Bad calls by the REAL Refs today? (1 Viewer)

[Raider Nation]

You were right, B&Brew -- these refs DO suck. But that doesn't make the replacement refs any better, because they were a joke too.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

 

[Alex P Keaton]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

Absolutely. The past few years, it has been bad to the point of embarrassment.

 

[Raider Nation]

Nice roughing the passer call. I give up.

 

[Gandalf the Grey]

Nice roughing the passer call. I give up.

Yeah, I hate the 49'ers but that call was just horrible. Newton turns into him but the defender takes the penalty? Just terrible.

 

[flapgreen]

I can't believe this stuff is allowed to happen. Awful

 

[Class Dismissed]

It's like the NFL desires and needs a certain level of incompetence from its game officials......for some reason.......

 

[Gargoylez]

Worst year ever.

 

[Godsbrother]

Worst year ever.

Agreed. The officiating has been terrible and the worst part inconsistent. I could see a little variance between different officiating crews but these inconsistencies are occurring in the same game.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.

I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

 

[The Commish]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

 

[GroveDiesel]

You were right, B&Brew -- these refs DO suck. But that doesn't make the replacement refs any better, because they were a joke too.

I thought everyone realized that the "replacement" refs were always a temporary thing. Temporary refs was probably a more accurate term. Nobody expected them to be as good, especially with no time to prepare or experience working together.

But the NFL needed time to force the original refs to agree to mostly full time officials and a process to bring you get refs in. But the sports media protected their union brethren, gullible fans bought the garbage the union and writers were feeding them and the NFL was forced to cave.

The league tried to do the right thing and what was best for the league. The only ones to blame are all the fans who were screaming at the NFL about the "replacement" refs. You guys are the ones we have to thank for the terrible quality of officiating we see out there now. Goodell was absolutely in the right on this one and it's time fans admit that he was right and they were wrong.

 

[Godsbrother]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

The refs have proven on more than one occasion that they either can't or just don't bother to count. See the Chargers-Chiefs game in Week 17.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

The Niners also had 12 men in the huddle on Kaepernick's TD. That's why Keuchly was freaking out so much after the TD.

There's a ref whose only job pre-snap is to watch for that.

I don't know that I can recall a divisional playoff round with so many atrocious calls. Horrible PI calls. Horrendous personal fouls called. That Indy WR being wrapped up and thrown to the ground while the ball was in the air. Luck being obviously tripped. Boldin's headbutt. On and on.

Of course, it's obvious how bad officiating is when Jeff Triplett's crew is getting a divisional playoff game.

 

[snogger]

Worst year ever.

The refs wanted to become "Full-time" Refs, the league said No.. so the Refs are holding a "silent" protest by making some absolutely absurd calls..

None worse then the phantom TD given to the Bengals after it had already been ruled he was tackled and they reversed it with replay

 

[GroveDiesel]

Worst year ever.

The refs wanted to become "Full-time" Refs, the league said No.. so the Refs are holding a "silent" protest by making some absolutely absurd calls..

None worse then the phantom TD given to the Bengals after it had already been ruled he was tackled and they reversed it with replay

You have it backwards. The NFL wanted them to become full time. The refs wanted to keep their lucrative day jobs (most are high powered lawyers and executives).

 

[BassNBrew]

You were right, B&Brew -- these refs DO suck. But that doesn't make the replacement refs any better, because they were a joke too.

I'll agree that they were a joke, but the reason they were there was to fix this problem. I stated at the time that caving to the real refs was a short term fix and long term mistake. I would have preferred year of replacement mistakes if it would have resulted in a better long term solution. I'm almost at the point of giving up on the NFL. Too many of these games are being decided by bad calls.

 

[RUSF18]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

College refs are having plenty of issues too. How do you expect to fill these jobs?

 

[snogger]

Worst year ever.

The refs wanted to become "Full-time" Refs, the league said No.. so the Refs are holding a "silent" protest by making some absolutely absurd calls..

None worse then the phantom TD given to the Bengals after it had already been ruled he was tackled and they reversed it with replay

You have it backwards. The NFL wanted them to become full time. The refs wanted to keep their lucrative day jobs (most are high powered lawyers and executives).

