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Dear GOP Voters (1 Viewer)

I didn't say he was doing a great job.  I said I didn't see anything so disastrous that he would AUTOMATICALLY lose.  People really care about their pocketbook, so inflation is a big deal.  People aren't going to vote somebody out based on Afghanistan or illegal immigration.  
With immigration as a topic, I’d start paying closer attention to that Hispanic vote. You don’t think that’s a hot button topic for them? This will be one of the biggest strategic failures for the Dems. And Afghanistan is horribly bad, I stand by the biggest military failure of the 21st century unless someone can provide a compelling argument against.

This administration is wildly incompetent and the approval ratings speak to it.

To my original point, all the GOP has to do is send someone out not named Trump. 

 
I agree that if Republicans lose Florida, they lose the election. 
But as to whether it’s “solidly red”- I’m not convinced. Obama won it in 2008 and 2012, Trump won in 2016 and 2020. Each time it was close; each time it came down to Latino turnout in Miami, which at the moment is trending Republican. But I’m not convinced yet that this is a permanent thing. 
Tim, Florida is red.

 
With immigration as a topic, I’d start paying closer attention to that Hispanic vote. You don’t think that’s a hot button topic for them? This will be one of the biggest strategic failures for the Dems. And Afghanistan is horribly bad, I stand by the biggest military failure of the 21st century unless someone can provide a compelling argument against.

This administration is wildly incompetent and the approval ratings speak to it.

To my original point, all the GOP has to do is send someone out not named Trump. 
Afghanistan was bad because no one thought the Taliban would take back the country in a week.  As chaotic as it was, the actual damage done to the US and the world does not come close to the BS Iraq invasion.  These aren't even on the same playing field.

 
Afghanistan was bad because no one thought the Taliban would take back the country in a week.  As chaotic as it was, the actual damage done to the US and the world does not come close to the BS Iraq invasion.  These aren't even on the same playing field.
We built the Taliban a top notch high tech army and China:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-pursues-afghanistans-mineral-wealth-after-u-s-exit-11647172801
 

It’s a ####### disaster. I understand your argument, and it’s not a bad one, I’m just on the other side.

 
As of right now the GOP will win in 2024 no matter who the nominee is.  The dry run to overthrow the election has been a complete success.  Collusion with violent militias to attack the Capitol, fake electors, screams of fraud without evidence, have netted - zero- members of congress with repercussion.  The blue print is just being refined at this point and any point to stop it is shouted down with whataboutism. 
What's so funny about my post @supermike80?  The first sentence is my opinion but it's supported by facts. 

 
I agree that if Republicans lose Florida, they lose the election. 
But as to whether it’s “solidly red”- I’m not convinced. Obama won it in 2008 and 2012, Trump won in 2016 and 2020. Each time it was close; each time it came down to Latino turnout in Miami, which at the moment is trending Republican. But I’m not convinced yet that this is a permanent thing. 
Dems have won Florida 5 times since 1952 so yea probably fixin to turn blue.

 
If you were asked to list the five swing states most likely to decide the next election, Florida should probably be on your list.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/swing-states-2020-election/
Seems like polling hasn't caught up to the massive swing in support to the GOP sense Trump that happened in Florida.  Being decidedly "red" at the rep level will be handled by the new maps the state legislator is allowing the Governor to draw on his own.

ETA:  This doesn't mean it won't change in the future, but the Dems need to really understand the Latinos and Hispanics are NOT a monolith and start treating them accordingly otherwise they are going to lose things that have been decided blue for several decades and consistently lose Presidential elections.

 
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I think so yes because Democrats are that bad - vote for the party you like, against the party you hate, even if the candidate isn't the one you liked
Go red team!  No, blue team is better!  Red team baby!!!

Damn the candidates, vote for the (R) or (D) all the way, baby!

Paaaartisaaanssss!

 
..but the Dems need to really understand the Latinos and Hispanics are NOT a monolith and start treating them accordingly otherwise they are going to lose things that have been decided blue for several decades and consistently lose Presidential elections.


Latinos and Hispanic voters are not a monolith, but a juggernaut sized number fall under the "working class minority voter" spectrum.

And the current Democratic Party has lost that. Maybe up to actual long term legacy votes.

"Top/Down" messaging doesn't resonate with the working class. It never has and it never will. It's an arrogant uptake by the Limosuine Liberal contingent. You can't deny people opportunity and threaten their basics and talk down to them about their lack of purity. "This is what you want, but I'm not going to listen. Here is what you should want so you can be more like me"

It's like some kind of bizarre political strategy concocted by the worst parts of Gwyneth Paltrow.

I'm going to be fair here. Most of the elected officials down the ticket in the Democratic Party are not radical zealots. But the Joint Finance Agreement structure hammered on them by Obama/Clinton/DNC HQ and now Biden makes it impossible for any of them to survive without toeing a Party line that they all know will cost them their elections. The only saving grace for some of these people about to get the boot, is if they keep their mouths shut, they can keep their Leadership PAC money and their zombie campaign money and get some kind of kickback from the overall machine.

Elizabeth Warren, AOC and Ilhan Omar are test cases for Democrats who can operate financially outside the Party apparatus. But "financial independence" from the Party usually carries heavy trade offs that are punitive against any kind of true populist type platform that could win a national audience.

