Belichick, Pioli Speak out on Spygate, Walsh (1 Viewer)

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

 

[twitch]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

 

[freelander]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Well, I'm a man without a team (I could, but I choose not to and just enjoy Fantasy Football)... me thinks (at least here) its less about their teams getting beat by those cheating Pats but more having to listen to the likes of you guys (not so much you twitch) all year long... (where the heck is babynewyear?!?)

 

[Obie Wan]

"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said.

Anyone else find the above language used by Bellicheat curious.

Of course he's never seen film produced by another team- the tape he or his staff would be viewing would have been created by his employee.

Also interesting is that the Boston paper was fed specific quotes so the exact wording could be controlled. Bellicheat did not give an interview to discuss the matter.

 

[Road Warriors]

"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said. Anyone else find the above language used by Bellicheat curious.Of course he's never seen film produced by another team- the tape he or his staff would be viewing would have been created by his employee. Also interesting is that the Boston paper was fed specific quotes so the exact wording could be controlled. Bellicheat did not give an interview to discuss the matter.

 

[Das Boot]

"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said.

Anyone else find the above language used by Bellicheat curious.

Of course he's never seen film produced by another team- the tape he or his staff would be viewing would have been created by his employee.

Also interesting is that the Boston paper was fed specific quotes so the exact wording could be controlled. Bellicheat did not give an interview to discuss the matter.

Yes.

 

[Road Warriors]

"In my entire coaching career, I've never seen another team's practice film prior to playing that team," he said.

Anyone else find the above language used by Bellicheat curious.

Of course he's never seen film produced by another team- the tape he or his staff would be viewing would have been created by his employee.

Also interesting is that the Boston paper was fed specific quotes so the exact wording could be controlled. Bellicheat did not give an interview to discuss the matter.

Yes.

But in the same article, he is quoted saying

I've never been on a staff that has filmed a walkthrough.

Not much wordsmithing in that statement. Next non-issue?

 

[Jercules]

Bill Walsh would script the first 15 plays or so from scrimmage in 49ers games in the 80's, then all headsets would mysteriously malfunction in Candlestick for a brief period. The Giants, under Parcells, would open the doors of the Meadowlands to create harsh wind conditions just prior to an opposing teams' FG try. Receivers practice pushoffs, punters practice dives, and yes.... Bill Belichick, among other things I'm sure, had assistants use videocameras to tape an opposing coach's defensive signals when the rulebook allows for no more than a pen and paper (or a videocamera in the stands, which nowadays ought to be just as good).

It's all gamesmanship, it's been going on forever, it'll go on forever long after the Pats glory days are over (and coming off their most dominating season to date, I wouldn't bet on it).

This righteous indignation some of you people are spewing is just ridiculous. Pats fans are supposed to not cheer for the Patriots because the head coach lacks social skills? Because he's willing to cut a few corners to win, something all successful coachs do? David Letterman gets caught for speeding all the time, some of you must be DISGUSTED that ANYONE could watch the Late Show and enjoy it!

Calling NE "cheaters" for a minor rule violation is nonsense.... now that "great" Steelers dynasty of the 70's, when every last guy and their mother was on steriods, that's a true fraud.

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Quote from Class Dismissed:

Translation

Walsh has a tape, we didn't authorize it, in fact it's because of that kind of crap that we let him go.

We know Nothingk, NOTHINGK!



Quote from the article:

Belichick felt the Patriots' actions were in compliance with NFL rules, saying, "My interpretation was that you can't utilize anything to assist you during that game. What our camera guys do is clearly not allowed to be used during the game and has never been used during that game that it was shot."

So what other rules that seem pretty clear to everyone else are open to interpretation by Bill Belichick as to whether he follows them or not? Is he going to utter the famous words 'depends on what your meaning of the word is 'is? So with all we know about this guy; cheating, homewrecker, pressuring players to play with concussions, being a poor sportsman, etc...I ask you Patriot fans when is enough enough? When are you gonna stand up and demand some class from your coach?

Patriot fans, please don't use ANYTHING Bill Belichick says as a personal floatation device while avoiding the Patriots sinking ship of a Legacy. He was told by Kraft to speak with the media and given a script to follow OR else. The ONLY reason BB is out there speaking is damage control and to condemn any recording if evidence is produced.

