Average college freshman reads at 7th grade level (1 Viewer)

[Prince Myshkin]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or

earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and

stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks

to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

No.

My experience is very similar. When I went back to school it was way different than my first time around.

Any chance that maybe you were very different than your first time around?

Schools are in a no-win situation with stories like this. Either they change curriculum, and everybody shouts "It's not like it was back when I was in school and I turned out just fine!" or they don't change and it's "the curriculum is outdated...gotta keep up with the times...they are doing it this way in Norway and getting better scores. Why don't we teach like the Norwegians?!?!?!"

Truth is, there's not much reason to read above a middle school level. Most newspapers, magazines, web sites, etc. are written on about an 8th grade level (depending on the measurement used). Very few of us ever read anything written on a higher complexity level than that. If we do, it's a piece of job specific, technical material that we learn to read once we are on the job. IMO it is more about what students can do with the material they read. Can they summarize it, respond to it, get key info from it. If they can do things like that from 8th grade level material, most will be able to be successful.

 

[Guest]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

The point I was trying, and failing to make wasn't specifically about changing oil or knowing what a Phillips screwdriver is. My point was who's fault is it that they don't know?

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

The point I was trying, and failing to make wasn't specifically about changing oil or knowing what a Phillips screwdriver is. My point was who's fault is it that they don't know?

Right, my point is that there's no point in assigning "fault" for not knowing how to do something that most people don't need to know how to do. I don't know how to fly a plane either, but I don't see any reason to blame anyone for my lack of knowledge there.The Phillips head screwdriver thing, if true, is probably blameworthy. Most people should know what that is.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

The point I was trying, and failing to make wasn't specifically about changing oil or knowing what a Phillips screwdriver is. My point was who's fault is it that they don't know?

Exactly. Kids today have a different set of knowledge than we had at their age. Doesn't make them dumber or inferior.

 

[Thunderlips]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

The point I was trying, and failing to make wasn't specifically about changing oil or knowing what a Phillips screwdriver is. My point was who's fault is it that they don't know?

Exactly. Kids today have a different set of knowledge than we had at their age. Doesn't make them dumber or inferior.

Yes it does....NOW GET OFF OF MY LAWN!

 

[Prince Myshkin]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Any chance the 13 or 14 year-olds were nervous reading their personal poems in front of a group of friends, teachers, family members and strangers??? Presenting in public is a way different beast than reading ability. Many highly intelligent adults struggle with it.

 

[MAC_32]

My wife teaches 4th/5th grade. Her students have been performing badly, so administration has asked her without asking her to dumb up the material to inflate their grades. She doesn't work at a great catholic school, but certainly not a bottom one either. Schools are struggling to stay open and parents are upset with the school for their child's poor grades instead of their own child for failing.

Reading stuff like this doesn't surprise me at all, unfortunately. It's the culture we live in. It'll take a stronger administration to fix it since poor parenting won't.

 

[NutterButter]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I change my own, but I don't see it as an important skill to have either. I certainly wouldn't want it be mandatory curriculum in school. If I want to teach my kids how to do it, I will. I just do it b/c its cheaper and quicker if I do it myself.

 

[jonessed]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

My daughter takes woodworking, music, and a programming class in the sixth grade (they are on rotation). My kindergartener takes music, theatre, and does a chess program at lunch that one of the teachers runs on their own time. Apparently it's packed.

There is a voluntary science fair every year for grades K-8, but almost every kid does it and there is a lot of focus on getting the kids to do it in groups on their own (which I think is fantastic).

We previously lived in school district that didn't rate nearly as high, but it had a great principal and some really amazing after-school enrichment programs. The local library had reading clubs and a neat board game club. This was in an area that was much more diverse (ethnically and economically). The programs were out there for parents that wanted to involve their kids.

It really all comes down to parenting and the communities. At least in areas that still have local control. I know LA Unified is a complete disaster. I feel bad for those communities as the district is so large and so all-consuming that local influence is pretty much impossible.

 

[Bonfire]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

I think I remember reading on a billboard that you can use your old motor oil to fertilize your lawn!

Now if you just start making your own soap, you will really be saving

 

[spreagle]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I dont know if its important or not, but for me, the cost involved to having others do it vs the effort on my part (getting rid of the oil seems like a pain) isnt worth the $6 savings.

