Belichick, Pioli Speak out on Spygate, Walsh (1 Viewer)

[sho nuff]

My biggest problem with the course of "Spygate" has been that people continue to invent new things and extrapolate new accusations based on 0 evidence.People do realize that what the Patriots were "caught" doing and punished for was taping defensive signals from an illegal location in violation of NFL rules. THAT IS IT. Stealing offensive calls is very different but is used as evidence of further Patriot wrongdoing. The Dolphins openly bragged about stealing all of the Patriots line calls by purchasing a Video and using the audio. Yet people want to use this to further discredit the Patriots.When was the Super Bowl? Over three weeks ago when the story about the Rams walkthrough broke. That is 3 weeks of digging and there is not a single shred of evidence that the Patriots taped a walkthrough. Yet people still talk about it as if it has already been proven.

Umm...I think it goes without saying that people are discussing this with the "if this is true" attitude (and have said as much several times when discussing it).

 

[fatness]

My biggest problem with the course of "Spygate" has been that people continue to invent new things and extrapolate new accusations based on 0 evidence.

Roger Goodell and Arlen Specter think there's a decent chance that there's evidence of some sort which may indicate other cheeating by the Patriots. That is why they both want to talk to Walsh, and want (perhaps for different reasons) Walsh to tell them what he knows.The flip side of what bothers you is what bothers others: people trying to diminish what Walsh might have to say in advance; people who want the NFL to see the "evidence" and keep it from the public; people who claim without knowledge that Walsh has nothing.Nobody knows what Walsh has or knows. We'd all be better off if we knew. Until then it's speculation on both sides. And we may never know, if an indemnity agreement isn't reached. That would not be a satisfactory conclusion.

 

[Workhorse]

My biggest problem with the course of "Spygate" has been that people continue to invent new things and extrapolate new accusations based on 0 evidence.

Roger Goodell and Arlen Specter think there's a decent chance that there's evidence of some sort which may indicate other cheeating by the Patriots. That is why they both want to talk to Walsh, and want (perhaps for different reasons) Walsh to tell them what he knows.The flip side of what bothers you is what bothers others: people trying to diminish what Walsh might have to say in advance; people who want the NFL to see the "evidence" and keep it from the public; people who claim without knowledge that Walsh has nothing.Nobody knows what Walsh has or knows. We'd all be better off if we knew. Until then it's speculation on both sides. And we may never know, if an indemnity agreement isn't reached. That would not be a satisfactory conclusion.

Actually people with knowledge (several local and national beat writers, NFL and Patriots sources) have suggested that Walsh doesn't really have anything. Specter is pretty quiet lately and his office is now telling people that there won't be any kind of Senate hearing about this. Why do you think that is?

 

[Bossman]

Actually people with knowledge (several local and national beat writers, NFL and Patriots sources) have suggested that Walsh doesn't really have anything. Specter is pretty quiet lately and his office is now telling people that there won't be any kind of Senate hearing about this. Why do you think that is?

I've always wondered why, if such a tape existed, Walsh would have the tape in his posetion. If there was a tape, wouldn't he have given it to the Patriots to use? Did the Patriots feel the need to return it to Walsh after viewing it? Or did Walsh make a copy for his own library? It makes no sense to me.... and if there was a tape that was used by the Patriots, would Belichick be so adamant last week about denying ever seeing a "taped walkthrough"?Seems to me that if this tape were to appear now, Belichick would look guilty as he11 after those comments.

 

[sho nuff]

Actually people with knowledge (several local and national beat writers, NFL and Patriots sources) have suggested that Walsh doesn't really have anything. Specter is pretty quiet lately and his office is now telling people that there won't be any kind of Senate hearing about this. Why do you think that is?

I've always wondered why, if such a tape existed, Walsh would have the tape in his posetion. If there was a tape, wouldn't he have given it to the Patriots to use? Did the Patriots feel the need to return it to Walsh after viewing it? Or did Walsh make a copy for his own library? It makes no sense to me.... and if there was a tape that was used by the Patriots, would Belichick be so adamant last week about denying ever seeing a "taped walkthrough"?Seems to me that if this tape were to appear now, Belichick would look guilty as he11 after those comments.

Kind of like how Clemens claimed he was not at a party but now there are pictures popping up with him at said party?Yeah...cause people who are guilty of something always admit it.Im not saying there for sure is some tape...but dismissing it because of a denial by the possible guilty party is laughable.

 

[parrot]

My biggest problem with the course of "Spygate" has been that people continue to invent new things and extrapolate new accusations based on 0 evidence.

Roger Goodell and Arlen Specter think there's a decent chance that there's evidence of some sort which may indicate other cheeating by the Patriots. That is why they both want to talk to Walsh, and want (perhaps for different reasons) Walsh to tell them what he knows.

I think you're reading an awful lot into the fact that both would like to talk to him. Specter is a grandstanding politician interested in whatever continues to keep his name in print. Goodell is doing his due diligence as Commissioner. I don't know that either of these positions suggests much about what they think he might potentially have.

Nobody knows what Walsh has or knows. We'd all be better off if we knew. Until then it's speculation on both sides. And we may never know, if an indemnity agreement isn't reached. That would not be a satisfactory conclusion.

The Patriots have said there is no confidentiality pact with Walsh so there's no need for an indemnity agreement. He's free to pretty much talk about whatever he wants to talk about. But he's still continuing to hide behind a lawyer as though there are complex legal issues involved. If you read his statements he has talked in circles, one minute saying he would be happy to tell what he knows then the next saying he's worried he might lose his pension (he doesn't have a pension, he has a 401k) or his season tickets and wondering if it would be worth it. To me he just really comes off as a guy trying to weasel out of the position he has put himself in. I'm interested in hearing what he knows and seeing what he has, but the longer it takes to come out, and the more games he plays, the more inclined I am to believe it ain't much.

