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Betsy Devos....probably going to need her own thread. (1 Viewer)

Coeur de Lion said:
No one would argue with that situation, least of all me. Do you think that this is the typical situation for kids home schooled in the US?
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I don't understand your objection to home schooling.  Or anybody's, really.  Sure, if there was research that home schooling was harmful.  But other than that, what is the problem. 

 
jon_mx said:
Every study has shown this.  You on the other hand have nothing to support your claim.  Really odd to attack the best evidence which exists, when you have nothing. 
Click to expand...
There is absolutely no way to accurately measure performance short of requiring testing for all home schooled children. The data that we do have is very limited and largely worthless.

My (and my family's / friends') personal experiences with both parents that home school and their children, are anecdotal certainly, but do stretch across decades and multiple school districts and parts of the country.

 
The concept of homeschool is fairly absurd from an economic sense.  A healthy mother stays home and doesn't work, so her kids that she pays taxes to go to school don't attend.

So you pay taxes, and the mom draws no salary while working what would be a decent paying job for free. 

 
Coeur de Lion said:
No one would argue with that situation, least of all me. Do you think that this is the typical situation for kids home schooled in the US?
Click to expand...
Far more common than the homeschooled kid who just watches TV all day or the family that is prepping for the apocalypse and teaching 100% from the Bible.

In fact, the above scenario is much closer to reality for the vast majority of home schooled kids in the area I live.  There are three separate homeschoolers co-ops around. They may not all have parents with degrees in education, but they are investing heavily in the full education of their children.  It is miles upon miles better than the BS education kids get in inner city schools, I guarantee you that.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
There is absolutely no way to accurately measure performance short of requiring testing for all home schooled children. The data that we do have is very limited and largely worthless.

My (and my family's / friends') personal experiences with both parents that home school and their children, are anecdotal certainly, but do stretch across decades and multiple school districts and parts of the country.
Click to expand...
10 years ago, I may have agreed with you.

Today, not so much.  Things have drastically improved in this area.

 
culdeus said:
The concept of homeschool is fairly absurd from an economic sense.  A healthy mother stays home and doesn't work, so her kids that she pays taxes to go to school don't attend.

So you pay taxes, and the mom draws no salary while working what would be a decent paying job for free. 
Click to expand...
Public schools are mostly paid thru property taxes, which the families of home school kids pay.  From an economic since, it is a huge win for the public. 

 
There is a HUGE difference between "I don't think home schooling is as good for an individual as public/private/religious school," and "we should make it harder for people to home school and actively discourage people from home schooling."

The former is fine.  The latter is f^cking crazy. 

 
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Sweet J said:
I don't understand your objection to home schooling.  Or anybody's, really.  Sure, if there was research that home schooling was harmful.  But other than that, what is the problem. 
Click to expand...
I don't object to home schooling. I object to our proposed Secretary of Education having a history showing a preference for home schooling and religious private schooling over public schooling.

 
Coeur de Lion said:
I don't object to home schooling. I object to our proposed Secretary of Education having a history showing a preference for home schooling and religious private schooling over public schooling.
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I agree that having a preference for religious private schooling over public education is problematic. More problematic, for me, is the idea of charter schools or vouchers, which feels like it would take resources from local public schools.  And I'm afraid that this would just be a way for rich/upper middle class families to opt out of public schools, rather than stick in it to try and make the school better.

 I just don't really care if someone likes home schooling.  It's something we should all fight for.  An ability to run our household in the best way we think.

 
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Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
My take on homeschool (for the 50th time) as a public school teacher:

I'm all for it.  90% of the time it means I don't have to deal with some goofball family.
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You have about 10 accounts here with probably 100K posts. And have zero tolerance for anything outside of your bubble. I'm sure family's are lining up to be taught by you. 

 
If the goal was to move the entire national education over to charter schools, vouchers, etc. I could see choosing DeVos. It seems like she would be a likely candidate. But since that isn't even her stated intention, it would stand to reason you'd choose someone with either a background in public education or at least someone with a clear plan to tackle the many problems in a system that supports like 90% of the students nationally. She clearly does not fit either.

 
Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds


06/01/2012 11:35 am ET


By Kelsey Sheehy
Between deciphering college financial aid awards and settling into a shoe-box sized dorm room with a perfect stranger or two, making the move from high school to college can be a shock to the system for even the most put-together teenager.
The transition, many may assume, would be even more jarring for students coming from a home-schooled environment.
“Transitioning from home school to college can be a daunting experience, especially with the lack of socialization that is associated with home schooling,” says Los Angeles-based therapist Karen Hylen, who counsels people she says have not made the transition successfully.
But parents and students from the home-schooling community say the nontraditional method yields teens that are more independent and therefore better prepared for college life.
[Learn how to show up at college primed for success.]
More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly four percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.
Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers­ — 66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent — and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.
They’re also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters.


 
jamny said:
If the goal was to move the entire national education over to charter schools, vouchers, etc. I could see choosing DeVos. It seems like she would be a likely candidate. But since that isn't even her stated intention, it would stand to reason you'd choose someone with either a background in public education or at least someone with a clear plan to tackle the many problems in a system that supports like 90% of the students nationally. She clearly does not fit either.
Click to expand...
Again, the DOE has very limited resources to tackle problems at the national level.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
You have about 10 accounts here with probably 100K posts. And have zero tolerance for anything outside of your bubble. I'm sure family's are lining up to be taught by you. 
Click to expand...
:thumbup:   

In the 20 years I've been teaching I've had exactly 1 kid* removed from my class due to "personality conflict".  That's 1 out of about 2300.  