Obama wanted a feudal system. Well he got it. Now the dregs shown is the bad that was always implied after he was done with his snatch and grab routine. Barack Obama absolutely and positively destroyed the Democratic Party long term. I'm not sure I've ever seen one person inflict so much damage in such a short amount of time in politics. (Yes, even more than Trump)  The Hispanic / Latino voter loss is just a lagging indicator of the true cost of the Obama run.

 
moleculo said:
Go red team!  No, blue team is better!  Red team baby!!!

Damn the candidates, vote for the (R) or (D) all the way, baby!

Paaaartisaaanssss!


I think we have a lot of that - me ?  I cannot imagine voting Democrat ever again

 
I guarantee you that most Republicans know perfectly well that he is a liability and that, all things being equal, anyone else would have a better chance.  They would absolutely prefer DJT not run again.


This is how most of my Republican friends seem to feel.

But I thought the sentiment was Republicans can't wait for Trump to regain the throne in 2024 and he's their chosen face of the party even today?

 
This is how most of my Republican friends seem to feel.

But I thought the sentiment was Republicans can't wait for Trump to regain the throne in 2024 and he's their chosen face of the party even today?
Republican politicians are different than Republican voters. How many GOP hopefuls want Trump to endorse them? 

 
This is how most of my Republican friends seem to feel.

But I thought the sentiment was Republicans can't wait for Trump to regain the throne in 2024 and he's their chosen face of the party even today?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-primary-r/
Every poll among Republicans that has Donald Trump in it has him leading by a huge margin. At least 20 points over the nearest alternative, which is DeSantis. 
 

I want to believe you’re right. And maybe he won’t run anyhow: But if he does, he appears to be the strong favorite. 

 
Piers Morgan interview should be interesting.

If he truly has a desire of being POTUS again, he needs to drop the election was stolen nonsense. He’ll make all the Biden (or Harris or whatever dunce they throw into the ring) hating swing voters stay at home. I fear his ego is too large to comprehend this. If he needs to spin a narrative, say it was bought and influenced by big tech.

It’s shocking to me that there are anywhere from 20-40mm people in this country that truly believe the election was outright fraudulent. Yet unsurprisingly, the most powerful law man in the country found nothing (and he would’ve loved to prosecute it too). 

 
Piers Morgan interview should be interesting.

If he truly has a desire of being POTUS again, he needs to drop the election was stolen nonsense. He’ll make all the Biden (or Harris or whatever dunce they throw into the ring) hating swing voters stay at home. I fear his ego is too large to comprehend this. If he needs to spin a narrative, say it was bought and influenced by big tech.

It’s shocking to me that there are anywhere from 20-40mm people in this country that truly believe the election was outright fraudulent. Yet unsurprisingly, the most powerful law man in the country found nothing (and he would’ve loved to prosecute it too). 
Not gonna happen:

https://www.businessinsider.com/piers-morgan-trump-pathological-belief-2020-election-stolen-2022-4

Morgan also described what happened after he told Trump that he does not believe the 2020 election was rigged.

"At that point, the fuse kind of went with him," Morgan said. "He started insulting me, called me a fool seven times. I was very respectful back, I accepted if he wanted to call me that. That's fine. But he wasn't going to change my mind."

"He couldn't accept that. He has a kind of blind, pathological belief that it was taken from him."

 
Not gonna happen:

https://www.businessinsider.com/piers-morgan-trump-pathological-belief-2020-election-stolen-2022-4

Morgan also described what happened after he told Trump that he does not believe the 2020 election was rigged.

"At that point, the fuse kind of went with him," Morgan said. "He started insulting me, called me a fool seven times. I was very respectful back, I accepted if he wanted to call me that. That's fine. But he wasn't going to change my mind."

"He couldn't accept that. He has a kind of blind, pathological belief that it was taken from him."
Trump voters just don’t understand this narrative will cost us another 4 years of the current garbage.

 
Trump voters just don’t understand this narrative will cost us another 4 years of the current garbage.
The GOP had the chance to neuter Trump during the second impeachment. There may have been blowback from the base but they would have had 4 years to recover. Instead they made him a martyr. Half measures and such.

 
Imagine Trump and DeSantis going neck and neck throughout the primary. Trump will do his typical thing with attacking, lying and claiming rigged primary elections when he loses. 
 

Would diehard Trump supporters still come out to vote for DeSantis if Trump loses?
I think so.  

Because the other option is Biden or Harris.   

If you think Trump's cult-like followers are alt-right, then I can't follow the argument they're just going to sit at home and let Dems have another election.  

 
I did - let me edit to clarify

a black VP for DeSantis would get a lot of black votes. Doesn't matter if the guy is qualified, just eliminate all women and all whites and go with the person who can get you the votes you need

now, if that's not politically correct, then we need to call Biden out for saying it/doing it too ......... agreed? 
I don't think you understand black people very well. 

 
I did - let me edit to clarify

a black VP for DeSantis would get a lot of black votes. Doesn't matter if the guy is qualified, just eliminate all women and all whites and go with the person who can get you the votes you need

now, if that's not politically correct, then we need to call Biden out for saying it/doing it too ......... agreed? 
This post makes me sad for so many reasons. 