 

[Road Warriors]

Actually people with knowledge (several local and national beat writers, NFL and Patriots sources) have suggested that Walsh doesn't really have anything. Specter is pretty quiet lately and his office is now telling people that there won't be any kind of Senate hearing about this. Why do you think that is?

I've always wondered why, if such a tape existed, Walsh would have the tape in his posetion. If there was a tape, wouldn't he have given it to the Patriots to use? Did the Patriots feel the need to return it to Walsh after viewing it? Or did Walsh make a copy for his own library? It makes no sense to me.... and if there was a tape that was used by the Patriots, would Belichick be so adamant last week about denying ever seeing a "taped walkthrough"?Seems to me that if this tape were to appear now, Belichick would look guilty as he11 after those comments.

Kind of like how Clemens claimed he was not at a party but now there are pictures popping up with him at said party?Yeah...cause people who are guilty of something always admit it.Im not saying there for sure is some tape...but dismissing it because of a denial by the possible guilty party is laughable.

I question it mostly due to the rather odd manner in which the said holder of the tape has "addressed" it. The Patriots now state they do not have a confidentiality agreement with this guy. He is given top cover if he's telling the truth. If he truly has a tape, you'd think there'd be some agreement that could be reached for this to come forward. It hasn't.Its all speculative, but the actions of Walsh cast a HUGE shadow of doubt over this story. Even if you want to believe it.

 

[fatness]

A rather long Article in Pro Football Weekly

Does Goodell want to know what Walsh has on tape?

Sounding not at all like Franklin D. Roosevelt, they all say they have nothing to fear but fear itself. If that’s the case, then why is it so difficult to agree not to sue a former low-level employee of the Patriots in exchange for taking a peek at his video collection and possibly listening to his audio collection? Commissioner Roger Goodell kept saying for weeks that “no one wants to talk with Matt Walsh more than we do,” after which he sent a guy from NFL security — former FBI agent **** Farley — to investigate him at his former places of employment. Way to open a guy up to a chat.

The senator was told the commissioner knew Farley worked for him but claimed he didn’t know Farley was investigating anybody. That admission came after Goodell had insisted that destroying the evidence in Spygate I before he’d even seen it wasn’t all that unusual. He sounded like he could move right into management with the LAPD.

Goodell has unwisely treated this as the NFL treats most things — as a public-relations problem. He says he acted swiftly when the first charges were leveled at Bill Belichick for cheating, although we now have learned he acted so swiftly he fined Belichick four days before the Patriots produced the notes and tapes he sought. How do you punish someone before you know what he did?

Denials by Belichick and the Patriots mean very little, as do claims by Goodell about how badly the NFL wants to speak with Walsh, the former Patriots videographer who is now a golf pro in Hawaii. The fact is that if the Patriots have nothing more to hide — they already were caught red-handed running an illegal taping operation of opposing coaches flashing sideline signals despite having been specifically reminded by a league memo to all head coaches and general managers not to do it and then tried to weasel out of it by claiming a loophole in the rule that didn’t exist — all they had to do from the start is release Walsh from the unusual non-disclosure agreement they forced him to sign when they fired him.

The same is true for Goodell and the league. If they wanted to talk with Walsh as badly as they say, they could have given him blanket indemnity from any lawsuit filed by the Patriots and been done with it. They also could have picked up the phone and called anyone he once worked for and asked if he had worked there, if all they were doing was “confirming his employment,” as Goodell claimed. They didn’t have to send a former FBI agent to those employers in an effort to intimidate Walsh.

 

[twitch]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens. Well, Clemens has admitted to NO wrong doing. NE has. Their representatives, BB and Pioli, addressed the situation when the time was right. Considering they were coming off the Superbowl game, and a pretty "Giant" loss, pun absolutely intended, I would agree with them in taking their time in responding to the additional allegations. To do so immediately would have taken away from the game itself. And the team that actually won the game, the Giants. Clemens had no such reason to take such a long period of time in responding intitially, if in fact he had nothing to hide, other than to get his story straight with his team of lawyers. In this case, NE's situation is more closely comparable to the Pettite situation. They were both caught in the wrong, were penalized (only in the public eye, in Pettite's case). I dont even see a Clemens or McNamee parallel in this case. Clemens has thrown his wife, his mom, and his teammate under the bus to varying degrees. NE has done no such thing. And McNamee has actually shown a willingness to speak to people without any guarantees of indemnity, even though he's being sued by Clemens as we speak. Im sure he understands that as long as he's innocent, he has nothing really to be afraid of. Which is exactly how Walsh should feel.

 

[Ghost Rider]

I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens. Well, Clemens has admitted to NO wrong doing. NE has.

Actually, they really haven't. Belichick's "I misinterpreted the rules" lame-o explanation is his way of trying to make it look like he didn't think he was doing anything wrong, and that he was just not sure about a specific rule.

 

[JAA]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind.

why do you think he is asking for immunity? He may have even attempted to bribe BB or the Patriots, etc. We dont know his (true) story or much about him. He might be a complete ######## or ####### for all we know. THough, if he does have tapes, what does that have to do with the Patriots and BB cheating and subsequent coverup?

 

[AB in DC]

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

What "tactics" are these that have any relevance to sneaking into an opposing team's practice?It's like taking a guy who ran a red light and saying "Oh, he must have been drunk too, so why haven't they busted him for DUI??? It's a COVERUP!!!!!"

