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BECKHAM IS A BROWN!!!!!!!!! (FOR REAL) (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Soulfly3
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rockaction
Footballguy
I went to bed after this happened and I wasn't sure this was real. Gettleman is like the guy from Airplane! that picked the wrong week to stop sniffing glue.
Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01 
), so investing a large % of your cap at WR doesn't seem like a wise move until they find their QB of the future. Upgrading the OL, however, does make sense. I wanted to see them sign Foles, but maybe they'll trade for Rosen.
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
), so investing a large % of your cap at WR doesn't seem like a wise move until they find their QB of the future. Upgrading the OL, however, does make sense. I wanted to see them sign Foles, but maybe they'll trade for Rosen.Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
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rockaction
Footballguy
It was the culmination of a bad series of moves for them. Yes, they got 17 and a back-end third rounder, but they certainly didn't get much for one of the game's best players. They got a guy who is worse in coverage than Collins, who they could have franchised. Yes, Peppers is cost controlled, but that doesn't make it a good swap.Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
But this is universally panned and one is thinking too much if one doesn't pan it. Yes, the reason this was done was to save the WR cap hit in upcoming years. But then why did Gettleman sign him to the deal in the first place?
Jed
Footballguy
What's the point of OBJ rotting on the Giants in their rebuilding years?
As a Giants fan I'm loving this deal. Gets rid of a diva who was going to do them no good as far as winning SB's, and picks to rebuild. I also think it was a great deal for the Browns.
It IS possible for a deal to be great for both teams, and this is it.
Jed
Footballguy
So much wrong in this post. What is the point of franchising Collins? Yes, things turn around fast in the NFL, but the Giants won't compete for 2 years minimum.
I'm sure they leveraged SF vs the Browns and got the best deal they could. I'm thrilled.
rockaction
Footballguy
My post is pretty standard for football experts today. They've been trying to figure out what Gettleman has been doing for weeks, even writing long profiles about the direction of the Giants because nobody gets it.
Sometimes, nobody gets it and you're a genius.
Sometimes, you're just rank incompetent.
This looks like the latter.
I assume you mean the talking heads - this means nothing to me. They routinely endorse awful trades, saying thing like "you'll never get a player of this caliber at 1.17" without thinking about salary cap implications. There's a reason those people are only employed to talk - they have entertainment value, but not actual smarts. The Giants are a team in transition, without a reliable QB and with salary cap issues. It makes no sense to invest a ton of money in a malcontent WR. I really think this was a win-win. FWIW, I don't really like their moves a year ago. I don't think drafting Barkely was wise (due to the rookie pay scale, I believe Barkley was a top 5 paid RB immediately) and I thought it was time to move on from Eli, instead they passed to make the aforementioned RB draft pick. And like you mentioned, the time to move on from OBJ was last year - should've done a tag and trade, although they almost certainly would have gotten less (but wouldn't have had the cap hit due to accelerated signing bonus).
Why would they franchise Collins, though? One year deals are fruitless at this point. They aren't going to win in 2019 with Eli.
rockaction
Footballguy
I only got this far and will respond to the rest later, as I have to run in a few and want to post something thoughtful.
I don't go by talking heads either. Neither for news nor sports. To me, like you, they mean very very little. Every so often you get a nugget of wisdom, so it's worthy to hear many voices, but there's only time for so many, so...
I meant like the main writers at SI and ESPN (Bill Barnwell at ESPN and Conor Orr at MMQB/SI). I find that they do a pretty good job on the national beat. I have not read PFF or Football Outsiders yet as I went to bed early.
rockaction
Footballguy
And I did think about OBJ and the cap hit right when they signed him, so I'm no stranger to thinking about him, at WR, as the biggest cap hit. I didn't like it then.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
It's not necessarily a bad move for the Giants. Like any trade, it will take years to really assess who won and who lost. OBJ could go on to be a thorn in the Browns' side, have nagging injuries, and not get on the same page with Mayfield. No matter what, we know he will continue to be a salary cap drain.Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
The Giants could end up getting All Pro seasons from Peppers, drafting two long terms starters for low dollars with the picks they acquired (or using them to get someone else they really want), free up a lot of cap space (beyond the initial cap hit for trading OBJ), and creating better chemistry for the team.
