Better QB, Brady or Peyton (1 Viewer)

[psychobillies]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Bradshaw had an array of Hall of Famers at the skill positions and a defense so great, they had their own nickname! Brady has had one Hall of Fame skill position player (Corey Dillon) and a very good to great defense, but nothing like what Bradshaw had. That is the difference, not to mention that Bradshaw's career TD/INT ratio of +2 is not quite as good as Brady's ratio of +67.

So now you want to use statistics and supporting cast on defense to determine who's better, yet you still take Brady? Why?

 

[pizzatyme]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

No...but let me say this.Brady does not lose that game, at home, versus the Steelers last year in the playoffs. History backs me up on that. Sorry, you can't excuse that one away for Manning.

What history? I didn't realize Brady was signed by the Colts.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Bradshaw had an array of Hall of Famers at the skill positions and a defense so great, they had their own nickname! Brady has had one Hall of Fame skill position player (Corey Dillon) and a very good to great defense, but nothing like what Bradshaw had. That is the difference, not to mention that Bradshaw's career TD/INT ratio of +2 is not quite as good as Brady's ratio of +67.

So now you want to use statistics and supporting cast on defense to determine who's better, yet you still take Brady? Why?

You missed the point. Reread this thread again.

 

[psychobillies]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

No...but let me say this.Brady does not lose that game, at home, versus the Steelers last year in the playoffs. History backs me up on that. Sorry, you can't excuse that one away for Manning.

Didn't the kicker have something to do with that? I mean if Brady's kicker choked like that, how many rings would Brady have?

 

[dagogrease]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Yes, and we also think Trent Dilfer is better than Manning. If you don't see the difference, well, I'm sorry for you.

If you don't think Bradshaw is a better comparison than Dilfer I don't know what to tell you. Like I said before, please explain the difference. Try not to use a clever little one liner to ignore the point.If Brady is better simply b/c he is a "winner", or b/c he has won the big one three times, than why would you not agree that Bradshaw is better than both?

I think Bradshaw was one of the greatest QBs of all time? Not sure what your point is here. Bradshaw during the mid to late 70's made the throws when it counted most. I am sorry that I can't say the same thing for Manning. Look at his playoff stats....

 

[psychobillies]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Bradshaw had an array of Hall of Famers at the skill positions and a defense so great, they had their own nickname! Brady has had one Hall of Fame skill position player (Corey Dillon) and a very good to great defense, but nothing like what Bradshaw had. That is the difference, not to mention that Bradshaw's career TD/INT ratio of +2 is not quite as good as Brady's ratio of +67.

So now you want to use statistics and supporting cast on defense to determine who's better, yet you still take Brady? Why?

You missed the point. Reread this thread again.

I don't think I did. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, but you use the same arguments to support Brady over Bradshaw that Manning supporters use to support Manning over Brady.

 

[dagogrease]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

No...but let me say this.Brady does not lose that game, at home, versus the Steelers last year in the playoffs. History backs me up on that. Sorry, you can't excuse that one away for Manning.

What history? I didn't realize Brady was signed by the Colts.

Were you around to see the last 5 years of football? In particular the 2004-2005 season? Brady goes into Heinz Field against a 15-1 #1 rated defense and puts up 40+ points. Sorry, the kicker and running game had nothing to do with that!Manning at home, in a dome, against a 6th seeded team in the playoffs with Harrison, Wayne, James, etc cannot put up more that 25????? I'll say it again...you put a 3-4, zone-blitzing defense in front of Manning and he struggles.That is what I mean by history backs me up on this

 

[djcolts]

Brady has had the better career so far. Peyton has had the better 2006 regular season so far.

 

[H.K.]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Bradshaw had an array of Hall of Famers at the skill positions and a defense so great, they had their own nickname! Brady has had one Hall of Fame skill position player (Corey Dillon) and a very good to great defense, but nothing like what Bradshaw had. That is the difference, not to mention that Bradshaw's career TD/INT ratio of +2 is not quite as good as Brady's ratio of +67.

So now you want to use statistics and supporting cast on defense to determine who's better, yet you still take Brady? Why?

Interesting factoid: In Bradshaw's four Super Bowl games he attempted 84 passes. Brady, only played in three Super Bowls, yet he attempted 108 in those contests.While Bradshaw was a great QB, he played in a different era where passing was not the forefront that it is today. The fact that the Patriots won their SB's by passing much, much more than the Steelers did to win theirs places an additional emphasis on Brady's importance to the Patriot's post season success.

 

[psychobillies]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Yes, and we also think Trent Dilfer is better than Manning. If you don't see the difference, well, I'm sorry for you.