 

[sho nuff]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens. Well, Clemens has admitted to NO wrong doing. NE has. Their representatives, BB and Pioli, addressed the situation when the time was right. Considering they were coming off the Superbowl game, and a pretty "Giant" loss, pun absolutely intended, I would agree with them in taking their time in responding to the additional allegations. To do so immediately would have taken away from the game itself. And the team that actually won the game, the Giants. Clemens had no such reason to take such a long period of time in responding intitially, if in fact he had nothing to hide, other than to get his story straight with his team of lawyers. In this case, NE's situation is more closely comparable to the Pettite situation. They were both caught in the wrong, were penalized (only in the public eye, in Pettite's case). I dont even see a Clemens or McNamee parallel in this case. Clemens has thrown his wife, his mom, and his teammate under the bus to varying degrees. NE has done no such thing. And McNamee has actually shown a willingness to speak to people without any guarantees of indemnity, even though he's being sued by Clemens as we speak. Im sure he understands that as long as he's innocent, he has nothing really to be afraid of. Which is exactly how Walsh should feel.

Common sense? From you and seniorVBD? Unpossible. You two have been the most nonsensical posters in this thread.Yes...NE has admitted to wrongdoing...does that make BB's denial any more credible? Not really...at least not to people who are not completely biased.

I don't give a damn about who took how long to respond...never made it part of my argument.

The parallel exists between who is and is not credible. Right now...BB is not very credible just to ask if he did something...no more than Walsh is all that credible just with his word. Unless you expect BB to just come out and admit he told Walsh to do it before anything else come out.

 

[sho nuff]

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

What "tactics" are these that have any relevance to sneaking into an opposing team's practice?It's like taking a guy who ran a red light and saying "Oh, he must have been drunk too, so why haven't they busted him for DUI??? It's a COVERUP!!!!!"

Already being caught with illegal video taping? Yes...it would lead me to believe they would be capable of sneaking in and taping a practice.Your comparison is laughable.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Wake me up when Walsh actually comes forward from the phantom liability concerns he's hiding behind, and provides some corroboration of his slanderous comments against the organization that terminated him.

 

[sho nuff]

Wake me up when Walsh actually comes forward from the phantom liability concerns he's hiding behind, and provides some corroboration of his slanderous comments against the organization that terminated him.

As if it will make a difference to the blind homers like you and others. You will find some other way to defend the actions...bring up the everyone was doing it or "commonplace" argument.

 

[twitch]

Common sense? From you and seniorVBD? Unpossible. You two have been the most nonsensical posters in this thread.Yes...NE has admitted to wrongdoing...does that make BB's denial any more credible? Not really...at least not to people who are not completely biased.I don't give a damn about who took how long to respond...never made it part of my argument.The parallel exists between who is and is not credible. Right now...BB is not very credible just to ask if he did something...no more than Walsh is all that credible just with his word. Unless you expect BB to just come out and admit he told Walsh to do it before anything else come out.

Look, if you think reaching conclusions based on heresay, unnamed sources, assumptions, or creative imagination makes sense, then by all means have at it. I'll stay over here on my side of the fence. Obviously NE is my team of choice. So, I'll have a natural bias. But I dont care if this same crap was happening to Miami or Tennessee or Cleveland or any other team, if any of those teams were going thru the same sequence of crap events based on a bunch of nothing that NE now finds itself in, then I'd share the same opinion. I wouldnt be nearly as vocal about it because the fans of those teams would handle most of that work. But Id still manage to make the same sense of it. We'll just agree to disagree on our opinions here. The Clemens comments werent aimed at you, btw.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Wake me up when Walsh actually comes forward from the phantom liability concerns he's hiding behind, and provides some corroboration of his slanderous comments against the organization that terminated him.

As if it will make a difference to the blind homers like you and others. You will find some other way to defend the actions...bring up the everyone was doing it or "commonplace" argument.

Thanks for the kind words. Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The parallel exists between who is and is not credible.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens.

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.

Question of integrity. Check.

Unbelieveable excuses. Check.

Dispicable arrogance. Check.

Hiding behind lawyers. Check.

I think they compare pretty well, actually.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.Question of integrity. Check.Unbelieveable excuses. Check.Dispicable arrogance. Check.Hiding behind lawyers. Check.I think they compare pretty well, actually.

Roger is missing the "but everyone else did it" excuse - thus far.Which was an absolutely huge position for the Pats and their fans for a long while.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens.

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.

Question of integrity. Check.

Unbelieveable excuses. Check.

Dispicable arrogance. Check.

Hiding behind lawyers. Check.

I think they compare pretty well, actually.

Lets see....The accuser's story has been corroborated. NO Check.

The commissioner and the accused are on opposite sides in this thing. NO Check.

I don't have a problem with you questioning integrity or claiming arrogance, but the unbelievable excuses and hiding behind lawyers labels are better applied to Matt Walsh than Belichick and or Goodell.

 

[DropKick]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Well, I'm a man without a team (I could, but I choose not to and just enjoy Fantasy Football)... me thinks (at least here) its less about their teams getting beat by those cheating Pats but more having to listen to the likes of you guys (not so much you twitch) all year long... (where the heck is babynewyear?!?)

Great, a fantasy football band wagon jumper that doesn't even have a team to root for... Me thinks this guy know little to nothing...

 

[freelander]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans. And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Well, I'm a man without a team (I could, but I choose not to and just enjoy Fantasy Football)... me thinks (at least here) its less about their teams getting beat by those cheating Pats but more having to listen to the likes of you guys (not so much you twitch) all year long... (where the heck is babynewyear?!?)

Great, a fantasy football band wagon jumper that doesn't even have a team to root for... Me thinks this guy know little to nothing...

thanks for proving my point

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.

The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.

This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans.