You do realize in ten to 20 years no one will care or remember the spygate controversy..they'll just remember Brady, BB, 4 or 5 superbowls in 10 years and the 18-1 season.People forget the scandals, etc and just remember the good stuff

Same is true of Dallas Cowboys(drugs/crime/etc) and the 70s Steelers--steroid junkies

I just love your argument that people will forget the scandals. In proof thereof you cite scandals you readily remember.

 

[Routilla]

Bill Walsh would script the first 15 plays or so from scrimmage in 49ers games in the 80's, then all headsets would mysteriously malfunction in Candlestick for a brief period. The Giants, under Parcells, would open the doors of the Meadowlands to create harsh wind conditions just prior to an opposing teams' FG try. Receivers practice pushoffs, punters practice dives, and yes.... Bill Belichick, among other things I'm sure, had assistants use videocameras to tape an opposing coach's defensive signals when the rulebook allows for no more than a pen and paper (or a videocamera in the stands, which nowadays ought to be just as good).It's all gamesmanship, it's been going on forever, it'll go on forever long after the Pats glory days are over (and coming off their most dominating season to date, I wouldn't bet on it). This righteous indignation some of you people are spewing is just ridiculous. Pats fans are supposed to not cheer for the Patriots because the head coach lacks social skills? Because he's willing to cut a few corners to win, something all successful coachs do? David Letterman gets caught for speeding all the time, some of you must be DISGUSTED that ANYONE could watch the Late Show and enjoy it! Calling NE "cheaters" for a minor rule violation is nonsense.... now that "great" Steelers dynasty of the 70's, when every last guy and their mother was on steriods, that's a true fraud.

 

[bryan215]

Quote from Class Dismissed:

Translation

Walsh has a tape, we didn't authorize it, in fact it's because of that kind of crap that we let him go.

We know Nothingk, NOTHINGK!

:X

Quote from the article:

Belichick felt the Patriots' actions were in compliance with NFL rules, saying, "My interpretation was that you can't utilize anything to assist you during that game. What our camera guys do is clearly not allowed to be used during the game and has never been used during that game that it was shot."

So what other rules that seem pretty clear to everyone else are open to interpretation by Bill Belichick as to whether he follows them or not? Is he going to utter the famous words 'depends on what your meaning of the word is 'is? So with all we know about this guy; cheating, homewrecker, pressuring players to play with concussions, being a poor sportsman, etc...I ask you Patriot fans when is enough enough? When are you gonna stand up and demand some class from your coach?

Patriot fans, please don't use ANYTHING Bill Belichick says as a personal floatation device while avoiding the Patriots sinking ship of a Legacy. He was told by Kraft to speak with the media and given a script to follow OR else. The ONLY reason BB is out there speaking is damage control and to condemn any recording if evidence is produced.

You do realize in ten to 20 years no one will care or remember the spygate controversy..they'll just remember Brady, BB, 4 or 5 superbowls in 10 years and the 18-1 season.People forget the scandals, etc and just remember the good stuff

Same is true of Dallas Cowboys(drugs/crime/etc) and the 70s Steelers--steroid junkies

I just love your argument that people will forget the scandals. In proof thereof you cite scandals you readily remember.

I remember that..but the public doesn't they may recall it but they simply don't give a ####. football is a game played by thugs and brutes. People don't care if they die at 55, if they use steroids, if they cut corners, if they get arrested 24/7. They jsut want them to go out there and smash each other to pieces.People remember the good stuf..and forget the minor stuff.

Hence the 70s Steelers, 90s cowboys and eventually the 00 Patriots being remembered for being dominant dynasties

 

[bryan215]

A prediction: At some point in the future the main argument around here on this topic is going to have turned into, "If the Patriots knew that an employee secretly and illegally recorded another team's Super Bowl walk through, should they have informed the NFL of the matter?"

I wouldn't bet against that becoming the next in a long list of possible yet improbable excuses to come to out to explain away the cheating.

lol actually it will probably be ohhh god no...are they going to go ####### undefeated again

 

[sho nuff]

Denial about what, specifically? Like Obama, you appear to be long on theme and short on content.

Denial that your team cheated.Denial that your team did benefit from such tactics.Denial that it was more than just the one tape from earlier this year.Denial that BB could do anything wrong.Obama? What the hell does my post have to do with him?

