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Best Buy can kiss my fanny good-bye (2 Viewers)

Your building a lot of assumptions into this

1. Your assuming the widget has no value

2. That I've told them 50 other people are with me on this (Do I need to give them some fruit too?)

3. That if I told 50 other people "Politician Spock's store wouldn't give me fruit for this worthless widget" they'd respond with a collective "What a bunch of arseholes! We're never shopping there again."  (what color is the sky in that world?)
1) Yes. For it to be unethical, the widget has to have no value to the store.2) No. The store just has to believe your threat is real. You could be BS-ing you #### off, it's still unethical.

3) Again no. You could threaten the store without anyone else's knowledge at all. All you have to do is convince the store your threat is real.
2) again, you are assuming that I've TOLD THEM 50 other people are with me on.
It could be 50, it could be 1, it could be 100, it could be 10,000, it could even be 0 if you could convince them you alone are an incredibly valuable customer. It really doesn't F-ing matter. All that matters is that the store believes you could hurt their business.
 
Your building a lot of assumptions into this

1. Your assuming the widget has no value

2. That I've told them 50 other people are with me on this (Do I need to give them some fruit too?)

3. That if I told 50 other people "Politician Spock's store wouldn't give me fruit for this worthless widget" they'd respond with a collective "What a bunch of arseholes! We're never shopping there again."  (what color is the sky in that world?)
1) Yes. For it to be unethical, the widget has to have no value to the store.2) No. The store just has to believe your threat is real. You could be BS-ing you #### off, it's still unethical.

3) Again no. You could threaten the store without anyone else's knowledge at all. All you have to do is convince the store your threat is real.
2) again, you are assuming that I've TOLD THEM 50 other people are with me on.
It could be 50, it could be 1, it could be 100, it could be 10,000, it could even be 0 if you could convince them you alone are an incredibly valuable customer. It really doesn't F-ing matter. All that matters is that the store believes you could hurt their business.
If the store believes I'm an incredibly valuable customer then they are getting value -- my future business. (in fact, the future business of the 100's of people that are with me.)If the store is getting value it is not unethical.

 
If the store believes I'm an incredibly valuable customer then they are getting value -- my future business. (in fact, the future business of the 100's of people that are with me.)

If the store is getting value it is not unethical.
So if you went up to the customer service counter and pulled out a gun and said give me free fruit and I will let you live, that would be ethical to you because they are getting future value in the transaction: they get to live.I am pretty sure your answer is that such a scenario is unethical. So I'll go ahead and respond to that assumption.

Both the threat of loss of life example and the threat of loss of business example are examples of extortion, but contain different levels of severity. To you the ethics of each is determined by the level of severity: threatening loss of life is unethical, threatening loss of business is ethical. To me it's the tactic (extortion) that is unethical. I believe making someone do what you want for no other reason than to aovid the repurcussions of your threat is unethical.

 
I like this discussion, Im going to try and pry myself in. However, I need a better definition of unethical (if I missed it I am sorry) pertaining to this discussion of I am to participate.JAA

 
I like this discussion, Im going to try and pry myself in. However, I need a better definition of unethical (if I missed it I am sorry) pertaining to this discussion of I am to participate.JAA
What is ethical and unethical is determined by the ethics being used, ethics being a set of principles of right conduct. Since everyone's ethics are different, everyone has a different definition of what is ethical and what is not.
 
I like this discussion, Im going to try and pry myself in. However, I need a better definition of unethical (if I missed it I am sorry) pertaining to this discussion of I am to participate.JAA
What is ethical and unethical is determined by the ethics being used, ethics being a set of principles of right conduct. Since everyone's ethics are different, everyone has a different definition of what is ethical and what is not.
Sounds like we need to agree on a set of ethics before we continue ...
 
If the store believes I'm an incredibly valuable customer then they are getting value -- my future business. (in fact, the future business of the 100's of people that are with me.)

If the store is getting value it is not unethical.
So if you went up to the customer service counter and pulled out a gun and said give me free fruit and I will let you live, that would be ethical to you because they are getting future value in the transaction: they get to live.I am pretty sure your answer is that such a scenario is unethical. So I'll go ahead and respond to that assumption.