The point I was trying, and failing to make wasn't specifically about changing oil or knowing what a Phillips screwdriver is. My point was who's fault is it that they don't know?

I think the problem/fault is that "changing oil" is generally thought of as a thoughtless knuckledragging task, when it can be a potential problem solving opportunity for a kid. Say the filter is stuck, which is usually the case, the kid has to figure out how to get it unstuck, either by finding a filter clamp to leverage it out or sticking a screwdriver through it and leveraging it out. The knowledge gained can then be used to do other similar things. This is how kids get smarter.

 

[jonessed]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I change my own, but I don't see it as an important skill to have either. I certainly wouldn't want it be mandatory curriculum in school. If I want to teach my kids how to do it, I will. I just do it b/c its cheaper and quicker if I do it myself.

It's not important at all except for as an introduction to shop and how engines work. It's a segway into mechanical engineering. That's how these things work. You can't just throw a book down and tell a kid to learn calculus. There's no connection there. You have to find something they enjoy and then bring out the path.A good teacher (school, parent, or other) can turn music into math, shop into engineering, theatre into presenting, reading into writing, cooking into science.

 

[Ilov80s]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

More important is how many of these people graduate and with what degrees. Is there demand for another liberal arts degree? Worst case is 2 years of college, not cut it and drop out with debt and no degree.

Absolutely. I was just addressing the alternative solution that many on this board mention. If there's not demand to absorb so many tradesman year after year, how better off are we? I still think the debt thing is a little over blown. Sure there's people that graduate with enormous debt but if the average is in the high 20K's for a 20 year low interest loan, how big of a deal is that.

It's a fair point. I don't know the long term job outlook for the trades. My bigger concern with college debt isn't the amount of money as much as the debt for students that are then unable to find work in the field (it's like spending 20k on a car that won't start) or kids that spend 10k and flunk out of school because they didn't belong in the first place. The six year graduation rate for first time undergrad students at a 4 year university is only about 60% at best.

 

[The Commish]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

 

[NutterButter]

Different times. I spent a day creating a FORTRAN program to do what kids today can do in Excel or on their phone.

What I find interesting is when I ask a kid to get me a Phillips screwdriver and they have no clue.

When I was in school I took classes in typing, drafting, hunter's education, sewing, wood shop, cooking, and small engine repair.

Maybe getting off topic and I hope this doesn't come off as "get off my lawn". I was changing the oil in the family vehicles when I was 12. I don't think my 20 year old son knows how to change the oil in his vehicle. That's my failure, not his. Maybe that's the point.

I'm 41 and I've never changed my own oil. Doesn't seem like it's an important skill to have.

I change my own, but I don't see it as an important skill to have either. I certainly wouldn't want it be mandatory curriculum in school. If I want to teach my kids how to do it, I will. I just do it b/c its cheaper and quicker if I do it myself.

It's not important at all except for as an introduction to shop and how engines work. It's a segway into mechanical engineering. That's how these things work. You can't just throw a book down and tell a kid to learn calculus. There's no connection there. You have to find something they enjoy and then bring out the path.

A good teacher (school, parent, or other) can turn music into math, shop into engineering, theatre into presenting, reading into, well, reading.

Which is great, but I don't know if that's the most ideal subjects for high school. There's no reason they can't have this as an after school program and the kids that want to learn it can do that program.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

 

[The Commish]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

Oh, this is one of many issues. Others include not wanting to work for a grade, pitching fits if the tests aren't multiple choice, not "giving" grades that weren't earned, writing skills, etc....WAY too many to put out here.

She had a student one time ask for extra credit because he could take his pulse on his ankle. Earlier in the week she was lecturing on the circulatory system and noted it was very difficult, but possible, to take a pulse on the ankle. Since he could, he thought it was worth some EC. She comes home with #### like this almost daily.

 

[NutterButter]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

More important is how many of these people graduate and with what degrees. Is there demand for another liberal arts degree? Worst case is 2 years of college, not cut it and drop out with debt and no degree.