Since the doesn't work that way you have to start somewhere..

 

[Bills_Fan11]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

Also, the PI on Florence but Bowman riding Olsen 8 yards up the field on the int was cool.

Man, I really had no rooting interest but that was the most 1sided officiating I've seen in a playoff game since the Pitt-Seattle SB.

If those 1st half calls were flipped, Harbaugh would've had 7.5 heart attacks before going on a killing spree.

 

[Spin]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

It's been pointed out a few times now, that it wasn't a penalty because the ball had not been marked ready for play.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/referee-explains-no-flag-49ers-12-men-huddle

Referee Carl Cheffers said after the game that he saw the same thing the FOX cameras showed the entire country. But he said he had not yet marked the ball ready for play, so there was no penalty.

With 37 seconds remaining in the half and the 49ers with possession at the Carolina Panthers’ 1-yard line, offensive linemen Adam Snyder and Daniel Kilgore reported as eligible receivers. Tight end Vance McDonald was also in the huddle before running off the field.

Cheffers told a pool reporter that he was going through the process of announcing the linemen were eligible.

“I saw the player (McDonald) come off, but I had not yet marked the ball ready for play, so that is why I did not call it as a foul,” Cheffers said. “The ball was not in play, yet. That’s why I didn’t call the foul on the play.”

From the NFL Rule book.

Rule 5 Section 2 Article 1 There can never be more than 11 players in the offensive huddle while the play clock is running. If there is a foul, the whistle is blown immediately, and the ball remains dead.

 

[Bills_Fan11]

It's been pointed out a few times now, that it wasn't a penalty because the ball had not been marked ready for play.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/referee-explains-no-flag-49ers-12-men-huddle

And as pointed out by Shutdown Corner, Cheffers is either lying or stupid.

 

[Spin]

It's been pointed out a few times now, that it wasn't a penalty because the ball had not been marked ready for play.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/referee-explains-no-flag-49ers-12-men-huddle

And as pointed out by Shutdown Corner, Cheffers is either lying or stupid.

I can't find any video of the play on youtube, checked shutdown corner and they don't have a link either. Do you know of one?

 

[Bills_Fan11]

It's been pointed out a few times now, that it wasn't a penalty because the ball had not been marked ready for play.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/referee-explains-no-flag-49ers-12-men-huddle

And as pointed out by Shutdown Corner, Cheffers is either lying or stupid.

I can't find any video of the play on youtube, checked shutdown corner and they don't have a link either. Do you know of one?

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/did-referees-cost-carolina-shot-nfc-championship-000842001--nfl.html

 

[Class Dismissed]

Found it interesting that the Umpire who has responsibility for counting the players on the field and in the huiddle during the CAR v. SF game is the very same official who blew the easy illegal formation call on the Succop kick at the end of regulation in the KC v. SD game that likely altered the NFL playoff participants.

Yeah, THAT guy drew a NFL playoff assignment.

 

[Obie Wan]

All the posters claiming the refs suck may be missing a key point.

Many calls may be inconsistent, unfair or blatantly wrong, but there may be something more sinister at work than incompetent refs.

The elephant in the room is that the officials may very well be working to a script designed to get certain results desired by the NFL (or others).

Whether that be closer than expected games to keep viewer interest or preferred winners for subsequent playoff rounds.

so those refs that "look" the most incompetent may be getting premium playoff game assignments because of their ability to deliver preferred outcomes in the clutch.

 

[Breesisdaman]

The refs look the other way far too often. If you can get away with being physically aggressive like the Seahawks, 49ers, Panthers, and several other teams and don't draw the flag then hell why doesn't every defense follow suit? I hope my Saints turn into a bunch of rough housing thugs next year and lay hits on receivers before the ball gets there. Why? because it works.

 

[Chaz McNulty]

All the posters claiming the refs suck may be missing a key point.

Many calls may be inconsistent, unfair or blatantly wrong, but there may be something more sinister at work than incompetent refs.

The elephant in the room is that the officials may very well be working to a script designed to get certain results desired by the NFL (or others).