Both the threat of loss of life example and the threat of loss of business example are examples of extortion, but contain different levels of severity. To you the ethics of each is determined by the level of severity: threatening loss of life is unethical, threatening loss of business is ethical. To me it's the tactic (extortion) that is unethical. I believe making someone do what you want for no other reason than to aovid the repurcussions of your threat is unethical.
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store. in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.

 
please, let the ethics question go......You two aren't even speaking the same language

 
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store. in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.

I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.
Well, if the only value the store is getting from the transaction is your future patronage, and you do not feel that you owe that store your future patronage then the transaction is based on your decieving them. To me that is unethical as well. If it's ethical to you so be it.
 
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store. in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.

I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.
Well, if the only value the store is getting from the transaction is your future patronage, and you do not feel that you owe that store your future patronage then the transaction is based on your decieving them. To me that is unethical as well. If it's ethical to you so be it.
cart before the horse.
 
Sounds like we need to agree on a set of ethics before we continue ...
I said the same thing yesterday when this who tangent started:
Again, everyone's ethics are different. What you find ethical others may not find ethical. Debating what is ethical and what is not is an endless task for many issues. Some people in this world believe it is ethical to be a suicide bomber.
As such, I agree with MelvinTScupper in that we aren't even speaking the same language. Most every ethical debate ends this way.
 
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store.  in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.

I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.
Well, if the only value the store is getting from the transaction is your future patronage, and you do not feel that you owe that store your future patronage then the transaction is based on your decieving them. To me that is unethical as well. If it's ethical to you so be it.
cart before the horse.
Or the belief that a customer has no responsibility to the store. Anyone who has taken Business Ethics in college understands that in any transaction Party A AND Party B BOTH have responsibilities. But this country is full of uneducated and uninformed people who believe in nothing be "Me, Me, Me". No personal responsibility for anything they are involved in.
 
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store.  in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.

I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.
Well, if the only value the store is getting from the transaction is your future patronage, and you do not feel that you owe that store your future patronage then the transaction is based on your decieving them. To me that is unethical as well. If it's ethical to you so be it.
cart before the horse.
Or the belief that a customer has no responsibility to the store. Anyone who has taken Business Ethics in college understands that in any transaction Party A AND Party B BOTH have responsibilities. But this country is full of uneducated and uninformed people who believe in nothing be "Me, Me, Me". No personal responsibility for anything they are involved in.
actually, I think we summed it all up when we agreed that in todays worldethical = whatever you can get away with

 
Sue their asses off!!!!!!Anyway, I like Best Buy for CD's and DVD's and stuff, but I'll never make any major purchases there again. I once bought a TV there, the picture was messed up from the day I got it, so I tried to exchange it (had the receipt, box, and everything) and they wouldn't let me. They made me send it away to get fixed, wouldn't pay for the shipping, it came back exactly the same. Rinse and repeat, it's four weeks later and I still don't have a functional television. And they won't do anything about it except send it to the repair shop despite the fact that they've already tried to fix it three times.So I'd finally had it. I just brought the thing back to Best Buy, chunked it on the floor, and told them if they couldn't help me I wasn't going to make any more payments on it. And I did it.........the next month when I got my bill, I sent it back with a letter explaining why I refused to make any more payments. That was over a year ago, and I still haven't heard anything about it. With the one payment I made, plus shipping the thing twice, I got screwed out of almost 150 bucks.
What you have written reallly concerns me about Best Buy. But please help me understand the following:1) They always have had a 30 day return policy. So are you saying they broke their 30 day return policy?2) If they broke their own 30 day return policy why have you allowed them to screw you out of 150 bucks? Its a very simple case to prove in court.If what you are saying is true I will never shop their either. I mean #### if they can break their own return policies at will I want to know now before I spend another dime in that store! Thanks for the info man! :thumbup:
 
You are under the mistaken impression that I am somehow obligated to bring my future business to that particular grocery store.  in the gun example, I am obligated to allow the store manger to live.