Absolutely. I was just addressing the alternative solution that many on this board mention. If there's not demand to absorb so many tradesman year after year, how better off are we? I still think the debt thing is a little over blown. Sure there's people that graduate with enormous debt but if the average is in the high 20K's for a 20 year low interest loan, how big of a deal is that.

It's a fair point. I don't know the long term job outlook for the trades. My bigger concern with college debt isn't the amount of money as much as the debt for students that are then unable to find work in the field (it's like spending 20k on a car that won't start) or kids that spend 10k and flunk out of school because they didn't belong in the first place. The six year graduation rate for first time undergrad students at a 4 year university is only about 60% at best.

Regardless of whether they flunk out or not, its not a huge amount of debt. I mean, 10k over 20 years at a low interest is like a data plan. 10k to find out early on that white collar work isn't for you might be considered a fair trade off. The bigger problem to me is getting kids to choose majors that are in demand.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

Oh, this is one of many issues. Others include not wanting to work for a grade, pitching fits if the tests aren't multiple choice, not "giving" grades that weren't earned, writing skills, etc....WAY too many to put out here.

Yeah...my bet is that college professors (teachers at all levels in fact) have had these same types of issues for generations. The whole "Get Off My Lawn" crowd that acts like this is a new thing or that kids are dumber now than years past are missing some perspective IMO.

Now on the college front, we do have WAY more students going to college now than before, so it would make since that professors would see more of this now than in the past. Still doesn't indicate an increasing "dumbness" of today's students.

 

[Ilov80s]

I would be really mad about spending 10k and getting nothing from it (but a life lesson that someone could have told me for free), all the lost time and effort and all the money/experience I could have been earning by working instead. Is that person likely to take out more money for a different training? Probably less likely.

 

[The Commish]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

Oh, this is one of many issues. Others include not wanting to work for a grade, pitching fits if the tests aren't multiple choice, not "giving" grades that weren't earned, writing skills, etc....WAY too many to put out here.

Yeah...my bet is that college professors (teachers at all levels in fact) have had these same types of issues for generations. The whole "Get Off My Lawn" crowd that acts like this is a new thing or that kids are dumber now than years past are missing some perspective IMO.

Now on the college front, we do have WAY more students going to college now than before, so it would make since that professors would see more of this now than in the past. Still doesn't indicate an increasing "dumbness" of today's students.

Perhaps. I do see a complete lack of accountability in a lot that I have never seen before. Even in me...it's frightening.

 

[Prince Myshkin]

So looking up some stats, I find that 3.3 million students are expected to graduate from high school this year with like 2 million going to college. If say 25% of that instead went into a trade, is there enough demand to absorb that .5M along with the 1.3M that already aren't going to college?

More important is how many of these people graduate and with what degrees. Is there demand for another liberal arts degree? Worst case is 2 years of college, not cut it and drop out with debt and no degree.

Absolutely. I was just addressing the alternative solution that many on this board mention. If there's not demand to absorb so many tradesman year after year, how better off are we? I still think the debt thing is a little over blown. Sure there's people that graduate with enormous debt but if the average is in the high 20K's for a 20 year low interest loan, how big of a deal is that.

It's a fair point. I don't know the long term job outlook for the trades. My bigger concern with college debt isn't the amount of money as much as the debt for students that are then unable to find work in the field (it's like spending 20k on a car that won't start) or kids that spend 10k and flunk out of school because they didn't belong in the first place. The six year graduation rate for first time undergrad students at a 4 year university is only about 60% at best.

Regardless of whether they flunk out or not, its not a huge amount of debt. I mean, 10k over 20 years at a low interest is like a data plan. 10k to find out early on that white collar work isn't for you might be considered a fair trade off. The bigger problem to me is getting kids to choose majors that are in demand.

And it's not like the time spent in college is completely wasted if you don't get that degree. Learning how to live independently in a relatively safe environment while getting exposed to a variety of different cultures is worth at least some of that debt.

 

[MAC_32]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

I'm happy when I get emails from students that have punctuation and all actual words. If they are properly used then I am bouncing off the walls.