Has not been denied by anyone for a very long time.The NFL Commissioner, and Steelers Owner Dan Rooney, among many others who happen to actually be affiliated with the NFL as opposed to arbitrary forum posters, disagree with you.Prior taping has been openly acknowledged by BB and the Commissioner, and was done openly by the Patriots and other teams around the league. Where is the denial?Now you're just coming with empty rhetoric.Apparently, his campaign is being criticized for being long on theme and short on content. I found your posts to be similar in that regard

Thank you for proving my point.Yes...it has been denied by plenty...and now you are in denial about your denial. Even better.So...the genius coach in the NFL in BB...did something that was going to provide absolutely no benefit to his team...and risk punishment. So, the NFL took away a 1st round draft pick and fined the owner and coach substantial amounts for something that gave the team absolutely no benefit? Hah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes, you are proving you are in denial with that.Really...by other teams? Prior taping such as this that was not legal? Yup...all the other teams got caught and punished right? Yawn...now you are not only in denial, you are just plain lying.Nothing empty about this rhetoric...your reply is proving my point about how blind some homers can be.You find the posts similar because you are a completely biased and blind homer for the Pats. Its painfully obvious to pretty much everyone else.

 

[sho nuff]

Quote from Class Dismissed:

Translation

Walsh has a tape, we didn't authorize it, in fact it's because of that kind of crap that we let him go.

We know Nothingk, NOTHINGK!



Quote from the article:

Belichick felt the Patriots' actions were in compliance with NFL rules, saying, "My interpretation was that you can't utilize anything to assist you during that game. What our camera guys do is clearly not allowed to be used during the game and has never been used during that game that it was shot."

So what other rules that seem pretty clear to everyone else are open to interpretation by Bill Belichick as to whether he follows them or not? Is he going to utter the famous words 'depends on what your meaning of the word is 'is? So with all we know about this guy; cheating, homewrecker, pressuring players to play with concussions, being a poor sportsman, etc...I ask you Patriot fans when is enough enough? When are you gonna stand up and demand some class from your coach?

Patriot fans, please don't use ANYTHING Bill Belichick says as a personal floatation device while avoiding the Patriots sinking ship of a Legacy. He was told by Kraft to speak with the media and given a script to follow OR else. The ONLY reason BB is out there speaking is damage control and to condemn any recording if evidence is produced.

You do realize in ten to 20 years no one will care or remember the spygate controversy..they'll just remember Brady, BB, 4 or 5 superbowls in 10 years and the 18-1 season.People forget the scandals, etc and just remember the good stuff

Same is true of Dallas Cowboys(drugs/crime/etc) and the 70s Steelers--steroid junkies

Really? People don't still do jokes about the Cowboys doing drugs (hint...they do).People don't say much about the Steroids because it was, in fact, a wide spread problem throughout the league and not just the steelers.

People don't remember Pete Rose and his scandal in baseball? The Black Sox?

Yes...people will remember that they were 18-1...and remember that it was the year they were busted cheating. And right now...there are not 4 or 5 Super Bowls....way to get ahead of yourself.

 

[Filthy]

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff.

Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

at a Patriot fan judging fans earning the priveledge to talk smack. For most NFL fans, Until people in hell start asking for parkas, your team (under the guidance of BB) hasn't earned the right to talk smack. 2000-Present day = * Era for the Patriots (coincides with employment of BB)

 

[twitch]

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff.

Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

at a Patriot fan judging fans earning the priveledge to talk smack. For most NFL fans, Until people in hell start asking for parkas, your team (under the guidance of BB) hasn't earned the right to talk smack. 2000-Present day = * Era for the Patriots (coincides with employment of BB)

Is that same, tired old asterisk and LOL remark about all you still have left in the arsenal? Let me give you one of these and how about one of these for a persistent effort. Keep that parka handy though.

 

[sho nuff]

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Nope...my team has a long and storied history and did not play the Pats this year.The last time they played in a Super Bowl...my team was left holding the Lombardi.Nice try though.Face it...the hater talk is ridiculous. People have these feelings towards the Pats because they cheated the game. Not for other reasons. Get over it. The legacy has been tarnished. No amount of homer spin will change that.

 

[Filthy]

Is that same, tired old asterisk and LOL remark about all you still have left in the arsenal? Let me give you one of these and how about one of these for a persistent effort. Keep that parka handy though.