 
I was a life long NPA. That mostly voted republican.

Voted 3rd party in 2016 Voted Trump in 2020  

I just switched to the GOP so I can vote against Trump in the 2024 primary. 

#doingmypart
Open primaries here.  I voted Bernie in the primaries in 2016...to vote against Hillary.   2020...he had already pulled out, but voted Buttigieg in the primary (was going to be he or Yang in my vote there for sure).  Id probably do similar to you here...depending on who the Dem candidates are.  Any chance I have to vote against Trump, I will take it.

 
I think so.  

Because the other option is Biden or Harris.   

If you think Trump's cult-like followers are alt-right, then I can't follow the argument they're just going to sit at home and let Dems have another election.  
I don't think his followers you describe are what would give him a chance.  He needs the rest to break his way as well...and while two years out people can say they wouldn't vote for him...I would bet a large amount still would rather than vote for a democrat.  Not sure how many can be counted on to stay home and not vote.

 
Tim, Florida is red.


Florida is "light red" with voter suppression making it a slightly darker shade of red.  Desantis won his last election by .8% and that was before the "felons being reinstated to be able to vote".  The socialism angle is what got the cubans and venezuelans in Florida to break towards the right this last election, and Desantis has done a decent job keeping florida open during the pandemic that he is favored to win BUT: 1) Don't count out Nikki Fried as a dem that could beat him and 2) Val Dennings is a serious candidate to Rubio (who isn't really popular on either side of the political fence). Finally, a lot of "anti-socialists" see desantis going after Disney as "totalitarian" so who knows. I will not be surprised if Florida stays red but Rubio and Desantis are not voter turnout machines.

Voter turnout in the midterms because we hate Desantis and Rubio likely will break towards Blue here, and the Desantis/Trump Rivalry could come back to bite him in the butt (he would likely love Ron to lose the Florida election so he can call him a loser on stage in the primaries)

 
Florida is "light red" with voter suppression making it a slightly darker shade of red.  Desantis won his last election by .8% and that was before the "felons being reinstated to be able to vote".  The socialism angle is what got the cubans and venezuelans in Florida to break towards the right this last election, and Desantis has done a decent job keeping florida open during the pandemic that he is favored to win BUT: 1) Don't count out Nikki Fried as a dem that could beat him and 2) Val Dennings is a serious candidate to Rubio (who isn't really popular on either side of the political fence). Finally, a lot of "anti-socialists" see desantis going after Disney as "totalitarian" so who knows. I will not be surprised if Florida stays red but Rubio and Desantis are not voter turnout machines.

Voter turnout in the midterms because we hate Desantis and Rubio likely will break towards Blue here, and the Desantis/Trump Rivalry could come back to bite him in the butt (he would likely love Ron to lose the Florida election so he can call him a loser on stage in the primaries)
No chance.

Desantis is at 89% chance and Rubio 92% currently on the betting markets

 
I don't think his followers you describe are what would give him a chance.  He needs the rest to break his way as well...and while two years out people can say they wouldn't vote for him...I would bet a large amount still would rather than vote for a democrat.  Not sure how many can be counted on to stay home and not vote.
I think we're saying the same thing.  

I think even the most hardcore Trump supporters want a Republican to win.  They may prefer Trump.  They may be mad it's Desantis.  But they'll show up for anyone that runs against Biden/Harris.  

 
I don't think his followers you describe are what would give him a chance.  He needs the rest to break his way as well...and while two years out people can say they wouldn't vote for him...I would bet a large amount still would rather than vote for a democrat.  Not sure how many can be counted on to stay home and not vote.
Agree, i dont think he can get enough of the undecided middle.

 
Just Call Trump a Loser
His record is clear. Some nervy Republican challenger should say so.
By Mark Leibovich
April 27, 2022

Let’s assume Donald Trump runs again for president in 2024. Yes, I know, caveats, caveats. Republicans say it’s too early to discuss ’24. A lot can change between now and then. Maybe Trump won’t actually run. Maybe he’s just teasing the possibility to milk the attention. Apparently, he likes attention.

But if Trump does decide to inflict himself on another race, he will enter as the clear Republican favorite, enjoying a presumption of invincibility inside the GOP. This has engendered a belief that anyone who challenges Trump must tread lightly, or end up like the roadkill that his primary opponents became in 2016.

That notion is outdated.

Trump’s bizarre and enduring hold over his party has made it verboten for many Republicans to even utter publicly the unpleasant fact of his defeat—something they will readily acknowledge in private. I caught up recently with several Trump-opposing Republican strategists and former associates of the president who argued this restraint should end. The best way for a Republican to depose Trump in 2024, they said, will be to call Trump a loser, as early and as brutally as possible—and keep pointing out the absurdity of treating a one-term, twice-impeached, 75-year-old former president like a kingmaker and heir apparent. In other words, don’t worry about hurting Special Boy’s feelings.

“Why on earth would we hitch our wagons again to a crybaby sore loser who lost the popular vote twice, lost the House, lost the Senate, and lost the White House, and so on?” said Barbara Comstock, a longtime political consultant and former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. “For Republicans, whether they embrace the Big Lie or not, Trump is vulnerable to having the stench of disaster on him.”