 

[loser]

You have to be able to think to read at a high level. My middle school kid recently won a poetry/writing contest somehow and all the kids who placed had to read their poem. It was shocking and sad how poorly almost all the kids read THEIR OWN WRITING. 8th graders sounded like 3rd graders. Slow and quiet and stuttering like they were reading it for the first time. And these were supposedly the smart kids. I won't even get into the lousy content, I knew exactly what the content was going to be for some kids if you know what I mean. Something very very wrong is happening to the kids, its like they've been stripped of the ability to think, no wonder they can't read. I will give them credit that they've figured out how to game the system ... if I read or write about THIS then the teacher won't even dare to give me anything other than an A.

Not to be a but you have to wonder if there is an overriding reason that we seem to be dumbing down and making everything "fair."

I don't think there is a conspiracy, I think kids are getting dumber because they have fewer and fewer real world problem solving opportunities. Problem solving gets your brain working. Everything is given to kids these days so that even simple problem solving opportunities are rare. Some simple problem solving opportunities I had as a kid that no longer exist: 1) how to deliver 200 newspapers I could barely carry every Wednesday (kids don't deliver papers anymore we have the internet now), 2) how to stop my minnow trap from getting repeatedly stolen (the few kids who fish use plastics now), 3) how to make my bow shoot more accurately (good luck shooting in your backyard in the city without the cops showing up), 4) how to procure lumber and plan the tree fort (good luck finding a tree off your property to pound nails in, that's not allowed anymore), 5) how to fill my blueberry buckets as fast as I could so I wouldn't be in the woods all day getting eaten by mosquitoes (try getting a kid to find and pick a wild berry these days, it is hopeless, just go to the grocery store they will say). All problems have been "solved" leaving few remaining problems for the kids to solve. Except racism of course everyone is working really hard on that one.

Yeah. Or how to fashion a coonskin cap. Or avoid contracting diphtheria...

 

[NutterButter]

I would be really mad about spending 10k and getting nothing from it (but a life lesson that someone could have told me for free), all the lost time and effort and all the money/experience I could have been earning by working instead. Is that person likely to take out more money for a different training? Probably less likely.

Hopefully they got 10k worth of fun and college experience.

 

[The Commish]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

I'm happy when I get emails from students that have punctuation and all actual words. If they are properly used then I am bouncing off the walls.

Oh...don't get her started on the email thing...hahaha. The funniest thing(s) about her rants on that topic is she does the EXACT same things a lot of times.

 

[Ilov80s]

I would be really mad about spending 10k and getting nothing from it (but a life lesson that someone could have told me for free), all the lost time and effort and all the money/experience I could have been earning by working instead. Is that person likely to take out more money for a different training? Probably less likely.

Hopefully they got 10k worth of fun and college experience.

There is a good chance that fun college experience was partially responsible for them failing out of school.

 

[NutterButter]

I would be really mad about spending 10k and getting nothing from it (but a life lesson that someone could have told me for free), all the lost time and effort and all the money/experience I could have been earning by working instead. Is that person likely to take out more money for a different training? Probably less likely.

Hopefully they got 10k worth of fun and college experience.

There is a good chance that fun college experience was partially responsible for them failing out of school.

Tell me about it. I'd pay 10k right now for another year of the college experience.

 

[jonessed]

My wife is a college professor and doesn't believe this to be true. She thinks it should be 5th or 6th grade level. Take that FWIW.

My wife is also a college professor, but her complaint is more with their writing skills than reading. She has grad students that have a hard time writing complete sentences sometimes.

I think that's a generational thing that may not have a practical solution.

 

[sn0mm1s]

My guess is that the underlying cause is the internet coupled with stellar word processing programs.

Up until the mid 1990s, if you were assigned a book to read and discuss you had to actually read the book. You might get lucky and obtain a copy of the CliffsNotes or an accurate movie adaptation but that was more of the exception and not the rule. Plagiarizing the CliffsNotes wasn't a very wise thing to do either. Physically writing a paper required a student to plan and think ahead. Mistakes in spelling or grammar weren't highlighted or autocorrected.

By the late 1990s, you could likely find accurate summary of any book in seconds. You could find just about anything regarding the book. Author, themes, theories, etc. etc. - often in a well organized manner were keystrokes away. I knew a guy in college that cut and paste a 10 page paper together in under an hour.

