The old guard of Pace, Ogden and Jones are coming to the end of their great careers. Are one of them still on top, or has a young buck like D'Brick, McNeil or JBrown taken the top spot? I figure Oline is impossible for us amateurs to really know who the best are(no stats, don't break down film), but am interested in hearing some opinions.
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Best LT in football (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Zigg
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Colin Dowling
Footballguy
[obligatory]
Tomlinson
[/obligatory]
Tomlinson
[/obligatory]
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
D'Brick got oVVned this weekend. He's having an OK rookie season relative to the expectations for a top-five pick.
If your going to set the big boys aside, then it goes to guys like Levi Jones well before the youngsters.
Koya
Footballguy
Me too.And as good as LT2 is this year, he won't ever be what LT was.And that is saying a LOT because it is quite possible that when all things finish, LT2 will be at least in the conversation as the best RB ever with a chance to be considered the best ever.But even with that Moniker, he has not changed the game, utterly reinvented not only his position but offense AND defense all on his own.(sorry, I just love me some LT - like a bunch of crazed dogs!!!)
DanFouts
Footballguy
He is also not a dope head.....LT2 is the real LT....
Those items are probably related. You can't grab somebody's jersey when you're wearing a cast.
Banger
Footballguy
good point. Maybe the new trend will be for tackles to intentionally break their hands or put them in casts so as not to hold...Those items are probably related. You can't grab somebody's jersey when you're wearing a cast.
Phlash
Footballguy
Are you suggesting that he should break his hands before every season so he's not tempted to hold?Those items are probably related. You can't grab somebody's jersey when you're wearing a cast.
EdwardCat
Footballguy
Is there a problem with it if he is?Are you suggesting that he should break his hands before every season so he's not tempted to hold?Those items are probably related. You can't grab somebody's jersey when you're wearing a cast.
The Jacket
Footballguy
Tomlinson's god. It is he that makes McNeill look good.
doughboydeluxe
Footballguy
All-Time LT Cheatsheet
1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Lawrence Taylor
3. Lionel Taylor
4. Lofa Tatupu
5. Leonard Thompson
6. Lewis Tillman
7. Lawrence Tynes
8. Lamar Thomas
9. Lars Tate
10. LaBrandon Toefield
11. Lawyer Tillman
12. Larry Todd
13. Leroy Thompson
14. Laverne Torczon
1. LaDainian Tomlinson
2. Lawrence Taylor
3. Lionel Taylor
4. Lofa Tatupu
5. Leonard Thompson
6. Lewis Tillman
7. Lawrence Tynes
8. Lamar Thomas
9. Lars Tate
10. LaBrandon Toefield
11. Lawyer Tillman
12. Larry Todd
13. Leroy Thompson
14. Laverne Torczon
Koya
Footballguy
Don't get me wrong, I love LT2, and as a former halfback in HS and college, usually tend to favor that position.But anyone who has LT2 above LT either never saw LT play, and/or totally does not understand the historical significance of LT.Let us look optimistically at LT2... say he ends up not only being mentioned in the company as, but ahead of Payton and specifically Jim Brown as the greatest RB ever. He would still have to be the best offensive player in the history of the league, the most impactful offensive player in the history of the league (including all positions) and one of the 2-3 most influential players at any position, in the history of the league.Much as I love LT2, he might be an immortal, but he is one of the gods... LT is up there with Zeus.
Banger
Footballguy
Not in pass protection.
Koya
Footballguy
It is now.
tomlinson cannot hold a candle to Taylor. period. i don't care if Taylor was blowing lines off Simms' thigh in the huddle... the guy revolutionized the position, and defensive schemes single-handedly. he would make guys like Urlacher look like they're standing still, and he was simply unstoppable. plus, last i checked, he had a couple more rings than tomlinson....PLUS.... taylor went to 10 pro bowls. it's a little too early to be anointing tomlinson the best LT when he hasn't come close to proving the same sustainability taylor had. this isn't even a discussion yet....
