Bill Maher on Reverse Improvement (1 Viewer)

[rockaction]

I certainly don’t deserve this at all

Yeah you do. From the most cantankerous among us to the ones more willing to give a little and go with the flow, this board 's you, bb.

eta* sorry to embarrass you if this did, but Harry brought up a good point, IMO.

 

[rockaction]

Catalina Island.

Slightly risqué Descendents song and reasonably close to where I live. I'm not likely to get there, but I know people who have been and been often.

Can't tell me
What to do
Can't make me
Think I love you
Shoot it in your arm
You can't hurt me
I'm on my way
To Catalina

And you can't take my heart when I'm here
Long swim home
For your cute little arms
I'll steal some gas, fix my motor
Turn on my Beatles tape
And get you out of my head

Oh, heck, here's the song.

Catalina

Descendents · Milo Goes to College · Song · 2022

open.spotify.com

 

[Mr.Pack]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

 

[shuke]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

I don't know, man. It seems it was easier back then because the available information was finite.

 

[shuke]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

having to go to the public library for source material was the WORST

Dude, going to the library was awesome.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

having to go to the public library for source material was the WORST

Dude, going to the library was awesome.

My dumb arse choose Edgar Allen Poe for my senior English Lit project. That journey into darkness was only made worse by navigating the card catalog at the downtown greater Los Angeles library in 1985. I stand by my statement. It was the WORST.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Micro fiche.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

Interesting. Do you like the Draft Dominator Classic? We spend a significant amount of money every year to continue supporting the original draft tool for the exact reasons Maher talks about in we know some people do not like change and love the original drafting tool they (and we) started with.

And for our regular Draft Dominator tool, it's actually become simpler in the last few years.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

I don't know, man. It seems it was easier back then because the available information was finite.

I can see that. I still have a dusty old set of Encyolpedias and sometimes think about being a kid and that felt like the entire base of knowledge in my world.

 

[Da Guru]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

 

[bigbottom]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, this is part of what Bill Maher is talking about.

Also, I had a business lunch two days ago on Thursday and had to put in my cell number to get the text for purposes of calling my car from valet after the meal (there was no self parking available). Finished the meal, I clicked the link to let them know that I needed my car. Before I could call my car, I had to type in my first and last name. That was new. So now they have my personal cell number AND my first and last name. I fill that in (in hindsight I should have used a fake name) which gets me to the next screen, and then hit the button for them to bring up my car. After about five minutes, I went outside and my car wasn’t there. The valet guy hadn’t even gone to get it. I guess he was waiting for me to come outside first. So much for the one possible upside for using the online platform. I then had to pay $8 for the valet. That was a separate transaction outside the portal. After the guy went to get my car, I gave him $10 cash for the fee and a tip. (I would usually tip $5 if the parking was free).

So as mentioned upthread, this is obviously just a data harvesting exercise. There is zero need to ask for my first and last name to link to my cell number.

 

[ghostguy123]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

Easier access to things, sure, but easier???? No way.
Technology has had a direct impact on the deteriorating mental health of kids. The rates of depression and anxiety are quite significantly higher today than pre social media, smart phones.....

 

[Max Power]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

Easier access to things, sure, but easier???? No way.
Technology has had a direct impact on the deteriorating mental health of kids. The rates of depression and anxiety are quite significantly higher today than pre social media, smart phones.....

Sure, but thats sort of our fault as a society and as parents. We dont have to give them social media, we just sort of allow it...

There is a lot of good with the internet as well. The ability to learn about anything you want is right there for someone.

An example... when my oldest son was playing baseball, we were able to search for drills and watched videos that are basically free coaching. I never had that as a kid. I just had to go out there and figure it out myself or learn from whatever dad was willing to teach us.

I wouldn't trade my childhood for one today, but I'd say that if we had full high speed internet in the 80s, I think it would have been a net benefit to me.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

Also, I had a business lunch two days ago on Thursday and had to put in my cell number to get the text for purposes of calling my car from valet after the meal (there was no self parking available). Finished the meal, I clicked the link to let them know that I needed my car. Before I could call my car, I had to type in my first and last name. That was new. So now they have my personal cell number AND my first and last name. I fill that in (in hindsight I should have used a fake name) which gets me to the next screen, and then hit the button for them to bring up my car. After about five minutes, I went outside and my car wasn’t there. The valet guy hadn’t even gone to get it. I guess he was waiting for me to come outside first. So much for the one possible upside for using the online platform. I then had to pay $8 for the valet. That was a separate transaction outside the portal. After the guy went to get my car, I gave him $10 cash for the fee and a tip. (I would usually tip $5 if the parking was free).

This is one description of Hell on Earth for me.

 

[Uruk-Hai]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

That's right. And with breweries specifically, I like talking about beer with the owners (if one of them isn't tending bar, he/she is busing or hanging around).