Whether that be closer than expected games to keep viewer interest or preferred winners for subsequent playoff rounds.

so those refs that "look" the most incompetent may be getting premium playoff game assignments because of their ability to deliver preferred outcomes in the clutch.

I think it's more likely that the sinister aspect would be a rogue official calling it one way for personal gain. It doesn't take much to affect the outcome of a game. A holding penalty here, a PI there. I really think that every single call needs to be looked at by the league to make sure that nothing funny is going on. They should be especially concerned with calls (or non-calls) that prevent or allow big plays. It's easy to call offensive or defensive pass interference on almost every play. I'm always suspect when a flag comes in 3 seconds after the play ends.

 

[The Commish]

Also, Munnerlyn gets flagged for headbutting Crabtree. Then Boldin headbutts a Panthers defender.... but that one's all good.

My favorite one of yesterday was the 12 man in the huddle missed call at the end of the first half where the ref almost got run over by the guy trying to get off the field for SF.

It's been pointed out a few times now, that it wasn't a penalty because the ball had not been marked ready for play.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/referee-explains-no-flag-49ers-12-men-huddle

Referee Carl Cheffers said after the game that he saw the same thing the FOX cameras showed the entire country. But he said he had not yet marked the ball ready for play, so there was no penalty.

With 37 seconds remaining in the half and the 49ers with possession at the Carolina Panthers’ 1-yard line, offensive linemen Adam Snyder and Daniel Kilgore reported as eligible receivers. Tight end Vance McDonald was also in the huddle before running off the field.

Cheffers told a pool reporter that he was going through the process of announcing the linemen were eligible.

“I saw the player (McDonald) come off, but I had not yet marked the ball ready for play, so that is why I did not call it as a foul,” Cheffers said. “The ball was not in play, yet. That’s why I didn’t call the foul on the play.”

From the NFL Rule book.

Rule 5 Section 2 Article 1 There can never be more than 11 players in the offensive huddle while the play clock is running. If there is a foul, the whistle is blown immediately, and the ball remains dead.

He was walking back to his spot to begin the play after the ball was spotted when he almost got ran over...I know what he said in his own defense, but he was lying through his teeth Doesn't much matter at this point though.

 

[solorca]

Found it interesting that the Umpire who has responsibility for counting the players on the field and in the huiddle during the CAR v. SF game is the very same official who blew the easy illegal formation call on the Succop kick at the end of regulation in the KC v. SD game that likely altered the NFL playoff participants.

Yeah, THAT guy drew a NFL playoff assignment.

He's also the ref that STeve Smith publicly called "garbage" earlier in the year because of how terrible he was the last time he reffed a panthers game. Clearly he was the best option.

 

[treat88]

.I know what he said in his own defense, but he was lying through his teeth

Dean Blandino, head of NFL officiating does this regularly and publicly when trying to justify the horrific calls his crews make. It's all about protecting the shield.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

 

[Scoresman]

All the posters claiming the refs suck may be missing a key point.

Many calls may be inconsistent, unfair or blatantly wrong, but there may be something more sinister at work than incompetent refs.

The elephant in the room is that the officials may very well be working to a script designed to get certain results desired by the NFL (or others).

Whether that be closer than expected games to keep viewer interest or preferred winners for subsequent playoff rounds.

so those refs that "look" the most incompetent may be getting premium playoff game assignments because of their ability to deliver preferred outcomes in the clutch.

I think it's more likely that the sinister aspect would be a rogue official calling it one way for personal gain. It doesn't take much to affect the outcome of a game. A holding penalty here, a PI there. I really think that every single call needs to be looked at by the league to make sure that nothing funny is going on. They should be especially concerned with calls (or non-calls) that prevent or allow big plays. It's easy to call offensive or defensive pass interference on almost every play. I'm always suspect when a flag comes in 3 seconds after the play ends.

On the contrary, I'd like to see them take longer to throw the flag. I'd rather they take an extra second or two to think about it and decide what the right call is than be pressured to make an immediate snap judgment. Because replays need indisputable proof to overturn a call, getting the call on the field right more often than not becomes very important.