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Koya
Footballguy
While the fact that LT revolutionized defense is impressive, what is MORE impressive is how he revolutionized OFFENSE.Gibbs came up with that quick passing scheme because the only way he could come close to combating LT was to get the ball out of the QBs hands almost instantly because no matter how many blockers you asigned to LT, he was going to get to the QB... with a quickness.
One player that revolutionized both sides of the ball of an already mature sport. Wow.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Lawrence Taylor: 10 pro bowls, 10 All-NFC, 9 all pro teams, 3 DPOY
Mike Singletary: 10 pro bowls, 9 All-NFC, 8 all pro teams, 3 DPOY
People talk about LT like he's superman and as if no other defensive player can even match him. I'd say Singletary gets about 20% as much love as LT. Maybe he needs cooler initials?
It's perfectly fair to say LT2 will end up in the same category of elite players that LT is already in. There will never be a consensus all-time greatest RB, and there isn't now a consensus all-time greatest LB, but both LT and LT2 will be in those discussions for a long, long time.
Mike Singletary: 10 pro bowls, 9 All-NFC, 8 all pro teams, 3 DPOY
People talk about LT like he's superman and as if no other defensive player can even match him. I'd say Singletary gets about 20% as much love as LT. Maybe he needs cooler initials?
It's perfectly fair to say LT2 will end up in the same category of elite players that LT is already in. There will never be a consensus all-time greatest RB, and there isn't now a consensus all-time greatest LB, but both LT and LT2 will be in those discussions for a long, long time.
Koya
Footballguy
Sorry to break it to you, but there is definately a consensus all time greatest LB, and his name is not Singletary. Singletary may be the best inside linebacker ever, but that is not a slam dunk - and dont get me wrong, he was a great player.But he had not even close to the impact from a game plan perspective, strategy perspective, disruption perspective nor historical perspective that LT had.Not even close. And that is with an appreciation for Singletary's greatness... he just was not what LT was.
I really, really, really, really like Singletary but...Taylor was just that much better. He is the best football player I have ever seen play. As far as LT, I would take W. Jones.As far as the LT battle, I will take Taylor.
HERE HERE!!!!!good freakin' post.
plus, the difference is... people like Chase are saying that LT2 ***will be*** among the greatest RBs ever... which very well may be true. and he also may fall off the way Faulk and Holmes did after a couple huge years. Taylor, on the other hand, is the barometer by which all other LBs will be judged until the Lebron of LBs comes out and re-revolutionizes the game. until that time, Taylor is indisputably the best LB to ever play the game, and Tomlinson is merely the best RB of the past 2-3 years. *****BIG****** difference.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I don't know that I'd agree that LT is the consensus all time greatest LB but I agree with the points all the posters have made about the impact he had on the game on both sides of the ball.Oh, and Levi Jones is the correct answer IMO.
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M
MLBrandow
Guest
Why is this even a debate? Walter Jones won the MVP last year...
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
Sorry, I don't think it's by any means indisputable that Taylor's the best LB ever. I agree that lots of people feel that way, but there's no consensus on that.
Gr00vus
Footballguy
It's this year now - and the Seattle offense has looked pedestrian without Hutch and with all the injuries.
"Left tackle Walter Jones has declined from arguably the league’s best player to being merely a good tackle." -- Vincent Verhei, 12/14/2006FWIW.
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Chase Stuart
Footballguy
That's not what I said. I think he's got a good chance to be among the greatest ever, but it's by no means a lock.
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
I haven't been able to see many Seahawk games, but Shick! is a homer and experienced observer. He's posted a number of specific instances this year that suggest Jones has slipped significantly this season.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
And Jack Lambert has a couple more rings than Taylor last time I checked.