 

[kevzilla]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

 

[ghostguy123]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

Easier access to things, sure, but easier???? No way.
Technology has had a direct impact on the deteriorating mental health of kids. The rates of depression and anxiety are quite significantly higher today than pre social media, smart phones.....

Sure, but thats sort of our fault as a society and as parents. We dont have to give them social media, we just sort of allow it...

There is a lot of good with the internet as well. The ability to learn about anything you want is right there for someone.

An example... when my oldest son was playing baseball, we were able to search for drills and watched videos that are basically free coaching. I never had that as a kid. I just had to go out there and figure it out myself or learn from whatever dad was willing to teach us.

I wouldn't trade my childhood for one today, but I'd say that if we had full high speed internet in the 80s, I think it would have been a net benefit to me.

As I said, access to things is better/easier.
Mental health and level of happiness is wayyyy worse, with a direct correlation to technology.

It is what it is

 

[TripItUp]

I think we're getting better at social media "management" but it's been a clumsy process and there's a long way to go.

 

[bigbottom]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

 

[Mr.Pack]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

Interesting. Do you like the Draft Dominator Classic? We spend a significant amount of money every year to continue supporting the original draft tool for the exact reasons Maher talks about in we know some people do not like change and love the original drafting tool they (and we) started with.

And for our regular Draft Dominator tool, it's actually become simpler in the last few years.

I use DD Classic. I’ve tried messing with the new and improved DD but it’s just too much to wade through.

 

[Mr.Pack]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

He’s disliked by both sides, I like that and even though I disagree with him a lot he’s normally spot on with the issues.

 

[TripItUp]

Bill Maher is one of the few shows that presents both viewpoints...the expression isn't equal unfortunately but at least there are differing viewpoints expressed which IMHO is sorely needed in today's political climate. My wife and I record it every week and watch. In a perfect world this show would drop the comedy and have both sides equally represented, I'm surprised this idea hasn't been acted on, but I patiently wait for it.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

Interesting. Do you like the Draft Dominator Classic? We spend a significant amount of money every year to continue supporting the original draft tool for the exact reasons Maher talks about in we know some people do not like change and love the original drafting tool they (and we) started with.

And for our regular Draft Dominator tool, it's actually become simpler in the last few years.

I use DD Classic. I’ve tried messing with the new and improved DD but it’s just too much to wade through.

Thanks. I'm glad we're able to provide you with a drafting tool that works for you with the Draft Dominator Classic.

The new Draft Dominator has more features. We've continued to streamline them, and last year, we consolidated some things to make them easier to use. I'd love for you to give it another try.

But if it doesn't fit what you like, you can still have the Draft Dominator Classic that you know.

I don't mean to be defensive but I was a little surprised to see this in the Maher thread. We spend a significant amount of money and effort (maintaining two systems is a lot of extra work for our tech side) so people DON'T have the experience Maher was talking about with new things changed just for the same of change.

 

[MAC_32]

I think kids today have it easier thanks to the amount of information at their fingertips. When my parents purchased a set of encyclopedias in the 80s, it was a game changer for me.

Easier access to things, sure, but easier???? No way.
Technology has had a direct impact on the deteriorating mental health of kids. The rates of depression and anxiety are quite significantly higher today than pre social media, smart phones.....

Sure, but thats sort of our fault as a society and as parents.

100%, but kids aren't to blame for that, adults are. In part because of the decision making of adults, kids have it harder now vs prior generations, and it's only getting worse.

I didn't respond to the anecdotal examples shared earlier because we're noticing the same with our kids and our friends kids. Unfortunately, we're not normal.

 

[MAC_32]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

There's a joint a block from my office that seems to both optimize ops while also being hospitable. They have 2 PoS systems to take orders and are liberal with offering tasters. Once you've made your selection, they'll open your tab, you take your beer with you, and if you ordered food, a buzzer too. Food's prepped on the other side of the room and when it buzzes, go snag your grub then bring it back to the table. No matter how busy it is, it's uncommon for there to be much of a bottleneck at the PoS so refills are a non-issue.

Efficient, but with a human touch.

 

[Joe Bryant]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

There's a joint a block from my office that seems to both optimize ops while also being hospitable. They have 2 PoS systems to take orders and are liberal with offering tasters. Once you've made your selection, they'll open your tab, you take your beer with you, and if you ordered food, a buzzer too. Food's prepped on the other side of the room and when it buzzes, go snag your grub then bring it back to the table. No matter how busy it is, it's uncommon for there to be much of a bottleneck at the PoS so refills are a non-issue.

Efficient, but with a human touch.

Yes. I think that kind of finding the sweet spot is where the smarter places will go.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

Interesting. Do you like the Draft Dominator Classic? We spend a significant amount of money every year to continue supporting the original draft tool for the exact reasons Maher talks about in we know some people do not like change and love the original drafting tool they (and we) started with.

And for our regular Draft Dominator tool, it's actually become simpler in the last few years.

I use DD Classic. I’ve tried messing with the new and improved DD but it’s just too much to wade through.