Trump’s wasn’t an ordinary election defeat, either. Some nervy Republican challenger needs to remind everyone how rare it is for an incumbent president to lose reelection, and also that Trump was perhaps the most graceless loser and insufferable whiner in presidential history—the first outgoing commander in chief in 152 years to skip his successor’s swearing-in. And that he dragged a lot of Republicans down with him. As Comstock hinted, Trump was the first president since Herbert Hoover to preside over his party’s loss of the House, Senate, and White House in a single term. Said nervy Republican challenger could even (just for fun) remind the former president that he once called the person he lost to “the worst presidential candidate in the history of presidential politics.”

“So what does that make you, sir? At least Jimmy Carter lost to, you know, Ronald Reagan.”

This is a devastating point of attack against Trump. He knows it, too, which is why he has taken such pains to loser-proof himself and scrub his MAGA universe of any doubt that he was in fact reelected “in a landslide.” Don’t let him get away with that, the cabinet of critics urged. Abandon all deference, and don’t forget to troll the troller.

“It is erroneous to think there’s a benefit to being the adult in the room against Donald Trump,” said Michael Cohen, the former president’s fixer turned antagonist, who clearly knows him and all of his trigger points.

“There’s a way of going after Trump that I would call intelligent mockery,” continued Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to federal charges for lying to Congress on behalf of his former client and paying hush money to Trump’s porn-actor paramour, Stormy Daniels. “If you can make your criticism personal to him, he will become flustered. And when he gets flustered, his level of stupidity rises and then morphs into complete idiocy.”

If it was true in 2016 that other Republicans couldn’t touch Trump, it’s not necessarily so now, given the win-loss record he has since accumulated.

“The problem with 2016 is that people waited ’til they were at their politically weakest point before they started pounding Trump,” said Tim Miller, a former top campaign aide to Jeb Bush who now writes for The Bulwark. “Could that have worked for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz if they started in September? I don’t know, but it helps not to be on your deathbed.”

Miller and others point out that Trump’s defeats in office go well beyond the loss of just his job. Despite Trump’s repeated claims of “promises made, promises kept,” most of his big-ticket promises from 2016 never came to fruition.

The attack riff practically writes itself: “Remember how Trump kept saying how easy it would be to balance the federal budget (‘very quickly’), repeal Obamacare and replace it (‘with something terrific’), and sign a massive infrastructure bill? None of those things actually happened, except the infrastructure bill—which was signed by Joe Biden.”

Trump’s “big, beautiful wall” along the southern border? Only about 80 miles of new barrier were built where no structure was in place previously. Trump mostly presided over repairs and enhancements to the existing wall. And Mexico paid for none of it.

Another inconvenient data point for Trump is that he left office with a 34 percent approval rating, the worst of his presidency. The average throughout his term—41 percent—was four points lower than that of any other president in Gallup’s history of polling. (President Biden’s approval numbers haven’t exactly been gangbusters either—stuck in the low 40s since the fall.) “Voters can be practical,” Miller said. “They want to win, and they need to be reminded that you can’t win with a big fat loser.”

We’re already seeing contours of some early strategies for running against Trump. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is mostly ignoring the former president while establishing his own cachet of lib-owning, base-arousing, culture-splitting bona fides. Former Vice President Mike Pence is pursuing a loyal-deputy and next-man-up course, despite his refusal to go along with Trump’s January 6 caper, which rendered him dead to his old boss and sentenced to hanging by Trump’s “Stop the steal” brigades.

Both of these are Trump-adjacent approaches predicated on keeping the faith with “the base” while asserting that, in many ways, Trump was still a great president. Essentially, DeSantis and Pence are positioning themselves as more competent and disciplined versions of Trump, without the baggage.

I doubt that this Trump-but-different tactic would work, especially with Trump himself in the race. Plus, why waste so much good material? A “He’s a loser” strategy would be way more direct and satisfying, and would have the added benefit of driving Trump nuts.

Who could make this work? Perhaps a popular Republican governor such as Maryland’s Larry Hogan or New Hampshire’s Chris Sununu, neither of whom has much use for Trump. “You know, he’s probably going to be the next president,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month in a comedic speech at Washington’s annual Gridiron Club dinner. “Nah, I’m just kidding; he’s ####### crazy.”

The line killed, according to Comstock, who was at the dinner. It underscored how effective humor—or ridicule—can be in the airing of unspoken and commonly understood truths. “This will be an important weapon for some Republicans to use against Trump at some point,” Comstock told me.

Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, also could serve as a useful nuisance against Trump. Christie used to brag in Trenton that he knew how to deal with bullies: “You can either sidle up to them, or you can punch them in the face. I like to punch them in the face.”

Christie dropped out of the 2016 presidential race after New Hampshire and promptly sidled up to Trump, where he remained for the better part of four years before reaching his end with Trump late in his term. The final indignity occurred when Christie attended the September 2020 super-spreader reception at the White House for the Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, after which the president, the first lady, and several guests, including Christie, tested positive for COVID-19. Trump was nice enough to call and check in on Christie when he was laid up in a New Jersey ICU. “Are you going to say you got this from me?” Trump asked, according to Christie. “It was one of the few laughs I had in the hospital,” Christie told me later of Trump’s gesture of deep concern. “I got off the phone, and I just shook my head. Like, this guy will never change.”