Better get used to that *; it will haunt your team for life. Got to hand it to the Pat fans though; you guys still haven't run out of excuses.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Belichick = Colonel Nathan R Jessup

It is pretty similar

 

[twitch]

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff.

Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Nope...my team has a long and storied history and did not play the Pats this year.The last time they played in a Super Bowl...my team was left holding the Lombardi.

Nice try though.

Face it...the hater talk is ridiculous. People have these feelings towards the Pats because they cheated the game. Not for other reasons. Get over it. The legacy has been tarnished. No amount of homer spin will change that.

Oh, give it a rest. The melodrama is just sour. SB ratings this year were the highest theyve ever been. Ratings overall, atleast for NE's games were consistently the highest theyve ever been. The game belongs to the people. The people find the game more watchable now than ever before, specifically Patriots games. The game has never been more popular. No spin is needed to make that simple point. But you keep on doing your thing and pulling for whoever that Lombardi hoisting championship team of yours is.

 

[Liquid Tension]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

We don't need to talk smack...true Giant fans are too busy enjoying what was one of the most exciting, thrilling and joyous sports watching runs you could have.NE was a great team last year and the Giants needed to bring their A game to barely beat the Pats.As for all the spygate, I think it is blown out of proportion a little and NE was penalized for it. The two things I don't understand are the destroying of the evidence after the first punishment and the fact the league won't give into indemnification demands now? The league APPEARS to be trying to hide something.

 

[Filthy]

Oh, give it a rest. The melodrama is just sour. SB ratings this year were the highest theyve ever been. Ratings overall, atleast for NE's games were consistently the highest theyve ever been. The game belongs to the people. The people find the game more watchable now than ever before, specifically Patriots games. The game has never been more popular. No spin is needed to make that simple point. But you keep on doing your thing and pulling for whoever that Lombardi hoisting championship team of yours is.

Because 31 other team's fans were tuning in each week to see the cheaters lose. HTH

 

[sho nuff]

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff.

Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Nope...my team has a long and storied history and did not play the Pats this year.The last time they played in a Super Bowl...my team was left holding the Lombardi.

Nice try though.

Face it...the hater talk is ridiculous. People have these feelings towards the Pats because they cheated the game. Not for other reasons. Get over it. The legacy has been tarnished. No amount of homer spin will change that.

Oh, give it a rest. The melodrama is just sour. SB ratings this year were the highest theyve ever been. Ratings overall, atleast for NE's games were consistently the highest theyve ever been. The game belongs to the people. The people find the game more watchable now than ever before, specifically Patriots games. The game has never been more popular. No spin is needed to make that simple point. But you keep on doing your thing and pulling for whoever that Lombardi hoisting championship team of yours is.

Its not melodrama...its the freakin truth. Pats homers just cannot get past them that the "hate" is because of the cheating...well, and because of the attitudes of the chowds on message boards such as these.Yes, the game is watchable...people tuned in to see if they would win...but most were hoping, because of the cheating and ridiculous attitudes of homers like you and others have shown. What do ratings have to do with the discussion?

 

[pizzatyme]

A trainwreck will draw a larger crowd than a guy parking his car.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

A trainwreck will draw a larger crowd than a guy parking his car.

Yes, and snake oil salesmen will book more sales than ancient healers.

 

[Dman30]

It's the same two or three Patriots apologists that keep these threads going from a Patriots fan perspective. Must blow to watch your team lose the SuperBowl and then get blown to pieces in the media due to their cheating that they feel compelled to come onto a messageboard full of anonymous users to somehow convince us the Patriots didn't cheat or derive benefit from their shady tactics. The Patriots are a complete joke.

 

[Jercules]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

 

[Class Dismissed]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

 

[Jercules]

It's the same two or three Patriots apologists that keep these threads going from a Patriots fan perspective. Must blow to watch your team lose the SuperBowl and then get blown to pieces in the media due to their cheating that they feel compelled to come onto a messageboard full of anonymous users to somehow convince us the Patriots didn't cheat or derive benefit from their shady tactics. The Patriots are a complete joke.