I don't owe the store any future patronage, and any grocer would be privileged to have it.
Well, if the only value the store is getting from the transaction is your future patronage, and you do not feel that you owe that store your future patronage then the transaction is based on your decieving them. To me that is unethical as well. If it's ethical to you so be it.
cart before the horse.
Or the belief that a customer has no responsibility to the store. Anyone who has taken Business Ethics in college understands that in any transaction Party A AND Party B BOTH have responsibilities. But this country is full of uneducated and uninformed people who believe in nothing be "Me, Me, Me". No personal responsibility for anything they are involved in.
but the ethics are in honoring any representations made.there is nothing unethical about offering cookies for fruit.

my interpretation of the representations made in this situation are:

1. I am giving you cookies

2. If I say that I won't shop there any more if they don't do the deal, then I am offering to include them in the bidding process for all my future business, and if I already shop there regularly, it is implied that they will win this bidding process on a regular basis.

If I keep up my end of the deal, I have done nothing wrong.

There is nothing unethical and you have to read a heck of a lot into it to try to make it seem otherwise.

 
ethical = whatever you can get away with
ethics = whatever you feel comfortable getting away withBut, everyone's definition of ethics is different. So, your ethical is not my ethical is not Spock's ethical.
 
there is nothing unethical about offering cookies for fruit.
I never said it was unethical in such a simple offer such as this. It is unethical when 1) the cookies have no value to the store

AND

2) The only reason they would accept the transaction is to avoid your threat of repurcussions.

Constantly converting the scenario into obtuse generalizations that don't specifically contain the two attributes above which combined is what makes scenario unethical will never convince me that the scenario is ethical. Give it up.

 
1) Big assumption my Vulcan friend2) There is no "threat" as they have not earned my future business yet. I am not obligated to give it to them. I am a free man. I can shop anywhere I want.

 
1) Big assumption my Vulcan friend
What the heck does "assumption" have to do with it? It's a boolean condition. If cookies = no value to store, then variable #1 is true. The only assumption that can be made is when you are looking at the scenario with unknown variables, for instance we don't know if the cookies have value or not. If variables are still unknown, there is no way to know if the action is ethical using these two rules.
2) There is no "threat" as they have not earned my future business yet. I am not obligated to give it to them. I am a free man. I can shop anywhere I want.
If the cookies have no value to the store and you are not proposing a threat to them, they will tell you to leave with your worthless cookies. That's perfectly ethical.
 
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1) Big assumption my Vulcan friend
What the heck does "assumption" have to do with it? It's a boolean condition. If cookies = no value to store, then variable #1 is true. The only assumption that can be made is when you are looking at the scenario with unknown variables, for instance we don't know if the cookies have value or not. If variables are still unknown, there is no way to know if the action is ethical using these two rules.
2) There is no "threat" as they have not earned my future business yet.  I am not obligated to give it to them.  I am a free man.  I can shop anywhere I want.
If the cookies have no value to the store and you are not proposing a threat to them, they will tell you to leave with your worthless cookies. That's perfectly ethical.
whatever Mr pointy ears.bottom line is that it's not unethical.If the store wants to kiss my #### by accepting worthless cookies in the hope of my future patronage and I continue to take them into consideration for my future purchases we are sqaure, above board, completely legit and 100% ethical.the endfinisfinitoend of storyhasta la vista
 
whatever Mr pointy ears.bottom line is that it's not unethical.If the store wants to kiss my #### by accepting worthless cookies in the hope of my future patronage and I continue to take them into consideration for my future purchases we are sqaure, above board, completely legit and 100% ethical.the endfinisfinitoend of storyhasta la vista
Congratulations on sharing the same business ethics as today's average American shopper. :rant: :reg: :rant:
 
whatever Mr pointy ears.bottom line is that it's not unethical.If the store wants to kiss my #### by accepting worthless cookies in the hope of my future patronage and I continue to take them into consideration for my future purchases we are sqaure, above board, completely legit and 100% ethical.the endfinisfinitoend of storyhasta la vista
Congratulations on sharing the same business ethics as today's average American shopper. :rant: :reg: :rant:
what specifically is unethical? I made an offer. They accepted. They get value (future consideration) and I get value. where's the problem?
 
what specifically is unethical? I made an offer. They accepted. They get value (future consideration) and I get value. where's the problem?
Are the mafia's business practices ethical?:
what specifically is unethical? I made an offer. They accepted. They get value (they get to live) and I get value. where's the problem?
 