We have no idea at this point how things will turn out.The Giants could go through a quick rebuild and turn things around. The Browns, while very talented, could still struggle and still be the Browns. It will take time to better get a feel for how this trade turned out.
garlicduck
Footballguy
OBJ and Landry on the same team...that means the Browns will definitely lead the NFL in one-handed catches this year! 
Yes, I obviously agree, but we can evaluate the trade from the data we know, using probability and strategy. I think unloading the cap space and improving the OL was a positive for the Giants strategically. Paying a top tier (but disgruntled) WR $18M/year while struggling from a salary cap perspective and while utilizing a below average, old QB would have been a poor move strategically. A 1st and 3rd are definitely not locks to succeed, but they are both decent picks which have the potential to really help the franchise if they pan out due to the locked, reasonable contracts. While people can kick and scream that it wasn't enough, the fact is that a player already getting top compensation is hard to trade. If they were to have traded OBJ after his rookie year while still having 4 years remaining on his contract, they'd have gotten much more than after the huge payday. I feel like many people fail to take this into account.
And lead the NFL in dropped one handed catches that could have been caught if two hands were used...OBJ and Landry on the same team...that means the Browns will definitely lead the NFL in one-handed catches this year!
Hankmoody
Footballguy
Hankmoody
Footballguy
ghostguy123
Footballguy
With QB and pass rusher on cheap deals, should they not spend money elsewhere just because the recommended money allocation would be messed up???Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
And how long ago do you think people were saying this about Cleveland?
It's a terrible series of moves for them. If they hit on QB they had a ready-made offense for him and only needing to address O-line. Zeitler was good progress on that, and they could have kept that up in FA and the draft. Plus a good QB can provide a lot of his own. The biggest problem their OL has is Eli's deer-in-headlights play. Partly from his over-reactions, party from the offense not providing him good outs. Both Murray and Haskins, via opposite mechanism, will make their OL look a lot better if given the right play calling.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Hunt and Chubb paired together will not help fantasy wise (once Hunt gets back on the field). Certainly there is a chance Hunt misses significant time.
Oh, I agree - they have to spend that money somewhere. I just thought it was notable. And I think Landry is an easy cut next year IF they need cap space.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Why did a rebuilding team sign a 38 year old safety to replace Collins? I think the issue is Gettleman's moves are all over the place. Keep Eli, draft a RB, trade for Ogletree, sign an over the hill Stewart and the Cardinal's safety (all win now moves)...and then also making rebuild moves like this one? So which direction are they really going?
I'll be shocked if he manages the 10 targets per game he was getting with the Giants. I'm going to say 140 targets for OBJ and 110 for Landry.
Yes, great news for Chubb, although he'll need Corbett to at least be a competent replacement for Zeitler and they still need to upgrade OT. I'm personally not concerned with Hunt's presence. He's going to miss a lot of time, but more importantly he's simply not the talent that Chubb is. And he's not the pass blocker than Duke is, so I really don't expect to see much Hunt even when he comes back from suspension. I suspect he's nothing more than cheap RB insurance - which is not a bad idea. Odds are good that one of CLE's two main RBs miss a few games at some point this year. Just the nature of the position.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
While I do think this will work out fine, I would also be a little leery of two hotheads like Baker and Beckham not getting along very well. It's surely worth that small risk though - this was a no brainer trade for the Browns.
I don't keep up with this kind of thing, but I seem to remember him being a Yankees fan, too.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yes, Yankees as well. He's been at games and I've seen pictures of him in Yankee caps.
matttyl
Footballguy
He didn't hit 1,000 yards on 148 targets last year. I get that the targets may be better this year on average, and likely less coverage - but getting 1,000 yards on only 110 targets will be tough.
Yenrub
Footballguy
They got some of the OL help they needed by trading for Zeitler. Don’t get me wrong they still need to get a RT but they can get that in FA (Williams from Carolina maybe)Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
This trade didn’t help them in the cash department at all, the dead cap hit on OBJ is huge.
Eli should be coming off the books next year, so their QB wouldn’t have a huge cap number which makes it much easier to deal with OBJ’s big cap number.
Yenrub
Footballguy
Yep. I wouldn't hold out hope for 1000 yards or 5 TDs.
Yes, I specifically mentioned Zeitler. The dead cap hit is only applied to 2019, which was a lost year for the franchise anyway. Getting Eli and OBJ off the books in 2020 will give them a lot of breathing room. And if they decide to go with a FA rather than a rookie, they'll need the extra space.
matttyl
Footballguy
Been offered the #11 rookie pick for Landry. Wouldn't have done it Monday, looks like I have to do it now.