If you don't think Bradshaw is a better comparison than Dilfer I don't know what to tell you. Like I said before, please explain the difference. Try not to use a clever little one liner to ignore the point.If Brady is better simply b/c he is a "winner", or b/c he has won the big one three times, than why would you not agree that Bradshaw is better than both?

I think Bradshaw was one of the greatest QBs of all time? Not sure what your point is here. Bradshaw during the mid to late 70's made the throws when it counted most. I am sorry that I can't say the same thing for Manning. Look at his playoff stats....

I agree. We are definitely talking about three great QB's here. My point is that if Brady is better simply b/c of Superbowl's then Bradshaw is better than Marino, Elway, Favre, Young etc... I don't think that argument holds up.

 

[dagogrease]

Do all of the voters who take Brady due to the fact that he has won more Superbowls also think Terry Bradshaw is the greatest QB of all time. If not, please explain the difference.

Yes, and we also think Trent Dilfer is better than Manning. If you don't see the difference, well, I'm sorry for you.

If you don't think Bradshaw is a better comparison than Dilfer I don't know what to tell you. Like I said before, please explain the difference. Try not to use a clever little one liner to ignore the point.If Brady is better simply b/c he is a "winner", or b/c he has won the big one three times, than why would you not agree that Bradshaw is better than both?

I think Bradshaw was one of the greatest QBs of all time? Not sure what your point is here. Bradshaw during the mid to late 70's made the throws when it counted most. I am sorry that I can't say the same thing for Manning. Look at his playoff stats....

I agree. We are definitely talking about three great QB's here. My point is that if Brady is better simply b/c of Superbowl's then Bradshaw is better than Marino, Elway, Favre, Young etc... I don't think that argument holds up.

I agree...Manning is going to go down as one of the greatest QBs of all time, but if he never at least reaches the Super Bowl. I think Tom Brady will be up with Elway and Montana on the list while Manning will be where Marino and Moon are and that is not entirely his fault nor is it a bad thing.

 

[Sabertooth]

I agree with Longshot88. Brady is great, but I've never seen anything like what Peyton does. Nothing even close.

I also don't buy into that "He can't win the big game" BS. It takes a team to win the big game; not just the QB. Peyton has pulled the Colts out of so many games, but I've rarely ever seen his defense win him a game. Can't say the same for Brady.

Really, nothing even close? Because I remember Brett Favre throwing for 30+ touchdowns 5 seasons in a row and picking up three MVPs along the way, plus a Super Bowl. Manning has thrown more the 30 touchdowns exactly twice in his career. He's also had his failures in the playoffs, whereas Brady and Favre have taken their teams to the summit.Peyton right now < Favre in 1996.

 

[H.K.]

I agree with Longshot88. Brady is great, but I've never seen anything like what Peyton does. Nothing even close.

I also don't buy into that "He can't win the big game" BS. It takes a team to win the big game; not just the QB. Peyton has pulled the Colts out of so many games, but I've rarely ever seen his defense win him a game. Can't say the same for Brady.

Really, nothing even close? Because I remember Brett Favre throwing for 30+ touchdowns 5 seasons in a row and picking up three MVPs along the way, plus a Super Bowl. Manning has thrown more the 30 touchdowns exactly twice in his career. He's also had his failures in the playoffs, whereas Brady and Favre have taken their teams to the summit.Peyton right now < Favre in 1996.

People that never played don't understand the importance of the QB as a team leader. It's the intangible quality that makes everyone else believe in themselves, and the ability to win despite the obstacles. This is why the great ones are great, its is what makes them, and everyone else around them winners.

Championships are more important to QB's than any other position. QB's must lead teams to victories, regardless of how good their defense is or how much talent they have at their offensive skill positions....And you know what? At the pro-level, there is a pretty small difference between the All-Pros and starters. All of the guys in the NFL are the absolute best at what they do, but it takes someone special to make them do things to level of their ability.

Therefore QB's with great careers and championships will always be ranked ahead of QB's with great careers and no championships....and they should. Someone will ask about where QB's rank without great careers that won championships (like Dilfer, Hostetler, Rypien, etc.), and they should fall behind the guys that had long term great careers. This is not contradictory. Sustained greatness is better than momentary magic.

Therefore, these two topics can be forever laid to rest:

1) Favre will always be ahead of Marino.

2) Brady will always be ahead of Manning unless Peyton can win a Super Bowl.

 

[Longshot88]

If the Patriots had the first pick in the draft, I bet Bill Belichick would take Manning over Brady, even with what he knows now.

 

[Ron_Mexico]

The debate that never ends.

I'll take a Champion over a numbers guy

every day of the week.

This is the modern day discussion of

Montana and Marino. Montana got the rings,

while Marino set the records.

The NFL is all about one thing........ the RINGS.