Same

 

[Joe Bryant]

This one got a ton of likes.

x.com

x.com

I don’t want to connect my coffee machine to the wifi network. I don’t want to share the file with OneDrive. I don’t want to download an app to check my car’s fluid levels. I don’t want to scan a QR code to view the restaurant menu. I don’t want to let Google know my location before showing me the search results. I don’t want to include a Teams link on the calendar invite. I don’t want to pay 50 different monthly subscription fees for all my software. I don’t want to upgrade to TurboTax platinum plus audit protection. I don’t want to install the Webex plugin to join the meeting. I don’t want to share my car’s braking data with the actuaries at State Farm. I don’t want to text with your AI chatbot. I don’t want to download the Instagram app to look at your picture. I don’t want to type in my email address to view the content on your company’s website. I don’t want text messages with promo codes. I don’t want to leave your company a five-star Google review in exchange for the chance to win a $20 Starbucks gift card. I don’t want to join your exclusive community in the metaverse. I don’t want AI to help me write my comments on LinkedIn. I don’t even want to be on LinkedIn in the first place.

I just want to pay for a product one time (and only one time), know that it’s going to work flawlessly, press 0 to speak to an operator if I need help, and otherwise be left alone and treated with some small measure of human dignity, if that’s not too much to ask anymore.

Then he followed up with:

Can’t believe I typed that entire rant and forgot to mention I don’t want to leave a 25% tip on the touchscreen.

This is 1000% the way I feel about Draft Dominator. WAYYYY too much unneeded “improvement “ I’ll keep paying but I absolutely HATE the “new and improved“ Not to mention WAY over techied DD.
/end rant

Standing ovation to Bill Maher.

Interesting. Do you like the Draft Dominator Classic? We spend a significant amount of money every year to continue supporting the original draft tool for the exact reasons Maher talks about in we know some people do not like change and love the original drafting tool they (and we) started with.

And for our regular Draft Dominator tool, it's actually become simpler in the last few years.

I use DD Classic. I’ve tried messing with the new and improved DD but it’s just too much to wade through.

Same

Thanks. I'm glad the Draft Dominator Classic works for you.

We should have a focus group on the Drafting Tools. I may try to do that in another spot. Would be good to see and hear the specifics of exactly what people are seeing.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

Agreed. Seems like he's more popular now than ever.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Reverse Improvement

Have to say that I agree with a bunch of these examples.

I listen to Maher a lot and agree with him more often than not, but this just came off as very get off my lawn or back in my day. I don't agree with him.

Agree. And it’s consistent with most “back in my day” stories in that reality is back in your day sucked. When Maher was a kid, he got what, 3 games a week on his 27” standard def screen?

Now he can watch youth games from almost anywhere in the world. My Dad in southern Virginia watches my kids play live youth sports games in San Diego in higher definition through the Gamechanger app than Maher watched the NFL 30 years ago.

It is one of those things where we should always try to be better and strive for perfection, but we should be happy with the gains we have made. I think that is what bugs me about the back in my day talk.

Hold up - Maher was very very VERY specific in his criticism. He wasn't suggesting everything was better "back in the day". Did you watch the same clip I did?

I agree with the sentiment that old folks like me can pine for yesteryear but this isn't that, IMO. He's on point with this one.

That is fair, we are getting away from his point. I just don't think it is that big of a deal and believe the streaming will improve or fail and be replaced by something better. We are just in the trial and error stage.

He had a number of examples in his spot, only one of which was streaming (though it was the one he spoke first and longest about). The one that resonated with me is valet. Why on earth do I have to give my cell number to 37 different people all over town and navigate umpteen different web platforms on my phone just so they can bring my car around? Why can’t I just hand them my ticket?

Better yet, why can’t I park my own car?

 

[Terminalxylem]

I think my favorite example was when Domino's started advertising their app. That you could use to order Domino's pizza. From your phone.

Just had this discussion with a couple friends a week ago. All of us in our mid-50s. "Don't you have the Casey's/McDonalds/Pizza Hut/etc. app?"

No. I don't. I don't want to have an app for every freakin' place I visit. Yes, I may be missing out on a free cheeseburger every month. I think I'll be ok. I try to keep as much crap as I can off my phone. It is already too cluttered with stuff I actually use. Yes, get off my lawn!

My rule is 1 page for apps, max. If I need to add something new, something else gets deleted.*

*Some seldom used apps may remain in storage, but no icon remains to clutter the screen.

 

[Da Guru]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

Downside it we saw this older couple walk in and sit down by us. They were waiting and waiting and finally they were explained how to order and pay. After 10 minutes of trying to figure things out they just got up and left. I know they were not their target audience but as an owner I would hate to see paying customers leave frustrated and not buying anything.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Reverse Improvement

Have to say that I agree with a bunch of these examples.

I listen to Maher a lot and agree with him more often than not, but this just came off as very get off my lawn or back in my day. I don't agree with him.