Christie is probably doomed to being dismissed as both a Trump traitor (by MAGA world) and a Trump doormat (by anti-Trumpers), but he could still make for an effective pugilistic foil. He has been a vocal proponent of Republicans moving on from 2020—which Trump of course has taken note of, and not in a nice way. The former president put out a statement saying that no one wanted to hear from a guy like Christie, “who left New Jersey with a less than 9 percent approval rating.”

In fact, Christie’s approval numbers in New Jersey bottomed out at about 13 percent, but that’s beside the point. The main point was how Christie came back at Trump. “When I ran for reelection in 2013, I got 60 percent of the vote,” Christie told Axios on HBO. “When he ran for reelection, he lost to Joe Biden.”

That could bear repeating.

 
That's pretty funny to think about - and it is indeed likely to discombobulate thin-skinned Don - but you'd need more than one primary opponent or prominent Republican to join the pile on to make it effective.

There's also the possibility that down in the mud is where Trump feels most comfortable.

 
“It is erroneous to think there’s a benefit to being the adult in the room against Donald Trump,” said Michael Cohen, the former president’s fixer turned antagonist, who clearly knows him and all of his trigger points.

“There’s a way of going after Trump that I would call intelligent mockery,” continued Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to federal charges for lying to Congress on behalf of his former client and paying hush money to Trump’s porn-actor paramour, Stormy Daniels. “If you can make your criticism personal to him, he will become flustered. And when he gets flustered, his level of stupidity rises and then morphs into complete idiocy.”

--------

Miller and others point out that Trump’s defeats in office go well beyond the loss of just his job. Despite Trump’s repeated claims of “promises made, promises kept,” most of his big-ticket promises from 2016 never came to fruition.

The attack riff practically writes itself: “Remember how Trump kept saying how easy it would be to balance the federal budget (‘very quickly’), repeal Obamacare and replace it (‘with something terrific’), and sign a massive infrastructure bill? None of those things actually happened, except the infrastructure bill—which was signed by Joe Biden.”

Trump’s “big, beautiful wall” along the southern border? Only about 80 miles of new barrier were built where no structure was in place previously. Trump mostly presided over repairs and enhancements to the existing wall. And Mexico paid for none of it.
It should go without saying these would be great attack points for Dems should Trump end up with the GOP nomination. But I have little faith in the Dems to actually make it their strategy.

 
It is amazing how much a Loser he was and yet still, his followers. :shrug:

But I'll believe it when I see a Republican contender open up on Trump.  THAT would be entertaining.  

 
It is amazing how much a Loser he was and yet still, his followers. :shrug:

But I'll believe it when I see a Republican contender open up on Trump.  THAT would be entertaining.  
Because its all about appearance IMO.

Reading about other rich people saying Trump tries to look like he is rich, over the top things as the “idea” of looking like that was more important than other things.

You see it in his attitude and things other claim are him being an alpha.  Its that bully mentality that is supposed to appear strong, the pull towards him handshake and so on.   IMO, he is all about making himself look big and strong and smart.  The details are inconsequential to it…as ling as it looks that way or enough people see him that way…that is what he wants.

 
It should go without saying these would be great attack points for Dems should Trump end up with the GOP nomination. But I have little faith in the Dems to actually make it their strategy.
Yeah, they need to do this if for no reason to pound into independents just how much a "L" he and his followers/ sycophants are ---

 
"Sir, can you explain your plan to get prescription drug prices down?"

 "We have the best plan. Strong men, some with tears in their eyes, have told me how completely brilliant our plan is and that it's far better than the one from Boring Larry Hogan."

 
Just Call Trump a Loser
His record is clear. Some nervy Republican challenger should say so.
By Mark Leibovich
April 27, 2022

Let’s assume Donald Trump runs again for president in 2024. Yes, I know, caveats, caveats. Republicans say it’s too early to discuss ’24. A lot can change between now and then. Maybe Trump won’t actually run. Maybe he’s just teasing the possibility to milk the attention. Apparently, he likes attention.

But if Trump does decide to inflict himself on another race, he will enter as the clear Republican favorite, enjoying a presumption of invincibility inside the GOP. This has engendered a belief that anyone who challenges Trump must tread lightly, or end up like the roadkill that his primary opponents became in 2016.

That notion is outdated.

Trump’s bizarre and enduring hold over his party has made it verboten for many Republicans to even utter publicly the unpleasant fact of his defeat—something they will readily acknowledge in private. I caught up recently with several Trump-opposing Republican strategists and former associates of the president who argued this restraint should end. The best way for a Republican to depose Trump in 2024, they said, will be to call Trump a loser, as early and as brutally as possible—and keep pointing out the absurdity of treating a one-term, twice-impeached, 75-year-old former president like a kingmaker and heir apparent. In other words, don’t worry about hurting Special Boy’s feelings.

“Why on earth would we hitch our wagons again to a crybaby sore loser who lost the popular vote twice, lost the House, lost the Senate, and lost the White House, and so on?” said Barbara Comstock, a longtime political consultant and former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. “For Republicans, whether they embrace the Big Lie or not, Trump is vulnerable to having the stench of disaster on him.”