The King stumbled and fell, enjoy it. Belichick coached a bad game, Brady got manhandled, and they lost a big game. I'm sure some of you just had an orgasm reading that last statement, and that's fine. The King is still the King though, and your pathetic attempts to exaggerate some small transgressions aren't going to change the fact the Pats will be back, next year, sniffing at another SB in an era where teams aren't supposed to succeed for more than a season or two. The joke is, Pats haters are arguing public opinion is against them. Public opinion is ALL ABOUT them, much like the Shark Pool. Whether you like them or hate them, they matter more than any other team, and that in and of itself is a testament to their greatness. You ought to pace yourselves better with these ######ed admonishments of BB & Co., because you'll be making the same tired arguments 10 months from now when spygate isn't even a memory anymore, and the Pats are still raping your favorite team.

 

[Jercules]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

After defeating the Patriots 21-0 and sacking Tom Brady four times, Miami linebacker Zach Thomas revealed that the Dolphins had used audio tapes of Brady to figure out his checks and protection calls..

When you win, you get placed under a very big microscope.

Do you think the Broncos were the only team that circumvented the salary cap in the late 1990s? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won two Super Bowls.

Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers were the only team in the 1970s that held illegal practices with shoulder pads in the off-season? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won four Super Bowls.

Belichick knew that Mangini was aware of the taping tactics. Mangini took advantage of those same tactics from 2000 to 2005. He didn't quit in protest and he didn't self-report the actions to the commissioner's office.

link: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/sep/16/p...y-of-arrogance/

.................

You can yell "cheater cheater cheater" like a chicken without a head, just don't call yourself a real football fan. A real football fan wouldn't be that ignorant about the sport.

 

[Pat Patriot]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

After defeating the Patriots 21-0 and sacking Tom Brady four times, Miami linebacker Zach Thomas revealed that the Dolphins had used audio tapes of Brady to figure out his checks and protection calls..

When you win, you get placed under a very big microscope.

Do you think the Broncos were the only team that circumvented the salary cap in the late 1990s? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won two Super Bowls.

Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers were the only team in the 1970s that held illegal practices with shoulder pads in the off-season? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won four Super Bowls.

Belichick knew that Mangini was aware of the taping tactics. Mangini took advantage of those same tactics from 2000 to 2005. He didn't quit in protest and he didn't self-report the actions to the commissioner's office.

link: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/sep/16/p...y-of-arrogance/

.................

You can point out the first part of the 1st Bill Cowher quote, and I'll point out the second part, and we'll call it a draw. The 2nd quote makes my point even clearer; except for Jim Mora apparently, no one in the know thinks this was a big deal. So why are so many so gung-ho about discrediting the Patriots and their accomplishments?

I love these guys who expect Brady to decipher the Defensive Signals in the huddle and then determine the best play to run against that defense. All in the 15-20 seconds that he has to call the play. Keep in mind that communication to the QB stops with 15 seconds left in the play clock. Mora is an IDIOT.

If a team had any incling that a team KNOWS their signals, they could wait until the offense breaks the huddle to call their defense. Not that hard.

Have any of you ever played on a team. I have been on football teams where we thought the offense figured out our blitz calls halfway through a game. Guess what, we changed them. I have been on a team where we thought the defense figured out our line calls (Baker, Charlie, DDay), we changed them. I have been on a baseball team where we thought the other team had our signs. We changed the indicator in the 4th inning.

As Goodell said in his address at the Super Bowl, the tapes the Patriots turned over showed a defensive coach waiving at the camera. They knew it was happening. Mangini certainly knew it was happening. If you know it is happening and you dont talk precautions to change your signals intra-game or the next time you play them then as Goodell says, YOU ARE STUPID.

 

[fatness]

It's the same two or three Patriots apologists that keep these threads going from a Patriots fan perspective.

It's almost like they know what posts the rest of us are going to make.

 

[GregR_2]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

... (snip)

 

[sho nuff]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Do you think any coach or GM or scout would come out and just call them cheaters? Really?Are you that naive?Why were the tapes destroyed?Why the big fines?Why the loss of draft picks?Why all of those things if there was no advantage? Why would a "genius" like BB tape those things and risk what he did if it gave him no advantage? Coaches like that don't do something and take the time to do that and review things like that if it gave them no advantage. The NFL stated it did not help them in that one Jets game. Have a quote for where they said the tapes never gave them an advantage?

 

[sho nuff]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

After defeating the Patriots 21-0 and sacking Tom Brady four times, Miami linebacker Zach Thomas revealed that the Dolphins had used audio tapes of Brady to figure out his checks and protection calls..