Jello_Biafra
Footballguy
Sebowski
Footballguy
Cooper did enough with cowboys to earn some faith. Alshon is great when Foles is throwing him the ball. Wait...
Sebowski
Footballguy
RBs should be the last piece you try to add, not the first. Barely is going to set records with his next contract.
Jed
Footballguy
Explain to me why franchising Collins is a good move for a years from contending team. I'll wait.
rockaction
Footballguy
Jed
Footballguy
Not sure why it's confusing to dump a diva WR with a bloated contract on a non-contending team.
Jacksonke1
Footballguy
At least the Browns will be a fun game watch now
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Browns over/under on Primetime Games this year?
I'll set it at 3.5. I think I'd take the under to start the year but with the FLEX schedule it likely goes over.
Bobcat10
Footballguy
Is every team guaranteed 1 still? Not sure the answer matters, I think they could easily get 4 out of the approx 100 primetime game team slots to fill. The league will have the always popular AFC North matchups to choose from and some juicy matchups (NE, LAR, SEA, maybe DEN) they probably were already looking at promoting before yesterday.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
4 is a lot for a non-marquee franchise but that would not surprise me. There's far less than 100 prime-time games: (Thurs-Sun-Mon for 17 weeks = 51, and while there are a few Saturday Night games at end of season, the Thursday games stop around Week 15 or so).
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
I didn't say there were 100 primetime games, just there were over 100 slots to fill in those 50 or so games. But since the matchups are determined already, the slots don't mean much so that was not the best choice of words for me to use. I still think I'd go over but the line you set is probably the right one.
Not gonna touch the non-marquee franchise label, I'm too excited to worry about that!
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I've found this one super interesting, @FF Ninja And full disclosure, I don't hang on every move in free agency. I treat it a lot like the NFL Draft, I'm interested of course. But I'm way more interested after the fact. In other words, I care very little whether Le'Veon Bell's holdout move worked or not. I care a TON about what he'll do in 2019 with the Jets. That's where our job at FBG is not very much like a normal sportswriter. They all want to talk about what happened. And rightfully so. I want to talk about what will happen.Why are people so adamant this was a bad trade for the Giants? The Giants were cash strapped and needed OL help. They offloaded Vernon ($17M/yr) and OBJ ($18M/yr) and picked up the 1.17, a 3rd, a 1st round DB still on his rookie contract (2 years left + club option year), and some much needed OL help (Zeitler). This was not a bad pair of trades for them. While the Browns can afford to pay OBJ, I'd argue that paying a WR $18M/yr is not necessarily the best path to success in the NFL. The Giants still have Shepard (former 2.09 pick) and Engram (1.23), not to mention reclamation project, Corey Coleman (1.15). But no matter who they have, they are saddled with Eli (1.01
Going by average salary, Cleveland now has 17.6% of its salary cap tied to OBJ and Landry. With Baker on a rookie deal, that's doable, but damn. I hated the Landry contract at the time, but if they need space in 2020 (I've got no clue what they'll look like then), they really should cut him after 2019 (only 4.5M dead cap). The Zeitler trade made sense for them, though, as they had Austin Corbett (2018 2.01) waiting in the wings at OG.
ETA: I forgot to mention that OBJ was clearly not happy in NY and becoming a distraction.
With that said, I found myself on an island last night with most of the FBG staff in disbelief the Browns could ever rob the Giants so badly. I saw it much more like you.
What I find interesting is people seem to think a mid first and a third round pick have little value. That's quite a bit.
I asked someone today what would be fair compensation for Beckham. He said there was no possible compensation that would be fair.
I think there's always a price.
And what we don't know of course is if he wanted out. The talk from management about Barkley being the leader people wanted to follow last year wasn't too hard to read.
I asked someone today what would be fair compensation for Beckham. He said there was no possible compensation that would be fair.
I think there's always a price.
And what we don't know of course is if he wanted out. The talk from management about Barkley being the leader people wanted to follow last year wasn't too hard to read.
Soulfly3
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
True, my bad on that - you're right.
and no offense was meant by implying the Browns were a "non-marquee franchise" - I think we all know that there's a handful of teams (New England, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Green Bay...) that are going to gobble up the Prime Time slots each and every season.