Trump’s wasn’t an ordinary election defeat, either. Some nervy Republican challenger needs to remind everyone how rare it is for an incumbent president to lose reelection, and also that Trump was perhaps the most graceless loser and insufferable whiner in presidential history—the first outgoing commander in chief in 152 years to skip his successor’s swearing-in. And that he dragged a lot of Republicans down with him. As Comstock hinted, Trump was the first president since Herbert Hoover to preside over his party’s loss of the House, Senate, and White House in a single term. Said nervy Republican challenger could even (just for fun) remind the former president that he once called the person he lost to “the worst presidential candidate in the history of presidential politics.”

“So what does that make you, sir? At least Jimmy Carter lost to, you know, Ronald Reagan.”

This is a devastating point of attack against Trump. He knows it, too, which is why he has taken such pains to loser-proof himself and scrub his MAGA universe of any doubt that he was in fact reelected “in a landslide.” Don’t let him get away with that, the cabinet of critics urged. Abandon all deference, and don’t forget to troll the troller.

“It is erroneous to think there’s a benefit to being the adult in the room against Donald Trump,” said Michael Cohen, the former president’s fixer turned antagonist, who clearly knows him and all of his trigger points.

“There’s a way of going after Trump that I would call intelligent mockery,” continued Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to federal charges for lying to Congress on behalf of his former client and paying hush money to Trump’s porn-actor paramour, Stormy Daniels. “If you can make your criticism personal to him, he will become flustered. And when he gets flustered, his level of stupidity rises and then morphs into complete idiocy.”

If it was true in 2016 that other Republicans couldn’t touch Trump, it’s not necessarily so now, given the win-loss record he has since accumulated.

“The problem with 2016 is that people waited ’til they were at their politically weakest point before they started pounding Trump,” said Tim Miller, a former top campaign aide to Jeb Bush who now writes for The Bulwark. “Could that have worked for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz if they started in September? I don’t know, but it helps not to be on your deathbed.”

Miller and others point out that Trump’s defeats in office go well beyond the loss of just his job. Despite Trump’s repeated claims of “promises made, promises kept,” most of his big-ticket promises from 2016 never came to fruition.

The attack riff practically writes itself: “Remember how Trump kept saying how easy it would be to balance the federal budget (‘very quickly’), repeal Obamacare and replace it (‘with something terrific’), and sign a massive infrastructure bill? None of those things actually happened, except the infrastructure bill—which was signed by Joe Biden.”

Trump’s “big, beautiful wall” along the southern border? Only about 80 miles of new barrier were built where no structure was in place previously. Trump mostly presided over repairs and enhancements to the existing wall. And Mexico paid for none of it.

Another inconvenient data point for Trump is that he left office with a 34 percent approval rating, the worst of his presidency. The average throughout his term—41 percent—was four points lower than that of any other president in Gallup’s history of polling. (President Biden’s approval numbers haven’t exactly been gangbusters either—stuck in the low 40s since the fall.) “Voters can be practical,” Miller said. “They want to win, and they need to be reminded that you can’t win with a big fat loser.”

We’re already seeing contours of some early strategies for running against Trump. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is mostly ignoring the former president while establishing his own cachet of lib-owning, base-arousing, culture-splitting bona fides. Former Vice President Mike Pence is pursuing a loyal-deputy and next-man-up course, despite his refusal to go along with Trump’s January 6 caper, which rendered him dead to his old boss and sentenced to hanging by Trump’s “Stop the steal” brigades.

Both of these are Trump-adjacent approaches predicated on keeping the faith with “the base” while asserting that, in many ways, Trump was still a great president. Essentially, DeSantis and Pence are positioning themselves as more competent and disciplined versions of Trump, without the baggage.

I doubt that this Trump-but-different tactic would work, especially with Trump himself in the race. Plus, why waste so much good material? A “He’s a loser” strategy would be way more direct and satisfying, and would have the added benefit of driving Trump nuts.

Who could make this work? Perhaps a popular Republican governor such as Maryland’s Larry Hogan or New Hampshire’s Chris Sununu, neither of whom has much use for Trump. “You know, he’s probably going to be the next president,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month in a comedic speech at Washington’s annual Gridiron Club dinner. “Nah, I’m just kidding; he’s ####### crazy.”

The line killed, according to Comstock, who was at the dinner. It underscored how effective humor—or ridicule—can be in the airing of unspoken and commonly understood truths. “This will be an important weapon for some Republicans to use against Trump at some point,” Comstock told me.

Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, also could serve as a useful nuisance against Trump. Christie used to brag in Trenton that he knew how to deal with bullies: “You can either sidle up to them, or you can punch them in the face. I like to punch them in the face.”

Christie dropped out of the 2016 presidential race after New Hampshire and promptly sidled up to Trump, where he remained for the better part of four years before reaching his end with Trump late in his term. The final indignity occurred when Christie attended the September 2020 super-spreader reception at the White House for the Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, after which the president, the first lady, and several guests, including Christie, tested positive for COVID-19. Trump was nice enough to call and check in on Christie when he was laid up in a New Jersey ICU. “Are you going to say you got this from me?” Trump asked, according to Christie. “It was one of the few laughs I had in the hospital,” Christie told me later of Trump’s gesture of deep concern. “I got off the phone, and I just shook my head. Like, this guy will never change.”