When you win, you get placed under a very big microscope.

Do you think the Broncos were the only team that circumvented the salary cap in the late 1990s? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won two Super Bowls.

Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers were the only team in the 1970s that held illegal practices with shoulder pads in the off-season? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won four Super Bowls.

Belichick knew that Mangini was aware of the taping tactics. Mangini took advantage of those same tactics from 2000 to 2005. He didn't quit in protest and he didn't self-report the actions to the commissioner's office.

link: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/sep/16/p...y-of-arrogance/

.................

You can yell "cheater cheater cheater" like a chicken without a head, just don't call yourself a real football fan. A real football fan wouldn't be that ignorant about the sport.

Those bold statements contradict each other. HTH

 

[sho nuff]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

After defeating the Patriots 21-0 and sacking Tom Brady four times, Miami linebacker Zach Thomas revealed that the Dolphins had used audio tapes of Brady to figure out his checks and protection calls..

When you win, you get placed under a very big microscope.

Do you think the Broncos were the only team that circumvented the salary cap in the late 1990s? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won two Super Bowls.

Do you think the Pittsburgh Steelers were the only team in the 1970s that held illegal practices with shoulder pads in the off-season? Of course they weren't. But they were the ones who lost a draft pick for it. Because they were the ones who had won four Super Bowls.

Belichick knew that Mangini was aware of the taping tactics. Mangini took advantage of those same tactics from 2000 to 2005. He didn't quit in protest and he didn't self-report the actions to the commissioner's office.

link: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2007/sep/16/p...y-of-arrogance/

.................

You can point out the first part of the 1st Bill Cowher quote, and I'll point out the second part, and we'll call it a draw. The 2nd quote makes my point even clearer; except for Jim Mora apparently, no one in the know thinks this was a big deal. So why are so many so gung-ho about discrediting the Patriots and their accomplishments?

I love these guys who expect Brady to decipher the Defensive Signals in the huddle and then determine the best play to run against that defense. All in the 15-20 seconds that he has to call the play. Keep in mind that communication to the QB stops with 15 seconds left in the play clock. Mora is an IDIOT.

If a team had any incling that a team KNOWS their signals, they could wait until the offense breaks the huddle to call their defense. Not that hard.

Have any of you ever played on a team. I have been on football teams where we thought the offense figured out our blitz calls halfway through a game. Guess what, we changed them. I have been on a team where we thought the defense figured out our line calls (Baker, Charlie, DDay), we changed them. I have been on a baseball team where we thought the other team had our signs. We changed the indicator in the 4th inning.

As Goodell said in his address at the Super Bowl, the tapes the Patriots turned over showed a defensive coach waiving at the camera. They knew it was happening. Mangini certainly knew it was happening. If you know it is happening and you dont talk precautions to change your signals intra-game or the next time you play them then as Goodell says, YOU ARE STUPID.

The problem is...its not about changing signals...its about analyzing those signals and what happened on the field at that time...and using that to scheme and decifer the defensive schemes quicker the next time. That is why teams were not allowed to tape on the sidelines like that. Thats why its not a big deal that they had people with binoculars or others watching the coaches...because you cannot sit down and later analyze that information.That any Pats fan still tries to defense these actions is ridiculous.

 

[AB in DC]

Those bold statements contradict each other. HTH

No, they don't.

 

[BusMan]

OK, Pats fans, lets make this really simple: why did he tape opposing team's defensive signals if they didn't benefit him in any way? Was he just getting some of his buddies on the payroll? Really, explain it to me. Why would he do it if he got nothing out of it? Why?

 

[parrot]

OK, Pats fans, lets make this really simple: why did he tape opposing team's defensive signals if they didn't benefit him in any way? Was he just getting some of his buddies on the payroll? Really, explain it to me. Why would he do it if he got nothing out of it? Why?

My guess is he got benefit from it by analyzing it for future reference. Contrary to popular belief there is no rule against taping the opposing coaches, or analyzing that information for future reference. The Patriots got in trouble for where they did there taping from because it was readily accessible to possibly be used for benefit in the current game, which is the scenario the league's rules are intended to prevent. According to Goodell there was no indication that the Patriots made use of the tapes in that way.

 

[AB in DC]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never said that videotaping signals didn't help BB.