That said, I had a college government professor who wondered/complained/lamented in class as to why students didn't have similar writing skills and vocabulary as many of the founders of the United States. I immediately took out my differential equations, organic chemistry, and physics book out of my backpack and said that my vocabulary and writing skills were just not as focused.

I think for kids to improve their reading and writing skills you need to take the internet and word processing out of the equation. This likely means a different class structure than one we have been using.

 

[Insein]

Standardized tests to comply with NCLB are what's ruining our country. My wife is a teacher. The entire staff is forced to teach towards the PSSA for the first 7 months of school. When they do have reading and writing, it's often presented in the format that it will be shown on the tests. If you try to deviate from this, you could be severely reprimanded or fired dependong on the arbitrary grades your students get in those tests. Kids are tested monthly to biweekly to assess where they stand for the actual test. This is in addition to taking tests and writing papers on subject material.

There's no end in site either.

 

[Lutherman2112]

The article originally posted is complete BS in the classic sense.

“The average reading level for five of the top seven books assigned as summer reading by 341 colleges using Renaissance Learning’s readability formula was rated 7.56 [meaning halfway through seventh grade],”

The stats in this quote were poached from BEACH BOOKS: 2013-2014 What Do Colleges and Universities Want Students to Read Outside Class? This is an annual report put out by the National Association of Scholars, and much of the report is critical of the summer reading programs. Here is a description of the reading assignment and its purpose from the Executive Summary of the report:

Assigning a summer reading to entering freshmen is a growing trend at hundreds of American colleges and universities. Colleges typically pick one book and ask students to read it outside their courses. Many invite the author to help kick off the year by speaking on campus at convocation. The book is often chosen by a committee or by vote. Colleges usually devote several pages of their websites to their common reading programs and promote the reading through social media and school-sponsored events throughout the year. Some associate the book choice with a theme for the academic year, such as “Technology in our lives.”

Most colleges see the key purpose of a common reading program as an opportunity to build community on campus. Many also declare that common reading is important because it sets academic expectations, begins conversations, inspires social activism, and encourages critical thinking.

Of the 341 colleges in report's study, only 16 followed up the reading assignment with an exam. The summer reading assignment for incoming freshman is a social experience, not an academic one. Some universities select a book according to a year long theme, while most simply have group discussions in a social setting.

The top seven books, as mentioned in the quote from the OP, were assigned by 55 universities (top two titles account for 24 assignments: The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks - 13, This I Believe - 11). I searched a handful of titles from the report not included in the top 7 titles, and of those, none were assessed by Renaissance Learning’s readability formula.

For further proof of the BS in the article, check the source: Campus Reform. From their "about" page:

Campus Reform, a project of the Leadership Institute, is America's leading site for college news.

As a watchdog to the nation's higher education system, Campus Reform exposes bias and abuse on the nation's college campuses.

Our team of professional journalists works alongside student activists and student journalists to report on the conduct and misconduct of university administrators, faculty, and students.

Campus Reform holds itself to rigorous journalism standards and strives to present each story with accuracy, objectivity, and public accountability.

 

[SWC]

it does not matter brohans you transfer the associate degree not the reading level take that to the bank bromigo

 

[Prince Myshkin]

it does not matter brohans you transfer the associate degree not the reading level take that to the bank bromigo

 

[dparker713]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

Book report? No one should be writing those past elementary school.

Why's that?

Because a book report is merely a synopsis of the material. Its a check on whether or not you did the reading, but it's mainly busy work. It's nowhere near as useful as having children write original essays.

 

[jonessed]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

Book report? No one should be writing those past elementary school.

Why's that?

Because a book report is merely a synopsis of the material. Its a check on whether or not you did the reading, but it's mainly busy work. It's nowhere near as useful as having children write original essays.

We always had to write essays on how we interpreted aspects of the book and what we thought they meant. At the time I hated it, but it was a good way of checking to make sure the book was read, engaging in critical thinking, and formulating an argument. I always considered these book reports of some fashion.

 

[Christo]

My favorite was the shoe box dioramas.

 

[boots11234]

Perhaps parents should read more with their kids? Unplug the TV? The electronics? My wife, who is 52, well her parents literally cut the cord to the TV when she was 8. She reads like a fiend! (Well before her aneurysm anyways).