*text book sociopath.  

 
fatguyinalittlecoat said:
Any conservative types on facebook want to share what their feed looks like politically?  I think it could be sorta eye-opening.  Here's the political content as I scroll down my feed right now:
Click to expand...
Interesting experiment.  I post nothing political on Facebook, don't follow any remotely political feeds, etc.  I've taken a few minutes to scroll through my news feed, back to last Friday, and the only political comments I see are:

  • friend posts pic of Trump in Insane Clown Posse style makeup along with the requisite "whoop whoop"
  • friend posting a fake TV poster for "American Horror Story: Inauguration"
  • friend saying Obama should create an EO banning clapping on a subway train
  • a certain FBG poster posting a picture of a tweet saying Obama should resign a day early and make Biden the 45th president to ruin Trump's merchandise
  • a different FBG saying that January 20 should be Meryl Streep movie day
  • friend commenting on how the only Devos posts he sees are negative ones (which is odd because I've seen 0 references to Devos anywhere on my feed; however this friend lives in Michigan)
No news articles, nothing.  I haven't been on Facebook for about a week prior to this though....not much of a Facebooker.  Everything else is apolitical.

 
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Yeah, I'm not doing this again.  

I absolutely believe in the choice to homeschool.  I won't debate on the pros/cons of homeschooling.  We've been down this road many times with no conclusive results.  

But I also stand by my statement above about supporting the homeschooling choice because it means fewer whackadoo parents to deal with.  

 
Ramblin Wreck said:
The Commish said:
"homeschooling" is just a vague term, who knows what is meant by it.  I was unaware at how many different variations there are these days.  They seem to range from "the suck" to "pretty freakin' cool"
Click to expand...
What part sucks and what part is freaking cool?
Click to expand...
In my experience (yes, completely anecdotal at this point) the scale is generally dependent on the approach the parents take in the home schooling.  So, "the suck" would be those parents who don't really do much of anything.  They ask the kid what two plus two is and give them an A in math even if they answer incorrectly.  It would also include those who don't provide a social outlet of any sort for the kids.  This generally leads to the "socially awkward dumb kid" that gives home schooling a bad name.  Certainly not the kid's fault though.  The other end of that spectrum involves networks of families and schools working together to provide a more comprehensive experience for the kids.  Yes, they do their work at home, but they are also provided outlets to play sports with schools.  They can also participate in extracurricular clubs at those schools.  The families work together to do field trips so they can leverage discounts and work hard to provide the social aspects that can be missing.  

Prior to working with a lot of kids that are home schooled and talking with their parents, I assumed the former was the standard.  It's not....it's not close.  They showed me all these various flavors of home schooling...some of them I wouldn't even really consider home schooling....they aren't hardly ever home.  It has evolved more than I ever imagined it could have.  Though, I'd like to see the studies Coeur de Lion has that point to the contrary.  He seems to have some information I don't to be making the statements he is.

 
Reg Lllama of Brixton said:
Yeah, I'm not doing this again.  

I absolutely believe in the choice to homeschool.  I won't debate on the pros/cons of homeschooling.  We've been down this road many times with no conclusive results.  

But I also stand by my statement above about supporting the homeschooling choice because it means fewer whackadoo parents to deal with.  
Click to expand...
A friend of mine was telling me recently he and his wife plan to homeschool their daughter (nearly 1 year old at the moment).  They're believe vaccines cause autism and I believe he's a 9/11 truther.  (and you'll never believe which candidate they voted for)

 
Last edited by a moderator:
culdeus said:
Do religious based schools really exist?  I mean in D/FW 95% of the private schools are religious, but I mean at this point that amounts to having a chapel on campus and a chaplain might show up once a week at lunch or something.  At least here it doesn't mean they are not teaching evolution, and banning school dances.  They are mostly college prep with loads of AP and have no time at all for religious bull####.  I imagine religious schools, much like the rest of the country has gotten away from that way of life in all areas.
Click to expand...
Off the top of my head, I can count 10 private religious affiliated schools in my immediate vicinity (from elementary to high school).