And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Well, I'm a man without a team (I could, but I choose not to and just enjoy Fantasy Football)... me thinks (at least here) its less about their teams getting beat by those cheating Pats but more having to listen to the likes of you guys (not so much you twitch) all year long... (where the heck is babynewyear?!?)

Great, a fantasy football band wagon jumper that doesn't even have a team to root for... Me thinks this guy know little to nothing...

thanks for proving my point

The antagonism manifested here by Pats fans including babynewyear, myself, and others was created by posters exactly like you. Your posts during the September timeframe betray you attempts to come off as an unbiased poster. The fact that you're continuing your campaign at 6:01 am only further validate that.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens.

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.

Question of integrity. Check.

Unbelieveable excuses. Check.

Dispicable arrogance. Check.

Hiding behind lawyers. Check.

I think they compare pretty well, actually.

Lets see....The accuser's story has been corroborated. NO Check.

The commissioner and the accused are on opposite sides in this thing. NO Check.

I don't have a problem with you questioning integrity or claiming arrogance, but the unbelievable excuses and hiding behind lawyers labels are better applied to Matt Walsh than Belichick and or Goodell.

Right because destroying evidence isn't about hiding anything is it? He might not be hiding behind lawyers, but he's hiding something and you know it. Look, if it was Tagliabu who destroyed the tapes, I'd believe him. And I'd believe him because nothing ever happend on his watch. The guy was never in the news so for whatever reason I'd at least trust him. I'm starting to think Goodell is as pomous as Belichick is arrogant. Goodell's sanctimonious stance on what the pats did or didn't do is patently offensive to me. He knows what 7 solid years of cheating would do to his league and he's evidently prepared to go down with his ship. Great. Go ahead Rog. The problem here is that it's not just the pats and the pats fans who are suffering. I know as a whole, this particular group of NFL fans believes the world revolves around them. I get that. It's like welfare, the longer someone gives you something for nothing, the more you push back when you have to actually earn it for yourself. So yes, everybody loses here. There are a few teams without rings that are at least inwardly questioning the outcome of those superbowls. And can you blame them? I believe this runs deeper than the pats fans care to admit. If you think that the government's involvement in cleaning up American sports is a waste of time, that is your right - but it's a right you are abusing because you are flat-out wrong.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens.

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.

Question of integrity. Check.

Unbelieveable excuses. Check.

Dispicable arrogance. Check.

Hiding behind lawyers. Check.

I think they compare pretty well, actually.

Lets see....The accuser's story has been corroborated. NO Check.

The commissioner and the accused are on opposite sides in this thing. NO Check.

I don't have a problem with you questioning integrity or claiming arrogance, but the unbelievable excuses and hiding behind lawyers labels are better applied to Matt Walsh than Belichick and or Goodell.

Right because destroying evidence isn't about hiding anything is it? He might not be hiding behind lawyers, but he's hiding something and you know it. Look, if it was Tagliabu who destroyed the tapes, I'd believe him. And I'd believe him because nothing ever happend on his watch. The guy was never in the news so for whatever reason I'd at least trust him. I'm starting to think Goodell is as pomous as Belichick is arrogant. Goodell's sanctimonious stance on what the pats did or didn't do is patently offensive to me. He knows what 7 solid years of cheating would do to his league and he's evidently prepared to go down with his ship. Great. Go ahead Rog. The problem here is that it's not just the pats and the pats fans who are suffering. I know as a whole, this particular group of NFL fans believes the world revolves around them. I get that. It's like welfare, the longer someone gives you something for nothing, the more you push back when you have to actually earn it for yourself. So yes, everybody loses here. There are a few teams without rings that are at least inwardly questioning the outcome of those superbowls. And can you blame them? I believe this runs deeper than the pats fans care to admit. If you think that the government's involvement in cleaning up American sports is a waste of time, that is your right - but it's a right you are abusing because you are flat-out wrong.

Well gee how can I argue with that?

 

[sho nuff]

Common sense? From you and seniorVBD? Unpossible. You two have been the most nonsensical posters in this thread.Yes...NE has admitted to wrongdoing...does that make BB's denial any more credible? Not really...at least not to people who are not completely biased.I don't give a damn about who took how long to respond...never made it part of my argument.The parallel exists between who is and is not credible. Right now...BB is not very credible just to ask if he did something...no more than Walsh is all that credible just with his word. Unless you expect BB to just come out and admit he told Walsh to do it before anything else come out.

Look, if you think reaching conclusions based on heresay, unnamed sources, assumptions, or creative imagination makes sense, then by all means have at it. I'll stay over here on my side of the fence. Obviously NE is my team of choice. So, I'll have a natural bias. But I dont care if this same crap was happening to Miami or Tennessee or Cleveland or any other team, if any of those teams were going thru the same sequence of crap events based on a bunch of nothing that NE now finds itself in, then I'd share the same opinion. I wouldnt be nearly as vocal about it because the fans of those teams would handle most of that work. But Id still manage to make the same sense of it. We'll just agree to disagree on our opinions here. The Clemens comments werent aimed at you, btw.

Funny...I have reached conclusions only on the proven facts that the Pats have been busted and punished for their cheating ways. And that more allegations came forward...and have been going on the assumption of "if true" as have other people and it has been stated as such.Obviously, it is not a bunch of nothing as they have already been busted. That makes them a bit less credible when they start claiming that they are so innocent of the latest allegations.I brought up Clemens for the people that keep saying "why would BB deny it so strongly if he knows there is a tape...he knows that if the tape comes out, he is proven wrong". I responded that its the same as Clemens denying he was at a party...knowing that if any pictures come out, or other testimony...that he is screwed.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Spygate is not going away. Bill Belichick is not here, though that's not such big news; he didn't come a year ago. But on all sides, you feel the hum of Spygate, and rumors are everywhere. In general, this situation reminds me of a murder trial in a small town and a judge trying to seat a jury for it.