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

As someone who went back to college in their 40's, I can attest to this. Kids coming out of High School now are nowhere near as adept at reading/writing as they were 25 years ago or

earlier. I was astonished at how poorly most of my classmates could read and write.

My oldest recently graduated from HS with honors, but can't write worth a darn and

stumbles reading anything out loud. A big part of the problem is that kids aren't forced to read much in school anymore. Many school systems strapped for cash don't even hand out textbooks

to the kids. My middle child is a senior about to graduate, and she's written ONE book report in the last 2 years.

No.

An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Standardized tests to comply with NCLB are what's ruining our country. My wife is a teacher. The entire staff is forced to teach towards the PSSA for the first 7 months of school. When they do have reading and writing, it's often presented in the format that it will be shown on the tests. If you try to deviate from this, you could be severely reprimanded or fired dependong on the arbitrary grades your students get in those tests. Kids are tested monthly to biweekly to assess where they stand for the actual test. This is in addition to taking tests and writing papers on subject material.

There's no end in site either.

An error occurredYou have reached your quota of positive votes for the day

 

[ghostguy123]

This is what happens when the teachers have no power and the schools get sued for everything.

If my kid is at school acting up I want them to get the ruler to the hands or stand in the corner with the dunce cap on, then go home and get punished at home. All of that is bass-ackwards now. The kids go home to no punishment, and the parents yell at the school for not properly raising....er....teaching their kids.

More students per class, teachers unable to control anything because they aren't allowed to........= students reading at a 7th grade level in college.

 

[jhib]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

 

[Sinn Fein]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

Self-fulfilling prophecy?

 

[NutterButter]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

What does it mean? Let's put this to rest once and for all.

 

[Sinn Fein]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

What does it mean? Let's put this to rest once and for all.

pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
   "a room with two beds in it"
   • 
     
     
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"
   

 

[NutterButter]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

What does it mean? Let's put this to rest once and for all.

pronoun

1. 1.
   used to refer to a thing previously mentioned or easily identified.
   "a room with two beds in it"
   • 
     
     
2. 2.
   used to identify a person.
   "it's me"
   

/thread

 

[jhib]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

What does it mean? Let's put this to rest once and for all.

There exists a rating scale that analyzes the vocabulary and sentence structure in a literary work and gives it a grade level. Note that this scale does not take into account the actual content of the work (how mature the theme is, for example).

They took the books that were most often used in college summer reading programs and the average score they got on the rating scale was 7.6 (seventh grade reading level). As lutherman pointed out, these books are usually selected at least as much for their theme as for their level of reading difficulty. And it sounds like the way they came up with that number was by using 5 of the top 7 books assigned by colleges. Even that makes it sound like some cherry-picking was going on.

Since these incoming freshman are reading these books before entering school, they are reading at a 7th grade level before entering school.

No tests were given to rate the ability of the reader.

This has nothing to do with actual reading ability.

 

[cstu]

Since these incoming freshman are reading these books before entering school, they are reading at a 7th grade level before entering school.

No tests were given to rate the ability of the reader.

This has nothing to do with actual reading ability.

Thanks, was wondering how they came up with the this BS.

 

[NutterButter]

People are still acting like this means the average college freshman is unable to read past the seventh grade level?

It's almost like that's what people want to believe.

What does it mean? Let's put this to rest once and for all.

There exists a rating scale that analyzes the vocabulary and sentence structure in a literary work and gives it a grade level. Note that this scale does not take into account the actual content of the work (how mature the theme is, for example).

They took the books that were most often used in college summer reading programs and the average score they got on the rating scale was 7.6 (seventh grade reading level). As lutherman pointed out, these books are usually selected at least as much for their theme as for their level of reading difficulty. And it sounds like the way they came up with that number was by using 5 of the top 7 books assigned by colleges. Even that makes it sound like some cherry-picking was going on.

Since these incoming freshman are reading these books before entering school, they are reading at a 7th grade level before entering school.

No tests were given to rate the ability of the reader.

This has nothing to do with actual reading ability.

Thanks for clearing that up

 

[Ilov80s]

My wife read Divergent last month which means she reads at a 5th grade level and she is a U of M graduate, so Michigan must be a pretty crappy school and my wife is a moron.