Not to rehash old arguments, but I think the Boston Globe article explained it best:

He described the impact of the tapes as "minimal" to the Patriots' preparations, rating it a "one" on a scale of 1 to 100.

"On the tape of the signaling that we talk about, that film usually wasn't even completed until Thursday or Friday of the following week. It was that low of a priority," he said. "In other words, the video guys had so much other stuff to do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday getting ready for the other game, that a lot of times that film wasn't even processed until later in the week."

Asked, then, why the Patriots conducted the taping, he responded by saying: "Why do anything?

The big issue that people seem to miss is that the Pats could do the exact same thing with a pair of binoculars and a pad of paper as they could with the videotape. It's just a lot easier with the videotape -- a shortcut, so to speak. I believe Goodell said at one point that there was no way to tell whether the team's notes were obtained within the rules (binoculars and paper) or against the rules (the videotape).And if your next question is going to be "Then why the big penalty", it's the same reason why PacMan Jones was suspended for a year and why that coach in Dallas was suspended for five games. Goodell wants everyone to know that there's a new sheriff in town, and that he's going to come down hard on any infraction. In this case he sent a memo apparently clarifying the league's policy, and BB ignored it completely. So Goodell felt he had to send a signal that this would not be tolerated. In other words, the big penalty was for defying the Commissioner, not for "cheating" -- a word that never appeared in the Goodell's statements on the matter.

 

[Road Warriors]

OK, Pats fans, lets make this really simple: why did he tape opposing team's defensive signals if they didn't benefit him in any way? Was he just getting some of his buddies on the payroll? Really, explain it to me. Why would he do it if he got nothing out of it? Why?

My guess is he got benefit from it by analyzing it for future reference. Contrary to popular belief there is no rule against taping the opposing coaches, or analyzing that information for future reference. The Patriots got in trouble for where they did there taping from because it was readily accessible to possibly be used for benefit in the current game, which is the scenario the league's rules are intended to prevent. According to Goodell there was no indication that the Patriots made use of the tapes in that way.

Possibly the most clear, consise explanation of the nature of the violation I've seen, to date.

 

[BusMan]

OK, Pats fans, lets make this really simple: why did he tape opposing team's defensive signals if they didn't benefit him in any way? Was he just getting some of his buddies on the payroll? Really, explain it to me. Why would he do it if he got nothing out of it? Why?

My guess is he got benefit from it by analyzing it for future reference. Contrary to popular belief there is no rule against taping the opposing coaches, or analyzing that information for future reference. The Patriots got in trouble for where they did there taping from because it was readily accessible to possibly be used for benefit in the current game, which is the scenario the league's rules are intended to prevent. According to Goodell there was no indication that the Patriots made use of the tapes in that way.

Possibly the most clear, consise explanation of the nature of the violation I've seen, to date.

Thanks, and I agree, this is a strong explanation.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

No need to convince anyone of anything. Every last NFL personnel man, scout, coach, and executive they've interviewed is convinced they DIDN'T "derive benefit from their shady tactics." There's not a single Pat Hater argument out there that changes this (although my favourite is the thing about "everybody wants to protect the NFL, blah blah blah." You're gonna propose a conspiracy theory like that, and then call pro-Pats arguments outlandish? Pointing out how minor a transgression the videotaping really was, that's just desperate and pathetic, but suggesting every last NFL non-player is out to convince us this doesn't matter.... not just decline commenting, but actually laughing and saying it's meaningless..... Jimmy Johnson, Bill Cowher, Rooney, Roger Goodell..... all of them, LYING!!! Makes perfect sense!)

Cowher said it was a huge advantage, as did Jim Mora who went as far to speculate that Brady could have looked at the DC and figured it out the play in the huddle with prior knowledge of the signals.

"Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, reached at his home in North Carolina yesterday, said:"Is it an advantage to steal signals? Yes. Did it determine the outcome of the game? No.''

About spygate:

"Former Steelers Coach Bill Cowher even hinted that this has been a league-wide issue that most, if not all teams, participate in some fashion."

"It's not something that hasn't happened before,"said Atlanta Falcons coach Bobby Petrino.

"You're always trying to get the other team's signals," said Seattle Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren.

"I know we're all trying to get signals, we're all looking for an edge," said Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach Jon Gruden..