Agree. And it’s consistent with most “back in my day” stories in that reality is back in your day sucked. When Maher was a kid, he got what, 3 games a week on his 27” standard def screen?

Now he can watch youth games from almost anywhere in the world. My Dad in southern Virginia watches my kids play live youth sports games in San Diego in higher definition through the Gamechanger app than Maher watched the NFL 30 years ago.

It is one of those things where we should always try to be better and strive for perfection, but we should be happy with the gains we have made. I think that is what bugs me about the back in my day talk.

Hold up - Maher was very very VERY specific in his criticism. He wasn't suggesting everything was better "back in the day". Did you watch the same clip I did?

I agree with the sentiment that old folks like me can pine for yesteryear but this isn't that, IMO. He's on point with this one.

That is fair, we are getting away from his point. I just don't think it is that big of a deal and believe the streaming will improve or fail and be replaced by something better. We are just in the trial and error stage.

He had a number of examples in his spot, only one of which was streaming (though it was the one he spoke first and longest about). The one that resonated with me is valet. Why on earth do I have to give my cell number to 37 different people all over town and navigate umpteen different web platforms on my phone just so they can bring my car around? Why can’t I just hand them my ticket?

I thought the idea was that was how you tip them. Now I hate having to pay someone to park my car when I'd rather just do it myself so maybe this is a way to not be in person shamed into tippping for something you don't even want.

Oh no. This is just to have your car brought around. The valets still expect a cash tip.

He does say "send the money electronically to the valet".

That’s not how it works in my city. It’s only to bring my car around. I still am expected to tip the valet driver with cash. It would actually be worse if I had to manually input my credit card information into a web platform for a $5 tip every time I went to dinner at a nice restaurant.

Did you have to create an account like Bill did and why? I wouldn't mind the payment if I was already on some website since you're just choosing from cards stored in your browser. I'm kinda surprised they don't have that option since less and less people carry cash these days.

The way it’s worked for me is that instead of giving you a ticket, they ask for your cell number. I don’t like giving my cell number out unnecessarily so that is strike one. So I have to stand there and recite my number while they punch it into some handheld device. They read the number back to me. 50% of the time they get it wrong, so I have to continue to stand there while I repeat my number and they type it in.

Once that is done, I receive a text. So now yet another online system has my cell number, in addition to the valet guy.

When I am ready to leave after dinner, I pull out my phone, go to the text and click the link. The link takes me to a web portal of some sort. Once in the portal, I have to hunt around to find the button or link to let them know I am ready. Sometimes I have to hit a couple different buttons to confirm. Once I do that, a message is sent to the valet to get my car.

For me, that’s a bunch of unnecessary work when I could just hand the valet my ticket. And I wouldn’t have to give out my cell number. It does arguably save a couple minutes because I can signal the valet from my table rather than waiting at the valet stand, but in my experience this approach generally creates way more confusion at the stand because the valets pull up cars for people who haven’t come out yet and things get backed up. If everyone is there waiting for their car, which is what happens with the paper ticket approach, the cars leave as soon as they are pulled up.

And yes, it’s expected that I still tip the valet with cash as in my experience there is no payment platform on the portal.

What would happen if you didn’t bring your phone to dinner?

 

[jhib]

I do like Apps for paying for parking

I have mixed feelings on this. I like it for parking in my own town, although not as much when I'm only parking for a short time and the app/convenience fee is as much as the actual timed parking cost.
But then for travel, it sucks when the city is using yet another different parking app than the ones you already have, and you have to take the time to download, add your payment method info, etc just to park on a street for a little while. I think I have 5 different parking apps on my phone right now, and have probably used and then eventually deleted a few more on top of that.

 

[NutterButter]

I do like Apps for paying for parking

I have mixed feelings on this. I like it for parking in my own town, although not as much when I'm only parking for a short time and the app/convenience fee is as much as the parking actual timed parking cost.
But then for travel, it sucks when the city is using yet another different parking app than the ones you already have, and you have to take the time to download, add your payment method info, etc just to park on a street for a little while. I think I have 5 different parking apps on my phone right now, and have probably used and then eventually deleted a few more on top of that.

For me this goes back to why does everything have to be an app. Just put a qr code on the sign. I go to the website, put in my license plate pick a card thats stored in my browser and viola i'm done.

 

[jhib]

I think my favorite example was when Domino's started advertising their app. That you could use to order Domino's pizza. From your phone.

Just had this discussion with a couple friends a week ago. All of us in our mid-50s. "Don't you have the Casey's/McDonalds/Pizza Hut/etc. app?"

No. I don't. I don't want to have an app for every freakin' place I visit. Yes, I may be missing out on a free cheeseburger every month. I think I'll be ok. I try to keep as much crap as I can off my phone. It is already too cluttered with stuff I actually use. Yes, get off my lawn!

They don't give anything anyway. I downloaded them all thinking they were going to be burying me in free food. Nothing.