Christie is probably doomed to being dismissed as both a Trump traitor (by MAGA world) and a Trump doormat (by anti-Trumpers), but he could still make for an effective pugilistic foil. He has been a vocal proponent of Republicans moving on from 2020—which Trump of course has taken note of, and not in a nice way. The former president put out a statement saying that no one wanted to hear from a guy like Christie, “who left New Jersey with a less than 9 percent approval rating.”

In fact, Christie’s approval numbers in New Jersey bottomed out at about 13 percent, but that’s beside the point. The main point was how Christie came back at Trump. “When I ran for reelection in 2013, I got 60 percent of the vote,” Christie told Axios on HBO. “When he ran for reelection, he lost to Joe Biden.”

That could bear repeating.
Came here to post this exact article. It's an interesting thought experiment. I wonder if, even if a '24 GOP candidate could pull this off, they might suffer from a "Wilford Brimley" problem. That's a phrase I just invented inspired by Brimley's appearance in "The Firm" where he was cast against type as the villain and ends up getting beaten to death by Tom Cruise. As one of my friends said after the movie, "I was yelling at the screen, 'Stop beating up the Quaker Oats guy!'"

Obviously, Trump doesn't have the cuddly image that Brimley did, but I do think there's genuine affection for him among a certain segment of the GOP base, and if an opponent just completely destroyed him, that might blow back against the perpetrator of those attacks.

Of course, that was the mistake the GOP candidates made in '16; they were all waiting for someone else to take on Trump, so that they could swoop in afterward and unite the party over the bodies of both Trump and his attacker. Only it never happened, and as the article points out, by the time they finally went after him, they were losing and it looked desperate

On the other hand, this Underpants Gnome-style strategy being pursued by the likes of Hawley, Cruz and Pence (1. Kiss up to Trump 2. ???? 3. Win GOP nomination!) would seem to have zero chance of success, so might as well try something else and maybe keep your dignity while you're at it

 
You know, DeSantis or another of several strong candidates could win the presidency and then Trump could be appointed as speaker of the house.  

 
Just Call Trump a Loser
His record is clear. Some nervy Republican challenger should say so.
By Mark Leibovich
April 27, 2022

Let’s assume Donald Trump runs again for president in 2024. Yes, I know, caveats, caveats. Republicans say it’s too early to discuss ’24. A lot can change between now and then. Maybe Trump won’t actually run. Maybe he’s just teasing the possibility to milk the attention. Apparently, he likes attention.

But if Trump does decide to inflict himself on another race, he will enter as the clear Republican favorite, enjoying a presumption of invincibility inside the GOP. This has engendered a belief that anyone who challenges Trump must tread lightly, or end up like the roadkill that his primary opponents became in 2016.

That notion is outdated.

Trump’s bizarre and enduring hold over his party has made it verboten for many Republicans to even utter publicly the unpleasant fact of his defeat—something they will readily acknowledge in private. I caught up recently with several Trump-opposing Republican strategists and former associates of the president who argued this restraint should end. The best way for a Republican to depose Trump in 2024, they said, will be to call Trump a loser, as early and as brutally as possible—and keep pointing out the absurdity of treating a one-term, twice-impeached, 75-year-old former president like a kingmaker and heir apparent. In other words, don’t worry about hurting Special Boy’s feelings.

“Why on earth would we hitch our wagons again to a crybaby sore loser who lost the popular vote twice, lost the House, lost the Senate, and lost the White House, and so on?” said Barbara Comstock, a longtime political consultant and former Republican congresswoman from Virginia. “For Republicans, whether they embrace the Big Lie or not, Trump is vulnerable to having the stench of disaster on him.”

Trump’s wasn’t an ordinary election defeat, either. Some nervy Republican challenger needs to remind everyone how rare it is for an incumbent president to lose reelection, and also that Trump was perhaps the most graceless loser and insufferable whiner in presidential history—the first outgoing commander in chief in 152 years to skip his successor’s swearing-in. And that he dragged a lot of Republicans down with him. As Comstock hinted, Trump was the first president since Herbert Hoover to preside over his party’s loss of the House, Senate, and White House in a single term. Said nervy Republican challenger could even (just for fun) remind the former president that he once called the person he lost to “the worst presidential candidate in the history of presidential politics.”

“So what does that make you, sir? At least Jimmy Carter lost to, you know, Ronald Reagan.”

This is a devastating point of attack against Trump. He knows it, too, which is why he has taken such pains to loser-proof himself and scrub his MAGA universe of any doubt that he was in fact reelected “in a landslide.” Don’t let him get away with that, the cabinet of critics urged. Abandon all deference, and don’t forget to troll the troller.

“It is erroneous to think there’s a benefit to being the adult in the room against Donald Trump,” said Michael Cohen, the former president’s fixer turned antagonist, who clearly knows him and all of his trigger points.

“There’s a way of going after Trump that I would call intelligent mockery,” continued Cohen, who pleaded guilty in 2018 to federal charges for lying to Congress on behalf of his former client and paying hush money to Trump’s porn-actor paramour, Stormy Daniels. “If you can make your criticism personal to him, he will become flustered. And when he gets flustered, his level of stupidity rises and then morphs into complete idiocy.”