Brady 3

Manning 0

 

[Chase Stuart]

Manning: 89.1 QB Rating in the post-season

Brady: 89.4 QB Rating in the post-season

 

[Chase Stuart]

The debate that never ends.I'll take a Champion over a numbers guy every day of the week.

So you would rather have Brad Johnson over Peyton Manning?

 

[valhallan]

Brady is the better quarterback, Manning is the better student.

 

[DawnBTVS]

Here are their regular season comparisons (incl. 2006 thus far)

Peyton: 142 Games. 64% completion rate. 37,099 yards with a 7.70 YPA. 270 TD vs. 139 INT (1.94 ratio).

Brady: 94 Games. 61.8% completion rate. 21,094 yards with a 7.0 YPA. 145 TD vs. 78 INT (1.86 ratio).

The argument that Manning has better statistics is a kind of 'duh' argument because Manning has played 48 more games (the equivalent of 3 seasons).

While Brady may not be on Peyton's "level" statistically, calling Brady the obvious choice solely because he's won 3 SB rings is kind of discrediting how good the guy has been throughout the regular season in his career.

I'd take Brady because not only has he done well in the playoffs, but he's also proven he can be just as capable in the regular season (albeit not putting up the "gaudy" stats that Manning does).

Brady himself has thrown for at least 3,600 yards (including 4,110 last year) for 4 straight seasons from 2002-2005 and has topped 26 TD (including 2 seasons of 28) 3 times in a 6 year career. He has an outside shot at reaching 26 again this season.

So for those who discredit Brady's regular season performance in comparison to Manning, maybe take a closer look at how efficient he's been.

If anybody can find the numbers, I'd be curious to see the number of comeback wins between the two as well in both the regular and post-season.

 

[Case Ace]

If the Patriots play the Colts in the playoffs, my $ will be on the Pats. They are a better overall team w/better coaching. That said, Peyton is the best individual QB in the league.

 

[dagogrease]

Manning: 89.1 QB Rating in the post-seasonBrady: 89.4 QB Rating in the post-season

Tom Brady Post-season records and statistics:NFL record for most consecutive wins in post season: 10 (broke record of Green Bay's Bart Starr). NFL record 10-1 in the post-season 367 passes attempted 225 passes completed 2493 passing yards 15 passing touchdowns 5 passes intercepted 73.7 passing attempts per interception in the post-season (lowest rate in NFL history, minimum 250 pass attempts): Bart Starr is second with 71 attempts per post-season interception) 2 Super Bowl MVP awards 3 Super Bowl victories Most completions in a Super Bowl (32 in Super Bowl XXXVIII)Peyton Manning Post-season statistics:322 passes attempted 193 passes completed 2,461 passing yards 15 passing touchdowns 8 passes intercepted 3-6 postseason record 40.3 passes attempted per interception

 

[Dancing Bear]

Brady is the better QB between the two.

QB is a lot of things; it's more than just statistics which is why Manning falls short.

QB is leading your team to victory when it counts; in January.

Otto Graham is the Best QB ever.

After him there is another tier with the likes of ...

Brady

Bradshaw

Montana

Starr

...

 

[H.K.]

The debate that never ends.I'll take a Champion over a numbers guy every day of the week.

So you would rather have Brad Johnson over Peyton Manning?

As I posted earlier:QB with great career + Championship > QB with great career + no championship > QB with decent career + championship > QB with decent careerVery simple.

 

[BGP]

If Belichick had coached the Colts instead of the Patriots this decade, then probably Manning has a few rings and Brady has none.

 

[cobalt_27]

I swear. There is NOTHING that moves the meter on these boards like a good ol' fashioned Brady v. Manning thread. What is this, like the 438th incarnation of this debate? Already 70+ posts? Simply amazing.

 

[H.K.]

I swear. There is NOTHING that moves the meter on these boards like a good ol' fashioned Brady v. Manning thread. What is this, like the 438th incarnation of this debate? Already 70+ posts? Simply amazing.

Favre vs. Marino is a close second....arguments are similar, too.

 

[rockbottom895]

Over the past few years, this debate has never really been settled in Football Guys. Who is the better QB? Is it Peyton Manning or Tom Brady. Their career stats clearly favor Peyton, but Brady always gets it done. In my opinion, come playoff time, there is no one other than Brady that I want on my team. The three wins that Brady has distinguishes him over Peyton. I hate to repeat this, but until Peyton gets that ring, he will never be looked at like Brady. What are your opinions?

if you watched the cincy game ..its very clear there is no one even close to Manning....if the NFL were redrafted today 99% of the owners/coaches would take Manning #1 overall if they had the chance

What are you talking about? You're saying no one would go for LT? Youre insane my friend!