I use the McDonald's one all the time. My wife and I like their unsweetened iced tea, and go through the drive thru a few times per week. We don't order ahead, since we don't exactly plan it beforehand, but it's nice just giving the 4 digit code when we order in line to earn points and pay through the app, then just go to the 2nd window to grab the drinks.

We could get free fries with our drink on any day without using points (if we were interested in the fries), I can get a $0.99 large hot or iced coffee when I'm in the mood for that instead of the iced tea, and the points are pretty easy to earn and use for random free stuff.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Interesting. I will have to re-look at stats. I thought I've always seen that females were much higher in these stats, but we could be looking at slightly different stats? (attempt vs. completed?)

The biggest factor is the method employed in attempted suicide…males use guns.

 

[bigbottom]

Reverse Improvement

Have to say that I agree with a bunch of these examples.

I listen to Maher a lot and agree with him more often than not, but this just came off as very get off my lawn or back in my day. I don't agree with him.

Agree. And it’s consistent with most “back in my day” stories in that reality is back in your day sucked. When Maher was a kid, he got what, 3 games a week on his 27” standard def screen?

Now he can watch youth games from almost anywhere in the world. My Dad in southern Virginia watches my kids play live youth sports games in San Diego in higher definition through the Gamechanger app than Maher watched the NFL 30 years ago.

It is one of those things where we should always try to be better and strive for perfection, but we should be happy with the gains we have made. I think that is what bugs me about the back in my day talk.

Hold up - Maher was very very VERY specific in his criticism. He wasn't suggesting everything was better "back in the day". Did you watch the same clip I did?

I agree with the sentiment that old folks like me can pine for yesteryear but this isn't that, IMO. He's on point with this one.

That is fair, we are getting away from his point. I just don't think it is that big of a deal and believe the streaming will improve or fail and be replaced by something better. We are just in the trial and error stage.

He had a number of examples in his spot, only one of which was streaming (though it was the one he spoke first and longest about). The one that resonated with me is valet. Why on earth do I have to give my cell number to 37 different people all over town and navigate umpteen different web platforms on my phone just so they can bring my car around? Why can’t I just hand them my ticket?

I thought the idea was that was how you tip them. Now I hate having to pay someone to park my car when I'd rather just do it myself so maybe this is a way to not be in person shamed into tippping for something you don't even want.

Oh no. This is just to have your car brought around. The valets still expect a cash tip.

He does say "send the money electronically to the valet".

That’s not how it works in my city. It’s only to bring my car around. I still am expected to tip the valet driver with cash. It would actually be worse if I had to manually input my credit card information into a web platform for a $5 tip every time I went to dinner at a nice restaurant.

Did you have to create an account like Bill did and why? I wouldn't mind the payment if I was already on some website since you're just choosing from cards stored in your browser. I'm kinda surprised they don't have that option since less and less people carry cash these days.

The way it’s worked for me is that instead of giving you a ticket, they ask for your cell number. I don’t like giving my cell number out unnecessarily so that is strike one. So I have to stand there and recite my number while they punch it into some handheld device. They read the number back to me. 50% of the time they get it wrong, so I have to continue to stand there while I repeat my number and they type it in.

Once that is done, I receive a text. So now yet another online system has my cell number, in addition to the valet guy.

When I am ready to leave after dinner, I pull out my phone, go to the text and click the link. The link takes me to a web portal of some sort. Once in the portal, I have to hunt around to find the button or link to let them know I am ready. Sometimes I have to hit a couple different buttons to confirm. Once I do that, a message is sent to the valet to get my car.

For me, that’s a bunch of unnecessary work when I could just hand the valet my ticket. And I wouldn’t have to give out my cell number. It does arguably save a couple minutes because I can signal the valet from my table rather than waiting at the valet stand, but in my experience this approach generally creates way more confusion at the stand because the valets pull up cars for people who haven’t come out yet and things get backed up. If everyone is there waiting for their car, which is what happens with the paper ticket approach, the cars leave as soon as they are pulled up.

And yes, it’s expected that I still tip the valet with cash as in my experience there is no payment platform on the portal.

What would happen if you didn’t bring your phone to dinner?

I need to try that next time. My guess is that they’d have to give me a ticket of some sort (which is my preference anyway), or set my key to the side at the valet stand.

 

[BassNBrew]

Sure, but much of that is because the "innovations" are now designed to keep us on our phones and their sites as long as possible, to sell more crap, not to make our lives easier and more efficient. Which is what he is complaining about.

It takes intentional effort, but us humans have the ability to act counter to our corporate overlords goals.

I agree. Individually it's still hard, but doable. However, society wide it would be almost impossible at this point. Mostly because as we see in this thread, there is nowhere near a consensus on what the tech and apps are doing to us or what the intent of these companies are.

What else has changed? Pressure to perform at school, school shootings, identity issues.

I disagree that is problem is mostly because of social media.