Getting a fair trial in this league right now is tough. You can't find 12 people in the league who don't have a strong opinion on this, and most of those opinions are very anti-Patriot. The consensus is there's too much smoke around the story for it to either be false or for it to go away. That's why it's so important for the league to get former New England video assistant Matt Walsh to talk as soon as possible, so this story, which has amazed top league officials with its legs, can be vetted for good, one way or the other.

Over the weekend, I spoke with former Rams coach Mike Martz about the allegation that the Patriots videotaped St. Louis' walk through practice the day before Super Bowl XXXVI. He says the Ram practice that day consisted of the offense running its red-zone plays at half speed. I hear that Martz and other Ram people are privately talking much tougher, and I think it's possible, if there is tape of the walk through, the Rams may press the league to have the outcome of the game overturned.

It's crucial for the Patriots -- and for Belichick's future as a head coach in the league -- that Walsh not have a tape of that practice. All we can do is speculate on that right now, but I, for one, believe that tape does not exist. I believe it's more likely Walsh has some tapes of the Patriots videotaping opposing signals. That's not going to get the Patriots, or Belichick, in more trouble. The Pats have already been sanctioned for that.

But if that's all Walsh has, I'll tell you who's in trouble -- the Boston Herald. I'd be surprised if New England owner Bob Kraft doesn't sue the pants off the paper, which reported the Patriots videotaped the Rams' walk through the day before Super Bowl XXXVI, for damaging his brand if the story is not true.

Peter King

I don't disagree with you, but my own opinion is that Walsh either taped the game without direction from NE or got his hands on a third party tape of the walkthrough. We've argued this point before, but I still say he needs corroboration in addition to possession of some tape absent chain of custody on either the tape itself or the instructions to engage in illicit videotaping. Think of it this way, if Goodell sees the tape and kicks BB out of the league, even though BB denies that he authorized it, wouldn't it be trivial for BB to win a lawsuit against the NFL?

With their other tactics in play...who in their right mind (other than biased Pats fans who are clearly not in their right mind) would believe he was just off acting on his own without direction from the team?

Just a reminder that if in fact Walsh actually has tapes, he's acquired them or possessed them by some 'illegal' means. They wouldnt be his property. The tapes in fact would belong to the New England Patriots or the NFL, again if they even do exist. You cant honestly think the team just told the guy, "Sure go ahead and keep whatever tapes you want. Copy whatever tapes you want". No. Not happening. With that in mind, the guy everyone is expecting to cast a shadow over others, has cast a shadow over himself with the mere existence of these tapes. Factoring this in doesnt require that one is or isnt a fan of any one particular team. It only requires that you use common sense. A guy in possession of stolen property, refusing to speak about it, and demanding limitless legal protection has very little clout to anyone in their right mind. I find it interesting how people compare this situation to the Clemens situation. So many are choosing to compare the Patriots to Clemens.

Let's see how they compare shall we?Superior to dominating on field performance. Check.

Question of integrity. Check.

Unbelieveable excuses. Check.

Dispicable arrogance. Check.

Hiding behind lawyers. Check.

I think they compare pretty well, actually.

Lets see....The accuser's story has been corroborated. NO Check.

The commissioner and the accused are on opposite sides in this thing. NO Check.

I don't have a problem with you questioning integrity or claiming arrogance, but the unbelievable excuses and hiding behind lawyers labels are better applied to Matt Walsh than Belichick and or Goodell.

Right because destroying evidence isn't about hiding anything is it? He might not be hiding behind lawyers, but he's hiding something and you know it. Look, if it was Tagliabu who destroyed the tapes, I'd believe him. And I'd believe him because nothing ever happend on his watch. The guy was never in the news so for whatever reason I'd at least trust him. I'm starting to think Goodell is as pomous as Belichick is arrogant. Goodell's sanctimonious stance on what the pats did or didn't do is patently offensive to me. He knows what 7 solid years of cheating would do to his league and he's evidently prepared to go down with his ship. Great. Go ahead Rog. The problem here is that it's not just the pats and the pats fans who are suffering. I know as a whole, this particular group of NFL fans believes the world revolves around them. I get that. It's like welfare, the longer someone gives you something for nothing, the more you push back when you have to actually earn it for yourself. So yes, everybody loses here. There are a few teams without rings that are at least inwardly questioning the outcome of those superbowls. And can you blame them? I believe this runs deeper than the pats fans care to admit. If you think that the government's involvement in cleaning up American sports is a waste of time, that is your right - but it's a right you are abusing because you are flat-out wrong.

Well gee how can I argue with that?

Hey Senior you seem like a rational dude so can I give you some friendly advice? If you just ignore these guys and don't acknowledge them, they'll go away. Not sure why you're constantly defending yourself unless you care what they think.

 

[twitch]

Right because destroying evidence isn't about hiding anything is it? He might not be hiding behind lawyers, but he's hiding something and you know it. Look, if it was Tagliabu who destroyed the tapes, I'd believe him. And I'd believe him because nothing ever happend on his watch. The guy was never in the news so for whatever reason I'd at least trust him. I'm starting to think Goodell is as pomous as Belichick is arrogant. Goodell's sanctimonious stance on what the pats did or didn't do is patently offensive to me. He knows what 7 solid years of cheating would do to his league and he's evidently prepared to go down with his ship. Great. Go ahead Rog. The problem here is that it's not just the pats and the pats fans who are suffering. I know as a whole, this particular group of NFL fans believes the world revolves around them. I get that. It's like welfare, the longer someone gives you something for nothing, the more you push back when you have to actually earn it for yourself.