What the heck does "assumption" have to do with it? It's a boolean condition. If cookies = no value to store, then variable #1 is true. The only assumption that can be made is when you are looking at the scenario with unknown variables, for instance we don't know if the cookies have value or not. If variables are still unknown, there is no way to know if the action is ethical using these two rules.
GOT MILK? :brush:
 
Are the mafia's business practices ethical?:

what specifically is unethical? I made an offer.  They accepted.  They get value (they get to live) and I get value.  where's the problem?
we've been over this. The mafia proposes to do things that they have no ethical (or legal) right to do, such as bodily harm.
 
Are the mafia's business practices ethical?:

what specifically is unethical? I made an offer.  They accepted.  They get value (they get to live) and I get value.  where's the problem?
we've been over this. The mafia proposes to do things that they have no ethical (or legal) right to do, such as bodily harm.
OH! So when YOU break down your broad generalization of what is an ethical business transacation, you can find instances where paticular circumstances can make the transaction unethical. But God forbid that I break down your broad generalization of what is an ethical business transaction and find instances where paticular circumstances can make the transaction unethical. :rolleyes:

 
WTF??

Is this some sort of twisted, last ditch effort to earn the "Dumbest Thread of the Year" Award??? :thumbdown:

Good Lord...at least start with some creative name-calling or something!!

Bottom Line: If you don't like a certain business....don't give them your money....it's a very simple matter.

 
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I was thinking of writing the CFO or CEO and telling him about my adventure into his store. Then ask him if this is the way they treat their customers, how do they treat their shareholders?
Although it's always possible that this may come to naught, I've found that this strategy often works to a tee. When not getting scammed by discount electronic stores, you seem to be a very rational and eloquent person. If you were to secure the proper address of the CEO (and not some bogus customer service center) -- which, if you are a trader you might be privy to from certain prospecti -- these types of letters often illicit a response from the head cheeses, sometimes even with renumeration.It helps to get this off your chest into a pointed letter, and sometimes you will get some tangible satisfaction from it.
 
Although it's always possible that this may come to naught, I've found that this strategy often works to a tee. When not getting scammed by discount electronic stores, you seem to be a very rational and eloquent person. If you were to secure the proper address of the CEO (and not some bogus customer service center) -- which, if you are a trader you might be privy to from certain prospecti -- these types of letters often illicit a response from the head cheeses, sometimes even with renumeration.It helps to get this off your chest into a pointed letter, and sometimes you will get some tangible satisfaction from it.
GM,Did you write the letter?
 
Although it's always possible that this may come to naught, I've found that this strategy often works to a tee. When not getting scammed by discount electronic stores, you seem to be a very rational and eloquent person. If you were to secure the proper address of the CEO (and not some bogus customer service center) -- which, if you are a trader you might be privy to from certain prospecti -- these types of letters often illicit a response from the head cheeses, sometimes even with renumeration.It helps to get this off your chest into a pointed letter, and sometimes you will get some tangible satisfaction from it.
GM,Did you write the letter?
I've come to the conclusion that this would only extend my myopia that I'm in the right. I am not. I should have kept my receipt. Yeah, I'm bitter, but at the end of the day, I'm the one at fault. Not the CEO of BBY or the manager or the lady taking returns. I acted like an #### when I could have avoided it all by just keeping the receipt. It's my fault and writing a letter deflects the blame - that's not right in this case.
 
I've come to the conclusion that this would only extend my myopia that I'm in the right. I am not. I should have kept my receipt. Yeah, I'm bitter, but at the end of the day, I'm the one at fault. Not the CEO of BBY or the manager or the lady taking returns. I acted like an #### when I could have avoided it all by just keeping the receipt. It's my fault and writing a letter deflects the blame - that's not right in this case.
Who are you, and what have you done with my GM? The GM I know would drive back to Best Buy, grab the lady taking returns, drag her over to Cruiser's house, and THROW HER IN THE HOLE!You must be a kindler, gentler GM. I weep for the future.
 