All us had pressure to perform at school, that is lumped into stress and lack of sleep for me. School shootings, maybe here, but this phenomenon is also not isolated to our country like school shootings are, so I am not convinced by that. I am not 100% sure what you mean by that last one, but much of that is fostered online on social media and I revert back to my first point about school shootings - you can see these same spikes around the world in places that don't have the same social issues that we are talking about.

I don't know yout age, but the pressure to perform in school is much higher now than when I was in school.

50 this year. I am going to mostly agree with you here, and partially agree with @BassNBrew above. The cutoff to get into college is higher, 100%. I went to UW-Madison in '93 and 0% change I would get in now. I think I had around a 3.5, I fell asleep during the reading portion of the ACT and I think got a 24-25 on that, and I was 2 sports for extras as a Senior. Where I agree with you is that the GPA and test scores are a bit higher now. However, I believe it is a bit easier on average to get those high grades as well. My kid graduated early and at my job I work with a lot of high schoolers. I have witnessed at my son's school and a lot of them talk about how there's no penalty for turning things in late, they get multiple retakes on tests, they get a ton of extra credit oppurtunities, etc. I don't think graduating with a 3.9 means as much as it did a few decades ago. That's where I agree with BnB's sentiment. Where I am back to really agreeing with you is that since now everybody has very similar GPAs and test scores now the way to stand out is to be in a ton of extras, and I am sure that is a big cause of stress and lack of sleep. All anecdotal, and I love to hear other people's experiences if they differ vastly.

All that said, I keep going back to the stats and that graph I linked. There is a 3-4X increase on average in those stats within a decade (or more depending the stat and demographic you are looking at. And that starts about 2007/2008) I am open to other theories, but do you think that school and work is 3x more stressful than in 2000 or when I graduated? We got through wars and Columbine and 9/11 without seeing that. I can't think of any changes in schooling or admissions process for college that could account for that huge spike.

I keep coming back to the combo of internet + phones in our pocket. It makes bullying easy and seemingly inescapable (increase in depression and suicide). The apps and sites are designed to hold your attention for as long as possible interacting with devices instead of humans around us (increase in loneliness and isolation). So much so that for many their phones are constantly buzzing (increase in anxiety) What attracts our attention is usually negative things, so too often that is what keeps us engaged the longest, which often leads to hatred, divisiveness, and thinking things are scarier than they statistically are. (again increasing isolation and axiety). To me it makes the most sense of what is behind a huge portion of that severe increase we see in these negative social factors.

I get that I am also a tech grump, so I also fail to see the pluses that have happened because this tech in our pocket that would offset all the negative I see.

I agree with some of your points, but overall it is more difficult. People see the higher grades and compare them with previous generations. That is like comparing millionaires in the 50's to millionaires now.

The other thing is efficiency, with things online and the resources we have now things don't take as long. Kids now are taking higher level courses at a much younger age. High schoolers are graduating with enough credits to have an associates degree, or halfway to journey mans card in the trades and the competition to get into a college or certain programs in a college has never been higher. Plus add in the sports that are no longer by season or even just the weekdays. They are year round and on the weekends.

Could you explain what you mean by the bolded? Is your position that you think a 3.9 is much harder to achieve now vs decades ago, and so much so that it accounts for most of that rise in stress/depression/isolation reported?

You said you are in education - is there something I am not thinking about that happened in the 00s that you could point to that would explain that fast spike in those types of feelings reported? Change in policy, testing, admissions requirements, etc..

In the 50's being a millionaire meant you were rich, like really rich. Now it means you are comfortable, but billionaires are really rich.

Graduating with a 3.9 meant you did really well school, 20ish years ago. Now 4.2 + is that number. 3.9 is still good.

There are a ton of factors other than social media. I will name a few. Social acceptance, people used to keep more quiet about being depressed. Resources, it is easier to get help. Using it as a crutch to get attention or sympathy. Obviously this a small sample size, but in the 10 years I was in the classroom I had less than five students come to me for help with depression. In the last 10 years I have seen 100's of students/parents ask for help. I can't prove it, but I would bet more than half of them are using that as an excuse to get sympathy/forgiveness for their bad behavior or grades. Covid also did a number on kids.

LOL...WTF is a 4.2. Back in the day you have to be perfect to get a 4.0. Competition to get an A in Calculus was brutal. Classes weren't weighted so you worked your butt off in Honors/AP classes otherwise karen in Home Ec was going to eat your scholarship lunch.

What are you even talking about. None of that is true. A kid with a 4.0 taking shop, home economics, and four years of gym wasn't taking an academic scholarship from someone with a 3.5 with all AP classes. That is just ridiculous.

Grade points can go up as high as 5.0. Look up IB, this is an extremely difficult program, much harder than AP and accelerated. It is weighted higher because getting an A in an IB course is tough.

They were in Missouri where every kid in the top 1% regardless of classes taken was offered a full ride to an in state school. The difference between finishing 7th and 8th in your class was huge.

 

[msudaisy26]

Sure, but much of that is because the "innovations" are now designed to keep us on our phones and their sites as long as possible, to sell more crap, not to make our lives easier and more efficient. Which is what he is complaining about.