So yes, everybody loses here. There are a few teams without rings that are at least inwardly questioning the outcome of those superbowls. And can you blame them? I believe this runs deeper than the pats fans care to admit. If you think that the government's involvement in cleaning up American sports is a waste of time, that is your right - but it's a right you are abusing because you are flat-out wrong.

MB-"Everybody loses". ?? I respect your passion, man. I really do. Youre here in late February in heated discussion about a game that now won't be played again until September. Your opinion is loud and relevant. But its in such a small minority realistically that it almost isnt even registering. You really think people are losing here? Who is losing here? NE fans and members of that organization might be to some degree in the reputation dept., but we'll all get over it. How are Denver fans losing here? Or Raiders fans? Or Dallas fans? Do you want us all to be losing something?? PLAYERS and other members of the NFL arent questioning squat. They know how the game is played. They understand you get away with whatever you can. The envelope is pushed on the regular. You are the one losing here because youre allowing that to happen. You need to chill and let the situation play itself out and quit making this thing out to be something bigger than it is. Or go to work for a ratings DRAGON like ESPN. Theyd absolutely love this JFK-mentality you share. The ratings they starve for are fueled by a singular purpose. But even they understand that in order to continue to hammer a story, there actually needs to be a STORY. Baby steps with this thing, man. Baby steps.

 

[freelander]

I find the bile spewing forth actually makes me feel better, as it is such a naked exposure of how objectified some peoples worlds are.

The only thing better than this experience, is basking in the open honesty of Belichick, and seeing Matt Walsh exposed for the fraud that he is. News Flash - even if you want to lump Pioli in with Belichick and the other "satan"s of the world, you've still got to deal with the fact that they've got other employees willing to step up and call this guy out for attempting to frame or otherwise besmirch the organization as part of his termination.

This is a GREAT DAY for Patriots fans.

And for truth.

Did you just call BB honest? Good lord you have been brainwashed.The organization has been tarnished...you don't want to believe it...but the rest of the sane world knows it. Your boys got busted cheating...then lost in the biggest game there is.

Based on the fact that you choose to pepper your editorial with a reminder of the Patriots SB loss, I conclude that your real agenda is to troll.Congratulations; you've invalidated your own post.

You do realize that when you tell someone they have invalidated their statement, it actually give the statement even more credibility?

Sure it does, skippy.

the agenda's pretty simple. most of these cats' favorite teams took it on the chin by the smug, classless, pathetic, cheating and disgraced Patriots this year, and are lovingly basking in the glow of another team's Superbowl title. Its good stuff. Giants fans - youve got my ear all year. talk all the smack you want. your team actually earned it.

Well, I'm a man without a team (I could, but I choose not to and just enjoy Fantasy Football)... me thinks (at least here) its less about their teams getting beat by those cheating Pats but more having to listen to the likes of you guys (not so much you twitch) all year long... (where the heck is babynewyear?!?)

Great, a fantasy football band wagon jumper that doesn't even have a team to root for... Me thinks this guy know little to nothing...

thanks for proving my point

The antagonism manifested here by Pats fans including babynewyear, myself, and others was created by posters exactly like you. Your posts during the September timeframe betray you attempts to come off as an unbiased poster. The fact that you're continuing your campaign at 6:01 am only further validate that.

How the heck have I tried to come off unbiased? Unbiased about what? I don't like the Pats and thought that was pretty clear. ...and currently, the only campaign I have is to not let personal attacks from Pats fans (or anyone else go without responding).

Also, nice to know that you have conceded that you and the likes of babynewyear had no control over your "antagonistic" ways...and us so-called "haters" are respoonsible for your actions.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Hey Senior you seem like a rational dude so can I give you some friendly advice? If you just ignore these guys and don't acknowledge them, they'll go away. Not sure why you're constantly defending yourself unless you care what they think.

I appreciate the advice, but I could give a flip about what some tools in a football website think of me. If I'm defending anyone, it's Goodell, Belichick, and the players and people in the Patriots organization. I'm always surprised to see people coping attitudes with me and other Patriots fans because we have the "audacity" to defend the Patriots and Belichick because it is so "obvious" that he's a bad person / has no integrity / blah, blah blah. It would be a lot more tolerable if the majority of the most vocal voices weren't people who have an obvious axe to grind (there's about a dozen "hater" all-stars, and they are known).When and if Walsh's version of reality re: a Rams SB walkthrough tape is corroborated, I will throw Belichick under the bus. Until that happens, the "outrage" expressed here about the improper location of a video camera (or that Belichick doesn't know how to shake hands properly, or that he pushed a photographer, etc. etc.) is laughable to me, and I will continue to express that view.

 

[sho nuff]

Hey Senior you seem like a rational dude so can I give you some friendly advice? If you just ignore these guys and don't acknowledge them, they'll go away. Not sure why you're constantly defending yourself unless you care what they think.

I appreciate the advice, but I could give a flip about what some tools in a football website think of me. If I'm defending anyone, it's Goodell, Belichick, and the players and people in the Patriots organization. I'm always surprised to see people coping attitudes with me and other Patriots fans because we have the "audacity" to defend the Patriots and Belichick because it is so "obvious" that he's a bad person / has no integrity / blah, blah blah. It would be a lot more tolerable if the majority of the most vocal voices weren't people who have an obvious axe to grind (there's about a dozen "hater" all-stars, and they are known).When and if Walsh's version of reality re: a Rams SB walkthrough tape is corroborated, I will throw Belichick under the bus. Until that happens, the "outrage" expressed here about the improper location of a video camera (or that Belichick doesn't know how to shake hands properly, or that he pushed a photographer, etc. etc.) is laughable to me, and I will continue to express that view.