If it was true in 2016 that other Republicans couldn’t touch Trump, it’s not necessarily so now, given the win-loss record he has since accumulated.

“The problem with 2016 is that people waited ’til they were at their politically weakest point before they started pounding Trump,” said Tim Miller, a former top campaign aide to Jeb Bush who now writes for The Bulwark. “Could that have worked for Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz if they started in September? I don’t know, but it helps not to be on your deathbed.”

Miller and others point out that Trump’s defeats in office go well beyond the loss of just his job. Despite Trump’s repeated claims of “promises made, promises kept,” most of his big-ticket promises from 2016 never came to fruition.

The attack riff practically writes itself: “Remember how Trump kept saying how easy it would be to balance the federal budget (‘very quickly’), repeal Obamacare and replace it (‘with something terrific’), and sign a massive infrastructure bill? None of those things actually happened, except the infrastructure bill—which was signed by Joe Biden.”

Trump’s “big, beautiful wall” along the southern border? Only about 80 miles of new barrier were built where no structure was in place previously. Trump mostly presided over repairs and enhancements to the existing wall. And Mexico paid for none of it.

Another inconvenient data point for Trump is that he left office with a 34 percent approval rating, the worst of his presidency. The average throughout his term—41 percent—was four points lower than that of any other president in Gallup’s history of polling. (President Biden’s approval numbers haven’t exactly been gangbusters either—stuck in the low 40s since the fall.) “Voters can be practical,” Miller said. “They want to win, and they need to be reminded that you can’t win with a big fat loser.”

We’re already seeing contours of some early strategies for running against Trump. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is mostly ignoring the former president while establishing his own cachet of lib-owning, base-arousing, culture-splitting bona fides. Former Vice President Mike Pence is pursuing a loyal-deputy and next-man-up course, despite his refusal to go along with Trump’s January 6 caper, which rendered him dead to his old boss and sentenced to hanging by Trump’s “Stop the steal” brigades.

Both of these are Trump-adjacent approaches predicated on keeping the faith with “the base” while asserting that, in many ways, Trump was still a great president. Essentially, DeSantis and Pence are positioning themselves as more competent and disciplined versions of Trump, without the baggage.

I doubt that this Trump-but-different tactic would work, especially with Trump himself in the race. Plus, why waste so much good material? A “He’s a loser” strategy would be way more direct and satisfying, and would have the added benefit of driving Trump nuts.

Who could make this work? Perhaps a popular Republican governor such as Maryland’s Larry Hogan or New Hampshire’s Chris Sununu, neither of whom has much use for Trump. “You know, he’s probably going to be the next president,” Sununu said of Trump earlier this month in a comedic speech at Washington’s annual Gridiron Club dinner. “Nah, I’m just kidding; he’s ####### crazy.”

The line killed, according to Comstock, who was at the dinner. It underscored how effective humor—or ridicule—can be in the airing of unspoken and commonly understood truths. “This will be an important weapon for some Republicans to use against Trump at some point,” Comstock told me.

Chris Christie, the former New Jersey governor, also could serve as a useful nuisance against Trump. Christie used to brag in Trenton that he knew how to deal with bullies: “You can either sidle up to them, or you can punch them in the face. I like to punch them in the face.”

Christie dropped out of the 2016 presidential race after New Hampshire and promptly sidled up to Trump, where he remained for the better part of four years before reaching his end with Trump late in his term. The final indignity occurred when Christie attended the September 2020 super-spreader reception at the White House for the Supreme Court nominee Amy Coney Barrett, after which the president, the first lady, and several guests, including Christie, tested positive for COVID-19. Trump was nice enough to call and check in on Christie when he was laid up in a New Jersey ICU. “Are you going to say you got this from me?” Trump asked, according to Christie. “It was one of the few laughs I had in the hospital,” Christie told me later of Trump’s gesture of deep concern. “I got off the phone, and I just shook my head. Like, this guy will never change.”

Christie is probably doomed to being dismissed as both a Trump traitor (by MAGA world) and a Trump doormat (by anti-Trumpers), but he could still make for an effective pugilistic foil. He has been a vocal proponent of Republicans moving on from 2020—which Trump of course has taken note of, and not in a nice way. The former president put out a statement saying that no one wanted to hear from a guy like Christie, “who left New Jersey with a less than 9 percent approval rating.”

In fact, Christie’s approval numbers in New Jersey bottomed out at about 13 percent, but that’s beside the point. The main point was how Christie came back at Trump. “When I ran for reelection in 2013, I got 60 percent of the vote,” Christie told Axios on HBO. “When he ran for reelection, he lost to Joe Biden.”

That could bear repeating.
Christie? You are dreaming mate.    

But I do enjoy people who don't understand trump explain who and how he can be beaten.

A NE republican  will not be the one who beats Trump.   Hopefully Trump will not challenge DeSantis.

 
quick-hands said:
Christie? You are dreaming mate.    

But I do enjoy people who don't understand trump explain who and how he can be beaten.

A NE republican  will not be the one who beats Trump.   Hopefully Trump will not challenge DeSantis.


That could be entertaining.  But I agree, 

 

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