I've come to the conclusion that this would only extend my myopia that I'm in the right. I am not. I should have kept my receipt. Yeah, I'm bitter, but at the end of the day, I'm the one at fault. Not the CEO of BBY or the manager or the lady taking returns. I acted like an #### when I could have avoided it all by just keeping the receipt. It's my fault and writing a letter deflects the blame - that's not right in this case.
Who are you, and what have you done with my GM? The GM I know would drive back to Best Buy, grab the lady taking returns, drag her over to Cruiser's house, and THROW HER IN THE HOLE!You must be a kindler, gentler GM. I weep for the future.
Actually the GM you know would have made a stop at the racetrack and blown the $19.99 on the ponies and never made it to Best Buy. That guy needs to be much more careful about who he gives his username and password to.
 
#### best buy and their wrinkly ball sac :hot: :hot: :hot: :hot: i just bought a home theater system and i get home and there is a piece missing... a very important piece. i call them up and tell them and they tell me what the part is and they describe it and say they have it. i drive across town to find out they do not have the part i need and thus making me late to go to any other store... a "specialty" store that would have the part... Radio Shack. so, i sit here tonite bored off my ### and cannot test out my new system because they failed to tell me about the part they did not have. mind you they are across town, 20 minute drive, compared to Radio Shack which is a 5 minute drive, that made the whole difference... screw best buy and everything they stand for.i never thought i would say this but circuit city is going to get my business from now on unless i buy from the internet... :hot: :rant: :hot: :rant: :hot: :rant:

 
LOL at GTGG and MIC....I love you guys. In the Jesus Way.:well,onlyforMIC ;) :
I bet you say that to all of the guys you meet from Fantasy Football messageboards and take to strip clubs.
maybe....but hopefully saying it the way I did will lure GTGG to Oregon where I can take her to strip clubs!
 
What you have written reallly concerns me about Best Buy. But please help me understand the following:1) They always have had a 30 day return policy. So are you saying they broke their 30 day return policy?2) If they broke their own 30 day return policy why have you allowed them to screw you out of 150 bucks? Its a very simple case to prove in court.
1. They said it was a design flaw, not a manufacturer's defect. Yeah, I know what you're thinking........what's the difference. I asked the same question and got a big mumbo-jumbo answer that I'm sure makes perfect sense to a lawyer, but I ain't no lawyer.2. I decided that it just wasn't worth it. I've got better things to do with my time and money. It's not worth the stress, the headaches, or the court costs.......and quite frankly, I make enough money that I don't need to work myself into a tizzy over $142.75. My sister did show me a site called planetfeedback.com where you can register complaints for most major retailers, restaurants, etc. But I kept forgetting to do it. I'm sure it's past the statute of limitations or whatever loophole they have by now.
 
#### best buy and their wrinkly ball sac :hot: :hot: :hot: :hot: i just bought a home theater system and i get home and there is a piece missing... a very important piece. i call them up and tell them and they tell me what the part is and they describe it and say they have it. i drive across town to find out they do not have the part i need and thus making me late to go to any other store... a "specialty" store that would have the part... Radio Shack. so, i sit here tonite bored off my ### and cannot test out my new system because they failed to tell me about the part they did not have. mind you they are across town, 20 minute drive, compared to Radio Shack which is a 5 minute drive, that made the whole difference... screw best buy and everything they stand for.i never thought i would say this but circuit city is going to get my business from now on unless i buy from the internet... :hot: :rant: :hot: :rant: :hot: :rant:
well, although I feel for you, I curse you as well for buying a "theatre system" which = turd bag speakers........anyway, CC is filled with more tools....so, regardless of the mistake, go for the lesser of two evils.
 