 

[Longshot88]

60 Manning, 29 Brady......2 to 1 pretty clear......question ..Could Brady make the plays that manning does????Absolutly not....Brady is not as nearly as precise, not to mention prepared as Manning...Period....Brady Must have sold his soul....He was in the right place at the right time...That is it...He is a product of the system. ....Manning Is the Best Because KNOWONE LIVES AND BREATHS FOOTBALL AS HE DOES...I am a Colts Fan , a Big colts fan...and the post season losses hurt....But there is no way you can blame manning...NO WAY

 

[Ghost Rider]

60 Manning, 29 Brady......2 to 1 pretty clear......question ..Could Brady make the plays that manning does????Absolutly not....Brady is not as nearly as precise, not to mention prepared as Manning...Period....Brady Must have sold his soul....He was in the right place at the right time...That is it...He is a product of the system. ....Manning Is the Best Because KNOWONE LIVES AND BREATHS FOOTBALL AS HE DOES...I am a Colts Fan , a Big colts fan...and the post season losses hurt....But there is no way you can blame manning...NO WAY

 

[valhallan]

So you would rather have Brad Johnson over Peyton Manning?

I'm really tired of the Trent Dilfer/Brad Johnson thing.A guy that won one Super Bowl with one of the greatest defenses ever ≠ A guy that won three Super Bowls with average to above-average defenses. Once is an outlier, thrice is a trend.I'd expand further on this topic but it's really not worth it. If we start this poll again next week after a bad Manning game and a good Brady game, the voting will go the other way. The whole thing is an exercise in futility.

 

[djcolts]

If we start this poll again next week after a bad Manning game and a good Brady game, the voting will go the other way. The whole thing is an exercise in futility.

That is exactly correct.

 

[Snotbubbles]

Take a look at Brady's supporting cast in 2001 when they won the SB. Then consider the great supporting cast Manning has around him on offense. Brady is the better QB imo.

New England 2001 notable players:Teddy Bruschi, Ty Law, Willie McGinest, Lawyor Milloy, Richard Seymour, Troy BrownIndy 2001 notable players:Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James, Tarik Glenn, Jeff SaturdayTom Brady in the 2001 playoffs:2001 oak W,16-13 | 32 52 312 0 1 | 5 16 12001 pit W,24-17 | 12 18 115 0 0 | 2 3 02001 stl W,20-17 | 16 27 145 1 0 | 1 3 0Not sure why you would pick 2001 to show Brady was better than Manning. Besides, haven't you ever heard "offenses win games, defenses win championships." Do you really think that if you flip-flop NE's D with Indy's D that NE would have won the 2001 superbowl?

 

[PatsWillWin]

If we start this poll again next week after a bad Manning game and a good Brady game, the voting will go the other way. The whole thing is an exercise in futility.

That is exactly correct.

 

[radballs]

 

[JohnnyU]

I love this thread about as much as I do the "Who is the best RB of all time?", or the Who is the best QB of all time?", or who is......well, you get the idea.

 

[biggyd]

I agree with Longshot88. Brady is great, but I've never seen anything like what Peyton does. Nothing even close.

I also don't buy into that "He can't win the big game" BS. It takes a team to win the big game; not just the QB. Peyton has pulled the Colts out of so many games, but I've rarely ever seen his defense win him a game. Can't say the same for Brady.

Really, nothing even close? Because I remember Brett Favre throwing for 30+ touchdowns 5 seasons in a row and picking up three MVPs along the way, plus a Super Bowl. Manning has thrown more the 30 touchdowns exactly twice in his career. He's also had his failures in the playoffs, whereas Brady and Favre have taken their teams to the summit.Peyton right now < Favre in 1996.

People that never played don't understand the importance of the QB as a team leader. It's the intangible quality that makes everyone else believe in themselves, and the ability to win despite the obstacles. This is why the great ones are great, its is what makes them, and everyone else around them winners.

Championships are more important to QB's than any other position. QB's must lead teams to victories, regardless of how good their defense is or how much talent they have at their offensive skill positions....And you know what? At the pro-level, there is a pretty small difference between the All-Pros and starters. All of the guys in the NFL are the absolute best at what they do, but it takes someone special to make them do things to level of their ability.

Therefore QB's with great careers and championships will always be ranked ahead of QB's with great careers and no championships....and they should. Someone will ask about where QB's rank without great careers that won championships (like Dilfer, Hostetler, Rypien, etc.), and they should fall behind the guys that had long term great careers. This is not contradictory. Sustained greatness is better than momentary magic.

Therefore, these two topics can be forever laid to rest:

1) Favre will always be ahead of Marino.

2) Brady will always be ahead of Manning unless Peyton can win a Super Bowl.

If Peyton Manning was concerned about winning, then he would lower his salary cap number so team could acquire better defensive players. He could always do another commercial.

 

[valhallan]

How about an official Brady v. Manning thread? Merge all of the old ones and let whoever wants to add to the discussion start at page 45.