It takes intentional effort, but us humans have the ability to act counter to our corporate overlords goals.

I agree. Individually it's still hard, but doable. However, society wide it would be almost impossible at this point. Mostly because as we see in this thread, there is nowhere near a consensus on what the tech and apps are doing to us or what the intent of these companies are.

What else has changed? Pressure to perform at school, school shootings, identity issues.

I disagree that is problem is mostly because of social media.

All us had pressure to perform at school, that is lumped into stress and lack of sleep for me. School shootings, maybe here, but this phenomenon is also not isolated to our country like school shootings are, so I am not convinced by that. I am not 100% sure what you mean by that last one, but much of that is fostered online on social media and I revert back to my first point about school shootings - you can see these same spikes around the world in places that don't have the same social issues that we are talking about.

I don't know yout age, but the pressure to perform in school is much higher now than when I was in school.

50 this year. I am going to mostly agree with you here, and partially agree with @BassNBrew above. The cutoff to get into college is higher, 100%. I went to UW-Madison in '93 and 0% change I would get in now. I think I had around a 3.5, I fell asleep during the reading portion of the ACT and I think got a 24-25 on that, and I was 2 sports for extras as a Senior. Where I agree with you is that the GPA and test scores are a bit higher now. However, I believe it is a bit easier on average to get those high grades as well. My kid graduated early and at my job I work with a lot of high schoolers. I have witnessed at my son's school and a lot of them talk about how there's no penalty for turning things in late, they get multiple retakes on tests, they get a ton of extra credit oppurtunities, etc. I don't think graduating with a 3.9 means as much as it did a few decades ago. That's where I agree with BnB's sentiment. Where I am back to really agreeing with you is that since now everybody has very similar GPAs and test scores now the way to stand out is to be in a ton of extras, and I am sure that is a big cause of stress and lack of sleep. All anecdotal, and I love to hear other people's experiences if they differ vastly.

All that said, I keep going back to the stats and that graph I linked. There is a 3-4X increase on average in those stats within a decade (or more depending the stat and demographic you are looking at. And that starts about 2007/2008) I am open to other theories, but do you think that school and work is 3x more stressful than in 2000 or when I graduated? We got through wars and Columbine and 9/11 without seeing that. I can't think of any changes in schooling or admissions process for college that could account for that huge spike.

I keep coming back to the combo of internet + phones in our pocket. It makes bullying easy and seemingly inescapable (increase in depression and suicide). The apps and sites are designed to hold your attention for as long as possible interacting with devices instead of humans around us (increase in loneliness and isolation). So much so that for many their phones are constantly buzzing (increase in anxiety) What attracts our attention is usually negative things, so too often that is what keeps us engaged the longest, which often leads to hatred, divisiveness, and thinking things are scarier than they statistically are. (again increasing isolation and axiety). To me it makes the most sense of what is behind a huge portion of that severe increase we see in these negative social factors.

I get that I am also a tech grump, so I also fail to see the pluses that have happened because this tech in our pocket that would offset all the negative I see.

I agree with some of your points, but overall it is more difficult. People see the higher grades and compare them with previous generations. That is like comparing millionaires in the 50's to millionaires now.

The other thing is efficiency, with things online and the resources we have now things don't take as long. Kids now are taking higher level courses at a much younger age. High schoolers are graduating with enough credits to have an associates degree, or halfway to journey mans card in the trades and the competition to get into a college or certain programs in a college has never been higher. Plus add in the sports that are no longer by season or even just the weekdays. They are year round and on the weekends.

Could you explain what you mean by the bolded? Is your position that you think a 3.9 is much harder to achieve now vs decades ago, and so much so that it accounts for most of that rise in stress/depression/isolation reported?

You said you are in education - is there something I am not thinking about that happened in the 00s that you could point to that would explain that fast spike in those types of feelings reported? Change in policy, testing, admissions requirements, etc..

In the 50's being a millionaire meant you were rich, like really rich. Now it means you are comfortable, but billionaires are really rich.

Graduating with a 3.9 meant you did really well school, 20ish years ago. Now 4.2 + is that number. 3.9 is still good.

There are a ton of factors other than social media. I will name a few. Social acceptance, people used to keep more quiet about being depressed. Resources, it is easier to get help. Using it as a crutch to get attention or sympathy. Obviously this a small sample size, but in the 10 years I was in the classroom I had less than five students come to me for help with depression. In the last 10 years I have seen 100's of students/parents ask for help. I can't prove it, but I would bet more than half of them are using that as an excuse to get sympathy/forgiveness for their bad behavior or grades. Covid also did a number on kids.

LOL...WTF is a 4.2. Back in the day you have to be perfect to get a 4.0. Competition to get an A in Calculus was brutal. Classes weren't weighted so you worked your butt off in Honors/AP classes otherwise karen in Home Ec was going to eat your scholarship lunch.