Denver Broncos coach Mike Shanahan said in a 2002 Sports Illustrated article: "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game. With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes by the end of the first quarter.".

Marty Schottenheimer was well known for sending spies to his opponents' practices. Herm Edwards copped to picking up signals in the film room using the pressbox and end zone tapes provided by the league..

Al Davis used to bug his opponents' locker rooms .

... (snip)

So Cowher points out an advantage, and other coaches allude to the widespread nature of attempts to steal signals. In that environment, when attempts to steal signals was / is common, the question you're left with is "how much of an advantage"? I think the argument of "Patriots apologists" is that the commonality AND out in the open nature of videotaping on the opponents sidelines (to the point where defensive signal callers actually wave at the cameras) make the potential for meaningful advantage de minimus. It's gamesmanship.

 

[parrot]

OK, Pats fans, lets make this really simple: why did he tape opposing team's defensive signals if they didn't benefit him in any way? Was he just getting some of his buddies on the payroll? Really, explain it to me. Why would he do it if he got nothing out of it? Why?

My guess is he got benefit from it by analyzing it for future reference. Contrary to popular belief there is no rule against taping the opposing coaches, or analyzing that information for future reference. The Patriots got in trouble for where they did there taping from because it was readily accessible to possibly be used for benefit in the current game, which is the scenario the league's rules are intended to prevent. According to Goodell there was no indication that the Patriots made use of the tapes in that way.

Possibly the most clear, consise explanation of the nature of the violation I've seen, to date.

Thanks, and I agree, this is a strong explanation.

Thanks. Glad I could help.

 

[prelate]

Belichick, himself said it was an advantage, albeit a small one. Not sure why everyone wants to drag in Cowher, JJ, etc.

"He described the impact of the tapes as "minimal" to the Patriots' preparations, rating it a "one" on a scale of 1 to 100."

What's "minimal"? 1 point?,2? 3? As in the final scores of all 3 superbowl victories?

 

[sho nuff]

Those bold statements contradict each other. HTH

No, they don't.

So...they all say that they did not benefit....but a quote by Cowher saying they gained an advantage?

 

[sho nuff]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never said that videotaping signals didn't help BB.

Not to rehash old arguments, but I think the Boston Globe article explained it best:

He described the impact of the tapes as "minimal" to the Patriots' preparations, rating it a "one" on a scale of 1 to 100.

"On the tape of the signaling that we talk about, that film usually wasn't even completed until Thursday or Friday of the following week. It was that low of a priority," he said. "In other words, the video guys had so much other stuff to do on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday getting ready for the other game, that a lot of times that film wasn't even processed until later in the week."

Asked, then, why the Patriots conducted the taping, he responded by saying: "Why do anything?

The big issue that people seem to miss is that the Pats could do the exact same thing with a pair of binoculars and a pad of paper as they could with the videotape. It's just a lot easier with the videotape -- a shortcut, so to speak. I believe Goodell said at one point that there was no way to tell whether the team's notes were obtained within the rules (binoculars and paper) or against the rules (the videotape).And if your next question is going to be "Then why the big penalty", it's the same reason why PacMan Jones was suspended for a year and why that coach in Dallas was suspended for five games. Goodell wants everyone to know that there's a new sheriff in town, and that he's going to come down hard on any infraction. In this case he sent a memo apparently clarifying the league's policy, and BB ignored it completely. So Goodell felt he had to send a signal that this would not be tolerated. In other words, the big penalty was for defying the Commissioner, not for "cheating" -- a word that never appeared in the Goodell's statements on the matter.

And again...BB's saying this is worth what? do you think he would admit and own up to what benefit it gave him? Not quite a credible source for this.

 

[sho nuff]

It's gamesmanship.

Obviously Goodell and the NFL disagreed.

 

[fatness]

In other words, the big penalty was for defying the Commissioner, not for "cheating" -- a word that never appeared in the Goodell's statements on the matter.

"This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid long-standing rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field,"

ESPN

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

It's gamesmanship.

Obviously Goodell and the NFL disagreed.

To the extent that the entirety of Patriots videotape-related transgressions made them subject to the fines and penalties levied after Week 1 of the 2007 season, you are completely correct.To the extent that attempting to malign BB or the accomplishments of the Patriots through the course of this decade over and above being the target of said adminstrative action by the league is to create a tempest in a teapot.

That's all I'm saying.