But he has already been busted for cheating...yet, you give him the blind benefit of the doubt. That is where the "hate" is coming from.

 

[Philo Beddoe]

This post from Boston.com sums it up. I would also like to know how Matt Walsh was able to retain Michael Levy as his attorney.

Michael Levy Bio

"Okay, this Arlen Specter thing is a really big joke. Anyone who can't see through this is either (1) a gullible dunce, or (2) a media-manipulated Patriot-hater. Here is the breakdown in a nutshell.

The Senate Judiciary Committe has jurisdiction to investigate many things, but relating to the NFL the power would come from it Antitrust jurisdiction. To get specific, there is a "limited antitrust exemption" granted by Congress to the NFL that allows the NFL to be the sole contractor with respect to TV rights for all 32 teams (this is different than the non-statutory labor exemption that allows the NFL management committee to negotiate a CBA with the NFLPA). The STATUTORY exemption is part of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961.

Now, that limited exemption is a bit of a pain in the rear to cable companies because the NFL only deals with the major networks and Direct TV. Thus, cable networks cannot benefit by having the exlcusive right to broadcast a team's games (ala NESN with the Red Sox and YES with the Yankees). This is a big sources of revenue that cable companies like Comcast could be getting but aren't. Add to that the fact that the NFL will not allow the NFL Network to be a "paid cable station," and will not sell to Comcast the Direct Ticket package, and the cable companies are pining for the anti-trust exemption of the SBA to be revoked. Imagine if a cable company could deal with NFL teams individually? Comcast could have exclusive broadcast rights to the Patriots, the Eagles, etc. That would be huge money for those companies.

Enter Arlen Specter, who is beholden to Comcast. Comcast sees a way to get rid of the limited anti-trust exemption. By using the allegedly "collusive" actions of the NFL in destroying the Patriots tapes or perhaps evidence of widespread cheating, Specter can show that the NFL is anti-competitive, collusive, and not worthy of maintaining the limited exemption. if that exemption gets revoked, it is open season for the rights to broadcast individual team games.

All the reporters out there that think this is about the Patriots are crazy. This is about $$$, plain and simple. Specter wants to find a conspiracy. He is using the press, his position on the judiciary committee, and the weak minds of American football fans as his machinery to pull the NFL down from its "high horse" of collective television negotiating.

You can all believe that this is about the Patriots and how they will be brought down, but if you think that you are as naive as you are stupid. This is a bad thing for the NFL, which is the best run league in sports. To allow Congress to break apart a well oiled machine that has been created by co-operation and an entrepreneurial spirit would be the kind of government interference that Republicans like Specter usually reserve for morals only.

Conclusion: Fans of every team should protest this garbage. It will destroy the NFL as you know it and will only make big market teams like the Patriots even stronger."

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

Right because destroying evidence isn't about hiding anything is it? He might not be hiding behind lawyers, but he's hiding something and you know it. Look, if it was Tagliabu who destroyed the tapes, I'd believe him. And I'd believe him because nothing ever happend on his watch. The guy was never in the news so for whatever reason I'd at least trust him. I'm starting to think Goodell is as pompous as Belichick is arrogant. Goodell's sanctimonious stance on what the pats did or didn't do is patently offensive to me. He knows what 7 solid years of cheating would do to his league and he's evidently prepared to go down with his ship. Great. Go ahead Rog. The problem here is that it's not just the pats and the pats fans who are suffering. I know as a whole, this particular group of NFL fans believes the world revolves around them. I get that. It's like welfare, the longer someone gives you something for nothing, the more you push back when you have to actually earn it for yourself.

So yes, everybody loses here. There are a few teams without rings that are at least inwardly questioning the outcome of those superbowls. And can you blame them? I believe this runs deeper than the pats fans care to admit. If you think that the government's involvement in cleaning up American sports is a waste of time, that is your right - but it's a right you are abusing because you are flat-out wrong.

MB-"Everybody loses". ?? I respect your passion, man. I really do. Youre here in late February in heated discussion about a game that now won't be played again until September. Your opinion is loud and relevant. But its in such a small minority realistically that it almost isnt even registering. You really think people are losing here? Who is losing here? NE fans and members of that organization might be to some degree in the reputation dept., but we'll all get over it. How are Denver fans losing here? Or Raiders fans? Or Dallas fans? Do you want us all to be losing something?? PLAYERS and other members of the NFL arent questioning squat. They know how the game is played. They understand you get away with whatever you can. The envelope is pushed on the regular. You are the one losing here because youre allowing that to happen. You need to chill and let the situation play itself out and quit making this thing out to be something bigger than it is. Or go to work for a ratings DRAGON like ESPN. Theyd absolutely love this JFK-mentality you share. The ratings they starve for are fueled by a singular purpose. But even they understand that in order to continue to hammer a story, there actually needs to be a STORY. Baby steps with this thing, man. Baby steps.

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

 

[twitch]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Not quite extinguished yet, me thinks. We'll see what happens. I hope for your sake and for that of the NFL this walsh character is a nobody with nothing. I don't want this to end badly. But I don't want it swept under the rug either. I can see that there is no way for you to debate this rationally, but that's ok. I suppose fandom is blind.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

 

[twitch]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

"Its not extinguished at all". That's more, "Im tired of watching my team get thumped by these guys every year, and I sure do hope they find something more on them because this crap's really getting old" speak. Let me know when I start getting warm here.

 

[sho nuff]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

"Its not extinguished at all". That's more, "Im tired of watching my team get thumped by these guys every year, and I sure do hope they find something more on them because this crap's really getting old" speak. Let me know when I start getting warm here.

Not even close.But predictable.

 

[twitch]

Not even close.