??? but i'm not going to play semantics. i really don't think that's whats on the table here.i confess to never having actually seen Lambert play. but i think if you're going to cite pro bowls as the backbone to your argument of who is greatest (i used it as a barometer as to sustained success, not to debate who was actually BETTER), then i think you need to go a bit deeper, in my opinion.
i don't think it's a coincidence that if you ask the average fan of football over the past 20+ years, who the best LB in the history of football is, that 80+% wouldn't hesitate and say Taylor. he's the Michael Jordan of NFL defenses not only in terms of impact, but in terms of recognition. that is no mistake.
anything this subjective will have those who can support a debatable argument, but arguments saying that LT was NOT the best LB ever will always have an air of desperate reaching, in my mind. and from the looks of it, i'm not alone....
Jene Bramel
Footballguy
Certainly subjective. And I love LT. But I don't think arguing that **** Butkus or Ray Nitschke have a place in the discussion is desperate reaching.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I really don't think that's true. I could be way off on this, but I doubt Taylor would get even 40% of the votes on a write-in ballot. (If you listed three players, then Taylor might get over 50% of the vote, but if you listed over 10, I don't think he would. There would be lots of votes for Nitschke, Lambert, Lewis, Singletary, Ham and Butkus. Guys like Lanier, Seau, Gradishar and Brooks didn't play in big markets but would probably gets lots of support from their locals.)
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Because he doesn't look nearly as good this season.
mad sweeney
Footballguy
Yeah, LT's running is what puts DTs and DEs on their backs pancake style and keeps them away from Rivers.
The Jacket
Footballguy
LT does not run; he glides.
Despyzer
Lousy Attention Whore
Wow... way to re-write history. Gibbs developed that quick passing scheme the same way that Bill Walsh did, as members of Don Coryell's coaching staff.... roughly two years before Lawrence Taylor came into the league.
EdwardCat
Footballguy
I find it absurd to compare to the players simply because they have the same initials. Let's find the two best players with the initials HW and arbitrarily compare them. How about PM? How about CT?
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Thorpe
Footballguy
I agree with this. People are going to vote for their hometown guy. Even a guy like Zach Thomas would get some votes.
off and def huddle?
PizzaDeliveryGuy
extra sausage
Koya
Footballguy
While I dont have the sources in front of me (and will do some research to ensure I am not misinformed), I had heard and read a number of times that one of the primary reasons for Gibbs playcalling and scheme was because there was simply no other way to stop Taylor.Considering Taylor also ushered in the era of the uber athletic, super fast OLB (D Thomas for example), this was essential not just against the giants but againts other teams as well.Totally not making this up, although it is possible I was misinformed - however this is something I have thought true for some time, so if I am mistaken I need to know (and have no idea where I would have gotten the idea from, Im not creative enough to make this #### up)
Koya
Footballguy
I am not sure if you are once again playing the contrarian, or if we live on different worlds.In the eyes of NFL historians and those who really know the game, LT is by far considered the best LB ever and in the eyes of many the greatest defensive player ever.
But to say LT is not the consensus greatest LB ever seems just false, unless you are talking about polling people who dont really know the history of the game. Talk to people who do, especially players, coaches and historians, and it is LT by a long shot.
LT is to LB as Jordan is to shooting/scoring guards. Both are arguably the best player at any position ever, and are easily the consensus greatest ever at their position.
That is not to say that Jerry West wasnt an all time great - but he was not Jordan.
Nor was Singletary, as great as he was, LT.
Chase Stuart
Footballguy
I really doubt the majority of any population besides Giants homers, thinks that LT is by far the best LB ever. That comment is a slap in the face to some of the game's best players ever, which "NFL historians and those who really know the game" wouldn't say.It's pretty subjective, though. I can understand if you feel that way. I just don't think the majority of people do.
Koya
Footballguy
I dont know what NFL historians and the like you listen to, but this is not me offering a homer sentiment. We are talking consensus, and that exists.As I stated, you are either playing the contrarian again, for the sake of playing contrarian, or we are living in parallel universes.
Consensus doesnt mean every person thinks LT was the best LB ever, but a strong majority.
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