Case in point, the Vernon Davis sideline TD yesterday. The replay wasn't even close. It was clearly a TD. The ref who had the clear view of the play and made the call made it incredibly quickly. I don't know how it was possible for him to process all of the variables of whether or not it was a catch in that time.

 

[Rove!]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

better than these guys

All the scrutiny those guys were under and mistakes were scarce. The sports media bends over backwards for the "real" refs and mistakes are commonplace.

 

[DropKick]

Some of the calls I thought were borderline (and I missed most of SF/Carolina)...

Roughing the QB when Newton spun into the defender... No one in their right mind makes that call.

The FG that appeared to over the upright... I know its a difficult angle to determine but a closer look would have been interesting.

The Julius Thomas "fumble"... appeared he was struggling with control and lost the ball going to the ground. I didn't see a "football move" - I think an incomplete pass made the most sense.

PI on Welker... feet tangled but looked well over thrown. Probably not a big factor since a defensive holding was called on the same play.

Four or five "block in the back" calls over the week-end... How about a replay for the audience's sake?

 

[Raider Nation]

Roughing the QB when Newton spun into the defender... No one in their right mind makes that call.

I mentioned that yesterday. Brutally terrible call. Literally unbelievable that a flag was thrown on that play.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

PI on Welker... feet tangled but looked well over thrown. Probably not a big factor since a defensive holding was called on the same play.

That looked like a good call to me.

 

[DropKick]

PI on Welker... feet tangled but looked well over thrown. Probably not a big factor since a defensive holding was called on the same play.

That looked like a good call to me.

Plenty of contact but the ball was well overthrown and Welker was not exactly zipping up field. The "uncatchable" aspect is highly subjective.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

PI on Welker... feet tangled but looked well over thrown. Probably not a big factor since a defensive holding was called on the same play.

That looked like a good call to me.

Plenty of contact but the ball was well overthrown and Welker was not exactly zipping up field. The "uncatchable" aspect is highly subjective.

All that early contact plus the tripping led to him being far short on his route.

 

[sporthenry]

PI on Welker... feet tangled but looked well over thrown. Probably not a big factor since a defensive holding was called on the same play.

That looked like a good call to me.

Plenty of contact but the ball was well overthrown and Welker was not exactly zipping up field. The "uncatchable" aspect is highly subjective.

All that early contact plus the tripping led to him being far short on his route.

Early contact is legal and wouldn't be PI then. The holding wasn't called on him. It was a bad call. It was incidental contact with the feet and uncatchable on top of that. As others mentioned, there was holding elsewhere so it wasn't as game changing as it could have been.

 

[Not Sleeping]

Thought this might be a good time to remember what may be the worst call in the history of the league.

http://youtu.be/UEYIBhGAFVs?t=33s

EDIT: Sorry to subject you to ESPN C'Mon Man, but it was the best clip I could find (in my 2 seconds of searching).

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Thought this might be a good time to remember what may be the worst call in the history of the league.

http://youtu.be/UEYIBhGAFVs?t=33s

EDIT: Sorry to subject you to ESPN C'Mon Man, but it was the best clip I could find (in my 2 seconds of searching).

HFS.

 

[Neofight]

All the posters claiming the refs suck may be missing a key point.

Many calls may be inconsistent, unfair or blatantly wrong, but there may be something more sinister at work than incompetent refs.

The elephant in the room is that the officials may very well be working to a script designed to get certain results desired by the NFL (or others).

Whether that be closer than expected games to keep viewer interest or preferred winners for subsequent playoff rounds.

so those refs that "look" the most incompetent may be getting premium playoff game assignments because of their ability to deliver preferred outcomes in the clutch.

I think it's more likely that the sinister aspect would be a rogue official calling it one way for personal gain. It doesn't take much to affect the outcome of a game. A holding penalty here, a PI there. I really think that every single call needs to be looked at by the league to make sure that nothing funny is going on. They should be especially concerned with calls (or non-calls) that prevent or allow big plays. It's easy to call offensive or defensive pass interference on almost every play. I'm always suspect when a flag comes in 3 seconds after the play ends.