What are you even talking about. None of that is true. A kid with a 4.0 taking shop, home economics, and four years of gym wasn't taking an academic scholarship from someone with a 3.5 with all AP classes. That is just ridiculous.

Grade points can go up as high as 5.0. Look up IB, this is an extremely difficult program, much harder than AP and accelerated. It is weighted higher because getting an A in an IB course is tough.

They were in Missouri where every kid in the top 1% regardless of classes taken was offered a full ride to an in state school. The difference between finishing 7th and 8th in your class was huge.

That is a government program, not a scholarship. They are different things.

 

[fatness]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

I think @kevzilla is talking about how good he is at performing, while you are talking how popular he is. 2 very different things.

It's not unusual for someone to get more popular as the quality of their performances declines. Personally I don't care at all about how popular someone is. I care how well they perform.

 

[rockaction]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

I think @kevzilla is talking about how good he is at performing, while you are talking how popular he is. 2 very different things.

It's not unusual for someone to get more popular as the quality of their performances declines. Personally I don't care at all about how popular someone is. I care how well they perform.

Considering that “into oblivion” means (generally) going into a state of being forgotten or unacknowledged, it would seem popularity has a lot to say about it.

 

[rockaction]

From Merriam-Webster, about usage:

Oblivion asks forgetfulness of us in both its meaning and etymology. The word’s Latin source, oblīvīscī, means “to forget; to put out of mind,” and since its 14th century adoption into English, oblivion has hewed close to meanings having to do with forgetting. The word has also long had an association with the River Lethe, which according to Greek myth flowed through the Underworld and caused anyone who drank its water to forget their past; 17th century poet John Milton wrote about “Lethe the River of Oblivion” in Paradise Lost.

 

[bigbottom]

Well...if anyone is an expert at reverse improvement, it's Bill Maher. Dude peaked at Hef's in the mid-90s and it's been a slow glide into oblivion ever since.

I don’t know. Currently the #1 most popular show on HBO and just got picked up by CNN. I wouldn’t say he’s anywhere close to oblivion yet.

Link 1

Link 2

I think @kevzilla is talking about how good he is at performing, while you are talking how popular he is. 2 very different things.

It's not unusual for someone to get more popular as the quality of their performances declines. Personally I don't care at all about how popular someone is. I care how well they perform.

Well, I enjoy his current show and his “performance” but I understand that others may disagree (he’s certainly a pompous *** and not likeable as a person, but I think he’s been pretty consistent on that front throughout his career). In any event, my response was to the assertion that he was on a slow glide into oblivion, which doesn’t seem to be the case given his ratings. But you may be right that @kevzilla was referring to the quality of his content/delivery and he meant “oblivion” differently.

Edit: What @rockaction said.

 

[Ilov80s]

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

One thing I like and dislike is less interaction with humans.

There is a brewery in downtown Detroit that my wife and I went to last summer. First time there we sat down and nobody came to our table. We were outside and they had picnic tables. After about 10 minutes I see a guy running beers to the table next to us and ask if he is our server. Said "We really don`t have servers, you have download the menu and then order through the app. So we did and there was a couple beers I was not sure about but there was nobody to ask or explain anything.

We ordered though the app. Only got a couple beers and spring rolls that was delivered by a guy who said nothing, just dropped it off. To pay you had to sign up and register to another site. Our bill was 40 bucks that came through the app, then it asked about a 18-20-25-30% tip.

Tip for what? We never talked or interacted with anyone, one guy came and dropped off our beer without saying a word..thats it.

That is fine with me but don`t expect a 20-25% tip.

Yeah, I'm not going to places that do this. I realize that world is heading that way, but I'm not. I'll find somewhere that doesn't work this way, or I just won't go out.

Brewery near by did the same thing.

I fully understand it optimizes their business by removing servers and replacing them with "runners". But it sucks.

Part of the reason you go out for a beer vs buying sometimes the exact same beer and having it at home for a fraction of the price is the interaction with the business and the experience of hospitality and being a "guest". Not just a revenue stream.

Downside it we saw this older couple walk in and sit down by us. They were waiting and waiting and finally they were explained how to order and pay. After 10 minutes of trying to figure things out they just got up and left. I know they were not their target audience but as an owner I would hate to see paying customers leave frustrated and not buying anything.

I am pretty sure I know the place you are talking about and they just announced they are closing.

 

[kevzilla]

Didn't mean to start a whole thing, lol. We all get a little more "get off my lawn" as we age, but over the last few years, Bill seems to be speed-running his crusty old codger era. That's all.

 

[bigbottom]

Didn't mean to start a whole thing, lol. We all get a little more "get off my lawn" as we age, but over the last few years, Bill seems to be speed-running his crusty old codger era. That's all.

Oh, no doubt!

 

[Ilov80s]

Didn't mean to start a whole thing, lol. We all get a little more "get off my lawn" as we age, but over the last few years, Bill seems to be speed-running his crusty old codger era. That's all.

It has become his brand.