 
jon_mx said:
Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds


06/01/2012 11:35 am ET


By Kelsey Sheehy
Between deciphering college financial aid awards and settling into a shoe-box sized dorm room with a perfect stranger or two, making the move from high school to college can be a shock to the system for even the most put-together teenager.
The transition, many may assume, would be even more jarring for students coming from a home-schooled environment.
“Transitioning from home school to college can be a daunting experience, especially with the lack of socialization that is associated with home schooling,” says Los Angeles-based therapist Karen Hylen, who counsels people she says have not made the transition successfully.
But parents and students from the home-schooling community say the nontraditional method yields teens that are more independent and therefore better prepared for college life.
[Learn how to show up at college primed for success.]
More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly four percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.
Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers­ — 66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent — and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.
They’re also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters.
Click to expand...
Best socialized millennial.  Talk about damning with high praise. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
The Commish said:
In my experience (yes, completely anecdotal at this point) the scale is generally dependent on the approach the parents take in the home schooling.  So, "the suck" would be those parents who don't really do much of anything.  They ask the kid what two plus two is and give them an A in math even if they answer incorrectly.  It would also include those who don't provide a social outlet of any sort for the kids.  This generally leads to the "socially awkward dumb kid" that gives home schooling a bad name.  Certainly not the kid's fault though.  The other end of that spectrum involves networks of families and schools working together to provide a more comprehensive experience for the kids.  Yes, they do their work at home, but they are also provided outlets to play sports with schools.  They can also participate in extracurricular clubs at those schools.  The families work together to do field trips so they can leverage discounts and work hard to provide the social aspects that can be missing.  

Prior to working with a lot of kids that are home schooled and talking with their parents, I assumed the former was the standard.  It's not....it's not close.  They showed me all these various flavors of home schooling...some of them I wouldn't even really consider home schooling....they aren't hardly ever home.  It has evolved more than I ever imagined it could have.  Though, I'd like to see the studies Coeur de Lion has that point to the contrary.  He seems to have some information I don't to be making the statements he is.
Click to expand...
Everything posted here is my experience from the personal one on one attention at home to co-op classes to organized park days/sports and field trips. Their life experience is way better than anything I had growing up in public school.  I see homeschooled teens refereeing little little sports or doing other things in the community.  

I'm not going to say it's definitely better or worse than public school, catholic school, private school or any other school. Each family can make that decision for themselves and I support improving public schools whether I use them or not because all people aren't fortunate enough to have school choices.  I just found coeur's attitude of homeschooling is inferior academically and socially to be incredibly naive, short sighted and ignorant. He clearly knows very little about it. 

 
jon_mx said:
Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds


06/01/2012 11:35 am ET


By Kelsey Sheehy
Between deciphering college financial aid awards and settling into a shoe-box sized dorm room with a perfect stranger or two, making the move from high school to college can be a shock to the system for even the most put-together teenager.
The transition, many may assume, would be even more jarring for students coming from a home-schooled environment.
“Transitioning from home school to college can be a daunting experience, especially with the lack of socialization that is associated with home schooling,” says Los Angeles-based therapist Karen Hylen, who counsels people she says have not made the transition successfully.
But parents and students from the home-schooling community say the nontraditional method yields teens that are more independent and therefore better prepared for college life.
[Learn how to show up at college primed for success.]
More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly four percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.
Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers­ — 66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent — and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.
They’re also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters.
Click to expand...
I don't have any bias for or against homeschooling in general, but these are kind of fuzzy stats. There's a self-selection bias for people who are home schooled versus the population at large. Obviously home schooled parents are highly interested in their kid's education. And that's a huge factor in the success of a kid.

 
jon_mx said:
Homeschooled Students Well-Prepared For College, Study Finds


06/01/2012 11:35 am ET


By Kelsey Sheehy
Between deciphering college financial aid awards and settling into a shoe-box sized dorm room with a perfect stranger or two, making the move from high school to college can be a shock to the system for even the most put-together teenager.
The transition, many may assume, would be even more jarring for students coming from a home-schooled environment.
“Transitioning from home school to college can be a daunting experience, especially with the lack of socialization that is associated with home schooling,” says Los Angeles-based therapist Karen Hylen, who counsels people she says have not made the transition successfully.
But parents and students from the home-schooling community say the nontraditional method yields teens that are more independent and therefore better prepared for college life.
[Learn how to show up at college primed for success.]
More than 2 million U.S. students in grades K-12 were home-schooled in 2010, accounting for nearly four percent of all school-aged children, according to the National Home Education Research Institute. Studies suggest that those who go on to college will outperform their peers.
Students coming from a home school graduated college at a higher rate than their peers­ — 66.7 percent compared to 57.5 percent — and earned higher grade point averages along the way, according to a study that compared students at one doctoral university from 2004-2009.
They’re also better socialized than most high school students, says Joe Kelly, an author and parenting expert who home-schooled his twin daughters.
Click to expand...
There is a selection effect when you compare home-schoolers who go to college to others who attend college. More motivated parents and students. Maybe higher SES. A parent knowledgeable enough to provide some of the teaching. 

 
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