vick missed and 3-1 in games Vick started that year. If anything, 2003 should count as a major point in his favor.