Let's bump this back to the top. This is a good one.My wife buys 2 copies of the Grand Theft Auto pack from BestBuy.com for $49.99 each. One she bought for a friend and the other she bought to give me as a Christmas gift.Yesterday we see that Circuit City had them for $37.99. So she calls BestBuy.com to get a price adjustment and they tell her they cannot help her!! That they are NOT apart of Best Buy!! Yet you can return the items to any store for credit. That makes no sense.The Customer Service rep tells my wife she would have to return them for credit and repurchase them! So my wife says, ok...I will return them and buy them at CC and the rep asked if there was anything else he could do to help her. :eek: He didn't even give in a little.Then wen my wife asked to speak to a supervisor, she was told he was in a meeting. BLAH BLAH BLAH.So today I will be returning them for credit and driving 2 blocks over to buy them at CC.How stupid is that? :wall:

 
Let's bump this back to the top. This is a good one.My wife buys 2 copies of the Grand Theft Auto pack from BestBuy.com for $49.99 each. One she bought for a friend and the other she bought to give me as a Christmas gift.Yesterday we see that Circuit City had them for $37.99. So she calls BestBuy.com to get a price adjustment and they tell her they cannot help her!! That they are NOT apart of Best Buy!! Yet you can return the items to any store for credit. That makes no sense.The Customer Service rep tells my wife she would have to return them for credit and repurchase them! So my wife says, ok...I will return them and buy them at CC and the rep asked if there was anything else he could do to help her. :eek: He didn't even give in a little.Then wen my wife asked to speak to a supervisor, she was told he was in a meeting. BLAH BLAH BLAH.So today I will be returning them for credit and driving 2 blocks over to buy them at CC.How stupid is that? :wall:
in other words, bestbuy.com is run by a fulfillment call center. What, did you think that BBY has their own call center?A store (assuming BBY has a price match guarantee) will do the credit.
 
I suppose you think DELL has a big room someplace where all their customer service reps work, too?

 
I suppose you think DELL has a big room someplace where all their customer service reps work, too?
Don't you think they would do the credit? They have no problem taking the money. WTF are they good for then?Actually we are going to go to the store first to see if they issue the credit.
 
While I sympathize with GM, I think he's wrong. Many of us have gotten used to the liberal return policies that have become prevalent at many stores over the last 20 years or so but that is all changing and its changing very quickly. I think you would be surprised to learn how many of the major chains have adopted a similar policy over the last year or so (most of them). The reason is simple, they've been losing millions of dollars a year due to customer fraud by people taking advantage of the liberal return policies by doing things like buying something at one store on sale and returning it to another store where its selling at full price, etc. I know this because I worked in the IT department for a nationwide retail chain for ten years and part of what I worked on was security reporting systems. You'd be surprised at how many different return fraud variations some people come up with.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 
General,I would start by sending e-mails here:Investor Contacts: Jennifer Driscoll, Vice President of Investor Relations(612) 291-6110 or jennifer.driscoll@bestbuy.com Shannon Burns, Senior Investor Relations Manager(612) 291-6126 or shannon.burns@bestbuy.com Or you can go to the top and send it to the Vice-Chairman and CEO:bradbury.anderson@bestsbuy.comBut, really calls are best. You would be surprised who you can actually get in touch with. I wouldn't mention the tipping over the display or the bad attitude.
MY letter is on it's way!!
 
General,I would start by sending e-mails here:Investor Contacts: Jennifer Driscoll, Vice President of Investor Relations(612) 291-6110 or jennifer.driscoll@bestbuy.com Shannon Burns, Senior Investor Relations Manager(612) 291-6126 or shannon.burns@bestbuy.com Or you can go to the top and send it to the Vice-Chairman and CEO:bradbury.anderson@bestsbuy.comBut, really calls are best. You would be surprised who you can actually get in touch with. I wouldn't mention the tipping over the display or the bad attitude.
MY letter is on it's way!!
oh no....not this thread again.
 
General,I would start by sending e-mails here:Investor Contacts:  Jennifer Driscoll, Vice President of Investor Relations(612) 291-6110 or jennifer.driscoll@bestbuy.com  Shannon Burns, Senior Investor Relations Manager(612) 291-6126 or shannon.burns@bestbuy.com Or you can go to the top and send it to the Vice-Chairman and CEO:bradbury.anderson@bestsbuy.comBut, really calls are best.  You would be surprised who you can actually get in touch with. I wouldn't mention the tipping over the display or the bad attitude.
MY letter is on it's way!!
oh no....not this thread again.
Now I have to re-read this thing to understand the context of why I wrote that.This is the second FFA flashback I have had today.
 

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