But predictable.

indeed.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

"Its not extinguished at all". That's more, "Im tired of watching my team get thumped by these guys every year, and I sure do hope they find something more on them because this crap's really getting old" speak. Let me know when I start getting warm here.

Thats what you try and equate it to?Thats your debate in regards to the cheating by the Patriots and subsequent discussions?

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Hey Senior you seem like a rational dude so can I give you some friendly advice? If you just ignore these guys and don't acknowledge them, they'll go away. Not sure why you're constantly defending yourself unless you care what they think.

I appreciate the advice, but I could give a flip about what some tools in a football website think of me. If I'm defending anyone, it's Goodell, Belichick, and the players and people in the Patriots organization. I'm always surprised to see people coping attitudes with me and other Patriots fans because we have the "audacity" to defend the Patriots and Belichick because it is so "obvious" that he's a bad person / has no integrity / blah, blah blah. It would be a lot more tolerable if the majority of the most vocal voices weren't people who have an obvious axe to grind (there's about a dozen "hater" all-stars, and they are known).When and if Walsh's version of reality re: a Rams SB walkthrough tape is corroborated, I will throw Belichick under the bus. Until that happens, the "outrage" expressed here about the improper location of a video camera (or that Belichick doesn't know how to shake hands properly, or that he pushed a photographer, etc. etc.) is laughable to me, and I will continue to express that view.

But he has already been busted for cheating...yet, you give him the blind benefit of the doubt. That is where the "hate" is coming from.

Look at the logic tree:A. Belichick is found guilty of A (sideline videotaping). He is punished, admits to it, apologizes, and moves on.

B. Belichick is accused of B (videotaping a SB walkthru). He denies it vehemently, and we learn that the accuser is less than credible.

C. You conclude because he is guilty of A that he is guilty of B, and accuse me of giving him the "blind benefit of the doubt".

Now from my perspective, when others immediately conclude that he is guilty of B, and they typically pepper that conclusion with references to this year's SB loss, or BB pushing a photographer, or of BB being guilty of miscellaneous character infractions, it seems pretty obvious who is being biased or "blind".

 

[twitch]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

"Its not extinguished at all". That's more, "Im tired of watching my team get thumped by these guys every year, and I sure do hope they find something more on them because this crap's really getting old" speak. Let me know when I start getting warm here.

Thats what you try and equate it to?Thats your debate in regards to the cheating by the Patriots and subsequent discussions?

What's there to debate again? We're not debating a thing. This is a discussion. Join in or go polish those rings.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

And I respect your passion. There is no way I would ever expect the pats fans to just roll on this. In fact, what I expect (the opposite) is exactly what is happening. Deny, deny, deny. I wouldn't want to believe my team cheated either. But you make it seem as though there are a couple of powerful anti-pats fans in office right now who are bound and determined to bring down the mighty empire. How is that not a "JFK-mentality" as you'd say? And no, I don't "want us all to be losing something." What I want is a level playing field. If I am happy with the entertainment value and the tradition that the NFL represents to me why shouldn't I be equally as unhappy with the idea that what is happening on the field isn't legitimate? Like I said before, the pats fans are brushing the significance of this situation off as unimportant and as the pats "getting away with whatever you can." I call BS. No way this is not a big deal. It's a big deal because where there's smoke there's fire and right now it's getting hard to see in Foxboro.

See, there's my point. This catchy little phrase has pretty much become the anthem. And I liked it when Tomlin said it back in September. And it was revealed to be true. The smoke has not only been seen, its been identified as a fire and been extinguished. But at this point, the smoke is being artificially formed. And there isnt really anything new for me to currently deny. Noone wants to get to the bottom of this thing more than Patriots fans. Believe me.

Its not extinguished at all. Thats more "were moving on" speak.

"Its not extinguished at all". That's more, "Im tired of watching my team get thumped by these guys every year, and I sure do hope they find something more on them because this crap's really getting old" speak. Let me know when I start getting warm here.

Thats what you try and equate it to?Thats your debate in regards to the cheating by the Patriots and subsequent discussions?

What's there to debate again? We're not debating a thing. This is a discussion. Join in or go polish those rings.

Sure there is, you tried to say its extinguished when its obviously not.I said its more "moving on speak", which is on point for the discussion at hand (need Belichicks quotes?)... and you went to some lame ### arrghtard rebuttal.

 

[twitch]

Sure there is, you tried to say its extinguished when its obviously not.

I said its more "moving on speak", which is on point for the discussion at hand (need Belichicks quotes?)... and you went to some lame ### arrghtard rebuttal.

Well, lets have it then. Do you have some new, actual facts to debate on this subject? Or are you gonna just point the finger and make wild assumptions as well? Young Mr. Walsh isnt saying much. He's not showing much. Seems to be reported that its the NFL slowing this process down. Id argue that fact. Walsh himself is the one slowing this thing down. He is a known Patriots season ticket holder, though. We could debate whether or not he's planning on selling his tickets. Or we could debate WHY it is he's in possession of stolen property. Or why Senator Specter's picking on the NFL on behalf of Comcast and not wanting to speak on that. His #1 and #2 campaign contributors are Comcast itself and the law firm representing Comcast. I find that just remarkable that noone in mainstream media reports that juicy little tidbit. There's much to debate. Take any of that and run with it. I'll promise not to bring up that 21 point loss again.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

It isnt up to a Pat fan to decide if anything is extinguished.

It isnt up to a Pat fan to decide if anyone is moving on.

It isnt up to a Pat fan to call forth any evidence or witnesses.

Until these things happen, the debate and conversations continue. Due process.

We do know the Pats cheated. We know they ignored warnings. Thus the parallel of who is credible and who is not is drawn.