On the contrary, I'd like to see them take longer to throw the flag. I'd rather they take an extra second or two to think about it and decide what the right call is than be pressured to make an immediate snap judgment. Because replays need indisputable proof to overturn a call, getting the call on the field right more often than not becomes very important.

Case in point, the Vernon Davis sideline TD yesterday. The replay wasn't even close. It was clearly a TD. The ref who had the clear view of the play and made the call made it incredibly quickly. I don't know how it was possible for him to process all of the variables of whether or not it was a catch in that time.

On an unbiased closer look, Davis was clearly shifting the ball between his left and right hand as he went to leap. I believe the ref saw that and lost track of where his feet were. Whether Davis had a toe on the line before he possessed the ball or not, it was clearly a close call and could have gone either way on review.

But I don't think this is at all the type of play the OP is talking about. TD's are going to be reviewed regardless and have nothing to do with late flags flying in from out of the frame seconds after a play is over.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

The NFL wasn't intending on those guys becoming full time.

They were trying to force the current guys to become full time, create a system that more easily got rid of bad refs, and create a better training pipeline for new younger refs. There were also negotiations over pay scale and pensions.

The current guys wouldn't agree to that, talks broke down and the NFL was forced to either start canceling games or bring in temporary replacement refs while they tried to force the ref's union to agree to become full time refs and all that other stuff.

The current refs do not want to be full time. The NFL wants them to be full time. That was a huge part of the issue last year.

 

[ConnSKINS26]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

The NFL wasn't intending on those guys becoming full time.

They were trying to force the current guys to become full time, create a system that more easily got rid of bad refs, and create a better training pipeline for new younger refs. There were also negotiations over pay scale and pensions.

The current guys wouldn't agree to that, talks broke down and the NFL was forced to either start canceling games or bring in temporary replacement refs while they tried to force the ref's union to agree to become full time refs and all that other stuff.

The current refs do not want to be full time. The NFL wants them to be full time. That was a huge part of the issue last year.

Right. I don't think the current refs are the ones you want to be full-time, either. They already have careers and frankly, they've already proven that they suck. The NFL can do better.

 

[Neofight]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

The NFL wasn't intending on those guys becoming full time. They were trying to force the current guys to become full time, create a system that more easily got rid of bad refs, and create a better training pipeline for new younger refs. There were also negotiations over pay scale and pensions.

The current guys wouldn't agree to that, talks broke down and the NFL was forced to either start canceling games or bring in temporary replacement refs while they tried to force the ref's union to agree to become full time refs and all that other stuff.

The current refs do not want to be full time. The NFL wants them to be full time. That was a huge part of the issue last year.

Right. I don't think the current refs are the ones you want to be full-time, either. They already have careers and frankly, they've already proven that they suck. The NFL can do better.

Agree with these posts; the NFL (and the fans) missed a huge opportunity last season. Unfortunately it was the fans to some degree-induced by an hysterical chicken little mentality media-that were somewhat to blame for the failure to get a sustainable and functional agreement.The replacement refs were never that bad and the current crop of refs never so good as to warrant the outcome of those negotiations. Bad business all around, unless you're a tenured NFL official.

 

[BassNBrew]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

The NFL wasn't intending on those guys becoming full time.They were trying to force the current guys to become full time, create a system that more easily got rid of bad refs, and create a better training pipeline for new younger refs. There were also negotiations over pay scale and pensions.

The current guys wouldn't agree to that, talks broke down and the NFL was forced to either start canceling games or bring in temporary replacement refs while they tried to force the ref's union to agree to become full time refs and all that other stuff.

The current refs do not want to be full time. The NFL wants them to be full time. That was a huge part of the issue last year.

Right. I don't think the current refs are the ones you want to be full-time, either. They already have careers and frankly, they've already proven that they suck. The NFL can do better.

Agree with these posts; the NFL (and the fans) missed a huge opportunity last season. Unfortunately it was the fans to some degree-induced by an hysterical chicken little mentality media-that were somewhat to blame for the failure to get a sustainable and functional agreement.The replacement refs were never that bad and the current crop of refs never so good as to warrant the outcome of those negotiations. Bad business all around, unless you're a tenured NFL official.

This board was raising cane about bringing back the real refs. Probably 90% of the board was against the league's position.

 

[Neofight]

To the point of this thread, two no-calls from the Seahawks vs. Saints game on Saturday: the fumble by Robinson that should have been challenged and (for some reason nobody seemed to notice this) Corey White intentionally removing Doug Baldwin's helmet after the 24 yard completion for a first down. Pretty sure that's a personal foul.

These were just the most obvious missed calls of a poorly officiated game.

 

[Neofight]

Something needs to be done about the reffing in this league. These billionaire owners need to shell out for younger, full-time refs dedicated fully to their craft. Smart guys, athletic enough to keep up, good eyesight, competitive atmosphere to make the best calls. Make it a viable career.

The NFL tried to do exactly that. The current refs fought tooth and nail and got the sports media and fans to believe that they were all irreplaceable and that the temporary refs were destroying the NFL. So we ended up back to part time crappy refs.I mean, dopes like Peter King, Mike Florio and Bill Simmons were ALL saying that the NFL product was literally being destroyed by the temporary refs and that the damage could be permanent. Turns out, the only permanent damage was in bringing back the original refs.

Those replacement refs aren't the type of solution I'm talking about. Those were just scab refs. They were even worse.

The NFL wasn't intending on those guys becoming full time.They were trying to force the current guys to become full time, create a system that more easily got rid of bad refs, and create a better training pipeline for new younger refs. There were also negotiations over pay scale and pensions.

The current guys wouldn't agree to that, talks broke down and the NFL was forced to either start canceling games or bring in temporary replacement refs while they tried to force the ref's union to agree to become full time refs and all that other stuff.

The current refs do not want to be full time. The NFL wants them to be full time. That was a huge part of the issue last year.

Right. I don't think the current refs are the ones you want to be full-time, either. They already have careers and frankly, they've already proven that they suck. The NFL can do better.

Agree with these posts; the NFL (and the fans) missed a huge opportunity last season. Unfortunately it was the fans to some degree-induced by an hysterical chicken little mentality media-that were somewhat to blame for the failure to get a sustainable and functional agreement.The replacement refs were never that bad and the current crop of refs never so good as to warrant the outcome of those negotiations. Bad business all around, unless you're a tenured NFL official.

This board was raising cane about bringing back the real refs. Probably 90% of the board was against the league's position.

I remember the uproar, particularly after the Golden Tate TD. Turns out that wasn't such a bad call, relatively speaking.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

You were right, B&Brew -- these refs DO suck. But that doesn't make the replacement refs any better, because they were a joke too.

And that short-sightedness right there is why we're stuck with the horrible game-changing ref'ing that we get in the current NFL.

Obviously, the replacement refs weren't that good. But there are a few things to consider. Firstly, the guys who were brought in as replacements weren't the long-term replacements. They were the short-term guys forced to fill-in because the poor ambivalent NFL refs blocked the NFL from using the long-term replacements in their stead.

Secondly, and mainly is the point that the replacements weren't really much worse, but short-sighted reactionists were fooled into believing as much both by the media fixating more on bad calls in light of the debate and by the reactionists own desire to make a point.

The bottom line is that, in addition to money (which is always at the center of these things), the major sticking points of the strike were that the NFL wanted to institute policies to make referees better and the refs wanted no part of that. Full-time referees that can be disciplined on a weekly basis are obviously going to be SIGNIFICANTLY better in the long-term than refs doing it as their 2nd job with no threat of discipline for doing badly until the following year. The ref strike was basically "we want to continue doing a half-assed job of this in our spare time rather than you put together a full-time crew that has to do well" and the media and people's own twisted perspective somehow turned that into the side of the "good guys".

You reap what you sow, and these bad, game-changing calls that have drastically altered the outcome of this season and already had large effects on the playoffs are exactly the fault of the people that couldn't see the forest through the trees. You got your "real" refs back. You just forgot that these are the same guys you had just spent the last 10 years complaining about, and you ruined the one chance you had of them getting any better.